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Hi everyone, I am new today and wanted to introduce myself.  I am nearly 60, one of six sons married and that now I have 2 GK.  I am living on the west coast and my son and his family moved to the east coast recently.  I have enjoyed my sons and worked through most all issues.  There is this new role, grandmother, that I struggle with as my own grandparents died by the time I was 9 and didn't see them often because of distance.  Learning to be a grandmother is a role I am creating.  My issue for discussion and support, is that my son and his wife expect when I come visit that I help out.  Of course, I have been helping out.  What I don't like is feeling I have to help out.  What that looks like is hearing that I should get up when the GK get up and help watch them...also along with visiting I am expected to cook meals.  Don't get me wrong, that is exactly what I have been doing when the GK were newborns, toddlers.  They are now 2 and 4.  My question is:  What do you think are realistic expectations for grandparents to do when they visit?  We have definitely got water under the bridge on this one.  I am staying in a motel next time I visit to avoid the pressure to get up when the GK do.  I plan to take them out to eat once or twice, babysit once or twice, maybe cook a meal or two, but leave when it is apparent there is not going to be any meal prepared that includes me and go get a bite to eat.  I don't like to feel the pressure, and seems that DIL is always angry, moody, and everybody jumps to attention when she wants something done.  I probably didn't say that accurately, just a feeling I have.  THANKS!  GLAD YOU ARE HERE TO HELP!  Smiles  :)

Welcome - SBAU - I wonder sometimes if there is such a thing as reasonable expectations. I think what works best it to have no expectations at all. Simple but not easy...at least not for me. Sending love...

Welcome Smilesback@u :)

If you haven't already done so, please read the Forum Agreement under the category Open Me First.  We ask all new members to do so not b/c there is anything wrong with your post.

I agree with Luise, I think no expectations is the best way to go -- on both sides.  Personally I find your DS/DIL expectations for your visits to be very unreasonable.  I would not be comfortable staying in their home.  Like you, I don't mind helping out but having an expectation of cleaning and cooking would be too much for me. 

Welcome Smiles.  I think expectations is what gets us all in trouble.  I think your solution of staying in a hotel, taking them to dinner and pitching in when you feel like it is a wonderful idea to try.  They may not like it, but I think you are being very reasonable. 

I wonder if some kids look are their mothers as unpaid domestic servants and just keep that image.  :(

That and I think they look at your visit as a "Yay, I can get a break now, Mom is coming."  Which is not all bad and I think most GM's are willing to pitch in and help while they are there, but the DD/DS/DIL or SIL forget that for many GP's, it's also their vacation.  I think it takes both sides thinking about each other to create a good balance. 

Ha!  This one is easy! 

My DIL does not welcome me in her home.  In fact, I am decidedly unwelcome there.  Whereas her parents come all the time, stay in her house, and take her on vacations with them.  My DS on the other hand, has to sneak around to call me or email me when she-who-must-be-obeyed is not present.

I live in eastern Canada, my son lives in Vancouver.  My plan, when the gc come, is as follows.  I will not make dinner for DIL, nor will I clean her house.  I will stay at a hotel and take the kids to the zoo.  I will dress in fairy costumes, or frog costumes, and be the fun grandparent at birthday parties.  I will be the doting grandparent who buys frivolous amusements for the kids, and takes them on fabulous vacations, but does not perform chores for the mommy.

Maybe you want to consider these options.  (Don't be afraid of the frog costume or the bunny ears and bunny footwear - 'cause I don't fear it, and I am a whole decade older than you.  I'm planning on being a whacky, fun-loving grandma!  This is all going to be on my terns, cause I am sick of the one-sided treatment I have been receiving.)

And when my GD is somewhere between 3 and 6 years old, I am going to send her a fairy princess costume, complete with pink ballet shoes:

(http://lilyannaforgirls.com/shop/bmz_cache/f/fa94c1f0a16426ca7c24eece147b03c2.image.200x200.jpg)

I will send my GS a ton of lego. 

I think I might be able to make this one:
(http://lilyannaforgirls.com/shop/images/LilyTree600.jpg)

Just a suggestion regarding your plan to take everyone out to dinner.  Don't go to a restaurant where your grandkids have to "behave".  Go to a McDonald's playland.  Or buy sandwiches and go to a park that has swings and a kiddie wading pool.  If you can manage it, hire a clown to splash in the wading pool and push the kids on the swings. 

Welcome Smilesback@u, glad you're here. I don't have any GC yet, but am saving up everyone's advice for when I do. The only times DH & I have been invited to DIL's/DS's home is to help them move and clean. So, the writing's on the wall as they say...

