My sister and bil have had a difficult time with their ds/dil beginning about the time of their engagement. They were treated quite disrespectfully leading up to the wedding and at the wedding. After the wedding, their ds/dil distanced themselves and at one point dil yelled at my sister over the phone that she "would never see her grandchildren" (this happened before she was pregnant with their only child).
About four or five long years later, they followed the advise their priest gave them and their situation took a turn for the best.
This is what their priest advised:
1. Love them the way they are – do not think about how it would be better a different way. Overlook the things about them that you don't like.
2. Expect nothing. Don't expect visits at holidays, return phone calls, answers to your calls or emails, etc.
3. Offer your friendship and realize that it's up to them to accept or reject it.
4. Appreciate whatever they do for you – no matter how small. Don't focus on how they could have done more or better.
My sister/bil realize that they will never be treated with the love and kindness that their dil's parents are. Even though they live about 12 hours apart, they bend over backwards to run to their ds/dil's rescue when they need help. They are very generous with their time, labor, love, and gifts. They have taken those four rules to heart and don't expect anything, but when their ds/dil offer any type of acceptance or love, they are very grateful. Their relationship has been restored and my sister/bil have accepted the situation as it is. They are just thankful to have their ds/dil/gc in their lives.
At first when they told me about this new attitude/approach, I thought it was so one-sided that it couldn't be a healthy relationship. Maybe sometimes your only choice is to choose a less than healthy relationship or no relationship at all. I was wondering what you ladies thought about this. I really value your opinion.
Hugs, Hope
Hope, this approach is how my DH handles our situation with DS & DiL and it works for him. He's always saying "Let's be grateful for what we do have with DS & DIL instead of comparing what we get with what DIL's family gets." When I listen to him and follow the same advice it works for me too, mostly. There are days when it catches up to me and I mourn what was and what might have been. When I feel envious or hurt, or my sense of justice flares up, I'm miserable. I feel sorry for myself as well as petty and whiney, which just makes it worse.
It's a trade-off, I guess, and the pay-off is time with DS, DIL & GC. To get it we must let go of our need for fairness and our expectations. It's so difficult; I'm impressed by your sister and her DH for making it work. Thanks for sharing their story.
I also beleive this priest's advice would good for a dil who needs to get along with mil and fil.
I wouldn't know unless I was there myself...but if I was only offered entrance into their lives when they needed something...I'd call that being used. I don't know if I'd be okay with that.
Although...it does give me something to think about with my own ils. I can honestly say that they are taking what they can get. They see the kids more now. Sometimes it's just social...but I'd be lying if I didn't say there were times we let them go because it benefits us.
Some things have happened recently where we've had to be in greater contact and even ask for help (DH ended up in the E.R. and they had to pick the kids up for us. [It wasn't life threatening, and it's something they've been through themselves...so they didn't need to be there.]) I've also made some gestures of kindness to my mil lately.
Honestly? I don't want to do it. I don't want to let them back in because I don't want to be hurt or betrayed again. I WANT to keep my distance, and that's getting harder and harder to do. I just don't want to open myself to that again. I'm afraid if they did it again that I would snap and just TELL (not ask, not consult, not give a choice) dh that we are selling the house and moving away.
Thanks, Hope - To me, it's great advice if it works. That's always the test. It's wonderful to hear about wins!! I just love that! Kudos for counseling at its best! :D
Most of the questions on my other site are about "how to have it not be how it is." The truth is that people are how they are until they aren't...(and don't hold your breath.) We can put a lot of energy into resisting that.
Unfulfilled expectations can do us in for sure. Some of the factors at play, as Pen wrote, are each person's tolerance and how much must be tolerated. Some of us can laugh off humongous disrespect and others of us drop in our tracks at the slightest nuance of rejection. (I'm raising my hand here...) Misdeeds can range from a hateful look to situations requiring 911 or some other kind of intervention. Actions (real or imagined) and reactions (normal or pathological) can cloud issues. Human dynamics are a sticky wicket.
I think that's one reason we come here. We can get a different read on situations that baffle and/or paralyze us. We often find understanding...and when we don't...compassion makes up for it. We can sometimes step out of isolation and for many of us, that mitigates overwhelm and promotes healing. Sending love...
It would be nice if indeed everyone behaved in this manner, DILs and MILs and everyone else involved. Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, we can only change ourselves (she says, with wounds still fresh from banging head against wall again.)
