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Problem Solving => Grandchildren => Topic started by: Gransy on October 29, 2009, 07:58:57 PM

Title: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: Gransy on October 29, 2009, 07:58:57 PM
My  daughter (30 yrs) has always be difficult to deal with. She only sees things her way and is bizare in many ways. No vaccines for the kids. No control of them. Says she can't control they 3 year old from climbing up on the fridge and other things like going out the front door. (I say how bout being there and telling her not to and telling her to get down from there. The 7 year old has to wash the 3 yr olds hair and help her get dressed etc. Neither flushes the toilet or washes their hands-neither does she. Now, the 7 year old talks to us Grandparents on the adult level with no respect for adults or us as her grandparents. Just last week we took the whole family for a weeks vacation and treated them all. Giving and giving. I attempted to discuss with my daughter that the 7 year old was sassy with us at times. Her response was ---I don't see anything wrong with what she's doing so I'm not going to say anything to her===If you see something wrong with it then you say something. To me she should correct them when she's acting that way but she doesn't. That's part of teaching them to respect. I grew up with respect for adults and would never even think of being sassy. This is the same 7 year old child who had to go to Friendship classes at school to make friends. My daughter has since decided to home school because the school is at fault because she doesn't pay attention or listen or conform to the teachers requests and other issues. She puts everything back on the teachers. During the vacation, my husband took the 7 and 3 year old for the whole day to the pool and arts and crafts and the 7 year old sat at the table in front of her parents and told my husband how he should have taken them to a different pool and should had done this and that another way instead. No gratitude. And yes, my daughter and husband said nothing to her--like you should be glad he took you. None of them thanked us when they left (as they never do for anything like birthdays and Christmas). We never get a Birthday card or wish let alone a gift. I did not bring her up like this. I feel my daughter is obstanant, selfish and thoughtless. She's my only child. Right now I am hating her and the 7 year old. I feel used and hurt. I have had to go see a counselor. What do you all think?
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on October 29, 2009, 08:41:47 PM
Oh my gosh, Gransy,
I always thought if you had a daughter you'd never have problems.  I know that was way too wishful thinking. 

I'm so sorry this is happening. I'm sure you're caught in an awful trap.  Someone on this board, more qualified than I am can probably help you. 

It does sound like you're being used.  Someone in the family is going to need to be the boss and tell it like it is to all of them.  They're ruining your life and that's not at all fair.

It's so sad when a child is disrespectful. The problem that parents don't understand is the child will grow up and be disliked in society and it's all because the parents blamed someone else.   It's too bad when parents don't discipline because discipline is the way you ensure the child will grow up and not be hated in his/her future life.

I personally feel like your daughter is using you and your husband.  I am so sorry. I don't blame you for hating the 7 year old at all. That's exactly how others will feel about her when she grows up if this continues. 

I hope I've helped.  Wishing you blessings.
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: mom2 on October 30, 2009, 08:19:18 AM
Gransy,

I can fully see where you are coming from. My problems are with the DIL and son and he ( our son ) disrespected us as bad as she did. I had to basically cut them from our lives because they were a constant heartache to me and all I did was cry. Every time I tried to mend things I got slapped in the face again

It's hard for some people to understand how, we as mothers, could just cut them from our lives but after years of trying and getting no where, I don't see another option and it couldn't be healthy for anyone to hurt and be stressed out of your mind all time. I, of course, love my son with all my heart and that will never change but when I feel guilty and think maybe I did the wrong thing, I start to think of the fact that they didn't care how they treated us and they still don't.

We love them but I don't think it's good for us to think so little of ourselves ( talking about myself ) that we let them, kids or no kids, treat us that way.

I hope you can find some peace of mind with all this but in the meantime we are here to talk and support each other.  Blessings

Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on October 30, 2009, 08:38:30 AM
Dear Mom2,
You said it perfectly and I hope Gramsy will take heart that so many of us are with her.   
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: AnnieB on October 30, 2009, 08:46:33 AM
Wow, a difficult situation for a parent and grandparent, Gramsy!

It is perhaps a good thing the grandchildren have someone there who can offer them an alternative way to be -- children just follow what their parents do, but they will also absorb stuff from loving grandparents (maybe not now, but at least they'll know there are other ways to behave and be).

Hang in there! 
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on October 30, 2009, 09:09:35 AM
Dear Gramsy,
You'll most likely be getting a number of different opinions on here. What does your heart say?  Are you being treated badly?  How does that make you feel? 

At some point, even when you can be a good influence on the grandchildren, you have to take yourself into account.  You're one of those hamsters on the wheel, always running and getting nowhere.

I am as much talking to myself than I am to you.  I need a good swift kick in the pants for allowing my DIL to walk all over us.  I'm trying to keep in tact the only family I have when I know good and well it's just a facade. 

This abuse of you and your husband has to stop.  I hope you do get counseling and I hope you can find the answer to this.  No one has the right to kick us around, even our kids.  People do what they are allowed to do to us.  Even me...I allow a woman who is so jealous to make me feel worthless.

