OMG! Did anyone else watch Dr. Phil today?
Even the language is similar - boundaries, space, attachment...omg, I'm just flabbergasted.
No I don't watch TV but why are you flabbergasted? Aren't those today's buzz words? What am I missing here? Sending love...
No, but I saw the show where he thought it was perfectly okay to only have seen his in-laws 3 times in his lengthy marriage. He said it is because he never wanted them to think visits with them were to be expected. I was a little taken back by his nonchalance about that. He said his ILs seem like great people, he just never wanted to be with them. It made me angry for some reason. But, his wife seemed happy, so I guess my passing judgement is wrong. Still, I really haven't watched him since.
What a bunch of hooey!
I rarely watch Dr. Phil but today when I turned on the TV to watch the weather it was tuned to his show. At first I thought it was about moms and married sons!
The show was about 2 moms who wanted to see their adult children who had joined a group in NM whose leader kept them away from their FsOO. These women and their other children had not seen or spoken to them for over 2 years. Honestly, their stories sounded like some DMs/MILs here. The young woman was brought in to meet her mom and sister. She told them she didn't need them in her life, that their desire to have a connection with her was "just an attachment."
The other mom finally got to speak to her son by phone...he said things about respecting his boundaries, not invading his space, not speaking badly of his friends, etc. His speech was short, patronizing and cold. It sounded so familiar!
He told his mom he'd meet her the next day for lunch and she was so excited she jumped up and down and danced for joy. Of course he called the next day and canceled, and his mom was absolutely devastated. Dr. Phil asked the mom if she thought he was being coached by the leader of the cult. She said yes because he sounded so cold and fake. "I just want to see my son," she said. "I just want to see him." Her other son was able to speak to him the day before as well and he said, "I just want to talk to my brother alone, but that's probably impossible."
It was chilling. Dr. Phil and the audience were clearly feeling the moms' and siblings pain. I thought, I wonder if they'd be so compassionate about a mom whose DS treated her that way after he got married?
but the one thing that seems to be common is the control factor.. would it not make sense that once someone allows their way of thinking to truly be controlled by someone/anyone, then the person who is the dominate force in the relationship would feel the need to control every aspect of that person and begin to isolate the person to help retain control.. whoa.. I should have taken a breath on that one :)
It's funny that Dr Phil was mentioned.. just today I was wondering how his family life was. I don't know if it's true but it seems like some of these psychiatrist (I don't know if that is really his field) have some of the more odd families.
Forget that it's freaky Dr. Phil (who actually said very little one way or the other for once, just showed the videotape and listened to the moms and sibs) and consider the content of the show. If you can, watch it. I'm telling you, I had chills. It was hard to watch the mom's faces as they either saw their brainwashed adult kids face to face or tried to have a conversation by phone. I knew how they felt; it was really familiar - wanting to connect, to hug, to get through, but holding back for fear of scaring them away and being absolutely devastated by their rejection. No parent wants to go through that, ever, no matter what the cause.
It will haunt me for awhile, I'm sure.
I think Laurie nailed it Pen. It is all about control. It is the same as a cult, which is also based on control, so the similarities you saw, to me make perfect sense. I think we three have very controlling DILs that want center stage, and if we will not give it to them, then they will cut down the size of the audience. Eventually, the audience is cut down until the only people allowed to see the performance, will be those that will give them a standing ovation.
Did the show offer suggestions on dealing with something like this? I'm wondering, since it does sound so similar, if there aren't some tips that would be applicable to your situations.
Ha! It just hit me after I wrote that post, that by that analogy, MIL and DIL problem people are almost total opposites in their behavior. Whereas a controlling DIL wants to cull down the audience and eliminate people, a controlling MIL wants to send out massive invites to her performance until she can get people to agree and sympathize with her. Ok, I have one of those weird brain days going on today...Sorry.
A lot of controlling people I know only take their control so far. It's only fun until the audience is completely culled. Then they backpedal. It's not as much fun without an audience, I guess. I guess the difference between a controlling DIL and a cult is that cults attract more people, so that's how they stay alive and keep the fervor going.
Quote from: holliberri on February 17, 2011, 06:44:37 AM
Did the show offer suggestions on dealing with something like this? I'm wondering, since it does sound so similar, if there aren't some tips that would be applicable to your situations.
Short of drinking the kool-aid?
