WiseWomenUnite.com

Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: justdontunderstand on June 04, 2010, 09:09:34 AM

Title: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: justdontunderstand on June 04, 2010, 09:09:34 AM
I am new here but I found this site in hopes of finding help for a DIL problem. My son is a newlywed (less than a year). He has not lived at home in over 12 years. We do not know his wife well and they live 1000 miles from us. We do not call our son often nor do we demand visits or anything like that. We supported his marriage and wedding both financially and emotionally. We told his wife we were happy to have her as a DIL. We have done everything we know to do to develop a good relationship yet she persists in being distant and cold.  We have not seen our son in nearly 10 months. Yet we are considered "meddlesome" by his new wife. She seems to us to be engaged in what she sees as a power struggle for his attention---all of his attention. Prior to him meeting, dating and marrying her....we had a good relationship with our son. Now it seems our son is drifting further and further away as he tries to please her need to disassociate from his family.  What gives? I just don't understand. Now my heart is not nearly as open as it once was towards our DIL. I suppose I am trying to protect myself from further hurt and rejection. Is there anyone out there with similar issues? There is no open warfare---no name calling---nothing but stoney silence in our relationship (or lack of relationship) with our DIL.  :(
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: luise.volta on June 04, 2010, 11:10:59 AM
Welcome! Many here struggle with what you have described. We can't change our DILs or our DS's choice. That leaves us trying to accept "what is." Our DSs get caught in the middle and usually back our DILs to keep the peace.
As a result, on many different levels we are all trying to move on when we never dreamed we would ever have to. Most of us started out open-hearted and supportive only to find out that it isn't about us...not really.

Over the last year, we have also seen graphic evidence of the other side of the coin...a loving DIL and a possessive and neurotic MIL. None of it works...when one person is out of balance...so it the relationship or lack thereof.

We share pain here and we look for solutions. We support each other and believe it or not we often heal without seeing much change in the dynamics that are beyond our control. Sending love...
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Sassy on June 04, 2010, 11:21:45 AM
Welcome and while it's always "sorry you have to be here" this really is a great place for support, nurturing and understanding.

I am a DIL and your phrase "power struggle" also partly explains what I am also experiencing.  With my MIL it's of the the financial and family alliance variety. (DH used to pay a lot of her bills.  When he started saving for our future, and our assets became combined, she did not accept that he would not continue to pay off her department store charges.  DH's Grandmother and Aunt have been used to deliver her messages of displeasure, which in turn affects our relationship with them.  If we pay her bills, she'll be willing to be kind to us, and so will they.  The great stand-off. )  Yet I understand how distance and silence and coldness can often feel worse than a direct attack.  Because you don't know what you're dealing with, or if there is an unsaid solution that they're waiting for you to "guess" and implement. 

I know exactly what you mean about wanting love and feeling you should to keep your heart open for it, yet having to close off parts to protect yourself.

I realize it's been mostly stony silence, but did your son or DIL tell you DIL felt you were "meddlesome"?  Was it during the time of the wedding planning, or after the marriage?
Generally speaking, I think that attempting to maintain postive communication with your son, even if it's mostly one sided and superficial, and not discussing his wife at all with him, is a safe course of action.   Keeping on the right side of that fine line between interested and nosy,  attentive and pressuring, can be tricky, but only you can determine if it's worth continuing to navigate.  Sometimes, you may need to take a break.  And maybe the echo of silence will reach your son's ears and prompt him to fill it a bit.  Although letting him miss you (hoping he'll miss you) can be a gamble.  For me, managing what could be my own future regret is why I work to keep my door open, despite having other's doors shut in my face.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: justus on June 04, 2010, 02:02:21 PM
I have a problem with the term "power struggles". Really, you have no power in this situation, so there isn't actually a struggle for power going on. You are struggling to keep the same level of closeness and attention that you once had from your son and it just isn't going to to happen.  At this point it is a waiting game. This is the letting go part us parents of adult children find so hard to do. If we let go completely will they fly back to us? You never know, but for our child's sake, and for our own, we have to let go. Either way, your relationship with him was going to change once he got married no matter who he married. It is inevitable.   

They are going through the process of becoming a married couple and it isn't always easy going. If she is at all insecure, or if he has given her good reason to be insecure, any outside loyalty could be threatening to her and that may be what is going on. This may have absolutely nothing to do with you, yet. But, if you actually make it into a power struggle, it will become about you. As I said, it is a waiting game, one that requires large amounts of love and patience. Remember, they are just kids finding their way and are still defining themselves as adults.

DH reminds me of this all the time when it comes to my step-daughter and her H, and I remind him of this when it comes to GD. I have to tell him often that our parents didn't give us the room to mess up our children and their interference meant our kids were messed up in lots and lots of different ways we never would have come up with alone. Now it is SD and SIL's turn to mess up their kid.

My own son never calls me. Because of my Mom's helpfulness (read undermining us as parents) he has so many loyalty issues regarding her, me and his Dad (my xH). It would be easy to be hurt by the attention my M gets and that I don't get, but I know it isn't about me, but about her, her manipulation, and him allowing her to manipulate him. I know he loves me and I don't need him to show me constantly, so he enjoys talking to me when I call. I also know that I don't want to be my M, I want him to want to be around me because he WANTS to, not because he was guilted into it. Given Mom's jealous nature, I figure I will be golden when he does get married and Mom pulls her normal stuff. I love him no matter what, and I make sure he knows that. I am making all the effort right now and that is OK.  It is what he needs from me right now.

What does your son need from you right now? I would bet he needs you to back off a bit and to give him some space. He is negotiating some tough waters right now and the last thing he needs from you is to throw in some guilt and loyalty issues. He knows you love him, you know you love him. Let him figure this out and let go of the expectation that he is going to see you at the same rate he did before.  I know it is hard not to take it personally, but it probably isn't personal. You just aren't the priority you were before and that is natural with newlyweds. The minute you take it personal, you bring hurt feelings into and, well, it is hard to recover from that.  This is the time to take the high road.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: luise.volta on June 04, 2010, 02:37:02 PM
Very well put. Simple but not easy. We get stuck (at least I do) in how I want things to be instead of having them be how they are. And I want to vote on change. Sending love...
'
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Pen on June 04, 2010, 06:21:58 PM
I may be coming from a MIL POV, but I think 10 months without seeing DS is more than enough "space." There's something else going on here.

Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: luise.volta on June 04, 2010, 06:30:13 PM
Any ideas?
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: DDM on June 05, 2010, 10:47:00 AM
Newly weds, 1,000 miles away. They are probably busy settling in and saving money.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: WherehasTimothygone on June 05, 2010, 05:58:06 PM
Quote from: penstamen on June 04, 2010, 06:21:58 PM
I may be coming from a MIL POV, but I think 10 months without seeing DS is more than enough "space." There's something else going on here.

I have not seen my son since April 2009.
He has not seen his father since Dec. 25, 2008!
You are not alone.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: donewithdrama on June 05, 2010, 07:29:43 PM
justdontunderstand,

There has to be something you are either missing or not admitting to yourself and us. My MIL created a power struggle once DH and I got engaged and she felt like she was losing her power over him. You need to think very hard about whether you are making trouble where there is none before you ruin the possibility of a good loving relationship with your son and dil. Sons are SUPPOSED to get married and focus on being husbands and building a life with their wives.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: luise.volta on June 05, 2010, 07:45:09 PM
For me, and it may not apply to anyone else here, I tripped over my expectations. I had a picture and I thought they would mold their lives that way because to me it was the "only" picture. I just didn't get that they would do what they did when they started a separate family unit and started making their own rules. Now, I get it. My surviving son lives in Hawaii...they like the sunshine. I live in Washington State...I like the rain.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Pen on June 05, 2010, 10:29:26 PM
JDU, I feel your pain. Many of us have done everything "right" such as giving space, not giving advice, helping when asked and leaving alone when not, etc. etc. only to be cut off as if we were monsters-in-law. Luise coined the phrase "cutting him from the herd." I wonder if this is what you're facing? There are many MILs here who've dealt with similar situations - some say "move on," some say "don't ever give up" and there are many more schools of thought on this. I hope you find something that works for you! Take care - we're here for you.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Pooh on June 07, 2010, 07:12:57 AM
JDU, welcome.  Just like the other ladies have stated, there are many of us here with the same problem when it comes to sons.  You have already received great insights from the others and I agree with them.  I have had to learn that the close relationship that I shared with my son, just isn't in the cards right now for us.  I think what many of us share is the "head-scratching" scenario that seems to present itself when our Son's marry.  I think we all understand that their wife is now their priority, but have a difficult time comprehending why the DIL can maintain a close relationship with her Mother and family but we can not do the same with the DS. 

Now, that is just my personal experience with my own and some of the others here.  Not all DILS.  Alot of them are very good at maintaining both and have close relationships with both.  I do see a recurring pattern here with the MILs that are having this issue.  It seems that our sons married a female that was either very controlling, insecure or both. 

And as far as donewithdrama goes, she is the DIL we all keep trying to adopt and trade for.  She has the opposite problem with a controlling and insecure MIL.  (Still waiting for my Fed-Ex box DWD with you in it!)
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Pen on June 07, 2010, 08:38:04 AM
It's so important to think before we speak to DS & DIL when we feel rejected or cut off. When we're in the midst of a big bout of anger or self-pity we can say things that will never be forgotten and are impossible to take back. Scream into a pillow, rant in a journal, post here, or talk to someone who understands and who you are certain beyond a doubt will honor a code of silence (you never know how your words will wind their way back to DS & DIL, but it can happen.)

Do not succumb to the temptation to discuss these issues with DS & DIL while you are still emotional! I figured this out after reading many posts here and making a couple of blunders of my own. Now when I feel tension regarding DIL I tread lightly around her. It seems to reassure both DIL & DS that I'm not going to use emotions to try to control them. DS said a couple of weeks ago after some big life-altering plans had been made that DIL was beginning to see how controlling her own parents were, and she appreciated our hands-off style and acceptance of their adult decision-making abilities.

This doesn't mean that DIL totally accepts us and wants to be around us more - she's still critical, rude, standoffish & rejecting. I still wish we could have a big, happy family. However, she grudgingly lets DS visit (usually with her, but occasionally he comes alone) and has agreed to attend an upcoming family reunion. Last year I was certain this would never happen!

Take care.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Pooh on June 07, 2010, 09:55:16 AM
So glad to hear that Pen!  Sounds like progress, maybe small, but progress! Yay!
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: luise.volta on June 07, 2010, 10:01:08 AM
Yes, progress...Pen. Inch by inch the miles go by.  ;)
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Pen on June 07, 2010, 12:07:04 PM
Thanks, everyone. This site has helped me more than anything else I've encountered. I'm so glad I stumbled in!
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: stilltryen on June 07, 2010, 01:57:47 PM
DILs!!  I won't even go into all the crap from the wedding, so fine.  They're married.  Two weeks later (after they get back from the honeymoon), they invited me & hubby to their house as they were going to open the gifts.  We were told to get there at 7, which we did.  We walked in and my son and his new wife were having dinner with her parents.  We were not invited to dinner, we were just invited to watch them open the gifts.  I never said anything.  We had them over for the holidays and miscellaneous other events.  When we see DS, he'll say, "Yeah, her folks were over for dinner last Sunday," or "We had her folks over for a bbq," etc.  Not a call or anything for our birthdays, but, of course, we're expected to remember theirs.  Anyway, a couple of months ago, DS and I are having lunch and he mentions that her parents were over for dinner.  I guess I was in the mood, so I said, "That's really nice that you two are so close to her parents.  We haven't been invited to your home for over a year."  It must have hit home because we've been invited twice since then. 

