Hello... This is my first post, but I have been reading here for some time. I have a situation which is causing me great hurt and pain. My relationship with DIL has been on the decline for some time. She is distant and cold. When my son and her and the kids visit, she barely speaks and looks very unhappy while she is here. I have asked my son what the problem is, but he is not saying. He is vague and says.. "oh it's me not you" I didn't want to confront her and create a problem. I always thought I was very careful about staying out of their business and not offering uninvited advise... not visiting without being invited... etc.. But her coldness was very perplexing.
This week I was bored and surfing the net... playing around and typing in names and emails. Up pops a message board with my DILs name. It appears that going all the way back for years she has been writing horrible things about me in this support group. She has called me horrible names and made accusations that I have absolutley no recollection of. She has told these people outright lies. Her hatred and viotrol were scathing. I am reeling.
I have not done anything with this. I have not told my son. I have not confronted her. But I don't know if I can ever look at her again. Our relationship is not good now. If I bring this up I am afraid it will be completely over. My son will be stuck in the middle, which I don't want. What should I do? Continue on as it is with a knot in my stomach everytime I see her? I had no idea she harbored these feelings about me. NONE.. Apparently everything I've done or said for years was discussed. I'm just sick. How I wish I hadn't been snooping on the net, but what is done is done. Where do I go from here? If only she had come to me with her complaints and not let it go on so long. I had no idea I was such a problem.
Welcome Lilly,
If you have been reading for sometime, you will understand from the posts that we try to resolve our situations or figure out the best way to cope with family issues. It is a good place to help make positive choices for yourself by getting and giving advice from past experiences. The ladies here are awesome. From my experience, I would not say anything and leave it at that because you have a decent relationship with your DS it sounds like to me. Why open a can of worms?
Welcome Lillycache :)
If you haven't already done so, please read the topics in the category Open Me First. We ask all new members to do so not because there is anything wrong with your post.
I agree with Beth2011, it's probably not a good idea to bring it up. I'm not sure how you can talk about it without this being turned around on you. So sorry you had to find out this way what the actual problem was, it must be frustrating after all this time and you asking directly and not getting an answer. That says to me that either DIL or DS does not want to talk about it with you, even further reason not to bring it up with them.
Where to go from here? I'm sure you are very, very hurt and need some healing for yourself. So basically I think it is up to you, be gentle and honest with yourself. Oh and I wouldn't go back and read some more, my take is that it will only be painful for you.
Are you sure it was your DIL? Could it not have been a different woman with the same name and some life similarities? I can't see any reason for anyone to lie on a message board.
Lily - is it possible that what your DIL is writing is her reality? Because I'm sorry to say that your post could very easily have been written by my MIL. I'm sure that she doesn't realize why we don't have a good relationship. And I'm sure that I could give a huge list of things she's said and done, that she would deny, forget or claim as lies.
To me, you've been given a "cheat sheet" for dealing with her. If you can put your ego aside and read what she's written, it might give you a road map of the landmines in your relationship. This could make things better between you. But really, if that doesn't work, you can figure out how to push her buttons!
Lily, welcome.
I understand your devastation over this suddenly discovered bit of information. I found out a few months into my DS/DIL's marriage that she & her FOO hated us. She said there was no specific reason, we hadn't done anything, just that she thought we were losers and she detested us. She didn't tell me first hand; DS came to us & vented one day after he'd had to tell us we were uninvited to an event that included DIL & her FOO.
I felt like I'd been kicked in the gut. We'd done a lot for her and her FOO, and I didn't understand where this was coming from.
It made things very awkward when we did see each other. I wanted to bring it out in the open, but I'm glad I didn't. We acted like all was well, although since then I am not as open w/DIL as I was starting to be. We keep things on a very superficial level.
If you can possibly do so, please keep this to yourself. If you're not ready to handle the possible fall-out (losing DS), don't say a word.
Thank you all for your input. Not saying anything is the way I was leaning. I just needed to hear it from others I guess. It is going to be so difficult from now on. I will be absolutely afraid to open my mouth... and I'm sure THAT will be construed in a negative way. Let me give an example of what was in those posts... When they had their first baby, it was a boy. I was thrilled! I love that kiddo with all my heart. He is my first grandchild and holds a special place. However, when they told me they were expecting a 2nd child I said that I hoped it was a girl this time. I never had a girl... MY grandmother and I had a very special relationship that holds only the fondest of memories for me. When the ultrasound was done and it was confirmed she was a girl I was estatic! Just thrilled. I said that I was so happy about having a granddaughter. However my excitement apparently was taken in a different light. On her message board, it was turned into my not caring about my grandson! That I didn't give a hoot about him anymore, because a granddaughter was coming. How can you anticipate that happening? How can you even know what to say? Had I not said how happy I was, I'm sure that would have been taken to mean I didn't care about any of the kids. So things like that are what I said were lies.. I guess not really lies, but total twisting of meanings and intents. That is only one example of many. I was amazed at how such innocuous statements by me were taken totally out of context.
