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Problem Solving => Grandchildren => Topic started by: SassyDI on April 27, 2011, 05:12:37 AM

Title: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: SassyDI on April 27, 2011, 05:12:37 AM
Growing up my mother was pretty strict.  I mean don't get me wrong she was fun to be around but we had to be good and follow the rules no questions asked.  Well then she became a Grandmother and its like it went right out the window.  Things DD gets away with my mother would have never let me gotten away with it.(when dd is in her care)  Its like I sometimes ask myself is the same woman.  She also gets mad at me saying I am to hard on DD but I am not harder then she was on me.   That she doesn't like to see her cry.

For example:

My DD birthday was a couple weeks back and she and I were over at my parents house.(DH sadly long story was in the hospital and we went to visit for a while but she got antsy)  Sitting in there basement DD lays down on the ground and begans to kick at my sister dog.  No warning to me was need I stuck her right in time out flat out you don't kick at a dog.  My mom was like really you can't put her in time out its her birthday.  Really so she gets a free pass to kick a dog because its her birthday.  If I had kicked that dog my mother would have been so angry with me she would have well probably slapped me. 

Over at my Aunt's house after my cousin bridal shower last May DD was playing on my Aunt's steps.  I got her off the step and gave her a warning well she climbed up again so I put her in time out.  She had to be place there several times for not listening.  My mom starts getting in my face telling me how wrong I am and that I am making a scene.  Really um I am be claim about this and discplining my child I am pretty sure the only person making scene was my mother.  Then she and my Grandma who well both don't like to see her cry were giving her pop.  Water down like mostly water and I told them that was enough well she wanted more.  I told her no and she began to throw a fit.  Both my mother and grandma are now tag teaming me about how mean I am.  Finally just said were leaving.  Learned later she was talking about me behind my back and that my cousin told her flat out that I am the mother and she needs to let me handle it how I want too.  That she and her own mother(my dad's cousin's wife) also had to learn to step back.

She also tells me when she watches DD that she won't punish her because she is the grandma.  My dh is paralized and really can't do much if she is over or anywhere and I am either out of the room or in the middle of doing something and she see's DD doing something wrong or about to hurt herself she calls for me.  When I ask her why don't you take care of it yourself.   And then goes not my problem my reply was then if its not your problem don't tell me about it.  She use to thank god she stopped doing this thing where I would be sitting right there and DD was little and still unblanced and she would freak saying my name 100 times and I was like dude chill out.

When she is at my mom's without me my mom tells me the stuff she does.  But she refuses to put her in time out she just tells her no.  Which does't work.

So ladies my question to you is why do Grandmother's let GC get away with things they would never let their children get away with.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 05:34:01 AM
I don't think all G-parents do that. I also think that sometimes, after you've been around the block you know  what is an issue and what is not. Other times, because the times have changed, you're not up to speed with the new 'how-tos.' (I believe you were the one that mentioned the rear facing carseat was in issue...yikes!).

I think you were right for  putting DD in time out...kicking dogs is abuse.

I think the "no pop" rule (your DD is 3 right?) is another sensible rule...as there is a huge increase in type II diabetes among children. I realize some people may find it strict, but there is plenty of time for soda later on.

I know you must be in a difficult position, b/c if I were in your shoes, I don't think they'd be caretaking for me. Kids cry; and it's the first thing they learn to do when they're in trouble and you already have that "guilt" button they've learned to press. I'm sorry they are giving you a hard time about your discipline practices.

Their upset with your DD's crying is their problem, not yours.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 05:36:38 AM
SassyDI, my guess is that people change.  My parents had a lot of children (divorces, remarriages) and I have noticed they even parent their own children differently as time goes by. 

They also aren't the parents, so their responsibility lies elsewhere with a grandchild.  And like with my father LOL, you could tell him 50 times that something is bad for DD but until he actually sees it, he just won't believe me.  Maybe believe is a strong word, I think it just does not compute. 
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 27, 2011, 06:04:26 AM
This made me chuckle. Your mom is going to annoy the you know what out of you while you are raising DD because she is the Grandma. I think it is in the job description lol. Grandparents aren't Parents. They aren't supposed to discipline you. It is a perk of being a grandparent. They spoil and send home. Discipline is your job. I'm sure DD will turn out just fine even if G-ma lets her get away with anything and everything.

Psst! Aunts are the same way. We aren't supposed to discipline. Our only "discipline" is "I'm going to tell your mom/dad about this when they pick you up." That should be enough to get the kid to behave lol
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 06:09:42 AM
ADil,

GPs certainly are within bounds to discipline while caretaking..and they can still manage to spoil while enforcing big rules...like no kicking the dog. Besides, I think part of the problem here is that SassyDI is being criticized for her discipline of DD.

Just envision all those kids at the Y that get on your nerves for misbehavior as being with their GPs instead of their parents, since GPs aren't supposed to discipline. :)
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: SassyDI on April 27, 2011, 06:19:14 AM
Quote from: Holly on April 27, 2011, 06:09:42 AM
ADil,

GPs certainly are within bounds to discipline while caretaking..and they can still manage to spoil while enforcing big rules...like no kicking the dog. Besides, I think part of the problem here is that SassyDI is being criticized for her discipline of DD.

Just envision all those kids at the Y that get on your nerves for misbehavior as being with their GPs instead of their parents, since GPs aren't supposed to discipline. :)

Exactally futher it is not my job to discipline for something that happen when I wasn't there.  By the time I got to it she is to little to understand why I am discipling her.  DD just turned three but she loves have sleepovers at my sister's which is an hour away she will spend one to two night with her and her FDH.  My sister doesn't mess around you don't follow the rules you get time out and she also spoils her all at the same time.  Heck she has done time out when I am around.  DD acted out at her birthday party I was cleaning up the food didn't see her throw toys that knocked Icecream onto a guest.  My sister scooped her up not saying a word and put her in time out.  I am not asking her to be a parent either I am asking her to follow my rules.  And butt out of my parenting. 
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: LaurieS on April 27, 2011, 06:36:54 AM
Quote from: SassyDI on April 27, 2011, 06:19:14 AM
I am not asking her to be a parent either I am asking her to follow my rules.  And butt out of my parenting.
Could this statement be a part of the underlying problem?
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 06:40:05 AM
Hmmm...I have mixed feelings on this one.

In your case SassyDI I would think maybe they aren't a good fit for they type of care taking you're looking for. 

I think out of all my DD's grandparents (my parents, her fathers parents and DH's parents) the only one who actually will do a timeout is her fathers parents.  And it's not like they haven't had chances, DD has ADHD so there is plenty of chances to sit her little hyper tuckus in a corner.  It's just been my experience that grandparents don't want to be a parent again.  Or rather they want the fun stuff.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 06:43:37 AM
I do agree, Pam. I just don't think a GP should be telling a parent AS they are disciplining their child that they are too hard on said child.

What message does that send to a kid within earshot?

I think I've said this before, caretaking on a regular basis is different than an afternoon with G-ma once in awhile. I don't mind rules bent once in awhile, but everyday?

Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: SassyDI on April 27, 2011, 06:51:30 AM
Quote from: Holly on April 27, 2011, 06:43:37 AM
I do agree, Pam. I just don't think a GP should be telling a parent AS they are disciplining their child that they are too hard on said child.