Too true, beloved Pen - and changing ourselves is no walk in the park. One minute I want to be tougher and the next I want to be more sensitive. The answer may be...to just be. I wonder...
Sending love...
Quote from: Anna on May 30, 2010, 09:01:29 AM
Just be happy with what you get. Don't expect anything. Wow, what an attitude, this should work both ways. My son & dil have expectations from us. They expect me to babysit while they work, but not to have to give us any extra time with gc, they expect us to help them out when they need it, but not to help us if we need it, so this sounds like I should just do, do, do, & not get anything in return? When you work, do you not expect pay? so when I work, watching my gc, I shouldn't expect pay? Son & dil can't afford to pay me in money, but there are other ways. I love the job of watching my gc, but there are lots of people who love their jobs, & they still expect pay. You can't have everything in your life your way all the time. There has to be take AND give. I consistantly go out of my way for son & dil, go above & beyond. I have adjusted my expectations, I expect way less than I think I deserve. I think it is sad when one is told not to expect anything from their loved ones, be it parents, grown children or in-laws. Do you not expect your spouse to be faithful to you, do you not expect to be paid for a job well done? There are expectations in any relationship.
Anna...I know you and I don't always see eye to eye...but you are right about the colored above.
If your son and dil are willing to take that much help...they have to be willing to give back in return--even some stuff they don't like. If they want everything on their own terms...then they need to find their own paid daycare...and btw...I would NEVER expect someone to sit for me and not pay them. That's wrong, and there's no way around it.
When I want things exactly on my own terms...I make sure I'm taking care of my own stuff my own self. That way I don't have to answer to or consider anyone else. My brother used to borrow lots of money from our parents...and would always get mad when they asked him to do something like mow the lawn or snake a drain. I was like dude---they bought you, you owe it, now shut up and do it.
You can't have it both ways. YOu can have it one, but not both.
It seems to me that there are two (if not more) edges to this; lowering or even erasing expectations is one thing but self-respect is a factor as well, isn't it? Wouldn't it be easy for thoughtless folk to interpret the quiet, (smiling?), acceptance of callous selfishness as an indication that mature, fair conduct is not required? Or put more clearly, isn't thoughtlessness being rewarded? This is a tough one... :(
I used to have this thing where I expected the best from everyone and I'd feel very let down when they didn't live up to my expectations. The best thing that ever happened to me was taking up my career in law enforcement, now I expect the worst and am pleasantly surprised most of the time :)
That sounds pretty healthy. 8)
I think these are very wise words.
1. Love them the way they are – do not think about how it would be better a different way. Overlook the things about them that you don't like.
Love them the way they are. They can't *be* any other way. If you can find it in your heart to love them exactly how they are, without thinking about how they "used to be", *YOU* will be happier. If you think about how it would be better a different way, you are only making yourself sad.
2. Expect nothing. Don't expect visits at holidays, return phone calls, answers to your calls or emails, etc.
Expect *NOTHING*. That means that if you help them, you can't expect them to help you in return. Maybe they will be 'paying it forward', instead of 'paying it back'. If you have expectations that are NOT being met, it's your OWN fault, because YOUR expectations are YOURS.
Part of my problem with my MIL is that she rags on my DH every time they speak, why didn't he call her, why didn't he call her SOONER, why couldn't he speak LONGER, and it makes the phone calls unpleasant for him. So he calls her LESS. What if she were to expect NOTHING and just be happy to hear from him? I bet their conversations would ultimately be more pleasant and more frequent.
3. Offer your friendship and realize that it's up to them to accept or reject it.
I think the key here is friendship. Maybe try and stop parenting and try to be DS's friend. Treat him like you would a friend. You know that your friends are busy, so if they don't call, you don't get upset. And when they do, you pick up where you left off, without recriminations.
4. Appreciate whatever they do for you – no matter how small. Don't focus on how they could have done more or better.
If you appreciate the small things, they might get bigger and better. If you always fuss that it's not enough, and if you even THINK it, they'll feel that from you, you'll never get more. Again, if you focus on how they could have done more or better, you're only setting yourself up for disappointment. It's YOU doing it to YOURSELF, not THEM doing it to YOU.
Aren't perceptions tricky? Like..."She made me cry!" (The same thing might have "made" someone else laugh!) :o
Yes, expectations play a big role in relationships. Only God loves us the way 'we' want to be loved. Everyone else will let us down at some point in life.