Also my caution about not being intrusive and not calling to ask to visit without an invite was also taken to mean that I didn't give a hoot. I never asked to go to Tball games, or ballet recitals.. I was never invited.. I didn't even know these events were taking place. I blame my DS for that, not DIl... But still, it apparently has upset her as I am painted as not caring. Somehow I suspect that had I called constantly to see what was going on and asking to come would not have been the right thing either.. Don't you?
As for knowing for certain that these posts were from her.. No doubt about that. Her picture and the kids pics were in her siggy. So no doubt about the legitimacy. Can you understand how difficult is will be for me now? I don't know what she is thinking or what the right thing to do or say will be. I don't think that anything I say will be the right thing. I know also that I have inadvertantly been the cause of battle royalles between her and my son. From some of her posts, this issue has been the root of all the fights and problems between them. What a heavy load I feel I have to carry. I don't want that. I never wanted that. I never suspected that. Sorry so long.. I guess I just needed to get this off my chest.
I think each person's perception is their reality, and it may not match up with those around them. It would make sense that if she was offended by something but you found it totally innocent or harmless, she would remember and you would not. Or that she would see it as a bigger deal. You totally may not have meant it as not caring about your grandson, but stating you hoped it was a girl, and were really excited about having a granddaughter, and hoping to have the same 'special' relationship you had with your GM could come across that way (especially if as big a deal wasn't made about grandson's gender when he was born). You've been given some pretty uncensored insight into how DIL thinks, and I'd agree that DS bears a lot the responsibility here too. I think that's it's possible to find a balance between not being intrusive and being involved. You don't have to swing totally in the other direction of calling constantly or showing up for every little thing.
Lilly, I am so sorry. What a painful and uncomfortable position to be in.
About the visits. I can understand your point about not wanting to ask for visits because you wanted to be unintrusive, and I can understand why your DIL thought that meant you didn't care. Neither of you was wrong, and it looks to me as though this is something that could be really easy to fix. Can you find a way to say to her, "I have avoided asking to visit because I was afraid of being intrusive, but now I think I made a mistake. I feel as though I missed out on spending time with the kids and you. Is it okay if I start coming by more often? I'd love to come to some of their events if you don't mind."
As for saying you hoped the second baby was a girl, etc., know that there is a longstanding rule that one never -- and this goes for everyone, not just GMs-- NEVER expresses a preference in regards to sex, nevernevernevernever. Whatever you're thinking in that regard you keep to yourself because what you say is very likely to hurt somebody. What if the baby had been a boy and he had found out at some point that GM had wanted him to be a girl? I can tell you from personal family experience that that would have hurt him. It's understandable that you want a special relationship with a GD like what you had with your GM, but if your older GC knows about that desire, he may very well feel left out and not as special as his sister. Also, your GD is her own person and there is no guarantee she will be someone with whom you can have the relationship you want anyway. There is nothing wrong with having that kind of desire, but no good can come of sharing it.
Time to hash out what was said and use this information you've unwittingly stumbled upon to try to make things better between you and your DIL. It must hurt a lot, but who knows, maybe someday you'll be glad you found this stuff. Wouldn't it be great if we could speak our piece to our family before serious damage has been done and didn't spill it on message boards instead?
It would be nice to be handed a manual regarding the appropriate thing to say or how to react to every given situation. It seems MIL cannot just relax and interact with DIL as she does her own family. I think that's where most of us go off course.
As for my expressing a preference for a girl the 2nd time around and my excitement at finding out the ultrasound results... My goodness.. DIL herself stated she wanted a girl and she would have one of each.. When it was confirmed she was over the moon and saying how she looked forward to now being able to buy frilly girlie clothes and ribbons. Should I have inferred from that that SHE now didn't feel her son was as special, or that she would now love him less than her daughte? Of course not... That never entered my mind. I was sharing in her excitement and voicing my own. I can't believe she would twist things the way she did.
But be that as it may... it's done and a myiad of other innocent gaffs of mine have been festering for years and years. I don't think there is much hope to turn back the clock and start over. I can't help but feel it is way to late for that.
