Just my thoughts. I really miss this site and the "feeling" that used to be here. We invited the DIL's here (and wisely so) to help us, help them, help all of us awaken to a new outlook in our own relationships. I saw "miracle" possibilities here. What happened to us? What happened to the understanding and supportive site I loved so well and looked forward to each day? Can nobody tame their own tongue long enough to listen? All of us have something to say, but I truly believe listening is the real secret...
Please leave your ideas here. I'm sure there are many good ones. Can we tweak them and come up with some things to help us hold our tempers?
Have you ever noticed that when you hold your temper, the next day things aren't as bad as they appeared???
Coco I'm so glad you've come back, you really are a "hero" member. If it weren't for your willingness to listen and understand, I am sure there would be less dils here. I'm just sorry at what it took for you to come back.
In my work I study people and their behavior and come to conclusions based upon a limited amount of knowledge. These conclusions form the basis of the actions I take for resource deployment, which leads to apprehensions and prosecutions if I do my job right. I have to weigh up the scenarios I am presented, ask the right questions and lives depend on me doing what I do and I am very good at it.
That is probably why I tend to appear interrogative and why I persist in seeing two sides to every story. I tend to go for the "jugular" in my quest to get to the nitty gritty of a situation. I'm sorry if that is off putting to some, I can see how it could be and I will try and temper my responses.
I do however, believe I have something to offer here.
This site is too precious to lose. I think we all need to see the readers here as human beings just like us with legitimate feelings & issues. We need to use a polite and kind tone when addressing each other.
Disgruntled DIL have so many site to choose from... We MIL's have very few options. I have wanted to keep this a MIL bashing free zone. A place where we can complain about out DIL's and get the support we(as MIL's) desperately need. If that is not always warm and fuzzy...be it.
Just My 2 cents
We can all understand each other peacefully if we use "Wise Women Unite" for the reasons it was created, in the spirit in which it was created, to discuss actual relationships, and how love and understanding can heal them, and/or heal our hearts. As they say, keep it real.
I don't understand using this site as a platform to create manufactured drama among strangers.
I really don't understand creating manufactured drama elsewhere and using this site to basically throw a pity party lamenting how cruel a day's work creating the hate drama
elsewhere has been.
Support is support. I, and probably 99% of the women here, are willing to help anyone heal a wound, if they can think of a way to do it.
But this place is not a litter box, and don't ask us to help bury your droppings.
For a few days I tried to remember "if you don't like what someone posted, just pass on replying" and kept coming back here hoping to spot a clear space to work through some REAL (not manufactured stranger) issues. Now I feel like maybe if I spoke up earlier when I saw the droppings, and Luise's directives being trampled on, it wouldn't have come to this.
Quote from: penstamen on April 14, 2010, 01:31:55 AM
This site is too precious to lose. I think we all need to see the readers here as human beings just like us with legitimate feelings & issues. We need to use a polite and kind tone when addressing each other.
Thank you so much Pen. That's the thing that I agree with so much. I hate to see this site being so negative. Can't we "strive" to be understanding toward all our members here? We are all mothers. That is a commonality we all share and a very loving and respectful one too.
This site has changed and evolved into what it is now and I felt we were laying an understanding foundation. We were a MIL site. Luise changed the name of this site because she saw the evolution taking place and believed it was a very wise direction. I agree with that and I was proud to see the "very wise" change. I left because I felt I was being unfairly attacked and blamed for things that "were not me." I do believe this is still a site for MIL's, but we have added DIL's, FIL's and even Martians (stole that from you clover!) to our group. I see that as an expansion of who we were, and something to be proud of. Progress... This is where I felt we were better, different from the other site, and most of the time (at least for me) I find when I stop looking for trouble, it escapes me. When I change my view (I call it changing my mind) and begin striving to see everyone in a positive and accepting way, I become more accepting in their eyes. And when I really try to understand someone, it usually works. Amazing...
We have something offered that no other site has - MIL's and DIL's who can all come together and discuss their views respectfully and caringly. I believe that can be a solid foundation. "The other site" does have some women there who are confrontational with MIL's. But we have the reverse side of the coin. If all the women at WWU found a common ground and addressed eachother with nothing more than the "effort" of respect and understanding, we would be much more ahead of the e-world, and I believe we would have the safe and understanding place we once did, only with more perspectives and views to understand. To me that means someone, somewhere is going to have the perspective that is helpful to me! And what a miracle that is. The other site does portray bad pictures and words in association with MIL's. I would ask everyone on WWU why on earth we would want to become those horrible things they portray? Aren't we claiming we are better because of our understanding and compassion? I'm somewhere in the middle here and not sure anymore that I lean on any side except the side of being human. Yes that's it - I am on the side of human beings.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but cant' we strive to be positive and caring with our responses? Telling me I don't have problems because I have a daughter is disrespectful to me, and I took that as a slap. Especially in light of the problems I've had with her. More women are coming through with daughter's. Why are so many writing PM's to me instead of posting?
I don't want this to be a site for "Just mother's of sons," or Just mother's who don't want DIL's around so they can vent. I thought we outgrew that? Did we? Can we invite DIL's or mother's of daughter's sincerely and with honesty?
I'm sorry this is so long winded. What I'm trying to say is that we need everyone here and disrepecting eachother, backbiting or steering through PM's isn't helping us as the support group we claim to be. It is hindering our growth as a whole. Can we make an agreement to say "ONLY" positive things in our replies? If we don't agree with someone, skip that topic and move to the next. It's not as if we don't have enough things here to discuss, but we have everyone here that we love and don't want to hurt, right?
Quote from: Postscript on April 14, 2010, 12:17:52 AM
Coco I'm so glad you've come back, you really are a "hero" member. If it weren't for your willingness to listen and understand, I am sure there would be less dils here. I'm just sorry at what it took for you to come back.
In my work I study people and their behavior and come to conclusions based upon a limited amount of knowledge. These conclusions form the basis of the actions I take for resource deployment, which leads to apprehensions and prosecutions if I do my job right. I have to weigh up the scenarios I am presented, ask the right questions and lives depend on me doing what I do and I am very good at it.
