I know I'm a newbie and a DIL that's swimming in a pool of mostly MIL's, but I'm also the mother of a teenage son and I know that someday he will marry. My prayers for him have always been for his health and safety, and that his eyes will always be open to the truth. I'm ever more praying though that I will not become a MIL toward any future DIL of mine like my MIL is towards me.
That being said, I wanted to share a book that was extremely helpful to both my DH and I. I don't intend this to be a MIL basher, but an eye opener.
The book is: Toxic In-Laws by Susan Froward, PhD
I know that my story, as is everyone else's, is unique. My MIL truly is bipolar and I personally believe she's genuinely narcissistic, but this is also the woman that raised my DH, so her behavior was his normal. He really didn't know any different and refused to believe any different either. He was raised to believe that everyone else lived in dysfunctional families except for them, they were perfect. My DH was 27 before he read this book and found out that his "perfect " world was just as imperfect as the rest of ours except he had spent the last 27 years being manipulated.
Hi Sunny1 and welcome
thanks so much for this and please, please feel free to post whenever you need to....yu are not only swimming among mil's as there are a lot of dil's here to....
thanks so much for coming in and for this reading tool.
Welcome Sunny! Thanks for the book suggestion and as an MIL I can tell you that I appreciate the DILs in here taking the time to help us as well. I like to read things like this because sometimes I go, "Uh oh...I do that."
Hi Sunny! I've read that book, DH and I both did, when were were facing issues with his mother. It really is a great tool, but not only for it's values ith ILs, but for its value in facing anyone who poisons your spirit (coworkers, acquaintences, etc.).
Lots of great tools in that book...thanks for posting. :)
Yes, that's a good one! However we are raised, that's the norm. My mother never touched me or said she loved me. I didn't miss it because I didn't know any better. The time comes, however, when we find out and need to commit to healing. Sending love.
Luise, I absolutely agree. My DH and I are are still in the healing phase. Acknowledgement and acceptance were the biggest hurdles for my DH and our relationship has suffered dearly due to his prolonged lack of acknowledgment of her behavior and motives. The book was an eye-opener to him because he began to see his mother's exact behavior oozing from nearly every chapter.
We've since worked on reading books on narcissism as we kind of think that's her main underlying issue, but its not easy. He was raised to always put both his mother's and sister's feelings first for everything, so its perpetuating. His sister is also a selfish, entitled person that has always manipulated both DH and his dad.
I couldn't imagine ever walking all over my son in the way she has done to hers. We really want to eventually find a way to have peace with her, but there's still a part of me that still just wants to bash her with a baseball bat and bang a little sense into her. ;) ...Don't worry...I really wouldn't do that.
Yes, finding peace is the goal. However, there are people we can't find peace with because they can't find peace within themselves. Unfortunately, it ends up having to be a unilateral experience.
You are doing great work!
Oh Sunny - if it were only that easy. :)
It is frustrating, loving a man who already has a wife in his mother. When they discover what a real, loving, compromising, husband/wife relationship is supposed to be like, they begin to slowly withdraw from Mom...and that's generally where the friction begins. For folks like this, the DIL is to blame for that withdrawal almost instantly, I think because it's difficult, even impossible for them to see the damage they've done already. And even the mere idea that they no longer have that control over their sons is apocolyptic in thier minds. I could have written every word of what you wrote myself, and you will be surprised how many DILs there are on this forum facing the exact same issues with passive-aggressive, narcissistic, and/or just plain nasty-hearted MILs. We're not alone!
It helps me to be on this forum, to read the wise words of the MILs on here and their infinite waterfall of input is refreshing. The positivity and encouragement is amazing, and I hope you feel that too. It helps me to know that there are MILs out there who really wanted to have that good relationship, but weren't afforded that opportunity. I would love to have just about any one of the MILs here as my MIL.
