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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: bettylou on April 16, 2010, 10:43:04 PM

Title: more of my side....
Post by: bettylou on April 16, 2010, 10:43:04 PM
I asked daughter in law if she would like to come to the Coach store with my daughter and I.  I would treat each of us to a bag and then lunch.  I offered to drive but daughter in law said it would not work she would meet us there.  She was half an hour late, and talked on the phone the entire time.  She had no interest in talking to either one of us.  When she did finally get off the phone and chose the biggest most expensive bag  to the register she told my daughter how she never gets out and is always stuck at home with my grandson because she can never get a babysitter.  She knew that was a sensitive topic with my daughter and she had to go there.  She did tell us how her mother was watching him that day and taking him to the zoo for the first time.  She loves to tell us what her family is doing with him.  She always has a huge smirk when she tells us he is with her mother doing all kinds of fun things.  We felt really low because of her.  My daughter did ask when she might be able to come over and hang out with her and son and baby and daughter in law rolled her eyes and said "we'll have to see about that one!"  It was as if my daughter had asked her to put her through college or something. She then told me she was not going to lunch with us because she was driving across town to get her nails done "oh well maybe next time."
I do not know why she is so mean to my daughter!  Once we asked her and son to come see daughter get an award from the group she belongs to for the gifted, daughter in law said out loud, "if she is so gifted whey is not enrolled at X school for the gifted in our town"  I was shocked but explained to her that it was too much money for us and she laughed and said "if she was truely gifted and talented she could go there for free."  This is what we deal with everytime we see her.  She never brings grandson and she spends the time slamming me and my daughter and then has my son call us to complain about our "rudeness"  or things that hurt her.  When I once asked son if he thought all thienegative towards daughter would damage her, he told his wife.  She told him I was damagaing everyone in my life and how dare I accuse them of something like that.  I must be so manipulative and cruel.
Why does she hate my daughter so much?
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: Hope on April 16, 2010, 11:04:41 PM
Bettylou, I'm feeling your pain.  My dil is not nice to my ydd.  She's not even all that nice to my odd who is her same age.  It's not as bad as your situation, but bad enough that my ydd sobbed her heart out after dil/ds left our house following ydd's birthday celebration.  Dil ignored ydd all night and would not answer her when spoken to.  Ydd wrote a very sweet letter to dil afterwards, but dil still gave her the cold treatment for a few more months.  My ydd had to pay for a comment she innocently made a few months prior to her birthday.  As I read your post I felt like you would be best just moving on and leaving your dil/ds/gc alone and see if they come to you.  If they don't make any contact with you, then you really can't force them to be in the relationship.  Taking a step back could make them realize that you respect yourself and deserve respect from them as well.  I should take my own advice. ;)  Trying to help you ended up helping me see my own situation clearer.  Thanks, Bettylou!
More hugs, Hope
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: bettylou on April 16, 2010, 11:17:21 PM
I would love to know more about your situation with your daughter and daughter in law, because anytime I tell this to people they can not believe it.  They are shocked a grown up can be such a coldhearted bully to my daughter.  Share with me if you like.  To me it shows the daughter in law maybe jelous of any females in her husband's life or family not just his mother.  What do you think about that?  I know what you mean about being punished for innocent comments trust me!  My daughter in law does the same to us all the time.  I am thinking of your advice to sit back and let go and see what happens.
I never call daughter in law anymore because she doesn't answer or talk to me.  I call or email my son when he is at work as that is what he told me was best for him.  I do not call him everyday.  When we talk it is about my personal life, daughter and his fahter and the extended family.  I always ask about grandson and daughter in law.  I do not ask about visiting very often anymore, but I always tell him they are welcome.  I ask if there is anything they need from us, and we talk about tv, movies and current events.  But it is strained I will not lie about that, it is awkward for both of us but atleast I still try and atleast he still picks up his phone.  This happens about every other week or every two weeks or so.  And they live ten minutes away! 
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: Postscript on April 16, 2010, 11:27:23 PM
I don't always get on with my sisters in law.  I have a few, but I've always managed to have at least a civil relationship with them all on both sides. 