What message does that send to a kid within earshot?

I think I've said this before, caretaking on a regular basis is different than an afternoon with G-ma once in awhile. I don't mind rules bent once in awhile, but everyday?

Right they watch her once in a while and take her for a night or two if DH and I need them too.  DD is home with me the rest of the time. 


Pam I don't see how doing time out makes you the parent.  As a former childcare worker I can tell you me putting children in time out did not make me feel like a parent.  If a parent had a rule about the child we followed it.  Even if we didn't agree with it.  I see a grandparenting watching a child no different then anyone else.  Spoil away fine but not to the point of rotten.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 06:58:01 AM
Honestly, unless DD is going to be hurt/get hurt I don't see the harm.  I also use that philosphy in my home.  Now if someone blatantly ignores that, I do not use them as a babysitter. 

I think once you have kids you can't expect everyone to just follow your rules, however it would be nice if they did.  Rather you have to decide if that person is a fit care taker.  It's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.  As the parent, you're the responsible party regardless of who's watching.  SassyDI now you know your parents view on care taking, IMO it's up to you to continue or not. 

IMO it's just an exercise in futility to try to make someone do it your own way.  I agree personally that these things are not OK, I just don't agree with the approach in trying to change your parents or make them do anything. 

Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: SassyDI on April 27, 2011, 07:00:49 AM
Classic example DD standing on a chair was talking to my sister didn't know.  SassyDI DD is standing on a chair and she could fall hurry.  Um ok so in the mean time she falls because what you said nothing?  If it is dangerous take care of it and worry about saying something to me after.  I can only here the ER doctor how did this happen.  "Well my mom noticed her standing on a chair and didn't want to be the "parent" so she told me to come get her."
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 07:04:35 AM
Right, I agree that it was wrong of her to do.  My point is that as the parent you now know that they aren't interested in intervening, even when the situation is dangerous. 

It's one of those situations where you can be "right" until the cows come home and in the end, you'll still be wrong if anything ever happens to DD. 
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: LaurieS on April 27, 2011, 07:08:14 AM
Quote from: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 06:40:05 AM
It's just been my experience that grandparents don't want to be a parent again.  Or rather they want the fun stuff.
Are you saying Pam that they do not want to be disciplinarians again?

Sassydl.. what Holly is saying makes sense.. you are not going to change the person who is watching your child.. I think we just went through this with a poster who by all rights thought that some of the 'rules' were silly and chose to pick and choose which rules she would follow.  To me this would be a typical issue that parents have to deal with when picking a person for childcare.

Is it possible that you are giving your mother mixed messages.. in your example about the chair.. had you not said.. "And then goes not my problem my reply was then if its not your problem don't tell me about it.  She use to thank god she stopped doing this thing where I would be sitting right there and DD was little and still unblanced and she would freak saying my name 100 times and I was like dude chill out."
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 07:08:58 AM
Yeah, daycare follows most of my rules...but there were some they couldn't/wouldn't do. It was up to me at that point to decide if I was flexibile enough to live with that, or switch my caretaking plans.

Forunately, I've decided I was being overtop with my rules anyhow, and I gave in.

This sounds like major stuff you are talking about. Are you in a situation where you can switch caretakers?
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: LaurieS on April 27, 2011, 07:13:16 AM
but is sdl talking about daycare/care givers vs being at her parents for a visit, or vice versa?
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 07:17:55 AM
Lol Laurie, on Pooh's post on that other thread talking about things our parents did could be considered child abuse -- I was nodding and laughing all along.  I don't think my parents were ever interested in being big on discipline.  And yes, I do think most grandparents aren't interested in being disciplinarians, or at least the ones around me.  I don't blame them either, I wouldn't want to be.  My time would be over.

Now there were things that all they had to do was The Look -- but really, we stood on chairs, we climbed, we fell, we went to emergency rooms, we ate crap outside etc.  One summer our hygiene was taken care of by the hose outside. I don't know why but things like a 2 or 3 year old kicking a dog, our way would be to show the child to show the dog love.  Now if its a 12 year old kicking a dog, we've got bigger problems and I would refuse to watch the child.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 07:19:22 AM
Oh and also, I think it's hard to navigate these waters.  Most people are touchy about their children I've noticed.  I'm not going to be the manners police or whatever else for other peoples children, I don't expect them to be for mine. 
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 27, 2011, 07:23:46 AM
Quote from: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 07:17:55 AM
Lol Laurie, on Pooh's post on that other thread talking about things our parents did could be considered child abuse -- I was nodding and laughing all along.  I don't think my parents were ever interested in being big on discipline.  And yes, I do think most grandparents aren't interested in being disciplinarians, or at least the ones around me.  I don't blame them either, I wouldn't want to be.  My time would be over.

Now there were things that all they had to do was The Look -- but really, we stood on chairs, we climbed, we fell, we went to emergency rooms, we ate crap outside etc.  One summer our hygiene was taken care of by the hose outside. I don't know why but things like a 2 or 3 year old kicking a dog, our way would be to show the child to show the dog love.  Now if its a 12 year old kicking a dog, we've got bigger problems and I would refuse to watch the child.

Our grandparents never disciplined us whether our parents were present or not because we were overall good kids and didn't need to be disciplined. I would assume that my parents/IL's will have the same respect when we have kids. I don't think it is ever anyone else's place to discipline a child when their parent is present.

I agree on the kids falling and getting hurt. No you don't want it to happen, but it is probably going to happen more than once. I don't understand "discipline" for a child in an instance such as this. I guess my definition for the term is different.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 07:28:04 AM
ADil,

I assume your GPs didn't tell your parents they were being too hard on you either, if you ever did need discipline. That is another way of respecting parents.

This is a big issue. Kids sense rifts like that and exploit it. I know I did..and I was pretty well behaved.

That's my biggest problem with all of this.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: LaurieS on April 27, 2011, 07:38:14 AM
Maybe I just grew up in a different time... in my youth you were expected to follow the house rules.. no matters who's house you were in.  If you didn't, you were not corrected more then once.. after that you simply were not welcomed.  I know this would not apply to a young child, but ultimately young children do grow up and it's not a bad lesson to be learned.

Of course there is a difference between discipline for poor manners vs keeping a child from harms way.  But as an up and coming grandparent, I'm going to be standing at a cross road wondering just how I should react to ANY and ALL situations.  If I, god forbid, overstep a boundary when it comes to discipline the child could be ripped out of my life forever.. ok that might be an exaggeration but as a grandparent our thoughts, actions, reactions, are at times so micromanaged by our kids and their spouses that it's hard to know which way to turn without getting hit by the mack truck
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 07:40:58 AM
Laurie, that's what I was trying to say lol.  Other peoples houses, other peoples rules.  No use in trying to change them.  It's just better to recognize when it's not going to work for you.

Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: LaurieS on April 27, 2011, 07:43:18 AM
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on April 27, 2011, 07:23:46 AM
Our grandparents never disciplined us whether our parents were present or not because we were overall good kids and didn't need to be disciplined. I would assume that my parents/IL's will have the same respect when we have kids. I don't think it is ever anyone else's place to discipline a child when their parent is present.

