Hello
I am new here and I have a problem with my daughter in law. I do not know how to help or how to keep my relationship with her on the up and up..
So far my husband and I are not doing very well. Our son and his wife just had a new baby..our first grandson...However, after three months of trying to be a part of their lives ..we seem to have reached a roadblock.
It has to do with confidences and mixed up communication. she does not want us to mention her father at all when we are together..I mentioned it once a few weeks ago and received a very nasty email back telling me that it was not appreciated to mention him ..it upset my daughter in law too much..It seems he left her mother and the terrible past is not leaving nor forgotten..We as in laws have no clue what happened in her past.. She has other issues with us..stemming from a misunderstanding about keeping matters confidential..We did not know that her grandfather's illness was to be kept secret until later when we mentioned that we had told a few people to pray for her grandfather..that was a huge mistake too I guess.
I have been accused of wanting too much sympathy from them due to my arthritis and depression issues. I have been accused of many things and I am tired of the constant accusations..as if they are so perfect.
We need some advice as to how to get around this situation. I want to see my grandson and so does my husband but we feel unwelcome now after being presented with a written list of our faults. I can't believe my son would stoop so low as to write down all the things that I do that causes them grief. I raised my son to be understanding and mild mannered..he obviously is being brainwashed to some extent against me..and my husband. the situation is at an impasse..there is no reasoning with with my daughter law..I can't figure her out...Bitterness against her own father has turned her against us as well.
Quote from: Kathy on September 05, 2010, 09:04:01 PM
It has to do with confidences and mixed up communication. she does not want us to mention her father at all when we are together..I mentioned it once a few weeks ago and received a very nasty email back telling me that it was not appreciated to mention him ..it upset my daughter in law too much..It seems he left her mother and the terrible past is not leaving nor forgotten..We as in laws have no clue what happened in her past.. It would have been nice if you'd been given a heads up. YOu weren't, and you stepped into a minefield unknowingly. Follow her lead now that she has actually said she doesn't want him mentioned, and don't mention him.
She has other issues with us..stemming from a misunderstanding about keeping matters confidential..We did not know that her grandfather's illness was to be kept secret until later when we mentioned that we had told a few people to pray for her grandfather..that was a huge mistake too I guess. Seems to me dil feels talked about. Seems that's not the way you intended it, but is the way she is taking it. Best bet would be not to talk about her family to other people.
I have been accused of wanting too much sympathy from them due to my arthritis and depression issues. I have been accused of many things and I am tired of the constant accusations..as if they are so perfect. I don't have any advice there...other than to say people will believe what they want to believe. And, typically, when confronted with a truth that is opposite of what they believe--they only believe what they believe more and harder.
We need some advice as to how to get around this situation. I want to see my grandson and so does my husband but we feel unwelcome now after being presented with a written list of our faults. I can't believe my son would stoop so low as to write down all the things that I do that causes them grief. I raised my son to be understanding and mild mannered..he obviously is being brainwashed to some extent against me..and my husband. the situation is at an impasse..there is no reasoning with with my daughter law..I can't figure her out...Bitterness against her own father has turned her against us as well. Don't mention her dad and don't repeat anything you hear about her family. Seems to be an issue with her.
Kathy, I am so very sorry. Join the club, a not very happy club but a club with lots of members. I'd give it time and just keep away. I know how it hurts, you just can't believe it has happened and I do know how it feels when you want to knock on your son's head and ask him where he went because you no longer recognize him. I'm sure that over time it will get better but they are laying their boundaries down and at least you know what they are now. Boy, who'd have ever dreamed you'd have your list of faults all laid out? This is what they refer to as you trying to manipulate them with your illnesses or is it laying guilt on them? I forget which one it is when you have problems, it might be that they think you're needy. They have all these terms we never heard of. It's a minefield out there. Just back way off and know it's not you. Small comfort, I know.
Thank you so much 1Glitterati and barelythere... I am 62 years old and I have never been a mother in law before..I dreamed that I would be able to babysit my Grandchildren..since my daughter in law's mother just lives 4 doors away from her, there is little chance that we are going to be able to bond to this grandson. My other granddaughter who just turned one.lives two hours away by car and we have hardly ever seen her due to distance and of course being the '' other grandparents"" as the term implies.
I have only sons...no daughters ..My oldest son is 36 and is not married...he comes to visit us all the time and is a joy to have around..I sure hope he finds a nice lady who will be more open to us as in laws..so far we have a very poor track record.. They say...'three strikes and your out:"...maybe that will happen to us.. I sincerely hope not. Rejection is a terrible feeling and we are both feeling it.
The only consolation in all this is that my son works with my husband at the car dealership here in town. They do see each other and seem to get along. at work. ..thank goodness..
We will stay away from all issues that bother her from now on..I am the one having difficulty getting over this list of faults. I don't feel welcome there at all and don't want to go to visit them. If only they would come to visit me and let me have a few short hours with my grandson..that would be so wonderful. She breast feeds and the child is never out of hersight. They even switched churches and so we don't See them there either. She feels people criticize her too much there and so they left and went elsewhere.