Lily - my heart goes out to you. What in heavens name is going on with all of us mils and dils and ac? I know i am in the same boat you are - just have not found the posts from dil. Part of me would like to find them so I could do what Scoop says and employ the 'cheat sheet', the other part knows finding that info out there would shut me down even more.
Keeping the zipper closed on our mouths seems to be the consensus. Doesn't that doom us to 'eggshells' forever, as the elephant in the room only grows over time unless there is a miracle?
When the borderline-hate, borderline ridiculous comes to us from ac and il's or we ourselves engage in it as their parents, isn't it proof there is deep if misdirected caring and love? Wouldn't indifference be worse? If that is true, then isn't there something to work with if we are open and honest with ourselves and them. I, for one, wish for the difficult conversations (respectfully handled). Yet I read again and again how that leads to being close to cut off if not entirely cut off. Oh what to do - other than distract ourselves?
Lilly - your story is similar to mine. Whatever I did or said or thought was wrong and I was accused of things I did not do, did not say, and did not think. I believe that our exDIL (after 15 years she left our son and abandoned her children) suffers from mental health issues. I have no answers for you except to try to keep the ties to your son and grandchildren. I suspect you will never have a relationship with your DIL simply because it takes "two" for a relationship so let that "go". Don't discuss "her" with your son or anyone else (except your husband or a very close and trusted friend). Never mention her to your grandchildren unless in a very positive light (and even then, not often).
I, too, was blamed for all of the ills in our son's marriage. When our DIL stopped interacting/speaking to us, he had to "face the music" without our always being blamed. With no one to blame, the marriage was over in less than a year. So, when with your DIL, be cordial, happy and confident - after all, this is "all about her" and nothing you can do or say or think can repair it. However, don't lose your son and grandchildren over her - she's not worth it. This is where I might suggest you place your focus and love.
So sorry - been there and wish I knew then what I know now ....
Lilly, there do seem to be different sets of rules for us in many cases. Often they change with DS/DIL's moods & it's hard to keep current on what is OK & what is not.
My conclusion, based on years of interactions with other family, friends & co-workers, is that if someone doesn't want to like you they will be motivated to find fault in much of what you say or do and may twist those things around to suit their agenda. I've experienced this w/SM, ex-MIL, bosses, cubicle mates, jealous friends of close friends (just like junior high school drama, but unexpected & weird from adults.)
We may be tempted to bend ourselves into pretzel shapes to accomodate DIL's wishes, and still be left wondering what we can do to please her. We may realize we can't make any headway, and fade quietly away. We might get frustrated, angry & hurt, letting our emotions get the best of us which may lead to DS/DIL feeling they were right in their initial assessment of us as crazy old bats. We might keep trying, ever hopeful, only to have those hopes dashed over & over again.
As you've probably already figured out, MILs here have done all of the above & more depending on their own situations/personalities/pain thresholds. I tend to swing between hopeful, loving detachment and deep sorrow...w/a bit of unspoken resentment & anger thrown in 'cos I'm not very evolved, lol.
jdtm - my therapist told me what you have experienced if I understand you correctly. Namely, the projection of all this angst at us parents allows the younger couple to avoid the real issues in their marriage - a projection outward which can help them short term yet in time will come home to roost when we lovingly detach. I've got my hip boots on and am still having trouble not getting splashed!
My therapist also told me the only way to my son is through my dil, so am trying to foster the purely superficial relationship she prefers unless is it about her needs from me. The most recent is ' We're going to need a lot of help' in the brief conversation we had this week telling me they are preggers. Oh joy.
Penn, you crack me up - lol
Personally, I like to get all the garbage out in the open and if someone wants to cut me off because of it, so be it -- I don't think walking on eggshells indefinitely is worth it. But that's just me.
About the sex of babies, I wish everybody would just stop talking about it since it can do no good and most certainly can do harm, but it sounds as though in this case the DIL is just as "guilty" as the MIL.
Lillycache, if your DIL is criticizing you for things she's said herself, it sounds like you're stuck in the 'doesn't matter what you do it's wrong' place. Clearly she has no interest in repairing/forming a relationship with you, so just keeping it polite and civil for the sake of your DS/GKs might be the way to go. Pen has a point that once someone decides they don't like you, every little thing you do is wrong. You've given them the chance to open up about what the problems is, and it was turned down. Just keep your focus on your relationship with your DS/GKs.
Thank you all so much. I am feeling better. I also feel vindicated at some level. For years I have wondered what the heck the problem was. It was frustrating to try to interact with DIL only to be cut off at the knees with one word responses. I asked DS every chance I had to clue me in on what I had done, or what the problem was. NOW I KNOW, and DS didn't have to spill the beans. I also know that I am not guilty of any horrendous missteps. Because all the things I read were so off the wall.
