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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: Lajone on July 20, 2011, 03:51:10 PM

Title: Not lurking anymore
Post by: Lajone on July 20, 2011, 03:51:10 PM
Hi Mil's,

I am sorry but I am new at this and the first post I put up here was actually a poll and I didn't mean to do that. I basically just wanted advise from you wise women because it seems impossible to get it elsewhere. I have "lurked" on DIL sites as well for a year now but they don't really offer any advise, just MIL bashing which isn't what I need right now. I thought about trying the MIL sites to gain a new perspective on things. I wish I could just come right out and ask my FMIL "why don't you like me?" "What did I do to make you hate me so much?" but I have a feeling I won't get anywhere with her on that. I just don't know how to make things right. The angry, hurt part of me is like "fine, if you don't want anything to do with me, that is your loss...you will be the one sitting alone at holidays, not me!" But everytime I even think these words in my head I become ashamed of myself for feeling that way about someone I loves mother. I just don't know how to make her see that I am not a bad person and that I love her son very much. I even told my DF that his mother could be in the delivery room when our first is born. I figured since she has all boys she would want this opportunity...well she wants it from my FSIL, but not from me :( She doesn't want anything to do with me or any future children I may have. Is there any advise from MIL's out there that you can give me to try and make things work?
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: Pooh on July 20, 2011, 04:26:53 PM
Welcome back Lajone.  One thing I do know.  You can't make anyone like you that is dead-set against it, no matter what you do.  You can continue to be polite, civil and hope they change their mind.  Was there something in particular (that you are aware of) that happened between you two to cause her to be this way?  A fight, argument...anything?
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: Lajone on July 20, 2011, 04:28:34 PM
I'm sure :) perception is a huge part of it and people's sensitivities obviously...one that comes to mind is when she was staying the night at our home (before she said she felt uncomfortable) and asked me for a shirt of DF to wear to bed...I gave her one and she put it on with no pants/shorts just panties. I asked her if she wanted pants/shorts and she angrily replied "you just don't understand what it's like to be so hot going through menopause!" and then walked around in her panties...I told her that it made me feel uncomfortable to see her in her underwear and she got mad at me and told DF later that night that she didn't feel comfortable in our home...is that normal? Have you ever walked around you adult son's home in your panties? I thought it was weird and I said so and she was very upset with me about that...she also feels I am disrespectful because I am no longer a practicing catholic which she is. And you have to know how big of a hurdle religious differences can be. Her son used to go to church with her because he said he "had to" and now that we are together we don't go and he prefers that...I think she is mad at me for that too but again, this is all speculation as she will not talk to me or address any issues she may have and when I try to talk to her she ignores me...like literally doesn't acknowledge my presence. I told DF that this hurt my feelings and he stood up for me and told FMIL she had to be nice to me...I don't think she liked that either. I tried to tell her myself but it was like talking to a brick wall...she didn't even blink!
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: Lajone on July 20, 2011, 04:33:06 PM
P.S. I know I can't make her like me...but I hate to give up on things and I really don't want to give up on her. There is not one person in the world that I would allow to treat me the way she has and for some reason I roll over and let her hurt me and I keep my mouth shut...why am I giving her special treatment? If no one else in my life could get away with that, why her?
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: Purple Room on July 21, 2011, 05:27:32 AM
Just a thought - not an excuse but menopause can make women a little grouchy/crazy. Think about PMT lasting a whole lot longer. Maybe just continue to be polite for now?? Time and patience might be all it needs.
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: Silver Spring on July 21, 2011, 05:34:35 AM
I believe that she does get some sort of special treatment because you truly love her son.  :) That is probably what makes having a MIL so hard at times. You have to be nice when you don't want to be. She doesn't have to love you like your parents do if you tell her what you really think. Your boundaries with your parents have been in place (like, walking around in your skivvies is not acceptable), you have boundaries to work out with her, except you have to walk on eggshells.

Stay as determined as you are: don't give up. I think it will get better.
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: Pooh on July 21, 2011, 06:21:44 AM
I agree with Silver Spring.  You put up with it because you love your DH and you were probably raised it was the right thing to do.  Nothing at all wrong with that and you should be given credit for trying so hard.

I get the whole menopause thing.  It can make you do crazy things.  I'm not excusing her walking around that way, as I would have found that unacceptable as well out of any houseguest or myself.  She could have waited until she went to bed and undressed.  The religious thing?  I'm not even going there as we all know that it can cause major problems in a family.  You can't help that one.  You and DH have to be free to make your own choices when it comes to religion and she needs to respect that.  She probably isn't going to, but she needs to.  We find many times that different religious and political beliefs cause problems in families. 

