WiseWomenUnite.com

Problem Solving => Grandchildren => Topic started by: artlady on April 10, 2012, 08:55:05 AM

Title: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: artlady on April 10, 2012, 08:55:05 AM
just want to know if any of your DD's or DS's have used a "cry out " method or Ferber method to "sleep train " their babies? I've looked at it and it states it is for no younger than 4 months but better for 6months and up. Now this crazy pediatrician that my DD/SIL see has them on this for their 9 week old. I find it very strange and the method i read about said not to let them cry longer than 40 minutes but she told them not to let him cry longer than an hour. My goodness this little guy as had lots of fussy , gassy issues , he is a big nurser and not really gaining lots ( in 10% for weight and 75% for height) so this new method of not nursing but 5-10 minutes on either side ( of which he nursed way more ) and to not feed him but every 3 hours .  Now they r doing the sleep training for day naps of 2-3 hours and sleeping through the night for 7-8 hours is the goal. DD said now they will have to tell people not to visit unless it is a good time for nap, they can't travel he is too small and getting on a schedule ( so we r 70 miles , we go there ) , this is not a happy baby so far not much smiling . I"m new to all this new stuff but I just wondered if a baby can be learning this or he falls asleep from exhaustion from crying ( they go in to soothe him, not pick up then lessen visits ). Doctor told them by 3rd night he would have it . I just hope this doesn't cause a set back in his weight gain ( he needs a little ) and what it will do to feeling secure and reassured someone is there. Please tell me if you know anything about all this as I said this young I wasn't too concerned about a schedule being so tight and rigid.
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: luise.volta on April 10, 2012, 08:58:20 AM
It isn't new...it was really big in the 20s and there are mamy of us still alive who spent years in theapy trying to recover.
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: Silver Spring on April 10, 2012, 09:03:03 AM
Ferberizing is very common in the United States. Doctors do sometimes recommend it, and it is up to the parents to decide if they choose to go that route or not. Either way, damage to the baby is debatable, just as it is with attachment parenting. Since you say they do go in and check on the baby from time to time, they are connecting with the child, without picking the child up. This is providing support for a baby that is simply fussy, at least to parents that practice it.

I think your DD will do what she is comfortable with and I think it would go a long way to trust the relationship she has with her Doctor and SIL regarding parenting techniques. If it is not working for her, trust that she will change her method. Parents are good at adapting.

It is possible your daughter, as exhausted as she is, needs a break from checking on the baby all the time and it may be of her benefit. What you have described for her situation doesn't sound easy, and the doctor may have suggested that for her sake for a little while to at least get the little guy to self-soothe a little more often than he is.
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: luise.volta on April 10, 2012, 09:05:58 AM
I Googled "Crying It Out" and there is a lot on the Web you might find interesting.
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: artlady on April 10, 2012, 09:12:37 AM
Oh I've read a lot about it both the good and the bad. i know she needs her rest and she does take day naps along with him so she sleeps when he sleeps, goes to bed at night when he does so both are on the same sleep time , the Daddy is not as he works all day and she is at home all day. I just hope this doesn't take long but then as we all know schedules seem to change a lot with one so little and you have ear infections , cold , teething and lots more that can interrupt any good schedule I just pray and hope they understand with babies you have to be flexible because each day is a new beginning . I hope she will stand up when needed to do what she thinks rather than what anyone else says, doctors friends etc.  Mother's instinct is the best guide . Maybe this baby will soon be a happy baby , smile and coo that will be a good day
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: lancaster lady on April 10, 2012, 10:14:27 AM
I still think 10 weeks is too young for this method ....actually I think any age is wrong for this method .
As for getting the Mom more rest , I would be clinging from the ceiling listening to my baby cry .
You know the old way of Grandma being there for a helping hand when needed still holds true with me .
What do I know ....I know that when you are tired and at your wits end with a screaming baby , another
pair of hands is a Godsend .
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: Silver Spring on April 10, 2012, 10:32:28 AM
To each their own. Listening to a crying baby is never easy, but if the result is that the baby cries less during the night after the third night, then it might work for everyone living under that roof.

I was an attachment parent myself, but I try very hard not to judge the parenting of others. We all have made mistakes parenting, and we all have, hopefully, learned from them. I think this couple is owed the same, provided they are on the same page and especially under a doctors' orders. If this method is not working, in all likelihood, the parents will make changes. If this doesn't work because the child does not stop crying, then it sounds like they can not continue it, because the end result is to have the child cry less. The father will not be getting extra sleep, so, by default, they will know when to try something different, b/c they will all be exhausted.