That is probably why I tend to appear interrogative and why I persist in seeing two sides to every story. I tend to go for the "jugular" in my quest to get to the nitty gritty of a situation. I'm sorry if that is off putting to some, I can see how it could be and I will try and temper my responses.
I do however, believe I have something to offer here.
Postscript, thank you for the compliment. I just wanted to add that I believe the fact that you do have the ability to see "too sides to every story" may be extremely helpful here at this site! Maybe not "going for the jugular" though! LOL! I've been impressed with your understanding and support here and I hope you will hang in and continue to help us, and help you in that process.
I hope everyone will, and I believe if every woman here tries, we can get that back.
I agree with every thing you say Coco,when i first found this site i was overwhelmed with appreciation.I couldn't believe the compassion and understanding i found here,just what i truely needed.
I haven't been posting in a while,i have been just reading and not responding.I have been busy with other things,but felt this site had changed,just didn't understand what happened.
This site has been a blessing for so many,i know it has been for me.
Two things happened that pretty much poisoned everything:
-- Despite numerous requests to never do it again, a woman here bashed a post from "the other site".
-- Practically in the same breath, same woman posted a message intended to do nothing but bait the posters at the aforementioned other site.
Then cried victim when, not surprisingly, posters from the other site were offended and reacted in such a way.
So, to answer your question:
-Understand that LOTS of people have IL problems as well as family problems and they need to do whatever is necessary to cope with that, including but not limited to cut off.
-Don't drag posts from other sites here.
-Don't post inflammatory messages there.
-And if you do post such messages there, don't act surprised and baffled and claim you meant no harm. That's like jumping into a lake and getting mad you got wet.
In the course of our lives, no one but no one, is going to be able to live up to our expectations and do, say and be who we think they should be. I've been trying so hard to relay this message.
Personally, and, I shouldn't have to say this, however, I will again...I mean no one here any insult...not one iota, and please I'm begging you, work with me here...Coco, you have left this site 3 times, once because I wrote you and asked you if I did something wrong, and I asked you if you were taking my posts in a negative manner, because I thought you were replying in a negative manner...that's all, I wanted to work with you, and I wasn't angry hurt or anything, simply asking you if, and why and suggested that maybe I was wrong.
I honestly do not see any negativity here...honest I don't, and I'm pleading with you to understand, we must all understand, no one is going to say what we want them to say all of the time...sometimes, they may say things that hurt our feelings, and they don't mean to, that is simply the way they are...and no one here is going to be able to say things that please you all of the time...this is a support forum and everyone is going to have different opinions...sometimes people are going to say things in anger, fear, hurt, whatever...and you have to learn to let it simply roll off our backs sometimes, instead of limping out like a wounded puppy dog and not come back for a couple of days.
The other two times you left coco, I honest, and truthfully do not know why you left...these things are small things and if we all want to get along, and make this site a success, this is going to have to stop...we're going to have to stop taking everything so darn personally and stop, getting hurt if someone doesn't agree with everything we say or questions something we say....
I mean, it's getting to the point that I'm afraid to post for fear someone is going to not agree and either quit the forum, like I've been told people did, b/c of what or how I write, or huff off hurt and post things that are magnificed, in a fit of anger and hurt.
Now I'm sorry, very sorry if anyone's feelings are hurt here, I am...but if you really want this site to work, your going to have to understand, not everyone is going to agree with you all the time, and sometimes people are going to say things that your not going to like, and might even hurt, but we're all going to have to grow thicker skin and stop this foolishness.....
if you go to a counselor for help, he/she is not going to tell you what you want to hear, but the truth...and when you post something, people are going to tell you the truth of they're feelings...it doesn't mean, they meant to slap you in the face, they are simply stating, that, perhaps you don't understand, b/c you don't have a daughter, or things to that affect...and maybe you don't understand, or would understand better if you had one, or if you walked in this person's shoes. I honestly don't believe coco, she meant to hurt you, but stated this matter of factly and your never going to be able to control what every one says and how they say it, but what you can do is control the way you take things...
Coco, I see you as the most significant part of the site, what more can I say...?
Yanno, Coco, I've seen one huge change in Chickie since this site opened, she tries and tries and tries very hard to not only swallow what we all say to her, which I'm certain at times, it is very very difficult for her to do...but she has never posted things like, I'm leaving, I'm not welcome here, etc....she has made an extreme amount of progress here, and I honestly coco do not see negativity here...I don't....what I do see, is that your feelings get hurt b/c someone speaks openly and honestly and you storm off....you can't do that...are we in this for the duration? For the distance or not? In any relationship, even online relationships, we are never all going to agree all of the time, and sometimes things are going to be said, that we take wrong, b/c we can't see the faces of the ones talking to us...however, just b/c this situation has happened to you coco, and the woman who challenged you was a DIL, doesn't mean what your implying...she simply defended herself the best way she could...
This type of thing is going to happen...so please, please please, don't take them personal....while we are sensitive mothers, I've seen some women in here attack DIL's who first came in, b/c they were DIL's...and if we all can't admit, that we might be wrong sometimes...then, what good will we do anyone...we are not perfect or saints just b/c we're mothers, or we were the first one here at the site, or whatever...I'm very sorry, but sometimes, I think woman can be so brutal to each other....
so, I'm sorry and I apologize, if your feelings are hurt coco, I'm not in the least bit suggesting your not welcome here, your not a good fit, or anything even close to that....you posted this thread and I'm expressing my most honest and passionate feelings, merely feelings, not anger, I mean no harm...or hurt...
Gosh, what relationship have you ever been involved in, that both parties agreed 100% all of the time?
That is not life...life is easy, we humans make it difficult...