Bless your heart for wanting to keep trying.  You're a good DIL.  I think the polite, civil approach is going to be the only thing you can continue to do and hope she decides to change her mind about you.
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: RedRose on July 21, 2011, 06:44:55 AM
I also agree...You just want to get along with your Mil, after all, she is your husband's mother.
I wouldn't even talk to her about religion, do what you feel comfortable with...why does she even have to know what you and your husband are doing. If she asks tell you go to church...whatever...I'm a firm believer in keeping the peace.

Menopause does make us act differently sometimes.

When you have children, I bet her attitude toward you will change because she will want to be included in that's child's life.
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: Silver Spring on July 21, 2011, 09:03:54 AM
Looking back, my MIL and my DH changed upon the birth of my first child, and hence did my relationship with both of them.

MIL went from being overbearing about DH to being overbearing about children, unfortunately. However, DH spoke up. What would normally have only been my form of behavior (before, how I cooked or something, but in this case, parenting), became DH's form of behavior as well. I don't think people can say this often, and I hope no one thinks I'm trying to encourage procreation for the sake of an issue like this,but a baby made things easier. I no longer had time to fret over what she thought of me because I couldn't control it and suddenly had no time to care if I did. MIL likely knew that I was a force to be reckoned with at that  point, parent to parent. DH and I were on the same  page about parenting and that's a tough topic. Since we did agree, she not only took issue with me, but him as well. We operated as a team before, but  it was readily apparent upon having children. Problems fell to the background.
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: Sassy on July 21, 2011, 09:05:55 AM
Lajone welcome.  I am sorry for the pain of rejection you are feeling. 

Pam and others here have spoken about etiquette and I took notes and learned a lot.  Etiquette protocol provides lots of good guidance for sticky situations.

I think showing panties in mixed company is rude and weird.  I think addressing anyone in panties in your home, must be handled very delicately to spare embarrassment because they may feel extra vulnerable.  As weird as it is to put on a panty parade, telling them how weird might have really hurt.  I don't know how one might handle such a social pickle, to be honest.  Would I would keep offering shorts or a robe or a sarong, gently but repeatedly, until they accepted it.  Would I ignore it and remember to always suggest a hotel for such a guest, in the future.  Lajone, was it after the panty party when it really started to go downhill with her? 

Telling someone that they have to be nice, is tough for anyone to pull off.  She doesn't have to be "nice" to you.  She should be polite.  Is she rude to you, or just not as warm and talkative as you wish she'd be?  As much as it's up to MIL how much she "likes" you, she still should be polite when you spend time together with her son.  If she wants son to have a nice visit, so he comes back for more, being outright rude to his wife isn't how to show him a good time.   It is up to you how much time you will spend with someone who is outright rude to you.

Maybe a practical approach would be to give up trying to "address the issues" with her, for a while.  It appears she isn't ready to discuss issues, and could be intimidated by being approached about them.  Drop the big picture theoreticals (ideas about her not wanting anything to do with children you may one day have).  Instead focus on the here and now, the reality, and simply being polite and mannerly to each other when you are together.  When you are both in the same place, make your goal to have very basic exchange of plesantries, so you are not hurt by her.

This is my suggestion.  Don't seek love and approval from her.  Do seek to have short pleasant visits.  Do seek to follow guidelines of etiquette when interacting with her.  Show respect consistently, for both her and yourself.  Let trust build from there.

Quoteshe will not talk to me or address any issues she may have and when I try to talk to her she ignores me...like literally doesn't acknowledge my presence. I told DF that this hurt my feelings and he stood up for me and told FMIL she had to be nice to me...I don't think she liked that either. I tried to tell her myself but it was like talking to a brick wall...she didn't even blink![/size]

I am not sure I understand what you mean by what she is doing, the brick wall?  Is it a response when she doesn't know what else to say?  Or thinks saying nothing is best (when you don't have anything nice to say...).  Or is the brick wall, how she acts all the time towards you.  Does she invite you to her home and then shun you? Does she invite your fiance but not invite you?  If I arrive somewhere I'm invited, address the hostess and get no response as if I am invisible? Literally a brick wall?  I'd wait another 5-10 minutes then politely excuse myself and leave. I will not stay where I am clearly not welcomed.   

Does she come in your house and say hello to you? Does she thank you when you bring her coffee? Or does she come in your house, ignore your greeting, and say nothing like you're not there.  A guest who acted like that would not be invited back into my home until they told me they will not treat me like that in my own home again.
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: Sassy on July 21, 2011, 09:17:19 AM
Pam1 what was the etiquette book or author you've recommended?
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: justus on July 21, 2011, 01:56:16 PM
I like Sassy's advice. It is much of what I was going to say, but better.