I found this verse when I was feeling hurt at behavior by my DS and was deciding how to act towards him and his family 'from now on'.
Ecc 11:6
In the morning sow thy seed, and in the evening withhold not thine hand:
for thou knowest not whether shall prosper, either this or that, or whether they both shall be alike good. (Be not weary of well doing. You don't know which of your works are most agreeable to God.)
To me, I saw the 'withhold not thine hand' as picture of me extending my open hand full of love to them. They have the decision to take it or shun it, but I choose to give.
Hi, GP - I agree that we can't really love unconditionally. That's just my take, of course, but I think we're too human...and we probably all have a place where we will draw the line. If we haven't reached it yet, we may look (and feel) like we love unconditionally.
I got to that place with my "ex." He fessed up to a three-year affair and I moved on. I thought I loved him unconditionally but I was mistaken.
The religious references make a good point but we need to always remember that there are many faiths (and also the lack thereof) on a forum like this. Many individuals from varying countries and backgrounds.
And by the way, I also think our dream of unconditional love is often why those of us who are dog lover's got that way. It seems to me that those little four-footed angels know how to do it. Anyone agree with that?
Thanks for the great input, everyone! Speaking of four footed angels, my DH and I were dog-sitting our granddogs Friday through today. It was the first time in five years we were given the opportunity from ds/dil to watch their dogs (it has always been bestowed on dil's parents even though I have offered). In a much earlier post I mentioned that I hoped we would not be promoted to dogsitters and our dil's parents promoted to babysitters in mid July when our first gc is expected to make his/her appearance. Anyway, I was so preoccupied with our granddogs that I didn't check the forum till now. Our granddogs took us on about 15 walks during their stay (we don't have a fenced in yard) and my legs are sore from bracing myself from being thrown into a 100 mph walk (they are both pretty big dogs). I agree with Luise that pets have unconditional love mastered.
Your various responses were very interesting. Even though the priest's advice carries wisdom, I think in order to have a healthy relationship the give and take must go both ways. I understand that sometimes the only choice we have if we want to stay in a relationship is to give, give, give. I also agree that it is very difficult for people to make changes in themselves and you will most likely be disappointed if you expect them to do so. At least my sister/bil's son and dil are being kind to them now. They may not offer to help them in return for their good deeds, but at least they visit with them more when they are in town and they send them flip videos of their gc and extend an occasional invitation for them to visit (however, they expect my sister/bil to stay in a hotel even though they have two spare bedrooms). Things have improved for them and if it keeps improving who knows what may transpire? Maybe even a HEALTHY relationship? We can only hope.
I agree that expectations play a big role in our satisfaction in a relationship. I find myself expecting common courtesy or good citizenship from people in general and get let down all the time. My expectations from our ds/dil have pretty much fallen to zip so I have not had my feelings hurt for a while. I know it will be difficult to control my expectations once our gc is here. That's a love that just might spin out of control. I will probably be looking to lean on you ladies a lot once that little bundle is here.
I loved hearing your opinions on this topic and am open to hearing others if anyone else would like to share. You are amazing women! Thanks for sharing your wisdom.
Hugs, Hope
Hope:
I think so very much like you do. To have a healthy relationship is about giving and taking (at least some). My expectations on my children are not very high. My married son is very sweet though sometimes unthoughtful. I give much more than I take and I have no problem with it. At least when I take some, it makes me very happy. Our children will pay it forward to their own chjildren. It is a law of life. After a tortuous relationship with my dil, things started to straighten up. Now, things are pretty good. My dil comes to me with a big smile , she is much more relaxed, she says thank you and is not so picky anymore. As long as I dont give her children (my grandkids) with candy or chocolates, she is fine with what I do. But as sweet Luise said.... In not expecting nothing from our sons/dil, yet there is a line. I do expect some things and will not settle for less. What is that I expect? Respect, appreciation for what we do (hubby and me), liberty to take our grandchildren out while in our care. That is what we have now and I thank God everyday for this opportunity. What we dont do: We do not visit if not invited. We do not try to advice them on how to manage their lives or that of our dear grandchildren. We do not call their home or their cellulars if we do not have something important to tell them. What do we give: Everything we have. Our love, babysitting as they wish (sometimes it is much too often ja ja), they come to have lunch with us at least saturday or sunday or both days. We are attentive to their financial needs and we jump up to help them, we are constantly buying things for the kids (clothes and toys). You name it. So it not too much to have a little expectations from them. As Luise says....we are human.