One is very competitive (my younger brother's wife), she got pregnant the month after I fell pregnant, once the boys were born (mine arrived first because well, he was conceived first) there was nothing my son could do that couldn't be equalled or bettered by hers.  When my son started crawling at bang on 6 months (it was only exciting for the first day after that it became a nightmare he was into everything!) she claimed her son was talking, okkkkaaaay!  He was 5 weeks to the day younger than my son, which means he was just 4 1/2 months old!  I just said oh that's wonderful but that was when I realized just how competitive she is and it's lasted to this day.  She and my brother are the only family members that never congratulated my son on winning his academic scholarship, he and my nephew go to the same high school.  She was also a little miffy that I had a daughter, she had two sons and would love a daughter.  The point is, I have accepted her as she is and while I don't limit time with her, she's not exactly top of my visiting list but we do get along and for the most part we've managed to find common ground.  I just try to keep to neutral subjects and avoid talk about the kids.

I understand the anguish both you ladies are feeling, your children are being slighted.  As mothers we feel every jab they suffer.  In the long run though, brothers and sisters as adults, live their own lives and don't need to live in each other's pockets.  What I am saying is, while they are younger it may be more of an issue and time will hopefully resolve it.  They can still get together at family occasions and it may be that as they age, they get more in common with their sisters in law.  Hopefully anyway.  I don't know that there is much you can do to make the relationships your daughters have with your daughters in law.  I feel that any interference (and I am using the word in a very non judgmental way for want of a better description) would have a negative impact for you and your daughters.
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: Pen on April 16, 2010, 11:45:44 PM
Betty, your story about the Coach store incident should point out to all of us who are trying so hard to have a relationship with DIL/MIL is that it isn't about the money, or the time, or the attention. You've given your DIL a great amount of all those things, and she still treats you horribly. I'm often tempted to spend way more than I should on DIL, but now I know it wouldn't help. (A Coach bag - I drool over those things when I'm in town.) You need to stop spoiling this woman right now! She doesn't deserve you. However, you can adopt me anytime :)

Regarding your daughter feeling slighted, that's so hard for a mom to witness and help with. In this situation it's even more difficult because you don't want to say anything bad about your DIL and cause more problems, but you want to let your daughter know it isn't her fault. I really feel for you and for her. My DIL has a hard time with my DDD, which is to be expected somewhat but kind of ironic since DIL works in the disabilty field. When DDD asks about seeing DS & DIL I have to be vague and say, "Oh, you know how busy they are." When DDD is treated poorly by anyone it's sad enough, but when she misses her brother and doesn't understand why she can't see him it's heartbreaking. I have a fantasy that one day DS & DIL will plan a fun day out with DDD, but that's all it is - a fantasy.
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: bettylou on April 17, 2010, 12:03:37 AM
They have no time for my daughter but while my son is working daughter in law finds time to have her exhusband for lunch or to sit around the fire pit at night go figure that one out!  What is DDD?  I do not know what that means sorry.  It hurts me more when she is mean to my daughter than when she is mean to me.  It hurts but I would rather hurt than have my child hurting.  My husband is tired of it but is somehow able to not think about it much and blow it off until something new happens.  I am no longer spoiling daughter in law I will not waste my money anymore.  When Christmas came we gave, we gave son a huge gas card that is what he asked for and we gave daughter in law a huge grocery card.  Everyone goes to the grocery store.  I tried to make it helpful but not spoil her anymore, and we buy for grandson but we do not see them til after the holidays because they go to her mother's house for Christmas eve and Christmas Day.  We can not even do our holidays on New Years because they go to her mother's for that too.  Unbelievable!  I just want her stop hurting my family
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: Onlooker on April 17, 2010, 12:20:22 AM
It sounds like it's best if you and your daughter both get some distance from your DIL, and that it would be best if it's (outwardly, at least) calm, cheerful distance. I wouldn't invite DIL to any more casual social outings, I wouldn't give her any more spontaneous expensive gifts, and I would discourage your daughter from asking to come over to hang out. It sounds like you're already doing some of these things; that's good.