I don't think you should give up on her, but do give up on having the kind of relationship you want with her. She has shown you who she is, believe her and behave accordingly. Don't invite her over if she is just going to ignore you or walk around in her panties. If you have to be around her, and she ignores you, stop trying to talk to her. You cannot change her, you can change how you react to her.

It may be time for you to simply take a step back and let the situation alone for a while. Don't stop your DH from seeing her, but avoid her and let the chips fall.

I don't know if you ever noticed, but some people treat the people who want their approval the most like dirt, but treat the people who barely notice them like royalty. That may be the sort of interaction that is going on here. So stop chasing her and let her come to you when she is ready, if she ever is.

BTW, my adult DD is living with us while she looks for a job and I don't even walk around in my pajamas. When the nest is empty, clothing is optional, but out of deference to DD's sensibilities, both DH and I are fully clothed when she is there.
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: Lajone on July 21, 2011, 04:22:42 PM
Thank you all so much for the much needed advice :) The whole "brick wall" thing she does to anybody who is saying something to her that she doesn't want to hear including her own children. I have seen it on many occasions and it is unreal. One time we were visiting for a funeral and staying with her. She and her other son who lives with her were fighting in front of everybody and he started telling her how she was making him feel and she just shut down...it was like she went inside her head and flipped the switch to off. No emotion, no blinking, no nothing...she just sat there and stared right in front of her while he was trying to talk to her. How do you address an issue with someone who won't acknowledge you at all.

On the other hand, I don't want to make her out to be all bad. She has made an effort on her part and I know she has. When we got engaged she called to welcome me into her family and even though you can tell she wanted to puke doing it...she still did it. It seems like she and I are HIGHLY sensitive to one another. Any little thing that is said or done on either end is taken in offense on both of our sides.

The "panty" issue did put an end to her "trying" to be nice to me. After that it has been stone cold silent. But the thing is, she didn't like me when her son and I were just friends at 14 years old. Why would you not like a 14 year old? By the way, I wasn't one of those teen girls that was sexual in anyway. Her son and I were JUST friends and thats it. So what I really want to know, and what I really really want to ask her is what did I do then that made her not like me even when I wasn't dating or engaged to DS.

So I have a question for all of you...if you are a MIL and you don't like your DIL and she called you up (I believe speaking in person is best because often tones can be misinterpreted through email or text as I have come to find out) and asked you "MIL, I really honestly want to know what I did to make you hate me so that we can try to fix it or I can apologize for what I did" would you as the MIL answer her in an honest way. Would you tell your DIL all the things you think and how you feel about her? Would you welcome her wanting to know how you really feel? I have a feeling that if I called my MIL right now and asked her she wouldn't be honest with me. Is it too much to ask for a little honesty, even if you think that by being honest you might hurt someone? If my MIL came to me and asked me what my problem was I would gladly tell her how I feel and I would try to do it in a delicate but honest way. I also wouldn't expect her to get angry as I am the one who asked in the first place. Don't ask something when you aren't prepared to hear the answer right? Well I am prepared to hear what she has to say to me, only she won't say it. How is that the mature way to handle an issue with one's family?

I have been thinking about calling her and inviting her up for a visit so that I can work on making her feel comfortable in my home, except everytime I pick up the phone I already feel rejection on the other end. I know this isn't fair to her but I'm just so scared of being hurt again. I wish she really knew how I felt...the good and the bad. Then maybe she would realize that I want her in my life. She tells my FSIL that she wishes my DF ex was still around. God that hurts :( I wish she knew how much...