From what I understand of it, Ferber is not the same as Crying It Out per Dr. Ferber. While I wouldn't try it myself, going in to give your child a backrub as they cry instead of picking them up doesn't sound like distant parenting to me, it still sounds supportive, and for some babies it could even be more relaxing than getting picked up and moved to a different room. My eldest only needed his cheek rubbed to fall asleep. That was hard for me to learn. I was doing a bit too much activity for him when I took him out of the crib to rock him. Hardest lesson of my life, but once I learned it, we were both happy.
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: Scoop on April 10, 2012, 11:42:41 AM
Artlady - this is really none of your business.  I say this with your best interests at heart.  If you try and give your opinion on sleep training, you will lose, no matter what.  It will seem like criticism to them, no matter how you put it.  This is a path that they have to walk themselves.  They have to make their own decisions regarding how to raise their children.  And you don't get a vote, not even an opinion other than "I'm sure you'll do what's best for your family".

Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: lancaster lady on April 10, 2012, 02:06:00 PM
I think Artlady knows this Scoop , she is just thinking out loud amongst the ladies and finding
out different methods which new Moms are practising now .
That's why we come here , to say things we would never dream of actually saying to the people concerned .
Airing our opinions in cyber space .
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: CrystalBall on April 10, 2012, 02:43:28 PM
ArtLady if it helps you to feel better the Ferber Sleep Training is supposed to show effects fairly quickly so they will know soon if it works or not.  I had one daughter that used this method and saw benefits.  The other daughter is still not getting a full night of sleep from her 6 month old as husband feels crying must be attended to so there is no escalation of time letting baby cry which supposedly trains longer sleep.  The benefit I had in the instance of the Ferber training daughter/Mom was that she lived nearby and I was around helping her as a stay at home Mom.  In the other situation, my other daughter lives a distance away as yours does.  The challenge is not knowing specifically how things are going based on seeing and more dependent on info coming from phone calls.  You're close to your daughter so I see no problem pleasantly asking how the sleep training is going, assume she will persist or drop Ferber, give her any helpful suggestions you remember from your days of being Mom to this her when she was an infant, etc. I am sure you know the difference between dominating the sleep issue and supporting her.  Sometimes I just don't get the "say nothing" philosophy as if Grandma saying anything concerning baby to her own daughter that she has a close relationship with is so bad.  In a good relationship there is comfortable give and take.  Likewise the daughter might make suggestions to her Mother.  No one every says Daughter, don't make any suggestions to your Mother when she is struggling with an issue because you'd be interfering.  Most of all, sure you don't need to worry.  Baby's feeding quantity and sleep issues will work out because your daughter has a good mind and perhaps experimenting so she herself can get more rest as well as baby healthy and happy
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: lancaster lady on April 10, 2012, 02:54:10 PM
good Post Crystal,

I think it's easier to voice your opinion to your own DD .
However it definitely is a no go with your DIL , which I found out to my loss .
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: CrystalBall on April 10, 2012, 03:06:56 PM
Thanks Lancaster Lady.  I so agree.  Those I know with Daughters in Law are super careful and with your own daughter from years of chatting and knowing each other well, it is easier to give an opinion not viewed as an edict or interference.  A mere crumb of life experience, take it or leave it theme
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: NewMama on April 10, 2012, 04:08:44 PM
"Ferbering" has been around for a while, I think he initially published his book in the early 80s. It's not new at all. He is quite clear about it though that it shouldn't be used on babies less than 6 months old, and I don't think the doctor sounds well versed in what it actually is. Breastfed babies should always be fed on demand, and never have their nursing times limited, ever.

That being said, I really think the advice thing is tricky, even when dealing with your own DD vs a DIL. My mom said a lot of stuff to me when my son was a newborn that I'm sure she thought was helpful. But all I heard every time I talked to her was a laundry list of what I was doing wrong and her criticizing my son for being what she perceived as difficult (and I saw as perfectly normal). So what did I do? Stop calling, blocked her online, stopped answering phone calls, and some days didn't answer the door.  My mom would ask how my son ate or slept, and in the beginning I'd answer. Sometimes she never said anything, but later I had family members approaching me saying that she had told them how difficult he was. When my son was 6 months old she finally concluded that I have an incredibly happy healthy boy, and that just *maybe* I was making good decisions for him. It's infuriating when you're agonizing over making every little decision for your baby and someone comes a long with a supposedly 'better' way to do it, and the only reason is because that's how they did it. That's not good enough for me. My son is not the same baby as me or my brother or my DH. Our situation is not the same as my parents, or my ILs. So DH and I need to make decisions for him, us and our particular situation. I withdrew from my relationship with my mother a lot, and I still check what I say in front of her, although things are better.