It needs to stop.  Great success....I hope you will let us know how you are.
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: AnnieB on October 30, 2009, 10:17:45 AM
Oh.... dear yes.,...

by "hang in there" I didn't mean stay.... that's just a phrase about life.  Sorry if it sounded like I was telling you to stay if you need to go!
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: mom2 on October 30, 2009, 10:23:58 AM
Chickiebaby,

Amen to that... I have also allowed a Jealous DIL make me feel like pond scum and I don't understand why because I know I was a good mom and a good grandma. Why do we do that ?
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on October 30, 2009, 12:48:40 PM
Yep, we just keep on taking whatever we can get!  It's hard!
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: mom2 on October 30, 2009, 12:55:28 PM
Dear Anna.
My DIL is the same as yours.. it is in her head that I want to mother her children or take her place. My son does call me but never if she is around and he will even sneak by and see me if there is no chance she will find out.

I never bad mouth her to my son and he knows how much I love him and the grandchild. I don't think we can ever shut love off.

As I have said, I don't trust them enough to let them back into my life ( as far as a real relationship ) because I am afraid of it happening again ( like so many many times before ).

I admire your strength for not giving up and I wish I felt that way. It has been over 10 yrs and I guess I feel it is a lost cause. Maybe you can give me some tips on how you do it.?             Thanks
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on October 30, 2009, 01:14:37 PM
None of us here ever dreamed we'd have to walk this lonely road.  I try so hard to keep it together but sometimes I just can't.

My husband said:  "he got married, that's what happened to him"

Getting married should never do this to a person!  Deliberately pointing out ever flaw a Mother has to a grown child should be a crime.  How dare her make him think he was not loved here! 

I hate to say this because I am a kind and loving person but I hope I live to see the day when her sons grow up and marry.  What a day that's going to be.  Those wives will not like her at all. 
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on October 30, 2009, 05:19:34 PM
Anna,
I'm so glad your son at least calls you. That means a lot.  It is beyond sad that he has to sneak around to see you.  I am amazed that you don't say something.  I probably wouldn't either....might make it worse for everyone. My heart is broken for us. 

All of us have a long hard road to go but with each other, I think we can make it.  Just knowing we are not alone means a lot.  Heart to heart!!
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: just2baccepted on October 30, 2009, 07:56:31 PM
Quote from: mom2 on October 30, 2009, 10:23:58 AM
Chickiebaby,

Amen to that... I have also allowed a Jealous DIL make me feel like pond scum and I don't understand why because I know I was a good mom and a good grandma. Why do we do that ?

I may not have children but I can say that I'm sure I would put up with this too just to get see my adult child once in awhile and the potential grandchildren.  Its a shame but its hard to think of what else can be done except sitting them down and asking what everyone could do to make the relationship better. I'm so sorry.
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on October 30, 2009, 08:10:19 PM
I know you would, J2b...you're so tender hearted that you can imagine.  I would do the same thing but it's way too much for the DIL for him to be with us alone.  It just won't happen. 
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: just2baccepted on November 07, 2009, 10:34:47 AM
Thank you Chickie and Anna.  But that that last post from Anna I went wow part of that sounds like my MIL.  Anna your DIL will probably be a MIL like mine.  I've even thought to myself that I bet my MIL was a difficult DIL.  I asked my DH about this and he said he really didn't know b/c he rarely saw his dad's family.  They came over  a few times for holidays but that's it.  All I knew about FIL family was his mom was in a nursing home and I NEVER met her and NEVER heard my MIL or FIL talk about her.  And my FIL has two daughters and another son from another marriage.  I've met the son once and the daughter's I've NEVER met and even heard the IL's utter not a word about them or see pictures or anything.  It's like his family doesn't even exist.  But I've seen MIL's extended family plenty of times. Her mom has even come over to our house.  I see them probably about three times a year and DH see them probably 5 times a year.  MIL really pushes us hard to go down to see the her family.  That's very important to her.

And then Anna's comment about her DIL being the queen, my DH has said his mom acts like she's the queen bee.  I thought yea that's why she throws things and breaks them b/c if she feels her queen bee status is being threatened then glass goes a flying!  ::)  My FIL has been pretty rude to me as well but I have to say I do feel somewhat sorry for him b/c I'll bet MIL is hard to live with especially as she gets older and apparently she's struggled with depression ever since we moved further away.  Very sad.
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 07, 2009, 12:59:02 PM
Please help me....DIL said they were spending their time at her mom's and coming to the other DIL's for Thanksgiving and then back to her Mom's. I'm as low as I have ever been. We are not loved, we are not.  There is nowhere for me to turn.
 
My husband is so sick of this that he wants to just be rid of them.  He doesn't want to talk about this anymore or his days ruined. That we don't deserve this.

It leaves me with no one.  I asked the other DIL what she thought it was that they will not come here and she said it was control.  I can't take this.  I am not wanted.  I'm so mixed up because other people love me but I have no heart left.  When your kids don't love you, nothing else matters.
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: just2baccepted on November 07, 2009, 01:43:06 PM
Quote from: 2chickiebaby on November 07, 2009, 12:59:02 PM
Please help me....DIL said they were spending their time at her mom's and coming to the other DIL's for Thanksgiving and then back to her Mom's. I'm as low as I have ever been. We are not loved, we are not.  There is nowhere for me to turn.
 