OH!  But no, you see DIL is not happy that she has to host us for dinner.  My son has to make all the food for us and after dinner, I help him clean up.  She just sits there and does absolutely nothing.  She's civil, but believes everything I say is "code" for some other underlying thing.  The dogs had spilled some water from their bowl, so I got a paper towel and said, "Oh, I'll wipe this before anyone slips on it.  The dogs dripped some water here."  Ooops, that evidently was "code" for "your house is filthy."  She got upset with me.  I really don't even want to bother at this point, but I know that's not the answer either.   Long sigh...............
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Pen on June 07, 2010, 03:49:36 PM
Wow! You were invited to their house? I'm impressed!  ::)

DS has been married a few years and we've never (I'm not embellishing) been invited to their house for anything except to help them move, and on those occasions I had to speak up to get a lunch break. They would have worked us literally to death on the hottest day of the year. It's her parents in, DS's parents out.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: stilltryen on June 07, 2010, 07:56:21 PM
Wow penstamen, that's terrible.  My son has been married about a year and a half.  The good part is that I talk to him all the time and I'm really close to him.  I know that he wants us to be friends, but we're both very strong-willed and frankly, I'm not willing to put up with stuff.  I'll go so far and then that's it.  She is a spoiled rotten only child whose parents were very well off and indulged her.  If something doesn't interest her, she doesn't bother.  They seem to be happy, so we pretty much leave them alone.  If they want something, we help them, otherwise we're not interested in their affairs - since, as I said, I see my DS quite frequently.  I could care less about seeing her.  However, now she's pregnant.  She's forbidden us to buy anything for the baby until she has a chance to "research it."  I'm not sure how much research is involved on a 100% cotton receiving blanket . . . but . . . um . . . okay.  Whatever.  She didn't let us tell anyone she was pregnant for the longest time.  She comes up with all these rules, now the excitement of our first grandchild has gone by the wayside, that's for sure.  I never know if I'm going to offend her with something else. 
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: luise.volta on June 07, 2010, 08:02:41 PM
Walking on eggshells. I just hate it! When a person, (MIL or DIL) has a sense of entitlement, it's a road block!  >:(
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: luise.volta on June 08, 2010, 10:24:25 AM
Anna - You and I have asthma and cat allergy in common, unfortunately. I also have COPD with emphysema from years of asthma. I was cured of the cat allergy about 20 years ago with NLP hypnosis. Amazing. After the session, (about 1/2 an hour), I was told to go someplace where there were lots of long-term cat residents. I cringed because we were leaving on a Hawaii vacation the next day...and I knew I would be in the hospital instead. But I did it. Went into my friend's house,  picked up one of her cats and buried my face in her fur. My friend was terrified. There was a moment when I could feel my respiratory track saying "Shouldn't we be doing something here?"...LOL...and then that passed and I have never had a moment's trouble since. (Except that my lungs are trashed.) The NLP hypnotherapist was my son Kirk.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Pooh on June 08, 2010, 10:35:26 AM
Gee thanks Luise.  I had to go "google" NLP hypnosis to find out what it was.....lol.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: luise.volta on June 08, 2010, 10:37:58 AM
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: cremebrulee on June 08, 2010, 11:39:46 AM
Quote from: justdontunderstand on June 04, 2010, 09:09:34 AM
I am new here but I found this site in hopes of finding help for a DIL problem. My son is a newlywed (less than a year). He has not lived at home in over 12 years. We do not know his wife well and they live 1000 miles from us. We do not call our son often nor do we demand visits or anything like that. We supported his marriage and wedding both financially and emotionally. We told his wife we were happy to have her as a DIL. We have done everything we know to do to develop a good relationship yet she persists in being distant and cold.  We have not seen our son in nearly 10 months. Yet we are considered "meddlesome" by his new wife. She seems to us to be engaged in what she sees as a power struggle for his attention---all of his attention. Prior to him meeting, dating and marrying her....we had a good relationship with our son. Now it seems our son is drifting further and further away as he tries to please her need to disassociate from his family.  What gives? I just don't understand. Now my heart is not nearly as open as it once was towards our DIL. I suppose I am trying to protect myself from further hurt and rejection. Is there anyone out there with similar issues? There is no open warfare---no name calling---nothing but stoney silence in our relationship (or lack of relationship) with our DIL.  :(

I'm so sorry your going thru this...please understand, what I'm about to say applies to me..and only me...I went thru the same things and here is what, I did not understand at the time.

When our sons are with us, they depend on us...we are the women in they're lives...however, when sons take a wife, our lives as we know it change forever, and that is what most parents do not understand, especially mothers b/c for most of our lives our children were our purpose, first and foremost.  So they marry and we are so happy, to have a DIL, some of us, ecstatic, it's what we've always wanted....however....

When our sons are dating they're future wives...all they talk about is us, why, b/c that's all they know how to talk about, mom does this or that, or she's the best cook, or a good mother, etc....if our son's are dating a woman with little confidence, this will greatly intimidate her....hurt her and make her fear she will never be able to live up to us....

We as older, more confident women, have learned to live life by our own rules....so we tend to get in this rut of thinking everyone else thinks and feels like we do....and when they don't, we are very outspoken, not to mean any insult, but the older we get, the more things just roll out of our mouths, and speaking for myself, I know that's true....we have been used to doing things one way (ours) for years...we forget that things have changed, and they don't take care of babies the  way they used to, they don't give them solid food as early as they did our kids....everything goes against how we grew up...and when we voice our opinions, it hurts these young girls who are not only inexperienced, but afraid...I mean, try and think back to when you were her age....and your mother in law..hopefully you got along, but I'm sure you can remember those times when she was a pain in the butt....

It's no different....but one thing I found out thru experience, we as mother's have to learn to let go, and I mean let go, b/c the more we fight it, the harder we make it on ourselves....

I can't say as this is the problem your having...what I'm saying is, to please consider my words....

I forgot that I was no longer the matron of the family, that my GD is my Daughter in law's child, not mine, and I don't get to say how she does things, how she raises her and what she dresses her in, it's none of my business, also, it is none of my business what they're finances are...all that I should concern myself with as a mother, is that my son is happy...if our son's wouldn't be, they would not be with they're wives.

We as mother's are hurt inside, b/c the games over and we still want to play, and we don't know where to go from here, as our lives have changed forever...it is a habit a mother gets into, putting everyone else first....and looking to they're needs first, that when that job comes to a screeching halt, it's a shock to our nervous systems.

Sure our DIL's are going to think and feel differently about things, why, b/c she was raised differently...and she has her own ideas of how she wants to do things, regardless of what we think...and we must remember, this is her household as much as it is his...and when we're in they're homes we are guests....no more, no less....

We should never take advantage of the fact of boundaries....shouldn't be calling our sons or emailing them, every single day....I watch my friends who get along with they're DIL's....and they don't overstep boundaries, or tell they're DIL's how to raise they're kids...I know one person told me, it drove them nuts b/c they're MIL gave her kids candy....we shouldn't be doing that, those are the little things that go against they're grain...it's like, wull, they're our Grandkids and we're going to do it...wrong!  You see, we tend to take so many things for granted....and do things the way we were taught...and if someone tells us otherwise, we take it as, "Wull we're the adults, and this is the way it should be".  Wrong...they are adults to, and as much as I wanted to believe that my son was being smitten and told what to do....well, simply put, he changed, yes and people do change when they get married, they're whole outlook on life changes, they fall in love with another woman, who is going to care for them, who comes first, and who they love more then anything else in the world...including mom....they love us, but in a different way...that's life and the way it should be....

I read so many wrong things into what my daughter in law was doing, she thought I hated her, I thought she hated me, and we both thought each of us was trying to drive a wedge between her husband and my son and me...

I'm very very lucky...what I learned from this is all of the above and more...and that the greatest gift of love you can give someone you love, is to let them go...let them move on and allow them to change, b/c it is inevitable....change is a necessary part of life....and now we as mom's have to bow out gracefully and respond when we are called upon, but we do not and should not make ourselves victims...allow ourselves to be used...we should never be bailing our kids out of debt, or giving them money....b/c when we give them large sums of money, I don't care who you are, we're going to expect someting back...

When we take care of our grand children, it is normal for us to feel even more entitled....and we should not, we are simply the babysitter, take that time you have with your grand child and be happy for it, don't expect any more....any less....just as it is...don't go against your DIL's wishes no matter how silly you might think they are...if that is what she wants, that is what she would expect of you or any babysitter regardless of who it is....

We as our son's mothers have no entitlement to claim...this is the woman he chose, and if he is indeed unhappy, then he is the one that must make some serious decisions, we have no business getting involved or giving advice....he is the one who has a life to learn...through his own mistakes, not us...and it is no longer our job to try and protect him....b/c the more involved we get, the more it could backfire, and when you say something to him, in regards to a disagreement you've had with DIL, he takes it like your demeaning her, how would you take it if it was someone talking to you about your spouse, especially your parents....

So, that is my advice...even with the most difficult of DIL's....we need to bud out...and grow in a different direction, it is healthy and good....we now need to put ourselves first and not depend on our son's and DIL's for our happiness.  I have not seen my grand daughter in over 3 years....and I'm going to be seeing her very soon....

I have learned a very hard lesson to learn....I took ownership in this...there were things I did wrong, as much as I didn't' want to believe it...there were...and now, I'm looking forward to loving and respecting my DIL from a distance...and my son from a distance to...his life is no longer my concern.  Do I love him, heck yeah, with my life....but, I am no longer the lady in his life, nor am I needed as a mother....he has a new life, a new wife...and my job is done, so, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to exit on this note...plan things for you to do, that you can look foreward to....create good new things in your life...your life is not over, it has just begun...and you are the artist behind a brush that has an empty canvas to paint....



Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Pooh on June 08, 2010, 12:07:37 PM
THAT my friend, just went into the MIL and Mother hall of fame!
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: luise.volta on June 08, 2010, 12:18:36 PM
Wow, Creme!  :)

All I am going to add is that our sons have to decide. Some remain close to us without hanging on to our apron strings, some try to and fail...and some don't even try. They have different dispositions, different goals and different wives. The ball is in their court.

We have been "let go"... as Creme says, whether we let go or not. For a very long time we were the ultimate authority...no more. And that's a good thing. Kids become adults by standing tall. We did, remember? And life isn't over...we were fine before we became mothers and we can be fine again.

Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Nana on June 08, 2010, 12:34:57 PM
I too say   WOW Creme:

As I have to put my thoughts together, I will comment later on your post.  I sure respect your way of thinking.  That is all I have to say now.  LOL

Luise.....I agree with you, We were fine before we had our children (we functioned, we laughed, we enjoyed).  But when we have to let go......we will survive .    God, in his mercy gave us the strength and ability to move forward.   
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: keeponsmilin on June 08, 2010, 12:44:02 PM
Awesome post Creme-

Early in my marriage, my MIL "sweetly" tried to advise us about housekeeping, childcare, car selection, type of lunch meat to purchase, the temperature the dryer should be set on, etc.  The problem was that I had been married prior to her son, and had 2 small children already.  I had been running my own household for year before hubby came along.  These little "hints" drove me bananas.  MIL was never rude or mean spirited, but she annoyed us (yes- husband included) at almost every visit.  Then one day at lunch, MIL started complaining about how HER mother, Nadine, always tries to tell her how to run her life.  Hubby burst out laughing.  Now, anytime MIL starts overstepping the bounds with her advice, hubby says something like, "Okay Nadine". MIL will laugh and apologize.  I really don't think she ever made the connection between how her mother made her feel, and how she was treating us.  She is now aware, and things are much more pleasant.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: luise.volta on June 08, 2010, 03:26:46 PM
 ;D ;D Great story! And too true!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: stilltryen on June 08, 2010, 03:31:04 PM
Creme, read your post.  Not the issue here.  My son & DIL live about 30 minutes away.  We have never gone over unexpectedly.  We only go when we're invited, or in my husband's case, our son will ask him to stop by and help with stuff at the house.  So he does.  (We have a pickup, they don't and need help with yard waste, etc.)  We do not tell either how to manage their finances, how to run the household, how to clean, where to shop, what to cook, etc.  That being said, when I do make a comment, such as, "You should read the latest 'John Doe' novel, it's really good," my DIL whines to my son that I'm being bossy telling her what to do.  I'm not.  I don't give a rat's behind if she reads it or not, it was simply a random comment.  Thus, I have to watch what I say to the point that it's hard to have a conversation.  I can't think of anything that she really has to complain about.  They're invited to our home for all the holidays, we remember their birthdays, altho DIL never bothered to so much as call either me or hubby on ours. 

When I read posts about how an MIL was giving advice where non was solicited, or telling the DIL how to do something, etc., it kind of makes sense that there could be mixed signals going on.  That's why we don't ever get in their business.  Nevertheless, being around her is still a chore.  I can bet something I'll say ("Wow, it's really sunny out there today.") will offend her.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Sassy on June 08, 2010, 03:37:14 PM
Your whole post was great, Creme.

Bud this pun was the best!

Quote So, that is my advice...even with the most difficult of DIL's....we need to bud out...and grow in a different direction, it is healthy and good
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: cremebrulee on June 08, 2010, 04:06:21 PM
Quote from: Pooh on June 08, 2010, 12:07:37 PM
THAT my friend, just went into the MIL and Mother hall of fame!

thanks so much...however, it is how most mothers do see it...I can't tell you how many people told me I just had to let go, and honestly, I didn't understand, but when I did, things started to change, big time!
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: cremebrulee on June 08, 2010, 04:07:01 PM
Quote from: luise.volta on June 08, 2010, 12:18:36 PM
Wow, Creme!  :)

All I am going to add is that our sons have to decide. Some remain close to us without hanging on to our apron strings, some try to and fail...and some don't even try. They have different dispositions, different goals and different wives. The ball is in their court.

We have been "let go"... as Creme says, whether we let go or not. For a very long time we were the ultimate authority...no more. And that's a good thing. Kids become adults by standing tall. We did, remember? And life isn't over...we were fine before we became mothers and we can be fine again.