Take for example, how supposedly I said vile and wretched things to DILs mother in front of everyone at some event... Not sure if it was a baby shower or Christening. I really would like to ask DILs mother what it was. I have no recollection, of there being any "words" between us and it was bothering me. However, based on her other complaints, I now know that it was probabley some totally innoculous comment or joke that was twisted or taken out of context. I certainly would remember saying vile and wretched insulting things to someone. I am not an impulsive crazy person with no self control. but it simply doesn't matter now. I have you guys to thank for helping me see that. Nothing I say will make them think better of me, or change minds or positions that have already hardened.
I know my son cares about me and wants his kids to grow up knowing his mother. He has brought the kids to see me without her coming along. Those were nice relaxed visits. No eggshells... no awkward silences, no nasty remarks between DIL and DS.. This is maybe for the best.
Do you think DIL could have some sort of depression? Was there a time you two got along? Did things go wrong when the babies came? Many young mothers are not getting enough sleep, are malnourished and rundown, and that really does affect temper and outlook.
Or maybe she is just unreasonable and mean like a junior high girl, or maybe having problems with her marriage that she is blaming on you, as suggested by others.
Don't approach her mother. If DIL hears about it, the sky could fall in. Search your conscience and if you decide you did something wrong, make it right and leave the rest. Don't look at anymore of her comments and just try to be yourself. I hope things get better.
Hello Lilly and welcome .
Sometimes we can't do right for doing wrong and there are no instructions to tell us what to do .
The reason we do what we do , is because we have too much to lose . This in itself makes us act
out of character .I wish I was one of those non caring people , acts as themselves with whoever from the
get go .so they know from the outset who you are and has to accept you , or not , whichever !
Whereas we try to fit in from the start and this is where we fall foul , trying to please all the time .
We are in a no win situation , darned if we do , or darned if we don't .
At least you now know where you stand , and where not to put your foot in , from now on .
If only ....lol
Quote from: Vasilisa on May 04, 2012, 08:37:10 AM
Do you think DIL could have some sort of depression? Was there a time you two got along? Did things go wrong when the babies came? Many young mothers are not getting enough sleep, are malnourished and rundown, and that really does affect temper and outlook.
Or maybe she is just unreasonable and mean like a junior high girl, or maybe having problems with her marriage that she is blaming on you, as suggested by others.
Don't approach her mother. If DIL hears about it, the sky could fall in. Search your conscience and if you decide you did something wrong, make it right and leave the rest. Don't look at anymore of her comments and just try to be yourself. I hope things get better.
Yes.... She mentioned PPD in several of her writings.. and in looking back, things got worse and worse between us after each baby. There are 3 now..another boy. Her animosity toward me seemed to jack up a notch or two after each baby. After this last baby the obvious distaste could be cut with a knife.
I believe she comes from a very close female dominated family who have little desire to include an outsider.. particularly another female.
No I'm not going to approach her mother. As I said, there is no truth to this story. I'm not sure if it's DIL making it up.. OR her mother. From the gist of her writing... her mother told her about this.. Do mothers of daughters intentionally try to cut out the other mother? Is there a competition there? I can't imagine ever wanting to alienate part of my child's spouses family. Could SHE have lied to dil? I'll never know.
QuoteDo mothers of daughters intentionally try to cut out the other mother?
No, I don't think so - not intentionally, any way. Since I always wait until the DIL and her mother have made their "holiday" plans before I discuss them with our family, it appears as if we "don't care" as much. Actually, I'm just trying to get along and not cause any rift or problems with the DIL or her family. This is because mothers of sons tend to have more to lose (as our sons won't fight for us the way a daughter does) and I feel we "give" more just to remain connected to their family. Now, in the case of our younger son's wife - there could not be a more loving or considerate DIL or a more accommodating family of origin. But, in my opinion, they are the exception to the rule and we feel so blessed.
I would really hope my DILs mother did not intentionally tell a fabrication in order to start trouble. It really upset me... because here is a woman that has so much! She has 5 daughters. 4 of them are having babies left and right. She has 8 grandkids.. She sees them all the time. And Me? I don't really have that much save sharing 3 of her 8 gks... What would she have to gain by causing problems between her daughter and I? I could never do that to another mother.
Just going to throw this out here, whether it is true or not, I have no idea. I read an article that explained that people are by far, more likely to embellish, exaggerate and even lie on the internet than they are in person. She may very well know that what she writes isn't true, but either way, her readers have no definitive proof. She may embellish just to gain validation for however she feels, when in her reality she very well knows she doesn't have reason to feel that way. It's not like she can very well lie to your son about events that have happened, assuming he was there.