I know years ago, when the hippy cults were going strong, some parents actually kidnapped their own adult children.. once removed from the cult many of these people were able to redirect their lives. The one obvious connection was how the people that had become powerless to make their own decisions honestly thought they 'loved' the leaders, and because we teach our kids that you should love without condition the human brain translated that into a blind following. Three examples of this that had profound effects was of course.. Charlie Manson, Jim Jones (Jonestown, Guyana), and David Koresh(Waco).
I think that is why often times you see mothers here feeling like if they can just get a little free time with their son/daughter then they can talk some sense into them.. which of course only adds to the problem.
My grandma used to say, "Everyone will eventually show their true colors. And when they do, some people will just be gray. Must be lonely and miserable to just be gray. I want to be a rainbow." Man I miss her.
Quote from: Laurie on February 17, 2011, 07:47:37 AM
I think that is why often times you see mothers here feeling like if they can just get a little free time with their son/daughter then they can talk some sense into them.. which of course only adds to the problem.
I guess in the case of a DIL, it could add to the problem, instead of preventing further isolation. I guess that doesn't help.
Quote from: Pooh on February 17, 2011, 07:49:27 AM
My grandma used to say, "Everyone will eventually show their true colors. And when they do, some people will just be gray. Must be lonely and miserable to just be gray. I want to be a rainbow." Man I miss her.
Oh Pooh.. being a rainbow now is not a good thing.. pick a color any color.. pick two.. but never a rainbow
Ha! Nope....I still want to be a rainbow.
Ok then make sure you have a bow in your hair :)
Hi, Ladies.
I don't know your DIL's so I am having such a hard time "relating" here. You say that your DIL's are so controling of your sons-- keeping them away from you and such. I know that my own MIL has a very similar picture of me. This picture could not be farther than the truth. My DH doesn't want to see his mother because, well, she can get kinda nasty with him (and everyone for that matter). So his "distance" actually has nothing to do with me.
But, as the DIL, I get all of the blame for her precious little boy not seeing her enough (which is total malarky btw, we have seen her 3 times already this year).
So, I guess my question is. Even if your DS is saying "Yes, Mom, DIL is mean keeping me away from you." How do you know that he isn't just telling you what you want to hear/passing the blame off onto DIL?
Additionally, DH wrote his mother a letter, which of course was blamed on me, even though he has told her time and time again that he wrote it on his own (which is the 100% truth), she continues to blame me for it.
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on February 17, 2011, 08:57:03 AM
Additionally, DH wrote his mother a letter, which of course was blamed on me, even though he has told her time and time again that he wrote it on his own (which is the 100% truth), she continues to blame me for it.
I feel like I say this all the time on here, but letters/e-mails/texts don't really do all that much to deliver a message. It leaves you wide open for suggestions that he was forced to write it, and eliminates any chance for reasonable dialogue. If you have a message you really need to get across...doing it alone and in person seems the best way to do it to me.
You sound pretty angry and I don't blame you. However, in each case circumstances differ and when a DIL takes a stand against her MIL, it isn't hard to figure out. Your MIL doesn't want to hear what your husband is saying.
It's probably about them, not you. Sending love...
Yes Adil, some moms are quick to lay blame. When you are hurt, it's hard to imagine that the person you raised would purposely cause this type of pain. But that isn't always the case, and since we are continually slapping ourselves for generalizing situations, a concentrated effort is often made to isolate situations.
When you asked: So, I guess my question is. Even if your DS is saying "Yes, Mom, DIL is nasty by keeping me away from you." How do you KNOW that he isn't just telling you what you want to hear/passing the blame off onto DIL?
I guess you don't, but you do know and hope that you can trust people at their word... the same man that you are implying that would say and think completely opposite things is the same man that is telling his wife that she is the most important thing in her world and that he would never cheat on her with another woman... I mean really how do you know, if you are not willing to accept what is being said?
Excellent point, HB. Keep making it! And sometimes doing it in front of a third person works well. It's harder to refute that way.
opps sorry.. I did't mean to leave Adil's quote in my posting.. why? because I know that is not acceptable.. so my apology.. now Luise can you please modify that posting for me and I guess this one as well.. Thanks.. darn pesky mistakes
Very true. If you can't trust what people are saying to you, it can make you a miserable self-righteous person (like my brother HaHa!).