We can only be taken advantage of if we allow it. I don't know, it's a hard call if there's a chance you could lose all access to DS & GC.

And welcome to you as well, Amflautist! I think my destiny is to be "whacky, fun grandma" too, since DIL's FOO has already claimed top spot. We'll have more fun, for sure.

I love the idea of the wacky, frog-bunny gramdma!  ;D

Like the guy who "waved to the bus" every morning, outlandishly dressed. Love it!

Exactly!!  ;D ;D ;D

One of the things I had to learn as a MIL/GM is that the parents work to different schedules than I do.  When I was raising my children, we had dinner at the same time every night, a cooked breakfast, lunch on the weekends, etc ...

Today's families have two working parents, schedules that are constantly changing, children who don't want to eat now and so on.

It took me a long time to realize that I am not invited to dinner because they are not having dinner until much later that night, or they stopped for burgers on the way home, something of that sort.

We too stay in a hotel and visit for a few hours at a time, if they invite us to dinner, then we gladly go, but do not get our feelings hurt if they don't.

I was raised with a strict schedule by a stay-at-home mom & a dad with regular working hours, but was myself a working mom with busy kids/DH. We managed to make time for the GPs when they came to visit. My hope is that in this day and age of instant messages via any number of technical devices that my DS & DIL can coordinate with us even though they may have busy schedules. There are many ways to work it out if one is motivated; IMO it shouldn't always be the GPs (or always the same set of them) who have to give in.

If I rarely saw my DS & his family, and traveled at great expense and effort to visit, I think I'd be a little miffed if I were treated as a distant aquaintance and not a close relative. It would be hard not to be hurt. Much admiration to you, cd1029, for getting beyond that.

And who knows, when I become a GM I may not want to spend so much time with the GKs! They could turn out to be horrid little buggers!

Well my DS and family are about to move in with me .....so I'll let you know !

Quote from: Pen on July 02, 2011, 05:40:41 PM
I was raised with a strict schedule by a stay-at-home mom & a dad with regular working hours, but was myself a working mom with busy kids/DH. We managed to make time for the GPs when they came to visit. My hope is that in this day and age of instant messages via any number of technical devices that my DS & DIL can coordinate with us even though they may have busy schedules. There are many ways to work it out if one is motivated; IMO it shouldn't always be the GPs (or always the same set of them) who have to give in.

If I rarely saw my DS & his family, and traveled at great expense and effort to visit, I think I'd be a little miffed if I were treated as a distant aquaintance and not a close relative. It would be hard not to be hurt. Much admiration to you, cd1029, for getting beyond that.

And who knows, when I become a GM I may not want to spend so much time with the GKs! They could turn out to be horrid little buggers!

Yes, I agree with you on several counts...and you put into words some of the hurt I am going through in trying to establish a working relationship with son and DIL.  I love the GK so it is worth it to keep trying and your ideas are much appreciated. 

Quote from: Pooh on July 02, 2011, 11:12:44 AM
Welcome Smiles.  I think expectations is what gets us all in trouble.  I think your solution of staying in a hotel, taking them to dinner and pitching in when you feel like it is a wonderful idea to try.  They may not like it, but I think you are being very reasonable.

You hit it on the head Pooh.  And thanks for the support on the hotel idea, dinner, pitching in - up to my comfort level.  I think I get into a black & white thinking, either I will do it all, or I won't.  Thanks,

Quote from: Pen on July 02, 2011, 05:40:41 PM
I was raised with a strict schedule by a stay-at-home mom & a dad with regular working hours, but was myself a working mom with busy kids/DH. We managed to make time for the GPs when they came to visit. My hope is that in this day and age of instant messages via any number of technical devices that my DS & DIL can coordinate with us even though they may have busy schedules. There are many ways to work it out if one is motivated; IMO it shouldn't always be the GPs (or always the same set of them) who have to give in.

If I rarely saw my DS & his family, and traveled at great expense and effort to visit, I think I'd be a little miffed if I were treated as a distant aquaintance and not a close relative. It would be hard not to be hurt. Much admiration to you, cd1029, for getting beyond that.

And who knows, when I become a GM I may not want to spend so much time with the GKs! They could turn out to be horrid little buggers!

yeah, a distant acquaintance and not a close relative...that's exactly how I feel I am being treated -- and I want to try to correct that.  My belief is that my DIL wants me to do all this "work" when I visit in order to get her "nod of approval" that I am a close relative.  I say BAH HUMBUG!  I raised my son and deserve that respect as I have earned it!  I get a little testy sometimes. 