My husband is so sick of this that he wants to just be rid of them.  He doesn't want to talk about this anymore or his days ruined. That we don't deserve this.

It leaves me with no one.  I asked the other DIL what she thought it was that they will not come here and she said it was control.  I can't take this.  I am not wanted.  I'm so mixed up because other people love me but I have no heart left.  When your kids don't love you, nothing else matters.

Can you not just go ahead and go over to close DIL's house and spend Thanksgiving w./ them??  That way you can see your son and grandkids.

Also when you say that your DH is tired of hearing about this.  How long has it been this bad?  What i mean is that you said your son and DIL have been married for 16 years I believe?  Has all this been this bad the entire marriage or has it gotton gradually worse?  Was there an incident that occurred that you noticed a shift in behavior?  I'm been on this post since Aug and your issues with DIL seem to be just as bad today as then.  So I was just curious if they've always been this way and have you actually been under this kind of stress your son's entire marriage to this girl?

I'm sure to that your son loves you its just that he's under her control maybe?  I really don't know, or he's just tired of a tug of war maybe?  I know that's how my DH has decribed our situation.  And also were you planning on cooking TG @ your house and then they were just going to blow you off?  Could it be that they're planning on coming to your house for Christmas?  We used to go to my family for TG and then C-mas eve with his family.  Could it just be that?  Just trying to help.
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: Pen on November 07, 2009, 02:18:30 PM
Quote from: 2chickiebaby on November 07, 2009, 12:59:02 PM

It leaves me with no one.  I asked the other DIL what she thought it was that they will not come here and she said it was control.  I can't take this.  I am not wanted.  I'm so mixed up because other people love me but I have no heart left.  When your kids don't love you, nothing else matters.

What can I say other than we're listening to you? Please take care of yourself during this time. Be gentle with your husband, too. My heart is breaking for you.
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: mom2 on November 07, 2009, 02:41:33 PM
To her moms, to Close Dil's and back to her moms ??

I don't understand it either.. why in the world would our sons allow these women to do this???  I am so sorry Chickiebaby!! Don't feel alone because I have been there/ done that !! Our son and DIL always wanted to meet at another family members home for holidays ( that is when they weren't having it at their house and we weren't invited ). Dil never wanted to come here and told other family members that she felt if we met at so and so's house, we would be on neutral ground !!! I stopped going because I felt like a dang intruder !!!!!!  for goodness sake...if it's so bad that we can't even come to each others homes, why even have it? ( speaking for myself )

I have been blue all day and I just don't get it. I am pretty much convinced that they hate us.
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 07, 2009, 03:55:31 PM
I want to answer all of you but I don't know how.  Distant DIL is going to close DIL's and not here at all.  I don't know of anyone but all of you who have these issues.  I am loved by others just not my own kids.  I could just die. 

Distant DIL has been a butch to me since the day they married, not before.  Her parents were for their marriage to begin with and then against it because they didn't marry on a certain day the MIL said to marry. God talks to her in a special way. Our son was so adored in the community that I guess the breakup embarrassed them. Their daughter was not as well known and I had never heard of her.   They came to the wedding but walked out in the middle of it. Horrible!  Stood up and walked out.

We stood by them forever.  Then, DIL turned only to her parents only, dragging son with her and treated us like dirt. We don't understand her and we don't fit in anywhere. I love my sons, both of them.  I don't wish this on my worst enemy. I don't know how son feels this long into it anymore. He's such a robot.

CLose DIL is good to me in that she calls me and we are a part of their lives.  I'm glad for that but the whole thing has caused such a rift in our lives that I can't even begin to tell you.

I don't know what to do about Christmas. I don't know if I should even put up a tree.  Husband wants to cut them out of our lives and can't understand how I can go on longingly putting up with their disrespect.  I can't make him understand that I can't turn love off. 

That girl has destroyed my life, everything.  There's so much more to this....this seems so trite what I am saying but you can see it in both son's eyes..the love is no longer there for us and we gave everything to them. I loved my family who raised me so much that nothing could have made me stop, nothing. How can you stop loving your parents?   I can't get over this. 

How do I act at Thanksgiving over at close DIL's?  How do I behave?  I'm hated so what do I do? 
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: mom2 on November 07, 2009, 06:07:32 PM
Chickiebaby,

It is all so devastating that we really don't know what to say; I can't explain it to anyone, not really, because I don't know what the problem is, I just don't. Like you, we helped them, loved them, adored their child and nothing mattered...nothing. Of course, her family is wonderful ( and trust me, they aren't.)

Our son is so different now ( he is her ) and I can tell that he does not love us like he used to, not even close.  I love him and always will ( that is not the issue ) but I am so worn out with all this and feel like there is nothing left to say or do because it wouldn't matter anyway. I guess we can stay out of their lives, not call and leave them alone but to not love them isn't an option for a mother.

My husband says he doesn't care if they come around or not because they act like jerks; ( son and dad used to be so close ) sad isn't it?? it makes me sick.

Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 07, 2009, 06:25:41 PM
That's it....if I could figure out where I belong in a family.  I can't find it.  He is her, completely.  His thought come right out of her mouth. It's horrible. Sickening. She is the single most sickening thing I've ever met. 