And I am fast learning that it is pointless to ever write a letter to anyone in DH's family. Makes it difficult for me because that is my prefered way of communication. You can get out everything that you have to say without interuption. You can re-read and edit so it says what you want it to in a non-hurtful way. I really don't like confrontation. My brother says I am tactless and not diplomatic at all. He really doesn't give me enough credit, but the last thing I really want it to lose it and scream and yell at them that I hate them! LOL I really don't hate them, just some of the stuff they do sometimes. Especially when I can't understand Why they do it. But as Luise has said in the past, there is basically no point trying to figure out why. It'll only give me a headache.
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on February 17, 2011, 09:25:44 AM
You can get out everything that you have to say without interuption. You can re-read and edit so it says what you want it to in a non-hurtful way.
I felt this way for a long time too. What I learned was that it was cathartic for me, but it didn't do anything to solve the problem. In fact, no matter how non-hurtful I tried to be, my parents always (in my mind) "found" a way to be hurt. Writing a letter was giving me a way to get everything off of my chest without allowing the other person a chance to do the same; if they felt compelled to respond, they wrote back, and that escalated things. That's basically non-communication.
My last fight with my mom finally ended when she said, "Please, stop writing me letters when you have a problem, it's too easy to take out of context, and I think it's inconsiderate of my feelings." A light bulb went off in my head. It's not all about me. If I want to genuinely fix the problem with the other person, I have to allow them their platform too, even if that means they interrupt me.
Quote from: holliberri on February 17, 2011, 06:44:37 AM
Did the show offer suggestions on dealing with something like this? I'm wondering, since it does sound so similar, if there aren't some tips that would be applicable to your situations.
There weren't any suggestions, just observations. Dr. Phil kept saying he was just presenting the story and the audience could judge for themselves if they thought it was a cult. He had a cult expert give some warning signs, and the expert's conclusion was that it probably was a cult. The men who were accompanying the moms on the visitations cautioned them to stay as calm & unemotional as possible, no hugging or enthusiasm as it might scare their kids away (I find myself doing this!) The mother of the young man had to go to the compound to try to see him, and got a bit upset when she was denied access. Dr. Phil told her she shouldn't have kicked the door, and she agreed. He said he understood her frustration. The mother of the young woman called the cult leader evil, nasty, horrible, etc. There was no attempt at kidnapping, presumably because the kids were adults.
The ex-wife of the cult leader was also there. She said her ex husband was charismatic and charming at first, then became controlling. The cult expert said that's a classic sign; that these leaders are often narcissistic as well. They lure people in with their charm, convince them that their FOOs don't have their best interests at heart, limit access to the outside world, and tell them only the cult/cult leader truly love them. Eventually they are convinced that they are making the decision to cut off all by themselves. I find a lot of similarities with how my DIL & her FOO treat my DS. He is with them 5-7 days a week, has been told that we're losers, is given expensive gifts (bribes?), has his schedule planned by DIL & her FOO, etc. etc. When he stands up for himself or for us he's thrown a bone. They don't want to appear to be over-controlling, after all.
Very well said Holli... I agree a letter is still a confrontation, only it's very one sided and ends up being nothing more then you making a statement as to how you feel wronged. And yes, there will always be hard feelings attached.
You've have to be able to have enough self-restraint to prevent yourself from latching onto their throats. Once again it's communication you want and when one person shuts down to the point of screaming, they are no longer capable of hearing anything else from that point forward.
Quote from: Pen on February 17, 2011, 09:39:07 AM
I find a lot of similarities with how my DIL & her FOO treat my DS. He is with them 5-7 days a week, has been told that we're losers, is given expensive gifts (bribes?), has his schedule planned by DIL & her FOO, etc. etc. When he stands up for himself or for us he's thrown a bone. They don't want to appear to be over-controlling, after all.
That is very sad. :( I really don't understand how anyone could poison you against your own family. It is just awful!
On a side note, I don't think it is good to be around anyone (not DH's FOO or My FOO) 5-7 days a week on a regular basis. I could barely stand to go on a vacation with my FOO, and have no desire to repeat the vaca with DH's FOO. It was a nightmare. Completely centered everything around MIL/SIL. DH and I weren't even allowed to go for a walk on the beach by ourselves. ???
Pen.. It had to be hard to sit and watch that show if you could find so many similarities between what they were saying and your own life. I'm sure you even dreamed about it last night. I believe that it is possible that a person in a new relationship could almost be brainwashed and lose sight of his/her own values. I would have thought that this would relate more towards females, but according to the membership of the cults there are many many men involved. The difference I can see is that men are lured with promises of rewards.. women are lured easily when they are searching for love and acceptance.