But, what I'm saying is, please, lets go the distance together...lets not love each other when it's easy to love each other, but also when it's hard to do...lets stop taking things so personal and not be afraid to speak the truth or our hearts...b/c we fear someone is going to get hurt and leave...please, please please, this is foolishness, and so not what this forum is about...
again, I love you coco, and so does everyone else....but you've got to let go of this idea that things are negative here b/c someone spoke to you in a way you didn't like...I'm sorry you took it that way, but I think your problem should be with her, and I'm suggesting to write her and talk it over instead of disrupting the whole forum and posting these things...I don't believe this forum is negative...I believe this forum is productive and helpful and has some of the nicest people in it, I've ever met, however, from time to time, we are not going to agree, and that's it...it isn't meant to hurt anyone, what it is, is a difference of opinion.
I'm not here to have people agree with me, even if they think I'm wrong, I don't need my ego stroked...what I need is the truth...and when someone sees I'm saying or feeling something wrong, I want your support...not to side with me simply b/c of who I am, but I want the truth, even if it hurts...I don't want you to tell me what you think I want to hear...or agree with me b/c I'm wrong...I'm never going to grow or learn anything that way???? So, please lets stop this and keep moving forward and onward together....
that was yesterday, today is a new day, a new dawn, lets forget it...bringing it up like this is really adding fuel to the fire, it's over with, we can't change it but we can learn from it...please lets do that...can we?
with all my love and concern
Creme
Creme I have to agree and disagree with you. It's true that we are not all going to agree 100% of the time, it's also true that our expectations won't always be met. That's life.
I do however see Coco's point about the dismissive attitude towards mother's with daughters, it's pervasive and tiresome as is the constant refrain of oh they are all nice until they marry your son, then they'll throw you away, it's all over give up now. It's off putting and doesn't encourage open minded discussion. It would be the same as me saying, Oh you are a mil with dil problems, you wouldn't understand! We all know that is not a true statement because I have received a lot of understanding, because once you understand my backstory, you don't see me as a daughter in law, you see me as a human being who has been treated badly.
As I see it, we all need to make a conscious effort to deal with the problem at hand, not the position in the family involved.
I agree with you as far as honesty goes, Creme. Sometimes people will say things we don't like, but when they are said with compassion and understanding, then those statements are usually accepted more readily and can be discussed. I believe the PM you are referencing was lecturing me for expressing a difference in my view - because it didn't align with what you had said. I won't go into the jest of what was said in those posts here, but this is exactly what I'm talking about. If we are throwing blame at eachother, where are our members going to go, and will they stay? But if we can find a place to understand and agree, then that's where I believe the changes can start. I have to tell you that you may be right about Chickie not knowing how hurtful that was (then), but I did notice that I wasn't the only MIL who felt insulted. I had been listening to the same comment for awhile and saw that it wasn't going t change. The fact remains that pain is pain, and if someone here is going to disregard someone else's situation and make it insignificant (and that's how I felt), then I saw no reason to continue. If the effort to be tactful and caring that is put in to many posts here, were also included in personal messages, then that problem may not exist. It is exactly where I stand, and when I could see that I was being blamed for things I had not done, then yes - it was too much drama and I left. Why would we do this to eachother? Why would I stay for the "more" I felt may be down the road. When I left did anything improve or did it get worse?
I would welcome working with anyone here on this site in a loving and caring way. If we can't be loving and caring first, then our honesty will fall on deaf ears. That's just my take and I realize it's not everyones.
Respect is truly a two way street. In all honesty, did you expect me to stay and take more? When I feel I'm being shown the exit, I usually follow through. I'm not too hard to get rid of, and it took some emails and PM's before I would come back. If that's something you disagree with, so be it.
I have read some very negative things. At least they were to me. I don't feel I was alone, no matter who tries to tell me I was. Those are my thoughts and I just can't stand seeing this place torn to shreds like this.
Creme, maybe you should read ALL the posts from last night, so you will understand at what point I came in. I want us to respect eachother and I was very upset that Luise was in such a hard place for her and the women here hadn't even thought of her. Even after she requested the arguing to stop. She doesn't need all the arguing, but understanding right now, and this bickering is just selfish in my opinion.
Maybe we can all find a place of understanding that isn't coming across as an attack. Whether that is for me, a DIL or a martian. This would be nice, wouldn't it?
I'm not suggesting that anyone leave. I'm suggesting that we have some respect and compassion for eachother. This isn't about me, but about this site. I don't believe it has anything to do with me leaving or how many times you have counted. Yes, I left and took some well deserved breathers. It may not be the last time...
Anyway, getting back to the purpose of this post, I feel it's important to hear everyone's feelings (everyone). I also feel that if we are all trying, then we will get there. I'm not expecting everything to be rosey all the time, but I do see that as a "new site called Wise Women Unite" we have to grow a little more as a group. There will always be women who will be stuck in places that they need to be in, but what I would like to see is that the other women are allowed to grow and expand too! That means everyone. It isn't about me.
I guess what I'm asking is, what would it take for everyone here to accept all of the perceptions we have now as a group? Even the ones we are not comfortable delving into?
Quote from: Postscript on April 14, 2010, 07:27:41 AM
Creme I have to agree and disagree with you. It's true that we are not all going to agree 100% of the time, it's also true that our expectations won't always be met. That's life.
I do however see Coco's point about the dismissive attitude towards mother's with daughters, it's pervasive and tiresome as is the constant refrain of oh they are all nice until they marry your son, then they'll throw you away, it's all over give up now. It's off putting and doesn't encourage open minded discussion. It would be the same as me saying, Oh you are a mil with dil problems, you wouldn't understand! We all know that is not a true statement because I have received a lot of understanding, because once you understand my backstory, you don't see me as a daughter in law, you see me as a human being who has been treated badly.
As I see it, we all need to make a conscious effort to deal with the problem at hand, not the position in the family involved.
Hi Postscript...thanks so much for your honesty...
I'd like to offer something if I may and this is for everyone...not all DIL's are bad people, and not all MIL's are bad people...however, I have noticed in this forum, people are not called upon when they post in general....I have been really reamed about doing that in other forums...it's a habit I have when I'm typing, to lazy to type, not all MIL's or DIL's are like this, or, I'm speaking in general...and I don't mean it to sound like all DIL's or MIL's. I would hope, that we all know each other enough now, to understand, that when someone types that, they don't mean all DIL's are rotton, and when a DIL types in general, she doesn't mean she believes all MIL's are rotten...
am I making myself clear, I don't know if you'll understand what I'm trying to say here....but, we must not let things like that get to us...by thinking the author of the post really does believe all DIL's or MIL's are horrible people, they are not...