My husband is such a good man and deserves more than this. At least he deserves a wife who won't be devastated all the time. I can't help it.  I can't find where I belong. He was such a wonderful father. None better.  How can they both be so aloof toward us?  I don't understand.

None of us get it, none of us on this board get it.  This is life ending and life altering. I've either got to find a way to go on or something.  How can son live with himself with this woman?  I've tried everything with her. Nothing works.

I have friends whose daughters are wonderful to me. I don't get it. They love me, why can't she?  I don't know how to behave at Thanksgiving.  I can't stand this limbo I"m in. I've never had anyone treat me like this. My son's wife?  Are you kidding me?  That one?  If there was anyone else, I'd say, "boy, she's got a problem"  Oh my gosh, she is so strange and mean, mean, mean.  I don't know how to be mean back to her. I don't know how.  I am missing that gene.
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: just2baccepted on November 07, 2009, 07:06:57 PM
I don't know what to do about Christmas. I don't know if I should even put up a tree

I went through that same thing, thinking of what's the point when our family is so fractured and I can't have kids.  But then I thought well my DH is here and we can still celebrate the holidays together.  Now b/c we go up to that historical town with the Christmas stuff going on I really look forward to Christmas now.  I have no kids to buy Christmas for so DH and I do the toys for tots program and that feels great to do that.  My great aunt works at a soup kitchen (volunteers)

So put that tree up girl!!  And maybe look into the toys for tots program. My DH is in the Air Force so we do it through them.  I think it helps to think of people in need when we're feeling so bad about life. 
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 07, 2009, 07:24:15 PM
Thank you, J2b,  I'm sure we will put up the tree.  Honestly, if you could meet her....she's the weirdest thing I've ever met! 

I only wanted a family and we had one, the best ever. I know it was so hard for son to break away from this home.  Her religious demands, coming from her mother are like rules that just seem so hard to live with. Like God is some kind of magician or something.  Rules, rules, rules.

We are religious too, very. But we aren't legalistic. In other words, we know that man falls all the time no matter how hard he tries, he still falls.  There's no room in her life for that.  "okay, so your brother died, now this the will of God for you"  Just like, no crying, get over it. (this is all coming from her screwy mother)  I wish she had gotten another addiction than religion from her alcoholism.  Honestly, she makes me ashamed to belong to the same denomination as she does.

I don't know how to explain it.  They had gotten a new piece of furniture in their house and I said to her screwy Mother, "that's so pretty"

Her Mother said, "this is what God does for you when you do the right thing"

Really?  I thought He would walk beside me and keep me but I didn't know he was a Santa Claus.   

Okay, I'll put the tree up.  I'll do whatever I can.  Thanks for letting me go on and on.  It hurts so much.
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: mom2 on November 07, 2009, 07:49:38 PM
J2B is right...
Go on with your life ! We have to go on... I stopped doing much of anything for the holidays until I realized she (D
IL ) wasn't giving anything up for us and so I stopped cheating myself and my husband.
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 07, 2009, 07:53:00 PM
I know...you'd think after 16 years, I could.  They go on and have a great time.  I am just stuck and lost without a family.  She will never know what she did to me. I hope I never give her the pleasure of knowing. 
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: just2baccepted on November 07, 2009, 08:41:45 PM
Quote from: mom2 on November 07, 2009, 07:49:38 PM
J2B is right...
Go on with your life ! We have to go on... I stopped doing much of anything for the holidays until I realized she (D
IL ) wasn't giving anything up for us and so I stopped cheating myself and my husband.

Yes! This is exactly how I feel as well.  You can't let someone literally steal your joy away from you.  Christmas is such a wonderful and joyful time of the year.  There's so many fun activities; carolling, Christmas plays and concerts(at church and even local schools), decorating, cooking, putting cute Christmas bows and bandannas on my dogs, looking at Christmas lights, baking goodies, parties and I could on on and on.  You pick and choose and enjoy yourself!

Chickie I have to be blunt if you don't' mind, but I really think you're way too much power to your DIL over your life and happiness.  I just wish I could change how you feel.  I know it must be awful but could you be giving this girl just too much power over your happiness.  you're giving her all the power.  I remember something my dad said to me when I was a kid, "you can't change how people act but you can change how you react to them."  I think that's so true.  I realize that its easier said than done but maybe you could try to work on how you react to DIL's slights to you.  I just can't imagine giving someone so much power over my emotional health like this.  I mean I do have moments when I feel upset about my MIL but I just can't let her disapproval of me ruin my life.  Life is short, be happy!
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: Pen on November 07, 2009, 09:03:52 PM
I think the extra difficulty for MILs is that we feel we've lost someone. DILs may have a hard time, but it isn't anything like losing a parent/child relationship. We ache for them, not quite the same as when they were babies but the way moms do forever. We put our best years into raising our kids; in some cases it took our health and our financial resources, too. We know we need to move on, but we still don't know what to do about that aching, empty space.
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: just2baccepted on November 07, 2009, 09:48:18 PM
Quote from: penstamen on November 07, 2009, 09:03:52 PM
I think the extra difficulty for MILs is that we feel we've lost someone. DILs may have a hard time, but it isn't anything like losing a parent/child relationship. We ache for them, not quite the same as when they were babies but the way moms do forever. We put our best years into raising our kids; in some cases it took our health and our financial resources, too. We know we need to move on, but we still don't know what to do about that aching, empty space.

