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Stage One

This first stage should be called, laying the groundwork. You think everything is fine and you are completely unaware that the ultimate goal of the DIL is to separate your son from his family and friends. After all, brainwashing takes time and your son has to be convinced that he had the worst parents and upbringing in the world. She will start by tell him that his sister or brother was really the favorite in the family. She will make him think that he was picked on or didn’t have what his friends had. At this point, anything that your son brings up is used as a weapon to convince him of the terrible family he has.

Stage Two

You will start to see less of your son. The DIL will not let him out of her sight and will follow his every move. If he had friends, he doesn’t now. The only friends he has now are her friends. He is now seeing her family more than he sees his and if you call him, you are calling too much, and if you don’t, you don’t care or are not interested in whatever it is that they are doing. At this stage, you may start to see some anger toward you from your DIL. Your son doesn’t speak up to defend you because he now is starting to see things through her eyes. Maybe she is right and you, the son’s parents, really are bad.

Stage Three

This is where you are confronted with the issue; it’s the all out, knock down fight, or the call in the middle of the night telling you how bad you are. She has finally convinced your son that you are no good and you hate her. Even though you have done everything you can think of to get on her good side nothing you do is right. You know her likes and dislikes, yet you continue to do things that she doesn’t like. At this stage, you are walking on eggshells and anything you do is criticized.

Stage Four

You feel like you’re the worst parents in the world. She has finally convinced you that you are the problem. You feel so bad and the guilt is overwhelming. You are probably grandparents at this stage and not only has your DIL alienated your son from you, you are starting to see the same thing happening with your grandchildren. By this time, if your son had siblings, they and their families are no longer speaking to your son and DIL. Or, in some cases, the sons are driven so far apart by jealous DIL's that they are no longer brothers in the same sense. You are just hanging on because you really want to be a part of your grandchildren’s lives.

Stage Five

Your DIL has finally convinced your son that they need to move. She may use the excuse that jobs or schools are better in the new location. Her ultimate goal to have your son all to herself has almost been realized and she is just waiting to deliver the final blow. Any and everything you do or don’t do will be use as ammunition to deliver the deathblow, i.e. complete separation.

If you have a DIL, please know that you are not alone and it is not your fault. It has taken a long time and we are still not over the pain. Reconciliation is probably not an option if you have gone through all five stages. You may have even gone through Stage Three a number of times at this point. I suppose that some type of family counseling may help. If anyone has gone through this type of problem and has sought counseling, I would love to hear the outcome.

I have seen those exact dynamics at play more than once. How painful to be the target of another person's insecurity. There doesn't appear to be any logic, no place for negotiation...no defense. To be systematically discredited must be totally demoralizing. 

I have also seen MILs who similarly set out to discredit and estrange loving DILs with the express purpose of ending the marriage and "retrieving" their sons.

Wherever there is a pathological need for supremacy, tragedy seems likely follow.

Who has seen successful intervention? How did that work? Did it last? 

My thanks and gratitude to Luise for caring and for opening this forum to heart broken MILs. You are such a blessing. There really are no words to express the deep sorrow of a mother's heart when a beloved son is lost to a painfully insecure and/or controlling DIL.

I was buried in soul-searching guilt and felt very much alone until I googled the simple yet not so uncommon phrase, "My son hates me". Yes it still hurts, but after 11 long years it's comforting to know I'm not hated alone.

As "hated" MILs unite in this safe little place, I hope we can find solace from our pain as we love and support one another. Mothering is hard work. Maybe it's time for the nurturers to be nurtured. (This "old rose" is tired.)  :'(

I was amazed when I read the stages you posted, Prissy. I last spoke to my 32 year old son over a year ago, just after my husband was diagnosed with advanced cancer. Weary of walking on Stage three egg shells, I tried one last time to relay a message to my son after my husband's 11 hour surgery. I emailed my DIL a second time to ask if she got the message to my son - I had asked that he please call as soon as he got it. Her 2nd reply, "Yes, I already told you he got the message." Not a word more when she had been emailing daily to ask for updates. (My son was working graveyard at a secure site, no cell phones.) A few days before the surgery, my son did call and we had the first heart to heart talk since he married and moved away. There was reconciliation in his voice, in his heart. I FELT it. After that 2nd email from DIL, I'm ashamed to admit that I threw all of those egg shells (years worth of her nasty words) at her and said "No More"! She of course fired right back, then slammed the door tight. She closed her email address. I was at that point exhausted and still in shock. My husband's cancer turned my already topsy world upside down - but I should have held my tongue. After the email exchange, I left a message on my son's phone and told him I was sorry about having to draw a long overdue line between DIL and I. He knew she and I had problems - he used to call after she'd sent one of her ugly emails and say, "I'm sorry she was mean again, mom". I always said "It's okay, I understand and I love her very much." ...egg shells. If only I had walked on them awhile longer. I haven't heard my son's voice since before my husband's surgery. I'm so afraid I'll never hear it again.

Mother's Day came and went silently. I spent the day in my sewing room crying. His birthday is coming up. I have a beautiful, simple card I want to tuck a little money in and send just to say "I Love You and I remember today". Should I send it? I just don't know what to do. Losing my son, the fear I have of losing my husband is too much to bear.

To Rose: I would send the card. Not with any fixed hopes but with endless love. You are carrying so much on your shoulders. My heart goes out to you. We aren't always wise. We stumble and fall. We react and fight back. Then we look back at our humanness and see what transpired as a result...and we can't go back and fix it. No one should have to attempt perfection. It's unattainable. Forgiveness is needed and it's sorely lacking. 

When my eldest son died I got a horrible letter nine days later from my DIL regarding how evil I was. That was nine years ago and I still occasionally run the "If only" tape. If only I hadn't responded. If only I had stepped back and let her bombard me in her grief (with no sensitivity at all from her for my grief.) If only I had been calm and able to rise above it.

We do our best. Sometimes it's exemplary and sometimes it's not. It's still our best.

Blessings, Luise

Dear Old Rose,

I wish I could say or do something to help ease the pain you have in your heart...but I want you to know I am filled with gratitutde and admiration that you would share this to help others like me cope. I have been the "Evil" MIL ever since my sons marriage eight yrs ago and have gone through all of Prissy's "stages" and have been searching for someone who would understand (without having to pay $100./hr)! I'm not sure how we learn to live with this yet but my guess is after finding you and this website...that writing and sharing is closer to anything out there. Please keep writing and know there are others who share the same pain.  millie

Hi Everyone and Welcome Millie,

Nice to connect with you again.  :) I was thinking as I read your post how it feels to be understood. To be heard is absolutely necessary for most of us...and to be "known" through deep understanding, respect and shared experience is priceless.

When Prissy first wrote, she asked if anyone had tried counseling. I just wanted to comment here that it seems to me that we would need to have all parties concerned willing to work through the issues at hand for that to work. Change is possible in that venue but what we are up against usually isn't that malleable. For that reason, counseling often is about acceptance rather than resolution because those who need it most, don't see the need for it.

For me, having it (whatever "it" is) be how it is often stops me in my tracks. All of my energy seems to go into wanting things to be different. I have just been stopped that way by the death of my best friend on Thursday. I will post about that under another heading...but it seems to me that it's the same basic problem. Until the people who have turned on us and who have successfully rationalized their behavior to themselves and others, (thus making resolution impossible,) have a change of heart...it seems like there has been a death of sorts of the relationship itself. Luise

I was shocked when I read the stages -I have two daughters in law -and one is a dream - I love her like my daughter - the other is typical of the described DILs -She has completed all the stages, and is now looking for a home in another state.  She did the huge blow up on Christmas morning in my home - yelling, screaming at me that I am a b..... -I had planned an amazing Christmas, including the arrival ofSanta Claus, I gave their daughter a birthday party -worked my fanny off - and she started yelling at me on Christmas morning - ruined the Christmas for everybody, and my son said nothing -

He is a battered husband, and she rules the roost.  It is bizarre because in order to keep peace, and have open dialogue with my son, I met them in a park several months later, and she was supposed to apologize - I said "What can I possibly do to avoid this ever happening again" and she flat told me that it was all my fault - there was no apology.

I walk on eggs -as many of the other MILs - I avoid them -although I loe my son and his daughter - but if they move, we will probably never see them.

this was amazing to read - Patti

Welcome, Patti. I, too, have had both kinds of daughter in laws. How confusing! When you get a chance, I'd like you to read my story about my own mother in law under the Stories thread. What a gal!  ;D

Well I've read some of the posts here and I feel for those who have to deal with a woman who is so "cruel" to you.

I wanted to ask a question to the MILs.  What are you expecting/want from your son's wife?  Why do you expect/want this from her? 

I'm very curious because I do not get along with my fiance's mother and I can't figure out how to get this woman to respect me as I would her, not as a mother, but as an adult that I respect.

This all began over when my fiance and I told her I was pregnant and she asked me if I tried to get pregnant to trap her son.  From that point on things went down hill.  I haven't been perfect and I know that my actions and reactions to her havne't been the best.

When I met my fiance's mother, I was going through a hard time with my own mom and my FH mother has tried to be my mother ever since.  She does things like ask my if I want something done or if I need her help.  I would tell her no and she would do it anyway (after my fiance ok'd it).  My fiance has since stopped allowing his mother to do things after I say no. She is very clingy with my children.  She acts exactly how she did with my fiance when he was a child, like she the mother.  She has to go to their school 3-4 times a week and has tried to sign permission slips for field trips, and she tells my children what they will be doing without talking to us. 

I know some of these things are silly but they do bother me.  She tries to give me advice and she feels like I should tell her whats going on in my life.  She thinks we should be friends.  I haven't spoken to her in about a year because my fiance and I seperated last year and I would call her just because at that point I had made a conscious effort to get closer to her.  I helped with her suprise b-day party, took her shopping and other things.  We broke up a few weeks after her b-day.  Well after a couple weeks of talking to my FH mother, I got the feeling she was almost happy we weren't together anymore so I stopped calling her.  She started saying I hated her because I stopped calling her and I was going to take the kids from her.  I have never stopped her from seeing my children even when her son and I were arguing. But I have said some harsh things to my fiance and he would tell her what I said to him so she would assume I was saying it to her and then yell at me.  Well I snapped,  I was tired of her saying that I would take the kids away from her.  Last summer, I had my mother watching my kids while I worked and my FH mother wanted to take the kids over night.  I told her no and she once again went to her son and she laid a guilt trip on me.  Well I caved but then I realized I didn't have to cater to her. So when she came to get the kids I didn't answer my door (childish, I know but it was a sort of stand against her and her guilt trips.  She has done that many, many, many time before.)  SHe began beating at my door, and yelling through my windows and questioning my children through the window.  I told her to leave, I was tired of her getting her way and she called me pyscho.  I called her and gave a big piece of mind (this was my first time EVER yelling at her after 7 years of being with her son).  These were things I had been holding in for a long time.  In the midst of this she said I still think you were trying to trap my son and you see it didn't work.  That was it for me.  I haven't had any contact with her since.  No phone calls, no visits for any reason at all and it has been a calm year for me. 

My fiance and I are getting married in less than 6 months and I don't want to be her friend but just civil.  I don't know how to do this with her.  Maybe I'm exaggerating but I do want to be civil with her.

I understand the her tryng to welcome me into her family, but there comes a point when it starts to feeling like an intrusion.  I had to prove to my own mother I was capable of taking care of my self and that was by not asking her for help or advice until I had a handle on my life.  Now I ask my mom for advice on everything.  I just want my FH's mother to understand I have someone in my life who is my mother and I also have friends.  She is my FH mother and she did a GREAT job of raising her and she is a wonderful grandmother to my children.  How do I let her know understand she wants to help but tell her I'm capable and need her to respect me as she would want to be?

Dear Bride2Be:

I'm still new at this (discussion) due to the fact computers hate me...but I have to agree with Prissy....this woman sounds sad and yes desperate.  Please try to find away to set some boundaries and allow her to spend some time with the children.

As long as you can figure out what you will take and not take ahead of time she will eventually go along with what you want as long as your consistant and stick to your guns.

I can't understand how this MIL could be so cruel to you, you have really tried to befriend her and ingratiate yourself to her..if only I had been so lucky to be your MIL!

I've never stopped her from seeing the kids, even over that last year.  I haven't had any contact with her at all.  She still hovers over my children.  I haven't been the best to her simply because when she would push me for more time with her or to be close, I would push back and shut down.  I won't let her talk to me as if I'm her child.  How do I explain this to her?  How do I tell her I'm willing to be civil as long as she doesn't treat me like she would her child, or expect the same reaction her son might give her? 

I guess this all goes back to my original question, what do MILs expect/want from their son's wives?? Why do you expect/want this from her?

As my name suggests, I have lost one of my sons to a DIL that made him choose between us.  The stages listed at the beginning of this post are pretty accurate but I went from beginning to end within 4 months.  I never had a chance to get to know my DIL before the cut me out of their life and really don't think I did anything to deserve having to greive for my son for 2 1/2 years as well as never being allowed to know or even meet my only grandchild.

Bride2be - I love my my son very much and wish my DIL had tried even a portion of what you have tried, and I am sorry your efforts have not been appreciated.  Sounds like there are some boundary issues, and there are articles and books that deal with that and might be helpful.

I can tell you this, I wished my DIL had just made it clear what she wanted from me.  I may not have liked it, but I would have at least had the option to either accept it or not.  Believe me some contact with my son would have been much preferred over having him dead to me.

Hi,

I have been reading this topic and it reminds me of myself sometimes. I still get stuck occasionally in thinking, or maybe it's feeling, that my son's issues are also mine. It's like I can't discern a boundary. ..maybe because from heart to heart there is none. That doesn't and shouldn't necessarily translate into no boundaries in the physical universe. He's a grown man, just as I'm a grown woman and we both  struggle with "life" at times because we are both still learning and growing. That's what life offers us. However, the mother in me sometimes wants to help when the last thing the grown man in him wants is mothering. And I have to admit that I have been known to bristle when he seems to think he knows what is best for me.

Each MIL is unique, as is each son and each DIL (and future DIL.) It sounds like you want your future MIL to be different that she is. I certainly would, too, but that's probably never going to happen. You probably can't tell her how you want her to be and expect much in the way of change. Some women get stuck in the authority that comes naturally and necessarily with raising children and refuse to give it up when it becomes obsolete and even intrusive. It's like it has become part of them, or something. When grandchildren come along, things can get worse instead of better.


What you can do is talk with your FH regarding the tales he has carried to her and the times he has vetoed you in her favor to see if you can get a better level of cooperation from him. It doesn't sound like there is a safe place in your relationship where you can say what you think and feel about his mom's obvious interference, (as in the school stuff), without his taking it to her. That is called triangulation and it will keep everyone stirred up in endless he said/she said brush fires that can never be put out.

Mutual respect between the two of you and a united front is something that could make a world of difference. It won't change his mother's concept that your business is her business, but it could bring you a more peaceful environment in which to decide how to live with a door between you and his mom that is not closed but is not open, either. Your home is understandably your domain. It it can be really complex that you are marrying someone that she feels still belongs to her domain in some way. Touchy stuff.

Your future MIL did a great job of raising your FH and it sounds like he's the guy for you and that you two are working out your issues and going forward.  Respecting his mom may continue to be difficult for you if she can't find it in her heart to respect you. It's very hard for most of us to give what we are denied.

For me, the single most difficult task in my 82 years has been and still is having people and situations be the way they are. They are not under my control...but how I react to them is. I give to family and friends (and situations), what I give...and then I am astounded and perplexed when they don't always give me the same thing back. I often get something back that I don't understand; that doesn't fit my expectations. Then, momentarily at least, I don't see my expectations as the issue. It is so much easier to see my family and friends as flawed. This doesn't always happen, I can see progress...but I have a long way to go. I get so tired of my own limitations.

It sounds like your future MIL wants you to be different than you are. At the same time, you want her to be different than she is. Can you step back and get what kind of am impasse that is? You may never get her to see that's the case but if one person pulls out of a conflict, it loses its energy.

Blessings, Luise

I appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions.  I feel bad for you Lostone.  I have never asked that my FH or my children didn't see his mother only that I didn't have to see her.

