The issues between my MIL and I are long and involved. We have a 7 year history of discord and I've only been married for a year (our anniversary is in 2 weeks). Most of our problems stem around my husband because we started dating when he started college (I'm 2 years his senior) and MIL thought I was very controlling because her son was changing a lot--he didn't want to come home every weekend, spent a lot of time on campus, got a job, etc. He was asserting his independance and she blamed a lot of that on me. Over the years many things have been said and done and after cooling off I usually write an email, make a phone call, talk to them and try to say let's work it out. MIL's way of dealing with things is to forget the past and not talk things through, which bothers me but to keep the peace on a number of occasions I've tried to take that approach as well. Leading up to our wedding we tired to be cordial, neither my husband or I were really happy with the ILs because they weren't genuinely happy about our impending nuptials and they actually had a huge blow up with my husband at the reception about where SIL was sitting.
All that aside in the interest of family we tried to put all of that aside. SIL decided she's not speaking to us and hasn't for the past year so it puts a strain on everyone, but for the past year we've visited a few times, he calls his mother once a week and we even planned a "family vacation" for July. We planned the vacation because MIL was so upset that we spent so much time with my family. SIL refused to come to the vacation, then showed up for dinner, pouted for an hour and left. So husband decided to call SIL and try to work things out with her. She said she said she was "tired of trying" and didn't want to put the effort in a relationship with us anymore because it never goes anywhere. So we decided to give her her space, because honestly what do you do with that kind of response?
There is so much tension and animosity between all of us and it just never feels comfortable. Finally I decided to write my MIL a letter. I told her that I felt that our family needed a leader, that it needed someone to step up and start actively working for all of us to be a family, a real family. I told her that I felt we all wanted a good realtionship but that we were stalemated and everyone was a little lost. She wrote back "no one person can do this". So I responded with it's not one person who has to do it, but that we just need a leader to help us do it. She told me that she wasn't going to write me anymore because all I wanted was her to do what I want and she wasn't going to be dictated to and then she invited us to FILs birthday (on a voicemail to my husband she told him to tell me those things). I know it sounds weird but it really was all at the same time. Husband and I couldn't make it the weekend she wanted to do FILs birthday and told her we'd come visit the following weekend. She told us that she was tired of us dictating everything and that if we couldn't come the weekend she wanted us then to not bother coming to visit at all and she would see us on her terms. She said she was "tired of trying" to get through to us and make things work with me and she just didn't want to deal anymore.
And here we are. 3 weeks later. Husband and MIL haven't spoken and my husband is also "tired of trying" he said he doesn't want to call her. So my fear is coming true. It's becoming easier and easier for them to not talk and not see each other. Their family is falling apart and to tell you the truth after 7 years of being with my husband I too am "tired of trying",
Any advice. I'm sorry this is so long.
Oh! Sometimes I just think it's hopeless. It is; no matter what you do, if you have a son, your relationship with him and his wife is over.
I could break down and sob.
I hope you can get this worked out for all your sakes but if not, cut it off as quickly as possible. The damage is irreparable. It's worse than any cancer out there.
I wish mine had shot me, both my husband and me.
HopeUknow,
I can relate to your story because I too got tired of trying and going nowhere. I did everything I could possibly do to please son and dil and started to feel like it was all their way or the highway. I even told them I was sorry for things I didn't even know I did! I honestly know how they feel. I have to agree with Chickiebaby, cut em loose now and don't prolong it. Sometimes distance is the best thing.
Oh this sounds so like mine. We haven't spoken to my IL's in over 3 years. I would love for all of us to be a family but they are tired of trying. Every time I try to send them a simple "Hey" email, it gets thrown back in my face. I cannot let it go because my family is so close and I really just don't understand how people could just shut out their own son. What can we do to mend things? Time isn't the answer because 3 years (almost 5 for SIL) should have been long enough. I can't make them like us, but I keep trying anyway. DH doesn't even want to try because it ends up as same ole same ole. I feel bad for my kids, myself, DH and them for not knowing any of us (especially their own grandchildren that they haven't seen in over 3 years). What do we do?
That's the problem with me too. My family is so close and they say that their family is so close and they are, except when it comes to me and my husband. I know that the real problem they have is me and I don't know what to do. I keep trying because I just feel so terrible just letting go.
I just want to know now what the guidelines for "distance" or "boundaries" are? I know there are no hard and fast rules, but when do we visit? Do we visit? Do we call? What are the rules?
of course, I don't know your inlaws but is your husband a good man? Was he raised right? Those are important questions in this scenario. If he is, it means they did something right.
We did something wrong here. I'm aware of that, though it is hard to stomach. My son has no view but his wife's view, no thought but her thoughts. Whatever she decides to do, he goes along with it.
In the beginning, she wined and dined us and the day of the wedding, she turned on us completely. Maybe someone can help me here...why would a human use us and then turn on us like we're criminals?
She is a huffer and puffer, arm folder, stomper, unique silences that stifles the entire room and creates a pall that envelopes a place like the plague. She comes, however, packaged with our henpecked husband.
His mission in life is to do what she says at all cost. His last phone call to me was, "Mom, did you know that (close DIL) has not answered (his wife's) email?"
I told him I did not know why and that I was sorry. (there isn't anything I can do about that) Close DIL doesn't want to be around her either. I feel so sorry for her that she is going to have to put up with the control freak at Thanksgiving.
She has never, not one time, thought of other people's feelings. Not even to answer the phone for us to wish her a happy birthday.