If you do want to invite your DIL and son to things like the school event, I would make it a very calm unpressing invitation, as in, "Daughter is receiving an award at school on the evening of the 28th. You're welcome to join us if you'd like to come." And don't ask for a response, don't press, don't complain if the answer is no or there is no answer. If there is a reason why you will need a response, such as limited tickets, then I'd simply not invite them.

Edited to add: In case my advice sounds contradictory from post to post: I still think that it's important to listen to what your son says, and to try to change behaviors that he or your DIL object to _when you interact with them_. But I also think that reduced interaction may be a good idea.

Onlooker
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: Postscript on April 17, 2010, 12:23:17 AM
Bettylou I think having read all of your posts, that you've done enough.  Really you have made every possible effort.  I know it hurts you. 

Perhaps it's time to just take a step back from it all and detach.  Detachment is a technique  health professionals and emergency services workers use.  While they are treating or are involved with the patient/victim, they treat them with empathy and kindness.  For their own sanity however, they cannot afford to involve their emotions in every case, so they learn to keep their personal emotion out of the situation.  If they didn't, they'd break down and burn out.

I'm not suggesting cut off or anything rash, just taking an emotional step back, if you can.  It's not an easy technique to learn and it might not be right for you, this is just a suggestion.
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: Pen on April 17, 2010, 12:35:19 AM
Sorry, DDD is "dear disabled daughter." I think I made up that acronym since I've never seen it anywhere else :D It confuses people all the time. It probably isn't important to tell people, but sometimes it explains my family dynamics.

I agree with Onlooker and Postscript. I understand how you hurt over all this, truly I do. I want your DIL to stop behaving as she does, and I want you to stop being hurt. But, I kind of get the feeling she's not going to change unless DS demands it. Maybe a break is what everyone needs. It'll give DS a chance to see on his own what's going on. He needs to deal with it, but he has to come to that brilliant deduction himself or the change won't happen.  Quell any urges you might have to lead him to it - it most likely will backfire.

Good for you for not spoiling as much anymore. It's hard not to when you so much want to make everyone happy.

Best wishes and {{hugs}} Not enough, I know, but it's all we can do right now.
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: bettylou on April 17, 2010, 12:35:37 AM
I wish I could afford to take us all out to the Coach store, I only do that once a year or so.  I save alot for my fun money if you all only saw all the coupons I clip and keep in there you would laugh.  I usually shop discount. 
I know I need to detach as you said I have never heard that before I will google it.  I am afraid if I do not continue kissing up then I might not see them at all.  I am afraid to do anything to tell you the truth.  I am just so burned up over it all.  I can not stand that we can not see grandson but her ex is over there an awful lot.  They have no kids togethor so I do not get it at all, and son told us he does not aprove but he can't stop her.  I kept my mouth shut as I always do when he tells me things that are negative about her or their marriage.  I look at it like this, he loves her and will always forgive her, I do not love her and sometimes I can not forgive her easily so if I say something in anger he may get hurt over it later or resent me.  I say "well, that is between you two." or "you should be talking to her about this not me."  I am just so burned up...to crisp....on both sides....can't even flip me over!  Ha ha I am like the KFC that got forgotton in the fryer for a few days ladies!
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: Pen on April 17, 2010, 12:46:57 AM
Yup, continue to keep your mouth zipped, Betty, I beg you...what will be will be, but if you have any part in anything between them you will be out forever. Hang in there, it sounds like DS is starting to awaken to reality. I understand your statement about doing what you do so you can see your son - me, too. But I really think you've gotten great advice here from DILs and MILs about backing off. Take care of yourself, get some space, and more than likely things with DS will improve. {{{hugs}}}
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: Postscript on April 17, 2010, 12:56:59 AM
Betty it's kind of the same thing as ignoring your kids when they harp on about something.  The old "are we there yet, are we there yet, are we there yet"  Remember that?  You could empathize with their impatience but you gave up answering after the 20th time.