AMEN to that!  And thanks so much...
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: cremebrulee on June 08, 2010, 04:09:51 PM
Quote from: keeponsmilin on June 08, 2010, 12:44:02 PM
Awesome post Creme-

Early in my marriage, my MIL "sweetly" tried to advise us about housekeeping, childcare, car selection, type of lunch meat to purchase, the temperature the dryer should be set on, etc.  The problem was that I had been married prior to her son, and had 2 small children already.  I had been running my own household for year before hubby came along.  These little "hints" drove me bananas.  MIL was never rude or mean spirited, but she annoyed us (yes- husband included) at almost every visit.  Then one day at lunch, MIL started complaining about how HER mother, Nadine, always tries to tell her how to run her life.  Hubby burst out laughing.  Now, anytime MIL starts overstepping the bounds with her advice, hubby says something like, "Okay Nadine". MIL will laugh and apologize.  I really don't think she ever made the connection between how her mother made her feel, and how she was treating us.  She is now aware, and things are much more pleasant.

Good one, and great way to handle it...yanno, when I started to remember my mil, and how she drove me nuts, well, I also remembered, I was young, excited to start my new life as a wife and mother, and run my own household...however, everytime she suggested to do things a different way, she didn't realize, but she was out and out saying my way was wrong...you cannot put two women in a household, it doesn't work...

Thanks so much
Creme
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: cremebrulee on June 08, 2010, 04:35:07 PM
Quote from: stilltryen on June 08, 2010, 03:31:04 PM
Creme, read your post.  Not the issue here.  My son & DIL live about 30 minutes away.  We have never gone over unexpectedly.  We only go when we're invited, or in my husband's case, our son will ask him to stop by and help with stuff at the house.  So he does.  (We have a pickup, they don't and need help with yard waste, etc.)  We do not tell either how to manage their finances, how to run the household, how to clean, where to shop, what to cook, etc.  That being said, when I do make a comment, such as, "You should read the latest 'John Doe' novel, it's really good," my DIL whines to my son that I'm being bossy telling her what to do.  I'm not.  I don't give a rat's behind if she reads it or not, it was simply a random comment.  Thus, I have to watch what I say to the point that it's hard to have a conversation.  I can't think of anything that she really has to complain about.  They're invited to our home for all the holidays, we remember their birthdays, altho DIL never bothered to so much as call either me or hubby on ours. 

When I read posts about how an MIL was giving advice where non was solicited, or telling the DIL how to do something, etc., it kind of makes sense that there could be mixed signals going on.  That's why we don't ever get in their business.  Nevertheless, being around her is still a chore.  I can bet something I'll say ("Wow, it's really sunny out there today.") will offend her.

I'm sorry this is happening to you both...why don't you sit down and talk to her?  Not now, but give it time, and later on, when you feel the time is right communicate your sadness to her...tell her you understand because you were a DIL once yourself, and you want her to tell you when something is wrong.  If you don't and leave it go, everytime either one of you say something to each other, it's going to escalate in your minds and make things worse...thru fear of not being able to be yourself, your always going to be walking on egg shells...we cannot change who we are...tell her that...tell her you know you have faults...don't direct any blame towards her...she doesn't feel confident with you for some reason and this will continue on until it's talked out...and maybe it won't be remedied right away, maybe it will take years, like it did me...I was so afraid to talk to her...to reassure her that I didn't dislike her that I wanted to get along...and that I didn't hate her.

Yes, your situation is much different from mine, every situation is different, but if we want to get along we must adopt some new way of thinking, we must change "our" attitudes...which alone helps DIL feel more confident....not much has to be said, believe me....and to get into, well you did this or that is not good either....just talk to her, but more then talking, listen...with compassion and understanding and the strong desire to want her to understand your not her enemy....

I was scared to death, however, I did talk with my MIL and it helped and she was hurt, yes, indeed, b/c she meant no harm...she was only doing what she had done for years...but it didn't work for me...

I'm not saying your doing anything wrong, what your DIL has to understand is, your simply being who you are....nothing more....let her know you expect nothing and if you step on her toes, ask her to kindly let you know that your hurting her feelings...

Gosh when I think back to my youth as a young wife, I was so freaking sensitive...more then most...and I'm going to tell you something that not many of you are going to like...however, it is a proven fact, that our son's see something in they're wives that remind them of us, they're mothers...therefore, it may also be a battle of wills....

Whatever it is, there are reasons, and some of those reasons you may think are awfully foolish and immature, however, it is the way she thinks and feels at this moment in time...when she gets to be our age, she will not understand...so until then, it is our job to reassure through actions that we are not a threat to them...

Maybe your DIL hates to read, and when you said that, it made her feel less then competant...one never knows what is going on in the other person's mind...right then and there, you should have softly reassured her...yanno, I forget that not everyone likes to read...and I apologize, sometimes I just go on and on about things I like and get very excited about them, and I mean no insult to you...you could also explain that you've thought about things and maybe your a nervous talker because you want so much for the two of you to get along....

But find out what it is that hurt her, offends her or intimidates her and then reassure her like you would your own child, that you meant no harm.

When you let things go...we start to imagine all kinds of things, believe me I know, and I said a lot of the same words you all are saying now....

I'm not working against you, I'm on your side, and wanted peace in my life so badly that I had to change my whole attitude...and I was wrong in a lot of ways, but I couldn't see it then...I wouldn't see it, I kept saying, what did I to?????  I didn't do anything wrong...but I did....well, neither of us did, we were just being ourselves, who we are....

My DIL doesn't make a lot of thank you calls either, she is just that way, and she certainly is not going to change...just like I'm not...it's not a matter of who is wrong or right, it's a matter of how we all are raised....
doesn't make me right and her wrong, or visa versa...it's simply a matter of who we are...and understanding that, respecting that...people are people and you can't change them...all we can change is our own attitudes...there is presently friction between you two, she feels it and is probably very uncomfortable around you...afraid, and insecure, just as you are, both fearing rejection....it's a personality clash...for the first time in our lives, we are no longer in control...and we run around like chicken's without heads, b/c we don't understand that...our son's never talked back to us, however, I bet may times they wanted to, but didn't.  We just have to change how we think, and feel about all these things...and look for other thing in ourlives to make us happy....create things for us and our husbands to look forward to...this is the time in our lives, when we get to spend quality time with our husbands, get to know them again, prioritize them....because if we don't, we are affecting so manyother lives besides our own...


please understand, I'm not saying your doing anything wrong, or siding with your DIL, there is no right or wrong here...and so many of these things could be cleared up...talk to her, find out she is willing and never close the door if she is not ready...understand, no two people are ever on the same plain at the same time....there are times your huybby is romantic and your not, same thing...just try and be patient, and give it time...don't smother, be yourself...and when the time is right and you feel like there is no anger, so you won't point fingers at her, but more so, take ownership in this...find out what upsets her about you, and don't take it to heart...reassure her that you will try very hard to remember that, and you don't mean to hurt her...it's just the way you are....and you mean no insult.

does that make any sense?
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: cremebrulee on June 08, 2010, 04:37:40 PM
Quote from: Sassy on June 08, 2010, 03:37:14 PM
Your whole post was great, Creme.

Bud this pun was the best!

Quote So, that is my advice...even with the most difficult of DIL's....we need to bud out...and grow in a different direction, it is healthy and good

Life is growth and change, it just is...and the older we get, sometimes the harder change is, and we should never allow that to happen....just look at Luise and the change she and her hubby have been made to face....and yet, from all things comes so many good things, we just sometimes have to look for them and trust life...trust nature to know best...there is a season for all things...unfortunately life is not always fair...but the harder we fight it, the more we hurt ourselves....

Thanks so much Sassy...so good to see you....
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: stilltryen on June 08, 2010, 05:21:01 PM
Hey creme, thanks for the post.  No, DIL loves to read - which is why I might make suggestions on having her read something I've recently read.  She always grabs books when she's over here, takes them home and reads them, then sends them back.  Thus I know she pretty much enjoys what I read, but I honestly, honestly don't care what she reads at all.  I have also tried to talk to her.  I had dinner with her one evening and told her, "Hey, we love you.  You're the daughter we never had, blah, blah, blah," but the next time I turn around, my son will be telling me quietly that she's upset because I said . . .  whatever.  I totally understand about her being young, although not that young.  She's in her early 30's, so she should have picked up a little wisdom by now.  That's one of the reasons we keep our distance and don't interfere.  We want them to get a good, healthy start on their marriage.  (Of course, none of this applies to her own parents, who are there all the time and they do things with them constantly.  Evidently my son has to put up with her parents without complaining.)  That's why I get really irritated with her, we simply don't bug them, don't interfere, don't try to tell them what to do - so when we see them for a couple of hours every 6 or 8 weeks, is it really too much to ask that she quit acting like every word out of my mouth is a direct hit against her?  Sheesh.  Oh, and did I mention that she's always criticizing our parenting skills?  She thinks we're doing a horrible job with our younger sons.  This last time I wanted to say, "DIL, the day that I ask you for money, or for a roof, or clothes or anything else for those boys, then you can feel free to chime in.  Until that day, I raised your husband and you had no qualms chasing him until you finally got him.  So buzz off!!"  What I said was, "Hmmm, maybe you have a point," then changed the subject abruptly.  She got the message, because, of course, I heard about it later. 

And thank goodness for this site, I can vent to my heart's content.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Nana on June 08, 2010, 09:05:01 PM
Dear Creme:

As I said everyone has a way of seeing things....it all depends how it went for you.    When I read still's post....at least half of the first paragraph seemed my story....sounded as me.    We (hubby and I never did we visit unless invited, we never called or e-mail them unless it was an emergency.  We never try to tell them how to run their marriage, their kids, their finances, their house.  We only raise our hand when they needed help.  In my case and in many others, it is not that we were used to be the "matron""   or that we fell that our game was over.    We understood the time changes and people does too.  We underrstood that now they were a family and that we were seconds and it was okey with us.  Never did I think that my grandson was mine.....it was clear to me that I was only the grandmother who loved him with all my heart. 

You said that you realize that you have done things wrong.  Good for you because you were humble enough to recognize also your faults....but believe me, in many cases and mine was one, I never did anything wrong.   Expectations?  Well probably I  did something wrong....have high expectations....that was all I can acuse myself of.    I expected to be treated as my son's daughter and my grandson's nanny. 

Thank God...things turn out great for me.  But it wasnt because I took all the heat.  They worked out because I spoke my heart out. 

I do get along very well with dil now.  I still respect her wishes and rules but she gives me the place I deserve.   I give her her place too.  I do not expect from her material things, nor do I want her to love as she loves her mom.    By the way, Creme, remember that when these difficult dil are giving hell to their husband's family, they are completely different with their own family.  So what is different here?  All that you mentioned about stepping back because they are a new family only applies for the son's family not the dil's family?

Only my opinion.   

I am very glad that it worked for you. 
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Pen on June 08, 2010, 11:42:13 PM
Stilltryen, your DIL is so similar to mine I think they might be the same women. I, too, have been diligent about not butting in; no calls, no emails, no drop-ins. No advice, no criticism, no comments.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: cremebrulee on June 09, 2010, 03:49:40 AM
Quote from: stilltryen on June 08, 2010, 05:21:01 PM
Hey creme, thanks for the post.  No, DIL loves to read - which is why I might make suggestions on having her read something I've recently read.  She always grabs books when she's over here, takes them home and reads them, then sends them back.  Thus I know she pretty much enjoys what I read, but I honestly, honestly don't care what she reads at all.  I have also tried to talk to her.  I had dinner with her one evening and told her, "Hey, we love you.  You're the daughter we never had, blah, blah, blah," but the next time I turn around, my son will be telling me quietly that she's upset because I said . . .  whatever.  I totally understand about her being young, although not that young.  She's in her early 30's, so she should have picked up a little wisdom by now.  That's one of the reasons we keep our distance and don't interfere.  We want them to get a good, healthy start on their marriage.  (Of course, none of this applies to her own parents, who are there all the time and they do things with them constantly.  Evidently my son has to put up with her parents without complaining.)  That's why I get really irritated with her, we simply don't bug them, don't interfere, don't try to tell them what to do - so when we see them for a couple of hours every 6 or 8 weeks, is it really too much to ask that she quit acting like every word out of my mouth is a direct hit against her?  Sheesh.  Oh, and did I mention that she's always criticizing our parenting skills?  She thinks we're doing a horrible job with our younger sons.  This last time I wanted to say, "DIL, the day that I ask you for money, or for a roof, or clothes or anything else for those boys, then you can feel free to chime in.  Until that day, I raised your husband and you had no qualms chasing him until you finally got him.  So buzz off!!"  What I said was, "Hmmm, maybe you have a point," then changed the subject abruptly.  She got the message, because, of course, I heard about it later. 