I don't have all the answers on how to deal with my MIL, but I'm in a similar boat with you...I'd like to someday have a relationship with my MIL, but right now DH and I are healing and trying to repair our own relationship from the damage she caused. Maybe someday. But it goes for any "poisonous" passers-through in our lives...all we can do is pity them for all they are losing out on by being the way they are. Their children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, friends, and other family members alike have to suffer because of them. But you're right, hating them brings nothing positive, nor does bashing their heads in....as good as that sounds sometimes! So all we can do is cope with the loss, and that's where the encouragement of these ladies is so priceless.
Welcome Sunny - I'm glad you're here. :)
Thanks for the warm welcome ladies. ;D
Hi All,
I am a future DIL and just finished reading this book! I knew about the book before joining this forum. Believe me, it has done wonders to understanding the Kung-Fu grip my future MIL has on her son (She is a single mother and his the only child). As the book outlines, she is a classic "Rejector" of me and our relationship. Thank God for Dr. Forward's work because I thought I did something wrong and really most difficult MIL are fighting "demons" that have nothing to do with the DIL.
I highly recommend this book to DIL, MIL, and the sons that feel like they are in the tug of war. Although, my partner is/has been wonderful at beginning to see how toxic his mother is to him and our relationship. He understands that in preparing for a healthy marriage & immediate family that I, his future wife-not his mother, is his number one priority. She has enjoyed and done a wonderful job raising this brilliant and compassionate man, and that I am forever grateful. But for the last 28 years she has been number one-key word-been. His mother is fighting that fact. I also realize that my mother, his future MIL is no saint either. My mother suffers from Narcissism! I have been setting firm and loving boundaries with her to minimize her toxic influence on me and my relationship with him.
I hope that others that have read this book, maybe we can dialogue and show support in this difficult time.
Thanks for sharing Sunny1
"I'm ever more praying though that I will not become a MIL toward any future DIL of mine like my MIL is towards me."
Hi Sunny~~~I had the "worst" MIL that walked the face of the earth!!! I also promised myself I would never be like her and I am not!!! For we learn thru them to be great MIL's and you will be...
Hugs...Faith
Hi, I just discovered a book while looking for in Sheeps clothing on ebay. (It abeen highly reccommended on WWU.
The book I also found on ebay and i have only ordered it which may be of interest is called Emotional Vampires by Albert J Bernstein.
This is what is written about this book. If anyone has read it please post your opinions.
If I'd had a copy of this book when I started therapy, I might have saved myself a lot of time and money. Bernstein provides a field guide to the various types of Emotional Vampires and advises readers how to protect themselves from being victims of these predatory personalities." - Diane White, "The Boston Globe". Emotional Vampires: They're out there ...masquerading as ordinary people. They may lurk in your office, your family, your circle of friends; perhaps they even share your bed. Chances are, you know all too many of them. Bright, talented, and charismatic, they win your trust, your confidence, and your affection - then drain you of your emotional energy. But take heart as you walk through the darkness, it doesn't have to be that way - the more you know about vampires, the less power they have over you.Here, Dr. Albert J. Bernstein, vampire-slayer and author of the best-selling "Dinosaur Brains and Neanderthals at Work", reveals the secrets that will protect you once and for all. Detailing a whole range of personality types and human responses, Bernstein shows you how to spot the "vampires" in your life: self-serving Narcissists, hedonistic Antisocials, exhausting Paranoids, or over-the-top Histrionic drama queens. And, with valuable advice, psychological perspective, and much-needed humor, he gives you a range of defense strategies that are guaranteed to keep the blood-sucking creatures of darkness from draining you dry. By the end of "Emotional Vampires", you'll be armed with superior knowledge, a treasure chest of vampire-slaying tools, and all the confidence you need to take on the most draining people in your life and win without shedding the first drop of blood.
Fascinating! I know the feeling well of having the energy sucked out of me. Sending love..
May I add 3 more BOOKS which are totally awesome and full of insight.