I agree on the kids falling and getting hurt. No you don't want it to happen, but it is probably going to happen more than once. I don't understand "discipline" for a child in an instance such as this. I guess my definition for the term is different.
I agree Adil.. a variety of description for discipline is being used here.  To me stepping in and preventing injury is not necessarily discipline it's a common sense correction.. but to many mothers any time you 'correct' a child  you have disciplined them.. I think often it's back to the 'she is my kid' mode that creates so many problems.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: LaurieS on April 27, 2011, 07:45:46 AM
Quote from: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 07:40:58 AM
Laurie, that's what I was trying to say lol.  Other peoples houses, other peoples rules.  No use in trying to change them.  It's just better to recognize when it's not going to work for you.

That's it.. if you can not value the opinion and/or lifestyle of another person, then don't leave your children there.. but you have to at the same time realize that very few people in life will ever fully measure up to what you are looking for.. especially that dreaded man in the mirror.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 07:47:04 AM
I could be wrong and SassyDI please correct me if so --  the way I read it was that SassyDI was upset that her sister didn't just go over and grab DD from the chair, instead sister just said something to SassyDI. 

Personally, I'd just grab the child -- but if it was my child and someone told me, I would probably thank them for noticing since I did not.

Kids fall, they get hurt, they do stupid stuff. 
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 07:50:38 AM
Quote from: Laurie on April 27, 2011, 07:45:46 AM
Quote from: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 07:40:58 AM
Laurie, that's what I was trying to say lol.  Other peoples houses, other peoples rules.  No use in trying to change them.  It's just better to recognize when it's not going to work for you.

That's it.. if you can not value the opinion and/or lifestyle of another person, then don't leave your children there.. but you have to at the same time realize that very few people in life will ever fully measure up to what you are looking for.. especially that dreaded man in the mirror.

Yep.  That's it. 

I do think it's good for children to see a different way.  I don't always agree with DD's grandparents and well, my in laws are a different story -- I don't consider them to be a normal representative of grandparents.  Anyway, I like how my parents didn't limit our involvment with other cultures and people.  I think too many people today are "fear mongerers"  Let the kid experience other stuff, in 18 years they are going to be deciding on their own anyway.  It's not like you're going to be able to prevent them from ever noticing or being around someone different.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 07:52:23 AM
SDI,

It doesn't sound like your DD is around your mom and other family enough that a relaxing of the rules would cause irreparable harm. I think standing on chairs is actualy normal in many households, if not my own.

Also, I think that if someone is telling you to come get your child...they are enforcing the rules....they are just deferring the rule enforcement to you. They're letting you handle it. I would see that as respect, IMO.

As far as the reprimands about your own discipline tactics...have you talked to your mom during a neutral time and talked to her about your feelings about it? She might not know she is doing it.

Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: Scoop on April 27, 2011, 07:52:30 AM
I can see both sides of this coin.  Yes, GP's have a prerogative to spoil.  But they should also obey the parents rules.   If the GK is staying with the GP, then the GP's looser rules can apply, as long as the major ones are kept.  (You know, something like letting the GK stay up 1/2 hour, but not 2 or 3 hours.  Or allowing some candy, but not chocolate or not too much.)

It troubles me that the GM in this post doesn't mind if the child kicks a dog and will do anything to keep the child from crying.  Also, she won't intervene immediately when the child's safety is at stake.  To me, that's not a good care-giver.

I think you need to have a "come to Jesus" talk with your Mom.  You may have to be tough with her, but I don't think you can let her say that your discipline is too tough, in front of your DD.  That's undermining your authority and it's just not allowed.

I can see that you're in a bind, what with your DH's health issues, but sometimes, the cheapest way to pay is with money.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 07:55:09 AM
Quote from: Scoop on April 27, 2011, 07:52:30 AM
I think you need to have a "come to Jesus" talk with your Mom. 

A what?
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 08:03:31 AM
Basically it's a conversation that either the other party sees the light or they get dealt with.  Make or break time.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 08:06:50 AM
Thanks. I really never heard the term before. Admitted heathen.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 27, 2011, 08:13:47 AM
Quote from: Laurie on April 27, 2011, 07:38:14 AM
If I, god forbid, overstep a boundary when it comes to discipline the child could be ripped out of my life forever.. ok that might be an exaggeration but as a grandparent our thoughts, actions, reactions, are at times so micromanaged by our kids and their spouses that it's hard to know which way to turn without getting hit by the mack truck

With some of the DIL's described here, I don't think this is necessarily an exaggeration. If I felt my MIL, or Mom for that matter, overstepped her boundaries with our child, she would get a warning to not do it again, but next time. sorry you probably won't see the kid for a while (Ok, she would get more than 1 warning, but not 150 gazillion lol).
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 27, 2011, 08:14:17 AM
Quote from: Holly on April 27, 2011, 08:06:50 AM
Thanks. I really never heard the term before. Admitted heathen.

It's okay, we will throw some holy water your way lol
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 08:14:56 AM
No thanks, LOL.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 08:16:42 AM
LOL Holly, us kids used to joke that it was better to get caught by Mom, she'd just give you a quick smack and that was it.  Dad would have a come to Jesus talk and he'd talk and talk and talk and talk.  Your eyes would be glazed over and head hurt.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 08:19:14 AM
Quote from: AnonymousDIL on April 27, 2011, 08:13:47 AM
Quote from: Laurie on April 27, 2011, 07:38:14 AM
If I, god forbid, overstep a boundary when it comes to discipline the child could be ripped out of my life forever.. ok that might be an exaggeration but as a grandparent our thoughts, actions, reactions, are at times so micromanaged by our kids and their spouses that it's hard to know which way to turn without getting hit by the mack truck

With some of the DIL's described here, I don't think this is necessarily an exaggeration. If I felt my MIL, or Mom for that matter, overstepped her boundaries with our child, she would get a warning to not do it again, but next time. sorry you probably won't see the kid for a while (Ok, she would get more than 1 warning, but not 150 gazillion lol).

I'm not even a grandparent but I already feel this way.  I'm very careful about who's kids I watch because of this.  I do the best I can but I'm not interested in walking on eggshells b/c I can't follow every single rule.

One of my SIL's didn't let her child feed himself until he was 3 years old, I didn't watch him until he was 3 years old. 
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 08:22:39 AM
Yeah, I am not comfortable disciplining others' children either. Not even in my own home. if I'm babysitting though, I run the rules I plan to have by the parent. Some stuff I just can't abide.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 08:26:28 AM
Pam, I am glad I didn't know what that was, then. LOL.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: LaurieS on April 27, 2011, 08:34:33 AM
Our problem will be the parent thinking I'm an overly strict gp.  I will not allow certain things in my house and I don't care if your daddy's name is Obama.  And there are a lot of parents out there who are raising little mini-me's who are being taught that it's only mom and dad rules and regulations that must be adhered to and worse.. that mom and dad trumps all.

I hope I never hear my son utter words like, yes it's your house but I told little Warren the he could throw the ball indoors.   I think with grandparents it's a no win situation in many cases and it will come from infinite angles. 
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 08:36:13 AM
Quote from: Laurie on April 27, 2011, 08:34:33 AM
I will not allow certain things in my house and I don't care if your daddy's name is Obama. 