There was a time when I just gave, gave and give again. But I got nothing. Well, I did....I got hit, hit and hit again. I did snap... And having snap worked for me. I took off... I quit. I said NO MORE. ENOUGH. And that, thank God... changed my dil attitude towards us. I really got lucky. When she spoke to me about the problems, I said to her. "" How have I offended you? What have we done wrong? When have we interfere in your lives ? When were we all over you? We just step in when you needed our help. I added Ï only wanted ÿou to let me be your children'S grandmother.
HOPE: yOU will get all these dellis of life that we need and deserve from our children. When the little bundle arrives...you will certainly get to savor the joy of being a grandmother.
expectations....cant live without them!
I hope the best for you.
Quote from: penstamen on May 29, 2010, 09:47:03 PM
Hope, this approach is how my DH handles our situation with DS & DiL and it works for him. He's always saying "Let's be grateful for what we do have with DS & DIL instead of comparing what we get with what DIL's family gets." When I listen to him and follow the same advice it works for me too, mostly. There are days when it catches up to me and I mourn what was and what might have been. When I feel envious or hurt, or my sense of justice flares up, I'm miserable. I feel sorry for myself as well as petty and whiney, which just makes it worse.
It's a trade-off, I guess, and the pay-off is time with DS, DIL & GC. To get it we must let go of our need for fairness and our expectations. It's so difficult; I'm impressed by your sister and her DH for making it work. Thanks for sharing their story.
Pen, I'm sending hugs...I think when Our sons get married, we expect things to stay the same...we expect that our DIL's are going to be just like our sons, love and respect us unconditionally...
We also have dreams and huge expectations that, now we have a larger family, however, we forget that "the person" our son's marry is they're own individual person, with a family to...
When our expectations are not met, or when we're hurt or let down, b/c they spend so much time with her family and/or friends...well, it hurts, and then we become angry...jealous, etc...
I've experienced the very same thing with my son and his father and step mother....so I know that kind of hurt and disappointment...
then, there is also her mother and step father to consider as well...so, it's hard for them, however, I will give them credit....they attempt to make the rounds when they do come home...and I tell you, true, they are to be commended for that....must be awfully hectic for them....but they do seem to enjoy it....otherwise, they wouldn't come home....
But, I do know and understand your feelings Pen....I do.
Thanks, Creme..I'm really trying to let the little things go. And there are a lot of little things! This past visit did contain a bit of criticism, and I didn't bite although obviously I was aware of it since I'm mentioning it now, LOL. I completely forgot about using "Is that so" as a response; I'll have to write it on my calendar next time ;)
Thanks for understanding and for the hugs. Back atcha!
Luise makes an excellent point that taken to the nth degree, we sometimes cannot love and accept unconditionally. Luise, I hate to use that overworked word "abusive" but it seems your ex would qualify in that category. At the least he was disloyal and deceitful and you decided to have no further expectations of him at all vis a vis leaving the situation. Having "no expectations" to you at that time did not mean sitting around accepting what he had done (and might have done again.)
Here's one thing I have been thinking about and these posts brought it back to mind:
What are these parents teaching their children, our grandchildren, about how to treat people, if one set of inlaws is so favored over another? My husband says that given five more years, my granddaughter will be "just like her mother and not someone I want to know." What do you all WWUers think of this? Children follow examples, don't they? Will my granddaughter become a liar, a spenthrift, a manipulator, and a person who takes real pleasure in cruel behavior toward others? Will she do the same thing to her husband that my DIL is doing to my son? (Again, and each time I write of this please know I do not hold my son blameless for what has happened.)
Sometimes I think my DIL would make a great Lifetime movie: a sociopathic Elizabeth Taylor-like beauty who charms and then disarms, stabs behind the back whenever possible, and enjoys extorting money from her in-laws.
I agree about no expectations and have come to that point. At the same time, I do not accept my DIL's behavior and my husband two years ago reached a breaking point of inability to tolerate it. We can leave it be, we can even go on loving our son from a distance, but to us that does not mean that we participate in, continue to accept and therefore support DIL's sociopathic behavior.
Baskets of flowers to you Hope, I keep my fingers crossed all this works out for the best.
Kathleen
You know, Kathleen, it's always been a mystery to me regarding what role models are picked. Great kids (and eventually wonderful adults can come from a home full of pretty nasty examples. Maybe there are children who can discern that the available examples are not to be followed. It's a "puzzlemnt," isn't it? Keep you fingers crossed!