While what you read might be hurtful and vitriolic, perhaps that is her imaginary outlet so to speak. It might make her time spent with you easier on you than opposed to her directly taking her frustration out on you (because, we've seen it here before, you could very well have done nothing to deserve her disdain). It isn't too far fetched for someone to just not like someone, then take to the internet and anonymously vent about them, meanwhile altering little bits of history, making the subject sound much worse than they actually are. Depending on what site she is on, she may very well be fed into as well, which keeps the beast going. Somedays, not all days, I am more annoyed at my family just because I read something on here or another site that reminded me of my own family issue (however minor) and it amplifies the issue. I have to be very careful about that, and that is why I don't read everyday.
I wouldn't want to be the victim of such a thing taking place, I'm very sorry about that. I just wanted to say that she may very well know what she writes are lies, and that it's not necessarily her own reality. So, in a way, you may be able to deal with her in reality and find peace with it and know that what she says happened just isn't true.
Personally, I would like people that go this avenue to just write a creative book to profit off of as opposed to making actual people in their lives the villain in their fantasy. ;)
QuoteDo mothers of daughters intentionally try to cut out the other mother?
Yes, it happened in my situation w/DIL's DM. There has been an agenda from day one.
Recently I found out she has cut off her DH's FOO too, so at least it's not just us!
Wow... thank you Silver Spring! That is one wrinkle in the cheese I hadn't considered.
Lilly, some DMs of DILs may actively try to cut out the other mother. I have a feeling though that your DIL is probably feeding her DM stories about you, which is painting you in a very bad light. It's most likely the same scenario of once someone doesn't like you, everything you do is wrong. I made a very big mistake when my MIL troubles started of blurting out to my mom that MIL was giving me grief. Even if we repair our relationship, my DM will always see her as the woman who's picking on her kid from here on out. Her mother may not be actively trying to cut you out, she just may think she's supporting her daughter.
I have learned that it's best not to share personal troubles with my mother. She will always take my side, which can feel good at the time but doesn't give me needed perspective and tends to feed any animosity I may be feeling. Plus then she'll always look askance at that person. I would guess most mothers are like that. We should probably take our complaining to a mature, trusted friend, preferably one who isn't likely to have a relationship with the object of our complaints.
Quote from: Vasilisa on May 04, 2012, 10:59:19 AM
I have learned that it's best not to share personal troubles with my mother. She will always take my side, which can feel good at the time but doesn't give me needed perspective and tends to feed any animosity I may be feeling. Plus then she'll always look askance at that person. I would guess most mothers are like that. We should probably take our complaining to a mature, trusted friend, preferably one who isn't likely to have a relationship with the object of our complaints.
I think this is very wise. I never thought there was a problem between me and her mother. We always got along the few times we were together. There have only been 6 or 7 times in all the years. Dinner when our kids got engaged. The wedding Shower... The rehersal dinner... the wedding. one baby shower and 2 christenings. and when the third child was born. It always seemed pretty civil to me. At all events I was mostly around my family members and didn't interact all that much with her family. So .. thinking back really hard... I am certain I never said anything untoward to anyone. It had to something taken completely out of context or intent, because somehow and for some reason, the well was poisoned. This is all very helpful.
This is a very sobering thought I think for all of us on the forum. I have often woke up in the middle of the night with panic attack, thinking of the dire consequences should my family inadvertently discover my covert activities on a forum. It is a huge risk to take. Had I not been going under for the third time when I found this site, wild horses could have never induced me to open myself up to such a risk. It could be devastating to be discovered in such a way, and could eliminate any changes of a future healing/restoration of the relationship with your child. I have to think this over, if I disappear from here ladies, please know that it was because of having to wrestle with these kinds of risk factors.
If I saw my FDIL had posted slander about me online, complete with identifying photos, I think I would have a hard time staying silent.
I'd send my son an email saying..... DS, last time I asked you if I had done something to offend DIL you said it wasn't me, it was you. Well, I came across this on the internet, (insert link to DIL's post) and clearly it is me. If there is something I can do to make things right or better, please let me know.
I'm not saying it's a good strategy. Just probably what I'd do.
:D
Ruth and Lily
I don't understand how anyone can find us in the net if we slightly disguise the details when we post.How could anyone find us through the email address? I apologize in advance as I know that is not the topic of this discussion, yet I don't know where else to ask it.