Quote from: pam1 on July 02, 2011, 09:35:23 AM
Welcome Smilesback@u :)

If you haven't already done so, please read the Forum Agreement under the category Open Me First.  We ask all new members to do so not b/c there is anything wrong with your post.

I agree with Luise, I think no expectations is the best way to go -- on both sides.  Personally I find your DS/DIL expectations for your visits to be very unreasonable.  I would not be comfortable staying in their home.  Like you, I don't mind helping out but having an expectation of cleaning and cooking would be too much for me.

I think expectations are hard not to express so that is something to work on - as I make sense of my new role. My relationship now with my son and DIL is topsy turvy.  I really believe I am learning to let go of my expectations, and boy! it is not easy.  Thanks luise and pam,

Quote from: amflautist on July 02, 2011, 12:02:34 PM
Ha!  This one is easy! 

My DIL does not welcome me in her home.  In fact, I am decidedly unwelcome there.  Whereas her parents come all the time, stay in her house, and take her on vacations with them.  My DS on the other hand, has to sneak around to call me or email me when she-who-must-be-obeyed is not present.

I live in eastern Canada, my son lives in Vancouver.  My plan, when the gc come, is as follows.  I will not make dinner for DIL, nor will I clean her house.  I will stay at a hotel and take the kids to the zoo.  I will dress in fairy costumes, or frog costumes, and be the fun grandparent at birthday parties.  I will be the doting grandparent who buys frivolous amusements for the kids, and takes them on fabulous vacations, but does not perform chores for the mommy.

Maybe you want to consider these options.  (Don't be afraid of the frog costume or the bunny ears and bunny footwear - 'cause I don't fear it, and I am a whole decade older than you.  I'm planning on being a whacky, fun-loving grandma!  This is all going to be on my terns, cause I am sick of the one-sided treatment I have been receiving.)

WOW!  I think you have a similar situation and put it really well too.  I guess I have the same challenges --nice to know I am not alone - THANKS!  My son used to only talk to me on speakerphone, or when he was at the park with the girls.  He says he loves his job, but home is stressful.  I know how busy working parents are too.  Amflautist - you are incredibly fun!  I LOVE YOUR ATTITUDE to be the FUN Grammy, and not Cinderella  ;D 

Quote from: Pen on July 02, 2011, 02:53:49 PM
Welcome Smilesback@u, glad you're here. I don't have any GC yet, but am saving up everyone's advice for when I do. The only times DH & I have been invited to DIL's/DS's home is to help them move and clean. So, the writing's on the wall as they say...

We can only be taken advantage of if we allow it. I don't know, it's a hard call if there's a chance you could lose all access to DS & GC.

And welcome to you as well, Amflautist! I think my destiny is to be "whacky, fun grandma" too, since DIL's FOO has already claimed top spot. We'll have more fun, for sure.

Yeah, sounds like you can have that feeling too that DIL will be closer to their families.  And I realize that if I don't go along with the program of working and babysitting for them when I visit, well then, there is this tension that I am contributing.  I am afraid that no one will want me around the GK if I don't do what they want.  I know there is a compromise we can strike if I wasn't feeling so stubborn.  So it might be worth it to me to just do what they want for the short time we are together ( :-[    Thanks for understanding Pen. 

Quote from: Pooh on July 02, 2011, 11:19:42 AM
That and I think they look at your visit as a "Yay, I can get a break now, Mom is coming."  Which is not all bad and I think most GM's are willing to pitch in and help while they are there, but the DD/DS/DIL or SIL forget that for many GP's, it's also their vacation.  I think it takes both sides thinking about each other to create a good balance.

Right, "give me a break" syndrome.  I work full time and visiting GK is a treat on my vacation - not the only thing I want to do.  I don't remember resenting getting up with the kids all that much, but I was tired.  I also didn't expect my parents to work/babysit when they visited.  I did resent my parents not hanging out, chill, but they also wanted to sightsee and visit friends.  I just don't feel that I am supposed to work to give them a break or make their lives easier.  I thought visiting meant we get happy together -- instead the message seems to be we get stressed together.  UGH!  I don't want to visit under that pressure.  I might have to be the Whacky GM - and that could be a lot of fun dressing up and stuff.     ;)

Quote from: cd1029 on July 02, 2011, 04:57:46 PM
One of the things I had to learn as a MIL/GM is that the parents work to different schedules than I do.  When I was raising my children, we had dinner at the same time every night, a cooked breakfast, lunch on the weekends, etc ...

Today's families have two working parents, schedules that are constantly changing, children who don't want to eat now and so on.