And thank goodness for this site, I can vent to my heart's content.

yes, indeed, thank goodness for this site, and thanks so much for taking the time to read my posts....as I said so many times before, to try and let everyone know, my situation is not written in stone for everyone else...everyone's situation is different...and I do understand what your saying, your feelings and perspectives...it's very difficult to walk on egg shells around someone....please know in all sincerity...all I can offer here are a few suggestions from my experiences....I wish I could wave a magic wand and give everyone answers, so no one would have to experience this awful thing...believe me, I know the pain, frustration and desire to want to work things out...but I also know how stubborn I was...and kept saying over and over in my own head, "I didn't do anything wrong?"  or "What did I do". 

What I would suggest to you, the next time son says something to you which your DIL claims to have hurt her feelings, I'd go right to her, when son is there with you....and explain to her, what I said, was not in the least bit directed at you personally....I was speaking in general, and it really upsets me that you think I'm speaking to you in a way, that would hurt you....I'm not, this is "me" who I am....please don't think those things...there is nothing in the world I want more then for you to understand that....and keep talking to her everytime things happen...be sincere and direct...but talk it out and keep reassuring her.  Sometimes, people are so insecure that they take things people talk about in a group even, personal...

as far as her wanting to be with her parents...I can understand your hurt...and it's not fair and DIL's should realize, how important it is for her family to spend time with her parents.  Yanno, I have a girlfriend, whose DIL's would rather spend time with her then they're own parents...but in your case, that is your DIL's comfort zone...she sounds very insecure...and I bet your son is constantly having to prove to her he loves her in all these situations to reassure her....and sometimes women use this as a crutch...I don't know, you are the only one who knows the answers to a lot of these questions....but I cannot stress enough the importance of talking things out...one on one and face to face...never in a letter or email...b/c words are so taken wrong....

I'm sorry I can't be of more help....really I am....and I'm glad your here to vent and obtain perspectives from others....this is a site of really great ladies....who care....

Love to you and yours...
Creme
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: cremebrulee on June 09, 2010, 04:52:51 AM
QuoteNana
Dear Creme:

As I said everyone has a way of seeing things....it all depends how it went for you.    When I read still's post....at least half of the first paragraph seemed my story....sounded as me.    We (hubby and I never did we visit unless invited, we never called or e-mail them unless it was an emergency.  We never try to tell them how to run their marriage, their kids, their finances, their house.  We only raise our hand when they needed help.  In my case and in many others, it is not that we were used to be the "matron""   or that we fell that our game was over.    We understood the time changes and people does too.  We understood that now they were a family and that we were seconds and it was okay with us.  Never did I think that my grandson was mine.....it was clear to me that I was only the grandmother who loved him with all my heart. 

Hi Nana, thanks for taking the time to respond...one thing that I hope you understand is that we're communicating only ideas here, and speaking from our hearts, our very own experiences...each of us, well simply put, that is all we have to work with...so, all I'm trying to do is throw out ideas from my perspectives and my experiences....I am not in any way directing these things I'm writing to anyone personally...but speaking in general...this can be a very painful, frustrating and hot topic for all involved....everyone's experience is completely different...I simply wanted to share my feelings hoping that maybe in my words somewhere there might be some clarity for someone...and I do sincerely hope you and everyone else understands that...

QuoteYou said that you realize that you have done things wrong.  Good for you because you were humble enough to recognize also your faults....but believe me, in many cases and mine was one, I never did anything wrong.   Expectations?  Well probably I  did something wrong....have high expectations....that was all I can accuse myself of.    I expected to be treated as my son's daughter and my grandson's nanny.

I had many expectations...it was like I was living in my own world, expecting DIL to love me right away, as much as son did...expected her to know me and love me....expected her to be just like son, very much like my own daughter....expected her to immediately know that all my actions, and words were who I was, and not directed at her or any kind of intent to hurt her, I was just being myself...however, she didn't know me, she and I both were insecure...and we both had a whole separate way of doing things and what we believed in....and when we both challenged those beliefs, that's when the trouble started.  I was raised, that when you receive a gift from someone, you call them and thank them...and never forget to do so....I was also raised by my mom, to call people from time to time to let them know, "Hi, I'm thinking for you...wanted to call you and let you know, lets chat".  I was raised that when I have a dinner party for someone, they are the guests, and they do no work, nor do they help me clear the table...they are supposed to sit and relax, and let me weight on them, this is they're night.....and they are special guests for that time....however, DIL was raised differently...she wanted to help and when I said no, she took it as a rejection from me...I never knew that, and visa versa...it doesn't say I'm right or wrong in my feelings about these things that I'm using as examples....and instead of overlooking them, we both took very small things like that as personal attacks....
And then, left go, as women do, we never forget, so that is another notch in the belt, another thing DIL or MIL did that hurt me...and the more things are left go and unspoken the more things build up and are taken wrong until it is almost unrepairable...more hurt sets in, then anger, then we start to take more things personal...do you understand where I'm going with this?

So, expectations of others, especially DIL's and MIL's can be so completely different....and what I'm saying is, I wish now, I would have stepped back...observed unbiased, and got to know my MIL...instead, I went forth and appeared to be very controlling and probably interferring. 

Here is one thing that helped to start all this....DIL invited me to HER home for thanksgiving...my son contacted me and asked me if I'd help her cook the dinner...as this was the first time for her....sure, I said and sent him a grocery list of things we would need.  Now, mind you, he never mentioned this to her....I assumed she was asking him to ask me this.  I'm a good cook, and he's always said I should open a restaurant....and simply figured she wanted my advice.  Well, when I went to visit, I started making the filling/stuffing and saw something was wrong, but never thought I was interferring....so I kept doing things like this with her dinner, opening the oven and checking her turkey...man did that hurt her....unbeknown to both of us, she never wanted me to help, she wanted to do the dinner...I didn't know...and that was the very first time I went to visit...it doesn't matter who was wrong or right here, or that son miscommunicated it, and then didn't want to hurt her feelings...so, he never told her, that he contacted me and asked me to do that...if he had, he'd have gotten in heap of trouble...and I'm laughing now, and it's not important whose fault it was, what is important is, to understand, that it was misperception, assumptions and expectation...and when you think about it now, it was a very small thing, but at the time, it was huge....huge...and hurt her deeply...and I will tell you, if it had been me, I'd have been disjointed big time...so, here is one small example of how things got off kilter....and when we can both sit down and discuss these things, we realize how we misperceived things....that may seem very small to you, but to her, they are huge, or visa versa....

I'm not stating that this is how things are with you....I'm only trying to open windows a little at a time....

When this was going on with my DIL...I went on a DIL site...and a lot of those DIL's lost patience with me, and really hammered me...and it was wrong of them to do, however, I kept insisting I did nothing wrong and every time they tried to give me an explanation for DIL's actions, I became very hurt and upset, and thought they were not seeing my point of views....I wasn't ready to consider that I had done something , not wrong, mind you, but something that upset dil...doesn't really mean I was wrong....however, my actions, or something I said, upset my dil and made her not only hurt, but nervous around me. 

when the lights started coming on, and I was able to consider HER feelings, and believe me, it took me so darn long, it hurts me know to realize, how stubborn I was, and how I didn't have a clue...doesn't say DIL was right, and I was wrong...what I'm saying is, that we both didn't realize, that these personal things that happened were not intended to hurt or directed at each other, however, both of us took it that way.  It was God awful...and could have easily been corrected if both of us would have sat down and talked to each other, but more so, listened to each other.

Of course DIL wants to be with her parents more....I'm not saying it's right and I know how much it hurts...it hurts awful...but, being with her parents more is her comfort zone, it isn't that she is rejecting you personally, it's simply where she wants to be, is it fair, no...heck no...b/c we deserve quality time with our sons...however....dil's don't mean to be sending a message to us, that they don't want to be around us, it's simply that she loves her family and wants to be there with them, instead of with us...it's her comfort zone....and so many of us take that personal....

How do you think I feel when I hear my son calls his stepmother MOM?  Same things....how do you think I felt all those years 12 years, when my son and DIL, and grand daughter chose my ex husband (my son's father) and his wife over me....and stayed there all the time, but would never stay over night at my home, they'd just come for short visits, a few hours and then leave...God that tore me apart...and to boot, I was so excited to see them, and they'd come for a few hours and leave, and I'd sit and cry and cry....the pain of that was awful...and I dislike my son's stepmom a lot, she has done some very hurtful things, said some very hurtful things, unthinkable and unacceptable, and my son knows this, yet makes excuses for her....how do you think I felt?  Who was wrong here....but you know what, I'll take what I can get....what they give me, b/c I love them, very very much...just like you love your kids....

My son chose my DIL to love to cherish forever....she may not think and feel like me, she may forget to say thank you's....she may take my son by the arm and walk ahead of me, when we go out to dinner, and not include me in conversation while walking, but it's not directed at me, that is the way she is....and I won't allow anything she does or says to upset me any more...b/c I thought she was saying to me, "Your not welcome".  I thought when we were having coffee at the restaurant and she stood up and said "READY", and walked out...she was saying to me, I don't want to be here with you, I don't like you, and I thought that was God awful rude...however, it wasn't meant to be like that....she always does that...she can sit only so long and then she's got to go...I was raised that you sit and have coffee and have long conversations over coffee and dessert, that was family time....that was quality time...does it make me right and her wrong, no...it doesn't...it's simply who we are...what may seem rude to me, isn't rude to her...or visa versa...and we've made a pact with each other to tell each other when something like that happens again...to get it out in the open right away...she told me she was sorry and she is going to try to change, and I told her, don't change a thing for me, this is who you are....just be yourself, I'm fine with it, now that I realize, it wasn't directed at me.  I don't' want her to change for me...I want her to be comfortable...around me...

QuoteThank God...things turn out great for me.  But it wasn't because I took all the heat.  They worked out because I spoke my heart out.

I don't view it as taking all the heat...I view it as understanding the other person, is totally different from me...has totally different views, and realize no one can conform to my way of thinking...we have been conditioned from little on up to think, feel and believe certain ways...like our faith, the way we do things....feel about things...what I'm trying to explain here is, just because I feel one way about something and you feel another, doesn't make you right and me wrong...or me right and you wrong, there is no right or wrong answer, it is however, simply how you were raised to do things and believe....I wasn't wrong, she wasn't wrong, we simply perceived our actions towards each other as personal attacks....they weren't....and over time, it built up, and more little things happened, and each time someting else happened we each went, ahhh hah!!!  See, she hates me....she is doing this thing to hurt me, or she is doing this to drive a wedge between my son and me, or my husband and me, and honest ta God we were not....but we perceived it that way....and little things build into huge problems...mole hills became huge gigantic mountains and every thing got so blown out of proportion...and we were both hurting terrible for years....
So, while being open, direct, honest and upfront may work for some, it might work the opposite for others, however, I do so now wish right from the beginning I would have sat down and talked with both of them and listened as well and not taken everything they said as a personal attack.

When I tried talking to my son and explaining situations he became very defensive of her, and when she tried to talk to him about me, he defended me, both her and I took that as an awful disloyalty on his part...I was devastated, b/c I thought he was telling me I was wrong, he wasn't, he was telling me, what I did, that hurt her, and I wouldn't see it...I wouldn't admit, that b/c I refused to eat a breakfast she made for me, that hurt her so deeply for years it festered inside her....and I'm not going to explain the whole breakfast thing...but she was eager to please me, and I can't eat breakfast....and she was so hurt, and understandably so....

QuoteI do get along very well with dil now.  I still respect her wishes and rules but she gives me the place I deserve.   I give her her place too.  I do not expect from her material things, nor do I want her to love as she loves her mom. 

I'm very happy to hear this...I'm sure you understand, it's all about sitting back and understanding her personality...and allowing her without taking things she said, or you said as a personal attack against each other....but to let a lot of things roll off, no one is perfect, we can all be a perfect pain in the butt with the way we do things....and understanding that, is so important...people are people, they are who they are, and we are not going to change them. 

and yes, indeed, no one should expect a DIL or SIL to love them as much as they're own mothers...however, if it happens, that is a plus, if it doesn't it's perfectly understandable.


QuoteBy the way, Creme, remember that when these difficult dil are giving hell to their husband's family, they are completely different with their own family.  So what is different here?

The difference is unfortunate, that her family or his family does not understand all the above, and that is very sad...however, I have sat back and observed people for a long time....and I don't know how or why, but there are some people, who don't have to speak any words...you just simply know, that you don't cross them...meaning, you don't cross boundaries, cuz if you did, that you might not ever be welcomed again...like my girlfriend...there is this special air about them, that you just know you immediately need to behave yourself or you will loose them as a friend...if anyone can tell me the secret to that, I would love to know....because I've always made myself a victim....in the past...not anymore...but I would love to know the secret to that kind of confidence...


QuoteAll that you mentioned about stepping back because they are a new family only applies for the son's family not the dil's family?