I have wondered how it would be perceived if I was found out on here, which is why I'm scant on details. I believe that I would be accused of slander and vitriol as well. It just wouldn't be understood. I think that's partly the risk we take when we vent on the internet, no matter how anonymous we think it is. I don't think you can get found out easily, but I guess it's always possible. As such, I don't think I could be upset if I disocered an offending party were posting about me, because I have done the very same thing. On the bright side, I guess we both would at least be in obvious agreement that there IS an issue.
Worrying, it just depends on how the person sets up their account for a forum. If you make a user name that clearly comes from your actual name it's quite easy to identify someone, or if that person uses their e-mail address in the forum. Same thing with putting personal photos as your profile pic. I've seen a few people here encouraged to change their usernames because they could be identifying. I accidentally posted my son's first name once, and requested it be removed (and it was). Some people just don't think twice about putting such identifying info out there. Unless you put your e-mail address in a post here, it wouldn't come up while searching.
I probably would have registered on the forum, under my real name and posted under something of hers, "You have excellent writing skills."
I can take critisizm, I can take someone else's opinions...I can't take outright lies.
Ok, that's what I would do, but I'm all about "not" walking on eggshells. Did it for too long, with too many people and don't want to spend the next 50 years doing it. I'm a take me or leave me kind of gal. So don't listen to me!
And welcome Lilly!
This may very well not apply, but I'm going to throw it out there in case anyone would benefit from it.
For a long time I was furious with my MIL over stupid stuff. A lot of my anger focused on things she bought -- I hated the clothes she bought for my daughter, I hated the fact that my tiny apartment was overflowing with the many bags of things she brought, I hated the ugly plastic toys that were against my excrutiatingly sensitive aesthetic and health standards. I hated -- oh, all sorts of things like that, even personal things that she couldn't entirely help, like the voice she used when talking to my baby (and I'm not even going to describe it here since that would just indulge my distaste, I'll only say that it grated on my ears excessively). I couldn't stand her and I felt kind of bad about it and I complained about these things to various people. Finally, after several years of anger and several months of actual physical distance, I realized that I didn't really care about the material things or her baby talk or any of the superficial matters. I felt trapped in the middle of an out-of-control, unhealthy, classic alcoholic family. I didn't know what to do about it. I felt as though I had lost all control of my boundaries, my privacy, and my family life and did not know what to do about it. So I had focused on external things that annoyed me but really didn't matter. It was easier to say, "God, my MIL brought me another bag of fussy little baby clothes, how I hate her taste" than it was to say, "It hurts me so much that she itreats me like furniture and that she keeps interfering in my relationships with other family members." I could get rid of the clothes and toys and have fun mocking MIL's pedestrian taste; there was nothing I could do about the backstabbing and other toxic behaviors, at least nothing I knew how to do. I feel really dumb and childish now when I think about the sort of things I complained about.
I wonder if DIL is focusing on superficial half-truths because she can't face something in the family dynamic that really bothers her.
Pooh - love it and laughed. I do want to listen to you though because I don't know if can even walk on the eggshells, what is there for me, it just feels so fake and I come away feeling 'yuck' everytime. I like more directness, clearing the air approach to difficulties.
Thanks for clarification New Mama - whew
Vasilisa Excellent thank you. I think you may have just helped me a lot - where do I send the fee? lol
I think many get a false sense of security while posting in message boards. After all... these people "are my friends". No one can know this. This is NOT your living room. It's the internet. Google cache is NOT your friend and what's posted will be out on the webs forever. So it's imperative to follow basic common sense. Be sure to tweek your details just enough to make identification more difficult. DO NOT use your email address.... or ANY part of it as a user name. Do not give real names of yourself, your DH or your kids. Do not post pictures of yourself or your kids. And as my DIL did, which made me cringe, is post a picture of her HOUSE! It was so irresponsible. It puts her family in danger. She cannot know for sure who is reading and what their motives are. I think we tend to be trusting. Especially after posting with people for so long. We THINK we know them. Nothing can be futher from the truth. Everyone has the responsibilty to protect themselves and their families.
Good post, Lilly. It's true, everything is out there forever and can be used against us.
Re: speaking up - I too hate walking on eggshells. I was always a direct, speak my mind gal; my friends can't believe I'm not letting my thoughts be known to DS/DIL. The only reason I don't speak up now is because I'm afraid of losing my relationship w/DS. How does one get over that fear?
As far as sharing here goes, I think there's a difference between public slander, lies and character assassination and the sharing most people do here. I see this as a group of women who would give their right arm to have better relations with their families. The things we share here are not to try to tear anyone down, but to build up. Build up esteem, build bridges, build understanding, build a support system. The intent of this group is not malicious.