I hope as time goes by, we understand that....all of us...when we type we make typos and mistakes....however, another example of something small turning into something big...
I don't mean to make your complaint sound unimportant...and hope you see where I'm coming from....
yanno, it's all about perspectives, and how we view situations I think? I know this was the case with my DIL...I cannot speak for her, but I can speak for me, and I know how I blew things way out of porportion, b/c of the sensitivity of the hurt and my very own perceptions...we perceived things wrong a lot of times....a lot of times...b/c we don't think and feel like anyone else, but what we as individuals know, how we grew up to believe...
I really didn't want to post in this thread, b/c I'm scared, scared that someone is going to take this wrong and become hurt, then angry and leave...I've been told that people have left this forum b/c of me, b/c I'm so straight forward and speak the truth of what I feel...I am as everyone else is very passionate about my beliefs...however, I really try not to allow little things bother me...and a lot of this stuff is small compared to lets say, an incurrable illness...we must learn to let things roll off our backs a little, unless someone really makes a personal attack...we also must remember, that when some people come in here, they are afraid, very afraid, but want to participate in the worst way, so they may sound defensive and aloof at first...lets try to understand that...and I'm not just talking to you, but everyone of us, lets practice and learn patience together, and remember, the only way we're going to learn is by listening, really listening and not getting hurt by the posts of others or take those posts as a personal attack against us...they are not meant that way...what it is, is, two people disagreeing....
I don't mean to make your complaint sound unimportant...and hope you see where I'm coming from....
I'm sorry but I don't see where you are coming from. It all just sounds like a roundabout way of excusing thoughtless behavior on the part of a small minority. I could be wrong and I am sure if I am, someone will tell me. A concern has been expressed. I think the best way forward is to acknowledge it and undertake to try and ensure it doesn't continue.
Those who ignore history are bound to repeat it, so they say and to the best of my experience, the saying is true. We now have an opportunity to reset and to carry on to participate in Luise's vision of what this forum should be. I would like to do that and if having a little discussion about how we best set about it is the way to achieve that vision, I'm happy to participate.
I really would like that too.
Quote from: coco on April 14, 2010, 07:54:26 AM
I'm not suggesting that anyone leave. I'm suggesting that we have some respect and compassion for eachother. This isn't about me, but about this site. I don't believe it has anything to do with me leaving or how many times you have counted. Yes, I left and took some well deserved breathers. It may not be the last time...
Anyway, getting back to the purpose of this post, I feel it's important to hear everyone's feelings (everyone). I also feel that if we are all trying, then we will get there. I'm not expecting everything to be rosey all the time, but I do see that as a "new site called Wise Women Unite" we have to grow a little more as a group. There will always be women who will be stuck in places that they need to be in, but what I would like to see is that the other women are allowed to grow and expand too! That means everyone. It isn't about me.
I guess what I'm asking is, what would it take for everyone here to accept all of the perceptions we have now as a group? Even the ones we are not comfortable delving into?
No coco, I didn't say you suggested that anyone leave, and yes, it is about you, it must be or you wouldn't have posted this thread....and yes it does have to do with you leaving...when you leave, you always post something about that your leaving, your not welcome here, or something to that effect...then when you come back, you bring up what the reason was for your leaving...you had a disagreement with another member, that's all, nothing more...so why leave? Why not stick it out...we need you here, we need everyone here...to make a team...and it is so important to work together as team members who are going to disagree once in a while.
Suppose, I have a problem again, and I don't understand something your wrote, and if I write you and ask you agin, is it me, or are you upset with me? Are you going to get all upset again and leave, b/c you think I'm saying your not welcome here? I want to be your friend coco...not someone who is going to worry about upseting you, and you leave...or others leave, b/c I might type out something that you take as an insult, but isn't meant that way....this is about you coco, and I don't know what you mean by the rest of your post, as I don't understand it...I am asking if we can just learn from this thread and go forward, and drop all of this...I don't believe this forum is any more negative then when it first opened...I think it is wonderful, as are all the women here, including you. Coco, you are an asset to this forum...you are part of the whole...without you, it is not...without Chickie, it is not...we are all a team...however, we all view things differently and we're all going to have to understand, you don't quit and walk out b/c someone challenges you or asks you why your posts to me, seem so negative....
I just think to bring this all up stirs people up, makes them feel uneasy and adds more fuel to the fire....? Maybe I'm wrong...sheesh, I have surely misread a lot of things, however, do you really think it's important to stir up the pot again....? Or, would it be better to just let some of this stuff go, and move on? And I'm asking you cocoa, b/c I really am having a problem understanding the reasons for all of this, and would like to discuss it...
Just my thoughts
Respectfully
Creme
Quote from: coco on April 14, 2010, 05:55:39 AM
Quote from: penstamen on April 14, 2010, 01:31:55 AM
This site is too precious to lose. I think we all need to see the readers here as human beings just like us with legitimate feelings & issues. We need to use a polite and kind tone when addressing each other.
Thank you so much Pen. That's the thing that I agree with so much. I hate to see this site being so negative. Can't we "strive" to be understanding toward all our members here? We are all mothers. That is a commonality we all share and a very loving and respectful one too.
This site has changed and evolved into what it is now and I felt we were laying an understanding foundation. We were a MIL site. Luise changed the name of this site because she saw the evolution taking place and believed it was a very wise direction. I agree with that and I was proud to see the "very wise" change. I left because I felt I was being unfairly attacked and blamed for things that "were not me." I do believe this is still a site for MIL's, but we have added DIL's, FIL's and even Martians (stole that from you clover!) to our group. I see that as an expansion of who we were, and something to be proud of. Progress... This is where I felt we were better, different from the other site, and most of the time (at least for me) I find when I stop looking for trouble, it escapes me. When I change my view (I call it changing my mind) and begin striving to see everyone in a positive and accepting way, I become more accepting in their eyes. And when I really try to understand someone, it usually works. Amazing...