I was told by a lady that I asked to be quiet in a restaurant that she didn't have to b/c, as she put it, Obama was my daddy now.

Classy.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: LaurieS on April 27, 2011, 08:41:14 AM
Quote from: Holly on April 27, 2011, 08:36:13 AM
Quote from: Laurie on April 27, 2011, 08:34:33 AM
I will not allow certain things in my house and I don't care if your daddy's name is Obama. 

I was told by a lady that I asked to be quiet in a restaurant that she didn't have to b/c, as she put it, Obama was my daddy now.

Classy.

LOL.. well that is a whole conversation within itself... lol.. 
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 08:42:30 AM
No, actually. She won. Conversation was over at that point. So was my dinner.

I left the restaurant, and the waitress got a $40 tip for my lousy sandwich. I felt so bad for that woman that night.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 08:42:42 AM
Quote from: Laurie on April 27, 2011, 08:34:33 AM
Our problem will be the parent thinking I'm an overly strict gp.  I will not allow certain things in my house and I don't care if your daddy's name is Obama.  And there are a lot of parents out there who are raising little mini-me's who are being taught that it's only mom and dad rules and regulations that must be adhered to and worse.. that mom and dad trumps all.

I hope I never hear my son utter words like, yes it's your house but I told little Warren the he could throw the ball indoors.   I think with grandparents it's a no win situation in many cases and it will come from infinite angles.

I think if someone is determined enough -- they will find anything to prevent a relationship that they don't want occurring. 

When I say I'm the parent, it's my rules I don't mean that globally across the board.  My rules are you go to someone elses house, you follow the laws of the land.  DD knows and is aware that I parent differently than her father and stepmom but she also knows my #1 rule is to respect others.  Their house, their rules.  She also knows rule #1 applies to herself as well, if someone is not respecting her, she is allowed to do what she sees fit in order to correct it. 

Now if I feel it is abusive, then I will be Mama Bear.  Other than that, I think it's doing kids a disservice in not allowing them to participate in life and all the people in it.  How do you expect them to keep a job with people from all walks of life?
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 08:45:27 AM
I agree Pam.
With the exception of hair pulling. I just can't have that. LOL.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: LaurieS on April 27, 2011, 08:48:23 AM
This I believe has become a common problem concerning jobs... To often the 'young' new employees are in such a mindset that the jobs are to change their views to accommodate them.. Circles right back to the whole entitlement program that so many people are not participating in and it all starts at home.

I got that from HGTV.. Start At Home
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 27, 2011, 08:54:03 AM
Pam, I bet she is one well-behaved young lady that people find to be a joy to have around.

It is that "entitled" attitude that is the biggest problem with any generation although it is way more commonplace now. How did this happen? Did suddenly all the parents take a snooze that their children who are now adults became this way? What can we do to prevent it from rolling into the next generation?
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: luise.volta on April 27, 2011, 08:54:08 AM
When you are present, it's your call. When you are not, its "Grandma's way" and don't expect it here! Sending love...
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: Pen on April 27, 2011, 08:54:38 AM
A friend of mine says that her DF was an extrememly strict disciplinarian while she was growing up but just as the OP stated he's been the opposite with his GC. She says he's "an old man trying to get into heaven."

Heck, parents have been known to lighten up the rules from one child to another. My younger sib didn't have the strict rules I had. Things change. But I agree that basic guidelines must be followed by all regular care providers for the sake of consistency, structure and safety. And in my house there may be a couple of new rules due to different circumstances. That is, if I ever get to have the GC here :(

Once at Starbuck's I pointed out to a 9+ yr old kid, who was repeatedly sliding his grimy hands down the window of a display case, that someone would have to come out and clean the glass so perhaps he should stop that behavior. His oblivious mom came unglued and called me a very bad name. Good parenting in action!

Obama's own children seem to be very well-behaved. Just sayin'.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: LaurieS on April 27, 2011, 09:07:22 AM
Pen, Thats cause he has a secret service agent attached to them :)

Quote from: AnonymousDIL on April 27, 2011, 08:54:03 AM
Pam, I bet she is one well-behaved young lady that people find to be a joy to have around.

It is that "entitled" attitude that is the biggest problem with any generation although it is way more commonplace now. How did this happen? Did suddenly all the parents take a snooze that their children who are now adults became this way? What can we do to prevent it from rolling into the next generation?

All ready has ... I don't know why but it seems like my generation was the one that really dropped the ball.  We suddenly became overly sensitive to Johnnies self esteem.  Suddenly molding our children fit into the popular/privileged group seem to be how we gained our own self worth.  We stopped being parents and started being friends.. and sorry but in our time friends did let friends drink and drive and it appears that we were actually began being the source as well.  Somehow we convince ourselves that if we lived through our childhoods then our kids would too and it became no-holds-barred.  How is the next generation suppose to correct it when it's all they know?

I tried and so did many other parents not to fall into this mood, but I think it would be unrealistic of me not to see where my generation did not cause so  many future problems.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 09:09:49 AM
Oh, there is no doubt about that Pen. They do seem very well behaved.

Which is why I can't figure out why this woman chose that argument in the first place. I wanted to bad to say, "Yep, and his kids are quiet as church mice, what is your point?"

Oh well. It all works out. I filled out a survey in favor of the waitress (who was by then, sobbing), and got a $50 Gift card. So, I guess my tip came back 'round.

Back to the SDI's plight...I think some of SDI's rules are there for safety. Kicking a dog? I see two problems with this: 1.) misbehavior, 2.) a dog subjected to that for too long becomes fearful of dogs...and we all know the reaction from fear is aggression.

I'll get off my soapbox now about that...bit of an animal rights/behaviorist.


Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 09:10:06 AM
Thanks so much, ADIL!  I sure hope so, sometimes when people compliment her or her manners I'm wondering if they are really talking about her -- she's a rascal at home.

Laurie, you know what gets me?  In all of DD's sports the losers always get a trophy at the end of the year.  Helloooooo???? You LOST, why are you giving that kid a trophy?  Losing is not trophy worthy.  Hmph
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 27, 2011, 09:11:34 AM
It's funny you mention "Little Johnie's Self-Esteem," Teachers are no longer allowed to correct tests in red ink because it makes the kids feel bad. Really? If they did poorly they should feel bad enough to try harder next time.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 09:12:46 AM
Pen, one time on my way into a gas station I noticed a toddler outside right by the door, digging through the ash tray on top of a trash can.  So when I went in I told the cashier and this lady overheard and said that's her child.  She went outside and berated the child, all I could think was why in the world did she leave a toddler outside of a gas station?  I mean, I'd be happy if all he was doing was playing in an ash tray there. 
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 09:16:09 AM
In the words of my daycare instructor for the 3 years olds...

"Remember kids...second place is really the first loser."

OMW. Terrible.

Seriously, the pendulum may be starting to swing back. I hope so, anyhow. If not, I believe there will always be two competing schools of thought about parenting. I don't know that's been all that different among generations. I think my GPs have a laundry list of people they think were lacking in parenting skills when they were growing up. I see it among my friends too...but there are the "good doobies" out there as Pam puts it.

Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: lancaster lady on April 27, 2011, 09:18:39 AM
GPs are big  softies because they don't want their gc saying they don't want to go to grandma's house because she shouts at me .We want them to enjoy coming to see us .I am not talking safety issues here ,just a bit of spoiling ... and we won't feed them forbidden foods ,that's just not done .We will teach them manners and respect as we did our own children ......and give lots of hugs ......that's my favourite bit ..... :)
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: LaurieS on April 27, 2011, 09:19:15 AM
Quote from: Holly on April 27, 2011, 09:16:09 AM
but there are the "good doobies" out there as Pam puts it.
Oh is a doobie a person these days?
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 09:20:26 AM
Quote from: lancaster lady on April 27, 2011, 09:18:39 AM
... and we won't feed them forbidden foods ,that's just not done.

LL...IDK...I think I've read some horror stories on here about GPs breaking the forbidden foods rule. That's  why I chose not to have a forbidden foods rule. I think in a lot of households, that IS done. LOL!  :)
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 09:21:05 AM
Quote from: Laurie on April 27, 2011, 09:19:15 AM
Quote from: Holly on April 27, 2011, 09:16:09 AM
but there are the "good doobies" out there as Pam puts it.
Oh is a doobie a person these days?

Pam said so in her neck of the woods. I've been dying to say it! LMBO!
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 27, 2011, 09:30:15 AM
Quote from: Holly on April 27, 2011, 09:20:26 AM
Quote from: lancaster lady on April 27, 2011, 09:18:39 AM
... and we won't feed them forbidden foods ,that's just not done.

LL...IDK...I think I've read some horror stories on here about GPs breaking the forbidden foods rule. That's  why I chose not to have a forbidden foods rule. I think in a lot of households, that IS done. LOL!  :)

With my kids we will have the "please don't feed them too many cookies" rule just 1 or 2 please. Why? Because I know my mom and MIL will feed them the cookies anyway! lol

I remember having the "finish your plate rule" and I always followed it. If I didn't I had to eat the stuff cold. Well, one time I didn't finish my plate so mom sent it as leftovers to G-ma's house. She only made me eat half! We never told mom LOL
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: Pen on April 27, 2011, 09:33:50 AM
IMHO teachers are there to teach, not to humiliate; to encourage learning, not grind the slower kids into dust. Students retain more information when levels of stress, embarrassment and fear are lowered (that's been proven.) We haven't banned red ink in my community's district as far as I know, though. That's going a bit far, I think.

Regarding sports, IMHO we have to know what the goal (so to speak) of our kid's sports program is. I put my kids in for fun, exercise, team-building skills, the experience of improving techniques by listening to a coach, and hopefully to fall in love with a sport we loved. Winning, although strived for vigorously, wasn't the main point, so if they stayed in the whole season and met our objectives I was happy they got trophies. They all experienced the agony of defeat and knew who the overall winning team was anyway, since that team got a huge trophy and a standing ovation. The best players were tapped for club teams or spring select.

If your only goal is to win, then I suppose a trophy for participation wouldn't be appropriate.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 09:34:54 AM
You can either be a good doobie or a bad doobie.  Everyone can be a doobie, a person, dog, cat. 
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 09:37:01 AM
Yeah, I do think there is a ton more about intramural sports than just winning. I think the above mentioned daycare instructor was joking, but joking very poorly. I don't think his message was appropriate for an afternoon of soccer.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 09:37:30 AM
Winning is not my objective.  I don't care if DD is on the losing team, time to learn how to lose gracefully.

To me, it doesn't follow natural life consequences.  If at work you're not in top work production, you don't get top pay etc.  In my mind, giving a trophy for participating is the same as paying everyone the same.  Just doesn't work that way.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 09:39:46 AM
Even if the winning team gets the really big trophy, Pam? It's a difference there...or does your team sports club give everyone the same exact trophy?
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 09:43:08 AM
No, they are all the same size and pretty much the same.  The winners get a little #1 carved in.  Big whoop lol

It's just something that I noticed.   Everything always have to be "fair" which I think is wrong.  Life is not fair.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 09:53:52 AM
You ever wonder why those fools go on American Idol and really, truly think they sound good?  (I know some people go on for laughs)  It's b/c someone told them all their life that they are a great singer, that they are a star and really, they could never carry a tune.

I'm all for making people feel good but I think feeling good comes from inside.  Really knowing yourself and your strengths and weaknesses.  Loving yourself even if you can't carry a tune and won't be the next Mariah Carey.  Finding another hobby that you are truly good at or even just like to do etc.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: LaurieS on April 27, 2011, 09:55:04 AM
But why is it not ok when you don't win... no one is going to paint that oversize L on your forehead.  That was one of my reasons for allowing my dd to play serious competition softball.. she did everything in her power not to lose but if she did, it was met with grace and no tears and hopefully no anger or resentment.  Unless children lose how do they ever understand how good it feels when you gave it your best and achieved the goal?  But again it's the balance that we need to strive for.. and to take that win/loss situation and let them apply it to other aspects.

It use to be that the winning team got a free hotdog.. that was banned long ago.. now everyone gets hotdogs.. but then a problem came into play.. there wasn't enough money for all those hotdogs.. so everyone's sign-up fees went up, but then there came another problem.. not everyone could afford the rise in the fees so they gave out softball scholarships based on finances.. so guess what the fees had to go up again because now everyone had to pay for those who couldn't afford it and received the scholarships.  Personally I thought it would have been easier to eliminate the free hotdog to begin with.. not sure where it all begins and where it will ever end.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: Pen on April 27, 2011, 09:59:28 AM
My kids learned how to lose and win gracefully. When the games were over both teams lined up to tell each other "good game." It didn't seem to hurt DS's sense of competition. Even now he plays to win, but is graceful whether he wins or loses. Plus, he madly loves his sport. Yay! To me that's worth more than anything since it is one thing we continue to share as a family.

For us it wasn't about being fair, it was about encouraging other qualities besides winning. The trophies all players got were for participation, which they all "won" at, if you can look at it that way. The kids with natural sports ability rose to the top, progressed through the club teams (where they didn't hand out participation awards, BTW) and on to star in high school & college sports. The kids who only got a little participation trophy in the beginning had no illusions that they too were sports stars. They already knew life wasn't fair since life hadn't given them the same natural sports ability as the "winners."
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 10:10:25 AM
Yeah, I think Pen is right. Those that excel do it regardless of the rewards received or who gets them.  Besides, even with no trophy, I'm rather happy with winning. Life doesn't always hand you trophies for success either.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 10:17:04 AM
I'm not saying that winners get to win rudely.  I think it's just a more natural way, you're rewarded for things you can do better.  That's been my experience as an adult anyway.

But hey, this is coming from the gal who won't let little kids beat her just for the sake of it ;) 
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 27, 2011, 10:19:13 AM
However, if you ARE one of the truly successful people why shouldn't you get rewarded for it. Life is not fair. I think children need to be taught that. If you want something (a trophy), you need to learn to work hard for it and not just have it handed to you. Sounds little like the welfare system to me.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 10:30:26 AM
I think Pen's point was sometimes, those that don't win are working just as hard as those that do. That deserves something special too.

I also work in the welfare system. I just got off the phone with a quadraplegic that had his benefits erroneously suspended b/c the gov't is in a widespread crackdown to eliminate fraud. Someone in my agency thought a man without legs was faking, and now, his family has been without pay for two months in a row.