1) When Parents Hurt By: Joshua Coleman PhD.
2) Boundaries By: Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend
3) Safe People By: Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend
WOW, I wish they had these books out Y E A R S ago... Faith
Quote from: luise.volta on January 13, 2011, 09:31:24 PM
Fascinating! I know the feeling well of having the energy sucked out of me. Sending love..
ditto, and find the description "emotional vampires" to be quite accurate.
Another great book is "Healing from Family Rifts" by Mark Sichel, CSW......Jill
I am sure I am a "Toxic" mother-in-law, as considered by my abandoning son and his wife and the author of this disgusting book
I find such global statements as "toxic in-laws" unworthy of discussion. Just as I would a book entitled "Toxic Daughter-in-laws."
But, of course, people make a great deal of money out of offing families for such purposes. And of course this woman finds
an audience among young women who wish to control their husbands and decimate his family of origin due to their own psychopathology.
I also find it extremely offensive to entitle any human being as "toxic." We are not born poisoned, nor do we somehow
become poisoned, thus we are not "toxic." What a terrible label to give to any human being. What a terrible legacy to pass to grandchildren.
Kathleen
Kathleen, the "t" word rubs me the wrong way, too. My SM used it to describe me when I asked if I could occasionally speak to my DF on the phone w/o her listening in. When I questioned DF about it, he said, "Well, some people are just toxic," copying her phrase. Since then it makes me gag when I hear people so labeled. What a horrible way to dehumanize someone and make them unworthy of any consideration or interaction.
I haven't read the book - the title put me off, obviously. The other books mentioned sound interesting, especially "When Parents Hurt." I passed that title on to a friend whose son just cut her off. I hope it helps her; I haven't read it either.
Toxic - Yes, it is a word that has been tossed around here about as much as narcissistic. I haven't read the book either but I'm sure that any MIL with a thought process of her own can probably be labeled 'toxic'. Good thing I wasn't labeled before I became pregnant with my son, goodness with a high level of toxicity in my system, he could have been born with 3 heads.
Ok, I am going to take the opposite stance on this one...Lol. I find the title just that...a book title. I read Women are from Venus and Men are from Mars years ago, but I didn't actually think either one of us originated from those planets. I think a title of a book is just like a title of movies, tv shows, whatever...meant to capture the reader or movie goer.
The word "toxic" doesn't bother me, because I do think people can be "toxic". I think this one boils down to personal experience. Like Pen said, she has a reason to not like the word because it brings back a bad memory. I don't like the word "hater" because my DIL used to say all the time when something wasn't going her way, "Don't be a hater". Still makes me cringe every time I hear someone use that phrase now.
I have read many books that when I am done, I say, "Ok, that idiot doesn't know what she/he is talking about." But I know that somewhere, there is an audience for it. If I want someone to agree with me all the time, I could walk in the bookstore and pick up 10 copies right now of books that were written exactly with what I wanted to hear. But just like on this forum, I like to hear different perspectives and so I read all kinds of different things. I may not agree with the entire concept of the book, but I usually learn something.
I call my DIL narcissistic because Luise says we can't use curse words on here and that is the nicer word!
LOL... ok you do that Pooh... I think people tend to latch onto words as they do a new clothing fashion. Narcissistic, happens to be a member of the word of the month club... that's not to say that it can not and should not apply to some people, but it seems like everyone of us can carry a title. Mine is b.... oh wait can we talk about female dogs here? I thought Brittney Spears, Toxic.. was a catchy tune but once again to many are making a "T" symbol with their fingers like they are warding off a vampire, with a cross.
But this does give me the opportunity to ask Kathleen about something that has bothered me for a while and I can not find an answer. Pooh you brought up the phrase, "Don't be a hater" or I've heard people say, "You're such a hater" my least favorite, "don't hate on me" my question... Is this proper grammar? Like you Pooh, those phrases just grate on my nerves.
words dont' bother me either Pooh, they're just words, and they can't hurt you....unless you let them....