We have something offered that no other site has - MIL's and DIL's who can all come together and discuss their views respectfully and caringly. I believe that can be a solid foundation. "The other site" does have some women there who are confrontational with MIL's. But we have the reverse side of the coin. If all the women at WWU found a common ground and addressed eachother with nothing more than the "effort" of respect and understanding, we would be much more ahead of the e-world, and I believe we would have the safe and understanding place we once did, only with more perspectives and views to understand. To me that means someone, somewhere is going to have the perspective that is helpful to me! And what a miracle that is. The other site does portray bad pictures and words in association with MIL's. I would ask everyone on WWU why on earth we would want to become those horrible things they portray? Aren't we claiming we are better because of our understanding and compassion? I'm somewhere in the middle here and not sure anymore that I lean on any side except the side of being human. Yes that's it - I am on the side of human beings.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but cant' we strive to be positive and caring with our responses? Telling me I don't have problems because I have a daughter is disrespectful to me, and I took that as a slap. Especially in light of the problems I've had with her. More women are coming through with daughter's. Why are so many writing PM's to me instead of posting?
I don't want this to be a site for "Just mother's of sons," or Just mother's who don't want DIL's around so they can vent. I thought we outgrew that? Did we? Can we invite DIL's or mother's of daughter's sincerely and with honesty?
I'm sorry this is so long winded. What I'm trying to say is that we need everyone here and disrepecting eachother, backbiting or steering through PM's isn't helping us as the support group we claim to be. It is hindering our growth as a whole. Can we make an agreement to say "ONLY" positive things in our replies? If we don't agree with someone, skip that topic and move to the next. It's not as if we don't have enough things here to discuss, but we have everyone here that we love and don't want to hurt, right?
Coco, what may be a negative reply to you, might be a positive respond to someone else....what you have viewed in the past as negative, to me, was little stuff, real little stuff...and I'm using this as an example...not saying this to hurt you...we can only be productive if we're allowed to speak our true hearts...and sometimes our true hears ar not always going to be what you want to hear...sorry, but you cannot dictate to others how to think and feel....what you view as backbiting, and disrespect is merely someone expressing they're thoughts...no one is always going to agree with you 100% and if this is the case, then how will we ever learn...this is not just a group of MIL's but also DIL's who are just as important to our learning process...they have feelings and hearts to, and just b/c we are older then them, doesn't mean we know it all...we don't and never will...we will learn until the day we die....and If I can learn something from a DIL's perspective that might be a little bity when she says it, but is going to help me in the future, understand my DIL better, well, I may not like it, however, if I think about it seriously consider her thoughts, I might find out, she was right...just because I'm older, doesn't make me wiser....
Sorry to intrude but my impression was that Coco is asking for ideas of how we can all get along peacefully after the events of yesterday - not about why she left.
I have to agree with Doormat right now I'm afraid! Coco isn't stirring any pot - the only person with a big wooden spoon was Chickie! And I think she needs to own what she did and apologise for it properly without trying to excuse it and make herself the victim (as she did in her "i am sorry" post). Then it should all be forgiven and forgotten with noone leaving! As long as everyone realises what happened was wrong and it won't happen again and spoil LV's hard work in creating this beautiful forum.
We all need to speak politely to and about each other - even about the DILs on the other site. I too have lurked over there and while some posts seem over the top - some of them seem like very nice women who are struggling to cope with impossible MILs (and there are bad MILs as much as DILs). There's no need to go over there and poke the wounded DILs so nastily with a stick and expect them not to react badly to it...it's cruel and wrong.
Now I'm not a MIL - I'm a DIL. But in my family I have a very over dramatic mother and an equally over dramatic SIL - their relationship is dreadful! I try my best to get them both to speak and get along but they won't. Both are determined to cause friction and put my brother in the middle. They are both equally at fault in their actions....so I can see the MIL side as I see how impossible and controlling my SIL is and how it hurts my mom!
And I do truly agree with the idea of "if you don't like what's been posted then don't reply!". Although if you don't like what's posted but would like to ask respectfully why the other person feels that way then I see no problem....you can't beat a healthy debate but there's no need for snide digs at each other.
Without politeness and healthy debate/discussion then this board cannot grow into the family that LV hopes we can become - of MILs, DILs, FILs (and possibly even my poor brother - I would like to recommend this site to him as it may be refreshing to hear a "son in the middles" views)
Respectfully
Lola
**Editted to add* If we know something offends others e.g.: the "all DILs hate MILs" thing mentioned earlier then I think each of us should make an extra effort to stop saying those phrases that offend in the hopes of creating harmony. Surely it's worth spending a little more time thinking of others and trying not to offend!
Already I've read some statements in this thread that sound angry...I don't think there's any need to take that tone here, since a lot of our drama comes from emotional reactions to statements that sound belittling or like finger-pointing. I hesitate to quote them, but if you read back from Coco's initial post maybe you'll see what I mean. Words and tone do matter here, since we don't have the benefit of facial expressions or body language to help with communication.
When I was preparing to visit a relative overseas, I was told to leave my American sarcasm and bluntness at home since the country I would be visiting didn't "get it" and people would think I was angry all the time. I was amused at first, because I'd never thought about it - I love sarcasm (Seinfeld, for example, which they didn't appreciate) and didn't think it was a big deal. What I learned from my experience overseas was a nicer way to communicate, but it wasn't as easy as it sounds - I had to really watch the tone of everything I said at first. Maybe we need to try this here?
Blaming one person's actions for this whole mess is counter-productive. I think we all agree that if we follow Luise's guidelines this site will be the special, non-bashing, supportive place we want it to be. We're all in pain here; can we not have some compassion? Also, as Luise has said many times, this is not the place to diagnose and treat those we deem in need. If someone is spinning his or wheels, so be it...offer support, kind nudges perhaps, and let it go. They will progress at their own pace, perhaps two-steps forward and one back, but that's OK and none of our business. I often sense judgement from some posters regarding another's needs/lack of progress or insight; is there a kinder way to lend support?