I agree though...I shouldn't focus so much on the potential problems we might have in the future and focus on the one's we are having right now :)
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: Lajone on July 21, 2011, 04:59:33 PM
And on another note...why is it that we DIL's feel like nothing we ever do is good enough when our Mil's do things like clean our homes, rearrange our pantries, cook for us, etc. Whenever my FMIL used to come over the first thing she did was start cleaning my home and it infuriated me because it made me feel like I wasn't doing a good enough job. This is what I mean when I say we are highly sensitive to one another...she probably thought she was doing something nice for me and was trying to be kind and all I could take it as was an insult. Some wise women said that it was in insecurity issue with DIL's and I agree. But it isn't an insecurity we have in life, it is more of an insecurity specifically with our MIL's. I am extremely secure knowing that I provide a clean, comfortable home for me and DF and I am a great cook. But somehow she makes me feel like I'm not and I know that it wasn't her intention to make me feel that way. Maybe we DIL's want so badly to be accepted by these women that we become insecure when around them. I guess I should just speak for myself lol! I know that all of my secure feelings go right out the door whenever she says anything...this is not fair to her and now that I have been reading the things you ladies have said, I understand that she has a right to say things and she might not always be trying to put me down when she does. How can I stop being so dang sensitive if she won't give me a chance to stop being sensitive? She will never come to my house anymore so I don't have the opportunity to show her that I am willing to change and willing to see her side of things.
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: pam1 on July 21, 2011, 05:14:36 PM
Lajone, good questions.  I wonder similar things.  The best way I can put it is imagine your friend coming over and start cleaning your home or rating your cooking.  It wouldn't feel too good then either!  But, with a friend you can comfortably step back from the relationship or talk to them directly.  When it's your spouses mother it's a whole 'nother story.

That is why I and Sassy and a few others love those etiquette books.  If you wouldn't do it to a friend, you shouldn't do it to an in law!
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: TheChoiceIsYours on July 21, 2011, 05:37:45 PM
Lajone, as I read your posts, it seems there might be a control issue going on, in regards to your MIL, and that now she feels as though she's lost control...to you, and that now make you her nemesis in her eyes. I say this because of the cleaning your home thing you've mentioned, the church thing, and also because of the panty thing.

Your MIL might also have become embarassed when you spoke up to her about the panty thing, and that could be why she stopped trying with you at that time. Sometimes embarassment is covered up by anger.

As for the question on would I be honest with you (as a MIL) about what is bothering me? Absolutely. I mean, if things are already stressed-out, sometimes it's good to just clear the air and move on from there. But then again, I'm me and am basing this solely on my own perspective.

BTW, you seem to me like a dream DIL! You have been honestly trying your best with your MIL as far as I can see. But just like with anyone else in this world, we simply don't get along with everyone...as much as it hurts sometimes and wish it weren't the case.

Best of Luck to you Lajone, and I sincerely hope that in time, all this will work itself out for the best.




Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: Pen on July 21, 2011, 06:00:03 PM
Quote from: Lajone on July 21, 2011, 04:59:33 PM
And on another note...why is it that we DIL's feel like nothing we ever do is good enough when our Mil's do things like clean our homes, rearrange our pantries, cook for us, etc. Whenever my FMIL used to come over the first thing she did was start cleaning my home and it infuriated me because it made me feel like I wasn't doing a good enough job. This is what I mean when I say we are highly sensitive to one another...she probably thought she was doing something nice for me and was trying to be kind and all I could take it as was an insult. Some wise women said that it was in insecurity issue with DIL's and I agree. But it isn't an insecurity we have in life, it is more of an insecurity specifically with our MIL's. I am extremely secure knowing that I provide a clean, comfortable home for me and DF and I am a great cook. But somehow she makes me feel like I'm not and I know that it wasn't her intention to make me feel that way. Maybe we DIL's want so badly to be accepted by these women that we become insecure when around them. I guess I should just speak for myself lol! I know that all of my secure feelings go right out the door whenever she says anything...this is not fair to her and now that I have been reading the things you ladies have said, I understand that she has a right to say things and she might not always be trying to put me down when she does. How can I stop being so dang sensitive if she won't give me a chance to stop being sensitive? She will never come to my house anymore so I don't have the opportunity to show her that I am willing to change and willing to see her side of things.

I imagine you feel a lot like I do when my DIL comes to my home and criticizes my childrearing, my furniture & appliances, my location, my career, my education, my choice of vacation spots, my clothes, my favorite TV shows, my housekeeping, my cooking, etc. etc. (To be fair, lately she's backed off somewhat & seems to be really trying to tolerate us.)
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: Rose799 on July 21, 2011, 06:53:05 PM
Quote from: Pen on July 21, 2011, 06:00:03 PM
I imagine you feel a lot like I do when my DIL comes to my home and criticizes my childrearing, my furniture & appliances, my location, my career, my education, my choice of vacation spots, my clothes, my favorite TV shows, my housekeeping, my cooking, etc. etc. (To be fair, lately she's backed off somewhat & seems to be really trying to tolerate us.)

I had a close friend who spent time twice a year with her ac/gc in another state.  She never wanted to be treated as a guest, but rather, as part of the family, which meant helping with daily chores.  She felt hurt when dil didn't want her help.  She was the kindest person I've ever known.  Maybe your dil would like to help out with some chores, Pen?  ::)
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: Pen on July 21, 2011, 07:50:27 PM
Well you know, she offers to help w/food prep and clean up, and although I am afraid she'll find more to criticize if she opens cupboards and drawers (whoa, feel vulnerable much?), I do appreciate it and often take her up on her kind offers so she'll feel more like family and less like an aquaintance.

Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: justus on July 22, 2011, 06:37:58 AM
Your MIL sounds a lot like a woman I work with. We got along great until she moved to another position and I moved into her old one, then all of a sudden it was painful for her to be in my presence. It was confusing and hurtful. She would come into my area, talk to the other person that was there, but not even acknowledge my presence, or if she was talking to someone, she would stop talking when I came near as if she was talking about me, which she most often wasn't, or as if she didn't want me to hear what she was saying.

Another co-worker explained to me that "women of a certain age" (she was in her 50s) decide they are going to take offense to someone, then find a reason to be offended even if that reason is petty. After that, they are justified in treating the person badly and they hold a grudge for years. This co-worker assured me that the reason the other person was treating me badly was very petty.

If she had to actually talk to me about work things, and it was sooo obviously painful for her to do so, she did it in such way as to make me feel like an idiot. After about 6 months of this, I got angry and snapped back and she backed off for a bit. Then it started again, and I snapped back again. Then I got tired of the whole thing. If she wasn't grown up enough to talk to me about what was bothering her, then I wasn't going to let her ruin my day. I was warned that actually talking to her about it would be a huge mistake. I decided to mirror how she treated me. I was unfailingly polite, unlike her, but if she ignored me, I ignored her, if she spoke to me, I would respond in kind. Even if how she was treating me bothered me, I didn't let her see it. I gave her nothing to complain about, and not one ounce of the satisfaction of having any sort of impact on my mood. Eventually it stopped bothering me because why should I care what a person like that thinks of me?

Three years later and she just started talking to me decently last week. After comparing notes with other people in the office, we realized she needs someone to hate. It was someone else before me, and she started treating that person decently only after I became her scapegoat. Now it is someone else' turn. I plan on treating her in the same way. I will be unfailingly polite, but I won't be friendly. I don't trust her.

I suggest you take the tact. Mirror your MIL's treatment of you. Be unfailingly polite and give her nothing to complain about. Talk to her when she talks to you and ignore her when she ignores you and don't let her moodiness impact your emotional well-being.

I know plenty of people who hate 14 year olds. Sometimes it is because the child reminds them of someone who they hated or who treated them badly in High School, other times it is jealousy, and other times it is because adolescents in general are just a pain in the behind. Your MIL probably doesn't know why herself so asking her won't do much good. It doesn't really matter, because how can you change who you are? If she has a problem with you, she has the responsibility to talk it out with you and I don't think she can, I don't think she knows how. It doesn't sound like she has very healthy coping mechanisms. To shut down like that is just childish. And I think it would help you to stop seeing her as someone who has a lot of power in this situation, because the only power she has is the power you give her.

I think most MILs don't really understand the impact they have on DILs. Most DILs just want to be accepted into the family (there are some glaring examples of just the opposite who are written about here) and are willing to do whatever it takes to be accepted. When an MIL is critical, it carries more weight than it should for the DIL whose ego is a bit wrapped up in becoming a good wife. The MIL is just human and doesn't get that the DIL just needs her support and acceptance. She is dealing with her own demons, which is realizing she is no longer the center of her DS' familial world. The DIL's world is expanding while the MIL's world is shrinking. The DIL gains another purpose while the MIL loses purpose.  Of course this doesn't apply in all situations. Sometimes one or both don't have good coping mechanisms, or are unwilling to change and grow, or are diagnosable. There are so many ways it can go wrong.
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: Pooh on July 22, 2011, 08:22:19 AM
Would I like for my DIL to call and say that?  Absolutely!  Like TCIY's post though, I am that type of person.  I would love if she did that and was truly willing to hear it.  I would also give her the same courtesy and hear her grieviences. 

My 1st MIL used to do the same thing to me when she came over, except she was very mouth about why she was doing it...because I didn't clean well enough, cook well enough, bath the kids well enough, wash clothes well enough...and on and on.  It wasn't me feeling like she was doing things to make me feel bad, she told me all the time.

I will say that we have talked about what is "normal" to some is not "normal" to others.  I was raised and like to pitch in when I go anywhere.  I wouldn't just take over, but I would say "Let me clean up, etc."  Not because I think I could do it better, but because I truly like to be a helpful houseguest.  I also know some people feel if they are a quest, they shouldn't help.  Nothing wrong with that either...just different opinions.  So I guess the answer is in what spirit is she doing this?
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: Sassy on July 22, 2011, 09:00:31 AM
Lajone you have a lot of really good ideas.  I hope you stay around WWU a while.  I think its a great place to gain understanding about what different women are going through in love and family.