Here is my suggestion:

You won't be ignoring them, but let them come to you, when they do, let them take the lead.  In other words, let them chase you for a change.   

Don't allow yourself to dissect every nuance of the visit by yourself.  If your son rings after to complain about it, just ask him open ended questions that make him think eg Dear Wife felt you were being picky tonight(just an example from the top of my head not an accusation), Why did she feel that way? What would she like me to do about that? Why would she say that? Keep questioning till he comes to his own satisfactory conclusion.  Don't act or seem defensive in any way, just curious. 

Post about it here when it happens and get your feelings out so you can look at how you felt and why. 
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: bettylou on April 17, 2010, 12:58:20 AM
Ok gals, I will back off why not?  I have tried everything else and it got me nothing but scorn.  I will back off.  But I would still like to be here for friendship and advice and a place to complain.  I need that because I can not let myself complain to family or son
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: Postscript on April 17, 2010, 01:05:26 AM
Quote from: bettylou on April 17, 2010, 12:58:20 AM
Ok gals, I will back off why not?  I have tried everything else and it got me nothing but scorn.  I will back off.  But I would still like to be here for friendship and advice and a place to complain.  I need that because I can not let myself complain to family or son

I want to say something that is going to sound a little off but I don't know any other way to put it, I mean it with the best of intent so if anyone else can rephrase it by all means do and Betty please take it with the best spirits as I mean no disrespect...

Basically by pandering to them, you've allowed yourself to become a doormat and your daughter in law feels she can wipe her feet on you.  By backing off and not chasing her, you'll prick at her ego.  Things will probably be very quiet for a while, then she will realize suddenly there's a space in front of the door and nothing to wipe her feet on.

See what I mean about the phrasing? But I don't mean it badly.
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: Onlooker on April 17, 2010, 01:23:03 AM
Postscript, I was thinking something similar and couldn't figure out how to phrase it.

I'm less sure of the motivation behind this DIL's behavior, but every reason that I can think of - whether she wants that doormat, or she feels pestered, or she feels hurt or disrespected and is lashing out, or a combination - is likely to be improved by backing off and increasing emotional distance.

And, BettyLou, not backing off with visible anger or hurt or "I'll show you!" Just calmly backing off, trying to make your mindset the way that it would be if your life were just a little too full of other happy fulfilling things, and you were very happy that your son and his family were getting along so well without needing any help from you, so that you could keep focusing on those other things.

Onlooker
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: Postscript on April 17, 2010, 01:25:43 AM
Totally agree with your assessment Onlooker, and yeah I couldn't work out how else to put it :(
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: cremebrulee on April 17, 2010, 06:20:34 AM
yanno, after reading all these posts, it gave me an idea....Betty, I backed off completely for 3 years, or maybe 2 1/2 years, I don't remember, then, my son and I started talking...he would call every Sat. on his way to work, just as he had in the past...but I had no contact with DIL for another year or year an a half...when son and I talked, we never mentioned the situation...and we started getting closer...he seemed he looked forward to our chats and he became more at ease, offering more to the conversation, sharing with me stories about GD and DIL...as time went on, to be honest, my heart starting aching...now, in all this time, the hurt and anger started drifting away, along with the blame...again, I started thinking about what some of the DIL's were trying to tell me in the other sites...but then, I couldn't even consider that I might have done something wrong, or, that maybe, my DIL wasn't doing things to try and hurt me, she was reacting to my negative energy...and I'm sure all you gals know, when your going thru this with someone who you feel hates you and doesn't want to be around you, you become nervous, anxious, wanting only to get along...that's all you want...and you fumble, studder, etc.  So, long story short, when I finally got enough courage to write my DIL a second letter, (the first was years ago, and in that letter I was aloof, making demands, and pointing fingers at her) I wrote her how I felt...again, this was 12 years later...time had matured both of us, distance, I believe made us both think...about the whole situation a little more unbiased...so, what I'm thinking is Betty, it is difficult to estrange yourself from the situation, son and DIL...however, if your strong, during that time, you could read books on this issue, like I did...you could self examine...I kept trying to figure out what I did wrong...or what I did that offended her, hurt her...and started realizing, and allowing thoughts to enter my mind, that maybe I did unknowing say or do things that were not meant to hurt her, but she was hurt. 