Luise and Kirk would have to agree to this before implementing it, of course: If we sense it going off the rails, perhaps we can gently nudge it back on with a silly safe word like 'pickles' or 'jitterbug' as a reminder to keep it civil and non-judgemental. Just a thought :)
Quote from: Laila9 on April 14, 2010, 08:53:23 AM
Sorry to intrude but my impression was that Coco is asking for ideas of how we can all get along peacefully after the events of yesterday - not about why she left.
I have to agree with Doormat right now I'm afraid! Coco isn't stirring any pot - the only person with a big wooden spoon was Chickie! And I think she needs to own what she did and apologise for it properly without trying to excuse it and make herself the victim (as she did in her "i am sorry" post). Then it should all be forgiven and forgotten with noone leaving! As long as everyone realises what happened was wrong and it won't happen again and spoil LV's hard work in creating this beautiful forum.
We all need to speak politely to and about each other - even about the DILs on the other site. I too have lurked over there and while some posts seem over the top - some of them seem like very nice women who are struggling to cope with impossible MILs (and there are bad MILs as much as DILs). There's no need to go over there and poke the wounded DILs so nastily with a stick and expect them not to react badly to it...it's cruel and wrong.
Now I'm not a MIL - I'm a DIL. But in my family I have a very over dramatic mother and an equally over dramatic SIL - their relationship is dreadful! I try my best to get them both to speak and get along but they won't. Both are determined to cause friction and put my brother in the middle. They are both equally at fault in their actions....so I can see the MIL side as I see how impossible and controlling my SIL is and how it hurts my mom!
And I do truly agree with the idea of "if you don't like what's been posted then don't reply!". Although if you don't like what's posted but would like to ask respectfully why the other person feels that way then I see no problem....you can't beat a healthy debate but there's no need for snide digs at each other.
Without politeness and healthy debate/discussion then this board cannot grow into the family that LV hopes we can become - of MILs, DILs, FILs (and possibly even my poor brother - I would like to recommend this site to him as it may be refreshing to hear a "son in the middles" views)
Respectfully
Lola
**Editted to add* If we know something offends others e.g.: the "all DILs hate MILs" thing mentioned earlier then I think each of us should make an extra effort to stop saying those phrases that offend in the hopes of creating harmony. Surely it's worth spending a little more time thinking of others and trying not to offend!
Thank you Lola....while I understand, that coco is asking for ideas how we can all get along peacefully, that was the point of my posts, then I do understand...
We are not all going to agree 100% of the time, does that mean we are not getting along? Because we disagree, because we're now having this discussion, is someone going to leave? that is my point...Lola, sometime, somewhere, in the future of this forum, someone is going to post something that might hurt you, me or coco...so what do we do? Do we make a thread like this which is going to divide people, or do we ignore it and move forward together? Life is not perfect, and neither are people...and I'm going to be honest here...coco is one of the biggest assets to this forum, however, if someone writes what she doesn't like, she cannot let it get her upset, to the point of leaving...you cannot and never will dictate to people how to think and feel, sometimes people get upset and say things they don't mean...and like myself, get caught up in the moment and start pounding out words that are very direct and honest, are people going to get angry with me, for doing so? Because I'm passionate about my feelings...like everyone else? I just hope and pray, you all understand, I'm not trying to start trouble or fight coco, what I'm trying to do, is explain, that there are going to be times, when we do disagree, and someone will get hurt, however, we don't storm off after posting something about the situation in anger and not come back for a few days, and then come back and start it all over again...like this thread...b/c there is always someone who will disagree and today I disagree with coco...sorry, coco, but I do...
I don not think or never thought this forum was negative...I think it has always been very productive and helpful to me....and I loved this place...and all the woman here....
QuoteCoco
I believe the PM you are referencing was lecturing me for expressing a difference in my view - because it didn't align with what you had said. I won't go into the jest of what was said in those posts here, but this is exactly what I'm talking about.
coco, I was not lecturing you, in that DM, and I am very sorry you took it that way...I said that I noticed of late in the last few posts I made, you seemed to be leaving negative posts, or taking my post negatively and I was wondering if I had done or said someting to upset you, ..I asked you if in fact, If I might be wrong...and asked if you would let me know...that maybe I was taking it wrong???
Then you posted a thread stating that you were being told that you were negative and not not welcome here?
I'm sorry but I was not lecturing you, I was asking you to correspond with me, and that perhaps I was reading you wrong, I even said, am I?
My personal opinion is this...
if we all want to get along, I believe we should stop with these posts about any member...I consider us all sisters, and yes, sometimes we're going to make mistakes and sometimes we're going to disagree and have some problems, that what relationships are....
my personal opinion, and I could be wrong, if there is a problem that occurs, like this, I don't believe it should be made public, but kept between that poster and the owner or the site and/or the monitor of the website...or all three people involved...but to call attention, to others like this is wrong, or to start threads like this is to me, only adding fuel to the fire.
I'm sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone, or hurt anyone...
Yes, Chickie made a mistake...and I will agree with most of your posts on the points that you made...several of us have asked her to stop...but to do this, seems to me, like ganging up on her...while I understand your opinions, and sympathize...to start a thread like this is to me, so wrong and well...very hurtful...I would really really be destroyed if someone did this to me...I just don't think it's right...we're all at one time or another going to make mistakes, some of us learn, some don't...however, whose is to say, which one of our mistakes was worse then the other?
I just think this is like a pac chasing down prey...sorry ladies, but I do...it makes me very sad...
Quote from: Postscript on April 14, 2010, 08:15:43 AM
A concern has been expressed. I think the best way forward is to acknowledge it and undertake to try and ensure it doesn't continue.
Those who ignore history are bound to repeat it, so they say and to the best of my experience, the saying is true. We now have an opportunity to reset and to carry on to participate in Luise's vision of what this forum should be. I would like to do that and if having a little discussion about how we best set about it is the way to achieve that vision, I'm happy to participate.