ADIL, to answer your question from my situation, it is not assumptions, but from dealing with it. It is from his friends calling me and asking me can I please talk to him about them not being allowed to hang out with him any longer. It is from being with my DS and having her call or text 20 times with no real issues, justing wanting to know every move he makes. It is from family gatherings in the past where if he walks over to talk to my Dad or his Brother, she will hurry after him to listen to everything being said. It is from her not allowing him to go anywhere without her. It is from my YS calling me and being upset because he and his brother had planned to go play golf (when he came in on a 3 day military leave after being gone for 8 months) and then his brother calling him back and saying he couldn't go unless DIL could go with them. It is from watching her personally pitch a fit every time he wanted to go do something with me, his brother or his Dad. And yes, it is from my DS telling me himself that he is not allowed to do anything without her.
I know you were asking in earnest and I know that there are MILs out there that blame the DIL for everything when it is not them, and that is a horrible position to be in. But in my case, I have witnessed it firsthand and so has much of my family. It is a combination of all these things, with everyone that causes me to say my DIL is controlling.
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on February 17, 2011, 09:45:31 AM
On a side note, I don't think it is good to be around anyone (not DH's FOO or My FOO) 5-7 days a week on a regular basis. I could barely stand to go on a vacation with my FOO, and have no desire to repeat the vaca with DH's FOO. It was a nightmare. Completely centered everything around MIL/SIL. DH and I weren't even allowed to go for a walk on the beach by ourselves. ???
Short of a two day outing, I have no desire to go on vacation with my extended family. Well unless maybe a cruise where everyone can go off and do their own thing for days on end. Because in the end.. someone is gonna make it personal.
I'm with you guys on the vacation thing. I did it once with my Ex's family and I said never again, because just as ADIL said, it was all about them and what they wanted to do. I wouldn't want to go with my parents either, and I love them. To me, vacation time is for relaxing and having fun, and that is hard to do if you have to try and accomodate everyone's wishes.
Pooh.. don't you often feel like only you are being blamed for feeling this way.. I know that is what ended up happening within my own family.. my son was at one point convinced that only I had these issues.. When my dh spoke with him, he said yeah I know how mom feels.. DH went on to say that this was also how he felt even if he was better at keeping it to himself... Eventually my dd called her brother.. in his mind, mom put her up to this.. when in fact everyone sees what is going on and everyone is reacting in their own way.
At first I said to the other family members.. maybe she will not feel as threatened if she thinks this is my isolated problem.. not any more... I turn my back and I choose not to indirectly protect her from her own actions any longer.
I did in the beginning. I figured I was just seeing these things because I was Mom. But after his friends starting commenting on it, and then my Mother said something (who never says anything and is the most unintrusive person ever), and then his brother, well it made me realize it wasn't just me. And this sounds bad, but I actual feel better about my situtation because it isn't just me having problems with them.
Quote from: Pooh on February 17, 2011, 10:01:22 AM
I did in the beginning. I figured I was just seeing these things because I was Mom. But after his friends starting commenting on it, and then my Mother said something (who never says anything and is the most unintrusive person ever), and then his brother, well it made me realize it wasn't just me. And this sounds bad, but I actual feel better about my situtation because it isn't just me having problems with them.
Oh I agree.. but do you think the dil/ds combo feels that it's just you and everyone else is following suit?
I would say in the case of my Mother, YS and other family they probably do feel that way.
Quote from: Pooh on February 17, 2011, 09:48:06 AM
ADIL, to answer your question from my situation, it is not assumptions, but from dealing with it. It is from his friends calling me and asking me can I please talk to him about them not being allowed to hang out with him any longer. It is from being with my DS and having her call or text 20 times with no real issues, justing wanting to know every move he makes. It is from family gatherings in the past where if he walks over to talk to my Dad or his Brother, she will hurry after him to listen to everything being said. It is from her not allowing him to go anywhere without her. It is from my YS calling me and being upset because he and his brother had planned to go play golf (when he came in on a 3 day military leave after being gone for 8 months) and then his brother calling him back and saying he couldn't go unless DIL could go with them. It is from watching her personally pitch a fit every time he wanted to go do something with me, his brother or his Dad. And yes, it is from my DS telling me himself that he is not allowed to do anything without her.