Thanks again for all your wise counsel
Kathy, I just know the son who is a joy will find someone and still be a joy to you. Put all your love on them and him at the moment. Too much heartache in store with the others. It is a wound for a Mother and Dad that never heals. Just be glad you have a chance with one more. It's going to be fine.
Welcome - First of all, stop trying to figure her out. You can't. You can learn what is expected of you like not mentioning her dad or passing on anything about her...but understanding it is a lost cause. Rule umber one is "Don't Clutter it up wit logic," I'm sorry to say.
Your son is trying to make sense of it, of course. That's too bad but that's also his new job. It is usually much easier for an insecure DIL to say "Your mother made this mess"...rather than "I'm a screw-up." Many of us have seen it become a habit. Presenting you a list of your faults is a unilateral move. How realistic is that?
Our dreams of being grandmothers and the reality presented to us often don't match. We have to let go of our dreams. These young adults (who often don't have a clue) have established a new family unit with new rules, and we are on the outside looking in.
Distance is our only salvation...
Sending love...
Anna and Luise.volta..and barely there..thank you all so much..I especially like the comment made by Luise saying that our dreams about being grandmothers and the reality presented to us don't match. How true...It has been an eye opening experience and I hear others say..Ï am so excited and can't wait to be a Grand mother.." They are in for a let down big time.
When I bought the used playpen, I thought for sure I could help out and baby sit ..However a few days after the purchase, my DIL told me I probably didn'tneed the play pen and would be happy to help me sell it ...how mean can you get!!!
Distance is our only salvation...I agree and thanks for verifying that for me.
Kathy
Quote from: Kathy on September 06, 2010, 09:56:57 AM
Anna and Luise.volta..and barely there..thank you all so much..I especially like the comment made by Luise saying that our dreams about being grandmothers and the reality presented to us don't match. How true...It has been an eye opening experience and I hear others say..Ï am so excited and can't wait to be a Grand mother.." They are in for a let down big time.
When I bought the used playpen, I thought for sure I could help out and baby sit ..However a few days after the purchase, my DIL told me I probably didn'tneed the play pen and would be happy to help me sell it ...how mean can you get!!!
Distance is our only salvation...I agree and thanks for verifying that for me.
Kathy
Really disgusting of her, Kathy. Distance, distance.
Kathy...welcome. I too am going through the "NIGHTMARE" It isn't fun, easy or even comprehensible. Not one bit of this makes sense and from the women who are here to support you...they will all tell you, "you cannot make sense over something that doesn't make sense."
You are fortunate that your husband has contact with your son. That is a good thing. It took me 2 1/2 months to realize that nothing I could say, how many times I apologized (over something, anything, whatever) Just letting my DS and DIL know I love them and thinking about them, blah, blah, blah...it all was ignored and made me feel worse. It took this long for me to realize and understand it has very little to do with me. This is all about them and the more I begged, graveled and cried....it got me nowhere. Now, after all the support from the wonderful ladies here, some close family and friends...I realized all this and am able to sit back and say to myself, "I didn't do anything to deserve this and I don't want someone in my life who is treating me so poorly." I want my DS, DIL and GD in my life....surely...but not like this. I don't want to have the disrespect, the lies, the game playing, the two face behavior, the silent treatment when they don't get their way....That's not what a good mom and grandmother deserves. My other children don't treat me that way. I cried for 2 1/2 months and lost that much of my life and took the ME out of my other family members lives because I was so hurt by this. You need to understand that this is NOT about YOU! It's hard, so hard, the hardest thing I ever had to go through. I had cancer and still do...trying to get through this and the stress isn't helping me. I too had my DS and DIL tell me I whine or complain and they are sick of my drama...How dare them...How dare they not give me love, support and comfort. How dare your DS and DIL make that list for you too. Hold your head up. Deep Breaths...Believe me....Worrying, crying, all of that wasted energy got me know where....My DH's line, "How's that working for you?" He's right...it doesn't. LOVE YOURSELF!!!
Kathy, I too am a grandmother who has been let down big time. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I would be put in this position by the son who was closest to me.
When my DIL was pregnant I thought for sure I was going to be able to babysit, I decorated a room in my house for my GD with new furniture and all the prettiest things I could find. My DIL didn't say one word to me when she saw the room but by the way she look at me I knew what she was thinking. I had the best of intentions. I lost my mom at a young age, I had my father but men are not into that sort of thing, my MIL was deceased also, I would have given anything for my children to have had their grandmothers spoil them so that's the only thing that was going through my mind when I did it it and we're in a position now that we could do it. After 1 1/2 years of waiting I stopped fantacizing and converted the room into a guestroom. We have a daughter and another son so maybe we'll get another shot at it.
I am so sorry to hear you have had cancer. That is just such a burden on top of everything else ...I ask myself Why all the time..I say..I did everything for my son and would have given him my life when he was a little boy..He and all my sons were a special gift from God..But now..I have to wonder what I was thinking. I suffered with a botched epidural having my second son..(the one who lives 2 hours away)...We sacrifice and slave to have our children and then they turn on us ..I say..wait a few years and they will soon discover the joys of having children can turn to nightmares..as you say.