My Take, I think we have become way to sensitive about words and so many things in this world that we used to laugh at, and sometimes wonder how a stand up comedian like Rodney Dangerfield, Don Rickles, and many others who not only took jabs at ethnics, but also political figures, and such...those guys made me belly laugh and back then, people could find humor in things...much more quickly then today....
today, so many things offend us, that I have to wonder, if this generation and the next have become way over sensitive to the point of needing to control others....in a big way....
I am Italian, and loved those ol Italian jokes, and the jabs they took at everyone, including the Dean Martin Roasts....wow, were they ever fun...
My point is, my take is, we get to hung up on the small stuff, why is that, is it because today, our worlds are much smaller? I think that has a lot to do with it, also, to me, it seems as if people are way to sensitive about everything? Why? Because they choose to be...
Like the lady who fell in the fountain texting, that video went all over the world, and now, what does she do, of course, she is suing the mall for releasing the tapes, why, Because poor thing, everyone's laughing at her....
Yanno what, she gave a whole lot of people joy...in watching that video...for a few moments, until the time she fell in that fountain people laughed...and I mean laughed....and felt good....we all for a few seconds forgot about our simple, mundane worlds and troubles and laughed....thanks to her...but, she is suing the mall....
Words are words, and when people laugh, with you or at you, that is the best medicine in the world and laughing is for free, so rather then take offense to such words....I laugh...or don't even give it a second thought...why? Because people are allowed to think and feel as they like, so, if you can't find humor in life, then what's life all about....Censorship is the root of all evil and when you start taking offense to words, well....?????? That worries me....
Just my feelings and 2 cents...and how I choose to look at things....I'd rather laugh then cry, and would rather look at the positive then negative, and be happy rather then choose to look for all the things in this world that are going to upset me....?
Since words are one of our main means of communication, it would be hard for me to accept that they are simply words. Words are often used to comfort a hurt child, words express how we feel upon learning of someones passing, words can be weapons laced with hatred.
In the right setting, any single word can bring laughter, or sorrow, depending on how it's used. If a word was just a word would be be referring to some words as "The N word"? I'll agree that people need to lighten up and I too feel that we've all become to sensitive.. but the example of the lady texting and falling into a fountain. Did the mall profit from her embarrassment? Who did they sell that video to? Is the reason for having security videos in public places for security purposes or for the worlds entertainment. I would probably laugh at the video and then I'd sue the mall for sure.
I'd love for Kathleen to jump back into this discussion Since Kathleen made her living off of delivering words, I'd like to hear her take.
Laurie
regarding the woman who fell into the fountain....
Our neighbors had a dog, which I was terrified of....they used to let it out free and it was a bitter, I was walking on the other side of the street, and watching the dog so closely, I walked dead on into a lamp post....and laughed like crazy afterwards...
The woman was texting...wasn't watching where she was going...I've had many people do that, and almost walk right into me....so, yeah, I think it's funny...it was her misgiving....she created the issue, she is responsible, the mall didn't Sell it to anyone, it was placed on U-Tube, so maybe someone else caught it on they're cell...the woman claims embarrassment and is so upset b/c everyone is laughing....tough, and maybe she learned her lesson, b/c maybe she also drives and does texting? Who knows, maybe she doesn't, however, she is responsible for her own actions, and she goofed...Remember the show, "People do the darnest things" They'd have a field day with this one...or how bout American's funniest video's....frankly the woman should be laughing at herself, thanking fate for a lesson learned....b/c of her someone could get really hurt....
Using the N word, is going way beyond the scope of funny....and not what I'm referring to, that to me is an unacceptable word, and as most probably feel....however, this thread bought up the word toxic, and narcissistic....who other then a licensed doctor could effectively diagnose someone's behavior....