Yes, in some cases, it does, where the DIL is very insecure...and needs her parents in her life to feel comfortable...unfortunately we as mother's of son's do loose some of our son's...meaning, the closeness we once had isn't there anymore, and it never will be again....why, b/c he now has a wife, that he discusses things with, she is his confidant, his first and foremost, and that is the way it should be....our job is now over...we take a different role now....our son's have matured, they've grown up, they want to live they're own lives, they want to make they're wives happy, and if she's happy being with her parents more, that is where he is going to go...it isn't meant to hurt, even though it does....it's simply that the husbands usually go where the wives want to be....why, b/c these men want to make they're wives happy....keep peace and harmony in their family....it's the thing to do....is it right, no...someone ends up getting hurt....however....I've had to do this most of my son's life....so I'm used to it....when he was growing up, I refused to put him in the middle of his father and me, playing tug of war with a child, so everytime a holiday came up, I asked her where he wanted to be more....and if he said his father, I smiled and said, then that's where you should be....I want you to be happy....and I meant it...I've seen to many children torn between they're parents and I refused to do it to my son....his happiness comes first...always...and if that means, I don't see him, so be it....he's a man now, and the harder I fight it, the more he's going to stay away...he's not going to come to a place where he feels uncomfortable...I wouldn't.....


QuoteOnly my opinion.

different opinions and perspectives are great tools for discussion and sharing ideas...thank you....
   

QuoteI am very glad that it worked for you.

boy I am to, thank you....

hugs creme
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Pooh on June 09, 2010, 06:55:52 AM
Still, Nana and Pen all share similar stories with me.  And when I was reading Creme's posts, I was thinking in my head, "Oh, well that part doesn't apply to me", "Nope..nope...I don't do that, "That isn't what happens with my DIL."  That is how I started on this forum.  Reading everyone's suggestions, stories and advice and taking in what applied and discarded what didn't. 

Now I have come to realize that just because I don't feel I did anything wrong, doesn't mean I didn't.  I can do everything 100% right but still be having these problems because of how the other person feels.   I am still right there with you Pen, Nana and Still because I have a DIL that has a narcissistic personality.  Doesn't matter what I do or what I say, she is going to take it wrong.  So I came here looking for solutions on how to get her to understand me.  What I have discovered, is that she is not going to change so I should of been looking for solutions on how to understand her.  And if I truly can understand her, maybe...just maybe, I can improve our relationship.  I know it is a two-way street and she has to cross to the centerline as well, but if I can understand her better, maybe she will. 

That is why I love this website.  It allows me the opportunity to see opinions, different angles and other people's perceptions on a situation.  Sometimes the ladies agree with me and give me validation, and sometimes they give me a different perspective to think about.  Doesn't mean I am wrong....it just means there is another way to look at it.  And that is why I appreciate every lady on here.  I want to reach out and hug all the ones that agree with me and I want to throw a spit wad at Creme and others sometimes for making me sit back and say, "Well....well......OK...fine, maybe she has a point."  They are not saying I am wrong, they are saying, "Hey, I had a situation and this worked for me."  Is it going to work for me?  Maybe....maybe not...but I am learning it is not about what I am doing wrong or right, it is about what my DIL perceives I am doing wrong or right.

I lurked around on a DIL sight for a little while, thinking maybe I could gain some perspective from their side and I was totally shocked by something one of them wrote.  And here is something that I thought I was doing totally right and this DIL made me realize that my DIL may be looking at it like she was.   One of the MILs was saying, "I have not done anything to her to deserve this.  I have treated her like a daughter."  The DIL wrote back and said, "Do you realize that might be the problem?  My MIL did the same thing and told everyone that I was like her daughter and all I could think of was great....she thinks of me as a child.  It hurt my feelings because I didn't want to be her child.  I wanted to form an equal relationship with her.  Love me like a daughter, but treat me like an adult."

Wow. I said the same thing to my DIL in the beginning.  Here I thought I was being a loving, caring, supporting MIL letting her know that I would love her just like she was my daughter.  I thought I was honoring her by telling her that.  I thought she would be happy to think I was going to love her that much.  And this is what she could have been hearing?  When I said those words, this could be what she thought?  Was I wrong?  Was she wrong?  Oh wait....that doesn't matter.  What matters is that I may have said something that hurt our relationship without even knowing it.  My "I did this right" just might have turned into a "Uh oh".  What a novel concept.....

Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: cremebrulee on June 09, 2010, 07:56:33 AM
Quote from: Pooh on June 09, 2010, 06:55:52 AM
Still, Nana and Pen all share similar stories with me.  And when I was reading Creme's posts, I was thinking in my head, "Oh, well that part doesn't apply to me", "Nope..nope...I don't do that, "That isn't what happens with my DIL."  That is how I started on this forum.  Reading everyone's suggestions, stories and advice and taking in what applied and discarded what didn't. 

Now I have come to realize that just because I don't feel I did anything wrong, doesn't mean I didn't.  I can do everything 100% right but still be having these problems because of how the other person feels.   I am still right there with you Pen, Nana and Still because I have a DIL that has a narcissistic personality.  Doesn't matter what I do or what I say, she is going to take it wrong.  So I came here looking for solutions on how to get her to understand me.  What I have discovered, is that she is not going to change so I should of been looking for solutions on how to understand her.  And if I truly can understand her, maybe...just maybe, I can improve our relationship.  I know it is a two-way street and she has to cross to the centerline as well, but if I can understand her better, maybe she will. 

That is why I love this website.  It allows me the opportunity to see opinions, different angles and other people's perceptions on a situation.  Sometimes the ladies agree with me and give me validation, and sometimes they give me a different perspective to think about.  Doesn't mean I am wrong....it just means there is another way to look at it.  And that is why I appreciate every lady on here.  I want to reach out and hug all the ones that agree with me and I want to throw a spit wad at Creme and others sometimes for making me sit back and say, "Well....well......OK...fine, maybe she has a point."  They are not saying I am wrong, they are saying, "Hey, I had a situation and this worked for me."  Is it going to work for me?  Maybe....maybe not...but I am learning it is not about what I am doing wrong or right, it is about what my DIL perceives I am doing wrong or right.

I lurked around on a DIL sight for a little while, thinking maybe I could gain some perspective from their side and I was totally shocked by something one of them wrote.  And here is something that I thought I was doing totally right and this DIL made me realize that my DIL may be looking at it like she was.   One of the MILs was saying, "I have not done anything to her to deserve this.  I have treated her like a daughter."  The DIL wrote back and said, "Do you realize that might be the problem?  My MIL did the same thing and told everyone that I was like her daughter and all I could think of was great....she thinks of me as a child.  It hurt my feelings because I didn't want to be her child.  I wanted to form an equal relationship with her.  Love me like a daughter, but treat me like an adult."

Wow. I said the same thing to my DIL in the beginning.  Here I thought I was being a loving, caring, supporting MIL letting her know that I would love her just like she was my daughter.  I thought I was honoring her by telling her that.  I thought she would be happy to think I was going to love her that much.  And this is what she could have been hearing?  When I said those words, this could be what she thought?  Was I wrong?  Was she wrong?  Oh wait....that doesn't matter.  What matters is that I may have said something that hurt our relationship without even knowing it.  My "I did this right" just might have turned into a "Uh oh".  What a novel concept.....

Pooh, thanks so much for understanding....and your absolutely right...but I have to say, what DIL's do not understand is, we're not treating them like a child, accepting them and wanting them to be like a daughter to us, is the highest honor any mother in law could bestow on a DIL....to be accepted like that...so unconditionally, which is what we all did....why, b/c our son's loved them....and, if they love our son's...they they should also understand, that maybe the clash is b/c there are some parts of you that are like MIL....they say that usually a son will marry a woman who reminds him of his mother....and yanno, my son used to tell me that my DIL were so much alike in a lot of ways...and I'd say, no we're not...but we are....we really are....and in a lot of ways we are so not alike, so opposite...

I can't tell you how excited I am that you get what I'm trying to say....thank you....
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: luise.volta on June 09, 2010, 08:46:09 AM
We all got it, Creme, and were touched to the core. Sending love...
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Pen on June 09, 2010, 09:51:27 AM
Wow, lots to think about here. In my case I never said anything to DIL about being my daughter; her family is very important to her and I knew she/they would take offense. Our DIL says she just doesn't like who we are, although I sometimes believe even that's an excuse. I think she just figured she'd cut us off after the wedding.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: stilltryen on June 09, 2010, 11:34:59 AM
As I've probably spent all of, maybe (being generous here) 15 hours around my DIL the last year & a half, I would be hard pressed to think of anything I've done (other than talk and have her take everything wrong) to offend her.  In the two times we've been to their house for dinner, I always ask if she needs help, she always says no.  I tell her the house looks nice, I ask her about her hobbies, I even take her a bag of books that I've read and tell her to read what she wants and send them back when she's done.  (Which she has, so no issues there.)  I absolutely cannot go back to her and ask her about why she was offended when I said something, because then she would know that my son mentioned it to me and she would be angry at him.  I have mentioned, in a round about way, that I say things that shouldn't be taken as a command, like the "You should read this book . . . " but I realize that she's simply picking on things.  I know she knows deep down that I could care less, but she wants to find fault, so she will.  In response I always tell my son that I love them both, she's the daughter I never had and regardless of how rude and obnoxious she is, I will always love her with all my heart.  Right now I'm lying through my teeth, as I have a very difficult time getting along with someone who picks apart every sentence I utter and whines and complains about everything.  (It's not just me, she hates their house, she hates her job, blah, blah, blah.)  I have yet to see the woman express pure joy over anything.   However, it totally disarms my son, who listens to his wife complain, then when he comes to me, I explain patiently that no, because I noted the dog had dripped some water on the floor and I said, "Oh, there's a spot of water on the floor, I'll wipe it up." that was not "code" for "your house is dirty" and doesn't she understand that I love her, blah, blah.  He knows now, he's starting to tell her, "No, Mom just meant there was a spot on the floor" and tells her that all I ever say about her is how much I love her.  Sometimes you fight fire with fire.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: cremebrulee on June 09, 2010, 11:36:50 AM
Quote from: penstamen on June 09, 2010, 09:51:27 AM
Wow, lots to think about here. In my case I never said anything to DIL about being my daughter; her family is very important to her and I knew she/they would take offense. Our DIL says she just doesn't like who we are, although I sometimes believe even that's an excuse. I think she just figured she'd cut us off after the wedding.

Pen, I bet a lot of times....DIL's like yours from your descriptions...well, I bet she's angry a lot of times and doesn't know why, she's just angry...making a comment like that is very cruel and unthinking....and I'm very sorry....
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: cremebrulee on June 09, 2010, 11:52:35 AM
Quote from: stilltryen on June 09, 2010, 11:34:59 AM
As I've probably spent all of, maybe (being generous here) 15 hours around my DIL the last year & a half, I would be hard pressed to think of anything I've done (other than talk and have her take everything wrong) to offend her.  In the two times we've been to their house for dinner, I always ask if she needs help, she always says no.  I tell her the house looks nice, I ask her about her hobbies, I even take her a bag of books that I've read and tell her to read what she wants and send them back when she's done.  (Which she has, so no issues there.)  I absolutely cannot go back to her and ask her about why she was offended when I said something, because then she would know that my son mentioned it to me and she would be angry at him.  I have mentioned, in a round about way, that I say things that shouldn't be taken as a command, like the "You should read this book . . . " but I realize that she's simply picking on things.  I know she knows deep down that I could care less, but she wants to find fault, so she will.  In response I always tell my son that I love them both, she's the daughter I never had and regardless of how rude and obnoxious she is, I will always love her with all my heart.  Right now I'm lying through my teeth, as I have a very difficult time getting along with someone who picks apart every sentence I utter and whines and complains about everything.  (It's not just me, she hates their house, she hates her job, blah, blah, blah.)  I have yet to see the woman express pure joy over anything.   However, it totally disarms my son, who listens to his wife complain, then when he comes to me, I explain patiently that no, because I noted the dog had dripped some water on the floor and I said, "Oh, there's a spot of water on the floor, I'll wipe it up." that was not "code" for "your house is dirty" and doesn't she understand that I love her, blah, blah.  He knows now, he's starting to tell her, "No, Mom just meant there was a spot on the floor" and tells her that all I ever say about her is how much I love her.  Sometimes you fight fire with fire.

its the same with your DIL, she sounds so negative, and thinks it's perfectly normal to be that way...she sounds very insecure and self serving....she cannot see past her own nose....and is so loosing out on life, because of it....
she was probably raised like that..her mother or father must be like that, b/c this sort of behavior is learned....as we all parot our parents....but to take everything as an insult, is to her discredit not yours, and it's not about you personally....no matter who she would have married, it would be the same way...she is probably very envious of you, probably wants to be just like you and doesn't know how....and again, sounds like she's angry a lot of times and doesn't know why...the fact that your son is vocalizing & not defending her actions....speaks volumns....however, I would still suggest to try and understand her, where she came from and you'll understand the why's and not take things personal....it helps....
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Pen on June 09, 2010, 12:36:21 PM
Thanks, Creme - I appreciate your efforts in trying to keep my mind open regarding my DIL. You're so hopeful and loviing.