At first, when she was nice to us, we fell for her, hook line and sinker. We adored her. The turn was so quick and out of the blue that we were still struggling to get her back. Letters, phone calls, anything...nothing worked.
After 16 years, it has affected my health and I am going down fast. How could she treat us like this? We are well thought of and just for my husband's sake, why can't she not be so hurtful? If she hates me, at least act like you care for him.
If any of you ever have a son, I mean this, just know going in that his wife will, in most cases cause such heartache that it will kill your spirit. Be careful. Don't fall for her.
She needed someone to control and my son needed controlling. We created this... it's our fault. Parents do the best they can.
I want to add something about distant DIL....she was raised in an upper middle class community like we were. Her mother is a reformed alcoholic (a rich one) which should make it better. It doesn't...it's the same thing.
I always have such sympathy for people like this. They are only trying to numb their pain from the world. Her Mother, though is a different story. She is impossible to deal with. Just awful and I think she and her daughter might be the only people I know that I do not like.
I realize that DIL had no control in her home, that's the way alcoholic parents affect a child.
She grabbed son like grim death because I think she realized that she could get rid of us and take control. She did. Pitiful.
Saddil,
When a MIL shuts her son out, believe me, she had to have felt shut out by him as well. My DIL used to say " it's me, they don't like me" and that was NOT true at the time but now I am sorry I ever seen her and she caused that ( where my heart is, is where they put it). I love my son but I refuse to be scolded by my DIL and son. They may say they want to be a family but believe me, it is ALL on their terms and it does not work that way.. it is give and take with both parties
I want to add some things to my previous post that might help the DIL's on here to see why a MIL may quit trying. We were a very close family with the future DIL included ( we loved and treated her like a daughter ). When she married our son, all of a suddden, her attitude was like she, our son and Grandchild were a trophy and if I wanted to be a part of their life I had to EARN that !! . I feel like that is so wrong because we should already be a part of their family, afterall, I didn't make her earn a right to be in ours.! Just because we are Mom's doesn't make us doormats and after so much of it, we get tired. Should we say what happened to us is okay jut because the DIL and son now want to be family?
I believe a man should put his wife first and defend her BUT not in the wrong things. When our sons turn on us as well, that kills a spirit. I just wonder how a Son can shut his own Mother out !
I can see that there comes a time when you just don't want to keep hitting your head against a wall, or unlike Charlie Brown with the football, you just don't want to be fooled anymore. You've given me some things to think about - so far we're stalled at the point of "she hates us" and our son is frustrated by her attitude but we haven't heard that he is rejecting us also...yet. It's good to be prepared for the future (without willing bad things to happen.)
This is all so sad for all of us. Again, why can't there be enough love and acceptance and tolerance to go around??? I still can't wrap my head around the notion that there's a limit on love!!
We must take care of ourselves and be strong. You never know what's ahead, and I for one don't want to be caught in a weak, desperate position. I just haven't figured out how to stop crying :)
I hope you can figure out something that works for you. Best wishes to all of us!
Penstamen,
As I re-read your story I see that you're an MIL of only a year and that your son is not happy about this dislike towards you. I think you have some time and space to let the situation mend. Sometimes, unfortunately, she keeps on and on with your son until he gives in to her..that's what happened to us.
She truly has made him think his family never loved him and that only she is his savior. So unfair. So out of bounds. Unspeakable!!!
There should be no limit to love...that's its beauty, it never ends!!
When you're weak and desperate, that's when your DIL will treat you worse. I hate to equate this to the animal kingdom but it's much like that. I am talking to myself as much as to you. I can't let her see that I'm weak.
I hope we can live through these holidays and I hope your DIL lets you in her life!! Best wishes to you!
Penstamen,
I hope your situation mends too... it makes me sick to see a mother go through all this heartache :(.I am so happy I found this site because I really did think I was the only Mom who this had happened to and when we grieve we do need someone to talk to. Like Chickiebabys son, ours became brain washed... he talks like her, has all her ideas, acts like her... it's sickening.
Quote from: 2chickiebaby on October 23, 2009, 03:30:48 PM
My son has no view but his wife's view, no thought but her thoughts. Whatever she decides to do, he goes along with it.
Is there no part of any of you that thinks that their son changed of his own accord? That his thoughts and views changed as a result of time and not because someone changed them for him? I mean I like to think that my husband is strong willed and has a mind of his own but my MIL doesn't think that. She thinks that I make him change his mind and that he thinks like me because I make him think like me. Don't the Moms out there believe their sons are intelligent and have maybe made a conscious decision to think the way they do?
I can't speak for others but for our son, I can. Yes, he is very bright and accomplished. What he thought when we knew him were his own thoughts.
Now, however, things that were polar opposite of anything he might have thought, he now thinks. Now, how did that happen?
First of all, his wife was and is a total religious fanatic. I want everyone here to know that so are we but our religion, though the same as hers is not one of condemnation but love. That's how he was raised.
He was raised to love others, not beat them down with a set of rules that if not for grace would be impossible to keep. Any of you who are lost in my translation just skip over this. Any of you who know what I am speaking about will understand.
An example: they had a friend, dear friend, who had a tragedy befall him and because of that, this person started behaving in a manner that was not befitting them. Instead of staying in there and being a friend, my son and his wife just pushed that person aside and never spoke to the person again.
This person even said, "I never dreamed you two of all people would do this to me. Because of this, I have lost all faith."