Yes, words are words and we all throw them around....I'm not talking about the far end of the scope or the extreme, I'm talking about today, everyone is offended by everything, so much so, that we have to be very careful what we say....and I think, personally, from my point of view...not yours or anyone else's here...it's foolish and controlling...fine, if someone feels that way, I cannot dictate to them how to feel....but me, what works is to try and see the humor in things more so then take offense, and laugh, laugh, laugh until the cows come home....
and I say that a lot, as a joke, ("please don't hate me," along with a funny face) and get a laugh out of it, b/c it's way beyond the scope of what that person and I are discussing...If it grinds you fine...what grinds me, is when people constantly say, I hate this or I hate that....bad way of presenting yourself and to me, seems rather juvinile...however, that's people, and I can't stop people from talking or feeling....the way they do...no matter how I feel, that's life and people....and we all come in different packages....and I'm not disagreeing with anyone here, this is strickly my point of view, which doesn't make you wrong Laurie....
it's simply the way two different people feel about things...me, I'd rather look for the humor and laugh....
To me, labeling people with trite words and phrases is part of the problem we are all facing. How cheap and easy for sons and daughters and their spouses to dump their "toxic" family members. Who want to be around a "toxic" person, anyway? Great excuse to get them out of your life.
To me, this kind of labeling is no different than racial, religious, or gender slurs. It is taking an entire group---mother-in-laws---and giving them a derogatory name. It is also a meaningless name. What is "toxic?" Do we smell bad? Are we full of poison in our blood? Is it possible we are contagious and can give some dread disease to the precious grandchildren? Think of some religious slurs you've heard about certain religions and see if they aren't very similar kinds of labels.
Toxic shmoxic. Words and labels do hurt and create real damage, as evidenced by races in this country that have suffered for centuries because of slurs, labeling, and put-downs, kept out of employment and educational opportunities and worse. (Take any weeping five-year-old coming home from kindergarten with a bad story about being called names; do you still think words don't hurt?) That also goes for what has happened to women, the labeling, the putdowns.
Such books also create an ingroup: we are the good people, the non-toxic people, and our MIL's are the toxic people. That is very inviting to a lot of folks. It's like the old cowboy movies with the white horse guys as the good guys and the black horse guys as the bad guys. Simple, easy, pat, no thinking involved. Cool mental entertainment for a boring Saturday afternoon. Then you can watch the football game instead of having Mom-and-Dad-in-law over for dinner.
I'm sorry, Pooh, I always appreciate your perspectives, but this time I have to disagree with you. I feel this book is a sick attack on a group of which I'm a member. (I've looked at the book, but I certainly would not waste money buying it.) I hope I have not been rude, but I can't let this one go by without comment. It really makes me upset. I have stood up against a town in a very meaningful way once against bigotry and prejudice and will keep on doing so. That's exactly what books like this purvey: it's just not widely known that this is bigotry against a group in a different disguise. You may have a different take on the word "bigotry."
That's all I have to say.
Kathleen
You are misunderstanding what is being said about the word hate.. it's not hate that I was asking about but the word "hater".. do not hate me.. makes sense.. I'm asking about the use of "do not be a hater, or you are such a hater" etc.
Ok, so we have a word that offends most people.. the dreaded "N-word", yet it is a vital part of most black comedians performances. Once again any word can be used to arouse a variety of emotions. The word toxic that you do not take offense with is not offensive in itself, that I agree with, but used here it is often meant to explain a deep resentment of one's behavior.
Back to the video... I agree, people do some of the dumbest things and many times I thought that even I could have won the 10,000.00 grand prize on Funniest Videos... but the difference is.. the people in the video signed releases saying that they didn't mind them being used. Once again this mall had no business releasing even a portion of a tape to the public. Surveillance tapes are for our safety, and by design only released to law enforcement etc... not to take exerts for entertainment purposes.