My Pastor's wife told me that I should take cookies over to my DIL and show how much I care...that is a very simple solution and I don't really think I can lower my self esteem and pride enough to go begging carrying cookies. One other complaint I get from my Son and his wife, is that I don't phone enough and call to see the baby. I am not begging over the phone either..I feel they could come to my house now and then and drop off my grandson and let me bond with him for just an hour or so..now and then..while they go grocery shopping..NO...they don't do that. They either get her mommy to mind him or they take turns looking after him while they other goes to do errands. At one point before the baby was born, my DIL and I went shopping at the Kushies outlet store for cloth diapers. I paid for the whole shopping spree, thinking I was doing the grandmotherly thing and helping with expenses. We even paid for the stroller and went shopping together to buy that.. It was over $300.00 Canadian. (I live in Canada ) Another beef I have is that I gave them $44,000 of my inheritance money from my father's estate
to help them buy their home..
So..distance seems to be the only solution . I hate that but I do have some pride and some self respect..I can't go over there and beg and plead to see my little 4 month old grandson..He is so cute..and I miss him. My birthday and my husband's birthday came and went in August..our 39th anniversary came and went too..no recognition ..no card..nothing.
Thanks ladies.. I need to get some support and you have helped enormously. It is so easy to open my mouth and tell the world how bad it is..especially when I get asked..."well how is that adorable grandson of yours doing?
I just smile and say..well he is growing every day..The last thing I need is to be told again that I am saying negative stuff about my DIL behind her back..funny thought ..she is creating the environment for me to be so outspoken and negative..How long can I keep lying to people and saying..öh my grandson is adorable and he is growing and making our lives so happy duh...
Guest 1...I read your comment and I am thoroughly disgusted with DI L's now ...You tried to set up a room for the baby..wow..What a wonderful gesture and how quickly we can shot down to the ground..
Life is too short to sit around and mope.. I see that now too..
Ladies you are all wonderful..I could give you all big hugs and tell you that this forum has helped me so much..I no longer am bitter and no longer care one way or another what happens down the way..I know I did nothing wrong and so..they will pay a dear price for this insulting behaviour.. IE...No Christmas gifts anymore...no birthday gifts anymore.. I don't plan on doing Christmas dinner now for them either.. I can hardly get around as it is with my sciatic nerve pain and joint problems due to a SSRI I was on for a year...I am now off that drug.. hopefully I will be ok soon..
Oh..I must not look for sympathy ..right..??? no sympathy is wanted anyways...
I figure in time they will come back and want some money ...I won't give it unless they let me bond with my grandson..that's it. new rules around here...
I simply can't get the image of the written list out of my head...
Love you all .. and stay strong.. You have helped me see I am not alone with this problem.
NO COOKIES!!!!!!
Oh, I did all of this. I got stuck with the remainder of a truck loan too. I did everything for my DIL that she wished for. It wasn't good enough or there was always something.
If they couldn't call you for your BD or anniversary...they have no intension on letting you back in now. Begging only feeds their selfishness. I have learned that I should have closed the door to the disprespect along time ago when it first happened. Now, I feel stupid and suckerpunched for begging and graveling after I did nothing to deserve this nonsense. Please, no cookies...unless you make them with chocolate ex-lax and let them have a taste of the upset stomache they have given you. (Just kidding, but it sounded good coming out)
Kathy, My BD is coming up too....So is my DS and we always have a special celebration and I too fear that I will still get the silent treatment.
I am preparing myself for it. I think to my DS it will be the ultimate punishment towards me and he may feel like the little big man for a while, but someday will regret this. I raised him better and I know some where in that knucklehead of a shallow man he is now...he'll wake up! I just hope that I am alive to see the day. I struggle with the thought of just wanting to leave him a message saying, "What kind of person abuses their mother by treating them cruel, cursing at them and then giving them the silent treatment, sticks them with a truck loan, lies and then feels fine about treating their entire family like they don't exist? What kind of person does that?" But....he won't hear it, be receptive to it or even acknowledge it...so why waste my breath. If he had a concience and really gave a hoot....He wouldn't be giving the silent treatment to our whole family.
Spend the money for the cookie dough for a nice martini or something!
I am so touched by the wisdom you have gained and are sharing, Miss U. Listen to her, K. Not long ago she saw no "daylight in the swamp" at all! Healing is a process and it starts by believing it is possible. This Website is living proof of that. Let go of the injustice when you can. When you are in it's grip...it can paralyze you. Sending love...
Thanks Luise! I feel better...still sad, but climbed out of that hole. I am now going to spend the rest of the day with my DH in the pool with some nice cold beers and talk about good things and laugh for a change.
Kathy....Smiles :)
Oh..thank you so much for this wonderful forum Luise..I have read that you started the ball rolling here..wonderful..
As for the cookie es..hmmm..I think I should make them and keep them for me. If my son should come over to visit me, he can have some. He loves my chocolate chip cookies..