This kind of action was so foreign to our son before he married this mutation that it could be compared to night and day. Our son showed God's love in action, word and deed.
This is only the tip of the iceburg. There are so many examples that even his one time friends are stunned.
Another example: Her Mother is just like her. She made the statement to me that she did not believe in depression. What? Really? Seems like somebody has a screw loose. Mankind gets depressed, so do dogs. It's the condition of humanity as long as we're on earth.
I said in one of my other posts that I blame us for him falling for her. Something we did caused him to go toward a woman who sulked, bossed people around, was rude, showed zero sympathy and casts a pall over a room a mile long.
We caused it and we're paying for it. All his effort is given to watching her and endlessly trying to make her okay. If she's not, he goes to her and works on her to make her settle down. (she throws fits like a two year old)
She once screamed at me because I worked my rear end off to make her a dinner and poured the wrong beverage in her glass. The silence in this house was like a funeral parlor.
Anything else I can think of I'll pass on to you. This boy/man, our son, is a grown man who we no longer know. So, yes, he changed on his own accord.
I think some wives take advantage of their husbands natural need to break away from their parents. Like cancer cells that run amok, this need goes haywire until all family ties are broken. So, what might have been a small change becomes one of damaging proportions. It's almost like joining a cult! Cult leaders know the psychology behind brainwashing and use it to gain control and power. Do you blame the cult leader or the person who was manipulated to join up?
At least this is how it feels to me.
Our son, being raised in a rural and less-materialistic lifestyle than our city-raised DIL, liked all the pretty, shiny things his wife's family provided and fell for their attitudes big time. Now he's seeing the downside and she is not pleased! Yes, our sons may make choices on their own, but they are often being manipulated and pressured to change in ways they wouldn't have if left alone.
Any woman or man who either encourages or manipulates their wives or husbands to distance themselves from their family does not love them.
They only want control.
Such powerful DILs. I find that what you women are saying about your DILs is exactly what my MIL is saying about me. It's sad because that's not who I am and it's not what I'm doing, but how am I or any other DIL supposed to prove that. Whatever we do is a part of some crazy ploy we have.
My husband and MIL are not speaking and somewhere in a room there are people who think this is all my fault.
Yes, Daughter in laws are the most powerful force on earth. I once thought Mothers were but I don't anymore.
I don't know what happened with your Mother in law to have all this happen and I can understand your husband wanting to assert his independence but something changed fundamentally in him that is discernable only to a Mother.
Last night we were with a couple who are older than our sons. The Mother and Dad said to me: "son is married now and we do not like his wife." I told them that I was sorry about that.
She said the girl/woman was so rude to them that it was unbelievable. I was shocked because these people are darling. She doesn't seem as upset as we are because she has a daughter. That makes all the difference.
You seem like you've tried to fix this and I admire that in you. I would have climbed mountains if my DIL had done this. Keep trying for everyone's sake. It isn't worth it to remain enemies. When something is wrong with either your kids or your parents, everything in your life get off balance until it's better.
You know that if your Husband had a falling out with your family, it would hurt you deeply. You would walk through fire to make it better. I know that I would have. It's so strange to all of us in this position that this situation is reserved only for the Mother and Dad of the son.
There was a boy I once knew here in our community who had gotten off into the wrong crowd. He was a good kid at heart and his Mother was heartbroken because he was pulling away from her and this crowd was taking him over.
He liked and admired us as a family so I saw him oneday and talked to him. I told him that I thought the world was at his feet and that he was at a crossroads. Taking one road would lead to great things but staying with this crowd would ruin him.
To this day, he thanks me and is so grateful that I talked to him. Only because he admired us did he listen to me. He took the good road and got away from the bad influence. His Mother was so relieved because she was being pushed out.
It's much the same way with a DIL. They have such a powerful role in the relationship that they either want the inlaws gone or they want them distanced. Never their own family. They want control just like the wrong crowd did with this boy.
Yes, our sons are supposed to grow up but not become someone else. We knew our DIL before our son married her, we knew her personality, her moods, likes, dislikes and most of her goals ( the only thing we didn't know was that she didn't really like us). When our son changed he took on all her thoughts ideas and ways. I have known and talked to the DIL so I would know that my son acts just like her. Everything about him changed, his favorite color is now hers, favorite foods ( hers) etc...
The DIL may not consciously know this is happening but her attitude toward his parents will eventually become his.
The worst part about this is that after many years, sometimes the man awakens and finds he's lost his entire identity plus his family.
He can't quite remember how he got to this place but "the my way or the highway" attitude is insidious. A woman has a powerful role in a man's life. It's up to her whatever the outcome is.
Women don't want puppets but to keep these women, they become them. I think women despise them.
My husband and I don't like to make decisions without each other. Isn't that a product of being married? Don't a husband and wife consult one another before making plans? I just don't understand the "control" aspect of a man and wife communicating and compromising. For the most part boys care less than girls about most things. They're more easy going and less emotional and maybe the discord is a product of a man just not caring that much.
I think mothers get hurt because for the first half of a man's life it's easier to concede to his mom. He doesn't care about something so whatever makes mom happy is fine. Then he gets married and there's a new woman and he doesn't care about something but she does so he just does what makes her happy...
I know what you mean, Anna. The worst part of this is the damage it has done to my health and the heart of my husband. I don't know of a man who is more loved by all he knows than my husband.
I blame us, because there is no one else to blame. It's not anyone's fault but ours that he would be attracted to this woman. I remember, early on, when one of his friends passed away.