It took me a long time to realize that I am not invited to dinner because they are not having dinner until much later that night, or they stopped for burgers on the way home, something of that sort.

We too stay in a hotel and visit for a few hours at a time, if they invite us to dinner, then we gladly go, but do not get our feelings hurt if they don't.

That's another way to look at it, and less stressful too! A few hours at a time, and dinner on our own.  sounds do-able -  Thanks cd. 

I resent being the slave no matter who I'm visiting or sharing a vacation with! You know how there's always one or two people (usually women) who end up doing most of the cooking and cleaning at the family reunion? The entitled DILs, MILs, SILs, FILs, and most of the teens are relaxing and enjoying themselves while the drudgey DILs/MILs are working nonstop to make sure everyone has food, drink, clean linens, etc. I can't imagine being so self-involved that I'd just sit and let everyone else do everything for me. I guess if you show up in reality-wear, rather than freshly manicured and tailored to the nines, you'll be given the drudge work, LOL. Note to self: more stilettos and French mani/pedis, less jeans and Ts.

Exactly Pen!  I was raised to always help out when I'm a guest and really, anymore it's not even conscious, I help with whatever they let me do.  Set the table, clean the table...whatever, I do it.  I couldn't imagine just sitting there expecting to be served.  However, I wouldn't want anyone demanding my help lol.

I don't go into other women's kitchens and offer to help because I have always felt insecure about my skills in that department and don't want them exposed. What comes from that is judgment about my sitting in the living room...and it is much worse than it would have been about not slicing and dicing correctly. None-the-less, I can't go there.

Just another point of view. All of it is deeply rooted in my experience of my mother's slavery (my concept) and my early-on determination not to follow in her footsteps.

Quote from: Pen on July 03, 2011, 09:22:56 AM
I resent being the slave no matter who I'm visiting or sharing a vacation with! You know how there's always one or two people (usually women) who end up doing most of the cooking and cleaning at the family reunion? The entitled DILs, MILs, SILs, FILs, and most of the teens are relaxing and enjoying themselves while the drudgey DILs/MILs are working nonstop to make sure everyone has food, drink, clean linens, etc. I can't imagine being so self-involved that I'd just sit and let everyone else do everything for me. I guess if you show up in reality-wear, rather than freshly manicured and tailored to the nines, you'll be given the drudge work, LOL. Note to self: more stilettos and French mani/pedis, less jeans and Ts.

Haha Pen!  More dress ups - note to self, change image.   ;D

Quote from: pam1 on July 03, 2011, 09:46:54 AM
Exactly Pen!  I was raised to always help out when I'm a guest and really, anymore it's not even conscious, I help with whatever they let me do.  Set the table, clean the table...whatever, I do it.  I couldn't imagine just sitting there expecting to be served.  However, I wouldn't want anyone demanding my help lol.

Wellllll, how about ever felt like you are doing more than your share?  Ever want to get out of the house because it is work, work and more work; and, let's say you are, I don't know, going out for lunch with hubby and then be told by DIL that "You can take a little break." WOW - that was a shocker -- and then feel like, you really are acting like someone's slave, who doesn't appreciate you were freely giving.  I get testy and now sorta feel like it will be a cold day in hell before I want to help.  And then find yourself visiting and helping again, like you cannot help it -- so I am basically avoiding visiting until this is straightened out.  The fun is all gone for visiting.  So I am working on me, this is my problem, not standing up for myself, feeling taken advantage of, and trying to find liveable boundaries on what I will and won't do.  Your input is greatly appreciated.  What is normal anyways?  Then I will talk with my son about what they want, and what I am willing to do - basically setting limits.  :P 

If I did stilettos. I would have to arrive in a wheel chair because no way could I stand up!  ;D ;D

There is no "normal". There are only perceptions.

Quote from: luise.volta on July 03, 2011, 10:24:58 AM
I don't go into other women's kitchens and offer to help because I have always felt insecure about my skills in that department and don't want them exposed. What comes from that is judgment about my sitting in the living room...and it is much worse than it would have been about not slicing and dicing correctly. None-the-less, I can't go there.

Just another point of view. All of it is deeply rooted in my experience of my mother's slavery (my concept) and my early-on determination not to follow in her footsteps.