I know you were asking in earnest and I know that there are MILs out there that blame the DIL for everything when it is not them, and that is a horrible position to be in. But in my case, I have witnessed it firsthand and so has much of my family. It is a combination of all these things, with everyone that causes me to say my DIL is controlling.
Pooh, right after the marriage my DIL started speaking poorly of DS's friends who had been integral parts of the wedding party. DS then started pulling away from them, citing various reasons that sounded like DIL's words. It was sad to see DS become estranged from his past. It was comforting in an odd way to know we weren't the only "losers" to be jettisoned from DS's life. I've noticed a couple of his friends are back on the scene, tenuously. Perhaps DS is waking up.
Quote from: Pen on February 17, 2011, 09:39:07 AM
Quote from: holliberri on February 17, 2011, 06:44:37 AM
I find a lot of similarities with how my DIL & her FOO treat my DS. He is with them 5-7 days a week, has been told that we're losers, is given expensive gifts (bribes?), has his schedule planned by DIL & her FOO, etc. etc. When he stands up for himself or for us he's thrown a bone. They don't want to appear to be over-controlling, after all.
I can see that, Pen. In your case, it's not just a DIL, it's an entire family. I think the cult analogy works quite well, although I wish I could help you out somehow.
Quote from: Laurie on February 17, 2011, 10:03:53 AM
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Oh I agree.. but do you think the dil/ds combo feels that it's just you and everyone else is following suit?
I spent a lot of money on therapy to learn just b/c someone feels one way or even verbalizes something like that, it doesn't make it true. I got enormous relief from that, even if I didn't manage to change their mind.
Plus, in this situation, it's everyone else's opinion versus theirs. Majority rules and all! :)
@Pooh, somehow I had missed your response about your DIL. She really does sound like a piece of work. I definitely understand why you say she is controlling. Non of the young marrieds that I know are like this, so I have never witnessed it first hand. So sorry that you have to go through this. How long have they been married? Any chance he is going to leave her? He obviously sees that he is isolated from the other people that he cares about.
Mine started when they were dating and engaged. He had tons of friends and all of a sudden, didn't seem to be doing anything with any of them. I finally asked him one day if he was having issues with his friends, and he reluctantly admitted that if he went anywhere with any of them, she called constantly. And had even gone as far as driving to their houses if she found out he was with one of them. His take was his friends didn't understand and so he was just not going anywhere with them anymore.
His friends that spoke to me a couple of times told me that it was so hard to have any time with him because she was calling constantly and was showing up at their houses. They said when they tried to talk to him about her, he would get mad at them and tell them it was none of their business and they didn't understand how much she loved him.. Their take was they quit calling and asking him to do anything because it was always a hassle to have to deal with her.
And then there was me trying to talk to him about it. I was trying to explain that men and women needed friends too, and that being able to go do something without the other, should be an enjoyable time for both of them. As long as he was spending plenty of time with her, everybody needed a "boys time" and "girls time" or just some "alone time". And that although he might think it was cute and loving now, later on, he would come to resent it. And that went over like a ton of bricks, because now I was lumped in with his friends...I just didn't understand.
I hope you are right Pen. I hope that means he is waking up some and realizing he needs his friends too.
These were friends he had had since he was 5 and they were very hurt that he would just drop them that way.
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on February 17, 2011, 10:24:03 AM
@Pooh, somehow I had missed your response about your DIL. She really does sound like a piece of work. I definitely understand why you say she is controlling. Non of the young marrieds that I know are like this, so I have never witnessed it first hand. So sorry that you have to go through this. How long have they been married? Any chance he is going to leave her? He obviously sees that he is isolated from the other people that he cares about.
They dated for two years, and have been married for a little over a year. I am not sure if he does see it. Hard for me to say that, as I know how smart he is, but I seriously think he thinks she does it out of love.
I think people think it's okay for spouses to act like that, especially early on in marriage. I know I did a lot of things I shouldn't have when we first got married, and so did DH. I think he may get sick of that, Pooh. Maybe it just hasn't come to a head yet.
Yes honeymooners move past that stage eventually and come back into themselves.. at least we can hope.
So a little over 3 years... The novelty of that will wear off soon. Sounds like it has started. Maybe he thought she'd "ease up" after they got married. I think you'll be able to ride this out. He will probably leave her. She sounds terribly high-maintenance.
Any kids? Hopefully not. Don't want to have that in the middle of a separation/divorce. She sounds like she would be an awful mother and future MILFH lol
Quote from: holliberri on February 17, 2011, 10:37:51 AM
I think people think it's okay for spouses to act like that, especially early on in marriage.