I agree that the two don't compare and I know that I can't even begin to put myself in everyone shoes but I just hate to see someone in so much pain.  I know there's so much suffering in the world but it just makes me so sad.  I never realized until now how mothers feel about their adult sons. I always thought that once a child gets passed the cute stage then parents don't feel exactly the same but I was very wrong.   As my parents used to say when I'd have problems as a child, "if I could just wave a magic wand and everything would be okay." I wish I could do that for all of you.
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 08, 2009, 04:46:52 AM
Thank you, J2b, thank you to all of you, Penstamen, you said it and so did you, J2b, thank you.  I did wake up today, didn't want to but I did. 
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: mom2 on November 08, 2009, 11:55:36 AM
Penstamen,

You are so right; I know it would have to be hard to not be accepted into your DH's family and to feel like an outcast but the loss is much greater for a Mother ( her son ) and there is no closure. Our sons are still here but where? and how do we reach them? No one could have ever made me believe this could of happened in our family but here we are. I do wish there was an answer.

I know we can't cheat ourselves out of life but it sure is a lonely one.

Chickiebaby,
Try very hard not to let them know if and when they hurt you because that gives them satisfaction. I have cried myself to sleep many nights but they never knew.

I have noticed that lately I have said "they" instead of her; it's not all her fault, my son knows what he's doing and it's time I accept that.
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 08, 2009, 12:35:40 PM
You're right, Mom...that is the worst part.  Our sons are accepting this. No one could have made ME ever believe that we would be caught up in this horrible thing but we are.  "Your Mom and Dad are the best on earth" is what their friends used to say.

I can tell you, though, he was pushed ever so slowly into seeing us in another way.  There's no doubt in my mind about that.  That's what eats me up inside.  I don't know how she sleeps at night but she wants control and that's what she has, in spades. 

She controls me, my life, my heart, my everything. Congratulations, DIL. (let me re-name that term, "PEDIC" Pure Evil Dressed in Clothes.

I struggled all my life with an abusive childhood, the loss of my Mother and trying to gain self-esteem by having a great business, all by myself.  I would give every bit of that up in a second if only I had had a family. PEDIC destroyed me. 

I have asked myself why I was ever born, that's how bad she makes me feel. I know that I have gone as far as I can by myself. None of this means anything to me.  I never needed control...why do others?  Why do some people have to control someone else? 

How do I act at Thanksgiving?  I am a naturally funny person who other people like to be around. She turns me on "mute".  I can't think of anything to say.  In fact, she loves it when I'm silent.  She gives me dirty looks if I'm my funny self. 

I guess I just play with the kids?  Her kids are very nice...they don't understand "funny", though.  I have an appt. for a counseling session on the 19th.  I just hope and pray it helps. Where do you begin with someone new?  Too much to tell. 

Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: mom2 on November 08, 2009, 02:24:26 PM
Oh chickiebaby,
I think so much time has passed for us that I do feel like our son is to be faulted because he allows this, however, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that our DIL was at the root of all evil. I remember one time when I lowered myself to go to her AGAIN  I said " Your goal was keep my son and grandkids away from me and you know what ? I should shake your hand because you did a very good job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and I meant it too... she did an A rate job. Of course she denied it but I know exactly what she did. At least I did get the satisfaction of telling her off one good time. I used to like her but not now and our son, I do love him but don't like him anymore due to how he has allowed her to treat us and he has helped her out in doing it.

You know the part I have the hardest time with is how son can just worship her family..how can our sons do that knowing how badly their own mother and dad have been treated ??????? Don't they have any shame or guilt? I will never understand it.

Does counseling seem to help at all? Does your husband have any relationship with the son now? Has he ever tried talking to the son? just some things I am wondering..... Our son and his dad have 0% relationship now, I have never been to counseling and husband has told the son off on my behalf.




Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: mom2 on November 08, 2009, 02:31:54 PM
Chickiebaby,

I was wondering if it is an option to not have Thanksgiving with them? Maybe if you decline they might see that you are tired of their behavior. That's what I had to do because our DIL honestly believed that no matter what she dished out, I had to take it because of who she is. I just can't.
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 08, 2009, 02:56:38 PM
Mom, I did go to counseling and the Psychiatrist told me that son did not love me. I can't tell you what those words did to me.  It was like death. I couldn't find my way out of his office and dropped my cell phone on the way out.

This will be my third attempt...I did go to someone else who was great.  She left what she was doing, though and went to work for a company doing whatever it is she's doing there.  She told me that because my Mother died so early that everytime someone I love hurts me, I go right back to where I was at 7 years old.  That same feeling.  It is true too.  Makes you not want to love anyone.

This one on the 19th is through our church.  They have people right out of college who are practicing and getting their licenses.  I guess it can't hurt....hope she's not a PEDIC.

I can't imagine a young woman understanding all this from a mother's point of view but I'm going to try.

As far as my husband talking to son...yes, he did at the beginning. Son cried and cried, torn to pieces.  PEDIC glared at my husband, with her arms folded...the first person on earth who has ever done that to him. Most people adore him. He is one of those admired people who others want to be like. 