I do want to say this with all sincerity, MILs, sometimes your love, your time, your wisdom is unwanted by your DIL.  This DOES NOT mean you aren't respected for being the mother of the man we new brides choose to marry.  This DOES NOT mean that you are a hated or an unwanted person.  We young brides and mothers just want to create our own lives, become the women of our own home and create our own traditions.  You must have done something right if your son has a woman who is willing to stick by his side, he must be worth sticking too.  We only want to be respected and acknowledged also, but not as the woman who is "stealing" or "taking" your son away from you.  Most of the time we don't understand those feelings because we feel like we're being persecuted for loving your son and wanting to create a life outside of our original families with him. Always remember you have a special part in his heart as the woman who raised him, loved him unconditionally and still cherishes him and that place can never be taken.  Also remember we don't want to "take" him from you, we just love him differently than you do and it requires a different dynamic to be formed between you and your son.

Thank Ladies!!! 

I only have a few minutes so I will try to start this and may have to finish later.

My oldest son, was a rebellious teen, bull-headed, and determined to live the way he wanted to live.  It took everything I had to keep him in school and out of jail but he made it through it.  Even better we made it through it and therefore our relationship was even more dear to me.  I was so proud of him getting his life back together and going back to college, working, basically finally growing up, when my DIL (his girlfriend) walked back into his life for the 2nd time.  The first time was fast and furious and when it ended I thought my son was heart broken and I thought he would hit rock bottom, but he didn't.  I think being with her made him want to prove something to himself (or maybe her) and he did.  I had to pinch myself when he would call me from school to tell me about what he was doing because he seemed happier than he had in years.  When he told me that DIL (girlfriend at the time of course) wanted to try again, I was scared for him getting hurt again but I told him it was his decision and that being far apart (milage wise) might help them to keep it slow and get to know each other better.  Within a few months it became apparent that soon she would be my DIL and I was happy for the both of them.  She was freindly to me, even seemed to enjoy being around me.  Both her mother and I live in the same city so when they would come to town I often invited her mother to come over for dinner so that DIL could spend more time with her mother while I would have a chance to see my son.  My only fear was that my son would quit school to be with her and he did quit with only 4 months left to graduate.  I was disapointed and told him so.  I told him that I thought he would regret it later and when "life" started happening it would get harder and harder.  I "NEVER" said not to go be with her, I just wanted him to finish.  DIL was getting her Masters Degree at the time and my son was only on his Associates, but she told him "something had to give".  It didn't make sense that someone who thought so much of education would want him to quit, but that was their business not mine.  My son said "Mom I know you just want me to be happy" to which I cried and thanked him for understanding my concern.  I also told him I would never mention it again and didn't.

Keep in mind that I did not feel I had any influence over this strong-willed young man since he was 15.  I always respected and liked his choices in friends.  All of which still give me hugs when they see me.  So I never dreamed that this sweet beautiful accomplished young woman would bring anything but goodness to our family.

I was wrong.  Within the next few months she talked my son into getting rid of his car, his cell phone, his education, his career, most of his friends, and then me and my whole side of the family.

As far as I know the only thing I did was, when I found out he came to town for the weekend visiting her family and didn't even call to say hi, or drop by for 5 minutes, I told him it hurt my feelings.  He called me back 2 days later and basically said, that since I didn't seem to appreciate the times I did see him (once in 3 months) that to teach me a lesson he would not be seeing me for Christmas.

He did come by the day before Christmas and we talked, cried, hugged, and promised to never shut each other out.  That was the one of the last times we talked and the last loving hug I will probably ever have from him...

Gotta go - more later if anyone is still interested.

Am I really here? (going to try the "reply" button" anyway...Prissy sent you a long one few days ago and don't know where it went...(cyberspace)? it was under "quick notes" and I started to ramble so it wasn't so "quick".

some background, my sons been married 8 yrs the last time I talked to DIL was a yr ago. two days before her third child was due. (May14) mothers day was May10 and not a word from them (or my B;day in Feb) but she called me the day AFTER Mothers day to ask if I could babysit my grandaughters (now 5 and 3) so she could take HER mother out for mothers day! (no mention of mine) something snapped (this has been going on for 8+ yrs mind you) and I very calmly told her I didn't think I could watch the girls anymore as this felt way to phony to me and I didn't think it was healthy for any of us..then I said "Do you think (my son) will call us to let us know when the baby is here? Her answer?  I DON'T THINK SO!  so I paused then stated "well, I guess I knw where we stand don't I"? she hung up. haven't heard anything since. I cannot for the life of me figure out what we did and there has been no communication from them...my husband wants nothing to do with them...my daughter (who has been written off as well) has decided she has to move on...and I'm am still stuck. better, (especially since finding this site) but still can't sleep at times..and always...always....trying to think of a way to reach them... I've thought of leaving a note on my sons car but he is in law enforcement (part of problem)? and is in a secured parking lot at work..doesn't leave for work till 11am so I know if I leave it at the house she will see it first and who knows if he will see it (don't think he knows half of what shes done to us) since the baby (boy) was born May 14 a yr ago I have been getting all kinds of junk mail from baby mag's, similac, breast feeding help anything pretaining to new moms addressed to me! talk about turning the knife.... all this and they live 5 mins from our house...I drop presents off for Christmas and birthdays on thier porch but never get a reply and I'm ok with that now...but I worry someday the children won't appreciate it or worse yet only think of me as a soft touch when they need something....ilt seems he has divorced himself from his entire family...uncle, aunt, sister...We knew she was trouble before they were married and my husband told me someday she would hold grandchildren against me so I ate dirt for 8 yrs! can't do it anymore...but still....

Hi Millie and Lostone: Thank you, Millie, for hanging in there on this new Forum. It's hard sometimes to learn how to use new (to us) software. I am flopping around, too, but not as much as I did on day one!

You stand up for yourself in a moment of either strength or weakness (I find it difficult to tell which sometimes) and then the door slams. I know the feeling. Then the "would of...should of...could of" stuff that plays in your head starts. Day in and day out. Week after week. Has it gotten to months and/or years yet? I think we need to keep remembering the good times. Those precious times with our kids that we'll never forget. I keep reminding myself that no one can take them away. They happened. We really were great moms and we had  great kids! 

I find deep comfort in connecting with other women who care and in hearing about how they have taken their natural nurturing instincts and put them to use. For instance, one lady has signed up for foster care to fill the void she thought her grand kids would occupy. Another one wrote that she is feeling much better and now has a poodle! I kid you not!  :D We have to grieve and it feels to me like experiencing the compassion of others who know what this is all about...can help us heal. Our lives aren''t over. Some of our expectations may be dead but we're not. We still have a lot to give. 

Blessing to each and every one of us! Luise

I'm posting this under our most active list just to remind everyone that we have other places we can write. Just for fun I have posted under "Success Stories" and "Poems." When you get a chance...take a look. Blessings, Luise

Dear Prissy and Luise...

My heart thanks you two so very much....I'm finding it alittle easier to sleep at night since I've found this forum.

The people closest to me I'm sure are burned out and have run out of words and now are just uncomfortable with it I think, as they have no explanation either.

Now I think your right Luise in that we need to find our joy in life through other areas and seek it where we can find it.

I've practically adopted little neighbors I have about the same age as my grandchildren.(.they are ALL so dear aren't they)? and the more time I spend outside in my dirt (gardening) the better I feel (my "dirty therapy") I guess we take care of ourselves the best we can....

Thank you both again so much for being part of my "recovery" (if there is such a thing)!

When I first started going through all of this, I was absolutely lost.  Though it felt like a death, I didn't know how to grieve, well wishers would say "he will come around" or "at least he is not dead" or my favorite "be grateful you have 2 other sons" (like grieveing for their brother meant I wasn't grateful).  It took me over a year to seek counseling where I was finally told that what I was experienceing was like a death except there would be no closure.  I was also reassured that what had happened was not my fault and that I had been a good mother.  Funny how I was the one being mistreated and I so easily took the blame.  Not that it changed one thing because the intent was not to punish me for something I did, but to banish me for being my sons mother.  I don't think this is normal behavior, and God willing my other 2 sons will meet women with more confidence.

More of the story...  When my son dated DIL the first time, he was not in school and did not have a steady job, and needed to grow up a lot.  DIL was putting a lot of pressure on him to move to be with her.  He would not go because he did not have the money or a job and did not want her to take care of him.  Her mother who told my son she liked him also told him that "he was not good enough for her daughter."   That if he moved to be with her, she would probably quit school and "FINISHING COLLEGE WAS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING!"  Flash forward to the second time they dated and I am considered enterferring when I try to encourage my son to finish with only 4 months left to go (which included the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays).

After moving there, he started calling me less, and when we did talk, he had less to say.  I knew something was not right but assumed that I was just being oversensitive.  At Thanksgiving, DIL was a bit more stand offish, but again I didn't put much thought into it.  Until the phone call where I learned they had been to town, leading to my being punished.

When he stopped by at Christmas, we talked about how he was upset that I didn't support him leaving school.  I was shocked and said, that was your decision and I promised you to let it go and I did.  He seemed more upset with me at that time about it than he did when I originally said it.  He also told me that DIL didn't think I liked her and that we were rude to her.  Again in shock, I asked why would she think that.  Then he preceded to tell me a couple of things like my neice was rude to her at Thanksgiving and I looked at my son and said "that neice was not even there, don't you remember she had gone to a ball game."  He then said a few other things that were just not true.  So I said "tell me one thing you saw me do or heard me say that was rude or mean to her".  He sat back for a moment and his eyes went blank and he started shaking his head and said - "I don't know."  I told him that I would like to see DIL and let her know that if I had done anything to make her feel like I did not like her, that I was sorry.  My son was relieved and called her to try to get us to meet.  This sweet, calm, quiet, woman went beserk, I didn't hear what she said but I heard her yelling at my son so I left the room.  About 10 minutes later he came out and said, Mom I've got to go, I love you, but I am going to have to fix this, and then left.

I tried calling and left messages,  I asked DIL to tell me when and where and I would drop everything to come and try to work this out.  I sent her cards telling her how sorry I was that I had not shown her how much I thought of her and how happy I was that they were back together.  No response.  Then I found out through my mom that my son had called to tell her that he was getting married.  Coincidentally on the one day he knew I could not come.  My mom told him that he knew that day would not be possible for me and his response was that DIL's family had already gotten plane tickets and it couldn't be changed.  Now if he wanted me there, don't you think he would have asked me before inviting her whole family?  Anyway my Mom told him that though it would break her heart there was no way she could stand up with him while he was breaking her baby's heart (me).  I later tried to get my Mom and family to go, and only managed to pursuade his brothers and dad.  The rest of the family was too appauld to go.  So they have been cut out of his life as well.

I made one last attempt to talk to him, by showing up at his doors with flowers in my hands.  He met me with a hug, and I could tell he was relieved.  I asked if we could talk and DIL reluctantly agreed.  I told them I didn't expect them to change the wedding date, all that mattered was that we work out the issues.  DIL denied any issue only stating it was my son.  He then again (sounded like for her approval) again told me how I disrespected his decision to quit school.  I again said, you are right it was not my place and I am sorry.  I cried and begged for a second chance and left feeling like nothing changed but also satisfied that I had done everything I could and now it was up to them.

Later my son told his dad, that he thought things went really well.  That he and DIL were both in good moods as they left to go meet her mother.  Later that day while riding on the interstate with her mother they got to berating my son as to why he didn't slam the door in my face, "didn't I understand that they did not want me in their life?"  He either was trying to defend me or himself when they pulled over on the side of the interstate and told him to get out.  DIL came around to the passenger side opened the door and told him to get out, while her mother got out of the back seat and into the driver's seat.  My son is 6'8" and they would not have gotten him out of the car if he had not chosen to get out of the car.  But he did, and they left him stranded there without a phone and not near an exit.  He managed to hitchhike back to his dad (over 100 miles) with a truck driver.  She nor her mother tried to contact him or anyone else to even see if he was dead or alive for 2 days.  The third day my son called her and begged her to take him back.  She agree under one condition - which led to him calling me and telling me to stay out of his life.

I know it is hard to believe that there is nothing else too it, but honestly it happened so fast that I didn't have time to do that much.  I do know that I was never disrepectful or mean to my DIL.  Though I dissagreed with him quitting school I did support his decisions.

I will say this though, when my ex told me that my DIL literally made my son a believer of "my way or the highway" that she must be pregnant.  Six months later my beautiful precious granddaughter was born.  I hear my son is a loving father and plans on making his mariage work no matter what.  A statement you seldom hear from a happily married newlywed.  I pray that he can, and that his family is blessed, for I fear he has a hard road ahead of him.

This website is great for me!!!  I get to see the thoughts of a mother in law when she's not getting along with her DIL.  I really feel bad for those who have to be mistreated by their DIL.

From my personal experience, I have learned that I can tell when my FMIL would have negative feelings towards me.  Even if she doesn't express them to me,  I can tell and it's hurtful and difficult to deal with regardless of the reason.  It's even more hurtful when she would give me her "love" and "warm" feelings and get angry when I don't respond the way she thought I should.  It's hard to except someones love when you know how they truly feel about you.  I don't love people just because of what they do for me, I love them because I know they genuinely care for me regardless of who I'm with (her son).  My FMIL has shown me numerous times that her loyalty is to her son and my kids and only tries to love me to show my kids that she cares.  Not my type of love.  I wish I had a MIL who wanted to care for me, not mother me and over indulge herself in my life.  I wish I had a MIL who would be there for me when I asked and step back when her help isn't needed.  I wish my FMIL would have known to back off in the beginning and even now, maybe things would be different.  From day one she has forced herself on me and it's hard to care for her when she expects the same love she gets from her son but from me.  I don't wish anything bad on her simply because it would crush my FH and I'm not going to call her names because that's just silly.  I just wish she would realize her son isn't a little boy anymore.  All the stories of how my FH used to think she was the alpha and omega of his world are great but, reality is, he's grown now.  As a man he is expected to grow up and find a wife and build his own life.  His mother WILL ALWAYS be the first woman he loved but she won't be the last and the intensity of that love doesn't change, it's just not the priority anymore.

I really like this website for some reason.  I'm not here to bash any MIL but to gain more understanding as to why MILs feel so strongly that their DIL should love them or feel some strong feeling toward them.  I really want to have a civil relationship with my FMIL.

Prissy - I know you understand how I feel as I understand where you are coming from as well.  Believe it or not - we are DIL's as well and though my MIL was opinionated and never menced words it never occurred to me to be anything but respectful.  That is not to say I used all her advice, but I listened.  I never thought she meant to harm me or put me down.  I grew to love her and it meant a lot to me to hear that she bragged about me as a wife and mother.  In fact maybe I have been living in a dream world, but I never knew anyone that actually cut their family out of thier lives.

Bride2be,  You sound like a wonderful DIL and I applaud you for trying to learn and understand.  I hope to do the same.

Bride2B...when you get a chance, read what I have written under our "Success Story" heading. I have written about my own mother in law. I think you might enjoy it. It is really wonderful to have you on this site!  ;DLuise

I LOVE it Prissy!  perfect example...!

Please, please remember that there are also wonderful DILs out there, too. Ones that wouldn't relate to that conversation at all. This is not airy-fairy stuff, I have one of those. Of course I have had the other variety, too. But we come with the same variations...great MILs and MILs that give us all a bad name when we don't deserve it.
Perceptions...how real they look and we forget that the person who does the perceiving, is the one that makes it up...not the one perceived! ::)

Ok guys,

I have prolem to run by you...I need advise...perspective...wisdom...whatever you've got togive...

just found out last night my grandchildren are getting baptized at their church on the 31st from a friend that works there...Do I go?

I'd have to face her family and probably see them shuffle the kids away from me...but part of me wants to go just so my son can see me there. and it IS a public place (and the church I USED to attend)

I thought I'd just go to hand him a card with some money in it for the children and leave.....but part of me is scared as well...ACK! the possibilities for rejection again! what if he doesn't take the card? what if her or her mother says something mean (her mothers an even bigger whack job)! My husband won't go with me, neither will my daughter..I could bring my best friend or my sister-in-law but I think I should do this alone for some reason...I'm afraid my son will think Oh heck!  hes going to think what he wants anyway isn't he..? or just talk about me later with the DIL and agree with her...something that bothers me is we always taught him to "NEVER, never give up"       Why should I?!   WHAT WOULD THE TEAM DO?