So, when she called, and believe me, I never ever thought she would...I really believed nothing would ever change, and I would live with this the rest of my life, and had resolved myself to that. 

However, time did mature us both, and I believe we both evaluated the whole situation, and we were both ready to listen to each other.  I know my DIL told my son, that she was pleased with the honesty during that first conversation...and believe me, I was scared...but as we started to talk, and exchange stories...I became more confident.  It was amazing how perceptions of two different people, see things so differently...

She actually said to me, that she was going to try to change some things, and I told her, "no, please don't..now that I know this is who you are, and what your personal mannerisums are, I won't take offense to what you do any longer...I told her, that whole time, I thought you were doing these things to hurt me, to let me know I wasn't welcome in your life".  And it was her and me...she told me, that they went to counselling b/c of me, and I was devestated...really  devestated...she said, it was b/c my son, would take my side, when they argued about me...and she felt he was siding with me and not her, when all the time, he was defending both of us to each other...I told her, I felt the same way...like he was being disloyal to me, and accepting her behavior as normal...and it was normal...to her, it's who she was and is..

Betty, give yourself some space, like the others have suggested, I believe at this point, it's a good idea...don't cut them off completely like I did...that was next to unbearable for me...however, back off, give them space...and when they do call...don't call back right away...talk to them, as if nothing happened...if you can....but let them make the first move...why?  Because it makes them feel like they're not being made to, or expected to, and it makes things much more comfortable...they might see the change and become curious...then, maybe when the time is right, you will be able to discuss all of this with her...tell her your feelings were hurt, and if you feel that way, then she must feel that way to.  Explain to her that this is hurting everyone, and that is the last thing you wanted to happen...tell  her sincerely that you don't hate her or never did, and that you feel you both might have gotten off to a bad start b/c things happened, you didn't talk them out, and things started to escalate until pretty soon, both of you were taking each others reactions as a personal attack against each other. 

Just my suggestions...but I found out, when I was sincere, we were both ready to listen...however, these things take time...do dilagence and a willingness to let go of past actions and forgive...and I know from my heart of hearts...that all I wanted was to forgive her and to have her forgive me...that I believe is what breaks us..is the fact that there is animosity between us...no one wants that, we all want to be liked, especially by our son's wives...we don't want to really hate them or dislike them...but we're angry b/c the unknown is constantly knawing at us and we keep asking ourselves why, why, what did I do?  That little voice inside us, can surely be a constant nudge...and it follows you around like a dark cloud all the time...

It's not easy to say these things to yourself when you feel you did nothing wrong...and I honestly felt I hadn't done a thing...that she hated me, and actually believed she invented all this stuff to get me out of they're lives, and she felt the same way about me, which then raises cross hairs in a woman, and now we're ready to fight...saying "Bring it on" and nothing but nothing ever gets accomplished that way...not to mention you can cut the tension with a knife...when your together...