Quote from: kathleen on January 20, 2011, 07:57:55 AM
To me, labeling people with trite words and phrases is part of the problem we are all facing. How cheap and easy for sons and daughters and their spouses to dump their "toxic" family members. Who want to be around a "toxic" person, anyway? Great excuse to get them out of your life.
To me, this kind of labeling is no different than racial, religious, or gender slurs. It is taking an entire group---mother-in-laws---and giving them a derogatory name. It is also a meaningless name. What is "toxic?" Do we smell bad? Are we full of poison in our blood? Is it possible we are contagious and can give some dread disease to the precious grandchildren? Think of some religious slurs you've heard about certain religions and see if they aren't very similar kinds of labels.
Toxic shmoxic. Words and labels do hurt and create real damage, as evidenced by races in this country that have suffered for centuries because of slurs, labeling, and put-downs, kept out of employment and educational opportunities and worse. (Take any weeping five-year-old coming home from kindergarten with a bad story about being called names; do you still think words don't hurt?) That also goes for what has happened to women, the labeling, the putdowns.
Such books also create an ingroup: we are the good people, the non-toxic people, and our MIL's are the toxic people. That is very inviting to a lot of folks. It's like the old cowboy movies with the white horse guys as the good guys and the black horse guys as the bad guys. Simple, easy, pat, no thinking involved. Cool mental entertainment for a boring Saturday afternoon. Then you can watch the football game instead of having Mom-and-Dad-in-law over for dinner.
I'm sorry, Pooh, I always appreciate your perspectives, but this time I have to disagree with you. I feel this book is a sick attack on a group of which I'm a member. (I've looked at the book, but I certainly would not waste money buying it.) I hope I have not been rude, but I can't let this one go by without comment. It really makes me upset. I have stood up against a town in a very meaningful way once against bigotry and prejudice and will keep on doing so. That's exactly what books like this purvey: it's just not widely known that this is bigotry against a group in a different disguise. You may have a different take on the word "bigotry."
That's all I have to say.
Kathleen
Kathleen, I can see your point of view and understand it, however, my question is, where do you draw a line? I mean, what is happening is, that people are becoming offended by everything...and to me, they are insisting on censorship of traditions and values, and the ability to laugh at things....while I understand, where your coming from and do agree, some things are just nasty and bullying, in the same, they are just words and words can only hurt you if you allow them to.
Also, as far a bigotry of certain nationalities, it's come a long long way from back in the 1800's. Your never going to be able to control those who still live they're lives hating....and those people are shallow minded and to me, very unintellectual....
I don't think your being rude....and understand the sensitivity of your feelings...on bigotry and prejudice, and because you had a problem with it, well it makes me sad....yanno why, b/c you are scared for life, due to someone else's hate....so, now when ever you hear just the slightest comment, it's bigotry and prejudice, just Like I am hypersensitive to child molestors....and right away want to "HANG EM!"
However, I honestly feel, that there are way to many people who hold on to those words as an excuse to not work and take, take, take....and use them to they're credit and our wallets...
So, I guess what I'm trying to say, there are two sides to this....and I do know a lot of DIL's out there who do not have problems with they're MIL's who would pick up the book and go...hmmmm, I'm curious to how this author feels and what they have to say, not that it is going to sway they're convictions/personal institituions, in any way, maybe if nothing more, then for a good laugh....but these women are not super sensitive....
When we experience something bad in our lives, it takes away innocence, and we tend to go to the other end of the spectrum...instead of remaining nuetral and being able to sort the dirty laundry from the clean...simply ignoring it, and getting on with life...not wasting any time, freting over such things....
Does that make sense?
The word "toxic" to me describes a substance that is universally poisonous and harmful to all life. Toxic materials are immediately contained in strong containers and then carefully disposed of. I can't think of anyone around me, even those who've hurt me deeply, who qualify for that label. Again, the term puts a human being into the category of trash to be quarantined, cut off, and ignored. It should be used sparingly and only for those who truly qualify, not thrown around casually by inexperienced young people to promote their agenda of cutting off ILs.