Ruth, if someone read all your posts here, unless they are deranged, they would see the pain you're suffering, how much you want a loving relationship with your DS and the goodness of your heart in trying to help others. If anyone I know saw my posts and recognized me in my description, they would see my heart in the matter that brought me here. I don't think we have anything to be ashamed of. I am not ashamed of anything I've written here and I hope nobody else is either.
We have all been so traumatized by our families that we run and hide like scared field mice whenever we hear a noise. We need a safe place to gather and discuss our problems too. Our families certainly don't want to hear it. Ruth, if you need to, create a new, more anonymous screen persona. But don't leave. We've been scared to say boo to our sons, daughters, in-laws, and other family members. I'm scared to run into my own son in my own home town, for cryin' out loud. I refuse to be scared here. If my family wants to track me down here, let them. As if they cared enough to want to know how I feel. Ha!! I almost wish they would. Maybe it would be an eye opener for them.
I'm sick of being afraid to speak for fear of being shut down, shut up, shut out and shut off. I need this place to be myself and I need to hear you all. We're here worrying about something here being used against us when everything we do in real life is already being used against us. What's there to lose really.
Quote from: Pen on May 04, 2012, 03:17:19 PM
Good post, Lilly. It's true, everything is out there forever and can be used against us.
Re: speaking up - I too hate walking on eggshells. I was always a direct, speak my mind gal; my friends can't believe I'm not letting my thoughts be known to DS/DIL. The only reason I don't speak up now is because I'm afraid of losing my relationship w/DS. How does one get over that fear?
I don't know that we ever can.. There is no stronger love and bond than that of a mother to her child. I don't care if they are 4 or 40. They are still our flesh and blood. They have been the focus of our love before they were even born. I understand.. I would die if I knew my son didn't want to see me or talk to me. Not that he is particularly conscientious about this. Sometimes I don't hear from him for a month. That hurts me... but I realize he is busy with his life and his family. I want him to put his family first. I just wish he would care enough to check in on me to see if all is well with me.... more often.. I take what I can get. having a son is not like having a daughter.
Quote from: constantmargaret on May 04, 2012, 03:30:30 PM
As far as sharing here goes, I think there's a difference between public slander, lies and character assassination and the sharing most people do here. I see this as a group of women who would give their right arm to have better relations with their families. The things we share here are not to try to tear anyone down, but to build up. Build up esteem, build bridges, build understanding, build a support system. The intent of this group is not malicious.
Ruth, if someone read all your posts here, unless they are deranged, they would see the pain you're suffering, how much you want a loving relationship with your DS and the goodness of your heart in trying to help others. If anyone I know saw my posts and recognized me in my description, they would see my heart in the matter that brought me here. I don't think we have anything to be ashamed of. I am not ashamed of anything I've written here and I hope nobody else is either.
We have all been so traumatized by our families that we run and hide like scared field mice whenever we hear a noise. We need a safe place to gather and discuss our problems too. Our families certainly don't want to hear it. Ruth, if you need to, create a new, more anonymous screen persona. But don't leave. We've been scared to say boo to our sons, daughters, in-laws, and other family members. I'm scared to run into my own son in my own home town, for cryin' out loud. I refuse to be scared here. If my family wants to track me down here, let them. As if they cared enough to want to know how I feel. Ha!! I almost wish they would. Maybe it would be an eye opener for them.
I'm sick of being afraid to speak for fear of being shut down, shut up, shut out and shut off. I need this place to be myself and I need to hear you all. We're here worrying about something here being used against us when everything we do in real life is already being used against us. What's there to lose really.
Margaret, your letters have all been very meaningful and special to me, but this one makes so many good points I don't know where to begin. Your line 'running like scared field mice' hit me like a big bucket of water. I don't know why it felt so moving for me, but it must have described my insides to a T. Yes, I have lived right on the edge of fear for as long as I can remember. I am so very very afraid of my DS, and even often of my DD, and it isn't a physical fear, its just a fear of the inside of me, the most tender part that defines who I am, feels so very vulnerable and like a glass vase that could be shattered into a million pieces. Its a deep gripping fear that lives in the pit of the stomach. I'm still working on this, I don't know where to go with it, but I know its a big long term problem for me. Every time I post, I'm afraid. I'm more afraid not to post, however, because to not reach out is just a slow death for me. I think this fear drives many of us here who have been estranged from our children, we live with it so long that it has become tolerable, but it takes all the sweetness out of our lives. I have a lot to think about with this letter.
I wonder, Lillycache, what plan of action you're leaning toward now?