I really think offering up unsolicited advice could possibly push her away. My mother is a lot more comfortable voicing her opinion to me than she would be to my sister in law (who we all love). But that doesn't mean there may not be unintended consequences in doing so.
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: luise.volta on April 10, 2012, 04:11:51 PM
I think I read that she is your only child. Please don't make her your only interest...it's unhealthy for everyone. Sending love...
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: artlady on April 10, 2012, 04:45:02 PM
She is my only child but I've got two great stepsons. Scoop I was just asking on here , she sends updates via email/text everyday on how he is doing . I have not given her any opinion of what I think about all of this , I only am asking here , wanting feedback from ones that have used it and I'm letting them find their way as I don't live there so I"m not the one that has to hear the crying thank goodness.
Thanks LL for coming to my defense and understanding what I was asking. Crystal Ball I'm only 70 miles and could be there very easy to help but that is not what SIL wants , so she has been exhausted from the beginning and said she never knew it would be so tough. I hate seeing her so worn out when i go to visit and I could spend the night anytime as she has asked but I've got a deep gut feeling she hasn't really cleared it with him as she called us from the hospital without his knowledge so I know that is why he was shocked to see us thus is why he was so rude to us when we visited the few short times while we were in town. I don't' want to go stay where I'm not wanted and to put more of a problem on her . So I'm here for her , support her but I just don't think it is good for this baby as he has been so attached to her all day and lots during the night , suffers lots of gas , not a big weight gain, i just hope this doesn't set him back but it is their child not mine. I can just pray this is a success for them . Thanks all for the ones that really understand I"m not giving her any advice , I"m just coming here to ask .
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: luise.volta on April 10, 2012, 04:51:47 PM
We all care. We all want to see you back in balance. We all differ because we're all different. No one is right and no one is wrong. We're just giving feedback from our various perspectives. We have all been there in one way and another. That's what counts.
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: artlady on April 11, 2012, 11:22:51 AM
Thanks Luise     I'm painting today and feel like I can get a balance . I"m now trying to schedule a visit on Friday with gs and DD , as a friend who hasn't seen her in a long time or ever seen the baby wants to go. We have to drive 1  1/2  hours up and back which is not bad but we had hoped to arrive about 10 visit and then we all go out to lunch , go back and leave before we get caught in the big city 4 traffic . Well with this new very rigid napping schedule , I"m not so sure we will see him awake or if so we might have to eat lunch on the way home . Also she is going to her daily stroller strides ( which I"m so glad she has joined) .  So if we get there at 10 , she won't be home until 11.  So not so sure we will have much baby time , if DD will be able to get it all done with us coming and we will take her( baby ) out for lunch so she doesn't have to worry about that. wow planning is so tough on how to get everyone on the same schedule . OK time to go back to painting , have to finish this one by Tuesday for delivery out of town.  Yikes
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: luise.volta on April 11, 2012, 11:30:47 AM
I hope you have a great time...and I'm so happy that you are painting! Sending love...
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: Pooh on April 11, 2012, 11:47:45 AM
I've read on it but never used it.  There is so many different theories about everything out there when it comes to raising children.  Pacifier or no pacifier.  Cloth diapers...disposable diapers.  Putting a child in bed with you versus making them sleep in their own bed.  I have my opinion on each subject based on my personality, what worked for me and how I felt about each one.  That's the bottom line.  It was my choice as a Mother what to try and not try.  I know you aren't giving her any advice, which is good because I even had to do different things each child as they were different.  Punish one son by taking away his toys and making him read a book, was torture to him.  Punish the other one the same way, was fun because he loved books.  Had to use a different strategy on each child.  She will make her own mistakes, do much right and learn from both.