Kids use the terms "retarded" or "gay" derisively; as the mother of a precious developmentally disabled child, and the relative/close friend of many wonderful gay people, I find those terms offensive. Those words separate "us" from "them" thus making "them" unworthy of the rights and liberties we should all have as humans. A co-worker actually told me my disabled daughter was "stealing resources from the normal people in our community." He felt meeting her needs was a misuse of funds since she "wasn't going anywhere anyway." Oh, he added "no offense.." making his hateful comments OK in his mind, I guess. I can't imagine ever thinking it was acceptable to talk about someone's child that way, but this man had dehumanized my precioius daughter making it fine to dispose of her.
Any terms that are directed at a person, or group of people, and are meant to dehumanize that group or express hatred for them, are more offensive to me than the f-bomb or other swear words. Not that I enjoy hearing gutter language all day long (been to a teen gathering place or construction site lately?) but I'd rather hear that than hate language.
Although I appreciate the "I'm Sorry Pooh" it is totally unnecessary I assure you. I love your perspectives too and I love that we all don't agree on everything, or else I would never examine the other side.
I guess I should have explained myself better. I do think there are words that are very hateful and hurtful. But I also think that it is the context of the words and how we use them that is hateful. Not the actual words. And I do believe there are toxic In-Laws, but I don't label the entire group of in-laws that way. Just like I have a difficult DIL, but I don't think the majority of DILs are that way just because mine is. I call my DH "Idiot". Someone hearing this may think I am being mean and telling him he is not intelligent. But the truth is, we love to watch "Everybody loves Raymond." And she calls Raymond idiot all the time and it has become an inside joke to us. But I wouldn't look at a coworker and call them idiot, because that would be offensive.
I just ordered my DH a book off amazon called "How to Work for a Jerk", because he is dealing with a very difficult boss right now and is trying to figure out how to work with him better, because he is struggling. I have a wonderful boss and have no need for the book, but I will read it to maybe give me some insight on how to work better with difficult people. I do see what you are saying, I really do and I agree that no entire group should be labeled.
Pen, we were posting at the same time and I didn't see yours. What your co-worker said was just cruel. No one with handicaps, be that physical or mental should ever be made fun of or made to feel badly over their situation. Some people are just plain stupid. I think I posted on another thread about my best friend being gay. I go out with her and her other friends some, and they call each other that constantly, but I wouldn't do it because it wouldn't be appropriate for me to do it. My Mother used to say to people all the time, "I can talk about my kids, but you can't."
Toxins - A toxin (Greek: , toxikon) is a poisonous substance produced by living cells or organisms (although humans are technically living organisms, man-made substances created by artificial processes usually aren't considered toxins by this definition).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxins
Here is the definition of "toxin." What poisonous substances, exactly, are produced by living cells or organisms in mother-in-laws?
The title of this book isn't even correct usage of the word. Many unscientific pop books are written like this today. It would be interesting to learn if there is some measurement of the damage they do.
Kathleen
John Bradshaw has endorsed Susan Forward's work. That's all I need to know.
Here is a quote from the article:
From Abracadabra to Zombies: New Age Psychotherapy --- www. skepdic.com/therapy/html.
"The list of "crazy" therapies is too long to reproduce here, but Singer and Lalich describe the following:
"Leonard Orr developed energy breathing and rebirthing theory. According to Orr, if you learn how to breathe energy well, you can breathe away diseases and physical or emotional pain.
"Marguerite Sechehaye and John Rosen practice the theory of regression and reparenting. The therapist becomes the patient's surrogate parent to make up for the terrible job her real parents did.
"Jacqui Shiff's theory is that the patient must wear diapers, suck his thumb and drink from a baby bottle to be cured.
"Sondra Ray and Bob Mandel believe that your problems are due to the way you were born. They will help "rebirth" you, properly this time.