I don't know if this helps or not...I hope so Betty.
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: MLW07 on April 17, 2010, 09:04:00 AM
Quote from: bettylou on April 16, 2010, 10:43:04 PM
I asked daughter in law if she would like to come to the Coach store with my daughter and I.  I would treat each of us to a bag and then lunch.  I offered to drive but daughter in law said it would not work she would meet us there.  She was half an hour late, and talked on the phone the entire time.  She had no interest in talking to either one of us.  When she did finally get off the phone and chose the biggest most expensive bag  to the register she told my daughter how she never gets out and is always stuck at home with my grandson because she can never get a babysitter.  She knew that was a sensitive topic with my daughter and she had to go there.  She did tell us how her mother was watching him that day and taking him to the zoo for the first time.  She loves to tell us what her family is doing with him.  She always has a huge smirk when she tells us he is with her mother doing all kinds of fun things.  We felt really low because of her.  My daughter did ask when she might be able to come over and hang out with her and son and baby and daughter in law rolled her eyes and said "we'll have to see about that one!"  It was as if my daughter had asked her to put her through college or something. She then told me she was not going to lunch with us because she was driving across town to get her nails done "oh well maybe next time."
I do not know why she is so mean to my daughter!  Once we asked her and son to come see daughter get an award from the group she belongs to for the gifted, daughter in law said out loud, "if she is so gifted whey is not enrolled at X school for the gifted in our town"  I was shocked but explained to her that it was too much money for us and she laughed and said "if she was truely gifted and talented she could go there for free."  This is what we deal with everytime we see her.  She never brings grandson and she spends the time slamming me and my daughter and then has my son call us to complain about our "rudeness"  or things that hurt her.  When I once asked son if he thought all thienegative towards daughter would damage her, he told his wife.  She told him I was damagaing everyone in my life and how dare I accuse them of something like that.  I must be so manipulative and cruel.
Why does she hate my daughter so much?

She sounds like a spoiled brat and needs to have the rudeness knocked out of her.  I'm sorry she did this; I can't imagine ever being that rude.
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: Hope on April 17, 2010, 10:51:04 AM
Quote from: bettylou on April 17, 2010, 12:58:20 AM
Ok gals, I will back off why not?  I have tried everything else and it got me nothing but scorn.  I will back off.  But I would still like to be here for friendship and advice and a place to complain.  I need that because I can not let myself complain to family or son
Absolutely, Bettylou.  We want you to come here and unload.  That's what we're here for - to support eachother.  We care about you and want to walk with you.  We are here for you - please keep on sharing. 
Lots of hugs, Hope
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: elsieshaye on April 18, 2010, 07:35:31 AM
Totally agree with what others have said that detachment is probably the best approach here.  And definitely agree with Creme that it may take several years of letting them be before you see results.  I know it hurts to think about not seeing them much, if at all, for a long time, but I really do think that's what it may take to heal the relationship between you and your DS's family. Like I said in another post, it took 3 years of distance between me and my parents, but those 3 years made the hugest difference imaginable, and we were able to be close again.   You've already got the beginnings of detachment skill in the way that you respond when your son complains about DIL.  Hang in there.
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: cremebrulee on April 18, 2010, 02:06:05 PM
Quotebettylou   
Why does she hate my daughter so much?



maybe she doesn't hate her as much as she is envious of her...?  Just a thought
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: luise.volta on April 18, 2010, 06:18:23 PM
And keep posting, Bettylou. Back off and practice some self-love and stay connected with us. Read other people's posts and give them a hand and let us know how you are doing. Sending love...
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: bettylou on April 19, 2010, 05:37:52 AM
Why would a grown woman with all the money she wants and the best of everything be jelous of my daughter?  Jelous enough to act out like that?  My daughter is a teen and she does not even drive a car.  What is the conflict?  She has told me repeatedly how my daughter is "loud, or pushy or rude or immature for her age, awkward, selfish, very needy, exagerates, acts up, childish etc."  She always finds a way to say something negative about her, its hurtful
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: cremebrulee on April 19, 2010, 07:21:34 AM
Quote from: bettylou on April 19, 2010, 05:37:52 AM
Why would a grown woman with all the money she wants and the best of everything be jelous of my daughter?  Jelous enough to act out like that?  My daughter is a teen and she does not even drive a car.  What is the conflict?  She has told me repeatedly how my daughter is "loud, or pushy or rude or immature for her age, awkward, selfish, very needy, exagerates, acts up, childish etc."  She always finds a way to say something negative about her, its hurtful