As far as not going to Thanksgiving?  I think that would be like making us miss out on the only FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMILY, even though it's pretend that we have.  At least they'll come to our funeral, huh? 

That's another thing that psychiatrist said to us.  "they will be at your funeral.  They (our sons) will not want the community to know how they are"

Lord! What a blow!!

Both sons are different towards us. Close DIL, in her mansion, goes after monied people....just sickening.  I get along with everyone but I like just plain 'ol people the most.

Distant DIL is not like that, I'll give her that. She has some nice friends but they are not "let's talk about feelings people"

In fact, none of the people she knows are that way. JUST ME!!  I'm a feeling talker and I'm a toucher and hugger.   If we're talking about the weather, I'm gone, I'm out of there.  You have reached the bottom of the barrel if you have to resort to that.  But, maybe I can understand that she doesn't do that, wasn't raised that way. A Mutoid raised her. Puke city. I made that word up, can you tell?

The other DIL is more like me....talks about feelings. Maybe I should try to rehearse how to not talk about feelings.

Anyone want to bet I can do that?  Okay, I can't.  Why go on living if you can't talk about feelings?   

 



Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: just2baccepted on November 08, 2009, 04:31:56 PM
Chickie - I'm so glad you made that appt to see a counselor.  But I know how you feel about having so much to tell and usually the counselor only gives you 45 minutes per session.  Just take a deep breath and pace yourself.  Maybe even take some notes before you go or make a bullet list of topics you want to cover.  Having notes might help you better remember what all you want to say especially if you get emotional or flustered.

In fact, she loves it when I'm silent.  She gives me dirty looks if I'm my funny self. 

Do you really need to placate her? No way!  If she doesn't like it when you're being your self, then go for it and be funny and laugh away and enjoy those other relatives!  Who cares what she thinks.

;D Here's where my evil little self comes out, but I know that my MIL complains that I have too many shoes or purses.  So you know what I do just to show her that her criticism's of me don't affect me, I make sure that I wear different pair of shoes AND have a different purse every time I see her.  Okay I have to admit that it feels darn good too. ;D
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 08, 2009, 04:42:01 PM
I love it J2b!!! Wear those perty shoes and purses.  For Heaven's sake! Why would anyone care what shoes you wore?  I don't get it. 

She must be looking for something to criticize you for...my gosh!
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: mom2 on November 08, 2009, 07:43:58 PM
J2B,

Are you serious?? shoes and purses? that's crazy !! If that was the only issue with my DIL then we wouldn't have any. I don't blame you and if I were you I'd take two pairs of shoes and change them while I was there!!



Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 08, 2009, 07:51:26 PM
me too....I think I'd take 3 pair and 3 different purses.  I'd look her in the eye each time I emptied each purse and put on different shoes throughout the meal or time with them.

(I'm all talk,  no bite)  It would be fabulous to do, though
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: just2baccepted on November 08, 2009, 09:11:08 PM
 :D  Those are really funny!  But that's exactly why  I do it. To show her no matter how much she disapproves of things we do like vacations or eating out, playing tennis while its hot, etc.  that I/we are still going to do them.  She tries to convince DH that vacations and eating out are too expensive and she actually tried to get him to not go play tennis b/c it was warm outside.  We were actually going to go at night.  I just think its a control issue.  She wants to have as much control over us as she can?  That's the only reason I can think of why she would try to influence what we do in our personal lives.  DH tries to be firm with her and tell her we're still going to do XYZ.  He's 40 years old, I just don't understand why she does this.
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: Pen on November 09, 2009, 05:10:22 PM
Yes, I am.
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 09, 2009, 06:19:17 PM
Let me try to reply to you.  Did you get this?  This new site is awful!! 
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 09, 2009, 07:26:58 PM
I was able to get on again....anyone get this???
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: luise.volta on November 09, 2009, 08:36:30 PM
I checked in and I see it. Sending love and blessings, Luise
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 10, 2009, 05:40:37 AM
I found your post, Anna.  I am trying to get used to this new site.  I have so many firewalls on my computer because of my business that I don't know if that's the reason I'm having so many problems or not.

Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: Invisible on November 10, 2009, 05:55:41 AM
Wow...so sorry you are having difficulty with your daughter. I can understand but only from the perspective of MIL. My son is dead. My daughter in law hates me but at least looks at me as a free baby sitter. I am not called grandma. My granddaughter was trying to call me "in-law" I had to explain I was her grandmother.

I have problems with my granddaughter misbehaving but she is acting out because she is being abused by her mother. I have NO communication between my DIL other than very superficial hello and goodbye. If I say or do anything else she screams ...I am controlling. I do not dare make a simple suggestion or comment on anything.