They were not married then but I have never seen anybody get so upset, not at the death but at our son who was comforting his family! Her words: "he is spending too much time with them and not with me!!"
I think he went over there 3 times total. He was one of his best friends.
It's hopeless for us.
There are people getting rich off of Mothers in law. There are so many bashing websites with ads on them that you wouldn't believe it. Every little thing the MIL does is either narcissistic, manipulative, needy, using, mental illness or just plain crazy. Can we all be that bad if we raised good kids?
Really? That bad? It's so too late for us but I'll spend the rest of my life warning other mother's of sons, "watch out!!! She could be right around the corner"
Luise, you should write a book and put it on this site for sale. You'd make a ton of money! I hope you're doing okay....thinking of you~~
Anna I guess you would say that I'm insecure and a bad DIL because my husband and I don't go to family events if we both can't attend. His family lives almost 4 hours away and my extended family 2.5 hrs which means if either of us is going to an event it's an overnight/weekend stay and we both think it's a little weird for us to go without the other. I don't think I'm insecure because we want to go to events together and share in special things together I just think we like each other. We married each other because we wanted to share this life together. We do certain things apart he plays poker, I go shopping with the girls etc but for the most part we do things together.
I can say that the distance is a huge factor in why we don't like to go to functions without each other. I'm sure that he might go to more if they were closer distance wise. As it is now I like 10 mins away from my parents and we see her twice a week and we both go.
I know for myself I feel that my ILs don't like me and I would feel strange if he went to a number of family functions without me.
I see.....you're afraid that they will say something about you to him while he is there?
It wouldn't make any difference to him would it?
My husband doesn't want to go without me. I have sent him to meet with his parents a couple of times thinking it might easy the tension but he refuses. He thinks it's strange too. We think of it this way. I wouldn't hang out with or spend a lot of time with anyone that didn't like my husband out of love and respect for him and he doesn't want to spend time with anyone that doesn't like me.
Please tell me why they don't like you?
2Chickiebaby: I wish I knew...that's why I came here. I wanted to see what other MILs were thinking to see if I could garner some insight that way. I'm gaining that insight. As offensive as some people might find this I do believe she believes "I stole her baby boy". I said in my original post that is the first in his family to move away from home to go to college and he met me 3 months after starting school. His life was changing as a result of growing up and being in this new environment, but MIL assumes that I'm to blame for his new lease on life and all the new ideas he gained moving away from home and going to a liberal arts college of all places.
Anna: He did have a good relationship with his family until he went to college and they were not very understanding that he did not want to drive 4 hrs every weekend to come home and that he wanted to do the things that college students do. I don't think anyone can break a strong relationship. And I happen to believe that a mother will do ANYTHING to be with her child or to make her child happy. I may one day have sons and one day have a DIL but I am apart of the camp that thinks "a daughter is a daughter for life but a son is a son until he takes a wife"...not that he abandons his family or anything but just that women keep families together and that woman are closer to their mothers then sons are going to be. My mom is super nice to my husband and she truly loves him, but she also says that she does it full well knowing that her son will done day come to another woman as a SIL and wants to make sure the good Karma is there for him and that he too is treated well.
Mothers understand not wanting to come home on weekends when the sons are at college. There is a distance that's there, though, discernable only to a Mother, when his wife doesn't like his parents.
That's the facts. I'm at the point where I think after all these years, I might tell her off and be done with them. I hate that so much.
Can you imagine coming to your Mother's town and not calling her? That's what distant DIL does. She comes here with her kids and never bothers to even call us. She's visiting friends.
Close DIL said, "this is a tragedy"....when she told close DIL that "it would have to be okay with us if they didn't come here. TOO BAD", she said.
I just remember son telling me he could not marry her. She worked on me till I got them back together. My husband is still sad about that. She did what she came to do.
We were too close, had too much fun. She doesn't understand fun. She is all business. No laughing.
Only in our culture is this true. Too bad for us. Other cultures, this is not true.
yes, you're right....
I still refer to my previous statement and what I think the root of the problem is:
Boys don't care. They didn't care for the first 18-25 years of their lives and so they defaulted to their Moms and did whatever made Mom happy because they didn't care either way. They get married and they still don't care. They don't care but their wife does so they default to wife because after all they don't care, why not make wife happy.
ex: Age 18 Mom is having a BBQ Son doesn't have anything better to do --> Son goes to BBQ
ex: Age 22 Mom is having a BBQ Son has plans to watch football with the boys. Mom gets sad.
Son can watch football at home and doesn't want Mom to be sad --> Son goes to BBQ
ex: Age 25 Mom is having a BBQ Son/boyfriend has plans to go shopping with girlfriend. Mom gets
sad. Son doesn't want Mom or girlfriend to be sad. --> Son goes with girlfriend to BBQ half
the time goes shopping later.
ex: Married Mom is having a BBQ Son has plans with wife. Wife doesn't want to go to BBQ because she feels animosity from MIL. Son doesn't want Mom to be sad but doesn't want his wife to be upset either. He doesn't care either way whether or not he goes, lives with wife and loves her. --> Son doesn't go to BBQ. MIL blames DIL for tearing son away.
IF son cared to go he would speak up he and DIL would talk it out and they would decide. If sons weren't so easy going and laid back then MILs wouldn't have to blame the DIL for having a preference and opinion. It's not our fault our husbands default to us.
oy vey!