I have some thoughts and wanted to post again based on what I just read, Rose and Pen's posts and also just watched, the amazing Brene Brown video on Vulnerability that Luise posted. The video was about human connections and how Vulnerability helps forge our connections and how Shame gets in the way of them.

Lajone I don't think you did anything wrong. I think you're a direct speaker and say what's on your mind.  You seem confident, although I don't know you.  Maybe your confidence and self-assuredness, even at 14, was just different than how MIL lives. I know you're here because you want to know how to make a connection with your MIL.  I am speaking from the heart.

The word comfort, comes up with FMIL a lot.  I'm thinking about what Rose said, about knowing someone who wanted to be comfortable and wanted to feel like a member of the family, by being treated like a member of the "household," not as a "guest" in the house.   Even if MIL wasn't comfortable around you as a teenager, she did spend the night at some point as his fiancee.   Maybe MIL feels like she let herself be comfortable enough in your and FDH's home, that she could make herself at home.   To wear what she wanted when she was hot. You invited her, she felt wanted, like a member of the "household".  (Also explains the cleaning, wanting to contribute).  Maybe she thought after all it's "family" and it's just before bed and so pains for modesty weren't needed, and she felt...comfortable.

Perhaps she didn't think anything of it all, didn't realize how much showed. She probably didn't think her body, at least to her son or the girl 20 years younger than her, could make someone uncomfortable.   She was hot, and perhaps cranky the heat was too high or the ac too low or not on.  She's feeling comfy ... then without warning (to her) gets told she's weird and that she should have realized she needs to cover up. Shame gets in the way of connections.   Shame is a very personal unpleasant self blaming, self chastising feeling. Ashamed of her body.   Ashamed at herself for allowing herself to feel so comfortable in your home she could wear panties.  How can one defend against offending someone with your body without making oneself even more vulnerable? A semi-medical reason.   And if she felt deep shame, that was probably so uncomfortable she thought, never again.  She will not make herself vulnerable.

Brene Brown notes the sad thing about not being vulnerable, and trying to make yourself numb to emotional pain, is you can't feel the joy either. Again, not that you did anything wrong when dealing with this. Because even the etiquette books don't have how to handle that. I am not blaming you, and I want that to be clear.  This a mere guess from someone who never met either of you, guessing one possible way how MIL may have experienced it.  Perhaps you can use it in your quest in empathy and understanding for your MIL.



Amy Fisher is on Dr Drew's show this week and she shuts out in group when confronted.  This is junk tv and I don't know you much less your in laws, but twice in one day I came across this shutting out or shuttng down.  So like the other video, it's coming to mind and might be worth mentioning?   This might just be my head mixing an image of your MIL and Amy Fisher, but I picture it almost catatonic? I don't know if its just a way to stay calm or if she checks out.     Dr Drew explains to the group the shut out is disassociating. A learned response to stress, ususally formed in response to childhood trauma. Shutting down is how a child will survive a situation they are not equipped to handle.  When they grow up, some people might still do that as a response to stress or danger. 

Since you've observed her do this with everybody, at least it's not personal against you.  In any case, I would not confront MIL.  She doesn't like it.  Don't bring up issues, if she doesn't want to talk about them she won't.  That's who she is.  Work around that.  I like your idea invite her to dinner.  If she doesn't want to come over, maybe a neutral ground out somewhere.  A movie (not a  lot of talking).   Follow etiquette :-) If she says no, don't ask why not.  Tell her sorry she can't make it, and let her know you'll invite her again soon, next time you're defrosting some steaks.   Keep trying every few weeks.  Keep being very polite and nonconfrontational about it. 
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: pam1 on July 22, 2011, 09:18:26 AM
Lots of good advice here! 

I wonder...even though the tshirt and underwear ensemble is uncomfortable for you, just how uncomfortable?  Is it a hill to die on for you?  Just curious.  Also, would have turning down the a/c may have helped her?  You would have to dress warmer but it might avoid the conversation lol.

I do realize her choice of jammies would make many people uncomfortable.  It wouldn't have bothered me personally, as long as she was alright.  I don't know, it's not much different than a bathing suit. 