My granddaughter has caught on to the dysfunctional relationship between us. The situation is sad. We just have to grab on to the little opportunities to be a part of our grandchildren lives and leave the rest.
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: Gransy on November 24, 2009, 10:21:01 PM
Tommorow we head  to my daughters and son in laws for the holiday. Its been awhile sinceI first posted as I opened this discussion. Ive been to counseling and we are going to stay @ the Westin instead of thier home. If the grandchildren are disrespectful and are not disciplined for it we can leave and go back to the hotel. At least this gives me some power and clear boundries as to what Im willing to put up with. Will keep you all posted as I may need to "talk" over the next few days.
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: mom2 on November 25, 2009, 05:08:26 AM
Gransy,

Hotel is such a good idea, at least you have a safe, quiet place to go if it gets too much to bare. Good luck with everything !
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: Gransy on November 28, 2009, 12:40:18 PM
All went fairly well for the holiday only one issue came up. My husband asked the 8 year old if she wanted to go for a ride with him to pick something up. She asked her mom and was told no because the 3/12 year old could not go too. Some history===When we took their whole family to western Virginia to a timeshare we went to different attractions. Well, when caravaning to one of the attractions we took both grandkids in our car and my daughter and SIL went by themselves. Well it was a 20 minute ride of yelling, fighting and crying between the kids. My husband and I decided that from then on we would take only one child at a time and we would switch off kids in the cars so each would get a chance to ride with us. It was evident when the 8 year old was told she couldn't go for a ride because the 3/12 year old couldn't it was because according to my daughter it we are favoring the 8 year old.  By the way the 3/12 year old is still not potty trained.  We have been taking the 8 year old since she was 5 during the summer for 2-3 weeks. We enrolled her every year in swim lessons during her visit with us and one year took her to Disney World. We thought this was a great thing to do as this is quality one on one time with the grandparents and the younger one got one on one with her parents and it gave my daughter a little break in only having one child. When the younger one got old enough we would take one for 2 weeks than the other for 2 weeks and my daughter knew this was the plan. Well she informed me that when the younger one got old enough to visit us that we would have to take them both at the same time as it wasn't fair that the kids to not go together and to her as she would have to "sit around waiting in the summer for one to go then the other."  Note that my daughter doesn't work and the 8 year old is homeschooled. So it's both of them or none of them. We want one on one time and didn't want to change our quality time into 2 weeks of babysitting. She insist that they can't go separately. I told her that we are offering to take them separately and do some wonderful things with each but that we were not willing to take them both at the same time. My daughters dad and I have been divorced for a long time now and my husband and I are very active in my daughters family and do lots for the kids===summer, vacations, holidays, birthday's etc. My ex and his wife are not very active==they send cards-which is good but my daughter complains that she doesn't really see him very often and I know their not real active in their lives. For havens sake we do alot yet now it is all in jeopardy because we wont have them both at the same time. I told her that I'm not going to be emotionally blackmailed into taking both at the same time. Additionally, if shes feels taking one child at time is detrimental to their family life or not good for the kids then they will just have to spend their summers at home because we are only willing to take one at a time and we would come up and visit them there. Its a shame==I feel she cut of her nose despite her face. And how ungrateful.
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 28, 2009, 02:40:04 PM
What a mess, Gransy....I'm trying to think but I can't seem to come up with anything I'd do differently.  I guess the little one is getting to where she knows she's missing out and that's what your DD is saying.  Having the two of them is hard, I know. 

I wonder if anyone else has an idea....
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: mom2 on November 28, 2009, 08:30:12 PM
Gransy,

I agree with your decision. It is hard with two children, I know ; they constantly compete, argue and just pick at each other.
I think if you and Hubby are kind enough to take each child at different times then that's good enough.

I would not let the DD put the guilt trip on and make me give in.

                                                                                 Good luck
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: AnnieB on November 28, 2009, 09:24:07 PM
Yep, it makes sense to me as an older person and grandparent... one at a time is a good thing all round.  (I know spending half a day for two weeks with my 3 year old grandson just about did me in!) Quality time for you and each grandchild.  You can develop special relationships with each child, the children get a chance to feel kind of special and there's none of that sibling rivalry-discipline junk which (btw) we aren't supposed to deal with because we're not the parents. 

A side benefit should be that each child also gets to have special time with their parents and feel like an only child (but that of course is not for us to point out).

I imagine the wishful thinking from your daughter's viewpoint would be to have 2  weeks child free, something I know I enjoyed as a parent when my kids would be with their dad(s).

For that I would say she should send them off to camp together for a week or two.  ;D
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: Gransy on November 28, 2009, 11:02:13 PM
Thank you all for your support, suggestions and understanding. I think your right about my daughter wanting a 2 week parent vacation from her kids and she should send them to camp.  Its too bad she couldn't show some gratitude to us for inviting the kids down for some special fun and activities. I do not plan on mentioning it to her again and we do not plan on opening up the subject of the older child coming to visit this year. I'm not going to BEG her to let us treat them. I guess my husband and I will  plan to spend a nice quite summer together and if she wants come down and bring both kids with her to visit us for a few days--that'll be fine. Has anyone heard of a surrogate grandparrent network?
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on November 29, 2009, 04:46:19 AM
Dear Gransy,
I wonder if she'll come to her senses after she realizes what she's deprived her kids out of?  She is just cutting off her face to spite her nose? (whatever that saying is)

It's just sad....I do hope as the summer progresses that she will change her mind.  Let us know. :)
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: Gransy on November 29, 2009, 08:19:12 PM
Me too!!
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on December 15, 2009, 08:53:14 PM
Gransy,
I've been thinking about you and hoping you're okay.  Let us know.   :) Miss hearing from you.
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: cremebrulee on December 17, 2009, 12:16:25 PM
Quote from: mom2 on October 30, 2009, 08:19:18 AM
Gransy,