I saw my son, DIL, and grandchild at Church one Sunday.  They were in town visiting her mother, and she was holding and playing with gdaughter through the whole service.  I couldn't keep my eyes off of her or my son, and just knowing they did not want me to come up to them ripped my heart out.  I sat there and cried through the whole service because to get up and leave would have caused an even bigger scene.  The sermon that day was about forgiveness and how when we choose not to forgive it keeps us from experiencing the full blessings God has for us.  He also said "so if there is someone in your life that just the mention of their name sends you over the edge, you need to forgive them."  I guess the sermon fell on deaf ears.

All of that to say, IMHO, going might be harder on you than you might imagine, and taking care of yourself is more important than seeing your son.  If it were me and I felt up to that challenge I would probably stay in the background, take a picture, get a keepsake (such as a program) and take it home and put it in a scrapbook for my grandchild.  This day is about her/him and causing a scene (even if not the intent) could just serve as more reasons to validate their behavior.

Boy, that's a tough one. I think I would probably stay away from the service and not take the chance of adding my heartbreak to the mix.

(These things are always so difficult to imagine. How do we really know what we would do?)

I think I would set aside that time and try to create my own acknowledgment of what the whole thing represents by going someplace quiet and lovely like my room or a garden spot or a park. I think I would sing a hymn either in my head or out loud to commemorate the occasion and I probably would take my bible and kiss it lovingly, sending that kiss to the child's cheek. I might also take a pad of paper and write about how much my caring means to me and offer it up with my prayers.

The only experience I have had that might relate to yours is when my son's father was dying. He was on life support and my children and grandchildren had gathered around him. His second wife told my kids that I was welcome if I wanted to come. (Which I think was amazing.) I thought about that, and I realized that I was really an outsider and that they all had enough to deal with when they ended life support without having to cope with the dynamics of my grief (and probably guilt.)

So, I went to my little retreat and did my best to "spend some time with him." I sang and prayed and wrote. Later, when I attended the funeral, it felt complete to me.

The circumstances are nothing alike but having a "surrogate-service" might be worth considering.

Blessings, Luise

Thank you girls,
there is so much wisdom here. I'm not sure what I will do yet I've been mulling Prissys idea over in my head off and on all day...
Luise, I'm not sure if I could follow through with your idea, I'll have to give that some thought as well I don't want to create any drama honest I don't! but at the same time...its important to me that my son knows I know...you know?  or is that just retaliation..? I don't think so, but I'm trying to figure out why its so important to me that he knows I know.  I think its my way of reminding him I'll always be around (5mins away)?! maybe I see it as just another opportunity. the hope never ends does it?!

Well, you could send him a card...that would let him know that you know, right? All I am suggesting is that you may be making it harder on yourself, if not others, by trying in any way to be present at the event, even as an observer.

As horrible as it sounds, they have the right to lives their lives as they choose. Someone reminded me recently, when I wrote that on MomResponds, that there is such a thing as Grandparental Rights. Apparently, you can go to an attorney, press charges and get mandatory visitation. I wonder, though, who among us would go to that extreme and how the grand kids would feel about it, if we did? It feels irreconcilable to me. That's why I have attempted to come up with suggestions and options. Blessings, Luise

I guess I'll just have to sleep on it (hopefully) awhile...I want to go and I don't...either way its not gonna feel good. Harden my heart huh?!  don't know if I can..feels like an open wound most of the time...anyhoo...will think this weekend...am getting away to a lake for two days (I live in Southern Ca.) will try to not talk about this to friends in that time (HA)! will miss you guys...enjoy whatever you can! by the way its the 31st of this month. I have time to think (obsess..)? good thing I don't have a laptop you would always be with me...

Hello everyone!!

I was reading one of the posts by Prissy and it struck a chord with me.  When you said a friend of yours said to "harden you heart", I have been doing that for years. 

I tried so many times to "accept" my FH mother for who she is, that I am worn out from all the back and forth drama.  I would ask myself, "Does this woman really care about me or is she only concerned with how she is perceived by me??"  I would ask that because when I would try to talk to her, it would always feel like criticism on her part.  Questions as to why I would do something because she just can't understand why, or even when I would ask her not to do somethings with my children she would act as if she's having to walk on eggs around me.  She would make comments like "Well I know you would be so angry with me if I did that so I made sure I didn't."  It's not that I would be angry but that I'm the mom now and I make the rules for my children.  This all makes me think does she really want to be apart of my life for me or my children?  Does she care that the way she wants me to feel about her is not what I feel?  Can she every imagine that maybe my lack of interest in a relationship is solely based on her actions and remarks?? 

Prissy's friends comment really made me think about who's being hurt in all this madness.  I'm having to harden my heart in order to deal with my FH's mother because I'm not who she wants me to be and vice versa.  I don't feel for her the way she wants me to and she doesn't back off the way I would like.  I shouldn't have to harden my heart but I do and it has helped, but I'm sure my FH isn't completely happy with how things have ended up.

It's really hard to care for someone completely, not just because of the title they carry in your life, but because of how they make you feel and vice versa.  Just because I will be a DIL soon doesn't mean I will have the feelings that "should" come with it, whether that's right or wrong.  Being a MIL doesn't "entitle" you to love from a woman whom you didn't raise, weren't there for the smallest cuts to high school heartbreaks and may have negative feelings about for what ever reason.

I wish I wouldn't have had to harden my heart as much as I have because sometimes I think it can't be reversed.  I would like to try to work things out with my FH's mother but with so much past hurt on both parts, how do I convey that I don't want to rush anything??  How do I open the doors to create a new relationship with her and be realistic about the relationship?

Well, it seems to me that all you can do is what you're doing. My take is that the lady has some serious limitations that you have probably pegged pretty accurately. Starting over with a clean slate would take two mature people in agreement. I'm not sure you have that or can create it, unilaterally.

As far as hardening the heart, I don't know. It seems to me the heart takes a real beating when there is misunderstanding and misrepresentation and that pulling away or "hardening" is pretty much a natural survival response. We open our hearts...hoping...but it is simply unwise to keep them open if battering is what comes, masked as love or "whatever."

I'm very touched by your ability to express that marriage to anyone's son doesn't automatically guarantee an instant, deep and abiding friendship and connection between mother in law and daughter in law. Those things come, if and when they do, over a relatively long period of time as mutual respect builds. With few exceptions, there's probably no shortcut.   

I feel that you are a blessing to this site...giving us a lot to think about. I also think you are doing your best under very difficult circumstances.

I think I should have said in my last post that I was responding to Beide2Be. (I'm learning.)  ;D

So, the rest of this is to Millie: I, too, am thinking of you and your Memorial Weekend  vacation during which you will be making your decision. I'm sending loving, healing energy your way. Blessings, Luise

Hi guys...

I'm Baaack!  Luise, you were so right....it does always feel like I'm dragging my heart around...reminds me of the best discription of motherhood I ever hood..." your heart is always walking around without you"

Hope you had some "happy time" this weekend...I did..I learned a few things about ME this weekend....I learned I'm "ok" without makeupkl doing my hair, or wearing the same socks for three days!
(phew)! but seriously it was cold and I'm a native Californian

I think I know what I'm going to do too...(about the 31st) I'm going to go but sit where they don't see me..find them after church and just hand them two envelopes..one for the babies, and one for my son..a letter I wrote him a year ago. Its not a negative one or one that my DIL can't read or show to someone else (her mother) and be misinterpreted (I think) anyway I;m going to go hand the envelopes and hopefully get out of there as quickly and quietly as I can...and try to remain "hardened" to anything around me...(don't know what I'll do if I see grandbabies though)

its early enough in the morning so that I can plan something fun to do afterwards to look forward to..and at least I'll be able to say I was there...I was thinking about my mom this weekend and I know she would have done that...(wonderfully stubborn old Italian lady) she would have spit in the wind! (or my DIL's eye) maybe I need to be more like her (tough I mean).

it was nice to come home to you guys though...I want to write each of you a note and "thank you", I know you each have your own heartache that your going through...I have my "dirty therapy" what do you do to make yourselves feel better? hobbies, obsessions, etc? (not to change the subject though I promise)...Bride2be..you've given me some things to think about..I've thought I never did anything to make my DIL uncomfortable... but after reading your last entry, I wonder. will think on it somemore...I thinks she's terribly lucky to get you!

Welcome Home, Millie! Missed you! Blessings, Luise

Hi everyone,

read the scripts of the last week...wow...Bride2be..I agree with Prissy...in that you have a long way to go, maybe (and hopefully you will never get it) I have felt sorry for young girls I see with little boys...I hope they will have better luck with thier DIL's someday...you might ask yourself what you yourself would want as a MIL? I take it as a sign when young girls such as yourself don't DEFER to their MIL's (at least to their our faces)...to me that shows me they want to be my friend...SORRY! I don't want to be theirs!  I'm older, and I was raised in a different time, where young people treated older people with a little more dignity then they would treat their FRIENDS!

maybe I am just old-fashioned but being older meant being a little higher up on the food chain then a friend...as in GRANDmother?

anyway, I'm probably in for another dose of heartache tomorrow as my grandbabies are being baptized in church (no I did not get an invitation)! but I'm going anyway...sit in the back...and see what I can see...maybe hand my son a letter I worte a yr ago...maybe not but anyway I got alittle something for the babies and they will get it one way or the other! worried about seeing them though....will probably have to air out a bit on the computer tomorrow....sleeping pill tonight though! I thank God for you guys and this site...it feels so wonderful to be heard...Luise..Bless you and Kirk!

Hi Millie,

It's Sunday morning...and today is the day. Just putting it out there that you are not alone...you have a new family, and that's all of us. Sending you loving, healing energy.

I will share, probably on Grab Bag, what has been going on with me. (Lots.)

Blessings,

Luise

Anyone who wants to know..I went to the baptismal, sat in the balcony and watched...my son, DIL and grandbabies, her parents, her brother, her parents friends the whole pack of em..

sound like I'm feeling sorry for myself? I am now fourteen hours later..I'm pretty sure some of her family recognized me but I left early gave a letter to the nursery teacher for my son and wife (the babies didn't see me) then left and dropped some gifts off for the children at thier house while they were still in church...

I think I handled it pretty well...but now I don't know I can't sleep again...thinking of how my daughter keeps trying to somehow make up for her jerk of a brother...will she always feel this way? and the anger at my husband for doing nothing! I know he's hurting as well but I just wish we could present a united front to her family at times like this...its so lonely....How has the loss of your sons affected the rest of your family relationships? have you gotten closer or further away? HOW???

its was surreal sitting by myself watching everything take place in church..all I could think about was how hypocritical ,how unbelievably disappointed I was in my son...but at the same time...I could see he had people around him and the babies that cared about him...not a bad thing right? I'm glad for him I really am, but...............so much for sleep..............let go and let God ........

Oh, Millie...you had a whole gang around you, too. All of us!

And I know that often men aren't able (or maybe willing) to get into such deep emotional water. Letting go is such a tall order and yet I'm sure that's the only way to go. We can't have our lives end because someone took an eraser and erased us from their reality. We haven't been erased from the planet. Bless your daughter's heart for caring. And no, of course she shouldn't have to try to make up for your son. Each person has his/her own reaction and takes whatever path is chosen.

I'm not suggesting you take up basket weaving but there are people who are childless that lead full lives. There are other avenues beyond those of the heart that have been initiated by our choice to become parents. Fir instance, one of my readers on my other web site signed up to be a part time foster parent and is creating other "grandchildren" to love, who need it desperately.

I think many of us seem to have experienced being loved without reservation by one child while being damned by another. That's so confusing...at least for me.

Blessings, Luise

Why does it have to be this was between MIL's And DIL's I really don't understand.I have always loved my mother in law and respected her.I never once tried to talk bad about her to my husband or keep him from seeing her.But I have a Daughter in law that loves to make the whole family unhappy.She cause's brothers to turn against brothers.And sister in law against sister in law,Father and son against eachother,son against Mother.She just not happy it seems unless she has everyone fighting.Why? I cant for the life of me understand.My heartbreaks at 40 because I look at prissys list and I see it happening.I love all 3 of my son's very much.But I think she will eventually turn my son away from his brothers his dad and his mother what do you do how do you stop this? ??? ???

Welcome Geo: We are a strange little band, probably, but the glue that holds us together is the kind of compassion you were just offered from Prissy.

We have all run the emotional gauntlet, maybe in different ways but that doesn't matter. We've been stunned by disloyalty and betrayal, we've been racked with guilt while wondering what we did wrong, we've been high on hopes before we realized we were being lied to and we've been shattered by the devastation of loss and despair.

We're here to share and care...and we're here to listen and contribute. We're just here. Blessings, Luise

Hi Millie, I have been wondering how you are doing after your experience at the baptism? Any family fall-out? Are you OK? Blessings, Luise

There is a disorder called Boarderline Personality Disorder that explains why one partner would want to try and cut off "healthy" family ties.  If they can isolate their partners they can control them more easily.  Like the Stockholm syndrome and emotional brainwashing.  They are usually women, have very low self esteems, and fear being abandoned.  All of their behaviors usually sabatoge most of their relationships making the fear more real.  Like a wheel that starts spinning out of control.  I truly believe this explains why my DIL has cut my son off from the majority of his family and friends.  They start relationships off very fast moving to intimacy quickly and make their partners feel like they are their saviors or "kinghts in shinning armour" once they have them hooked they revert back to their old patterns seeing things in only "black and white" you are either for me or against me.  They go off in rages and find a way of making their partners feel it is their fault for making them so angry.  Once they give into the demands they become the "knights" again.  It is crazy but it is a relationship that only the strongest can overcome.  I have heard from men in situations like this that say they cut thier families out of their life to keep the peace and regretted it later.  But all they were thinking of was getting through each day without an outburst.  They encouraged me to learn all I could about this disorder because they say if my son ever does get out he will need a lot of emotional help.  They also encouraged me to occassionally try and contact my son just to let him know he is still loved and the door is always open.  In some cases this is the one thing that gave them the courage to finally leave.  Even if I am afraid that what I send will be interpreted as not respecting their boundary, not trying to contact will be interpreted as proof I never cared.  A real no win situation.

Prissy, Neither of us are phychologist and BPD is hard to diagnose.  Your son and DIL will not appreciate the news...lol.  But if you think this describes you DIL check out a site called BPDfamily you will find more information there than you can imagine.

For me understanding that my son is in a sick relationship with a possibly very sick person helps me not take all of this so personally.  I don't mean I miss him any less but it does lesson the guilt of thinking I did anything to cause this horrible of treatment.  I also suggest seeking a counselor.  Mine told me that "this is probably less about me and more about him making it day to day the best he can"  He also believes my son is probably miserable but only he can determine what he will take.  He doesn't need any more pressure from me because that only makes her worse.  Also he said that if I stay out of the picture she will have to find other people/things to blame.  Hopefully helping him to see her more clearly.

All I can do is try to live the best I can and pray for him.  I also have a granddaughter I have never met.  I made a promise on her behalf to not let this make me an old bitter woman, so that maybe I will be someone she will one day want to know.  I wear her birthstone everyday to remind me of that and to give me a reason to get my life back.  My DIL has already taken too much from me.  The more I heal the more I realize how this has affected those around me who love me and need me to be ok.  I have also recently adopted a young couple at my chuch who have no relatives close by.  They are due to have a baby soon and I have been told I can hold their baby anytime  ;D

It has taken me a long time to get here (2 1/2 years) and I still have a ways to go.  I hope that knowing this will give you hope it will get better, but you will have to fight for it.

Contact me anytime.
((((((((((((Prissy))))))))))))))

What a different dimension that kind of psychological information offers, lostone.

Hi Anna, Welcome. Which one of us was that directed to? I think, without, exception, we all wanted to be friends and started out assuming that was possible.