What I'm trying to say and taking forever to get out, is that perhaps there is just a difference between how you and she feel about bodies.  IMO, it's a common difference too.  I tend to think as long as she is not inappropriate with it and not forcing you to join her style of dress, then perhaps it is something to file away and know that this is how she is.  If she spends the night, this is what she might wear etc. 
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: Pooh on July 22, 2011, 09:27:30 AM
I think Pam's got a good point.  I remember a girlfriend of mine walking around her house one day, while we were getting ready in her bra and panties.  It didn't bother me, as we had been friends for years, but I couldn't believe she would walk around like that in front of her teenage boys that were on the couch.  I always put a robe or something over myself before going out in front of my Sons, unless I had on full fledge pj's.  To her it was normal...to me it wasn't.  I'm sure she probably thought I was self-concious for putting a robe on.  She was always more outgoing with her body in clothes anyway.  Lower cut blouses and such, so it truly could be that MIL just doesn't see anything wrong with it.  Like Sassy, I'm not excusing her behavior just trying to see where she could have been coming from.
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: RedRose on July 22, 2011, 10:01:13 AM
Lajone...I would NOT like to discuss the way I was feeling over the phone or in person. I am not good with confrontations, they upset me and have the potential of making matters worse. Confrontations sometimes bring out the worse in people and something may be said that was never meant to be said because emotions are high. How you are feeling today about a situation may change tomorrow, next week, or in a couple months.

I am the type of person that let things settle and watch things get better. They do...most of the time.
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: Pen on July 22, 2011, 10:58:51 AM
IMO, a lot of the behavior we think is weird or unacceptable comes from people we do not like in the first place. Which comes first, disliking the person or their behavior? Chicken or egg?

Why does my voice irritate my DIL yet soothe my DD? Why do my friends enjoy our casual style of entertaining/our home but DIL cannot? Yet she can accept her extended FOO's less than luxurious hospitality?

Would anyone running around in undies and an oversized shirt offend you Lajone, or is it just your FMIL?
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: lancaster lady on July 22, 2011, 11:06:15 AM
hi Lajone ,

About the house cleaning .....perhaps by doing this she thinks she is helping , not criticising .
I personally never opened a drawer or cupboard in my DIL's house , because I never felt
at home there .so maybe she feels so at home , she wants to help , just another angle on the subject.
My own FDIL and I had a head to head a wee while ago , and we came out the other side with perhaps a better
understanding of how we both felt on a lot of things . It's hard to go through but sometimes a relationship
needs an air clearing .
I know the other ladies do not agree with contacting your MIL , but it sorted our relationship out once and for all.
We now live together ...... ;D
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: elsieshaye on July 22, 2011, 11:36:30 AM
I personally would be really uncomfortable with anyone, even good friends, lounging around my house in a t-shirt and panties.  I don't even do that in my own home, especially if my son is there.  I do agree it's a question of personal taste and philosophy, but until you know for sure that someone is ok with it, especially if you're staying in their home, I don't think it's ok to just go ahead and do that and expect no reaction.  I'd definitely say something to the person, but the delivery would depend on who it was.
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: Silver Spring on July 22, 2011, 12:58:52 PM
I think we are taught to act in accordance to our surrounding, socially. I walked into a friend's house. She has a shoe rack at the door. My shoes come off. I spent the night at my sister in law's house, she likes to sleep in. I woke early, stayed in my room, read a book. Some households say Grace, some don't. Some people eat with the TV on, others don't. As a guest, I owe a little allegiance to the things going on around me. That means I don't go over to the TV and turn it on while everyone is enjoying dinner. I think that this could easily apply to parading around in underwear as well. If everyone else is in nightwear or dressed for the day, I need to conform a little.
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: pam1 on July 22, 2011, 01:06:47 PM
I agree that we should follow the laws of the land in others home.  However, in the interest of maintaining or promoting good relationships I'd look at this type of situation with a good eye toward myself too.  Not everything that makes *me* uncomfortable needs to be changed by someone else.  Sometimes I can put things aside for a better goal or outcome.  I tend to think these types of situations are the same.  If it's your hill to die on, so be it. 

When I think of things that make me uncomfortable I do run through a checklist.  Is it hurting someone?  Is it abusive behavior?  Etc.  If it's all no and it's just odd or weird, I let it go.  Life is too short, IMHO.



Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: Pen on July 22, 2011, 01:30:32 PM
When in Rome...?

I'm not a fan of bodily displays, but mostly because, with the exception of a couple of weeks many years ago when I was nearly a hottie, I don't want to display mine, LOL. I think we feel uncomfortable more when older people cross a line than when the younger ones do. At family reunions some of our teens/young adults run around in clothes that are too skimpy or too revealing for their body types IYKWIM & we kind of look the other way, hoping their parents will sort them out.
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: pam1 on July 22, 2011, 01:43:23 PM
LOL Pen.  I can't remember where it was but a couple years ago there was some town in the USA that outlawed underclothes being shown in public.  I guess the trend at the time was to show them lol.