The young Pastor's wife is just inexperienced and a baby herself.. No more asking advice from others..I will just come here and get my advice...After all, I don't want to be accused of talking behind her back...I am safe here and no one will come after me anymore for ""having a big Mouth"... which is what I was accused of.. Not quite those words but close enough..I got the drift..
Miss Understood..you have a wonderful day and enjoy that pool . It has been the hottest summer we have ever experienced in the Niagara Peninsula of southern Ontario ..The peaches are just heavenly right now...Our apple trees are starting to show nice big mutzu apples. Southern Ontario is on the same latitude as California..so we know hot weather here too.. Just because I live in Canada doesn't mean it is always cold...Usually here where I live it is fairly mild all year round.. Whatever you do..never never cross into Canada with snow skis on your roof.. in July or most of the year actually.. promise???ha ha..love you ladies.
Quote from: Kathy on September 06, 2010, 12:14:28 PM
I know I did nothing wrong and so..they will pay a dear price for this insulting behaviour.. IE...No Christmas gifts anymore...no birthday gifts anymore.. I don't plan on doing Christmas dinner now for them either..
I figure in time they will come back and want some money ...I won't give it unless they let me bond with my grandson..that's it. new rules around here...
If you can change this a little bit to more of an attitude of "I'm taking care of my well-being" and less of "This is how I'll show them!" you will heal that much faster, trust me. You're not going to spend any more money on them because you care about your health and sanity, not because you want to blackmail them into letting you back in. If they sense that, it most likely will backfire. And most definitely set some ground rules up regarding DGC...but realize DS & DIL may not agree, so be prepared. Again, state the rules as protection for yourself and your family, not as a "gotcha" for them.
Best wishes from one confused and hurt MIL to another :) Now go and enjoy what sounds like a beautiful area in which to thrive and recover!
OK..thanks for the advice.. it is easy to get the I'll show them attitude.....
I will be more concerned with my own health...that is my main concern...I have had enough With General anxiety disorder and I sure don't need to go back down into depression again..
Thanks ..hugs. I live in the Banana belt of Canada..right in the heart of wine country in the Niagara Peninsula..between lake Erie and Lake Ontario...lovely spot indeed. I am just north of Buffalo New York..Say hello as you pass by sometime on your way to Toronto...OK?
Actually we are heading down to Kentucky this weekend...Louisville to be exact. to the National Quartet Convention..we go every year.
Good point Pen. Getting well and getting even are very different. One promotes healing and the other keeps the wound form healing. Sending love..
And yes, I did start this. You can read about it in "Open Me First" on the Home Page under "How this Happened." :-)
We aren't enemy's to our mixed up children. We are their greatest fans, biggest supporters, the doormats....getting even isn't even in our nature. I think when we get angry...we all talk a bit vengeful, but I don't think any of us act on it. I sometimes do the same thing too. I even envision myself with my son across my lap giving him a splanking or washing his mouth out with soap...something I probably should have done the first time he disrespected me. All the what ifs, If I only and what could I possibly have done wrong to deserve any of this is just clouding up reality. Nothing...we loved our children...that's all.
Peaceful thoughts go out to all of you tonight :)
And peaceful thoughts to you, Wise Woman. :)
Once again..Miss Understood..you are so correct. Thank you for giving me food for thought and for reminding me..that I have to keep my emotions in check. Tonight my husband phoned my DIL to see if we could visit our GS for a few minutes..It was just after 7 pm..not really late...She replied in her matter of fact tone "He is sleeping now".
My husband just said..OK another time then...bye for now"..and hung up..
There we are...if my son had answered the phone I am sure he would have said..."OK come on over"...but he didn't and once again She controls his life and his family. It is a crying shame that he has been taken over by such a mean spirited person and we have to endure her smug attitude.
Peace to you all this Labour Day evening.
She is being just exactly like she is. It took me a long time to get that's what people do.(I have other scripts for them.) Sending love...
Kathy. Don't call anymore, as hard as it is. Rejection isn't an easy pill to swallow so don't set yourself up for it. Let them call you and when they ask why you don't call more, then tell them when you do you are always rejected, put the effort on them for a while.
Take a break. You deserve that. Just my opinion, but 7 p.m. Is late on a week night if they are trying to get on schedule...Maybe if you do ask again, since you still have communication, you can ask what a good time for them would be. Keep your chin up
I would like to say that we've never called DS and DIL to ask if we can come over, we always wait for them to invite us. We've been invited more often lately but have gone 9 mos. without visiting them at their house. They've come to our house several times in between and of course DIL's family can visit them anytime.
Quote from: Kathy on September 06, 2010, 06:17:01 PM
Once again..Miss Understood..you are so correct. Thank you for giving me food for thought and for reminding me..that I have to keep my emotions in check. Tonight my husband phoned my DIL to see if we could visit our GS for a few minutes..It was just after 7 pm..not really late...She replied in her matter of fact tone "He is sleeping now".
My husband just said..OK another time then...bye for now"..and hung up..