DIL's not angry so much as ambitious and very conscious of status and appearances. She's mean around us sometimes because we're not like her and her family, although I think she'd come up with another reason to avoid us if we were. She wants DS all to herself to control and manipulate, and unfortunately for her he's not buying in completely (yet.) When they decide to procreate it may get worse, so I'm gearing up for that.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: stilltryen on June 09, 2010, 12:37:10 PM
Oh creme, I know where she comes from - money.  She's the spoiled rotten only child of two very highly educated driven parents.  She decided, in grade school, that she loved my son and was going to marry him.  It took longer than she thought, but years later . . .    I've known her mom since pta days, her parents are very nice, but there's an edge there.  If you cross it, you know it.  Her mom will cut you off at the knees.  During the wedding process they told me I could invite 50 people.  When two couples couldn't make it, I asked if I could invite two other couples in their place.  (We have a huge family and lots of friends.)  Her mom said no.  I couldn't figure that one out, since it wasn't going over my 50 limit, but she was absolutely brutal about it.  We couldn't invite children, but, of course, one of the mom's brother brought his 10 year old daughter.  However, they are very gracious to my son, they buy him very (expensive) nice gifts for his birthday, etc., so I really don't have issues with them.  You'd think DIL would be very secure in her life (car at 16, private college, a summer in Europe, a year as an intern in New York, her parents plunked down $50,000 for her first condo, etc.), but somewhere, somehow, she can't seem to be happy.  There are some days that the sun is shining and I'm so grateful that I've lived to see another beautiful day - and I wish she could somehow find the beauty in a butterfly or a flower, but maybe in time.  It's a good thing that when I've been around her, it's been with my son.  So he hears what I tell her, he knows what I mean and he's able to tell her to calm down and be rational about it.  Like the book thing too.  He told her, "Seriously, you honestly think my mom cares whether you read that book or not?  What do you think she's going to do, quiz you?  You need to quit projecting."  I think she wants to drive a wedge so that he only has stuff to do with her family and my son has made it very clear to her that's not going to happen.  I think, in time, that she'll figure out that I honestly, truly only want them to be happy and to realize we're all family now.  In the meantime, I continue to have an open dialogue with him, other than right now I'm kind of fudging when I tell him that I love her to pieces.  I have hope I may yet - down the road!
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: cremebrulee on June 10, 2010, 03:29:56 AM
Quote from: luise.volta on June 09, 2010, 08:46:09 AM
We all got it, Creme, and were touched to the core. Sending love...

I'm so glad you did...sometimes, I cannot put things as clearly as I'd like....what some people can say in very few words, takes me forever to say?????  Ugh....so I'm glad, it makes me happy...sending back love to you all as well....hope things are going smoothly for you withing the transition that has been forced upon you all...

Love
Creme
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: cremebrulee on June 10, 2010, 03:35:05 AM
Quote from: stilltryen on June 09, 2010, 12:37:10 PM
Oh creme, I know where she comes from - money.  She's the spoiled rotten only child of two very highly educated driven parents.  She decided, in grade school, that she loved my son and was going to marry him.  It took longer than she thought, but years later . . .    I've known her mom since pta days, her parents are very nice, but there's an edge there.  If you cross it, you know it.  Her mom will cut you off at the knees.  During the wedding process they told me I could invite 50 people.  When two couples couldn't make it, I asked if I could invite two other couples in their place.  (We have a huge family and lots of friends.)  Her mom said no.  I couldn't figure that one out, since it wasn't going over my 50 limit, but she was absolutely brutal about it.  We couldn't invite children, but, of course, one of the mom's brother brought his 10 year old daughter.  However, they are very gracious to my son, they buy him very (expensive) nice gifts for his birthday, etc., so I really don't have issues with them.  You'd think DIL would be very secure in her life (car at 16, private college, a summer in Europe, a year as an intern in New York, her parents plunked down $50,000 for her first condo, etc.), but somewhere, somehow, she can't seem to be happy.  There are some days that the sun is shining and I'm so grateful that I've lived to see another beautiful day - and I wish she could somehow find the beauty in a butterfly or a flower, but maybe in time.  It's a good thing that when I've been around her, it's been with my son.  So he hears what I tell her, he knows what I mean and he's able to tell her to calm down and be rational about it.  Like the book thing too.  He told her, "Seriously, you honestly think my mom cares whether you read that book or not?  What do you think she's going to do, quiz you?  You need to quit projecting."  I think she wants to drive a wedge so that he only has stuff to do with her family and my son has made it very clear to her that's not going to happen.  I think, in time, that she'll figure out that I honestly, truly only want them to be happy and to realize we're all family now.  In the meantime, I continue to have an open dialogue with him, other than right now I'm kind of fudging when I tell him that I love her to pieces.  I have hope I may yet - down the road!

Maybe when she has children of her own she will change in a few years...yanno, children bring a whole new set of perspectives....hopefully she will...and I'm glad your son is speaking up to her and not allowing her to get away with this stuff...that is good....and it shows her, she can't cross over to the delusional aspect of driving that wedge between you...he sounds very aware....
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: luise.volta on June 10, 2010, 06:23:34 AM
Kudos for the son who stands tall! That never occurred to my eldest son, he just caved.

And looking at the rich, spoiled DIL makes me think of what too much of anything brings. The pendulum swings too far out, say from neglect to entitlement, and we see serious damage. Sending love...
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: luise.volta on June 10, 2010, 06:32:58 AM
And speaking of needing to use a lot of words, Creme, I had to make an acceptance speech last Fall for an award from Bank of America and my talk was limited to three minutes. Three minutes to tell how I got onto the Web, created my two interactive sites and got to the place where there are over 20,000 online reference to me when someone does a "Luise Volta" Google search.

I wrote what I thought was a bare-bones speech and it was TEN MINUTES long!  ;D ;D ;D It took me what seemed like forever to distill it down!!
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: cremebrulee on June 10, 2010, 06:44:26 AM
Luise

LOL....

I always marvel at those who are able to say so much with very few words....
amazing!
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Pooh on June 10, 2010, 06:51:04 AM
I am with you Creme.  I seem to have to write books to say what I want to say, then Luise comes along with a one-liner and "ZING" she sums it all up!  I shall call her my squishy and try to be more like her.  (Dang, already messed up because this turned out to be four sentences dang it!)
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: luise.volta on June 10, 2010, 07:06:22 AM
You guys are so funny. If you really want to learn how to do that...write it in your word program first and then see what your point is and process it down to the core. (Probably more bother than it's worth.  :o

I love your prose  and we aren't being charged by the word here.   ;D
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Pooh on June 10, 2010, 07:31:30 AM
Good thing or I would have to skip lunch all week.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: luise.volta on June 10, 2010, 07:37:00 AM
 ;D 8) :o ;D
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: MLW07 on June 10, 2010, 08:46:51 AM
Quote from: stilltryen on June 09, 2010, 11:34:59 AM
As I've probably spent all of, maybe (being generous here) 15 hours around my DIL the last year & a half, I would be hard pressed to think of anything I've done (other than talk and have her take everything wrong) to offend her.  In the two times we've been to their house for dinner, I always ask if she needs help, she always says no.  I tell her the house looks nice, I ask her about her hobbies, I even take her a bag of books that I've read and tell her to read what she wants and send them back when she's done.  (Which she has, so no issues there.)  I absolutely cannot go back to her and ask her about why she was offended when I said something, because then she would know that my son mentioned it to me and she would be angry at him.  I have mentioned, in a round about way, that I say things that shouldn't be taken as a command, like the "You should read this book . . . " but I realize that she's simply picking on things.  I know she knows deep down that I could care less, but she wants to find fault, so she will.  In response I always tell my son that I love them both, she's the daughter I never had and regardless of how rude and obnoxious she is, I will always love her with all my heart.  Right now I'm lying through my teeth, as I have a very difficult time getting along with someone who picks apart every sentence I utter and whines and complains about everything.  (It's not just me, she hates their house, she hates her job, blah, blah, blah.)  I have yet to see the woman express pure joy over anything.   However, it totally disarms my son, who listens to his wife complain, then when he comes to me, I explain patiently that no, because I noted the dog had dripped some water on the floor and I said, "Oh, there's a spot of water on the floor, I'll wipe it up." that was not "code" for "your house is dirty" and doesn't she understand that I love her, blah, blah.  He knows now, he's starting to tell her, "No, Mom just meant there was a spot on the floor" and tells her that all I ever say about her is how much I love her.  Sometimes you fight fire with fire.


I have a feeling yoru DIL can sense/feel the bitterness and hate you have for her.  Do not lie to your son and tell him you love her when you don't.  That puts him in the middle.  Totally detach and do not discuss the upcoming pregnancy; this will make it easier for you.  Also, as far as the wedding goes if her paretns were paying for the wedding then it is their perogative to dictate what goes.  Sorry if this offends anyone...
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Pen on June 10, 2010, 09:07:44 AM
So if DS marries a woman whose family is wealthier than ours and they decide to throw a big, expensive, ostentatious affair, and we do all we can to pay the designated groom's expenses but we aren't paying for the actual wedding, we don't get to invite anyone?

That's what happened to us. We had no input on the plans but had to go along with their expectations even though they knew we weren't in their bracket financially. We were allowed 10 invitations out of 150. We paid for the minister, the rehearsal dinner & the honeymoon, as well as all the matching suits and dresses we needed as participants.

Many say money shouldn't matter, that there should be no financial contest between ILs, but there is. Money means power, even if it's ill-gotten. Hard work and honesty mean nothing in these situations.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: MLW07 on June 10, 2010, 09:23:08 AM
Quote from: penstamen on June 10, 2010, 09:07:44 AM
So if DS marries a woman whose family is wealthier than ours and they decide to throw a big, expensive, ostentatious affair, and we do all we can to pay the designated groom's expenses but we aren't paying for the actual wedding, we don't get to invite anyone?

That's what happened to us. We had no input on the plans but had to go along with their expectations even though they knew we weren't in their bracket financially. We were allowed 10 invitations out of 150. We paid for the minister, the rehearsal dinner & the honeymoon, as well as all the matching suits and dresses we needed as participants.

Many say money shouldn't matter, that there should be no financial contest between ILs, but there is. Money means power, even if it's ill-gotten. Hard work and honesty mean nothing in these situations.

No it should be equal; however, if 5 people decline that doesn't mean you get to invite 5 more.  Adding that five more mean more expense (invitations, postage and suhc); you run the risk when you invite people that not all can come.

As far as the wealthy or rich comment goes; how rich are her parents.  What is rich to you and me might be different to person X.  It is all about perceptions.  MY DH's family thought I was rich just because my dad is a dentist.  This couldn't be further from the truth as DH's parents actually make more money than my paretns do.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Pooh on June 10, 2010, 09:26:22 AM
Not offended, but can't agree with you.  Hard to totally detach from the pregnancy when you know that is your gc.  You want to know they (both DIL and baby) are healthy and everything is progressing well. 

And I think I remember stilltryen contributing to the wedding financially, but even if you can't, I don't think that gives the FILs the right to totally "dictate" what it going on.  I agree that the major decisions should be theirs (music, caterer, venue, etc.) but they should still attempt to make the son's family feel included.  And when I say included, it doesn't have to be in major decisions, but just "Hey, this is what we decided to do about this."

I think that works both ways.  In my case, they wanted to have the wedding at my parent's home.  It is a beautiful place in the country.  So we worked really hard to make sure everything was ready at the house.  My FDIL and her mother came by anytime they wanted and had the run of the house to work out details.  But when they would arrive, they would walk around and ignore my mother as they went through her home. On the day of the wedding, her family basically kicked out my parents and took over the entire house.  My parents didn't even have a bedroom to get ready in because they let all their family get ready there (and we are talking a 5 bedroom home).  My mother would not have cared, if they had included us in what they were doing. She would have made earlier arrangements to get ready.  And they were "dictating" to us all day.  "Get me this...we have to have this.....we need something to eat."  It was extremely disrespectful on their part to all of us. 

I did the entire rehearsal dinner for my son's wedding, but I still asked FDIL what she would like and did she have any preferences.  And before buying my dress, I checked with her to make sure her mother had first choice of colors and if what I was thinking of getting would be OK with her.  If I had said, "I'm paying for it so it will be what I want" that would have been so wrong of me.  Her family never included us in any planning, and we had no clue what was occurring until each event happened.   We included them in everything we did because it was courteous.