I am with Luise.  We will always worry about them and love them, but we can not let it consume us.
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: artlady on April 11, 2012, 11:52:59 AM
No that is why I"m so glad I still work even if part time and I"m also a CARE net volunteer as I work with cancer patients as they go through treatments being a cancer survivor myself. So I've got lots to keep me busy , it is that old brain that gets going at night when i sit down, get on the computer or can't find a darn thing on TV worth watching   lol
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: Pooh on April 11, 2012, 11:57:49 AM
I have known that feeling.  My new one?  You'll love this.  I have had nothing but attitude issues with SD...drives me bonkers...you guys know the stories.  So this trip next week, we aren't taking her and oh how relieved I was to be able to know we would have fun and leave Miss Stress at home.  I was giddy for two days knowing I wouldn't have to deal with her antics and could enjoy my time with DH/YS/FDIL.  So what did I do last night?  Laid awake feeling guilty about not wanting her to go.  Berating myself for feeling glad about it.  Coming up with reasons why we should take her....oh geesh...there's got to be a drug for this! Lol.
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: artlady on April 11, 2012, 12:01:22 PM
LOL LOL LOL @POOH    wow now you have made my day , I would be and have done the very same thing. I do wish there was meds for that as I get so excited knowing I might get to avoid that painful person then feel guilty and end up asking them etc. Got to be a drug somewhere for us LOL
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: Pooh on April 11, 2012, 12:02:55 PM
When you find it...let me know!
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: artlady on April 11, 2012, 12:04:28 PM
Hey  I was feeling confident that your were on the track of it and would be letting me know asap you found the miracle cure .  lol
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: Pooh on April 11, 2012, 12:05:33 PM
Nope.  Closest thing I have found so far is chocolate chip cookies.
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: artlady on April 11, 2012, 12:21:17 PM
Well my best fix is a double Butterfinger  candy bar , that seems to give me such relief  , but the scales don't like them .
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: artlady on April 11, 2012, 12:28:28 PM
Luise   don't count my chickens yet . We are trying to work out all the variables to make this trip work. So sitting in the driveway for an hour might not be fun waiting on her to get home from stroller strides, then visit a bit , go to lunch and take her back home , hit the road by the bad traffic to get home without much traffic . The other problem is with the new sleep schedule , dint' now how much time we will have to hold or see baby as the awake window is short , he sleeps now from 9-11 and 1-3:00 so we will eat and hold baby at guess at whereever we go out to eat at. So not such a good way to visit but not going to ask her to miss one day out of 5 for class nor would I ever want her to upset this new schedule as then if he hasn't slept " it is a bad night for us all " ( her own words ) so I don't want to be the reason daddy isn't getting sleep . So we will see, if we can get it done in the time frame we are dealing with . I'm getting too old for all this rush rush rush, wonder what happened to when folks are driving from out of town to visit you accommodate them the best you can.  Well the old school is out and the new school is in. By any chance do you know where there is a "new school " for old school folks to go . ?   LOL
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: artlady on April 15, 2012, 10:44:11 AM
Well I feel better DD is more like herself, ( so body snatchers didn't take her ) and baby seems so much better. She explained exactly how she has been doing the sleep training , she modified it after following pediatricians instructions , read the Feber method then took out parts of all that she thought she liked and would work for her . So she started one way but saw she had to change it , so now I feel better , he does cry but not as long as all had told her to let him. I think the longest has been 40 minutes but since then it has been 10- 15 or less. So the best part of it all is neither are sleep deprived , that little fella wasn't getting near enough sleep for his age, tired , fussy , gassy and nursed on demand all the time so she was worn completely out . She has also changed the nursing schedule and he actually takes a morning nap after sleeping a very long night with waking up once to nurse . I'm so proud of her and feel so much better as I knew she couldn't keep that pace up , plus she is exercising , working out when she can so  I was worried she would just drop from exhaustion . Poor thing can't really leave on weekends though to go out on her own as SIL can't seem to handle baby by himself, even if he is sleeping etc, so hopefully she will get him trained soon (LOL) so she can go out alone when she needs a break. So now that worry is behind and I can sleep better myself. Thanks for hanging in there with me . hugs to all
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: Pen on April 15, 2012, 11:23:15 AM
What a relief for you & DD, GS, and yes even SIL. That's great!
Title: Re: new baby , new mom , new grandmom
Post by: artlady on April 20, 2012, 10:45:14 AM
Baby still doing better than before but he has changed some on the waking times in the night that she says he has got to go back to times, For instance he is waking up 2nd time at 4 vs 5 or 5:30 but I've assured her he will be fine and go back to the schedule that babies change alot so not to get too worried , or like sometimes being hard on herself . I think maybe sometimes trying to keep it right on the exact time all day and night can be exhausting for new moms , so being a little flexible can help them to cope or at least i hope so. She is doing great and I'm so proud of her , I'm not worrying about him as much now , his little cheeks are filling out , still long and lean but he is gaining now so all seems to work. Poor little fella maybe couldn't gain much as he was not getting enough sleep, who knows but I think now things will start to settle down , all will get the needed sleep they need and that is a big plus. Yahooooooooooo. I know gm will sleep better now. Didn't get to go this week but hopefully I'll go next week to get my hands on that little babe. I have to eat crow as the first way she told me about i was scared about and once she tried it , didnt' like it , adjusted it to what she could stand to hear( crying ) it all worked .