He works as hard as you or I...but  he is feeding a family of 3 on $7.50 an hour, in Philadelphia no less. I imagine he is well deserving of that disability check, b/c of his hard work and circumstances he has had to overcome. Life has been a peach to me when I consider what he's been through. Unfortunately, his reward happens to be a disabilty check.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: AnonymousDIL on April 27, 2011, 10:35:07 AM
Anywho, my point which I realized that I never stated is lol

If you are one of the people who works hard and is the "best" at what you do, it is very depressing to see others get the same treatment as you. It makes you think, "Why should I even bother? I can work half as hard as I do and still get all the benefits." That's where my comment about welfare was coming from. I know it isn't true of ALL people on government assistance because some work really hard and still can't make it on their own, but SOME of them are really just milking the system and don't want to work. I am ashamed to say that some of them are in my own family.   :-[

Obviously the gentlmen you mentioned needs the help and isn't milking the system. It is sad when good people fall through the cracks.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: Pooh on April 27, 2011, 10:46:13 AM
Weighing in quickly!   As a GM, when it comes to safety or major things, I will still discipline.  Yes, the dog kicking thing would not have been tolerated by me.  I would have explained nicely that we didn't hurt animals.  The second time, would have warranted a time out, birthday or not.  My idea of spoiling is letting them do small things, that maybe a parent wouldn't allow.  Say for example, maybe the parent doesn't let them play with play dough at home because it makes a mess.  I would so buy play dough and let them play with it at my house.  To me, that's things as a GP I would do different that maybe I didn't allow as a parent.  Major rules of a parent I would follow.  And rules I had at my house, I would expect them to follow.  If the parent lets them jump on the bed at home, they still wouldn't do it at my house.

Now, I would never discipline some strangers child in public.  If the child was in danger, yes I would intervene, but not discipline.  I would have a cow if some stranger tried to discipline my child.  I also don't believe in the "wait til your father gets home, or mother, etc."  That sets the parent or parents up to be the bad guys.  They will have ample opportunity to become the bad guys in their own right, when the kids are teenagers so they don't need my help with that.

;D
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: Pen on April 27, 2011, 10:48:39 AM
Again, the children who received participation trophies were all well aware that they weren't winners. The winning teams knew they were the winners, whether they had won by skill, hardwork, the luck of being born with ability, the luck of ref calls that went their way, cheating, good coaching, parental involvement or more likely a combination of all those things.

Kind of like life after all, eh? I know a lot of people who are financially rewarded for less than stellar work, and some for doing no work at all (trust fund babies come to mind.)

Re: discipline, I'd never discipline another's child but I have no problem pointing out repeated rude or inconsiderate behavior when the parent is not stepping in. 
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 10:53:05 AM
Quote from: Pooh on April 27, 2011, 10:46:13 AM
Weighing in quickly!   As a GM, when it comes to safety or major things, I will still discipline.  Yes, the dog kicking thing would not have been tolerated by me.  I would have explained nicely that we didn't hurt animals.  The second time, would have warranted a time out, birthday or not.  My idea of spoiling is letting them do small things, that maybe a parent wouldn't allow.  Say for example, maybe the parent doesn't let them play with play dough at home because it makes a mess.  I would so buy play dough and let them play with it at my house.  To me, that's things as a GP I would do different that maybe I didn't allow as a parent.  Major rules of a parent I would follow.  And rules I had at my house, I would expect them to follow.  If the parent lets them jump on the bed at home, they still wouldn't do it at my house.

Now, I would never discipline some strangers child in public.  If the child was in danger, yes I would intervene, but not discipline.  I would have a cow if some stranger tried to discipline my child.  I also don't believe in the "wait til your father gets home, or mother, etc."  That sets the parent or parents up to be the bad guys.  They will have ample opportunity to become the bad guys in their own right, when the kids are teenagers so they don't need my help with that.

;D

Yes, Pooh. Small things like driving the car up and down the driveway! LOL. (I laugh b/c that is a long standing tradition among GPs in my family). 
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 10:56:54 AM
And, as an adult, I do love my little silly trophies from softball (I was never great, but enjoyed playing). They bring back some fond memories for me. I remember the team members, the coach and the fact that  we usually lost.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: Pooh on April 27, 2011, 11:52:57 AM
Quote from: Holly on April 27, 2011, 10:53:05 AM
Quote from: Pooh on April 27, 2011, 10:46:13 AM
Weighing in quickly!   As a GM, when it comes to safety or major things, I will still discipline.  Yes, the dog kicking thing would not have been tolerated by me.  I would have explained nicely that we didn't hurt animals.  The second time, would have warranted a time out, birthday or not.  My idea of spoiling is letting them do small things, that maybe a parent wouldn't allow.  Say for example, maybe the parent doesn't let them play with play dough at home because it makes a mess.  I would so buy play dough and let them play with it at my house.  To me, that's things as a GP I would do different that maybe I didn't allow as a parent.  Major rules of a parent I would follow.  And rules I had at my house, I would expect them to follow.  If the parent lets them jump on the bed at home, they still wouldn't do it at my house.

Now, I would never discipline some strangers child in public.  If the child was in danger, yes I would intervene, but not discipline.  I would have a cow if some stranger tried to discipline my child.  I also don't believe in the "wait til your father gets home, or mother, etc."  That sets the parent or parents up to be the bad guys.  They will have ample opportunity to become the bad guys in their own right, when the kids are teenagers so they don't need my help with that.

;D

Yes, Pooh. Small things like driving the car up and down the driveway! LOL. (I laugh b/c that is a long standing tradition among GPs in my family).

Yeah!  Like that!   ;D
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: Pen on April 27, 2011, 12:15:34 PM
Quote from: Holly on April 27, 2011, 10:56:54 AM
And, as an adult, I do love my little silly trophies from softball (I was never great, but enjoyed playing). They bring back some fond memories for me. I remember the team members, the coach and the fact that  we usually lost.

I think that's sweet.

Not to beat the proverbial dead horse, or go off track, but a lot of parents were upset when the so-called "short bus" kids got to walk in caps & gowns as well as receive diplomas at high school graduation ceremonies. Their argument was that these kids didn't have to accomplish what the regular ed kids had to; the special ed kids had less-intensive curriculum that covered the same subjects. Walking was one of the highlights of my DDD's life. No one is ever going to mistake her for a normal kid even with a diploma. The normal kids are going to be successful and have great lives, while my kid will likely never have a fulfilling career, independence or a marriage w/children, so how exactly did her graduation affect the graduation/diploma of the regular-ed kids? I think she's been dealt a difficult enough hand w/o taking graduation away from her as well. BTW, she worked hard to get there & had to deal with teasing, bullying, predjudice and exclusion along the way. She totally earned that ceremony and diploma.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 01:06:05 PM
Pen, I agree with you.  Your DD totally deserved all of that.

I do hear what you're saying, some kids try their heart out and should be rewarded too.  My issue is that not all kids actually do.  Some are only there b/c of their parents, some for the socialization etc. 