There we are...if my son had answered the phone I am sure he would have said..."OK come on over"...but he didn't and once again She controls his life and his family. It is a crying shame that he has been taken over by such a mean spirited person and we have to endure her smug attitude.
Peace to you all this Labour Day evening.
Perhaps you and your husband can make plans a little more in advance? I think last minute invites often throw a lot of people off and especially in an already confusing relationship, perhaps the asker and the invitee are "assuming" the worst about each others responses.
Kathy, my heart goes out to you. I can't imagine receiving a list of faults, it's just so cold and mechanical.
As an outside party though, it sounds to me as if it's a childish attempt at communication. Is there anything on the list you can use to help repair the relationship?
<< Once again..Miss Understood..you are so correct. Thank you for giving me food for thought and for reminding me..that I have to keep my emotions in check. Tonight my husband phoned my DIL to see if we could visit our GS for a few minutes..It was just after 7 pm..not really late...She replied in her matter of fact tone "He is sleeping now".
My husband just said..OK another time then...bye for now"..and hung up..
There we are...if my son had answered the phone I am sure he would have said..."OK come on over"...but he didn't and once again She controls his life and his family. It is a crying shame that he has been taken over by such a mean spirited person and we have to endure her smug attitude. >>
Kathy, what if you took this at face value? Your GS was sleeping, do you think your DS would have woke him for you to see him? Because that would have been the wrong thing for him to do.
I think in this case in particular, you've stretched an innocent comment into a hateful incident. Unfortunately, you're not just hurting yourself, you're hurting your DH and your relationship with DS, DIL and GS.
Kathy, this is going to be long.....but please read it and hear me out. I hope it will help you because reading it myself and hearing me...it helped me. I was not as receptive when I first came here....right Luise. I had the "BUT" syndrome. I have grown mountains.
I know how we want to see that baby...every second we can. Piece of advice...if you don't want to be cut out completely (which is the worst thing ever...trust me) Be more patient! Don't impose. NEVER! Let them invite you. It is fine to call during NON NAP or CLOSE TO BED times...ask how things are, do they need anything and maybe just say, "we'd like to come by when it is convenient for you and the baby's schedule" Leave it at that. You've given them the space, you've been considerate....you show you love them and are there for them. Let them extend the invite, atleast until there is some show of interest. You are very fortunate compared to most of us MIL's that you even have contact, even if strained. Whenever you feel anxious and want to overstep those boundaries....put yourself in one of our situations and that will surely stop you.
MINE: just so you know the history....My DS is my middle child, my only Son...he and I were the closest because he was a child from a divorce before the age of 1. I married my current spouse when he was 5 and worked really hard on initiating and encouraging a good relationship with his estranged father. My DH now really raised him and he was very, very close to my DH...they were buddy's. He always struggled with my ex, but I stood by and helped them work things out. My DS met a girl right out of Highschool, got her pregnant (she has a bit of a dysfuntional past) They wanted to get married, lived with us for 6 months, we were the primary care givers, helpers, the "trust worthy" grandparents. She got jealous because of the closeness and she got insecure with the love he had for me, his sisters, DH, Grandparents....At least this is how it appears. They cut us out of their lives completely. All of them. Stuck me with a silent treatment going on 3 months. Bills, truck loan and worst off I am banned and we are all banned from any contact with GD and DS. You'll ask, "there must have been something I did wrong, we did wrong." I searched for 2 ½ months and thought I had a label...I took the baby for a little bike ride while babysitting....BIG DEAL. Even if that was a problem, it doesn't warrant the axe. I looked for every excuse, anything that I possibly could have done. I graveled, begged for forgiveness, made things, sent things, calls...nothing. I ate crow basically for what? I learned it isn't about me...it's about them. I didn't do anything worthy of this treatment. If it wasn't for the "Bike Ride" which I believe she set me up for that and is using that as an excuse for their distance...it would have been something else. They are young, Very young. They are not happy or in love with each other...it's apparent. I have learned to let go as hard as it is and know that I left the door open, I shut it...but left it unlocked. I set boundaries now (even after I ate crow for so long) "No more cookies", gifts and graveling. I will no longer listen to cursing and yelling...if they ever speak to me again. I will no longer be a prisoner in my life to a dangling carrot (Baby) and tortured into doing what they say or else. It's there loss...I'm a GREAT MOM and SUPER DUPER GRANDMA...I live on the truth now. I am pouring my love into the others in my life that appreciate what I have and what I can give. Yes, I cry....daily...not as much. Yes, I pray, I meditate, I journal....I hope! I know that somewhere in that knucklehead skull of my son that he will remember the love and the togetherness and someday be able to eat his humble pie. My GD will be older...but I don't want them in my life the way they are treating me. I want them in my life, but not the abusive and no game playing, selfish, inconsiderate, rude children they are right now! Someday.....I have faith.
Kathy....Relax....You'll be fine...Trust the women here. Don't get to where I am and where most of the other women are. If I had only seen the warning signs coming...I surely would have done things different. I was blind to it all...for how could my precious baby boy ever oust his wonderful mama for some other girl? Never!!!!! Well....he did.