Anna,
God forbid that Bride2be has a son...I don't mean this in a cruel way, Bride2be; I hope you understand where I'm coming from.

It is so devastating to lose him, especially when you simply come across a threatened woman. It's a battle for supremacy and his parents lose, always, if she is threatened. It's about who is going to be in control and if she isn't, it's bad. 

Bride2be said that her Mother knows about this and has said that she's not willing to stay with the kids if this goes on with his Mother.  If the situation was reversed, it would be, "goodbye MIL".

Maybe her MIL is really bad.  We're not...we're only wanting some way to fit in. That's it.  We can be treated like dirt under their feet and there's no one to come to our rescue.  We have to lump it. 

It's not right.  It is a travesty......I know that this will come to visit the DILs again but it will be much worse.  It does go around......

No wonder you are weary, Anna. How sad that you are being put through this. It must be very confusing for the grand kids because they can't help but feel your love and know you are not the "enemy."

If you get a chance, read the topic where the question is asked about what a MIL wants in a DIL. It's a very different slant on "supremacy." That's not a four-letter word but it sure is a bad one.

I feel for those who can't even remotely understand my feelings.  I am a person with feelings and I have every right to protect them too.  No I don't know what it's like to have a son, but I do know I never came in to the situation trying to take her son.  Maybe some of you can't relate to my situation.  Have any of you ever thought about anyone else but yourself (like your DIL) or are you all convinced that you are the enemy??  Well I feel like the enemy too, I'm not the mother in law so I guess once again my feelings aren't as important nor is the way I should be respected also.  I have tried on many occasions to be friends with this woman and it has always led to her screaming at me when I didn't do what she wanted, ever single time.  Over the last 7 years I have been out to lunch with this woman, taken her shopping, sat with her at her home and just chatted, I have watched her house when she went out of town, she has had unlimited access to her grandchildren from day one only to feel like I have gotten no where with her.  I feel for all of those on here who are so sure that it is the DIL.  Some on here are so cold to the idea that there is a DIL who has tried as hard as you all seem to have tried and still feel like they get no where.  This site is filled with women who should have insight and caring for those in the young generations but can't even seem to see that there are DILs who have valid points for feeling the way we do.  Maybe not important enough to matter but I can see why some of your DILs might not want to be around you.  I can read the insensitivity to a DILs feelings, so I can only imagine what they felt in person.  We are people too and it is no wonder as to why a woman in the DIL position may want to get away, we aren't going to be who you want at all times and neither will you.  Learn to show some compassion for those who hurt even if you just "can't understand", your way of doing things isn't the only way.  When I read this site it just makes me realize that I'll never have a good relationship with my MIL because if they are anything like you all she will only think of herself and whats wrong with me and not how she has hurt me. 

Not all MILs are saints and some do things that really push people away, even their own children.

Well said, B2B. When the mind closes for whatever reason except perhaps survival, we are in for it. Defending a point of view can become a career path
and when that happens, it may be mistakenly seen as survival.

The worst part of that for me was that when I went down that road, I never knew it. Those near and dear had to bring me back and I have have been know to fight them tooth and nail. I was so incredibly "right" that there simply wasn't anything else in my consciousness except the documentation that supported my position.

In eight short years I will be 90 years old and it's wonderful to be able to report that those around me are off the hook. I can spot it...address it and move through it. Sometimes not as rapidly as I would like, but hey, it's movement. Before my life is over, I would sure like to find that I am over even going there. Wouldn't that be a "whew?"  ;D

We are coming up against persecuted DILS and we are coming up against persecuted MILs. I am so interested in the thread about supremacy.

I see us sometimes getting into stereotypes... where it is assumed that you haven't tried because the toxic DIL never does. And then there's the assumption that the MIL has never tried because your FMIL is too self-absorbed to even consider it.

Trying for a long time without success can bring hopelessness and bitterness. Not being heard or seen can be experienced as abuse because it is.

The efforts you have made to listen, to relate, to respect and to try again astound me. The bind you find yourself in because of your FH's priorities  saddens me and the courage you evidence here in being candid and real is an inspiration to me.

Luise, I had a little trouble following that but I guess you were pretty much talking about being closed minded.

OK, I can get that we probably all do that more often than we would wish.

My 2 cents worth when I think about it is that when we become closed minded and in this case we are pretty much talking about the door being closed between MIL and DIL for whatever reason, then it's probably true that we don't listen we just defend. I think I agree with you there.

Is it possible that the person who is making our life miserable may even become inconsequential because hurt and hate can take on a life of their own? I feel like that is happening to me sometimes. Jeez!

That's abstract. Freely translated I get that it may be possible to see that Nasty (my pet name for my DIL) is still nasty and I need to get over it and have a life. How? She's right in my face! And my son is "gone." Whose fault is that? Not mine, I can tell you! 

Oh, shoot...am I just describing how being closed minded works? I hate this!

Hummmm - where do we go from here? I feel like I'm talking to myself and going in circles. No wonder I spend a lot of time lurking on this website instead of posting.

I keep going back and reading what lostone wrote about the pathology of such a person, (the DIL who isolates the son.) How can we hate someone who is so sick? We can sure hate what they do and the way they ravage our families but it's really hard for me to separate the two.

And my eyes glaze over when I get a lecture on forgiveness. I hate to admit that but there you are. I also feel terrible about my own feelings of  brokenness. It's too high a price to pay to never heal and that must be about me. I hate looking at that, too. I hate all of this! I really do! :'(

Well, my first step is to stop calling her "Nasty." I have to take some kind of action or I think I will be stuck forever. I'm trying to get that if she had some other kind of horrible disability, I wouldn't stoop to name-calling. I don't know if I can go any farther than that right now but I want my life back and I have to start somewhere. Even with holes in it, I want my life back. I want to heal and be whole again. I had myself sold on the fact that wholeness could never happen but I think that my own attitude may be keeping it in place. This is so hard!!

And there's that voice that asks why I have to work so hard on its? It's her fault. See, there I go again!

I don't know what step two is but step one is to call her "SWWRN" for now. Maybe I can do better later. That stands for She Who Will Remain Nameless. Can anybody suggest what step two might be? And I'm sorry but as I said before I can't go the forgiveness route. It is too "pie in the sky" for me. I am not a goody two shoes but I am also not deserving of this whole mess.

I appreciate you guys.

Hello everyone.  I am new here.  Have removed myself from being her mil in 04 and haven't looked back.
   I am trying to remove the bad memories of all of it for nothing they did together as a couple showed any compassion or love or kindness and I don't want people like that in my life.
   I am hoping to get to know you and be helpful as much as I can and to lend a sympathetic ear and def give out hugs!

Thank you for being here, SunnyDays, we need you!!

Amen, Prissy! And welcome, S/D. You have a gentleness and a firmness that go well together. Very much appreciated. :)

Thank you Prissy and luise.volta.  Oh how I wish I had found you back then! 
     

Luise has provided the most needed forum in the world!  It's unique and I wish I'd had this many years ago too.  You sure are pretty, SunnyD!!! :)

Thanks Prissy but I used a star's  pic in my profile av.  There is also a choice of musicians.  lol    I believe her name is Eva??

Well, that's fun to pick a non-picture picture!

One of my granddaughters-in-law has put up her dog's picture on Facebook.  ;D

That's another whole chapter in life...granddaughters-in-law. I have one here and one in Paris and they are both wonderful. There is also an ex-GDIL that I'm still in contact with.

And since I have four great grandchildren in high school and college...Whoa!...can great great granddaughters-in-law be far off?  ???

Oh Happy Days, what a good idea!

I think I'll put up Marilyn Monroe as me and that way, no matter what I say, I'll always seem like a sexpot when I say it!

Well, that might work on another website but I think you'd do better here with Brad Pitt.  ;D

Yes, you're right.  Although, people might reply to me for my autograph all the time and I'd be all tied up with that.

It's always something...

mmm  brad pitt.  nice. 

As for expectations, I would like to share a prayer of Gestalt therapy -

I do my thing and you do your thing.
I am not in this world to live up to your expectations,
And you are not in this world to live up to mine.
You are you, and I am I, and if by chance we find each other, it's beautiful.
If not, it can't be helped.
(Fritz Perls, 1969)


I have been reading a lot of Gestalt and existentialism and it appeals to my own philosophy of life.

  Lovin that Alicev!!   

could somebody please give me more checks by my name (my question mark doesn't work, wouldn't you know it (question mark) I'm feeling insecure with the 3 pluses and 5 minuses. 

I can't repeat for another hour.  Hey!!  I got me zeros!!!

Quote from: Prissy on August 03, 2009, 06:06:35 PM
could somebody please give me more checks by my name (my question mark doesn't work, wouldn't you know it (question mark) I'm feeling insecure with the 3 pluses and 5 minuses. 

Just a little note I SOOOO wanted to come on here and bash my dil.  I feel as if it is going to happen soon.  Please someone tell me NO.  It doesn't do any good.  I mean come on it's been so long now. 
   What good does it do?  Shame on me.  I would like to throw her mom under a bus (moving) too.

Had to share.   I am not happy about that statement but I will own it.

It won't let me give but one check at a time. I gave you another one.  Isn't that great (question mark)

Quote from: Prissy on August 03, 2009, 06:16:13 PM
It won't let me give but one check at a time. I gave you another one.  Isn't that great (question mark)

woohoo.  I gots me ONE!!  Thank you Prissy!  I tried again.  The hour isn't up.  An hour?  yikies. 

HappyDays,
I tried again, no luck.  I want you to have more checks. I'll keep trying.

Thanks for sharing about her parents. Makes me happy. Your nuts can't be as bad as mine.  Weirdo city.  I feel better now. :-*

I got a minus check so I deleted the person from the forum! JUST KIDDING! That's not even possible but I just had to let everyone know I'm in one really silly mood today. :D ;D :P

Quote from: luise.volta on August 04, 2009, 12:42:47 PM
I got a minus check so I deleted the person from the forum! JUST KIDDING! That's not even possible but I just had to let everyone know I'm in one really silly mood today. :D ;D :P

I am soooo lovin this place!!   :-*  I just + everyone I could cuz I am sooo  :D

Luise and HappyDays, you two are so my kind of people. I love this place too! I'm gaining on my minuses!!  YAY!!

I would give you a whole string of pluses if I could but my webmaster told me, since it is my forum, not to do pluses or minuses. I suppose he's right. I can give you kisses and hugs, though! XOXO!

Try not to let the minuses get to you because you are the backbone of this forum and as such, a handy target. You are outspoken...as in someone who has spoken out. Long live Prissy!!!

You're so sweet, Luise!  Thank you for the hugs and kisses.

Your Webmaster sure is bossy. Oops!  He's your son!!  Hi Kirk!! :-* 

LOL!  ;D

You still have 8 pluses  >:( 

Well, if 8 bothers you...give me one more and I will have 9! Do you like that number better? ::)

So you're cute AND funny? 

And you did it! What a great sport you are!!!! :D

lemme tell ya bout insecure!  have you seen my numbers?   :o


   I see your + and raise you.   and lots of (((hugs))) and  :-*  too. 

I raised you! 

Luise is so filled with pluses.

Awe shucks....

Hey everyone, I have not been here in a while and saw some posts about one of my posts about DIL isolated son because of illness, more specifically BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder).  It sounded like some may think I excuse her behavior because she may be sick, and that was/is not my intent.  I posted that as a possible explanation for why my son is estranged, and what might be going on in his life.  For me understanding this has freed me from feeling totally responsibile for the estrangement and less personally pursecuted.  This is their issue to deal with.  I don't like it, agree with it, condone it, or excuse the affects "their situation" has caused on my life, but I accept this is something I can not change.

As far as forgiveness goes - I found that the only person the anger/hatred was hurting was me and those still in my life that love me.  You can't walk around with that much anger/hurt and not have it spill out into every aspect of your life.  Just as my DIL may have had things happen to her that caused the BPD, does not mean I have to accept that behavior.  Nor can I expect those in my life that know and understand what I am going through be happy and look forward to spending time with me when all I want to do is cry and vent about my situation.  That is why I come to places like this to be heard by others without burdening those I love.  Therefore, I found a way to forgive my son and DIL so that I could find peace in my life.  From what I could tell, my anger toward them and this situation was not costing them even a moment of grief (at least to my knowledge).  So forgiveness was my way of letting go of their control of me, not to release them from responsibility of their actions.  I just turned it over to God to deal with them in his time and way.  “VENGEANCE IS MINE”, sayeth the Lord.  Who better to judge what is true and just?

If you are estranged from your child, coping with the loss of the relationship and future dreams is more than enought to handle without the extra burdeon of hate and anger.  My granddaughter will be 2 the end of this month and I have still not even met her.  I will not let this make me a bitter old woman, so that one day when she is on her own, I may be a person she may want to know.  What better justice would that be?

My heart goes out to all of you suffering as I have/am.  Here is a great article that may help you.
http://www.support4change.com/relationships/letgo/book-intro.html

You're right....forgiveness is for us, not for them. It benefits us, not them. I understand what you are saying and am striving so hard to get there. 

Little things pop up in my head all the time, things she said and did to me, the distance in son towards us and they are out of the blue.  I wonder when they come, "should I just push this down? Or, feel it?"

It is what it is, I guess. These thoughts come up out of nowhere.

Prissy, There are no magic words, or known paths to take, you get through this moment by moment, minute by minute, day by day, month by month, etc..  I will probably continue to heal the rest of my life because what has been broken in me seems unrepairable.  I ended up with a T that told me those random thoughts are being triggered by my sensitivity, and the stronger I get the more I will be able to withstand most of them.  In my case, I have found that to be true.  I spent most of the first 2 years of my estrangement from my son in misery.  My New Years resolution was to do what ever it took to get "My Life Back" to learn to live life and enjoy it where I am and not where I wish I was.  I decided to fight for me and it has been the hardest fight of my life.  But if I don't think I am worth fighting for why should anyone else.  You deserve to be happy regardless whether or not your son is in you life or not.  If you make that your goal and really fight for it, I know in time you will see it was up to you all alone.  Have you heard the saying "garbage in garbage out" what you feed your brain is what you will project.  I am not saying you should just forget (because I don't think that is really possible) I am just saying look for things that make you happy, a hobby, a good movie, music, prayer, friends, a good book (like "The Shack"), etc. and the feelings will follow.  I remember when I first heard that advice I thought "I would if I could, but I can't get past the pain".  So I had to make myself, like I said before I had to fight (myself and my feelings) to do what was best for me over what I wanted to do like curl up in a ball, shut the world off, and cry.  But I promise in time the grip of grief will lose it's grip on you.  It may never completely let go but it will allow you to learn to live and find joy in your life again.  Just writing this to you has made me realized how far I have come since January, and I wish that for you as well.
(((((Prissy)))))

Thank you so much. I am really trying. I've come a long way too. I no longer burden my friends with this.  I look back and don't know how they could stand it. Constantly in tears, constantly confused.

I do owe myself more and I am trying.  I have made that much progress. :)

What a beautiful exchange. Lovely...

Quote from: Prissy on August 06, 2009, 12:00:07 PM
Thank you so much. I am really trying. I've come a long way too. I no longer burden my friends with this.  I look back and don't know how they could stand it. Constantly in tears, constantly confused.

I do owe myself more and I am trying.  I have made that much progress. :)

That is exactly what I was feeling along with "what did I do"??!!  I always blamed myself.  Tried a little harder, or not as hard.  Not sure if this was a day for bad stuff to happen or not. 
   I was always trying to keep the peace.  To please.  To make them comfortable at my expense.  Whatever they wanted or needed.  I was there to help them. 
   It was very much like I have read in households where the children grow up in the fear of alcoholic parents.  Never knowing what or when the switch was thrown to have the troubled parent react.   Not that the DIL scream, throw things, etc.  But it's that moment of silence that you dread for fear of the unknown.
   And to know this is a woman our sons have chosen to love.  If they feel fine with this, then I feel fine walking away from all the messy mean and not looking back. 
    Hope things improve Prissy.  I do know. 

I'm going to really try to look at all this and learn. I've tried to read the Codependent books because I know I am that....but I can't seem to concentrate on it. I'll try.