It's not that simple. It just isn't...this woman set out to destroy us and she has done it. Again, you don't know our situation just like I don't know yours.
ie..BBQ
I would sure tend to think DIL did have something to do with son not going to the BBQ since last ex was ' DIL doesn't want to go to the BBQ and why ? because of MIL'
There does come a time when we have to leave it alone. Yes, my son grew up, yes he is married, yes, I am hated. and chickiebaby, I did tell my DIL off and dumped her and him both after I did it ! Best thing I have ever done.
Isn't the name of this site ' Mother in Laws unite '?
It is for us to talk, compare, comfort and lean on each other. I think it's worse than bad when someone gets on here and says " we are wallowing" .
I feel like this... Who's business is it if we do wallow? I was treated badly by my DIL until I stood up to her so I plan on standing up here as well.
Quote from: mom2 on October 26, 2009, 06:05:24 PM
Isn't the name of this site ' Mother in Laws unite '?
It is for us to talk, compare, comfort and lean on each other.
That is what it's here for. For you to talk and get support and support each other. To get help and provide help. But wallowing won't help. Feeling sorry for yourselves won't help. You said that you felt better once you stood up to your DIL. That's great. To make stands. But wallowing and being miserable...banding together to feel pitiful...that's not what strong women do.
You can do what you want but I would hope that it wouldn't be wallowing. I hope it would be something more productive. If not, that's not any of my concern, I was just suggesting a different course.
My suggestion was don't wallow and find ways to "fix it"...I don't know what each individual solution is but I do know that the solution isn't "give up", "tell her off", "tell her to get our of your life", "shut them out" or any of those options. "Fix it" means a number of different things but wht it doesn't mean is feel sorry for yourself, it doesn't mean demonize her. "Fix it" means find the good in your DIL, find a way to reconnect, find and use humility, etc. It means so many things and it means it in so many different ways. Just like each situation is different each "fix it" is as well.
Sorry to tell you but you can be strong and still be sorry for what the situation is. I had to do what I had to do but that still doesn't mean I liked it.
Someday you will know where we are coming from but until then please don't judge how we feel. I would think it pretty normal to wallow a little when your kid wants nothing to do with you anymore ( and for no reason ).
Anna: Like I said how am I supposed to know what you and your DIL need. It's like you guys want a quick fix and if we can't give you the exact solution you don't want to work towards finding it yourself.
and Mom2 just like I don't know what it's like to be a MIL you don't know what it's like to be a DIL who feels their MIL dislikes them for silly reasons or is blaming them for stuff they have no control over. I guess we're stalemated in that regard. But that doesn't mean we can't try to understand one another.
I do know how it feels to be rejected by my MIL - the first one was horrid, but the second was fabulous. I've tried to use her example.
DIL does not like us and wants nothing to do with us. Total rejection of who we are - values, interests, jobs, style, looks, intelligence or lack there of, etc. Nothing to fix, since we can't turn into totally different people, right? And we can't turn into her parents, so we're doomed. When grandkids come we can be sure not to see them (since no one in their right mind would leave their children with people they hate.)
I do allow myself some wallow time since there is nothing I can do to help this situation. Then I get up and do something for myself. It doesn't take away the pain.
I hope you never have to go through this, any of you DILs out there...think about it.
Anna: Maybe give in. Maybe do things her way. I mean if that's what she wants then why not try it. Maybe after giving her, her way enough times she'll start to trust you and when you suggest things done a different way she might comply. I don't know if that's the answer I'm just listening to what you say and throwing out ideas. I mean if she's so high strung you can be the better person by being so laid back that she has nothing to complain about. Then 1 of 2 things happen. 1- she comes around or 2- your son sees that 'wow nothing makes her happy' and he moves on. It takes more patience and grace than I know I have, but then again I'm not a mother and I know that a mother has unlimited resources for their child.
I won't even say I want to fix it at this point because it's not even her now, it's me ( I admit that ) I went from heartbroken to pissed. Don't give up ? there again we don't know each others situations and mine was hell. I tried to fix it for many years. Demonize her? she did that to herself.
I just thought talking about it here with kind Moms and DIL's may inspire me to want to fix it again but when I get negative feed back I'm standing still again.
he has told me that he wants me in his life
Anna if your son says this to you and you still have a strong desire to maintain the relationship with the whole family then it sounds to me like you have a pretty good foundation to build on. Maybe you could ask your son if he'd like to have lunch, just the two of you. Would DIL get jealous over that. And if she does, so what? Its just a mother and son having lunch together. I just think that these sons should be able to see how irrational their wives are being if they get upset over something like that.
I've been away and trying now to catch up on everything in here, so pardon me if I miss stuff.
In my opinion, Ihopeuknow has made some very good DIL points and I am processing them and appreciate the sharing.
Of course I can only speak for myself. Mother of three sons and a single mother to boot. My sons used to joke about how they would have a room for me in the back (or basement or attic) of their own houses, to support me in my old age!
What I am struggling to learn now as they go off and have their own lives is -- who am I now in their lives? Not really their mothers in the way I was - but still, the mother who did her best to raise them. The two who are married do not need my advice or help anymore (thank God, they have wives who they turn to now!) The one still in h.s. may come to me some for advises, but he's also learning to make his own decisions.
It is painful but often true in our culture - the little poem Ihopeuknow cited - a daughter's a daughter for all of your life, a son is a son til he takes him a wife. It depends of course on the families and the cultures It can just as well be true that the married couple becomes closer to the son's side of the family. (in my ex's family, and because of the dysfunctionality of my family, we actually were close to his family).
But it is more complex that this poem, I think.