What awful things to say about her brother's sister?  Well, were your son and his sister close?  Perhaps your DIL, sees the enthusiasum your daughter has for her brother....I know when I was little and even older, I idolized my big brother...and he me...in grasping at straws here, I'm wondering if your DIL senses the closeness and is jealous of that?   Are your daughter and son close?
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: womenrule123 on April 19, 2010, 07:21:47 AM
Hello there! It sounds like your dil is feeling jealous and feels she has no "value' within the family. Not to justify your dil's behavior but it's obvious she has her hackles up! I don't agree with dil using her child as her source of "power" and "control" over the situation but several individuals do it. I would suggest putting a stop to dil's insults towards you and your family. It's verbal and emotional abuse!! Where is your son in this matter??  Just wondering!!
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: cremebrulee on April 19, 2010, 07:22:23 AM
Quote from: Anna on April 19, 2010, 06:12:35 AM
Bettylou, I don't know why she may be jealous but my dil was too.  My son was close to his cousin, & his brother.  He hardly ever sees either one of them anymore.  My oldest son & niece wish it could be different.  My son was always like a big brother to my neice,  (she in an only child).  Dil met son when his cousin was 9 years old, & he suddenly stopped having much to do with her.  I think my dil was jealous of the closeness between the two, & wanted that for herself, & didn't want to share him with anyone.  Maybe because she'd never had that closeness in her life.  Is your dil close with her mom.  I don't mean just spending lots of time together, I mean really close. Some people spend lots of time together, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are close.

you could be right Anna, makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: Onlooker on April 19, 2010, 01:53:18 PM
Quote from: bettylou on April 19, 2010, 05:37:52 AM
Why would a grown woman with all the money she wants and the best of everything be jelous of my daughter?  Jelous enough to act out like that?

I'm pausing here, because I'm wondering why you assume that the issue would have anything to do with money? The issue of money seems to come up a lot when you talk about your daughter in law - how much she spends, what she wears, what car she drives, your buying her expensive presents. You seem to resent what she has, but to try to please her by giving her more.

Relationship issues and jealousies aren't related to money, all that often. So I'm wondering why money keeps coming up.

Even in the case of the shower and her demanding expensive presents, I don't see that as being about _money_. I see it as being about her perceiving a lack of respect and regard, and incorrectly tying it to money. Money has a lot of symbolism, and I suspect that you and your DIL are interpreting those symbols very, very differently. A cigar is not just a cigar, money is not just money.

I'm wondering if there are any specific money conflicts? For example does your son ever help you out with money, and could your DIL blame that for the fact that she has to work at all? Or does he not help you out and do you resent that fact? Or do you frequently voice your opinions about your DIL and son's money decisions?

> Jelous enough to act out
> like that?  My daughter is a teen and she does not even drive a
> car. 

Again, I don't see the relevance of a car. We're back to money. Why does money keep entering the question?

I'm not trying to badger you, I'm trying to get at thoughts that you may not be entirely consciously aware of. Why would "jealous" automatically make you think of possessions and money?

> What is the conflict?  She has told me repeatedly how my
> daughter is "loud, or pushy or rude or immature for her age,
> awkward, selfish, very needy, exagerates, acts up, childish
> etc."  She always finds a way to say something negative about
> her, its hurtful

I'll present a tangle of facts: You love your daughter. You dislike and resent your DIL. Your son loves your daughter. Your DIL is supposed to be the most important woman in your son's life. You and your daughter are other important women in your son's life. Your daughter is very fond of your DIL's son and wants to spend time with him. Your DIL probably can't spend as much time with her son as she would like, if she has to work part time. You resent the fact that your DIL works only part time; if you your preference and she worked full time she'd have even less time with her son. Your daughter wants to spend time with your DIL's son, which would take away some of your DIL's time with him.

It seems to me that _of course_ your daughter is a major candidate for jealousy for your DIL. It may not be rational jealousy, and there may not be anything the least bit unusual about any of those facts above, but I think it's there anyway. Jealousy is never rational.

That doesn't mean that it's acceptable for your DIL to say what she says. But you can't control what she says; all you can do is get distance from her, for yourself and for your daughter.

An example: If a person says to you, "You're ugly!" you can react in many different ways.