Quote from: Kathy on September 05, 2010, 09:04:01 PMIt has to do with confidences and mixed up communication. she does not want us to mention her father at all when we are together..I mentioned it once a few weeks ago and received a very nasty email back telling me that it was not appreciated to mention him ... She has other issues with us..stemming from a misunderstanding about keeping matters confidential..We did not know that her grandfather's illness was to be kept secret until later when we mentioned that we had told a few people to pray for her grandfather...
Why are you talking about her family members to others? They don't appear to be friends of yours. This can legitimately be considered gossip. And nobody likes to be gossiped about--even to your friends at church. Do you suppose your talking out of turn is the reason they switched churches? You've embarassed them or spread too much information about them around. You sound judgmental in your assessment of her, her bitterness towards her father is her business and likely justified, but in any case not your business. Discussing it and the health of her grandfather with others was definitely out of line in my opinion. I hope you've apologized for it. I don't think I've ever discussed my DILs' family members with anyone, I don't see what reason there would be to do so.
Quote from: Kathy on September 05, 2010, 09:04:01 PMI have been accused of wanting too much sympathy from them due to my arthritis and depression issues. I have been accused of many things and I am tired of the constant accusations..as if they are so perfect.
It's very common for us older folks to discuss our health issues way too often without realizing how tedious it is to listen to. Mostly people our own age understand, but younger folks often don't and see it as being needy or complaining or as a form of guilt tripping. It won't hurt to button up the complaints about your health, or to even apologize to your son and DIL and say you realize you've been complaining too much about your health and you are sorry. It would go a long way to fixing the problem.
Quote from: Kathy on September 05, 2010, 09:04:01 PMI can't believe my son would stoop so low as to write down all the things that I do that causes them grief. I raised my son to be understanding and mild mannered..he obviously is being brainwashed to some extent against me..and my husband. the situation is at an impasse..there is no reasoning with with my daughter law..I can't figure her out...Bitterness against her own father has turned her against us as well.
If you are causing them grief, wouldn't you want to know about it so you can stop it? Surely you don't want to cause anyone grief?
You say you raised your son to be understanding and mild mannered. I'm guessing he's being very understanding of his wife's pain regarding her unhappiness with her father and her grandfather's illness. And by mild-mannered, do you mean: never to criticize you? Putting his problems with you on paper sounds like a good mild-mannered non-confrontational way to address his concerns. This is not 'brainwashing', if his wife is unhappy about you spreading talk about her grandfather's health, or mentioning her father when she doesn't want to discuss it, or talking about her behind her back, he's right to address it with you. He's probably no happier about you doing this than she is.
I doubt that her feelings towards her father have anything to do with the problems she has with you. If there's a list of behaviors you do that cause them grief, then those are the things that have caused problems in your relationship with her. It's kind of a stretch to blame her father.
I'm sorry you feel apologizing is 'stooping' and begging because apology and behavior change is how to fix the situation. If you reject apologizing, then you reject any possibility of easing the tension. Pride may be more important to you; only you know what your priorities are. But I want to caution you that your idea "I won't give you money unless you give me time with your baby" is a terrible one. It will confirm all the uneasy suspicions they have about you, particularly if they think you are manipulative. You will lose your son and his family for sure. Give or don't give as you see fit, but don't attach strings--because those strings will be the ones you end up hanging by.
You make some good points, MG...a Wise Woman, indeed. Sending love...
There is a big difference in showing concern and talking behind someone's back. She said that they did not know prior to doing it, that it would upset DIL. For most people that attend Church, it would be totally normal to say to your friends, "Please pray for my DIL's grandfather that is ill." I see that in no way as gossip. I have told my own Mother to please keep my DIL's Mother in her prayers because she was sick. Was I gossiping? No, I just believe in the power of prayer.
Now that she has been told by DIL that those things are to be kept private, then it is different. I would have apologized to my DIL upon finding out it upset her and told her I had no idea that was a secret. But I also would have expected my DIL to accept the apology, at face value and move on.
Relationships are a two-way street and not everything is up to the MIL to make work or up to only the DIL to make work. It takes both parties willing to communicate and give.
Pooh....I am like you....I apologize immediately when I "know" I have stepped on someone's toes or feelings. In a perfect world though...our apologies would be accepted and you move forward. That is not always the case and maybe this DIL is just using that situation as a crutch or reason...my DIL did. If it wasn't the Bike Ride, it would have been something else. It seems very childish and immature that our Adult Children expect that everyone else toe a straight line and there is no room for error when it comes to us...but they are allowed to and we are supposed to take it. I would never have given my mother a list or let alone my MIL a list of shortcomings. My DIL gave my DS a list that he didn't knew existed and now....That is all he sees...her list. Who cares? I sure can make a list, we all can make a list. Kathy. Don't be so hard on yourself. Burn the list and make your own. I like my list :) Stand on the truth, continue to pray for the DIL and her family and who ever you choose. Just do the smart thing and don't tell her anymore. Man...If I could go back to the day I went for a bike ride...knowing what I know now...I probably would have kept my mouth shut. I wasn't given the do's and don't list....I was supposed to read their minds. We are all misunderstood and all human and all loving to our adult children. All of us. I have not heard from an abusive, mean nasty mother or mil on here ever.