We are watching our sons grow up and change -- this often happens to sons and daughters as they mature and experience the world. They move away from what is familiar and develop in ways their families find unfamiliar, unlike the children we knew.
Because my sons were in their 30's when they married, they'd already done this -- it happens with or without a spouse. It's part of growing up and becoming your own person.
You may end up just like mama and papa thought you should or would, but it's very likely you are going to be someone entirely different, a stranger to them. All parents have to deal with this. Sometimes a new DIL or SIL can become a target for the blame, when really -- it is life that is to blame.
And most likely, our children chose this person because our children were already changing from who we thought they were, or who we think they should be - and this is the mate that fits them. I still don't get why my first son chose who he did, but he did and it's his decision to live with.
However, I also don't believe that this little poem is giving permission or means that the son totally rejects his birth family.
I do think SOME DIL's take it that way, kind of shrug and say, "too bad, he's with me now" as if it's an either or thing..., a win or lose thing. Yes, the DIL has the son now. But what happened to honoring your father and mother? Does this now mean our sons get married, wave good bye and we're out of the picture forever because we had sons, not daughters?
If I thought the finish of all I've tried to do for the past 41 years (whether I've done it well or not) was that I was going to be abandoned and disowned by all three of my sons, I would be totally heartbroken and my 3rd son, still at home, would be the one who probably felt my bitterness. As would my DIL's. But I don't think it's true -- our place in the family is changing.
That's enough to deal with, realizing all these steps in letting go of our children, trying to find our new role (let alone the changes our bodies are going through that impact on the other stages of our life).
It's a lesson I don't think young mothers are told they are going to have to deal with - instantly. It can be a shock, and I think there is little tolerance given to us as we stumble through it.
Instead, we get lumped into this category of The Mother-in-Law, with all of the less than tolerant adjectives that go along with it -- controlling, bitchy, evil, etc. (and even behind every one of the MIL's who might deserve those adjectives there probably is a woman who is wondering what the hell happened to her life as a mommy.)
When you add conflict between DIL and MIL -- and we close each other out -- or one closes the other out -- and things escalate and nobody is speaking, and things fall apart. It takes self-awareness and maturity on both sides to deal with this. And despite the credit for that we give ourselves and the lack thereof we assign to the Other Woman, most likely the Other Woman is doing exactly the same.
Maybe it takes some time, it surely takes some easing off of the name calling and blaming.
Meanwhile, in here, most of the MIL's are processing our hurt, anger, sadness, grief -- because in some cases there is nothing that can be done to "fix" the situation, maybe not right away. Maybe never. (or maybe it just feels that way). We try to process our pain by getting it out to each other, rather than to the Other Woman. We try to make each other feel better by listening to each other and nodding and showing how we understand.
At least, that's how I see it all.
AnnieB,
Good post !! makes a lot of sense to me.
I'm asking thing out of genuine curiosity rather than a mean spirit. I've read alot of the forums here and the concensus is the same: The DIL is a powerful being, mean-spirited, hell-bent on causing havoc in her MILs word, she is a control-freak, she is all these things...all these DILs are all the same...
What about the MIL? Are we to believe that all of this conflict between the MIL and DIL is because the DIL is all of the above and the MIL has been a saint? What are the characteristics of the MIL that helps lead to the discord between the MIL and DIL?
I know my faults as a DIL. I'm opinionated and straightforward, my husband and I live far away from my ILs and we don't see them as often, I find that my MIL is insincere and not genuine (note that I said I find). I am NOT controlling (as she would say) but I do arrange my husband and I's social schedule (he doesn't care to), I am not mean but I do say what I think even if it's not the popular opinion, and I am not pulling my husband away from his family, but we do live closer to my family and spend more time with mine.
As a DIL as well as a MIL, I would never want to stereotype either group. In our case, our DIL took advantage of our love for our son. She was sweet and loving until she got what she wanted and suddenly let it be known that we are scum. She doesn't want to do things with us and that makes a relationship with our son difficult. Is there something we've said or done? No, she can't come up with anything specific that we can apologize for or change - she just hates us. Our son still wants to see us; in fact, he sticks up for us to his wife and her parents, which is very hard for him since they are together all the time (work, play, etc.)
Most of us on this site are just plain ol' moms who had put a lot of love and energy into raising sons who are now, for some reason, estranged. It breaks our hearts, and the DILs who think it won't happen to them are naive.
Penstamen: I see a lot of the MILs say that on here "you DILs will see one day" as if it's some curse you place on us. But the reason this board exists is because the MILs and the DILs that are in this situation feel that it is in some way unique and they are saddened by it. Not all DILs and MILs fight. Not all of them hate one another. So if some of us DILs choose to learn from this situation and choose to not put the expectations and "rules" that our MILs may have put on us on to our DILs then we might break the cycle. It is not a destiny that MILs lose their sons to a DIL, it is something that happens due to circumstance, if it was destiny everyone would expect it and wouldn't be shocked that they're in this situation and we certainly wouldn't be wasting our time trying to "fix it"...we'd accept and understand that this is our lot in life.
You know, I just read AnnieB's comment and that made a lot of sense to me.
My MIL is very frugal, doesn't eat out much and never ever vacations. Those three things seem to be the things she attacks me on the most. I'm careful with money but I like to enjoy it some of the time. I earn it and we don't have kids and we're doing good financially right now. But my MIL knows the my DH is very frugal like her so she tries to convince him that eating out and vacations are too expensive. She doesn't swim so she tries to convince him that he might drown if he tries to snorkel with me. We take a vacation involving a plane and she's starts talking about the plane crashing and wishing we would stay closer to home. She doesn't play tennis so she tries to convince its too hot that day for him to play. My DH is 40! I think it bothers her a great deal that we do things that she would never do or doesn't approve of.