Oh luise, I also am a product of our generation, and I wanted to do as much as I could do - manage the house and work too.  Some of what I interpret is going on sounds alot like the Aesop's fable of the little boy who cried wolf - help, help, help me.  We did help too every new parents needs help -- we were doing household repairs, cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping, babysitting with open hearts every time we visited, and with no expectations.  Now, I can see they are good parents, mature and managing pretty doggone good of the 2 and 4 yo GKs.  And really how hard is it to be a stay-at-home Mom with GKs in full time daycare anyways? I was told by my son that they have decided they will not be visiting us unless they can leave the GKs for a week so they can get a much needed vacation. Read my lips - "No" ...so I replied that maybe when they are older, they can come for summer.  I don't know, am I being heartless?  I feel decrepit.   :-\     

Heartles, hardly! You are evidencing self-respect. If we don't have it, respect will never come our way. Sending love...

Quote from: Smilesback@u on July 03, 2011, 11:49:42 AM
I was told by my son that they have decided they will not be visiting us unless they can leave the GKs for a week so they can get a much needed vacation. Read my lips - "No" ...so I replied that maybe when they are older, they can come for summer.  I don't know, am I being heartless?  I feel decrepit.   :-\   

Leave the kids with GPs for a "much needed vacation" indeed!  How on earth did those of us without GPs for the kids ever make it through the wash?  DH and I took the kids on vacations with us.  I can't remember even 1 day without the responsibility for full care of the kids.  Vacations were usually a week or two at a cottage where the kids could run with the neighbor kids while DH and I sat on the porch, or the beach, and watched. 

As I listen to the conversation here, I am forming my plan. 
1.  No way will  I take care of gc for the purpose of relieving the parents so they can vacation.  If I spend a day, or week, or summer with gc, it will be because I want to do it and because I initiated it.
2.  I don't clean other folks houses.  Don't even clean my own if truth be told.
3.  When I visit gc, it will be with fab activities in mind.  I don't want gc to think of grammie as mommie's helper, and so these activities will be out of the home. 

Quote from: luise.volta on July 03, 2011, 12:15:41 PM
Heartles, hardly! You are evidencing self-respect. If we don't have it, respect will never come our way. Sending love...

Wow, thank you Luise,  a lot!  I am working on self-respect.  Amen!  I need to keep my head about me, not get angry when my buttons are pushed.  I figure if I have thought about it, and know what I will and won't do, I will not get my feelings hurt...just compromise and negotiate.  Thanks again for your loving thoughts here - sure helps!

Quote from: amflautist on July 03, 2011, 12:19:41 PM

Quote from: Smilesback@u on July 03, 2011, 11:49:42 AM
I was told by my son that they have decided they will not be visiting us unless they can leave the GKs for a week so they can get a much needed vacation. Read my lips - "No" ...so I replied that maybe when they are older, they can come for summer.  I don't know, am I being heartless?  I feel decrepit.   :-\   

Leave the kids with GPs for a "much needed vacation" indeed!  How on earth did those of us without GPs for the kids ever make it through the wash?  DH and I took the kids on vacations with us.  I can't remember even 1 day without the responsibility for full care of the kids.  Vacations were usually a week or two at a cottage where the kids could run with the neighbor kids while DH and I sat on the porch, or the beach, and watched. 

As I listen to the conversation here, I am forming my plan. 
1.  No way will  I take care of gc for the purpose of relieving the parents so they can vacation.  If I spend a day, or week, or summer with gc, it will be because I want to do it and because I initiated it.
2.  I don't clean other folks houses.  Don't even clean my own if truth be told.
3.  When I visit gc, it will be with fab activities in mind.  I don't want gc to think of grammie as mommie's helper, and so these activities will be out of the home.

You might be the lucky one and not have all this drama -- look what you are missing?   ;)

Hi Smiles,
It is a hard situation living so far away so that every visit involves someone sleeping somewhere other then their own home.  I live in Sweden and have two daughters in the states, one with a daughter and one with dogs lol  When I make the trip back to the states, it always feels like the thought process is Mom's coming I can get a break.  I don't see my gd very often so I don't refuse but its hard when you don't know their schedules or habits or what they are allowed or not allowed to do. 
I don't really demand that they give up a bedroom but I do require a tv no matter where I end up sleeping lol. 

Hi Sheen, that's interesting, a long away from home.  How do you manage to let go of not seeing them very often?  How do you give your daughters breaks?  I raised sons and taught them to do for themselves, and not to expect me to do it for them.  Is it different raising daughters? 

What you did reaising sons sounds pretty "different" to me. Wonderful!  :D

Quote from: luise.volta on July 02, 2011, 08:51:20 AM
I wonder sometimes if there is such a thing as reasonable expectations. I think what works best it to have no expectations at all. Simple but not easy...at least not for me. Sending love...

I am going to try to follow your advice "to have no expectations at all", but it probably won't be easy for me either.

Welcome - Is there a story that goes with that cute picture under your User Name?