"I may be a pain in the rear....but my heart is in the right place." That's my new motto....above my new list.
Make one Kathy and believe in yourself.
Quote from: Miss Understood on September 07, 2010, 10:37:18 AM
Pooh....I am like you....I apologize immediately when I "know" I have stepped on someone's toes or feelings. In a perfect world though...our apologies would be accepted and you move forward. That is not always the case and maybe this DIL is just using that situation as a crutch or reason...my DIL did. If it wasn't the Bike Ride, it would have been something else. It seems very childish and immature that our Adult Children expect that everyone else toe a straight line and there is no room for error when it comes to us...but they are allowed to and we are supposed to take it. I would never have given my mother a list or let alone my MIL a list of shortcomings. My DIL gave my DS a list that he didn't knew existed and now....That is all he sees...her list. Who cares? I sure can make a list, we all can make a list. Kathy. Don't be so hard on yourself. Burn the list and make your own. I like my list :) Stand on the truth, continue to pray for the DIL and her family and who ever you choose. Just do the smart thing and don't tell her anymore. Man...If I could go back to the day I went for a bike ride...knowing what I know now...I probably would have kept my mouth shut. I wasn't given the do's and don't list....I was supposed to read their minds. We are all misunderstood and all human and all loving to our adult children. All of us. I have not heard from an abusive, mean nasty mother or mil on here ever.
"I may be a pain in the rear....but my heart is in the right place." That's my new motto....above my new list.
Make one Kathy and believe in yourself.
Hear Hear!! Miss Understood...you are one wise woman! Thank you for speaking for many of us. Giving my parents a list, please! Like they're 3 years olds.
Oooh....love the new motto. Let's see...we should all have one. Mine shall be:
"Sometimes you can get a splinter even sliding down a rainbow"
Hahaha! BT....what was I thinking when I took that garbage? What were they thinking when they dished it out? You were right...it was like the light was going to come one...it did.
O.K. One think I would like to say is that we all WANT to have this relationship with them, the one we anticipated, the one we waited and worked for their whole life as they were growing up. The dream of being grandparents and spoiling them rotten and then sending them home. For a long time, my parents weren't the grandparents that I wanted them to be. They traveled and had thier own life... So, when I had my first GC....I became so wrapped up in my GD and thought that is what it was supposed to be like. Well, when the other one's came along...same thing. Everything for the GC. But...then my DS and DIL had theirs and I am not allowed to be what I thought I was supposed to be like...made me wonder how my kids all raised under the same roof could be so different and treat me so different too. I took the blame...read their list....then poppy cock! I woke up!
It really isn't about me....even if they try to make it that it is. My DD says that she feels blessed to have me in her life and the grandmother I am too. I am holding on to that...it is much more palateable then the cursing and negative list that is imaginary and nothing but a self loathing anger list because they made choices that they have live with. Always blame the other....at least when you are immature. It's easier...but one day...you wake up and then realize you were wrong and you hope that the one's you wronged are still around.
I send my best thoughts. when I first came to this site, I couldn't see any light at all. There are still good days and terrible weekends. I find the wisdom of "distance" to heal me the most. Never would I have recommended such a tact, but it is now the best part in my bag of healing things to do. Another thing to consider is "not looking for logic". There is no logic here. It is only about escaping their pain and deflecting it in some other direction.
This theme is so prevalent, I almost had to look for a signature, wondering if this was my post! The point isn't about us, but knowing that you are in such large company.
You will likely never know what started these "misunderstandings". After getting some distance and talking this ad nauseum, most people read the situation as a completely outrageous and say, "there by the grace of God go I".
I was taught by a very good practitioner years ago, to listen to what my gut is saying. Well, my gut and yours feels "punched". It is known as the sucker punch.
Pooh..
I appreciate your comments because they are right on track. You understand my situation better than MagicGram. First of all, her father and mother attended our church and that is how we met them.. My son fell in love with their daughter through the church,..He was an active member and was even appointed chairman of the Board of Management..Since my husband was church Treasurer and still is...They became close friends..It wasn't until after the wedding of my son to their daughter, that we found out the double life that was playing out in their home..The marriage was a sham from the beginning. My DIL's mother told me that her hubby had been having affairs for a long time..couldn't keep a job and generally was not pulling his weight in the marriage..We knew nothing of this and neither did my son. so..after the wedding...He walks out. leaves the church and us and moves to a different place. Divorce took place..the whole thing. Now..my DIL is devastated and blames her dad for leaving her mom..She is bitter and does not tell us all the story..We had no idea how bad her homelife had been..
So..we see the baby and I say" has father seen his GC lately??? Bad move on my part. Neither me nor my husband were suppose to mention him and since we don't know the "whole story"" then we could not possibly understand her reaction.