Thanks AnnieB for helping we realize that. Now I realize that's another reason why she can't stand me, she thinks I'm changing her son into someone she doesn't approve of. MIL's own daughter told DH that both FIL and MIL are very controlling when it comes to her and her son as well. He's doing things along with me MIL doesn't like. Well I'm sure my mom has noticed habits that I've picked from my DH as well. Does that mean I'm DH's robot as well?
Quote from: Ihopeuknow on October 27, 2009, 08:52:45 AM
I'm asking thing out of genuine curiosity rather than a mean spirit. I've read alot of the forums here and the concensus is the same: The DIL is a powerful being, mean-spirited, hell-bent on causing havoc in her MILs word, she is a control-freak, she is all these things...all these DILs are all the same...
What about the MIL? Are we to believe that all of this conflict between the MIL and DIL is because the DIL is all of the above and the MIL has been a saint? What are the characteristics of the MIL that helps lead to the discord between the MIL and DIL?
I know my faults as a DIL. I'm opinionated and straightforward, my husband and I live far away from my ILs and we don't see them as often, I find that my MIL is insincere and not genuine (note that I said I find). I am NOT controlling (as she would say) but I do arrange my husband and I's social schedule (he doesn't care to), I am not mean but I do say what I think even if it's not the popular opinion, and I am not pulling my husband away from his family, but we do live closer to my family and spend more time with mine.
I think we are not talking about "DIL's" or "MIL's" here.
When we start putting all people into categories, there's where the problems we already have start escalating.
You're not all DIL's, I'm not all MIL's.
All DIL's aren't one way, neither are all MIL's.
I have seen MIL's categorized as all powerful, controlling, bitchy, evil, etc. etc. just as you've seen what you've seen about DIL's -- to buy into that is just silly -- we are too smart to get into arguments and fights about that kind of stuff.
As to the 'curse' about DIL's understanding that day, I think that's putting a spin on what more likely is a comment or an observation related to common wisdom that none of us understand fully another person's situation until we've been in their shoes. (and yes, there are some that say that after being hurt -- they hope their DIL suffers as they are -- I still don't think it's a curse, it's a wish for the DIL to understand and feel some regret).
The irony of life often is that some of us only fully grasp the pain we've caused another when we are in the situation of the person we hurt.
I forgot to make this analogy as well.
The saying "A daughter is daughter for life......." Well I think the reason why that is, is because mothers and daughters do girly things together, like shopping, talking etc. When my dad took me somewhere he took me to the hardware store or something that had to with hunting or woodworking. Oh boy was that boring. Dad and I never were that close. I loved him, but just not that close. But my mom is a total different story. We're close. We go out to eat, shop, go to museums, travel together once in awhile, and talk for an hour on the phone about everything. 95% of this doesn't involve my DH either. He's not interested in hanging with the girls and that's totally fine with me.
Now when it comes to DH and his family. He's closer to his dad. When we've gone out to their house in the past DH will almost totally ignore his mom and talk cars etc. with his dad. I think that sons just don't have much in common with their moms so thats why its easier for that relaltionship to dwindle, especially if their wife doesn't like his mom. What do you guys think? Am I right about that?
Whoa, no curse from me! Just the info I wish I'd had, since I never imagined being treated this way by anyone. With both my MILs I tried to find common ground. I treated each of them with respect and did not stand in the way of their relationships with their sons. One of them liked me, one didn't. I chose to use the example of the "good" MIL when my son married.
Our son has a "guy" thing with his dad, but he and I share other interests. He loves to get into long conversations about various topics that are important to the two of us. I'm the one he calls with news or to make dates (which he's had to cancel due to DIL objections.)
We miss our son. He misses us, but he wants to honor his marriage vows. Please have some compassion for us!
Quote from: just2baccepted on October 27, 2009, 10:02:30 AM
Now when it comes to DH and his family. He's closer to his dad. When we've gone out to their house in the past DH will almost totally ignore his mom and talk cars etc. with his dad. I think that sons just don't have much in common with their moms so thats why its easier for that relaltionship to dwindle, especially if their wife doesn't like his mom. What do you guys think? Am I right about that?
My husband said to me last night that he talked to his mom because he mom was the person that was always around when he was younger, if it had been his dad or his grandmother then he probaby would have talked to them a whole lot and bonded with them. He said for alot of men mom is a great cook, someone to kiss a boo-boo better, someone to do their laundry, to be their suport, to praise them etc. And when you find a wife and she does all of those things it's not that you don't need your mother anymore it's just that you don't need her in al of those realms. He said he might need a Mom meal every now and then or a pat on the back but he's not missing anything only the unconditional love he used to have. He doesn't have that unconditional love because she won't love the other half of him and he feels that if she can't bend for his other have she can't do it for him either.
I recently got my husband to start calling his dad every couple of weeks. He wants nothing to do with his mom because he feels that she's manipulative and controlling...but atleast he'll have contact with his family. Baby steps. He feels he has more in common with his dad now. And that Dad is easier to talk to.
I think the "daughter is a daughter for life" thing may have come from as far back as the bible...after all it says "A son will leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife".