Financial responsibility does not give you the right to be rude and ignore the son's family.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: luise.volta on June 10, 2010, 09:41:17 AM
Sometimes the bottom line is that we are all different regarding our beliefs and values and can't expect others to follow suite.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: stilltryen on June 11, 2010, 06:18:08 PM
MLWO7, just FYI regarding your response.  You noted that, "No it should be equal; however, if 5 people decline that doesn't mean you get to invite 5 more.  Adding that five more mean more expense (invitations, postage and suhc); you run the risk when you invite people that not all can come."  First of all, they had plenty of extra invitations.  A whole box of them, in fact - they had about 65 left.  Thus that wasn't extra expense.  I told them I would pay for the postage.  As far as the reception, since the contract was for dinner for XX people, and they had already counted my 50, again, there would have been no extra expense.  I was always willing to foot any extra expense I was responsible for. 

While we didn't pay the lion's share of the wedding, we did pitch in $15,000 (and also paid for the rehearsal dinner, which was $5,000).  Other than the rehearsal dinner, which we had total control over (but did choose a venue convenient for the bridal party), we had absolutely NO INPUT into that wedding.  We didn't decide the venue, the flowers, nothing.  Frankly, that was fine.  Her family has excellent taste and I'm not complaining one bit about where they had the wedding, the reception, etc.  However, there were plenty of things we were not happy about (like when we were told no children, but they had them), some I was really angry about (their photographer took one photo of the groom's family).  Everything else was the bride, her family and guests at the wedding, etc.  I was surprised to find DS, the groom, in the photos.  Later we realized that if the photographer (he was the "family" photographer and had been taking family photos for them for years) had been more professional, he would have asked both sets of parents in beforehand, sat us down at a meeting and asked both sides what photos we really wanted to have.  Then he would have taken the list and made sure to get what we both expected.  (I assume he got all the photos they wanted.)  On the negative side for the photographer, he got very little $ from us.  There were precious few photos I was interested in.

Pooh had the right attitude, they absolustely should have made us feel included.  We honestly thought her family did a wonderful job, but it would have been nice had they been a little more gracious towards us.  Everything was beautiful and it was a great wedding, but I wish we hadn't been made to feel like mere guests at our son's wedding.  It certainly wasn't like we didn't help at all, money wise. 
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: RedRose on June 11, 2010, 07:09:15 PM
Quote from: donewithdrama on June 05, 2010, 07:29:43 PM
justdontunderstand,

There has to be something you are either missing or not admitting to yourself and us. My MIL created a power struggle once DH and I got engaged and she felt like she was losing her power over him. You need to think very hard about whether you are making trouble where there is none before you ruin the possibility of a good loving relationship with your son and dil. Sons are SUPPOSED to get married and focus on being husbands and building a life with their wives.

Are sons also Supposed to ignore their parents and family because they now have a wife?

He can't have both?

If they live 1000 miles from each other how meddlesome can someone be?

Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: justdontunderstand on June 11, 2010, 07:48:08 PM

We have wanted very  much to have a healthy relationship with our DIL. We have tried from the very beginning to welcome her into our family. We just get very little in return. I personally, have examined my behavior to see if there are times when I crossed some boundary that could be described as interference in their courtship or marriage. I know of two such instances that I inadvertently stumbled into that path. I apologized both times and tried to make amends. I am not perfect but I generally can figure out when I am in the wrong. But my DIL has so many unspoken rules that it is hard not to offend at times.

This is my first DIL and I am trying to learn. My son is a mature man and I have not had "power" over him at any time in his life because our family did not operate that way. From what I understand, my DIL's family had a very dictatorial father who was a "my way or the highway" kind of person. It makes me wonder if because my DIL possibly had an unhappy family life that she rejected our family before we could establish that not all families operate the same way. I can only guess....part of the problem is that I don't know  her very well. What I do know is that I have tried very hard, my best in fact to be warm and welcoming and it has not worked so far. I am here because I want to learn from all of you and see if I am missing something that I haven't tried. I appreciate everyone's comments very much.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: luise.volta on June 11, 2010, 07:48:58 PM
You paid $20,000. toward the wedding and it wasn't the lion's share? OMG!
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: stilltryen on June 11, 2010, 08:30:26 PM
Quote from: luise.volta on June 11, 2010, 07:48:58 PM
You paid $20,000. toward the wedding and it wasn't the lion's share? OMG!

Yeah, as I said, she comes from money.  The reception was a full-blown buffet dinner that included king crab, salmon, filet mignon - at one of the most expensive restaurants in the city.  Open bar, which cost a pretty penny.  Her dress cost about $5,000, she picked it up in Europe somewhere.  Oh, and the champagne glasses were specifically made in Murano, Italy for them.  I understand they paid the photographer about $10,000, etc., etc.  We told them this is what we can contribute, period.  And that's what we did.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Pen on June 11, 2010, 09:26:23 PM
Quote from: MLW07 on June 10, 2010, 09:23:08 AM
Quote from: penstamen on June 10, 2010, 09:07:44 AM
So if DS marries a woman whose family is wealthier than ours and they decide to throw a big, expensive, ostentatious affair, and we do all we can to pay the designated groom's expenses but we aren't paying for the actual wedding, we don't get to invite anyone?

That's what happened to us. We had no input on the plans but had to go along with their expectations even though they knew we weren't in their bracket financially. We were allowed 10 invitations out of 150. We paid for the minister, the rehearsal dinner & the honeymoon, as well as all the matching suits and dresses we needed as participants.

Many say money shouldn't matter, that there should be no financial contest between ILs, but there is. Money means power, even if it's ill-gotten. Hard work and honesty mean nothing in these situations.

No it should be equal; however, if 5 people decline that doesn't mean you get to invite 5 more.  Adding that five more mean more expense (invitations, postage and suhc); you run the risk when you invite people that not all can come.

As far as the wealthy or rich comment goes; how rich are her parents.  What is rich to you and me might be different to person X.  It is all about perceptions.  MY DH's family thought I was rich just because my dad is a dentist.  This couldn't be further from the truth as DH's parents actually make more money than my paretns do.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear in my post, MLW. I didn't say they were rich, I said DIL's family was "wealthier than ours," which I know for a fact to be true. I'm assuming they had the money to pay for the wedding DIL planned, which was far and away more than we could have or would have been able to put together. It's not a matter of perception; it doesn't matter what their incomes are. The point is that they chose to throw a big bash and got snippy when we couldn't keep up. If they wanted us to pay for a larger share, they shouldn't have thrown such an elaborate affair. DS didn't care one way or the other, it was DIL & her parents choice. But I'm going to quit whining now because I'm ever so grateful we didn't have to cough up twenty grand!
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: stilltryen on June 11, 2010, 11:28:07 PM
$20K Penstamen and remember, we had no say.  And we got out easy money-wise.  We told them that this was all we could pitch in, if this wasn't enough for the wedding DIL wanted, then she had to ratchet back.  Her folks said, "No, we want a bigger wedding, but don't worry about it.  You give what you're willing to pitch in, we'll pay for everything else.  She's our only daughter and we can afford it."  To their (her parents) favor, they were very nice about it.  They anted up the major bucks and again, it was one heck of a bash.  We gave them what we said we would, but DIL said that since her folks were really "paying for the wedding," we weren't allowed to make any suggestions or give our two cents about anything.  So we didn't.  Evidently the $15k we provided wasn't paying for much.  (The other $5,000 was the rehearsal dinner, remember.)  While there were some glitches leading up to the wedding, I gave DIL the benefit of the doubt, thinking the wedding plans were getting to her, etc. and we made it through.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: daisy on June 12, 2010, 01:03:49 PM
Quote from: stilltryen on June 11, 2010, 06:18:08 PM
I was really angry about (their photographer took one photo of the groom's family).  Everything else was the bride, her family and guests at the wedding, etc.  I was surprised to find DS, the groom, in the photos.  Later we realized that if the photographer (he was the "family" photographer and had been taking family photos for them for years) had been more professional, he would have asked both sets of parents in beforehand, sat us down at a meeting and asked both sides what photos we really wanted to have.  Then he would have taken the list and made sure to get what we both expected.  (I assume he got all the photos they wanted.)  On the negative side for the photographer, he got very little $ from us.  There were precious few photos I was interested in.



I normally lurk here, but I had to chime in on this point.  I am a photographer.  I know of no professional wedding photographers that would request a meeting with the bride, groom and the parents.   Normally the photographer arranges the entire thing with one person (nine times out of ten it is with the bride). The photographer usually has a standard routine they run through (bride and groom in front of the alter, bride and groom and their parents, bride and groom with only the brides parents, then with the grooms parents, the entire wedding party, just the bride with her bridesmaids, and so on, you get the idea)  and ask the couple if there is anything special they want.  The usual answer is, "Um...I don't know. I don't think so."   But sometimes they do have some pretty good ideas. For the photographer, time is money and s/he doesn't have time for several different meetings to explore what others, who are not the bride and groom, and for all he knows aren't paying her/his bill, might possibly want.   

I'm not saying that he shouldn't have taken more shots of your family, but if you had asked for more at the wedding he probably would have obliged. He does want to make money, after all, and giving people the shots they want is his business.  It could have been something your DIL left up to your son, for all we know. I know how my husband is and if asked, he would say, "We already got one of my family. How many do we need?"  Men can be so clueless. LOL

Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: DDM on June 12, 2010, 01:45:58 PM
daisy, I think you are right. The pictures from my son's wedding were pretty much as you describe. The photographer went to the brides home pre-wedding and took tons of posed portrait type shots of the bride (of course), all her bridesmaids, mom, dad etc. They were stunning! Other than whisking the bride and groom away before the reception (again, great shots) the rest of the pics were random shots of the ceremony and reception. He tried to get most of the immediate family members but nothing posed or staged. I know if we had asked, the photographer would have gladly taken anything we wanted but with so much going on, where there was a picture of all my sons together etc. was not on my mind. Besides weddings are suppose to be ALL ABOUT THE BRIDE, LOL!
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: stilltryen on June 12, 2010, 06:03:05 PM
Daisy, I must admit that I have absolutely no knowledge of how photographers work, but based my answer on what I know of photographers in this area and what they've told me (way, way after the wedding).  I happened to be at an event one night and one of the guests was a photographer.  He was the one who told me that he tries to have a meeting (note, a meeting - not several, as you mentioned, one is certainly enough) with the bride, the groom and both sets of parents to get an idea of what kind of photos they're looking for.  If they're absolutely adamant about a certain photo, say they're shooting at a specific location that has a waterfall and they (parents or bride & groom) want a family photo with the waterfall in the background, he said he would make a list and refer to that.  He noted that in the excitement and buzz of a wedding, it's easy to overlook something that someone specifically wanted, hence the list.  Also, as the parents of the groom, and being caught up with so much at the wedding, it's hard to think about what photos you want or don't.  I also was too busy to notice that the photographer was only focusing on her family.  To be fair, I certainly might have been able to ask him to take some specific photos, but every time I turned around, I was meeting guests and totally busy and tied up.  I honestly didn't have a minute to stop and think, "Hey!  Wait a minute, how come he's not grabbing us for a photo?"

BTW, I had a couple of other people note "the meeting" as well.  A friend of mine's daughter got married and her photographer had a sit-down meeting at her shop with my friend and her husband, her daughter, the groom and the groom's parents.  Perhaps photographers do things differently in different regions?  I don't know, but I have heard about this from several people here. 

I completely understand that the bride's family was picking up the bulk of the cost for the photographer.  I still think, that of the 500+ photos the guy took, he could have remembered the groom's side a bit more.  From a business viewpoint, it's dumb.  Do you think I would ever, ever recommend this photographer to anyone?  Not on your life.  I am not suggesting that the photographer shouldn't have focused on the bride (although there would be no bride if there were no groom), I simply don't think it's rational from a business viewpoint to focus on the bride 99% of the time at a wedding.  I've seen tons of photos from other weddings and they show the bridegroom getting dressed, talking with the ushers, chatting with his father, dancing with his mother, a shot of the groom waiting at the altar, etc., etc.  Even DIL and her parents were appalled at the absence of so many "groom" shots.  And again, it's not like we simply showed up for the wedding without having put in our monetary contribution towards the shindig. 
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Postscript on June 12, 2010, 07:11:36 PM
My wedding photographer only ever met with dh and myself, she initially met with us both, then she scouted locations for the wedding party shots and took me to view the best of what she'd found. 

We ended up in a private garden owned by a lovely elderly man who was (I kid you not) ironing his Y fronts when we showed up! He had a swimming pool with a waterfall and kindly gave us permission to take our photos for free.  It was great because although my parents paid for the wedding, we paid for the photographer, my dress etc.  On the day photos were taken pretty much in the order DDM says and with the wedding party shots, she got creative, we had fun shots in sunglasses, the boys holding the bouquets and some really nice shots including what I call the Harlequin romance shot of dh and I kissing in front of the waterfall.

From all the weddings I've been to and the wedding albums I have seen, this seems standard operating procedure.

Stilltryin I sense that this whole relationship got off on the wrong foot from the rehearsal dinner onwards and a certain amount of anger is still lingering and affecting your current relationship.

Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Pen on June 12, 2010, 07:59:29 PM
I'm not sure if the wedding antics are the cause or the effect of a strained relationship between ILs/DILs/DSs/FsOO etc. Each case is unique, more than likely.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: daisy on June 13, 2010, 07:31:44 AM
Quote from: stilltryen on June 12, 2010, 06:03:05 PM
Daisy, I must admit that I have absolutely no knowledge of how photographers work, but based my answer on what I know of photographers in this area and what they've told me (way, way after the wedding).  I happened to be at an event one night and one of the guests was a photographer.  He was the one who told me that he tries to have a meeting (note, a meeting - not several, as you mentioned, one is certainly enough) with the bride, the groom and both sets of parents to get an idea of what kind of photos they're looking for.  If they're absolutely adamant about a certain photo, say they're shooting at a specific location that has a waterfall and they (parents or bride & groom) want a family photo with the waterfall in the background, he said he would make a list and refer to that.  He noted that in the excitement and buzz of a wedding, it's easy to overlook something that someone specifically wanted, hence the list.  Also, as the parents of the groom, and being caught up with so much at the wedding, it's hard to think about what photos you want or don't.  I also was too busy to notice that the photographer was only focusing on her family.  To be fair, I certainly might have been able to ask him to take some specific photos, but every time I turned around, I was meeting guests and totally busy and tied up.  I honestly didn't have a minute to stop and think, "Hey!  Wait a minute, how come he's not grabbing us for a photo?"

BTW, I had a couple of other people note "the meeting" as well.  A friend of mine's daughter got married and her photographer had a sit-down meeting at her shop with my friend and her husband, her daughter, the groom and the groom's parents.  Perhaps photographers do things differently in different regions?  I don't know, but I have heard about this from several people here. 

I completely understand that the bride's family was picking up the bulk of the cost for the photographer.  I still think, that of the 500+ photos the guy took, he could have remembered the groom's side a bit more.  From a business viewpoint, it's dumb.  Do you think I would ever, ever recommend this photographer to anyone?  Not on your life.  I am not suggesting that the photographer shouldn't have focused on the bride (although there would be no bride if there were no groom), I simply don't think it's rational from a business viewpoint to focus on the bride 99% of the time at a wedding.  I've seen tons of photos from other weddings and they show the bridegroom getting dressed, talking with the ushers, chatting with his father, dancing with his mother, a shot of the groom waiting at the altar, etc., etc.  Even DIL and her parents were appalled at the absence of so many "groom" shots.  And again, it's not like we simply showed up for the wedding without having put in our monetary contribution towards the shindig.

The only time something like that would happen is if the bride and groom show up with their parents or if they parents are the ones footing the bill. I am a professional photographer in the Chicago area and am quite familiar with other photographers in the area.

The trend in wedding photographer is more towards photojournalism-type candids. If the bride and groom didn't do their homework and look at the photographers portfolio or tell him, "We want pictures of us getting ready, chatting with the ushers and groomsmen, etc." it's not his problem. He is a photographer, not a psychic.  Like I said, if you wanted to make sure your family was included in more pictures, if you had said something to him beforehand or during, he would have obliged. I know weddings are busy, but especially if these were posed portraits, you must have realized, "Hey- it's been a while since any of us have been in a shot"?

For anyone looking for a photographer, look at his or her portfolio very carefully and ask a lot of questions. If you have examples of shots you like, take them with your or forward them to the photographer so you can get what you want. A lot of people will go with a family friend or a relative with a nice camera who has never shot a wedding before, but works either free or cheap and then will complain about their pictures.  It's not easy and there is a reason that good wedding photographers can charge what they do. It's also the reason a lot people (like me) don't shoot weddings. It's a huge responsibility. And like you said, you were dissatisfied with the shots, so you will either not recommend him or tell people not to hire him. He could have been horrible, or it could have been a very huge miscommunication.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: stilltryen on June 13, 2010, 03:13:07 PM
Daisy, we're nowhere near Chicago.  Again, it could be different regions have different styles.  I've been told by photographers here that they try to have a sit down meeting with the bride and groom and both sets of parents to iron out what kind of shots they'd like, etc.  As you're speaking from your experience, I'm speaking from mine.

You're correct that I should have said something; but that doesn't excuse the lack of professionalism (front my point of view) from the photographer.  He takes photos of weddings all the time.  He should have a far better idea of what is expected, what people like, etc. than I do.  I completely understand that his first commitment is to the individual(s) who hired him.  I have absolutely no issue with the majority of shots being of the bride and her family.  None.  However, to be that completely focused on the bride means that you're going to end up alienating potential future customers, and frankly, that's not how someone in business should act.  I have never, in any of my postings, said I was not happy with the photos themselves.  For the most part, they were excellent.  Were I writing from a narcissistic bride's perspective, I would be ecstatic.  What I have noted, and no one will convince me otherwise, is that I don't believe a wedding photographer should shoot 99% of the photos centered around the bride, the bride's family and the bride's guests.  I've seen hundreds and hundreds of wedding photos/albums from family and friends, and only in my son's wedding have the photos been that incredibly one-sided. 

Postscript, while I wasn't happy with a lot of the decisions from the wedding, I'm not dwelling on it.  It's water under the bridge, but you're right.  It was the beginning of DIL issues that carry on to this day.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: justdontunderstand on June 13, 2010, 03:50:43 PM
Dear Stilltryen,

I think I understand how you feel about the one sided photos at the wedding. Both families were asked by the photographer to provide a written list of requested pictures for  our son's wedding. Which we gladly did. However, the bride and her family took so much time and added so many people during their turn, that the remaining time left us without enough time for our family. It seemed at the time, that our family was not important at this once in a lifetime event. It was really just a symptom, I think, that things were not going well with our new DIL.

At the rehearsal dinner, the bride's family had put together a slide show of the bride and groom as children through their wedding. We supplied all the pictures they asked for from us which included sibling shots and very specific themes, like family trips etc. Yet, when the slide show was presented, there were none of the pictures of our family included---none. Our son was in the slide show but none of his siblings or his Dad and me. We wondered why we were even asked to supply pictures. It was so obvious that several people asked us why we were not in the slide show. I didn't know what to say because I didn't know either.

I am not looking for things our DIL is doing that hurt us but sometimes things like this are just hard to understand. I wish I knew what she was thinking and how she might feel if it was her family that was left out.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: luise.volta on June 13, 2010, 05:19:20 PM
I wonder whatever happened to common decency and good taste? Manners? Thoughtfulness? Consideration?
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Pen on June 13, 2010, 05:26:41 PM
Oh, my, I'd forgotten about the slide shows of DIL and DS when they were young...we provided the photos and DIL picked those that excluded us as well. How do people justify this kind of behavior? As my DH frequently says, "Who raised her?" LOL
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: stilltryen on June 13, 2010, 08:05:48 PM
Penstamen and justdon'tunderstand, I asked my DIL if she was going to do a slideshow like what you're talking about.  She threw her nose up in the air and sniffed, "Absolutely not!  That's so tacky."  Ooooooops, sorry for asking.  Personally, I like them and think they're cute, but what do I know?  Now, maybe that was a good thing.  It probably would have just been another thing to get on my nerves. 
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: justdontunderstand on June 14, 2010, 06:06:47 AM
Quote from: luise.volta on June 13, 2010, 05:19:20 PM
I wonder whatever happened to common decency and good taste? Manners? Thoughtfulness? Consideration?

You have hit at the heart of one of things that bothers me so much. I am sure DIL feels we have done things that she doesn't like. While we could debate until the cows come home, point fingers and she said/ ......I won't engage in that and it won't solve anything anyway. What seems to me to be missing is a basic respect and consideration for her husband's parents (us)--which happen to be people she doesn't like.

I started out on shakey ground with my MIL forty years ago. I married her only adored child. Even with some of the harsh things she did and said, I always remembered that she was the mother of the person I loved and had at least something to do with making him the great person he was. I may not have liked her at first (later we became close) but I always respected her and would never knowingly have hurt her.  I did everything I could to show her that she would always be part of our lives. It took two or three years but she came to realize I was no threat to her. When she died, I was at her bedside everyday for two months. She took my hand and told me I was like a daughter to her.  It was  the greatest compliment she could ever give. I am not perfect but I think I know how important families are. I don't understand why some people want to exclude others from that experience.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: MLW07 on June 14, 2010, 08:29:51 AM
Quote from: penstamen on June 12, 2010, 07:59:29 PM
I'm not sure if the wedding antics are the cause or the effect of a strained relationship between ILs/DILs/DSs/FsOO etc. Each case is unique, more than likely.

For me I truly love my MIL while we were dating, but as soon as that ring went on my finger her claws and devil horns came out.  The whole thing was all about her and caveats to our wedding.  I can say it only got worse after the wedding and we have now been cut off for 1 1/2 years and little to no relationship for 2 1/2 years.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: MLW07 on June 14, 2010, 08:30:49 AM
Quote from: penstamen on June 13, 2010, 05:26:41 PM
Oh, my, I'd forgotten about the slide shows of DIL and DS when they were young...we provided the photos and DIL picked those that excluded us as well. How do people justify this kind of behavior? As my DH frequently says, "Who raised her?" LOL

That is just plain rude and disrespectful on her part.  Shame on her!
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: MLW07 on June 14, 2010, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: stilltryen on June 13, 2010, 03:13:07 PM
Daisy, we're nowhere near Chicago.  Again, it could be different regions have different styles.  I've been told by photographers here that they try to have a sit down meeting with the bride and groom and both sets of parents to iron out what kind of shots they'd like, etc.  As you're speaking from your experience, I'm speaking from mine.

You're correct that I should have said something; but that doesn't excuse the lack of professionalism (front my point of view) from the photographer.  He takes photos of weddings all the time.  He should have a far better idea of what is expected, what people like, etc. than I do.  I completely understand that his first commitment is to the individual(s) who hired him.  I have absolutely no issue with the majority of shots being of the bride and her family.  None.  However, to be that completely focused on the bride means that you're going to end up alienating potential future customers, and frankly, that's not how someone in business should act.  I have never, in any of my postings, said I was not happy with the photos themselves.  For the most part, they were excellent.  Were I writing from a narcissistic bride's perspective, I would be ecstatic.  What I have noted, and no one will convince me otherwise, is that I don't believe a wedding photographer should shoot 99% of the photos centered around the bride, the bride's family and the bride's guests.  I've seen hundreds and hundreds of wedding photos/albums from family and friends, and only in my son's wedding have the photos been that incredibly one-sided. 

Postscript, while I wasn't happy with a lot of the decisions from the wedding, I'm not dwelling on it.  It's water under the bridge, but you're right.  It was the beginning of DIL issues that carry on to this day.


We took my MIL to the photographer so that she could feel like she was a part of the picture decision.  It was there that she informed me that we were to stop the wedding reception to take a picture with her whole side of the family (30 people) including her brother that tried to kill my DH and her DH, pushed her to the ground and came after me.  He wasn't even invited; she was being sneaky and not respecting our decisions. 
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: Pen on June 14, 2010, 09:08:08 AM
MLW, it seems as though you did your part to include your MIL. She took advantage and now she's missing out on a good relationship with her DS and DIL; she sabotaged herself with her selfishness. I'm sorry you have to deal with this.

Again, why can't all the selfish MILs end up with all the selfish DILS and let the rest of us get on with it?  ;D
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: luise.volta on June 14, 2010, 02:29:18 PM
JDU - Tears streaming down my face reading your post of the bond you built with your MIL in spite of her spite. How beautiful. What an accomplishment. What a gift respect can be even when it isn't earned. Sending love...
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: justdontunderstand on June 14, 2010, 03:34:20 PM
"JDU - Tears streaming down my face reading your post of the bond you built with your MIL in spite of her spite. How beautiful. What an accomplishment. What a gift respect can be even when it isn't earned. Sending love.."

Luise,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. How kind of you. It hurts to think that maybe if I could talk with my own DIL, I could share my MIL experience with her too. However, I am relatively sure if I brought it up, she might think that I am criticizing her or blaming her for our lack of a functional relationship.  It helps to have such a great place to come to share our heartbreak and even our triumphs.

Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: daisy on June 19, 2010, 07:46:35 AM
I was trying to give you perspective from inside the photography business. I also agreed with you that it was bad business to exclude people.  Best of luck on your relationship.
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: luise.volta on June 19, 2010, 07:55:31 AM
Daisy - I found that info really useful. It's often a hot issue and we hear about it a lot. Sending love...
Title: Re: Power Struggles with DILs
Post by: daisy on June 19, 2010, 08:09:33 AM
Thanks Luise.   I am not blindly defending all photographers, I've heard horror stories for sure! One friend just told me it took seven weeks to get a photo CD (not even prints!) of her baby's first birthday photos. That is ridiculous and gives anyone who calls themselves a photographer a bad name.  This business is word of mouth and the original poster and my friend are never going to recommend those photographers to anyone and the photographers have no one to blame but themselves.