I would like to do that - "reset." I've gotten concens from MIL's and DIL's alike and it seems to me that we are all still here for the same reasons. We seem to all have this common link - desire and compassion. I don't think it was just the DIL's who were disrespected here, but I also understand some MIL's were too. The comment was made to me that a MIL wanted to take yesterday back. She said "we can't take it back." Maybe not, but we can "reset" and move on as Postscript said in this post. I believe that was a wise thought that was worded in different ways by both a MIL and a DIL. I would like to think it's wise AND possible.
I would like to do that. I think it's possible to "reset." Can we discuss what would be necessary in our opinions to recreate some respect for us here? All of us? How can we move on without losing members on any level and become that wonderful and positive place for wise women to come and be welcomed again?
Is there a way that you can think of that everyone can accept our differences in a more positive way?
Sending out warm thoughts and hopes... I hope you feel them.
Creme, I believe we are both human and I didn't mean to upset you. I can see that in my own humaness, I misunderstood your PM's. I believe after reading all these, that we need to work on how we speak to eachother. I'm not blaming you. I'm not trying to throw blame anywhere except that we are all human and make these mistakes. We handle them in different ways. I go take a break. Some of the women here stick it out and argue it out. We're all different and I just think we need to find a way to accept that and respect eachother as much as we can.
Do I think it won't happen again? No. It most likely will, but can we all regroup and try to reset as Postscript and another MIL said? We can't take things back, but we can work on not repeating them. I will promise you that if I get another message that I feel is hurtful, then I will "ASK" first. I hope you will take this as an apology from me for misunderstanding, and help us here. I believe we are all wanting to erase yesterday. Can we try?
Sending you hugs and I hope you do feel them very much!
Creme, this isn't a thread directed at anything except to find a new place to accept and respect eachother. That's all. I didn't start this to tear up anyone else. The title is "how can we all understand eachother peacefully." It was written out of respect for the fact that everyone here wants this site to work and may have input to help us all.
I didn't mean this thread any other way. I understand your statement completely when you stated, "to start a thread like this is to me, so wrong and well...very hurtful...I would really really be destroyed if someone did this to me..." I was hurt very deeply by disregard, and two wrongs don't make a right so for that I'm sorry. Rather than rehash the same things I just want to find a common place for all of us to start over. Is that possible?
I wanted to include another comment by Creme:
"I just don't think it's right...we're all at one time or another going to make mistakes, some of us learn, some don't...however, whose is to say, which one of our mistakes was worse then the other?
I just think this is like a pac chasing down prey...sorry ladies, but I do...it makes me very sad..."
And yes it makes me sad too. This is no more right than chasing down the DIL's that I've seen. She did make a mistake and I hope we can leave it at that. I would hate to think about what would happen if people remembered me for some of my great blunders. Chickie is in counselling. I believe she is doing everything she can and just can't see holding each mistake above her head...
Chickie did a stupid thing, should be grounded,fired, arrested and put in jail? No. I have done stupider things in my time and will probably keep right on going. I do not have a right to hang anything over anyones heads. As far as the board goes, I will still come back I have enjoyed reading/posting for the past few days here and I will continue. If other people are upset perhaps they have a right to be. Live and let live. If someone has done something that is their issue and if others do not like thier own issue. No one has cussed her out or asked her to leave, they are stating how they feel just like everyone else does on this board. This is a place for everyone as far as I know. Not everyone has to agree all the time.
So we agree that we won't always agree but that we will treat each other with kindness and compassion?
Penstamen I think that's a great foundation. There are going to be times where we are not going to agree, I think on some occasions we will have to agree to disagree.
Our lives are all different, we are from different places and different cultures in some cases. I also think we need to embrace our differences too.
And yes, I do believe we can treat eachother with kindness and compassion, and agree to disagree. Understanding someone else's view doesn't always mean I agree with it, but I do like to know where they are coming from and try to understand. I hope others will do that for me too.
I agree with Laila9 and Postscript. I think Cocos post was made to stop the fighting and make peace. I think she wrote this in a constructive way and it looks like Cremebrulee is wanting to start a fight again. I am sorry Coco.
I hope this means mothers of daughters can come here too. Thank you for your concerns for me and other mothers of daughters. I hope you ladies can be kinder and more respectful. Rude comments serve no purpose and are bullyish. They are not productive.
I think this site has the potential to grow into a great site with the inclusion of MILs DILS Mothers of Daughters and everyone else who has something to offer. I am excited to see the site grow! Diversity is a good thing!
I am trying to say this as carefully and respectfully as I can so bear with me. My perception has been, in the past, that new people are run off if they have something to say that is considered outside the site's norm. I am not talking about aggressive people coming in and doing a hit and run - I'm talking about people who truly want to be part of the site but may have different ideas. New ideas are nothing to be afraid of. Let's give these people a chance - they may have a lot to offer.
I also totally agree with the idea of being positive and respectful. Since we are a variety of people with a variety of experiences not everyone is going to perceive things the same way. I realize this is hard because we all come with different hurts, but I think it will be helpful to try to develop a thicker skin about things people say. I want to believe that people are posting with best intentions and no one is trying to hurt anyone else. Let's not look for hurt or negativity where none is intended. The ideas are not bad or negative, just different.
I apologize if I give any offense; I know I'm as subtle as a train blaring down a track. (it's part of my charm ;)).
Meryl :)
Meryl,i agree with what you just said.
Shoot,Meryl i remember your very first post,you percieved what i had said,so totally different than the way it was for me.It opened an old wound for you.But after i seen how you percieved it,and you understood where i was coming from,we worked thru that.And we moved forward.
With that misunderstanding,and working thru it,i sure learned a lot about you,and it made me stop and look at myself and my perception.
I have learned a lot here,and hope to gain further insight to my own growth.
QuoteMystic I think she wrote this in a constructive way and it looks like Cremebrulee is wanting to start a fight again. I am sorry Coco.