Thanks for all this information. I know it would help. 

What a lovely visualization. I am going to put it to work in my spiritual practice. Thanks!  :D

It is the next morning, now, and I wanted to report how easy the process is and how rewarding. Thank you so much for passing this information on. It is easy for some of us to drown in self-help books...there are so many to wade through. Millions? ??? 

I can do something simple like this and use it to heal. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!  ;D

I have to try something....thank you Alicev for ideas on what to do.  It seems like a counselor told me once to do this kind of thing.  She also said that no child (me) should ever have to go thru what I did as a child.

It's funny; I did pretty well until she came into my life. I have really "had" it with counselors since the last one I went to said: "no, your son does not love you! You can't talk to or allow anyone to talk to your Mother like that if you love your Mother"

I'm tired of paying money to someone else when I am innocent!  I'm not guilty of anything except loving my kids.

That's why I think this exercise will be good for me.  Thank you!!!

Luise! Your pluses are getting off the chart! I'm filled with envy!  :P

Lostone,
I wanted to thank you for your kind words to me.  I want to change your name to "Highstone" because you are trying to take the high road in your challenges and I admire you!!

Beautiful! Thank you again!

My husband will be 98 years old in October and there is such a sense of peace in his demeanor. He doesn't say much about it but everyone who is around him senses that he is "vertically connected" and in some sort of state of Grace. What a teacher! He smiles and says life for him is a Near Death Experience because death can't help but be near.

His memory is bad and his hearing and sight are impaired but he takes the dog for several long walks every day, keeps the kitchen neat and tidy, (I haven't washed a dish in the 20 years we have been together), makes his own bed...etc. No walker or cane for him but he moves slowly and carefully. We still converse easily and comfortably and he helps me daily with my question and answer website; http://www.MomResponds.com .

Talk about acceptance... :)

  I was reading her poster name as lost one! duh. 

QuoteI am a recovering codependent myself. And it took me a long way to even understand what was wrong with me. I knew it was something because I didn't feel right to myself, I just couldn't pinpoint at what was wrong. Anyways, through my trials and tribulations I finally came to the term codependency and I immediately recognised that this was me. There is lots of literature out there of this topic, what has worked for me most, are books by Melody Beattie. Her book "Codependent No More" literally saved my life. Ever since I have read through many of her books and step by step with practicing the principles of healing, I have found peace in my life.

  I have that book around here somewhere...or did I let someone borrow it? 
  I found it to be quite helpful when dealing with issues of my parent's alcoholism and that of my son's as well.

Along with many, many private counseling sessions with a fabulous therapist!
   Information is out there and will only help if you are willing to put the measures to work.
  I am so happy for you, alicev.  ((((hugs))))

To give you an idea of how codependent I am, I was at a funeral Friday, sadly, when I noticed a friend, who was going to sing at the service.

She was sitting alone.  I went to her and said: "I feel responsible for you sitting alone.  I feel like I should sit with you". (this was before the service started)

She knows me very well and smiled, "you're not responsible for me sitting alone" (she's about 15 years younger than I am)

I said, "when did you learn that you are not responsible for everything?"

She said, "about 2 years ago!!!!"

This must be a new phenomenon.

Prissy - How would you define a co-dependent?  I've heard that term many times before.  I wonder if my MIL could be this. 

My MIL chronically tries to make my husband and SIL bring her her happiness and socialization, but they don't want to.  I think because she has smothered them for many years.  I've seen the links she's gone to get her children/grandchild to give her attention and to keep it.

Gosh, you got me there....I think it's when you're constantly trying to please everyone around you?  Is that it?

and, that you're not happy unless everyone else is happy? 

Anybody got a working definition?

There are many definitions, I will offer Melody's here: Codependent is a person who has let someone else's behaviour affect him of her, and is obsessed with controlling other people's behaviour.

It is about caretaking but not taking care of oneself, helping that doesn't help, obsessing, controlling, being emotionally overwhelmed, manipulating and letting others manipulate yourself, lots of guilt, being resistant, reacting rather than acting, being afraid to be who we are, not knowing who we truly are, lacking in self-love, misinterpreting self-love as selfishness, giving more than we receive, being in denial, lacking boundaries, being dependent, basically having one's control centre outside of oneself. 

Oh my Gosh, Alicev....that is me, down to a tee.  The problem is that I don't know what to do about it.  I recognize it but it's for certain that I need to work on it.

I'm not happy unless I'm doing all these things you mentioned.  Of course, that really brings me misery.  It's like a groove in a record; I play the same tune. 

I have a friend who grew up having one of her parents as an alcoholic. She was the first one to introduce me to the concept of codependency. So I witnessed some of her growth and talking to her made me really curious as to how did she get to that point. I asked her what had helped her and she gave me "Codependent No More". I started to read the book and I had the same reaction as you "wow, this is me! And this author knows what it is, what it feels like, what it means". So this is what has worked for me. With the kick start from Beattie's book and a lot of willingness to work on myself I have made it here. I still have a long way to go, but who doesn't. That's what life is all about.

I have such trouble distinguishing being selfish and doing what's best for me!  I was brought up to give to others. Others first. This will be a long journey for me but I'm willing.

Hey everyone my name is lost one - but I like to High Stone better.  I lost one of my sons but I am no longer lost.  In fact, everyday I realize how much more connected to my life I am becoming.  I heard that is part of the grief process, where you subconciously disconnect from everyone and everything as a way to protect yourself.  I did, the only person I stayed connected to was my poor sweet wonderful and patient husband.  But even with him the connection was minimal. Now everyday I look around me and realize how fast time is flying by and how fragile life really is.  I mean people die suddenly everyday, and I could be next.  I am thankful for my estrangement in the fact it made me realize what is the most important to me and what I want to do with the time I have left.  One thing for sure, I don't want to spend it like I have most of the last 2 1/2 years in grief, alone, and disconnected from everything that gave/gives me JOY in life.  How I spend the rest of my life may not be totally up to me, but how I chose to deal with what comes my way is.

I grew up with an Alcoholic Dad and a Enabler Mother, and my sister became the responsible one, while I became the pleaser.  I agree with the definition above.  I came to realize how codependent I was after my husband left me because he became tired of living with a doormat.  I became a doormat in order to keep peace in my home and my family intact.  And it seemed to work at the cost of my confidence, my self-respect, and my dreams, for 17 years.  Guilt has always been my biggest motivator and my estranged son had manipulating me down to a science.  Becoming the parent he needed me to be after my husband left was exstreemly hard because I feared losing another person in my life that I loved.  But I did what I had to do because he needed a parent not another friend or guilt ridden pushover mom.  It was a struggle, but in the course of parenting him, his younger twin brothers were watching it all.  Had I not put my foot down (even when his dad would give in and override me) my twins saw it and learned from it.  They call their brother their Anti-Role Model.

As you can imagine - guilt reared it's ugly head when my son estranged himself from me.  I rehashed everything over and over again trying to figure out what I did - so I could fix it (the fantasy).  If I had been the mom I should have been this would not have happened.  (another fantasy).  The facts are I was a better mom than I thought I could be, and if I failed short it was not from lack of trying or intent to harm.  I loved all my boys with all I had and did the best I could.

I use to think a lot of what I now realize are co-dependent traits were hereditary.  That I was born this way and therefore would not be able to change.  I was thankfully wrong.  Becoming aware of those traits, being able to recognize them, and resisting the urge to give into them is something that I am finding gets easier with time.

If anything I have said has brought even a bit of comfort or hope, than I will give God the credit for bringin me through this with a desire to help others.   ::)

Greetings.

Just checking it and saying hello.  I've read the posts on this thread and will look around some more. I have two DIL's -- three sons.   I'm OK with one DIL, evidently not with the other.

I don't know if we post stories somewhere else?  or not?  My DIL of 7 years got mad at me at a family function (a funeral of my former MIL, how ironic!)  only a month ago.  She and my son live 3,914 miles away overseas - she's evidently not speaking to me and I haven't heard from him since last talking to him 3 weeks ago before sending a letter to her, apologizing for upsetting her.

It's complicated. There's not enough space here to explain it all.  Long story short, what was a minor issue for which I apologized (over and above what was needed) it has gotten exaggerated and my apology has been ignored.  My son no longer is on facebook or twitter, nor on his own blog which bothers me.  I told him I'd stand back until she was calm enough to talk but I am wondering if perhaps what seemed a minor incident was to her the straw that broke the camel's back -- that is, there were things I'd done before that bothered her and she never told me, and this was it.

My other DIL and I seem fine, but now I realize the power a DIL has to cut a son off from the family.  I love my son -- and I know he loves me.  If she has put up a choice for him of her (and his son) or me, I have to support him in doing what he must.  But this is really really sad.  And my having two other sons doesn't make it any easier.

In any case, I'm glad I found this board. 

One thing we have seen here on this Forum is that a break like you are describing, (one that is out of proportion to the incident that occurred), may not necessarily be an issue of accumulated and unaddressed incidents. Sometimes it is an excuse to justify separating the adult son from his family. Maybe not a conscious scheme or a premeditated act but a plan, however unconscious, to produce that result.

I feel such  heartbreak for both AnnieB and Highstone that I don't even know what to say. 

It's the terrible consequence of having a son who marries one of these people who in turn, ruin our lives.  Unless we get control of ourselves by some means, we can't go on.  I admire both of you!

Quote from: luise.volta on August 10, 2009, 07:27:59 PM
One thing we have seen here on this Forum is that a break like you are describing, (one that is out of proportion to the incident that occurred), may not necessarily be an issue of accumulated and unaddressed incidents. Sometimes it is an excuse to justify separating the adult son from his family. Maybe not a conscious scheme or a premeditated act but a plan, however unconscious, to produce that result.

Yes, I'm slowly coming to realize this... and of course not liking it.  If it was something I had done, then perhaps I could fix it  Or maybe it was something I did.. I just don't think it was that awful. and I've tried to fix it.
Annie edit 9/3/2009 Of course, as I've been processing and learning, I've realized that it was something I did, and trying to fix it only has made things worse.  Live and learn.  I am now going to remove most of the details of what I originally posted, for a couple of reasons.

One, it reveals way too much personal information about my DIL and my son.  Two, newcomers find it troubling and may react, without realizing this was what I had posted at the time I was feeling it -- as I've listened to others and processed their reactions, feedback and comments - and as I've done some pondering on my own -- what I felt when I originally posted this no longer applies.

Suffice it to say I had stepped in with my DIL in a way I could have handled so much better.  She's not speaking to me, but I hope she will in a while.  In the process, I am learning a lot about myself, what it means to be a human being and what the role of MIL seems to be to myself and others.

My intent is not to deny or hide anything.    Peace.

[/]

Anna,

I hope others can answer because at the moment I am still wrapped up and licking my wounds.  Acting out of anger is never good... "re-acting" always gets me in trouble.

In some ways I'm thankful for the distance we have because it allows me to think.  But in your case,  I would not change my behavior or things I was doing unless I thought it needed to be changed.  Changing it to get a reaction or to show someone will have the opposite effect. 

More than anything I think what I am learning here is that our children will go on with their lives as they think they need to.  They are still learning (as are we)... they are going to make mistakes to.. meanwhile, I need to go on with my life and not get stuck in this situation.

One thing I think is true is that no matter what comes out of this, my relationship with my DIL will not be the same as it was.    Now, that could be good or that could be bad.  That will depend on her and on me, both -- and perhaps on my son, her husband.    Perhaps she and I will be more honest with each other.  Or perhaps it will just be that I will be more honest with her.   Whatever happens - 15 years of silence or a phone call tomorrow - I have learned a lot from this.
 

QuoteMaybe I should stop trying to have a relationship with dil who doesn't want one with me, stop trying to please her, stop bending over backwards to help them when they get themselves in trouble. Stop caring.  What do you think?

I have learned that I cannot force a relationship on others. I cannot even force a certain type of relationship ( best friends). It really does take two people to make something happen. It takes two to destroy, it takes two to build. We cannot make anyone do something unless they themselves WANT to do it. So willingness is the key here.

You don't have to stop caring. When you stop obsessing over them and stop bending backwards, then that doesn't mean you have stopped caring. Caring also means you kind enough to let people face their own consequences. It means you let them learn their own lessons, let them grow. Caring means understanding that we are in this life to make mistakes. Because through mistakes we learn and grow. Through experiencing the consequences we learn and grow. You know in your heart you care. You don't need any one else's validation or confirmation.

AnnieB -

thanks for sharing your story. I am not totally sure that I have understood all correctly all but I will try to simplify and shorten it:

There was a funeral. You, your son and DIL all attended. Your DIL was upset with your son. She started to complain and make comments on him. (saying he needs to be punished and, etc). You decided to talk to your son about it. Your son then went and talked to her wife about it. His wife got mad at you.

To me her reaction makes sense. I am by no means saying that it was a "right" way to deal with a situation but I understand how did she come to this point.

For better understanding lets rearrange the parties. Imagine if the situation had been like this:

There is a funeral. Your son, you and DIL are attending. Whatever the reason, you are upset with your son. You don't know how to handle it but you react. Then his wife talks to him privately. Then your son comes to you and tells you that he did not appreciate your behaviour. If you were totally honest about yourself now: would you rather react to your son or DIL?

This is a natural reaction of a person that is insecure.

My best friend was married to a scoundrel. I once saw the guy out in town with another woman. I had a tough decision - to tell my friend or not? I decided to tell. She was hurt and upset. She told her husband it was me who had told her. He managed to convince her that it wasn't what it looked like. He called me and yelled at me. Then my friend got upset with me for "wanting to separate" them.

I thought I was doing the right thing. But in the end I was the one who was blamed for all. I decided to never meddle in other people's lives. It sure did teach me a lesson.

PS! She is not married to him any longer :) It did not take me to make her figure out what she really wanted. She had to live her life to figure things out on her own.

Quote from: Alicev on August 11, 2009, 11:48:11 AM
AnnieB -

thanks for sharing your story. I am not totally sure that I have understood all correctly all but I will try to simplify and shorten it:

There was a funeral. You, your son and DIL all attended. Your DIL was upset with your son. She started to complain and make comments on him. (saying he needs to be punished and, etc). You decided to talk to your son about it. Your son then went and talked to her wife about it. His wife got mad at you.

editing again, taking out personal info that could identify parties and that is judgemental.   I'd say, close enough.
Mmm... well, no, not quite.   I had the presence of mind to stay out of the silliness over the flat tire and punishment. 

My concern was over an 18 month period of my hearing her berating my son's appearance in his presence and mine.


Hindsight is 20/20 -- and if I had to do it over again, instead of my being meek and mild, I think I would have (should have) responded immediately and just said something lightly, even jokingly like, I really don't like to hear my son being talked about like that.   Please don't do it in my presence. 

But I didn't say that to her.  Ever.  I focused on concern for the marriage.

editing again.  Way too much detail that is way too revealing and unnecessarily whining.

No, you don't talk too much, AnnieB...I wish the same thing!  I wish I'd have told my DIL who was in MY home to get out and stay out when she sashayed up to the sink and threw the beverage I had poured in each glass, ice and all, into the sink and screamed: "I've told you 100 times that I don't like that beverage!!!"

I should have told her off right then.  I would have lost my son but I lost my son anyway.

The DILs on those boards are vicious, cruel and bullies.  My DIL is a bully and you know what they say about bullies, "they never stop until you stop them.

Anyone who has visited and tried to reason with DILs on those boards will understand that there is no reasoning with them.  They will eat you alive.

I'm surprised they haven't found us yet and started to eat us alive on this site. 

AnnieB-

QuoteI don't think I can sit in silence any longer and listen to the way she talks to him and to my grandson.

I don't think you should. You have a right to express your feelings, when she says the mean things to your son in your presence. The way you put it (how you thought you should have done in the begining) is very assertive and clear. It is not too late to say it. There is nothing that stops you from saying it now.

Taking the child and going to Turkey is overreaction. But I hope being in her home country will bring her some peace of mind and joy and she will be able to come back well rested and not so critical of your son.

Unfortunately, I can't talk to her because she won't listen (3,914 miles away).