I dream of having an Airstream camper some day.

They are great!  ;D ;D

Have you seen those new ones that a car pulls, cute little jobbies - can't think of their name off the bat now. 

I admire those of you that can say "no" .  I cant do it.....it is so hard for me to not help them out.  For instance, my son and dil and 3 grankkids came today for a barbecue (ages 5 months, 3 years and almost five years).   My dil and son know that I will hold the baby so that they can eat at peace.   When they drop in in the morning.....I start making breakfast for all.  I really dont mind doing this but sometimes I am tired.  Sometimes I have to cancel get-togethers with my friends because they asked me to baby-sit with no time notice. 

Some time ago I told my son and dil that I would asked them to let me know about their baby-sitting plans with some time notice because if they didnt.....I would sometimes say no because I would not cancelled other compromises.  So the other day my son calls me and after chit-chatting a while he says "Mom....how many hours  away is it to tomorrow at 7 pm".... I said " 28 hours...why? " He says...."Ïs 28 hours enought time notice to ask you to babysit my children?" 

So he is even teasing me about asking them to let me know in advance about me babysitting for them......lol....cant believe it.......But it is not otheir fault....it is mine......they know I cant say "no"and have measured my strength when gks are involved.

Love you all

Welcome o.b.sikhquus and if you haven't had a chance yet, please read the "Forum Agreement" under "Open Me First".  We ask all new members to read it and become familiar with the forum rules.

Nana, I think it's a very hard balance to say "no" and also be a GP!

Well, I have to weigh in here with the DIL perspective.

Let me tell you, if I'm 'letting' you work in my house, then I *AM treating you like close family.  I do NOT let 'acquaintances' do a lick of work in my house.  So maybe it's a different perception?

In my family, it *is* expected that the GP's get up with the kids.  If it isn't an absolute JOY for you to spend an extra couple of hours with your GK's, then maybe you should stay in a hotel.  Again, with different perceptions, they perceive that you can sleep in any other weekend, and they can't.  Also, maybe they think it's a treat for you.

Maybe it's a question of "your family, your responsibility".  We're hashed this one over before, but the perception is that, it makes extra work having company, and if it's *my* company, I don't mind doing the extra work, but if it's DH's P's, who, BTW, are unpleasant to me, I resent doing the extra work.  So maybe your DS is 'supposed' to do the extra work, but instead YOU are picking up the slack?

I have to admit that when my Mom visits, she works.  She cooks, she cleans (the kitchen, not the house), she'll even do laundry.  But she's retired and she usually visits longer.  She gets up with DD (6), and babysits her for a week at a time during March break and twice over the summer.  Mom takes DD with her to the cottage for a week at a time too.  We appreciate everything she does, and we LOVE when she visits, because she makes it WONDERFUL for us.

I always quote "If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it, change the way you think about it."  I think in this applies in your case.  Talk to your DS and see where they are coming from, ask him if things can change.  If not, you'll have to change how you think about it.  So that, sure, you're losing sleep, and doing 'work', but you're doing it in order to have a good visit AND to give them a break.  Maybe you should not consider it a "vacation", but a "visit".

Good luck.  I can see this going south if you're not careful.

Ok, I have to throw another DIL perspective out there, as I am also a DIL.  I had no expectations of what a GP should do when they came to visit, except that they would visit with the GKs and us.  I treated GPs just as I would any other guest.  If they pitched in, or got up with the kids, then I was grateful for their help. I guess I was lucky that I had friends and GPs that did help and pitch in because they wanted to and I reciprocated when I was at their houses. 

When my Mother used her off days (she worked full-time until she was 65) to come visit instead of going to the beach, I felt privileged, and she felt privileged that we welcomed her.  I wanted to make her time there enjoyable and relaxed because I did know that she was giving up staying in a hotel where she didn't have to do anything in favor of seeing the GK and us and pitching in when she didn't have to.   I felt privileged when she said, "Sit down and relax, I'll cook dinner."  I was grateful to have the break but in no way would I have ever told her if she didn't cook, clean, get up with the kids or babysit so I could go do something, that she wasn't welcome.  There was also no way she would have set there for days watching me do all the cooking, cleaning, etc. without helping out.  Even the MIL I didn't get along with was treated the same way and she also pitched in and helped.  Drove me bonkers while she was doing it, but she did.

Balance

I think a lot depends on how you get on together , also if it's your DD or DIL .
I would feel very awkward ferreting around in my DIL's kitchen .I certainly would entertain and look after my GD , so perhaps that's a way of helping out . As we live close I have never stayed over .
However as my DIL is moving in very soon , I would hope that she pitches in and helps around the house .As she doesn't cook
I suppose that's my job , but as I work full time , who knows she may surprise me and cook a meal !
She is very welcome to my kitchen and any other part of the house , ha we may end up best buddies .....!