Dang! I let DH have his "guy time" I should put an end to that! ROFL
Quote from: Laurie on February 17, 2011, 10:39:05 AM
Yes honeymooners move past that stage eventually and come back into themselves.. at least we can hope.
Our honeymoon was over before it began! lol
I think he will too Holli. I think many of the things we found cute in the beginning, turn out to be the hardest to take later. I remember that one of the things that drew me to my first husband was his reckless spirit. I had always done the right thing and his bad-boyness gave me some excitement. A few years and kids later, his reckless spirit kept us in financial trouble and jobless too often. I hated it then.
And just for the record, I don't wish for them to get divorced. My wish is they will both grow up and mature, and learn.
Quote from: Pooh on February 17, 2011, 10:43:24 AM
And just for the record, I don't wish for them to get divorced. My wish is they will both grow up and mature, and learn.
I agree it is better to not get divorced, but she sounds like she could have narcissitic personality disorder. she might not be able to "grow up and mature." Sorry, divorce is a bit "gloomy." I try to plan for the worst and hope for the best. :-) The best being that she comes around. Does she have any friends of her own? Does she do anything by herself?
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on February 17, 2011, 10:40:42 AM
So a little over 3 years... The novelty of that will wear off soon. Sounds like it has started. Maybe he thought she'd "ease up" after they got married. I think you'll be able to ride this out. He will probably leave her. She sounds terribly high-maintenance.
Any kids? Hopefully not. Don't want to have that in the middle of a separation/divorce. She sounds like she would be an awful mother and future MILFH lol
Quote from: holliberri on February 17, 2011, 10:37:51 AM
I think people think it's okay for spouses to act like that, especially early on in marriage.
Dang! I let DH have his "guy time" I should put an end to that! ROFL
No kids yet. And oh my...I don't even want to imagine what kind of MIL she will make! Lol.
Don't you dare put an end to that "guy time"...you are a good wife!!!!!!
Quote from: Pooh on February 17, 2011, 10:47:32 AM
Don't you dare put an end to that "guy time"...you are a good wife!!!!!!
LOL I won't. Although I don't relish the thought of his upcoming guy weekend. :( I will definitely miss him and really don't want him to go, but it is a good opportunity for him to spend time with his dad and brothers..... I won't even get a good night text because there is no signal there. Bummer.....
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on February 17, 2011, 10:47:13 AM
Quote from: Pooh on February 17, 2011, 10:43:24 AM
And just for the record, I don't wish for them to get divorced. My wish is they will both grow up and mature, and learn.
I agree it is better to not get divorced, but she sounds like she could have narcissitic personality disorder. she might not be able to "grow up and mature." Sorry, divorce is a bit "gloomy." I try to plan for the worst and hope for the best. :-) The best being that she comes around. Does she have any friends of her own? Does she do anything by herself?
No, she has no friends. Her maid of honor was one of her co-workers she had known six months. Isn't that sad? And I did know what you meant. I don't see her changing as I do think it has always been her personality, but I can hold out hope she can change if she wants to????
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on February 17, 2011, 10:52:34 AM
Quote from: Pooh on February 17, 2011, 10:47:32 AM
Don't you dare put an end to that "guy time"...you are a good wife!!!!!!
LOL I won't. Although I don't relish the thought of his upcoming guy weekend. :( I will definitely miss him and really don't want him to go, but it is a good opportunity for him to spend time with his dad and brothers..... I won't even get a good night text because there is no signal there. Bummer.....
I understand. I hate when mine is gone and miss him terribly. But it is good for them, just like I could go for a girl's weekend somewhere and he would miss me, but would be all for it.
then it's on a WWU cruise .. you pick the destination.. a girls week out.. whoo hoo
No, she has no friends. Her maid of honor was one of her co-workers she had known six months. Isn't that sad? And I did know what you meant. I don't see her changing as I do think it has always been her personality, but I can hold out hope she can change if she wants to????
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Oh My! No friends at all?! That makes me soooo sad. Makes me want to give her a hug, of course she would probably mace me. lol....... It doesn't really surprise me though. Awwwwwwwww, I feel so badly for her. She needs to get herself a life. Some friends, hobbies, a cat anything. :-(
I would feel sorry for her, but I think she runs people off. Ok, here's something I haven't told you guys. I was one of her sports coaches in all 4 of her High School years! This was before they ever started dating, and she was a pain to coach because she knew better than anyone, and the girls on the team couldn't stand her attitude. Funny thing was, she seem to respect me as a coach and we got along fine during those years.