The son I've somewhat lost and I used to talk. I am not a cook and not much for fixing boo boos after age 10 or 11 (sorry). I was a single working woman since the 1970's, and was a vp in sales and marketing. So, yes, I'm a girl, but we also have a lot of similar interrests in the business world, politics, religion, economics, books, movies etc. When the whole family gets together, we all have a good time talking.
That's what I miss. I expect he's missing it too.
But if he has to choose, he has a son he loves dearly and a wife he loves. I'm just sad it has to be "either or" -- which is how it seems to be for now. It was already greatly reduced since they are living abroad. It's sad, but... not the end of the world anymore (as it felt at first).
Quote from: AnnieB on October 27, 2009, 11:19:19 AM
The son I've somewhat lost and I used to talk. I am not a cook and not much for fixing boo boos after age 10 or 11 (sorry). I was a single working woman since the 1970's, and was a vp in sales and marketing. So, yes, I'm a girl, but we also have a lot of similar interrests in the business world, politics, religion, economics, books, movies etc. When the whole family gets together, we all have a good time talking.
That's what I miss. I expect he's missing it too.
But if he has to choose, he has a son he loves dearly and a wife he loves. I'm just sad it has to be "either or" -- which is how it seems to be for now. It was already greatly reduced since they are living abroad. It's sad, but... not the end of the world anymore (as it felt at first).
I'm so sorry for you Annie, you seem like a nice person that would be fun to talk to. And that's great that both have so much in common. I guess the dynamics are just different in my family and DH's family. I know when we were trying to get pregnant I was praying it would be girl because I wanted that same relationship that I have with my mom.
Thanks, AnnieB. Almost my exact situation. We're just asking for some compassion and recognition, and I feel that the DILs here are not understanding that.
I am very understanding of those needs. I'm not discounting them. I just don't agree with everything being said about MILs or against DILs. Understanding doesn't mean agreeing.
Please don't leave, Penstamen....we can say what we want to say here.
Don't you dare leave, Anna!!! I need you. They are trying to help us, I just know it. Stay.
Ahh I knew it would come down to that. Apparently I'm in the poor graces of all MILs because I won't say what they want to hear. Maybe I'm saying things that you haven't thought of. Helping someone doesn't mean you agree with them about everything or that you coddle their every emotion. Helping can be giving the other perspective.
I feel so at home now that Anna's said that...I feel so at my MILs home.
Please don't do this to us. We get enough of this elsewhere. We have nowhere else to go but here and I appreciate all you have to say. We don't have all the answers, that's for sure.
But when you say things that are condescending, it isn't what we need. No one does. We have welcomed you so, please.
I have done my best with my MIL she is "tired of trying" in which case I have to just accept that she doesn't want to be apart of our lives. But don't be so quick to assume that I am cutting her out. My Husband wants nothing to do with her.
Condescending: showing or implying a usually patronizing descent from dignity or superiority
That is in no way what I'm doing. I'm trying to speak for the DILs that's all. I'm trying to say that a lot of our problems come from each party not listening to the other and I'm hearing what the MILs are saying and I'm responding. I figure you MILs have unresolved problems and I have insight just like I have unresolved problems and you have insight. When I respond to you I try to provide a why so that there is some sort of understanding, I however frequently get "you are wrong" not "I think this is wrong because..." I'm sure this site isn't only to complain, isn't it trying to get undrstanding? I want to understand my situation so I can eventually accept it. I don't just want to complain about it.
Quote from: Ihopeuknow on October 27, 2009, 12:46:45 PM
Ahh I knew it would come down to that. Apparently I'm in the poor graces of all MILs because I won't say what they want to hear. Maybe I'm saying things that you haven't thought of. Helping someone doesn't mean you agree with them about everything or that you coddle their every emotion. Helping can be giving the other perspective.
I feel so at home now that Anna's said that...I feel so at my MILs home.
Wow, Ihopeuknow --- can you find specifically where I said things that made you think you are in poor graces with me? Because I didn't see that I was disagreeing with you or pushing you away at all -- in fact, I thought I was finding some common ground.
I think it can be very hard to communicate by writing things down -- maybe we can unravel where the communication in here went wrong - what I said that made you think that, so I can learn what I said that did it.
Really, I think this is how things go wrong between people (not just DIL and MIL) -- I say one thing and think I am being clear, it is interpreted another way, then I'm surprised by the reaction and respond defensively, etc. and we're off and arguing, when nobody intended it to be that way.
No, Anna -- the piece I quoted refers to this poor young woman thinking she is in the "poor graces of all MIL's" -- and I notice that she's not responded directly to any of my posts. I am a MIL, therefore, I feel included in those comments and would really like to know specifically what my posts have said that have led her to feel as she does.
As she says she feels so like she is in her MIL's house, this is exactly how I feel with my one DIL -- I don't understand and am hoping to figure out how somethings I say that seem friendly or harmless to me, can be interpreted as alienating to another.
:)
Annie, Anna and I have had a little back and forth going so I was generalizing based on her and Chickie's last few comments which basically said I was being condescending and not understanding them. I feel that quick response is a failsafe...my own MIL says the same things whenever I am of an opinion that is not the same as hers. I would rather hear why it seems to my MIL and to these women here why they think what I've said is condescending than being told that it simply is. I can't change my behavior if I don't understand what's wrong with it just like my MIL or any MIL can't change hers if she doesn't see what a DIL or her DIL might find wrong with it.
I commend you Annie for asking why...it very well maybe the most important question in the MIL-DIL relationship.