I think my take on this is that she was distant to begin with and now you know that she is distant and a creative writer.
I think maybe that I wouldn't say anything but just continue being cordial and maybe more distant yourself. Maybe 'cordial' isn't the word - maybe just 'polite'. I wouldn't say anything because it would take a lot of your energy and attention that could be spent on other things that are good for your life. I don't think you're going to change her since she's not looking to change.
I would venture to guess that your son knows about her various creative abilities - if she's writing fiction about you, she's probably doing it about others, too, imho.
Ruth, I understand the fear of being discovered here...I used to toss & turn some nights worried that I'd given out too much telling info after agonizing over how to explain myself while leaving out key ideas in a post. I also feared saying anything about our issues to friends/relatives who might inadvertantly mention something to DS/DIL.
Now I realize my DS/DIL don't have the time or motivation to find me on the internet - I mean, these are people who are pretty self-involved. I highly doubt they would deign to waste their precious time googling me; honestly, they just don't think about me that much. Still, I try to be careful and I don't give out specifics that could be used as clues. And if someone passes the word along that I haven't been happy about my treatment from DS/DIL, so be it. I don't think it will be a surprise to either of them.
I find a lot of the women are here because they are afraid to speak out about their treatment from their families . I wasn't getting to see my family anyway , so had.nothing to lose by speaking out. Plus I felt as if.my heart had been ripped out and couldn't live any longer feeling that way . We now have a mutual respect for each other , and yes I do mention things I wouldn' t have before but with respect , which makes the difference I think. To be quite honest I had to change and adapt when my GD was born . I had to wait to be accepted as a gp , it wasn't the big group hug I thought it would be . To my DS , yes I was his mom , to my dil I was just another women muscling in on her family . Took a while but after accepting my place. , I am now more acceptable if that makes sense .
It is not short term exposure I really have worried about, but more that if I should die unexpectedly, I wouldn't be able to erase all the things I exposed and I also wouldn't be able to justify the risks I took should one of the DC just inadvertently run across it on my email or something. Both my d/c can be very touchy and especially DS, who once years ago found out I had given his email address to another mother just as a gesture of kindness, to send him a word of encouragement when he was overseas and having a hard time. He nearly cut me off entirely for that and was very very harsh to me, and I was so dreadfully afraid and ashamed of what he may have written back to that nice lady. This is the kind of fear I've lived with. I just don't want to leave this live with any live grenades lying behind me.
I hope this hasn't hijacked your thread, dear one, but I think it is all still relevant, regarding exposure and consequences. I tend to lean toward believing you have been given a great gift, in discovering this, I would keep quiet as it could be of benefit to you at some time in the future, there are times we may have to fight fire with fire, and I think DIL was not only naive, but ironically naive. I wouldn't take it all so personally, as seeing this other side of her helps you understand her personality, that she is operating from a very emotional basis and is probably very prone to embellish, she is probably immature. This could change in time and evolve into a good relationship with you. You can now see where her tender spots are and maybe just go a little extra mile now and then there. I can handle things like this much better than I used to. I love getting information about myself from others' perspectives as it helps me see myself more honestly and have an opportunity to grow and change that I may not have had otherwise.
Doe I am so happy for the positive changes for you. I can see it in the way you write.
Lancaster L, I can also see that you've come a long way from your earlier posts. I really think almost all of us have come a long way, its been a hard road but we had the courage to get out of our foxholes and go out to the front line, that is the only place we can engage the enemy and we are really victorious (sorry to sound cheesy) but it isn't fear that makes a person a coward, but being debilitated by fear.
Thanks for noticing, Ruth!
I decided to stop the charade with my son - told him that I was weaning myself off the Internet and to email his dad or call us if he needed to get in touch. I haven't missed the hope/disappointment cycle that I had every time I signed online.
jdtm, this is exactly what we believe is starting to happen with our DS and DIL. We can no longer be blamed for their problems. DIL again has tried to stir up drama with our family but we have not responded in kind. Esp. since GC is starting to crawl and get around more. He will need more attention from both of his DP's minus a set of GP's us. My DD said he will find out everything with them is not all rainbows and roses. Lilly, it sounds like your DIL is trying to create drama. My DIL thrives on drama and the less we give her the more she dislikes us. We are not being sucked into being scapegoats again. DS will have to face the music on his own. Things may change later but you know I am able to go forward with my head held high and get on with living. It has taken a couple of years to get to this point because you ask yourself why? what did I do? what can I do to fix it? And there is no answer. The only one that has the answers is DIL and DS. Be strong for yourself and FOO.
Great post Beth!
Thanks Pooh :)