1) You can walk up to them and demand to know, "Why would you say I'm ugly? Everyone agrees that I'm reasonably attractive. I go to the salon every two weeks to get my hair taken care of. I just got a consultation for my makeup. I've always been known to have good taste in clothes. I..."

In other words, you take in what they say and make yourself responsible for arguing against it, to change their mind.

2) Or you can go to your friends and say, "Why would she say I'm ugly? Don't you think she's wrong? Don't you think that I'm reasonably attractive? Wasn't it rude of her to say that? Do you think I'm ugly? Look at this picture of me that day, do I look ugly to you? Wasn't she rude? Isn't that rude, to say that?"

In this case, you take in what they say and put a lot of work into reassuring yourself that they're wrong.

3) Or you can look at them, blink, and walk away to try the bean dip, telling yourself, "They must be having a bad day."

In this case, you take in what they say, you consider whether you have any responsibility to take any action regarding it, you decide that you don't, and you let it go. This is the response that I recommend.

As an example of something that your DIL does (I assume that she doesn't make the "ugly!" remark) , it's wrong for your DIL to downgrade your daughter's school or gifted program in your daughter's presence.

However, let's look at that issue. Did your DIL attend a gifted program? Did she attend a good school? Have you indicated any lack of respect for your DIL academically? Have you ever made any comparison between your family's intelligence and academic achievement and that of your DIL and her family? Have you said anything disparaging about your DIL's school, even in a roundabout way? For example, if your DIL attended a state school, then any remark suggesting that state schools are inferior could be taken as a slam.

You dislike and resent your DIL, so it seems not impossible that you might have at least hinted along these lines. And, your DIL knows you dislike and resent her, so even if you honestly never, ever did such a thing, it's not impossible that she might have picked up something that wasn't there.

None of that changes the fact that your DIL shouldn't insult your daughter. But it's an example of what I mean by deciding whether you have any responsibility to take action. If you've ever disparaged your DIL's academic achievements, you can recognize how you did it and resolve to never, ever do so again. If you haven't, then all you can do is, again, distance yourself. You can't change her behavior. It doesn't matter if it's fair or right. You can spend a lifetime proving to yourself and others that she's wrong and unfair about something, but that won't change her behavior.

Similarly, consider whether you have any responsibility for guiding your daughter in her behavior. Does she repeatedly demand time with her nephew? She may need to just stop asking. Does she have an exaggerated hurt reaction when  DIL isn't nice to her? She may need to accept that DIL is not one of the people in her life who will show her support and love. That's sad, but it may just be the way it is.

Onlooker
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: bettylou on April 20, 2010, 07:00:06 AM
I assure the issues I have with my daughter have little if anything to do with their finances.  We do not help them pay for their lifestyle and they do not help us pay for ours.  I am a saver when it comes to money, I buy on discount and clip coupons so that I can afford to treat myself and those I love when I want to. 
  I do feel sad for my son that he works so much because he tells me how he does not get enough time with his son.  As far as my dil goes, she works partime while my husband does the lion's share of the work, I do feel sad about that.  I have not ever made my feelings known to them about this because it would do me or anyone else no good.  I simply feel bad that my son works so hard and so long eachday to finance cars and trips constantly.  He does not drive the fancy car and does not even like to fly.  If your son was working so hard to please someone else perhaps you would feel this way too. 
  When I said she has all the money and thing she wants and that my daughter does not even drive yet, I simply meant, why would an adult woman that is as free as a bird to do what she pleases when she pleases be jelous of a young girl, that has to go to school everyday and work on honors classes and is not spoiled with her own car?  That is what I was pondering.
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: luise.volta on April 20, 2010, 07:15:41 AM
You may well be looking for logic where there isn't any. Sad but true.
Title: Re: more of my side....
Post by: Pen on April 20, 2010, 07:43:08 AM
Betty, I agree with Luise. And I continue to believe, after reading many posts from DILs and MILs, that there are some people who have an agenda going in, and if they have their mind set against us DILs or MILs, they will look for and find any excuse to "get rid of us." Luckily there are many more instances of both sides trying to work it out, but some of us haven't been as fortunate.