Quote from: Pooh on February 17, 2011, 11:28:48 AM
I would feel sorry for her, but I think she runs people off. Ok, here's something I haven't told you guys. I was one of her sports coaches in all 4 of her High School years! This was before they ever started dating, and she was a pain to coach because she knew better than anyone, and the girls on the team couldn't stand her attitude. Funny thing was, she seem to respect me as a coach and we got along fine during those years.
Maybe if you told her to run the poles, she'd appreciate you more
Quote from: Laurie on February 17, 2011, 11:36:47 AM
Quote from: Pooh on February 17, 2011, 11:28:48 AM
I would feel sorry for her, but I think she runs people off. Ok, here's something I haven't told you guys. I was one of her sports coaches in all 4 of her High School years! This was before they ever started dating, and she was a pain to coach because she knew better than anyone, and the girls on the team couldn't stand her attitude. Funny thing was, she seem to respect me as a coach and we got along fine during those years.
Maybe if you told her to run the poles, she'd appreciate you more
It wasn't softball Laurie! Lol.
Ahhh I see you've had to run the poles a few times :)
Oh yeah...I have done more than my fair share. I was the youths bowling coach for 6 years and then the girls High School bowling coach for 6 years. That was the sport I coached her in.
Quote from: Pooh on February 17, 2011, 12:00:00 PM
Oh yeah...I have done more than my fair share. I was the youths bowling coach for 6 years and then the girls High School bowling coach for 6 years. That was the sport I coached her in.
bowling.. you had bowling in high school... we had a surfing club
Lol. No beaches around here so no surfing club.
Quote from: Pooh on February 17, 2011, 10:43:24 AM
I think he will too Holli. I think many of the things we found cute in the beginning, turn out to be the hardest to take later. I remember that one of the things that drew me to my first husband was his reckless spirit. I had always done the right thing and his bad-boyness gave me some excitement. A few years and kids later, his reckless spirit kept us in financial trouble and jobless too often. I hated it then.
And just for the record, I don't wish for them to get divorced. My wish is they will both grow up and mature, and learn.
I don't think they need to get divorced, and I don't think she has a personality disorder. Insecure, maybe, and most certainly a little maturity would do them good.
I actually was never ever allowed to call boys (thanks, Dad), so of course when I turned 18, I alienated a lot of men I was dating b/c I was calling them all the time. I realized this wasn't working in my favor...so next time around, I figured I'd never call at all.
Of course, next time around was when I began dating DH. I wouldn't even call him back (I can't imagine how many dates I must've missed out on by not returning calls). He said he thought it was great. He loved that I was independent, and let him be too. Then came marriage. I still never called him back. He didn't love it so much, then. I'm not sure what I was thinking, it just worked so well that it quickly became a bad habit for me. I'm better now, but still not great. It just isn't instinctive for me to call/return calls anymore, and he rewarded me a lot at first by always calling me anyway. That was a big mistake of mine early on.
Quote from: holliberri on February 17, 2011, 03:58:07 PM
Quote from: Pooh on February 17, 2011, 10:43:24 AM
I think he will too Holli. I think many of the things we found cute in the beginning, turn out to be the hardest to take later. I remember that one of the things that drew me to my first husband was his reckless spirit. I had always done the right thing and his bad-boyness gave me some excitement. A few years and kids later, his reckless spirit kept us in financial trouble and jobless too often. I hated it then.
And just for the record, I don't wish for them to get divorced. My wish is they will both grow up and mature, and learn.
I don't think they need to get divorced, and I don't think she has a personality disorder. Insecure, maybe, and most certainly a little maturity would do them good.
I actually was never ever allowed to call boys (thanks, Dad), so of course when I turned 18, I alienated a lot of men I was dating b/c I was calling them all the time. I realized this wasn't working in my favor...so next time around, I figured I'd never call at all.
Of course, next time around was when I began dating DH. I wouldn't even call him back (I can't imagine how many dates I must've missed out on by not returning calls). He said he thought it was great. He loved that I was independent, and let him be too. Then came marriage. I still never called him back. He didn't love it so much, then. I'm not sure what I was thinking, it just worked so well that it quickly became a bad habit for me. I'm better now, but still not great. It just isn't instinctive for me to call/return calls anymore, and he rewarded me a lot at first by always calling me anyway. That was a big mistake of mine early on.