Kathleen,
Thanks for the good wishes.
I've seen what Luise wrote about happen as well.....people living with poor examples and rising above it. Creme wrote about her experience - being determined not to be like her biological mom. I hope and pray that your granddaughter has more exposure to you so she can have a good example to emulate. Oh, and thanks so much for the basket of flowers - mmmmmmmmmm, they smell fragrant!
Hugs, Hope
Luise and Hope,
I hope you are right and my granddaughter will turn out to be a good person. However, she is so saturated in my DIL's family that I don't think there will be another influence ever allowed. Her other grandparents lived with them for two years then bought a condo very close. Every weekend is filled with family events. If children learn what they live, as that poem goes, she will be a super clone.
I also thought about something in relation to your comments about religion and tolerance, Luise. I have come to see this one-sided cutoff business as a form of bigotry similar to mistreating others simply because of their religion, the color of their skin, or any other reason unconnected to who we really are as human beings. What else can you say about people who practice terrible unfairness toward in-laws simply because they ARE in-laws and not related to the family by blood?
Flowers,
Kathleen
Yes, Anna, we are related to our gc, but my three-year-old granddaughter is not the one doing the cutoff. It's my DIL and son, mainly DIL. In the beginning my son tried to include us far more but I think he has just given up.
Also, my son in all this was adopted and I have often wondered if that is a factor in any of this. I wonder if it was a mistake to have an adopted
child with two biological children, if that made it harder for him. However, his genetic makeup includes a biological father and mother who walked out on him at birth---and both were highly educated (Ph.d and a Master's degree) and certainly not desperate financially. I wonder if there's a gene for abandonment.
I do see what you mean,
Kathleen
Anna, wow, you are giving me hope. How wonderful your husband must be to have overcome so much in his childhood to turn into a great man.
Maybe it IS possible our granddaughter will arrive on our doorstep one day wanting to know us. Maybe she WON'T turn out to be a clone of her mother and other grandmother. I hope.
Good for you that you married such a terrific human being.
I don't know what to say about your MIL making negative comments about your husband's father. My parents were divorced and my mother used to do this, too, and it always hurt me. Yet I somehow never had the courage to ask her to stop.
My husband researched studies on adoption and the latest studies show that genetic factors are more prominent than environment in the way personalities develop and mature (or don't.) A study of separated twins showed incredible similarities, even though the twins had individually been raised in completely different environments. Of course, a negative environment can certainly influence and bring out the worst. Food for thought,
Kathleen
Quote from: kathleen on June 01, 2010, 01:30:59 PM
We can leave it be, we can even go on loving our son from a distance, but to us that does not mean that we participate in, continue to accept and therefore support DIL's sociopathic behavior.
Kathleen, that has got to be the most 'eye-opening' statement that has reached me yet on this site. Thank you very much for putting into one sentence how I have been feeling.
Anna, I know exactly what you mean. I used to make excuses but then I ended up feeling resentment towards her because I felt like she was putting me in situations that I had to make her excuses and I felt like I was a liar (and I hate liars). It finally dawned on me that she wasn't doing it to me, I was doing it to myself. Yes, she was creating the situation, but I was choosing to make excuses for her actions. And in my soul-searching I realized I had done that for my ex-husband for 20 years. I always made excuses to family, friends and his own sons for his irresponsibilities. I was repeating a pattern. I did it. No one made me.
Now, I don't make excuses for her, but yet it comes off that I am bad-mouthing her. I still haven't figured out how to not make an excuse, but not sound negative about it. I tried to say something like, "I'm not sure why they are not here, you will have to ask them", and that came out like I didn't care what they were doing. "I really don't know," comes out as I don't care and I am lying because I do know. So I am still struggling with what to say. Everything I can think of either sounds callous, another excuse or if I tell the truth, it would be bad-mouthing her. And I don't want to do that either. Maybe someone here can give us a good statement to use?
And you are right Anna. People figure it out on their own eventually and come to their own conclusions no matter what we say.
This has been tricky for me as well. DIL doesn't want to see our friends, so I've had to disinvite them to celebrations at the last minute when DS & DIL have suddenly decided to show up for something they'd previously declined to attend. When DS & DIL had just gotten married I would say, "We're working on building a relationship with DIL, and things have been tense lately. Thank you for understanding." I can't use this excuse forever, and I don't want to hurt my friends feelings. These are people who have loved and supported DS all his life.