Here's to best buddies! Lol!

Quote from: Nana on July 03, 2011, 11:39:54 PM
I admire those of you that can say "no" .  I cant do it.....it is so hard for me to not help them out.  For instance, my son and dil and 3 grankkids came today for a barbecue (ages 5 months, 3 years and almost five years).   My dil and son know that I will hold the baby so that they can eat at peace.   When they drop in in the morning.....I start making breakfast for all.  I really dont mind doing this but sometimes I am tired.  Sometimes I have to cancel get-togethers with my friends because they asked me to baby-sit with no time notice. 

Some time ago I told my son and dil that I would asked them to let me know about their baby-sitting plans with some time notice because if they didnt.....I would sometimes say no because I would not cancelled other compromises.  So the other day my son calls me and after chit-chatting a while he says "Mom....how many hours  away is it to tomorrow at 7 pm".... I said " 28 hours...why? " He says...."Ïs 28 hours enought time notice to ask you to babysit my children?" 

So he is even teasing me about asking them to let me know in advance about me babysitting for them......lol....cant believe it.......But it is not otheir fault....it is mine......they know I cant say "no"and have measured my strength when gks are involved.

Love you all

Well Nana, you have my name -- I am a "Nana" too :)  It seems that you can say "no" to babysitting when you have plans, but if you just don't want to babysit, that's ok too.  You are nice to make yourself available to babysit with a day's notice, I think.  Your son's teasing may be a bit confusing because in the past you might have cancelled plans in order to babysit for them.  I think if it is not an emergency, let them figure it out for themselves.   If you are consistent about the day's notice, it will be easier on everyone.             

Quote from: Scoop on July 04, 2011, 09:31:59 AM
Well, I have to weigh in here with the DIL perspective.

Let me tell you, if I'm 'letting' you work in my house, then I *AM treating you like close family.  I do NOT let 'acquaintances' do a lick of work in my house.  So maybe it's a different perception?

In my family, it *is* expected that the GP's get up with the kids.  If it isn't an absolute JOY for you to spend an extra couple of hours with your GK's, then maybe you should stay in a hotel.  Again, with different perceptions, they perceive that you can sleep in any other weekend, and they can't.  Also, maybe they think it's a treat for you.

Maybe it's a question of "your family, your responsibility".  We're hashed this one over before, but the perception is that, it makes extra work having company, and if it's *my* company, I don't mind doing the extra work, but if it's DH's P's, who, BTW, are unpleasant to me, I resent doing the extra work.  So maybe your DS is 'supposed' to do the extra work, but instead YOU are picking up the slack?

I have to admit that when my Mom visits, she works.  She cooks, she cleans (the kitchen, not the house), she'll even do laundry.  But she's retired and she usually visits longer.  She gets up with DD (6), and babysits her for a week at a time during March break and twice over the summer.  Mom takes DD with her to the cottage for a week at a time too.  We appreciate everything she does, and we LOVE when she visits, because she makes it WONDERFUL for us.

I always quote "If you don't like something, change it. If you can't change it, change the way you think about it."  I think in this applies in your case.  Talk to your DS and see where they are coming from, ask him if things can change.  If not, you'll have to change how you think about it.  So that, sure, you're losing sleep, and doing 'work', but you're doing it in order to have a good visit AND to give them a break.  Maybe you should not consider it a "vacation", but a "visit".

Good luck.  I can see this going south if you're not careful.

Scoop, this is truly the gist of where the conflict is for us -- and I want to thank you for pointing it out.  It gave my husband and I something to talk about and it seemed to help us understand our feelings better.  We both work and can take time off this summer to visit.  So far the plan is to fly across country and stay 10 days in a B&B right around the corner from them.  My son offered to put us up on the living room pull out, but we prefer our privacy and sleeping in.  He said the B&B is right around the corner from them, on the way to their favorite park.  Pretty ideal and seems to be working out.  Since they both work, the girls are 2 and 4 and in daycare, they will be on their usual bedtime and preschool routines.   My son can take some time off to visit with us, but my DIL just started a job, and she will be working.  Their idea is to alternate having one kid stay home to visit with us and then have weekends all together.  That's why we planned such a long visit - to get the weekends with us all together.  We offered to watch the GKs overnight if they want to plan something (which we offer every time we visit).  I am thinking that it might be fun cooking something up with the girls in the kitchen.  Nothing set in stone, though - I will probably do a couple of my favorite recipes.  I just hope my son and I have a good enough relationship that we work through any of these issues.  The most important thing is that we are considerate of others' feelings, and be willing to get along to have a wonderful visit, and love to get together.  Our chances seem pretty good, don't you think?     