I can wait until they work it out. There are other things I can do with my life right now...   :(

I really do believe that sometimes there are people out there that are looking for the smallest excuse to not like someone.  I know that has happened to me a few times.  Like with my FIL, I'm sure that he was looking for a reason not to like me because I "invaded" his perfect home and took away his son.  One day I wanted to leave their house early and it took him a year to get over that.  he would just turn his back to me if  I walked in the  house or something.  And then another example of this would be one of my coworkers who I've always gotton along with great.  She's 26 still living at home, doesn't like her job anymore and can't get her boyfriend to purpose.  She sees me as someone who is happily married, knows I like my job and has my own home.  Well about three months ago she started acting like she couldn't stand the sight of me and also snaps at me for minor things and she won't talk to me like she used to.  My husband thinks its just female competition and jealously.  But it still hurts.  The point is if someone wants to not like you then they are going to be constantly looking for reasons to not like you and try to push you out of their life.  That's just my opinion.

I've seen this happen, Just2beaccepted, many times in my life.  Your co-worker is jealous of all you have, clearly.

When I hear the term, "because I took away his son", it infuriates me.  That's what my DIL said to me, that I was mad because she stole my little boy.

Such a strange thing to say, since she was like butter when we first met her. "Mom and Dad", she called us.  Now, because I was devastated that she came into this town, never called to let us at least speak to our Grandchildren, I said, "that hurt my feelings".

We are not supposed to react.  We're supposed to deal with whatever hit she sends.  Her actions are not the same as your co-worker's and neither are ours.

We're not picking on her because she took our little boy. We're heartbroken that she took our love we freely gave and threw it away. Someday, her sons will bring home a girl, totally different from her or, maybe exactly like her and my goodness, what a nightmare she will have on her hands.

I am being vindictive here but I do hope I live to see that day. Long live vindictiveness...sometimes it's all we have left.

It seems revealing when someone says they "took away" someone.  And I've heard both a MIL and a DIL make this claim (she took him away from me, or she's mad because I took him away).  This isn't a competition, or shouldn't be.  There should be enough love to go around..

I'd like to come up with a list of things to tell daughter in laws (I started one and have it posted elsewhere, but I would add this to it).. In my view, you aren't taking my son away, you're expanding the family.   Welcome to ours, I hope we're welcome to yours...

or something like that...

...of course, in the back of my head, that irritating poem keeps resonating-- A daughter's a daughter for all of her life, a son is a son til he takes him a wife....

I honestly believe that when we feel that all we have left are the feelings of vindictiveness and the need for revenge that they are pretty natural and temporary feelings. If and when we get stuck in those feelings, I think we are shutting out other feelings that could be more supportive and nurturing for us. We don't hurt others when we are negative, we hurt ourselves.

For me at least, the bottom line is love. I felt deep and abiding love for my son who turned from me in his teens and who passed on in his fifties still agreeing with his wife that I was the Wicked Witch of the West. Love not returned or valued is still pure and untainted. We are mothers. We are love. What others decide to do with that is about them, not us. We gave it our best shot with no guarantees and we would do it again.

Well, you're right, of course, Luise and your point is well taken.  I need to work on not falling into this. 

We (mil's) are not afforded the right to get mad. We should know it's only a double hurt for us.  I hope I can be above (them) oneday and not stoop to writing on boards about even so much as our breathing.  What they say about us is bad, really bad. We try to explain ourselves and are pounced upon like we're dirt by them on these sites. I try not to read them but am drawn to them like a moth to a flame.  This is our only refuge.

I don't understand it. I never will. "A daughter is a daughter all her life and a son, well, if you're lucky, you might have him for Thanksgiving once in awhile if his wife will let him come."

Being drawn to the boards that trash MILs "like a moth," Beloved Prissy, keeps you raw and bleeding. Why would you do that? It's an abusive place and you go there voluntarily? 

If there was a physical place that tortured people...would you go there to get beaten up? Would you be attracted to a sign at the entrance that said, "Come one - come all! We will hurt your feelings, smash your pride, kill your love so freely given and destroy your self-confidence. Come on in and join us. We guarantee we will trash you and reduce you to rubble!"

Can anyone help me with this? What's the drawing card and how can something so terrible as a website that blasts MILs, draw anyone "like a moth?" Where's the appeal?

I want, we want peace and joy for you, Prissy and for everyone who knows your pain.

I think before finding this place, I kept going there because I wanted to try to convince others that I was not one of the "bad" MIL's.    It's something for me about trying to persuade others that I am good, which probably comes from having a hard time accepting that it's OK to also be "bad" i.e., make mistakes  == because that's human.   

My conclusion is that there is a level of growth for many (not all) of the DIL's who have yet to realize they, too, are going to make mistakes, that every MIL is human, etc. etc.   It's pouring salt on open wounds to go there as they cannot yet see - words words words will not convince them.

I have put a link to here on my MIL blog and another MIL article I have that gets traffic.  They also have links to some of the other sites and I am very pleased to note that many more visitors are coming here ..not that I have a lot... but... I hope more MIL's end up here and stay away from the hate.

This is a much needed site - I think you will find more MIL traffic and eventually your administrators will be busy filtering off the negative visitors we may get -- (I do hope we do not have to find ourselves defending ourselves in here -- it's such a lovely place to rest and talk and listen!)


What one has not experienced, one will never understand in print.
Isadora Duncan

At first, I went there to tell my story to anonymous people.  They made fun of me, called me names, humiliated me beyond belief.

Then, I went there to try to understand what I'd done wrong, to listen to their complaints and try to not make those mistakes myself. 

Now, I peek inside to see what they are saying: "can you believe this drama queen?  She has zero boundaries and calls my husband on his cell phone. She knows I don't like asparagus and the narcissistic freak serves it anyway.  I've talked to DH (their husband's) and told him that it's his faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamily and I'm not going over there anymore for their craptaculars. He's beginning to see her for who she is.  It's not my fault; he has his own mind and he's made it up. They are going to blame me but this is his decision."

I'm sorry if it bothers some that I think my MIL and FIL feel like I stole their son away.  And actually everyone doesn't know my whole story yet.  Maybe I need to take to time to tell my story.  But I NEVER went into my marriage thinking I would be competing with his family.  They made me feel unwelcome and tried to put blame on me for stupid stuff.  THey were just looking for reason to hate me.  I realize that now.  MY MIL and FIL both decided probably before then even met me that I was going to be the one to split family up.  I know that I'm not only one who has gone through this.  So yes I'm sure that MIL thinks I stole her baby from her.

Quote from: just2baccepted on August 12, 2009, 08:07:03 PM
I'm sorry if it bothers some that I think my MIL and FIL feel like I stole their son away..... So yes I'm sure that MIL thinks I stole her baby from her.

I think i'm the one who made a comment about people who say someone stole their child away --- but I think you misread what I said (or I miswrote what I said, lol).  If you re-read it, I think you'll see that I wasn't bothered by what you said I was commenting on what Prissy's DIL said about her :)

Your comment was clear - -you didn't say you took away their son, you implied that was what your FIL's was thinking about you.... I could add that phrase to a list of things MIL's (and FIL's) could drop from their vocabulary, as well as things DIL's don't need to say.

But I wasn't even thinking that it applied to you.

To me, the idea of being negatively pre-judged is a very difficult thing to deal with. For others to make up their minds that you are some kind of an evil-stereotype before you're even introduced is the worst kind of abuse.

It happened to me when I married twenty years ago. My step son and step DIL did that. I was, (because I was 16 years younger), obviously a gold digger. I have no idea how they got that going since my husband had very little....but they started right out rude, cold and rejecting. My sons and their wives, in comparison, took the time to get acquainted and treated my husband with the warmth and respect he deserved. A huge contrast.

I understand, thank you. Annie  I just realize that since I'm a DIL with MIL problems some may not feel comfortable with me being on here.  I just want to understand how MIL and FIL feel and boy have I learned a lot by reading these posts.  It makes me want to be a better daughter and take a second look at how I been handling the situation with my MIL and FIL.

No, we want you here, Just2be.  We are not like the other sites who bash each other and try to make the poster feel like an idiot for speaking.

We are travelers too. We have things to learn and you and Sassy could help us.

I, for one, am genuinely trying to understand why all this happened.  I want the truth so I don't have to repeat them.

I still don't know why they threw me away.  Am I like your Mother, AnnieB?  I hope not.  I can't even think of anything my Mother could have done to make me throw her away or distance myself from her.

But in learning, maybe I have some of those traits. I have had a sad, bad childhood.  Maybe it colored my way of being that caused son to reject me. 

Just2be, I had 3 son's that I love very much.  I always hoped that they would marry women that loved and respected them and that they would do the same.  I never once thought that I would have to worry about my son having to chose between his wife and me.  If I had known what I did that made her feel so threatened by our relationship I would have made every effort to respect her feelings - just as I have respected their decision for me to stay out of their life even though it has broken my heart.  I always looked forward to seeing my son become the man he would become as a husband and father.  I hoped to be able to brag about my grandchildren and burst with pride over their ability to be responsible and loving parents.  I knew that it would be hard for them to spend equal time with me, my ex, and her mom, and tried to be accommodating by inviting her mom along when they visited my home (but was never invited to her mom's home).  I looked forward to building a relationship of respect and love with them as a couple cause that is what I believe most loving parents want as well.  I use to always say I didn't miss haveing a daughter because one day I would have three DIL in my life.  But unfortunately that was not to be.  Maybe I was just to old fashioned, maybe I don't understand young women today.  You being here is so helpful to me to learn all I can before my next son takes a bride.  Which will probably be within the next year.  She has actually invited us to her parents home for dinner and we are going camping with her family in a few weeks.  She is probably everything I ever dreamed of in a potential DIL but after what has happened with my first DIL, I feel like I have to walk on egg shells around them for fear of saying or doing something wrong.  I for one do not want to be in my son's business but I sure as heck want to be allowed to be a part of their life.

You can help those like me that just want to learn how to be the best MIL we can be.  If I have learned anything from this ordeal it has been that the key to relationships is learning to accept people as who they are and not who we wish they were.  To understand that everything is not always as it seems because all of us have times when we do and say things we regret for reasons that have nothing to do with the person we take it out on.  Maybe this has made me a better person.  It sure was a high price to pay to learn this but maybe in doing so, I can help others learn it without having to pay such a high price.

Thank you Just2be for not taking it personal when MIL's like me sound angry or accusing - because most of that stems from a intensely horrible hurt.  Losing your child at any age in any way is like a death, and once a mother always a mother - we will grieve for our lost son's and daughters the rest of our lives.

Thank you Prissy.  Lostone I was wondering if you have thought about sitting down with this son and having a true heart to heart and literally showing him your grief. And telling him the same hearfelt things you have here on this site.  Or maybe even writing a letter so you can get all your thoughts out and you won't miss anything from being nervous in person.  It worth a shot right?  You can't push his away any more right?  I've said this before but I think female competition can be ruthless!  I think some of these DIL are just so insecure and so worried that you are going to fall into that MIL from hell category.  The one that calls all the time and puts her noise in their business constantly, and criticises the DIL.  I think some DIL are just bracing themselves for that treatment and then couple that with major insecurity on her part.  After being on this blog I have come to realize the MIL have to deal with the same thing with their DIL that I have to deal with my MIL.  I happily entered my husbands family thinking I"m gaining family and people to have cook-outs with etc...boy I was wrong.  I realize now I was seen as the "invader" and they didn't like anybody coming in their little exclusive circle.  My husband even admits it.  Most of the marriage I always wondered why my hubby never mentioned my name when he'd talk to them on the phone, it was like I didn't exist.  Then after so many years and my hubby admitting it to me.  His parents probably wanted to pretend like I didn't exist.   The sure want to see him though but my husband has nicely told them that we are a package deal.

Just2be, I am sorry that your in-laws did not welcome you into their world or give you the respect that you deserve.  I wish you were my DIL  ;D

I did try a lot in the beginning, because at the time I didn't realize what was happening, as time progressed it became clear that my son suffered consequences when I tried.  In his own words to his dad "he didn't know what to do, she goes beserk everytime he even mentioned my name."

I have settled for contacting him a couple times a year.  Actually the last time was right before I had a majory surgery and I feared I would die and he would have to live with the fact he never told me he was sorry.  So I did it for him.  I called him and managed to get out only a couple of things before he hung up on me.  I told him that I was sorry for whatever I had done, that I thought about him everyday, and that I still loved him dearly.  After that call I felt a huge weight lifted because I knew if something happened that the last words I said to him were loving.

Sorry everyone for being so sappy right now, but for some reason I have just been really missing him more than usual.  Never dreamed that loving someone could cause so much pain.

Just2be - you inlaws were wrong but I commend you for not encouraging your husband to cut them out of his life.  You were definately the bigger person.

Lostone,
I can't tell you how this breaks my heart.  I want to write more when I can to all of you. 

I made an appt. with the Counselor today who had told me my sons didn't love me. Yes, that one.  He's the only one who could see me.

I asked him if I was a narcissist....he said I was the opposite of a narcissist. I thought too little of myself.

He said I was a sensitive soul....I already knew that.  I hate paying money to them!  I just had to know, though, if I was one.

Most of the things you mentioned AnnieB, were done to me when I was a child.  I never did anything bad to my children, ever.  I am a survivor (that's what the counselor told me) 

We'd never need to pay these non-vested interested people if we just felt like we could talk to one another.  I'm glad we can here.   

Lostone - thank you for the nice words.  You seem like such a nice lady and I too wish you were my MIL.  Reading the last part of your post made my eyes tear.  I can almost feel your heartbreak and I don't even have children.  I wish I could understand that love.  To be honest I have contimplated trying to push my in-laws out of our lives as much as possible but now I think, "what if my MIL was mistreated as a child" or "what if she is in as much pain as many of the posters on here."  I plan to post my story on here soon.  I just have to get all my thoughts together.  And then the rest of you MIL can tell me how I should handle the woman.  I know Prissy say she's been to counseling and I too have tried that but quit because my husband wasn't ready to face that yet.  The counselor basically tried to help me understand my MIL and FIL neediness and help me develop boundaries.

Quote from: Prissy on August 13, 2009, 11:28:09 AM
Most of the things you mentioned AnnieB, were done to me when I was a child.  I never did anything bad to my children, ever.  I am a survivor (that's what the counselor told me) 

Wow, I'm stunned.  I removed my post because I feel ashamed I complained about the abuses my mother did ... that you can not feel the need to distance yourself from your mother is awesome.  I have forgiven, but I don't forget, and don't let her close enough to continue with the verbal abuse (all she can manage now).  And I haven't thrown her away, though, I have been her main caregiver for 8 years and I know she had a bad childhood.

I didn't mean to imply you did anything bad to your kids -- you asked me if you were like my mother, I was just trying to describe the abuses I had which I was pretty sure you hadn't done to yours.   I didn't abuse mine either. 

Anyway, I am awed.

AnnieB, my Mother died when I was a little girl. She was the most precious thing to me!  The things that were done to me were done by relatives (mainly Father).

I didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't have distanced yourself from her. I just said that I couldn't have imagined anything my Mother ever could have done to me that would make me leave her.  She had to leave me. 

I know you didn't mean I had done anything to my children.  I just wanted that to be clear. 

Quote from: just2baccepted on August 12, 2009, 08:07:03 PM
I'm sorry if it bothers some that I think my MIL and FIL feel like I stole their son away.  And actually everyone doesn't know my whole story yet.  Maybe I need to take to time to tell my story.  But I NEVER went into my marriage thinking I would be competing with his family.  They made me feel unwelcome and tried to put blame on me for stupid stuff.  THey were just looking for reason to hate me.  I realize that now.  MY MIL and FIL both decided probably before then even met me that I was going to be the one to split family up.  I know that I'm not only one who has gone through this.  So yes I'm sure that MIL thinks I stole her baby from her.