Right there with you Pen. I was saying, "You know how newlyweds are?" for a while, but that one's time is up. And you are in a tough situation. I can understand where you are taking any opportunity to see DS, but hate having to hurt lifelong friends to do it. I truly do understand wanting to see DS, because I am that way too because I see him so rarely now.
How unfair and selfish they are being. Now this is where I am constantly learning, and this forum has helped me see much of it. I am going to have to take a stand at some point and so are you. We are going to have to get through our thick, loving skulls that we can't change them, no matter hard we want to. But that doesn't mean we allow them to run over us and abuse our love for them. And that is my reality check for the day.
When you have to do this, are you truly enjoying the time with them or feeling bad, hurt and resentful because you know you possibly hurt your friend's feelings to do it? I am only asking this because that is what I do. I cooperate with DIL's demands to get to see DS and then end up feeling bad the entire time, or afterwards because of what I had to do to cooperate.
June 1st quote from Nana:
"HOPE: yOU will get all these dellis of life that we need and deserve from our children. When the little bundle arrives...you will certainly get to savor the joy of being a grandmother."
Nana - so sorry for the delay in responding to your thoughtful reply. I read your entire post with interest and I'm happy that things have improved for you after drawing the line with your ds/dil. Sometimes I think we are "tested" to see how we will allow others to treat us. You passed the test with flying colors!
Our gc is due in a little over two weeks. Our dil looks as cute as can be as she nears her due date and I hope and pray that her delivery is as uncomplicated and painless as possible. She has been more emotional due to the pregnancy and her hormones playing havoc with her. I'm excited to experience first hand the joy many of you have described and I'm trying not to hold my expectations too high for fear of let down.
I'll keep you all posted.
Hugs, Hope
Dear Hope:
:)
I am so very happy you answer my post. I stopped posting (eventhough) I read all the posts which are very interested and I like and agree on most advices given here. I also stopped posting because I was feeling kind of invisible when I posted and no one made a comment on my posts. I love this site and know that here are many wise women who have beautiful and wise answers. We are here to vent, help. I just was a little intimidated on one of my post answered by creme, which I think did not mean to hurt me but she quoted many of what I posted and maked a contrary opinion on what I felt. I realized it wasnt personal. It was just the way she thought. I just dont think that we as mil should take responsibility for asking to be included in our son's life, and that we had to understand we did things wrong even if we didn't realized it. I know for a fact that this is not the case of most of us mils. And I know this for a fact because now that I have a good relationship with dil she has told me that she finally realized that she feared that I would maybe try to be intrussive in her life with my ds and that that is why she was pushing me away, but that now she has realized that we love ourl gc and we are always there for them when they need us. No more, no less.
I do think though that our expectations should not be very high because it can result hurtful. If we get more that we thought...what a blessing! But other hurtful attitude fom our son or dil is just unacceptable and should not be tolerated as Belle (I admire Belle) expresses in her posts . I will never again accept my dignity to suffer unfairly. We need to have dignit even to die. People's right end where my rights begin. They have the right to act or feel as they wish but so do we mils whose only fault is to b the mother of our of dil's husband.
Keep us posted on the birth of the baby and I do wish that you enjoy the new baby. Just expect what is just and fair. I do keep you in my prayers that you will be crown with all the blessing a new grc brings to your life.
Good luck to you, in this beautiful adventure.
God Bless you always!
My mil is 90 and is one of my best friends.
I wondered where you went to Nana. I have been missing you. :'(
I'm glad to know everything is still going well with you!
Hi Pooh
I have been here all the time. Every evening I am here and read all your posts. I just havent post anymore. I am addicted to this site (thanks Luise). I really feel that we are all united with the same issues. Some of us have resolved and some havent. But the problems brought up here are my concerns because I was in the same shoes as many here.
I hope you are also doing fine and thanks for your post.
God Bless you always!
Quote from: Hope on May 29, 2010, 09:11:16 PM
My sister and bil have had a difficult time with their ds/dil beginning about the time of their engagement. They were treated quite disrespectfully leading up to the wedding and at the wedding. After the wedding, their ds/dil distanced themselves and at one point dil yelled at my sister over the phone that she "would never see her grandchildren" (this happened before she was pregnant with their only child).
About four or five long years later, they followed the advise their priest gave them and their situation took a turn for the best.