I think she is very insecure, and I think her Mother still bosses her around and tells her what to do, so now she thinks it's ok to do to everyone else. Her way or no way. She does have something that has been diagnosed by a doctor, but I truly don't know what it is, because I don't ask (the whole none of my business thing). The only reason I know that something even exists is when they were dating, DS said something about her being on medication, and that she had been for a long time. He said to me at another time, that he can tell when she hasn't been taking it right.
Good grief are you guys talking about my DIL again???? lol My son has no more friends left since she ran them all off. They couldn't stand her anyway. The only friends they have now is her family basically, except for a friend here and there that disappears very quickly after they get to know her. Sad. DIL got mad when it was suggested to her that she should maybe take meds since doctor had told her parents when she was a teenager that she was bipolar, and there are meds to help that. DIL said, and I quote "I am NOT bipolar, he said I was manic depressive!!!". HELLO??????? She sure has no problem rushing to the doctor for Xanax "for her anxiety", or very strong pills to help her "sleep", or the other pills for "pain". Nope, there is nothing wrong with that gal! It is strange how our sons change isn't it? He can't be out of her sight without a zillion texts coming. He is totally out of his FOO's life now, and they moved right in with her family of course. My son used to get "alone time"...when he took 5 or 6 loads of laundry to his grandmothers on his day off and toted 2 small kids with him so DIL (stay at home mom) could rest and have a break. Oh, guess he wasn't alone then huh? Sorry to sound so cranky today ladies. I am usually just fine, but once in a while I have a bad day. Last week was one of grandaughters birthdays, and once again our family was totally excluded since they cut us out last summer. Can you say CONTROL???? Now that I have vented I feel much better. I have a birthday party to attend tomorrow for a dear GS, and I am looking forward to that. That thought cheers me up a lot! But next week his family is moving away and I will see them much less. Maybe that is really why I feel down? Blessings to all of you great ladies here.
Thinking of you, JF, and sending love...
Have a great time tomorrow Jane! We will be there with you smiling :)
Jane... is this the grandson that lived with you for a while? I think about that little boy so often.. not that I'm sure why... I just sense a sadness within that child and a loss of his childhood and innocence.... Give him a hug from all of us.. that little guy deserves it...
No Laurie, this is a different GS! lol The one you are thinking of is 7 years old. I do think of him daily of course, and miss him. His mother (my DD) has been less than stable all of his life. And that's an understatement. Last week I got a call concerning this childs father, my ex son-in-law. It seems he is in a mental ward after trying to commit suicide by injecting a large amount of drugs. He is an addict, and has no contact with his children at this time because he is such a mess. Very sad, but he has to choose to make the choices to help himself. I don't know why his relatives called me, I am not a professional and do not know how to "fix" him, and it really isn't my place anyway. I wish him the best, and that's all I can do really. Like I said in another post today, it has been an overwhelming month for me. I had to apologize for my grouchy mood. I am not a perfect person and I know we all have bad days once in a while. I guess today was my day. I do plan to enjoy seeing the two grandchildren I will see tomorrow. I guess knowing they will be moving out of state next week has upset me a bit, but their mom and I get along great and I understand she has to do what is best for them. (job situation). My DS (the biological father) also understands and they plan to work together to make sure visits are regular etc. They work together and compromise, how great that is! Especially for children involved. I bought GS a video camera (mini) and camera all in one so he can take lots of photos and have his mom put them on computer for me. His little sister (my GD that is not biological, but is not aware of that, and I love her just as much) will love posing for him! She is a darling 3 year old with lots of energy! Thanks for your nice reply, you gals are wonderful.
Jane.. that's why I make all my days grump then people can say oh that's just how Laurie always is :) saves having to apologize for confusion
Laurie you are so funny! ;D It stinks when you have to apologize for being crabby, but I just have to vent once in a while and then I feel bad for having a poor attitude. I try to have a positive outlook, but we all have a point where we are at our limit don't we? I just don't like to be that way. Staying angry or carrying a grudge does not help at all. It only makes ME unhappy! I have to try to keep a positive attitude since the GC I am raising deserves to live in a happy home, and she feels so safe and secure which is as it should be. I appreciate all of your posts and also those of most women here. My sweet husband just fixed a tasty dinner and my spirits are better now. You are all great ladies!