And like Laurie said, where's the line?  Showing up to  class gets you passed in some schools.  That's not really being nice or kind. 
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: LaurieS on April 27, 2011, 01:07:31 PM
Quote from: Pen on April 27, 2011, 12:15:34 PM
Quote from: Holly on April 27, 2011, 10:56:54 AM
And, as an adult, I do love my little silly trophies from softball (I was never great, but enjoyed playing). They bring back some fond memories for me. I remember the team members, the coach and the fact that  we usually lost.

I think that's sweet.

Not to beat the proverbial dead horse, or go off track, but a lot of parents were upset when the so-called "short bus" kids got to walk in caps & gowns as well as receive diplomas at high school graduation ceremonies. Their argument was that these kids didn't have to accomplish what the regular ed kids had to; the special ed kids had less-intensive curriculum that covered the same subjects. Walking was one of the highlights of my DDD's life. No one is ever going to mistake her for a normal kid even with a diploma. The normal kids are going to be successful and have great lives, while my kid will likely never have a fulfilling career, independence or a marriage w/children, so how exactly did her graduation affect the graduation/diploma of the regular-ed kids? I think she's been dealt a difficult enough hand w/o taking graduation away from her as well. BTW, she worked hard to get there & had to deal with teasing, bullying, predjudice and exclusion along the way. She totally earned that ceremony and diploma.

You aren't Pen.. but what I see in the scenario you set here.. If a student fulfills his/her requirements to graduate, then yes they graduate... But not everyone gets to wear the title of Valedictorian.  Everyone deserves to be recognized for hard work and hard efforts and yes that should be as individualized as the person behind the effort.  And my point is.. It's OK not to be at the top of the class.. it's ok that  you did not get that automatic 5,000 scholarship that came with it.  But to many have gotten into the entitlement mind set.. they did finish school and met the requirements.. where is their money?  And society, seems to be taking that to the next level at times and trying to 'give' everyone a equal share of what they believe they should have gotten.

And in our youth softball.. scores were not kept for the sole reason of not having anyone declared a winner/looser and I'm not talking about t-ball with little tiny babies almost.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 01:13:55 PM
Did you know that law school at Yale doesn't have grades? No class rank either. No special attention upon graduation...just that Yale degree. 

The theory is that those law students worked TOO hard to get into the school to be competitive against one another. Us dummies that went to the  lower ranked schools however, were graded, class ranked and went through all sorts of things to cull the herd.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: LaurieS on April 27, 2011, 01:17:25 PM
yeah I think you had to be at a certain level to get into Yale lol.. who needs to compete at that point.. they are all brilliant..  Didn't one of our members husbands attend Yale.. oh no it may have been Harvard, I don't remember.. wonder if Harvard adheres by the same policies
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 01:18:42 PM
I *thought* all of the Ivies did. I see the benefit, but I see the problems as well.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: SassyDI on April 27, 2011, 01:35:28 PM
Quote from: Scoop on April 27, 2011, 07:52:30 AM
I can see both sides of this coin.  Yes, GP's have a prerogative to spoil.  But they should also obey the parents rules.   If the GK is staying with the GP, then the GP's looser rules can apply, as long as the major ones are kept.  (You know, something like letting the GK stay up 1/2 hour, but not 2 or 3 hours.  Or allowing some candy, but not chocolate or not too much.)

It troubles me that the GM in this post doesn't mind if the child kicks a dog and will do anything to keep the child from crying.  Also, she won't intervene immediately when the child's safety is at stake.  To me, that's not a good care-giver.

I think you need to have a "come to Jesus" talk with your Mom.  You may have to be tough with her, but I don't think you can let her say that your discipline is too tough, in front of your DD.  That's undermining your authority and it's just not allowed.

I can see that you're in a bind, what with your DH's health issues, but sometimes, the cheapest way to pay is with money.

Ok but its not like that at all I don't care how late she stays up, what she eats ect.  If she is at Grandma's but I do expect her to make sure she is following the rules at Grandma's.  If she doesn't listen all I want her to do is a simple 3 minute time out.  Not long at all just sit her down and set the timer and then be done.  Her claim to not doing time outs is because she never did them to us.  Hello she put us in our room for a while and got us out when she felt like it.  Three short minutes isn't going to kill her. 

My mother does care if she kickes the dog she just felt no time out was needed.  Hitting biting or harm on purpose to anyone including animals is time out no warning is needed to me for hurting somone.  The its her birthday doesnt fly well with me at all.

Paying a sitter I really know anyone who is a babysitter.  Futher the only people I leave her with our my sister and parents.  Once my BIL and another friend.  But its not always easy to get them they have lives of their own.  And with my hubby's injury I can't just leave her with him.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: SassyDI on April 27, 2011, 01:43:46 PM
The rules I want to be followed

1. No hitting biting throwing ect
2. No talking back
3. No running in the house/pubic places
Myabe a few more mostly basic rules anyone would have for a child.


I am not asking her to feed her organic food like I do, I am not asking her to put her to bed when I do, ect.  I am asking that she makes sure DD is well behaved while under her care and if she's not give a warning and if still not listening a 3 minute time out.  I know her rules will be different they are picky about their walls not being touched and I make sure DD follows that rule.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: Pen on April 27, 2011, 01:55:00 PM
Quote from: Laurie on April 27, 2011, 01:17:25 PM
yeah I think you had to be at a certain level to get into Yale lol.. who needs to compete at that point.. they are all brilliant..  Didn't one of our members husbands attend Yale.. oh no it may have been Harvard, I don't remember.. wonder if Harvard adheres by the same policies

Some people buy their way into Yale, actually. Not all Ivy League students are brilliant, some have family connections that go way back, endowments that secure their admission, etc. I think that kind of proves my earlier point about winning - it isn't all based on hard work and effort, even in youth sports. A lot of it is just good luck.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: LaurieS on April 27, 2011, 01:55:54 PM
lol.... I hate when people touch my walls.. I thought it was just me.. oh I feel better now

Yes in childhood it's a good time for a person to learn.. keep your hands off the walls.. I have a fsil who needs to learn that.. oh and no sitting on my counter.. I don't care if that is his chair height.


Sdl.. basic rules are not to much to ask  for.. but don't give mixed messages, she may be unsure as to what you are asking on a daily basis.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: LaurieS on April 27, 2011, 01:58:10 PM
Quote from: Pen on April 27, 2011, 01:55:00 PM
Quote from: Laurie on April 27, 2011, 01:17:25 PM
yeah I think you had to be at a certain level to get into Yale lol.. who needs to compete at that point.. they are all brilliant..  Didn't one of our members husbands attend Yale.. oh no it may have been Harvard, I don't remember.. wonder if Harvard adheres by the same policies

Some people buy their way into Yale, actually. Not all Ivy League students are brilliant, some have family connections that go way back, endowments that secure their admission, etc. I think that kind of proves my earlier point about winning - it isn't all based on hard work and effort, even in youth sports. A lot of it is just good luck.

I'm not going to disagree with the luck.. or the unfairness .. such is life  .. but I thought we were talking about the middle of the road, the average joes.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 02:12:13 PM
Quote from: SassyDI on April 27, 2011, 01:43:46 PM
The rules I want to be followed

1. No hitting biting throwing ect
2. No talking back
3. No running in the house/pubic places
Myabe a few more mostly basic rules anyone would have for a child.