This is what their priest advised:
1. Love them the way they are – do not think about how it would be better a different way. Overlook the things about them that you don't like.
2. Expect nothing. Don't expect visits at holidays, return phone calls, answers to your calls or emails, etc.
3. Offer your friendship and realize that it's up to them to accept or reject it.
4. Appreciate whatever they do for you – no matter how small. Don't focus on how they could have done more or better.
My sister/bil realize that they will never be treated with the love and kindness that their dil's parents are. Even though they live about 12 hours apart, they bend over backwards to run to their ds/dil's rescue when they need help. They are very generous with their time, labor, love, and gifts. They have taken those four rules to heart and don't expect anything, but when their ds/dil offer any type of acceptance or love, they are very grateful. Their relationship has been restored and my sister/bil have accepted the situation as it is. They are just thankful to have their ds/dil/gc in their lives.
At first when they told me about this new attitude/approach, I thought it was so one-sided that it couldn't be a healthy relationship. Maybe sometimes your only choice is to choose a less than healthy relationship or no relationship at all. I was wondering what you ladies thought about this. I really value your opinion.
Hugs, Hope
Maybe we should go back in time. What were we like when we were first married.
Our goals and outlook on life were differant to our MIL's. We were starting out,they were retiring.
MIL's have time on their hands while the younger generation have their life crowded with work,babies housework. The demands are endless
We as MIL's and grannies(I am not one yet) cant spend the precious years we have left sitting around waiting and dwelling on having our time filled in by children,their wives etc.
This is the time for us to pursue our own interests. We are free do do so.
Ofcourse we miss the full house and suffer from empty nest syndrome but I am absolutely sure that if,from the very beginning of our children and their wives or husbands lives together we let go entirely problems would not arise and
unfortunately when something happens to harm a relationship it becomes very hard to mend.
If we sow a seed of discord we reap the same. Sometimes we do it unintentionally. Young people are far more sensitive than us.
Prevention is better than cure.
My son is here for the world cup and tonight he gave me a chocolate with "I love you" written on it.
He has stayed at home while in South Africa but I do not demand any of his time.
He has friends to see --this is bed and breakfast but I love having him here and he has set aside a couple of days to spend with us.
I feel happy. I am happy he has friends. I am happy that he is enjoying himself. I am happy he can afford to attend the world cup by paying his own way. I am happy he has a good job. I am happy that his FIL's love him. I am happy that he is alive,independant,handsome,healthy.
What more can I say.I am happy he is off my hands YIPPIE !!! ;D ;)
Glad to see you, Nana: I am not posting much because things are getting harder and harder with Val in nursing. I'm not going into it here because there is a topic about that. Sending love...
Catchingup,
Thanks for your input. I agree that it's wise to pursue our own interests when we have adult children. What threw me into a tailspin was when I realized that my ds was acting like I didn't exist - not answering my phone calls, not initiating any contact with me, not answering my messages, and occassionally speaking to me with a disrespectful tone on the few occassions I did see him. I think it's helped to take a step back and stop trying to initiate contact. I am still very kind to him when I see him at gatherings and we have been generous to him and our dil with the coming of our new gc, but I will continue not to hold my hopes high. Like Nana said, "If we get more that we thought...what a blessing!" I agree with what you said, too, about letting go from the very beginning of our children's married lives. Makes sense. I just always thought we would act as a family - show concern for each other. It really helps me that our daughters are so good to us and enjoy our company. We see our od every week and usually hear from our yd every day which is great. I loved reading about how your son gave you the chocolate with "I love you" on it and how he reserved a couple days to spend with you during his visit. I'm happy that you are happy!
Hugs, Hope
Hope. Thank you for the reply. The biggest reason I am glad I found this site is because I have learnt so much from other peoples bad experiances and it has perpared me for what might happen in the future.
The son I refer to here is the one who's future wife does not like me.I just could not get through to her which makes it difficult for her to get through to me.
She is also here for the world cup and the other day my son invited hubby and I to lunch with his girlfriend.
My first thought was I will not speak unless I am spoken to. Wont ask questions and if possible answer either yes or no.
When they arrived here a couple of problems arose re my home business and not wanting to have it prey on my mind at lunch I decided I would sort it out before we left.
It held us up but it was a matter of finding paperwork and making phone calls.
When we sat down to lunch she started asking me about my business. She is an accountant. We got chatting about investments. Which antiques are the best to invest in. What do I think of gold coins?? etc etc while Dad and son were talking about something else.