So thanks Pooh..you are right on here. We knew her father very well. We did not know her grandfather very well.. He was a big influence in her life. A great photographer..and a great man..she held him with great pride. So he has this sudden heart attack out west. We only met him at their wedding..However..everyone at church knew my DIL and her mother... So..we mentioned it to only a few folks...the Pastor..the youth pastor and a friend of hers..She and my son left the church because they felt people were "too critical"of them.,.duh...
So..there is a big difference betwen showing concern and talking behind their backs. It was totally normal to ask for prayer for her grandfather...who died ...by the way...a few days later... We sent a sympathy card to my son and DIL as well as to her mom. But by now..it was too late...because the damage had already been done...wWe found out later..that DIL didn't want anyinfo getting back to her dad..since there are folks who still talk to him in the church.. sad huh??? this whole thing is very sad. I did apologize to my DIL and I did so through e-mail..the same way she had blasted me..She anever confronted me in person..no..and even when the list of faults was rpresented. she never madee eye contact with me...My son did all the talking and pulled this list out of his wallet which he then promptly put back in his wallet...I do not have it.
Quote from: Pooh on September 07, 2010, 10:22:25 AM
There is a big difference in showing concern and talking behind someone's back. She said that they did not know prior to doing it, that it would upset DIL. For most people that attend Church, it would be totally normal to say to your friends, "Please pray for my DIL's grandfather that is ill." I see that in no way as gossip. I have told my own Mother to please keep my DIL's Mother in her prayers because she was sick. Was I gossiping? No, I just believe in the power of prayer.
Now that she has been told by DIL that those things are to be kept private, then it is different. I would have apologized to my DIL upon finding out it upset her and told her I had no idea that was a secret. But I also would have expected my DIL to accept the apology, at face value and move on.
Relationships are a two-way street and not everything is up to the MIL to make work or up to only the DIL to make work. It takes both parties willing to communicate and give.
Kathy, you did nothing wrong. Nothing. Anyone who has been in church any length at all knows people of the congregation ask for prayer. It is considered a family, the church you're in. Your DIL is embarrassed and probably doesn't want you to know how fragile and human her family is/was. It probably humiliated her and she is acting out. Course, your son, the friendly "gofer", like they all are carried her list to you trying to be the good husband. "Let's blame the MIL" Oldest game in the world. Don't worry...this will pass. You did nothing to cause this. Don't let her make you think you did.
Yup, you're clear. We voted! Now, just don't look for understanding beyond our forum! Remember the rule..."They aren't going to clutter this up with logic." You need many different points of view to dig your way out of a maze like this...and we have offered that...with love.
Thanks once again ...I have a response for Magic gram and will still post it ..However..before I do..please tell me how to type on this site..I seem to run out of space and then I can't type or see what I am typing..also how do you applythe quotes..before or after what you type..I can't seem to figure out how to type once I put a quote in my post..It just slows down and I have nospace left.
very frustrating..to say the least..
Thanks..so much.. you are all great here...
I do have to explain bit to MagicGram though ..so I will post another reply to her...
I
MagicGram
You are not seeing the whole picture here. I am not seeking sympathy from my son or his wife..I can't walk because I can't bend my knee..every step hurts..I don't have to say anything..One can tell I am in pain..I do not seek sympathy from anyone.
My son had no idea of his wife's former life in that home. He still doesn't know it all and may never know. Her feelings towards her father are colouring her view of life in general ..Why do you suppose they left our church...? It wasn' because of my critical spirit..it was because she can't handle anyone criticing her or challenging her point of view..whether it was telling the children's story or whether it was how she handled the job of taking photos for the church directory . She felt threatened by everyone and certainly we did not threaten or critize anything she did in church....If anything , I often mentioned to her that she should be a teacher because she did the job so well.. A person with a great gift for scrapbooking and for making cards and leading children's programs...wow..she has a great gift...but...she can't take criticism and when dished out she left...She can't handle it and my point is she has been hurt terribly by her father...So..it comes around to us..and we are also threatening her somehow.. I really don't know. ..if you ask me My husband and I both thnk she needs counselling.
Hey Kathy, it looks like you've figured out the page size dilemma, but in case anyone else needs to know, here's how to create more writing space: Put your cursor on the line that separates the bottom of the writing area from the rest of the web page until you see the little double-headed arrow. Click and drag to enlarge your writing area. Full disclosure, it took me a time or two to figure it out ::)
Kathy, best wishes to you. This is surely a painful time, and many of us have been there or are there now as well. Keep moving forward, resist getting stuck, but know that occasionally you may have a setback. It's OK. {{{hugs}}}
The most difficult thing about all this is that we're often dealing with people who've been so hurt before we ever came along that they are very confused. Their emotions are in turmoil, and we're an easy scapegoat for their anger or whatever. As Luise says, there's no way to make sense out of a situation that makes no sense (or something like that.) We can only change ourselves, sadly, and until your DIL decides on her own to get help with her issues her behavior isn't likely to change.