First off, let me say if the parents feel you stole their son, that's just wrong.  Is this what they had to go thru with fil's parents when they were newly married?  Didn't they find it unacceptable?  You would think they would make sure not to recycle the old ways. 
   But what I wanted to say is...I heard this on a Dr. Phil a long long time ago, "what could the son/husband be telling his parents?"  does he go over there after fights and unloads on them?  does he tell them all the awful things that she said in a heated moment while he was just an innocent?  Do you think your husband could be kind of telling them bad things?  Or that they may take as bad?  Without you knowing?  I know all parents are different when you are the new kid on the block.  My ex inlaws were pretty bad too.  The inlaws I have now are great.  (Since I became pregnant with our son at 17, my exmil claimed I was a slut, whore, etc.  Not worthy of her lazy alcoholic son.  And she made no secret of it.  She was pretty rude to me from the first day I met her.)
  My son would come over with complaints about his girlfriend.  And her family.  I wanted no part of it!  I was understanding to a point but I would end up telling him you have two choices:  1.  take it and stay with her, or 2. don't take it and break up.  I never judged her at all.  In one ear out the other. 
   She never treated our family poorly while they were dating.  It was once the engagement ring was on her finger *placed on my birthday, she claims.  (Now, the day has a special meaning only to them, it seems to me.  It's no longer my birthday, it's the anniversary of their engagement.  And for awhile that was fine, too.  Until she started using up my dates to replace with her own personal things, which is just craziness on my part.  But I sure wonder why all of my birthdays:  dh, dd, mine and anniversaries, etc, just so happened to be days of importance to them??  Coinkydink?) 

Quote from: Anna on August 12, 2009, 01:44:02 PM
I wonder what our sons would think if they saw the way their wives bashed us, their mother's, on one of these sites?

Personally I don't think my son would care.  He let his feelings for me be known when he replied to my emails asking what was going on?  They were addressed to him.  She probably changed them to sound mean or something.  I don't know.
   They are adults.  He is on his own.  He doesn't have to bother me ever again.

Coinkydink? Oh, I love that word! How am I ever going to remember to use it?! ;D

    But what I wanted to say is...I heard this on a Dr. Phil a long long time ago, "what could the son/husband be telling his parents?"  does he go over there after fights and unloads on them?  does he tell them all the awful things that she said in a heated moment while he was just an innocent?  Do you think your husband could be kind of telling them bad things?  Or that they may take as bad?  Without you knowing?       She never treated our family poorly while they were dating.   

I'm not sure if I did the quote thing right or not, but the above is quote from Happydays09, just wanted to respond to her question.  The one thing that I noticed about my husbands conversations with his family over our entire marriage was that they were so vanilla.  Years ago I used to tease him about how all they talk about is mowing, the weather etc.. I didn't understand why their conversations were so vanilla because my family and I would talk about much deeper stuff.  Eventually he told me it was because he never wanted to give them any ammunition against me and he knew it would hurt them if they found out we did anything with family, so my family is never ever mentioned, its like they don't even exist.  We usually go out to my family for Thanksgiving and hubby's family for Christmas Eve.  One year we didn't go to my family's because my aunt was starting to get ill.  When my hubby told his dad on the phone that we weren't going out to my aunts for Thanksgiving and then we also didn't go out to the in-laws.  My hubby said to my FIL "Oh don't worry dad I promise we didn't go anywhere else, we just stayed home"  I thought he sounded very wimpy even the way he said it.  My FIL is very dominant and MIL and FIL are very critical judgementel against everyone.  If I had had an ounce of black in me I would have never been brought to their house.  But lucky for me I'm pure white.  I hope I'm painting an understandable picture of them.  My husband said not only does he not talk about me but they never even ask about me.  SIL is the same way, she will share only share minor information about her life.  One time my husband said to her in private is that he started feeling nervous around his parents when he married me.  And my SIL said she's felt nervous around them her whole life because she said "you just feel like you're being judged all the time."  Bottom line I think my husband felt nervous around them after we married because he knew that no matter what he did or what I did, they weren't going to like me because I invaded their exclusive little circle.  I'm sure you can tell I've been to counseling over this!

Quote from: luise.volta on August 13, 2009, 09:20:13 PM
Coinkydink? Oh, I love that word! How am I ever going to remember to use it?! ;D

:D :D  not sure!  ♥♥

just2be:  I sooo understand the stance you two take when dealing with these two impossibly immature adults.  You don't want to stir up the bees for sure!  What a mess.  Always trying to make sure you do the right thing for them.  I know this, for I have too as well with mine.  I found it really didn't matter to them-whether I jumped as high as they said, or bought the thing they told me to.

I was miserable all the time.

Husband and I had terrible rows before and after the family on his side get togethers.  I didn't understand them and they could not care less about me. 
    I decided I was going to take hold of my desires and wants/wishes and see if they meshed with their unrealistic demands on our time.  Not to mention manipulation!  (I saw a wonderful therapist myself during these times). 
   Sadly, dh went to many of his functions alone.  Oh well.  There were so many.  Long, boring, drawn out fiascoes.  I couldn't take it.  I went less and less.  It worked for me. 
   It is STILL working for me.  I do feel a bit more estranged.  I am not in all the gossip and the who is doing what of that family - and I don't care.  I have my own.  If they were to all fly off for the North Pole where phones/emails couldn't reach, my life would not be affected at all.  Don't care!!  :)
   When I am around them, I am as gracious as possible.  For I know it's just a matter of time before I am in the sanctity of my own car - driving home!!  Really.  It gets that bad sometimes. 
   But, there is always that "HAVE TO GO" thing:  wedding, funeral, etc.  Have to go. darn!
  Paste a smile, grab a hostess gift and make the best of it.  If they have anything to say later, I am NOT there to listen. 
Wow.  Sorry about that.  I just really can connect with you here.  Been there done that and I have TWO tee shirts!  LOL!! 
   Do your best, and forget about them!  Just concentrate on you, your husband, and your life together.  For that is what is important and what matters most!  ♥

Prissy, did you ever quote the author of this? It happens to be my FIL writing about me. It's funny though that I would admit to it. I have tried very unsuccessfully to get along with my ILs. We no longer speak to any of them. My DH hasn't spoke to his only sister in almost 5 years and we haven't spoken to his parents in over 3 years. I have emailed, sent B-day and anniversary wishes, let the grandchildren call them and they don't seem to care. Sometimes it's not only MILs who have had their heart broken, but their son's (and DILs) heart may be broken as well.

I keep hoping that it's not too late to mend things, but with their attitudes, it probably is.

sadDIL I hate to sound like a goof, but are you saying that your FIL is the real author of the How a DIL goes about........?

And may I be nosy and ask why your IL's are avoiding you guys.  It usually is other way around I assumed.  If you don't want to share I totally understand.

Yes he is (unless he stole it from somewhere, but I really doubt it). I can email you the link to his "wonderful" blog where it is posted, but I don't want to post it on here.

Our battles began many years ago. DH and I started dating in 1993 when I was 17 and he was 18. Yes we are still together and have 2 children. It has been a constant struggle with them. I would never say that it is all their fault and I know I have been partly to blame. BUT, I am not the total blame. There are many stories that I could tell where it was their fault and there are many I could tell that were my fault. The reason we haven't spoken is that we moved out of state away from them (and away from my own parents as well) to get better jobs (like over $20K more a year) and better schools for my children. I am a teacher and I would not even send my own children to the public schools there. If you reread How a daughter... then this is the last step. HAHA!

I have tried to reconnect with them and much of the time I feel like giving up. DH has given up and doesn't care to have anything to do with them at all. I know it hurts him tremendously to do so, but his own father posted that he was dead to them because of me. How unfair is that a man would choose to have a good life with the woman and children he loves and get disowned?!?!?!

I wonder to the MILs out there, have any of your DILs tried to reconnect and you refuse to do so? I don't understand when I have begged for DH and my childrens' sake to get over this. It's really sad and everyone tells me what goes around comes around, but it's hard to believe that when you are constantly hurting like we are.

What I read and re-read here is how hard we all try and that encourages me. And when we give up, that encourages me, too, because survival is often what prompts us to do that.

Every time someone says that it wasn't all the other person's fault, I am touched. These issues are so real and so hard. Perspectives (and needs) can be so different...and I feel love under all of it. I really do.

My eldest son passed away before we were able to fully resolve our differences and my DIL, after ripping me to pieces right after his funeral, moved on. Yet there was love.

quote from sadDIL: 
I wonder to the MILs out there, have any of your DILs tried to reconnect and you refuse to do so? I don't understand when I have begged for DH and my childrens' sake to get over this. It's really sad and everyone tells me what goes around comes around, but it's hard to believe that when you are constantly hurting like we are.

   In order for that to happen son/dil would need to answer the questions I put to them back in 04.  Why were those many many things done?  Some, I suppose I am ready for the "coincidental" explanation.  Or the "what do you mean?/we don't know/huh?"  or the "play dumb" explanation.  But not all.  Certainly not for the actual physical assault on me and my dd that CANNOT be explained away in any category.
  She will have to be willing to say why she and HER MOTHER chose to treat me and my family in this way.  I would be most interested in hearing her/his side. 
  So much was done.  I allowed it and took it for over two years.  It seemed any time my family and I were somewhat REQUIRED to be around them in the presence of HER family something happened to mine.  not worth the trouble!

Prissy; I will try to expand on my observations about the underlying love if I can.

My DIL sent me a poisonous letter nine days after my 52 year-old son son died of sleep apnea in 2000. He appeared healthy and happy and his death rocked our family to the core. He was an amazing man; an icon in the computer world for his work in computer C-compilers, a teacher at Microdoft University and the owner of his own company.

For me, that letter from my DIL came out of the blue. I knew she wasn't a happy person, by nature, and I knew she had serious issues with her mother but I thought her barely-veiled dislike of me was more about her personality and history than it was about me.

I also knew that my son had wanted to send me back to the drawing board since he was around 13. He wanted everything about me to be different but at the same time he tried to get past it. At the time he died, he had been calling me weekly for nearly five years just to chat. A month before his death, he had taken me to where he was doing contract work to show me an actual slide built into their building that went from one floor to the other; letting me use it...just for fun. Then we went to a movie at the Seattle Center about dolphins. It was the last time I ever saw him. (I'm surprised how hard it still is for me to write about that day. Whew...)

Back to the letter: it was pages and pages of how evil I was, what a rotten mother I was and how I was directly responsible for every negative experience in my son's life. I made the mistake of responding sympathetically regarding her shock and grief and, of course, got a second letter that made the first one look like a love note. I didn't see her or hear from her again for over five years.

I think that her love for my son was the underlying emotion behind her attack. I think she was posthumously defending him in some way out of loyalty and horrific despair. Yes, she ripped my heart out when it had just been irretrievably broken but under it all was her love for him. I sincerely believe that.

I wasn't the mother he accused me of being. That's my perception. That's my younger son's perception and as far as I know, that's the perception of everyone who knew both of us. He was my first-born and the center of my universe as only first-borns can be. I can't explain what went wrong in his teens...we tried counseling, a private school...you name it but he remained fixed on his "Somebody Done Me Wrong Song."

My point is that I believe that love, no matter how distorted, was the underlying principle. That's my experience. I believe he loved me until he died even though he wanted me to love him more or differently; I have no idea. We were never comfortable together after he entered his teens and I walked on egg shells for forty years...criticized, basically, for breathing...and not understanding. Never understanding. But love prevailed. 

When I got a Voicemail on June 20, 2000 from his youngest son, then in law school, saying to call him...that "something terrible had happened"...I knew. From his voice I knew nothing but the death of his dad could cause such anguish. I turned to my husband, nearly struck dumb by the impact of it, and said..."____is dead." At that exact moment, I "heard", "I'm fine, Mom."

I weep as I write this, of course; nine years is nothing, not really. No one else "heard" anything to the best of my knowledge. But I went through what was to follow at peace. I made a lovely scrap book of his life, from his first baby pictures to some of him with his granddaughter, and took it to his memorial which was held at their home. My DIL placed it on the dining room table; putting candles on both sides of it so everyone could look at it.

I feel love was what mattered to all of us. I think he wanted my love for him to "fix" everything that happened to him and I don't think it did or could after he entered his teens...that's only a guess. I think the love he shared with my DIL was strong but a little distorted and I think her love for him made her nuts for a while after he died.

And love is what is left. I saw my DIL at my grandson's wedding; (he's now an attorney in Seattle) and we hugged and visited. I think love can outlast and outweigh every other emotion. My deep-down belief is that it triumphs.

Regarding Prissy's original post about how DILs do what the do; I though it was original. It says on our Home Page: (Only your own original works, please, since we need to respect copyrights.)

I think I just violated that when I posted a little, humorous and anonymous prayer recently that someone in my senior community gave me. 

Prissy: I am sending love. I am. That is what heals. This website was my gift to you on Mother's Day of this year and I believe it is here that healing will occur when you allow it to; when any of us allow it to.

There has to be room for healing to take place. We all have to let go of being wronged and of being right. We must learn to cherish healing above all else and have others be the way they are. The painful experiences have to become just a story and the details have to become data. When the fire is fanned, it continues to burn and we live in the then, not in the now. When we can separate the two, love can enter the now for us. When that happens, it really doesn't matter if that's true for anyone else or not.

We can get support from others but no one can do the almost impossible work but ourselves. The operable word is "almost."

Love...not hate is the answer. No matter how much hate seems to rule, love is under it; somewhere. When we focus on that, it becomes a critical mass. It does.

Amen.

Prissy: I did, too. I should at least have written where I got that little prayer from and that it was anonymous and not called it "Luise's Prayer." None of us are doing this perfectly.

H/Ds: That makes a lot of sense to me. You are describing a huge elephant in the middle of the living room. I don't see how issues that have not been faced can be resolved. That just doesn't compute. They are still at the "What elephant?" stage. PULLEZZE!

Annie: What was your "Amen" about? We have lots going on here...(bless your hearts!)

Quote from: luise.volta on September 05, 2009, 08:31:14 AM
Annie: What was your "Amen" about? We have lots going on here...(bless your hearts!)

To your post right before that...

"Love...not hate is the answer. No matter how much hate seems to rule, love is under it; somewhere. When we focus on that, it becomes a critical mass. It does."

You say it all much more succiently and right to the heart and point  (I'd just done a long post which had kinda attempted to say the same thing, in a more roundabout way, lol)

http://www.wisewomenunite.com/index.php/topic,74.15.html

I wasn't trying to cause conflict. I have seen that website and no that's not the one he wrote. It was first written on his blog and copied to several other sites I have also seen. I agree that we shouldn't post the website, but don't play it off as if it is yours. I am not trying to stand up for him, after all the things he has written about me. I promise you that. I'm sorry everyone on this site is hurting in one way or another, but we have to come together to keep our own sanity. I know I am a DIL not a MIL, but sometimes we are hurting too. I started reading this forum to try and understand where I could have gone wrong, because my ILs really HATE me! I don't hate them like they think but they have always thrown in snide remarks that everything is my fault. As usual, there are 2 sides to every story. One day, maybe they will want to hear mine.

Luise!!  I am sooo sorry what you went thru after your son passed away.  I cannot wrap my brain around the need for anyone to send a missive like that to a grieving mom.
   What was she trying to prove?  What had he told her? 

  I feel the same in a way.  That suddenly this "woman" shows up and saves him from his terrible choices while his terrible mother just finds faults and brings his attention to each and every one. In my case, only.
   She wasn't there to bail him out of jail.  She wasn't the one that met with teachers/school board etc to plead for him to stay in high school one more year against the rules, she was NOT there to pay for every bad thing he did.  His family and I were!  Not her!  And I did put up with the terrible things he brought into our home.  She would also be the one to point out how awful I was to him and how she saved his life by standing by him thru thick and thin.  Right.  She needed to fulfill a dream of being married at a certain point in her life.  He just happened to be dating her after the first choice bowed out!
   She is delusional.  I was the one that put the "SEEK HELP WITH AA" clause on the loan to save his truck from repossession - that she needed to drive herself back and forth to school.
   (I once asked to borrow for a day, right after paying the $1300 of back payments, and was told by son, "No.  I have limited miles"  Limited to me.  Not her.  I was in shock BUT I TOOK IT.  Just like any unhealthy mother that loves and trusts her son to the core.  I was a fool)

   That dil of yours isn't human in my opinion.  If she had such an item to share why didn't she come to you to discuss?  If he was continuing his really great relationship with you, didn't it dawn on her you were worthy?  I don't get it.  Never will.  What drives these insane people to do the things they do.