What a change. We spoke about her job and what her duties are.
I think sometimes when the focus is off ourselves or ego--personality part of us or how we think think others should live their lives and vice versa it is easier to get along
I am still wary of her but this was progress .At least we did not have the deathly silence between us.
The world cup has been a very exciting event and South Africa has done us proud. If there have been hitches I do not think it would be worse than any hitch other countries have.
When son goes out at night I do worry. Dont sleep till he arrives home safely
Somrtimes that is 2am.
Last Night he arrived home at 12.30 just after midnight. I said Shhhhhhh Dad is sleeping.
So he picks up this Vuvusela (this noisy thing they have been blowing at the world cup) and blow it loud.
The two of us started laughing and ofcourse his father woke up. He comes through and says"What is going on here?"
"Go back to England."
Hope I sincerely believe that adult children eventually come round. They mellow as much as we do.
Keep on hoping. Close your eyes and imagine the lord is touching his heart--keep on praying.
The more I try to be perfect the more I realize I am not perfect.
I may as well just be myself.
It is a lovely winters day in Cape today so son asks whether we would like to go out somewhere
for the day.
Ten minutes later friends phone and when he gets off phone he says "So and so wants me to ...but I offered to take you and Dad.
I said "What is the use of rapping with wrinkles go out with your friends. And he did.
Catchingup,
It sounds like things are going along well between you and your ds/fdil. The visit you had over lunch was a big success! You and your fdil found something you enjoyed talking about and I like how relaxed and playful you are with your ds. Enjoy the remainder of his visit and keep us posted.
Hugs, Hope
I agree with you Hope (and the priest) to love your adult kids unconditionally, but sometimes its so hard. Sometimes as a parent to an adult kid (woman) in my case. She makes it hard when she gets hateful and uses the grandkids to hurt me. The saddest part is, the kids didnt cause pain or harm to either of us, and they are the ones who suffer the most! Im sure like the rest of you, that being a grandparent made life worthwhile in so many different ways? That sad part is, my daughter just up and removed herself and her family from our lives. She was my jury, she convicted me, and she sentenced me to solitary confinement! All because she has many insecurities that her and sil cant seem to overcome. Its been 90 days since we saw the gkids and since then I have been reading many helpful books to help me get through this. They have been very helpful, but I find you still need others to communicate with and understand the pain. Do I love my daughter, oh yes with all my heart still, but I dont like her right now!
Teiph,
Welcome to our piece of heaven! You are in a sorrowful situation and I feel your pain coming through your post like a ton of bricks. You have found a great place to share and find friendship and understanding. My heart really goes out to you with the separation from your dd and gc. It sounds very selfish of anyone to take away your loved ones and leave you standing there with your arms open and your heart broken. I believe that she will be back with your gc. I wish you could all go to counseling and work out the problems so that at least you have heard each other out and hopefully worked out any misunderstandings. Maybe one day you will have that opportunity. Please keep posting. There are a lot of wonderful women on this site with a lot of wisom and big hearts. You are in for a pleasant surprise.
Hugs, Hope
Thank you Hope for those kind words. Man do I appreciate them! Maybe its because my wounds are still so fresh, that I am harboring resentment towards my dd and my sil. I have to always stop and remind myself that I love them very much, Im just not happy with the situation they put us all into. Coming here helps me stay on track and it gives me ideas of how to approach the situation. As for one day maybe being a family again, Im still pretty hopeless about that one! DD is very stubborn too, but she does at least have common sense. Plus my sil doesnt seem to care about having a family, as his was not involved with him as a child. His is a sad situation so that would make one think that having gp's around for his kids would make things much nicer!!!
Its like many others here, he wants to seperate our dd from us completely. Im thankful he is a good man to them, as he does love them very much, he is just selfish!
Teiph,
My od was married once to someone who tried to keep her from us, too. We weren't totally cut off, but he sure made things difficult. I sympathize with your plight and we are here to give you support and comfort. Hang in there.
Hugs, Hope
It seems to me that expectation is as normal as blueberry pie. It just doesn't enter our heads to sweep them clean when our kids marry. Around us it may look like other families are merging and expanding joyfully, why no ours, if we gave it every good thing we had to give? All will be well, right? Not necessarily. There's a lot to factor in beyond our own personal contributions.
It took me a long time to even consider that "what is, is what is" and my expectations might not be met. However, I have been a lot more comfortable since that sunk in. Sending love...