I am not asking her to feed her organic food like I do, I am not asking her to put her to bed when I do, ect.  I am asking that she makes sure DD is well behaved while under her care and if she's not give a warning and if still not listening a 3 minute time out.  I know her rules will be different they are picky about their walls not being touched and I make sure DD follows that rule.

I just died laughing at your typo, sorry :) 

Those are good rules.  The only problem it's terrifically hard to enforce some of them, especially with a toddler. 
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 02:13:45 PM
Ivy acceptance is mostly based on whether or not your parent attended. I suspect there are  lots of average people there who get rewarded for the right ancestry. That hurts us little guys more than giving someone a reward for their real best effort.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: LaurieS on April 27, 2011, 02:15:17 PM
It just ain't fair

Oh I didn't catch that typo.. lol.. yeah no running there :)
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: SassyDI on April 27, 2011, 03:02:06 PM
Quote from: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 02:12:13 PM
Quote from: SassyDI on April 27, 2011, 01:43:46 PM
The rules I want to be followed

1. No hitting biting throwing ect
2. No talking back
3. No running in the house/pubic places
Myabe a few more mostly basic rules anyone would have for a child.


I am not asking her to feed her organic food like I do, I am not asking her to put her to bed when I do, ect.  I am asking that she makes sure DD is well behaved while under her care and if she's not give a warning and if still not listening a 3 minute time out.  I know her rules will be different they are picky about their walls not being touched and I make sure DD follows that rule.

I just died laughing at your typo, sorry :) 

Those are good rules.  The only problem it's terrifically hard to enforce some of them, especially with a toddler.

I have LD yeah its so funny.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 03:15:13 PM
SassyDI...you said you have LD? What is that?
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: pam1 on April 27, 2011, 03:21:12 PM
SassyDI, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you have a learning disability.  I wasn't making fun of that or laughing at your struggle.  I was laughing at the typo.  Check my posts, I make them all the time.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: LaurieS on April 27, 2011, 03:27:22 PM
LD is leaning disability

And Sassy there is no way we would have known that.. it was just funny that you wrote  no to let your child run in pubic places instead of public ... it was not a slight to you.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 03:32:23 PM
SassyDI...

I think I posted to you a post where I was referring to "orioles" instead of "people."

I also have typed things like radio clock, "there were Aunts in there" (when it should have been ants) and I get my words confused all the time on here.

And if I am typing on my phone? Forget it.

That's no big deal. Typos are very common. I probably made the same typo you did not once but twice on here.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: LaurieS on April 27, 2011, 03:37:21 PM
and we noticed.. and counted in Holly's case :) 
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: Nana on April 27, 2011, 03:43:12 PM
I answered BrokenHope post....and referrred to her as Brokenheart....lol.....was never correcte but I did realized it after sending the reply.  LOL. 
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: LaurieS on April 27, 2011, 03:52:05 PM
lol... I did too Nana.. she hasn't been here in a while.. lol that could be why

Poor Muffin when I called her muffin top .. now I kinda like muffin top and I voted that she should change her name.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: SassyDI on April 27, 2011, 04:06:15 PM
It was the 2nd one to me in about 24 hours on here.  I tried not to say anything but the 2nd one just really annoyed me.  Had it been more spaced out I probably won't have said a word.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: holliberri on April 27, 2011, 04:43:07 PM
Sassy, I am sorry. I did point out an earlier typo on Monday when you first came on the board, so that was me. I shouldn't have done that when you were so new. I would've apologized a lot sooner had I known it bothered you. You wouldn't even have had to say anything about an LD. I was wrong for doing it, just because I don't know you and I've never had a conversation with you before...you and I are certainly not on that level so I shouldn't have thought it was okay. I assumed that since it wouldn't have bothered me, it wouldn't have bothered anyone else, no matter the reason. Even the girls here gave me a good month or two before they started pointing out my goofs...I hadn't thought about that.

It's okay if you don't accept my apology. I get that. We're certainly not the typo police here, and there are plenty of women on here who didn't point anything out at all, so I assure you we're not nit-picky and we don't make a habit of it.

I say this seriously, as the WORST offender of grammar, punctuation and spelling.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: SassyDI on April 27, 2011, 06:07:36 PM
Thank you Holly.  Food for thought ladies this is a public former your right you didn't know I had LD.  But any other newbie could and isn't it a good idea to poke fun even if it was ment to be nice.  Because you don't know that person's history and you might offend.
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: LaurieS on April 27, 2011, 06:36:43 PM
Sassy.. keeping the room light has helped us to deal with what to some is a pretty dark place at times.  Since this is a public forum of course I think people need to be considerate but what may be offensive to you may not to others.  I mean I was just scolded last week for taking offense to someone telling us that she felt a bm coming on, then it changed directions... yeah I was slightly offended and probably should not have been.

You can not take everything said so darn literally in life.. or at least I try not to .. at times I've failed.. and I think we can all see a difference between making light of a typo vs being offensive.  A little thicker skin always helps in a forum.  No one was laughing at you, we were laughing with you. 
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: pam1 on April 28, 2011, 05:36:44 AM
Sassy,

I truly am sorry.  Laurie is right and I think it's the combination since we can't edit our posts anymore (this happened before you joined) that a few of us think it's funny to point out typos. 

You're right though, I'll probably give a new poster some time to see if they like that kind of joking or not. 

Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: LaurieS on April 28, 2011, 06:11:38 AM
We should have them answer a questionnaire as they enter the forum

1. Are you really new here or did you go through a reincarnation of sorts
2. Do you view life as a mil or a dil
3. What does your real name rhyme with
4.  Please list all touchy subjects, then as Robin Williams character said it "Prepare yourself Effie" 
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: luise.volta on April 28, 2011, 10:21:28 AM
It all comes down to "Take what you want and leave the rest." And if a thread doesn't suit you, move on to another one...or start your own. If a post upsets you, ignore it. We can't custom tailor this forum any more than we can custom tailor life. We try our best...that's all we've got. And for me, my best is apt to shift and change from day to day. Sending love...
Title: Re: I would have never gotten away with it.
Post by: Kennedy on April 30, 2011, 06:17:43 PM
Going back to the OP, Speaking only for myself, I've often tried to be open and honest with "myself" about why it hurts,bothers,bugs,ect. me so very much when my Children have to punish their children?
And to be honest I don't have an answer. I guess I haven't reached  that level of self understanding? It does though! Besides the dangerous things that any person with a brain would know has to be dealt with.But the more simple things such as running,jumping on the beds,writing on the wall. All the things I would of gotten on to my children about! But it just seems no big issue when the grandchildren do it.
I know more tricks now about how to clean off the walls ect.  I do have a  talk with the child. But I don't punish them. Talking is all that I've ever had to do to get through to them though. Maybe if it didn't I would feel differently?
Maybe I'm just to lazy to try to be perfect like I did when I was a young Mother? I honestly don't know?
I follow any and all rules the parents expect to be followed when I know them.
If they say, "No sweets." I just hide it all so it's not a problem instead of fussing on the children. LOL
So reading everyones points of view has been interesting to me.
I am pretty sure our Children know that it just kills me when the grandchildren get into bad trouble? they usually never do it in our home.
Our children don't hit/spank their children just like we never hit them. So that may be why talking about what is okay and what isn't works okay for us? Like I said, I honestly don't have a clue? LOL