Excuse me?? Mystic, you couldn't be more wrong...I'm sorry you read me like that...however, I will not apologize for my opinion and feelings...I tell it straight forward, like it is...I don't sugar coat things or write what you want to hear..I write me, who I am...and I'm sorry I cannot be like some of you...I've tried and it just doesn't work...not for me...I'm not trying to hurt anyone or start a fight as you put it...but what I am doing, is sharing my side of the story, opinions, experiences, etc...and I believe that's ok...do I disagree with some of you, yes..., however, theere have been a whole lot more times, I've agreed with you in the past...am I angry, no, and I trying to start a fight, heck no...I'm relaying my thoughts and feelings....
I'm going to post something that someone else wrote, and I've said this many times but in a different way....it is all about perspectives and how you think and feel about things...we see what we want to see...
Yes, I posted my feelings, contrary to the feelings of others in here, but I am not trying to start trouble...as someone else said, we agree to disagree, and that is what it's all about and what some are trying very hard here to reinterate...we will sometimes not always agree, it doesn't mean we're trying to hurt anyone or start a fight...please, don't view it that way....and when there is a disagreement, stand up and be counted...do not walk away...pouting, but relay your side of the story and work things out...it shows repect for oneself, and respect for others, even when we don't agree...
"The written word is both perfect, and imperfect. It's perfect in that it can capture a moment, a feeling, and give a portrayal of an event. It's imperfect in that it cannot always translate one's intent, nor one's inflections as if one were having a conversation with another. Thus, what sometimes is perceived as confrontational is merely a statement that's designed to give an opinion, not to judge another. It's natural to read into the written word with our own frames of reference, but sometimes we need to step back and analyze the situation to be sure that we're not reacting to something that we inferred, rather than what was written by another."
Quote from: Mominwaiting on April 15, 2010, 07:14:50 AM
Meryl,i agree with what you just said.
Shoot,Meryl i remember your very first post,you percieved what i had said,so totally different than the way it was for me.It opened an old wound for you.But after i seen how you percieved it,and you understood where i was coming from,we worked thru that.And we moved forward.
With that misunderstanding,and working thru it,i sure learned a lot about you,and it made me stop and look at myself and my perception.
I have learned a lot here,and hope to gain further insight to my own growth.
Sometimes your biggest disagreements, give insight into the other person and you can become best of friends, finding you have so much in common, or realizing that there is much to be learned from one another.
Um, my two cents here. I think the site has progressed past the shake-down stage and is now in the "let's rub the rough edges off" stage. Everyone is still fitting personalities together and learning how we all tick....in essence, the real basic family growth spurt. For all the gardeners here....the garden is at the straggly growing in stage....gotta get past this point to have the beautiful garden people strive for and that just takes time and patience.
Orly,i just love that :)
Um...could you ladies please check and see if my little left shoulder devil is visiting? It sounds like he has been making the rounds and I have definitely been feeling lighter on that shoulder. I have a new roll of duct tape waiting for his return. Thanks!
Quote from: Mominwaiting on April 15, 2010, 07:14:50 AM
Meryl,i agree with what you just said.
Shoot,Meryl i remember your very first post,you percieved what i had said,so totally different than the way it was for me.It opened an old wound for you.But after i seen how you percieved it,and you understood where i was coming from,we worked thru that.And we moved forward.
With that misunderstanding,and working thru it,i sure learned a lot about you,and it made me stop and look at myself and my perception.
I have learned a lot here,and hope to gain further insight to my own growth.
Thank you for the kind thoughts. That was a perfect example of me being blinded by my own experience and reacting to that.
I'm glad we were able to see each other's side of the story. I went back into therapy, I guess I wasn't as over my father as I thought I was. I am glad we were able to work together.
Meryl :)
Quote from: Mystic on April 15, 2010, 05:34:01 AM
I agree with Laila9 and Postscript. I think Cocos post was made to stop the fighting and make peace. I think she wrote this in a constructive way and it looks like Cremebrulee is wanting to start a fight again. I am sorry Coco.
I hope this means mothers of daughters can come here too. Thank you for your concerns for me and other mothers of daughters. I hope you ladies can be kinder and more respectful. Rude comments serve no purpose and are bullyish. They are not productive.
Coco, I think the topic of this thread is very positive, "How Can We All Understand Eachother Peacefully?", and everything I have read from your posts have overall come across loving, caring, and kind. I also understand your need to take a break some times - there's nothing wrong with that.......your decision entirely. I don't see that as looking for sympathy or anything like that. I think we are all hurting in our individual situations and if we perceive someone Else's' comment to be offensive or judging - we may need to take a step back and heal a little. You are very loved.
Hugs, Hope (sure hope I didn't squeeze too tight with that hug - sometimes I get carried away)
Quote from: Hope on April 17, 2010, 01:23:36 PM
Quote from: Mystic on April 15, 2010, 05:34:01 AM
I agree with Laila9 and Postscript. I think Cocos post was made to stop the fighting and make peace. I think she wrote this in a constructive way and it looks like Cremebrulee is wanting to start a fight again. I am sorry Coco.
I hope this means mothers of daughters can come here too. Thank you for your concerns for me and other mothers of daughters. I hope you ladies can be kinder and more respectful. Rude comments serve no purpose and are bullyish. They are not productive.
Coco, I think the topic of this thread is very positive, "How Can We All Understand Eachother Peacefully?", and everything I have read from your posts have overall come across loving, caring, and kind. I also understand your need to take a break some times - there's nothing wrong with that.......your decision entirely. I don't see that as looking for sympathy or anything like that. I think we are all hurting in our individual situations and if we perceive someone Else's' comment to be offensive or judging - we may need to take a step back and heal a little. You are very loved.
Hugs, Hope (sure hope I didn't squeeze too tight with that hug - sometimes I get carried away)
Coco is gone. :( She isn't allowed here anymore because of complaints about her.
Honestly how could anyone complain about Coco? She was fair, open minded and posted so thoughtfully. Coco really cared about us and about WWU. I will miss her here.
I am going to respond to this topic in a separate post. Tonight, if possible or tomorrow at the latest. It will be under "Grab Bag." Sending Love...
Thanks, Luise. I hope this is just a misunderstanding b/c Coco is such a sweet, caring person. I can't imagine that anyone would complain about her. I feel bad that you have to deal with this on top of everything else.
Sending love and hugs, Hope