I can fully see where you are coming from. My problems are with the DIL and son and he ( our son ) disrespected us as bad as she did. I had to basically cut them from our lives because they were a constant heartache to me and all I did was cry. Every time I tried to mend things I got slapped in the face again

It's hard for some people to understand how, we as mothers, could just cut them from our lives but after years of trying and getting no where, I don't see another option and it couldn't be healthy for anyone to hurt and be stressed out of your mind all time. I, of course, love my son with all my heart and that will never change but when I feel guilty and think maybe I did the wrong thing, I start to think of the fact that they didn't care how they treated us and they still don't.

We love them but I don't think it's good for us to think so little of ourselves ( talking about myself ) that we let them, kids or no kids, treat us that way.

I hope you can find some peace of mind with all this but in the meantime we are here to talk and support each other.  Blessings

I cut them out of my life for two years...thought it would be healthier for all concerned...but it killed me not hearing from my son and GD?  So I caved in and asked if we could communicate again....

hugs to you for your strength and tough love...

I think sometimes, I'm to wishy washy....wish I could be more like you

Gransy, hang in there and know you have our support.
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on December 17, 2009, 12:43:31 PM
 that we let them, kids or no kids, treat us that way.

I like what you said here, Creme.  It's the truth...we let them, kids or no kids, treat us this way!!  We wouldn't allow anyone to treat them this way.  I think that's the hardest part.

I heard something this week...it meant so much to me.  A man talked about someone taking everything that meant anything to him away from him. I noticed that he had a new wife.  Obviously, the last time I had seen him, he had another wife...and she must have left him and that's who he was talking about....I think.

He talked about the bitterness that was eating him alive.  He said that he dreamed of every kind of scenario where he could destroy this person legally.

He said that it was making him sick, very sick.  He said he did not want to forgive this person but that he was getting sicker and sicker, physically and mentally.  He told about finally giving in and forgiving the person for his sake, not theirs.

His face was brighter and you could see a new person emerging.  I was shocked because I hadn't seen him in awhile.

I guess my point is that we have to forgive, not for them but for us so we can be whole.  There is no way it can be forgotten...no way but I think, if we want to live a healthy life, we have to explore ways to do it???

Oh!! I don't want to give up the bitterness!!  I'm like one of those punching bags that bobs up and down when hit and comes back up.  I do want to let go! 
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: Pen on December 17, 2009, 01:35:28 PM
I've been working on getting rid of my bitterness, and forgiving a certain person who I feel has wronged me, for years. Sometimes I feel successful, sometimes it's back to the beginning. I understand my inability to forgive this person could be killing me! As a wise person once said, "Bitterness is a poison pill we give ourselves hoping it will harm the other person." My hope is that one day soon I'll be free of it, too, and that everyone on this site has a peaceful soul.

When I think of myself as a queen bestowing forgiveness on someone (like a knighting ceremony with the saber tap to the shoulder) it feels right, like I'm choosing to forgive instead of doing it to give the other person a free pass. I'd forgotten all about this until you mentioned it, Chickie! Thank you for reminding me to keep working at this.

Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on December 17, 2009, 02:11:06 PM
It's so hard, isn't it Penstaman??  I don't want to let go of the bitterness but it is killing me!! 
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: 2chickiebaby on December 17, 2009, 03:24:57 PM
This is such a good thought when speaking of forgiveness: Corrie Ten Boom harbored such hatred, as you'd expect of her Nazi capturers but this is what she said:

Corrie Ten Boom, who survived a Nazi concentration camp during the Holocaust, said, "Forgiveness is to set a prisoner free, and to realize the prisoner was you."
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: greeneyes100 on December 23, 2009, 03:08:31 PM
I am going through the same thing with my daughter. Also my childrens father is a narcisstis we have been divorced 20 years but he is still the controller of the children They have no respect for me or others  It is a mothers worst nightmare to have children who dont care
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: cremebrulee on December 23, 2009, 04:40:33 PM
you gals, I feel so bad for all of  you...but, as you all agree, bitterness is poison to the soul...

I hope you all know, I don't hate my DIL...and I would forgive her in a heart beat if she'd just stop all this foolishness...

but, I gotta tell you, if God forbid, something would happen to my son...I don't know how I'd feel about her then....

When he goes back, I worry so...it's very frightening...and I think about all this bad blood between us....how I don't even know him any more...what we have missed out on...and how we yelled at each other at one time...I believe now, I'm more angry with him and his father, then I am with her?  At least I can understand why she is the way she is...but I can't understand his father or my son, for being so passive...and excusing all this ugly behavior.

Girls, hang in there...we have each other, and it's soothing to know that..we're like sisters yanno?
Title: Re: Difficult relationships:Grandchild
Post by: greeneyes100 on December 29, 2009, 04:38:27 AM
Good quote Chickybabe...I really like that one.  I truly do not hate anyone, neither do I wish harm on any person. I forgive but in doing so it does not mean I will befriend them or want to be around them I just do not have them in my life. No matter who they are.