 

Prissy - We can find love "under" things we can't find love "in." There was no love "in" my DILs hate mail to me right after my sons death.

Each of us, including H/D has to find the river of love under the conflict. I can't speak for her, but what I get from reading her posts is that any time her son and DIL are willing to admit to overt torture and apologize, she is open to listening and working at rebuilding. I get that her love is still factored in.

The saying "I love you but I don't love what you have done/are doing" is based on that.

H/D?

  I actually thought about this last night.  After seeing a furniture commercial?  ????
   I really feel this woman (dil) was expected to do these things by her very unbalanced mother who chose to hate me.  I also believe there was some type of incentive. DIL to be and I got along very well before the engagement.  Before the "DOMINATE ONE" came into the picture.
   It would just be very strange if they did ever decide to discuss what had happened.  I really have nothing to offer them financially or otherwise, and that is very important to them.  Why bother with people who have nothing to offer in terms of perks/cash/etc?  I truly believe this motivates them. 
   Her mother was on the other side of her along with her father to walk her down the aisle.  It appeared quite comical to me.  But her mother wanted to drill it in every body's head that she was paying for the shin dig when in reality it was daddy's money.  MOB did everything but grab the mike away from the officiant and tell everyone:  this wedding brought to you by ME.  Mother of the Bride.  Who is and always will be the one that Controls EVERYTHING!  Have a nice day. 


   

H/D - Well, it wasn't really a happy relationship...it was an unsatisfactory, tenuous, walk-on-eggshells relationship in which I/we monitored everything said. (He sitting on his "laundry list" and me scared I would say something to set him off.) The other side of the coin and the beauty of it was that we never gave up. A month before he died, on Mother's Day, he sent me fresh daisies in coffee cup that had a teddy bear holding the handle (with Velcro) and on the side it says, "Big Hug Mug."

His complaints, started around age 13, were about everything...how I spoke, sang, laughed, smiled and walked. Did mention cooked and drove? When his first child was born (at home), he called his brother, then in high school and without a clue about post-natal care, to come down and aspirate fluid out of the baby's mouth so mom and dad could get some much needed sleep. I'm a nurse! But my younger son was told the baby couldn't be exposed to me because of my "bad vibes."

The search for logic at the time or in retrospect, as far as I can see, is futile. My elder son passed all of that on to his wife...who had a very similar laundry list about her mother and they fed each other's anger. What followed was her letter(s) after he died.

And love still wins...hands down.

Prissy - So we opened this web-Forum to you only the first day and then made up the rules? I'm sure that's how it happened. What a hoot! ;D

And even though the rules make sense to me and we all need to read them every once in a while, I'm glad you opened with that "borrowed" list. It "birthed" the site and gave people something to think about.

Long live Prissy!

And in my heart, I am SO grateful for the DILs and FDILs who trust us enough to work with us on these issues. We need their vantage (or disadvantage) points of view.

There's that song again..."We are FAAAMMMIIILLLYYY...!"

Luise:   :o   is all I can muster right now. 
   How did you deal with that?  "Bad vibes"?  I have to honestly say that my situation sure doesn't seem all that bad now.  Or even what I had to go thru.  Teenage angst is pretty much a given.  But I can't even begin to figure out what was going on in your situation.   :o  still.  that smilie is sooo fitting!  For I am  :o
  I blame it on additives in the food industry today.  Causes severe brain chemistry imbalances.  I really do.  Environmental toxins.  Some are more susceptible.   
   

Quote from: Prissy on September 05, 2009, 10:49:16 AM
I know this doesn't count but HD's....you are the cutest thing!!!!

It's so hard to find LOVE in the midst of this silly grab for power.  Holy Moly...I have some learning to do.  I guess you have to keep your eyes open for a smidgen of LOVE somewhere. 

I DON'T GET IT!!! ???

  And I would still be taking it if it weren't for other family members bringing it to my attention that "hey you dummy, you gonna take this?"  over and over.
  Love is blind.  and trusting.  and all that.  Those two had no idea what they destroyed.  I may not have been able to buy them the most recent top drawer high tech toy or send them on an all expense paid trip to wherever their little hearts desired.  All I had was what they saw:  someone that loved them.  Who needs love when you can get a HD plasma wide screen?  Huh?
  Which would YOU choose.   :D

  I think it became a competition with her mother and me.  Her mother being the mean spiteful ever controlling shebat, with me just there if you need me!

 
   

 I am so sorry about what happened to you with your mom. That is truly sad. 
  And  I wish I had the answer Prissy.  I really do. It's a strange situation for sure. 

I guess that is why I choose to remain angry.
In order to mask or beat the crap out of the pain.

As long as I am ticked off, it won't hurt as much.
 
   

Prissy I wouldn't worry about what that other poster said about you being bitter.  I think sometimes that's apart of the grieving process after a loss.  I just think its important to exit that phase at some point, just for your own health.  Because stress isn't good for our health.  And I know that you know that you are a good person.

  I feel just as sweet figures into the mix so does a little bitter!  Bitter can be good! 
   I yam what I yam right now. just dealing.  No drugs. No alcohol.  Still finding special moments in the day to sit  in awe of something bigger than myself and say a quiet "thank you" for allowing me to be able to witness them. 
   I am so thankful to those I have surrounded myself with and you ladies are in my TOP FIVE!  I want to thank you all as well for all your inputs and helpers.   :-* :-*

   Those pesky steps.  Watch the first one. It's a doozy in the dark:
    *  Denial (this isn't happening to me!)  Check.
    * Anger (why is this happening to me?) Check.
    * Bargaining (I promise I'll be a better person if...)  Didn't get the chance.
    * Depression (I don't care anymore)  Check.
    * Acceptance (I'm ready for whatever comes) Almost there.  (In my personal listing, Bitterness is right after depression! LOL)

sadDIL,
How sorry that your FIL wrote those steps as accusations about you.  How interesting, and relieving, to find out that the orginal author is the one who his alientating his own son and family. Learning this about The Steps, is so soothing to me!  Thank you!

Many, many times I have lamented those very Steps!  I tried many times to stop my Fiance from talking to his mother about our issues, because I thought that was Step 3.  I thought this was something we were putting her through.  I questioned myself many nights, and still do.  As if by not doing what she wanted me to do, then it made me a bad future DIL.  As if by planning our future togther, we were cruel to not plan hers.

Thank you for sharing the truth about those steps.  My f-MIL has told other members of my fiances family that I have stole him from her, that I am trying to break up their family, that I am a gold-digger, that I don't care about her, that I disrespect her. When really as time goes on it seems to reveal what she says about me, is what is the truth about her motivations.  Much like your FIL. 

My fMIL does have many good qualities.  I do love her.  I want her in our lives, but she has driven her son away from her with the way she treats and speaks of me.  I deeply respect that as a single mother she raised my fiance into the wonderful man he has become.  I have tried to please her but I simply did not have enough hours or energy to do so.  She has taken that as a personal affront, and it breaks my fiance's heart and my own.  And the things she says about me, are about her.   She is trying to break up the family by turning my fiance's aunt and grandmother against him and me. She does have respect for her son and myself, only as long as we are doing exactly what she wants us to do.  She wants access to her son's money as she had when he was younger, and she sees him spending it on our future as being taken from her. 

Knowing the author of the Steps, is a man and dysfunctional parent who is actually Doing those steps TO his own family, is the most wonderful knowledge. 

Thank you.  I'm sorry for your husband and yourself, and your children.  And for the wonderful family his family is choosing to miss out on being a part of.

She wants access to her son's money as she had when he was younger, and she sees him spending it on our future as being taken from her.

   It is a good thing you both see this.  Now prepare.  Don't get angry.  She has to eventually "give up".  Sounds as if she is paranoid or something.  Don't read into it.  Don't let her gossip get to you.  Keep lines open with ALL family - together.  Don't react.  Be as kind as possible.    It will be work but it will happen.  Unless she is losing her mind.  Then, I cant really suggest anything.
   Space and time.  That heals all. 
   

Hi everyone,

I am new here. I have seen so many sites where MIL's are trashed but nothing for the MIL so I consider this a blessing. I really need a place to connect with other Moms.

In my first post, I just want to say, " Hats off to the lady who wrote " Death of a Mother in Law " she got it sooo right and I have been through all 5 stages now.  :'(

Welcome Mom2 - I'm sure that you will find much needed support from the mom's on this site.

I have been through all 5 stages now

I'm sorry you've been through the stages.  I hope you can work through it.  Hopefully its not too late for you.  But I bet after a while you will learn some great stuff from the other mom's.  I'm a DIL with rejectful IL's and I have learned a lot from being on here.  Again, welcome.  :D

I just want to say, "I'm so sorry, Mom2".  I couldn't be more sorry....it's the hardest thing you'll ever do.  I have found myself with my health ruined now because I let an insecure woman make me think I was nothing.  How pathetic.

Don't wait 16 years to see this!!  It will make such a difference in your ability to fight off illness.  Grief does that. I don't know your story but I can guess.  We've been there.

Hang in there and we are here with you, lots and lots of us! 

Hi Mom2, Thank you for your kind words about our site. Please share your story with us when you feel that's appropriate. We're here for you. We have all seen great damage done on both sides of the fence until the fence is torn down. And there are times when that's just not possible. We carry our hurts, (conscious and unconscious), into our adult lives and we often run up against others with different burdens, whose needs don't match ours. Within the structure of the extended family, that can wreck havoc. Blessings, Luise

Luise.. Thank you for welcoming me ! just2baccepted, I'll take ya  !! I'd love to have a DIL ( to get along with ) and Chikiebaby, I have really enjoyed your posts. You seem to be in the same boat I'm in.

I do know this for sure, I will get through this and I value who I am. I have also proved I can live without the drama in my life ! AND if I never have my family back, I just hope they live for God because he is who matters anyhow.

The one thing that I refuse to allow my son or DIL to take away from me is that I was a good Mom and Grandma and I know I was. 

                                       Till next time

Anna,
My hope for every young woman who might read our stories is that they never have to go through what we've had to go through.

It is too much to bear.  It's like when someone goes through a terrible loss for no reason, they always say, "I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy". 

I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.  I mean that...it's too much for a Mother to go through. You never expect it, never.  The best wish I could have for anyone out there is to not get involved with your DIL at all....

She's not your friend, she will not care for you and she has no vested interest in your life exept to do what she needs you to do.  You, as a Mother, have it all backwards.  You think if you just try harder, be better, do more that she will grace you with a tiny bit of kindness.

She won't.  Say goodbye to your son when he gets married.  It will be the saddest goodbye of your life.  That's your price for having a son. 

Hi ladies,

I'll try this again. I did post some brief history on my story but I guess I posted it in the wrong place.

MY DIL and son were fine for the first 2 yrs they were married and then all of a sudden, I was the worst nightmare of their life.. well, it was all the DIL  at first but then my son joined the chorus and I believe he treated me worse than she did ( anyway, it hurt more ).
Chikiebaby, you are so right when you said " don't ever get involved with your DIL because she is not your friend !" but then again, I know there are some good ones out there somewhere.

When my DIL became distant with me , I went to her to talk and she said " oh, it's not you, it's me " and " when my husband is around you, I feel very pushed aside ".
I tried to explain to her that what we have are two completely different loves . I also tried building her up in my sons presence but nothing made a difference. I went to her once and told her " For whatever I have done to hurt or offend you, I am very sorry".  needless to say... nothing changed.
She simply was not going to allow me in her life.

I have been told that I am moody and need anger management ( when some nasty thing they said to me made me angry ). I even had a snippy letter in my mailbox saying I am the lowest of the low... written by my son. I was told once that I don't even have to actually say anything because I know how to speak in secret messages that only my DIL  can understand... OH MY GOSH... WHAT IS THAT ??

I finally decided to just let go of the whole situation and rid the drama. I don't even want a relationship with him or her now. I seldom see them, I don't call... nothing. If my son calls me, I am polite but I never ask any questions or bad mouth his wife. I admit too that I dodge them if they want to come over because I feel very judged around them and most of all , I don't trust them to let them back in my life.

I have been discredited as a Mother , Grandmother and a woman.

I know I am his Mother and I know I am supposed to forgive but I just wonder how much a mom is supposed to take ? My love for him will never change but my heart is just not in it anymore.
God help them when their son gets married.

Ditto, Mom2....almost to a tee except mine started the day after the wedding. She was pure butter before.

I'm afraid to tell all that happened, the world seems to be so small. I felt sorry for her after son broke off with her and got them back together after her working on me non-stop.  I fell for it.

She is a bull and I don't want to be around her either.  The whole place seems like a morgue when she is in it.  She brings a pall over the place like a huge cloud. 

I don't want them here at Thanksgiving....because of her, I hate the holidays. I once loved them and so did our kids.  She has caused irreparable damage in our life. I wish I'd never seen her face.

I guess she's coming here to get her presents.  I think I told you about the dust that she says is here (maid once a week)  Sometimes I want to bring Prissy out of the attic when I'm around her so she can take care of it. 

I'm sick of being the punching bag, they know I'm sensitive so they know they can hurt me.  I think that makes her feel big and victorious. 

Chickiebaby,

God Bless you. Although I am glad to know I am not alone, I hate to see others who have been treated like I have.
I can't stand my Dil either but my son is not exempt because he allowed all this and he helped her do it; I was tag teamed. Before all this happened, they ( her too ) were my heartbeat as far as loving them.

I wish my problem had started right after the wedding because I wouldn't have had a little Grandson yanked from my life.I would rather have not loved than to have him yanked from my life.

I can't even look at them and not be reminded of how they have treated me. So if a happy little life ,without me in it, is what they wanted, they got it. They lost too... a Mother who loved them, a safe place for their children , holidays etc...

                                                             Peace



                                                              Peace

Dear Mom2,
Every word you said breaks my heart because I don't want anyone to know this kind of pain.  It's the exact same pain I felt when my Mother died.  I was 7.   I do wish they had shot me.  I would have at least not had to see and feel all this.

Can anyone recommend a book on how to be a B***?  I would like to know how to become one.  I need training on how to treat people badly, not because I want to but to know how to love myself so that I won't be a punching bag.   Anyone?

Hi all - I'm new to this site, and I've been a MIL for just over a year. Everyone's stories are so touching, and some are exactly like mine. I was totally blindsided by my DIL's rejection and apparently hatred for us after the wedding (now in hindsight I realize there were signs right before and during the wedding, but we chalked them up to pre-wedding stress.) My son is not happy about this, but we've told him his wife comes first - if they need counseling or whatever they should get it, as my son is keen to do. Of course, my heart is broken and I'm looking forward to being shut out of any future grandchildren's lives as well. We've been great in-laws! We never pop in, only stopping by when they request because they need something from us. We paid part of their rent, helped them move, helped them clean, loaned them a car, etc. etc. We paid what we could for the wedding but apparently didn't do enough. What I need are suggestions on how to move on? I've been journaling and my husband and I try to stay busy with work, recreation and house projects - what else should I be doing??

Penstamen,

Welcome ! I am new too but have already found all things in common with a lot of wonderful Moms/ladies.

My advice to you is , don't even try to do anything more.. leave it alone because it is her problem.
Some DIL's are just NOT having the MIL in their ' husbands ' lives. I just hope your son doesn't turn on you. It took mine awhile but they got the job done.  Letting her know you don't care is probably her best medicine. Again, welcome.                                             Mom2

Chickiebaby,

If ya find the book I will need a copy of that.

I could write a book on what all has been said and done to me.

                                                                                 
                                                                                Mom2

                                                         

Welcome Pestamen,
Our club is hard to get through and I think Mom2's advice about letting them know you don't care is the best advice if you can do it.

I can't seem to...I'm stuck and if anyone can name a book on how to become a B***, please let me know!!!  I mean it.

I am SO sorry,  Penstemen!  I spelled your name wrong!! So sorry.

once again....Penstamen

I think it's sometimes hard to show we don't care when we care so deeply...but we can always decide no to play. It's a no-win situation and when we react to being baited and let it take us down...we become part of the walking-wounded.