Quote from: Pooh on July 04, 2011, 10:00:55 AM
Ok, I have to throw another DIL perspective out there, as I am also a DIL.  I had no expectations of what a GP should do when they came to visit, except that they would visit with the GKs and us.  I treated GPs just as I would any other guest.  If they pitched in, or got up with the kids, then I was grateful for their help. I guess I was lucky that I had friends and GPs that did help and pitch in because they wanted to and I reciprocated when I was at their houses. 

When my Mother used her off days (she worked full-time until she was 65) to come visit instead of going to the beach, I felt privileged, and she felt privileged that we welcomed her.  I wanted to make her time there enjoyable and relaxed because I did know that she was giving up staying in a hotel where she didn't have to do anything in favor of seeing the GK and us and pitching in when she didn't have to.   I felt privileged when she said, "Sit down and relax, I'll cook dinner."  I was grateful to have the break but in no way would I have ever told her if she didn't cook, clean, get up with the kids or babysit so I could go do something, that she wasn't welcome.  There was also no way she would have set there for days watching me do all the cooking, cleaning, etc. without helping out.  Even the MIL I didn't get along with was treated the same way and she also pitched in and helped.  Drove me bonkers while she was doing it, but she did.

Balance

I like how you treat your mother and MIL the same way; and, how fortunate for you that it is reciprocated.  We are like that too, I don't need the crack of a whip to get me to help.  I just don't go overboard, it is not my house after all.  Do as little or more as you like, it is your house, and I am just a guest in your home and respect your rules (or sleep elsewhere). 

Quote from: Pen on July 03, 2011, 09:22:56 AMI can't imagine being so self-involved that I'd just sit and let everyone else do everything for me.

And, see, I'm grateful for the self-involved, because then I can spend every event hanging out in the kitchen with the fun people, getting first crack at the food (all in the name of "tasting", of course) and avoiding more socialization than I really enjoy, while still getting "points" for participation, plus added "salt of the earth" points as well. :D  Win-win!!

Quote from: Smilesback@u on July 03, 2011, 11:07:04 AM

Quote from: pam1 on July 03, 2011, 09:46:54 AM
Exactly Pen!  I was raised to always help out when I'm a guest and really, anymore it's not even conscious, I help with whatever they let me do.  Set the table, clean the table...whatever, I do it.  I couldn't imagine just sitting there expecting to be served.  However, I wouldn't want anyone demanding my help lol.

Wellllll, how about ever felt like you are doing more than your share?  Ever want to get out of the house because it is work, work and more work; and, let's say you are, I don't know, going out for lunch with hubby and then be told by DIL that "You can take a little break." WOW - that was a shocker -- and then feel like, you really are acting like someone's slave, who doesn't appreciate you were freely giving.  I get testy and now sorta feel like it will be a cold day in hell before I want to help.  And then find yourself visiting and helping again, like you cannot help it -- so I am basically avoiding visiting until this is straightened out.  The fun is all gone for visiting.  So I am working on me, this is my problem, not standing up for myself, feeling taken advantage of, and trying to find liveable boundaries on what I will and won't do.  Your input is greatly appreciated.  What is normal anyways?  Then I will talk with my son about what they want, and what I am willing to do - basically setting limits.  :P

We've discussed this here a few times and my take on visiting others is to follow the law of the land.  If it is something I can't agree with for whatever reason I've found it is futile to change someone else. 

I thank you for your input, and just want to say I just want the Live and Let Live attitude to make it a nice visit. 

Quote from: elsieshaye on July 04, 2011, 06:57:30 PM

Quote from: Pen on July 03, 2011, 09:22:56 AMI can't imagine being so self-involved that I'd just sit and let everyone else do everything for me.

And, see, I'm grateful for the self-involved, because then I can spend every event hanging out in the kitchen with the fun people, getting first crack at the food (all in the name of "tasting", of course) and avoiding more socialization than I really enjoy, while still getting "points" for participation, plus added "salt of the earth" points as well. :D  Win-win!!

That's true, elsiehaye, good way to look at it. As long as there are indeed fun people in there with ya (and wine.)

Sorry, misspelled your name, should have been 'elsieshaye.'

Pen, given sufficient wine, -anyone- in there with me seems like a fun person. :) 

LOL Elsieshaye!