To be fair, I'm probably really off the mark with how inappropriate or appropriate this sort of thing is.  Remember my father was in the delivery room with me lol.  I'm not even sure I would have noticed.  The most uncomfortable part of it for me would have been asking to borrow a shirt, I really do not like sharing clothes.

I guess we all have our different quirks lol
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: sorrowhasaname on August 15, 2011, 01:00:20 PM
This is just my opinion, but I think her behavior regarding walking around in her panties was totally inappropriate, and even if it didn't bother her son, she should have immediately responded to your wishes. It is your home.
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: Keys Girl on August 15, 2011, 05:02:15 PM
Lajone, here's my advice:

Never try to teach a pig to sing, 'cause it don't work and it aggravates the pig.

I do know people who have turned into raving lunatics during menopause, the sister of a girlfriend just about lost every member of her family because her mood swings were more severe than Charlie Sheen's, but the panty incident seems beyond the pale, she should have brought her own jammies that she would have been comfortable in.  If any in-law of mine walked around the house in their underwear, I would want to call 911, on the other hand, I can't help but think that at Christmas time a package of underwear embroidered with the days of the week or Santa would make an appropriate gift, and I would give her a new box every year in her stocking.

She is who she is, she will like who she likes, if she ignores you that just totally bad manners and is a reflection of her not you.

I wouldn't waste much energy in trying to please her, and in fact I would suggest that instead of meeting at your house where she can be critical of whatever, get together at the latest "hot" restaurant in town and she can critique their cleanliness standards.  Focus on your husband and your marriage and your happiness, you can't make her happy and I don't think you should be sending energy in trying to.  That little piggie won't ever sing!



Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: sorrowhasaname on August 15, 2011, 06:09:18 PM
Keys Girl ..I love your reply about the Christmas Panties....that is so good!
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: CrystalBall on August 15, 2011, 06:28:14 PM
As someone near and dear to me is going through your identical situation, I'll pass along the same advice I gave her.  You come across to me as a kind and loving young woman, so is the person I know very well.  Because you are kind hearted it is difficult to understand a personality that is deliberately unkind.  People like this can be boldly manipulative in their blatant unkindness or passive aggressive type gaming, knowing it upsets you, makes you question if you are the problem, should try harder.  Your impulse is to "talk it out", make the person realize you are a nice daughter in law,and logically have a pleasant relationship moving forward.  People who act like your mother in law are illogical.  If there is any relationship, let it be saying hello when she phones and calling your husband to speak to his mother. 
I would not ask her what it is about you that bothers her as she should consider herself fortunate you don't ask her what is wrong with her.  These types like to turn the tables so give her no power to confuse you or guilt trip you with how you might improve when she is the one needing improvement.  If you think she would possibly say nothing to any inquiry of what she doesn't like about you, any passive aggressive silence would just distress you more.  Take joy in your future baby and the many people in your life that have surely remarked on your positive traits and thoughtfulness


Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: Pooh on August 16, 2011, 08:05:04 AM
That or buy her a housecoat every holiday? Oh lol....I just cracked myself up!  It's gonna be one of those days!
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: justanoldgrandma on August 18, 2011, 10:20:27 PM
LaJone, women like your FMIL is what started all the MIL jokes!  As a MIL, I would LOVE to hear dil think of my feelings and how to make the family unit work!  As the Southerners say, "Bless your heart!" and I mean it sincerely! 

Thank you for not following the exclusive MIL bashing site (and we may all know what THAT one is!)  You are genuinely trying to please dh and his family. 

There are MILs and DILs galore that want to make peace in the family and then there are the trouble makers.   Some dils and some mils want the son/dh all to themselves (jealousy) and I think that's part of it; and then there are the women of both groups who are just impossible to please. 

I'm glad you are on this site; there are a lot of suggestions and wisdom offered here and you can post to your heart's content!  Lurk no more; post!
Title: Re: Not lurking anymore
Post by: justanoldgrandma on August 19, 2011, 08:25:16 AM
One poster commented on MIL cooking and cleaning w/o being asked.  It makes the dil feel like she isn't doing these chores well enough.  I have become aware of this and try to ask before I do any chore at dil's home bc of this; she plans the meals and ask what I can do to help.  In our eagerness to help, sometimes we MILs do too much and hurt the dils' feelings when the intention was to help.  Thanks for the reminder!