"John Fuller, Bruce Goldberg, Brian Weiss, Edith Fiore, Richard Boylan, David Jacobs, Budd Hopkins and John Mack use hypnosis to discover the patient's past or future lives as an alien abductee, in an effort to "help" them.
"John Bradshaw's theory is that you have an "inner child" you must nurture and be good to, if you are to be healthy."
I wonder if Leonard Orr ever went through natural childbirth? I did, and I can tell you that you cannot breathe the pain away. You have to walk through it.
Kathleen
How many of us here have said bad things about other people or called them names, like,
Oh, she's a spoilded brat
or she's a princess, or extremely high maintenance....
or what a jerk, or on and on....
I can understand how some of you ladies feel, and your reasons why, however, I bet in your own hurt and anger, you, we've all done our share of name calling,
Yes, you can find any word in the dictionary as toxic and describe it's total shameful meaning...however, it is a word only, and doesn't define who you are.....
and by the way, talking about the N word, I told my son one time, when he asked me about that word, if I ever hear you say that word, well, you know I don't believe in slapping anyone across the face, but your butt is big enough and that is why it's there, so get ready for a spanking.
It always ceases to amaze me, how people of that particular nationality will call each other that, however, if someone else does, it's the most God awful thing????? ::)
Quote from: cremebrulee on January 20, 2011, 07:43:15 AM
Laurie
regarding the woman who fell into the fountain....
The woman was texting...wasn't watching where she was going...I've had many people do that, and almost walk right into me....so, yeah, I think it's funny...it was her misgiving....she created the issue, she is responsible, the mall didn't Sell it to anyone, it was placed on U-Tube, so maybe someone else caught it on they're cell...the woman claims embarrassment and is so upset b/c everyone is laughing....tough, and maybe she learned her lesson, b/c maybe she also drives and does texting? Who knows, maybe she doesn't, however, she is responsible for her own actions, and she goofed...Remember the show, "People do the darnest things" They'd have a field day with this one...or how bout American's funniest video's....frankly the woman should be laughing at herself, thanking fate for a lesson learned....b/c of her someone could get really hurt....
I just saw this woman on tv, it is believed that the security office allowed someone to use a telephone to copy their original film and then it was posted. I'm with the woman and I'd have the shrewdest attorney I could find.
This shows how callous we've become, I'm not saying that I'm any less guilty, as I high fived my daughter for tripping a social snot who treated her as if she didn't exist. I think/know we are all guilty to a certain degree.
At some point you'd think that common sense would come into play. Or is it now every man for himself? What about the first responders who used a cell phone to photograph a decapitated young girl, who it was later proven had caused her own one car accident. This photo was shared with the rest of the world with nothing more then a click of a send button.. of course those photos eventually made it to her parent's computer. Who gets to declare when something is funny and worthy of mass mailings, or a word is only offensive at certain times.
Sorry Kathleen, I did not see you posting.
While you are here.. I really would like to know your opinion on the use of the word 'hater' as I and others gave examples of earlier.
Wow Kathleen.. and those are the professions giving this advice? Maybe I got off lucky with my water drinking, name changing therapist.
Laurie,
I am confused about the meaning of "hater" as you guys are using it here. It sounds like another very general term to describe a certain kind of person or behavior. When I get finished I'll look it up. Send more comments to explain your question, please?
It is so very important in life to be very clear in all that we communicate. I just finished a long article for a literary publication. I have a great editor and she puts me through the jumps. Every sentence has to be attributed to a credible source, with exact page numbers (this gets hard when you are using New Yorker articles from the 1940's.) As a reporter, I was also taught that, as to write an inaccuracy could put the paper at risk for a lawsuit. But this is great training for life and critical thinking about every important issue. When you really look at the title, "Toxic Mother-in-laws," it makes no scientific or grammatical sense. But it's very catchy and quick.
Creme, I respectfully comment you may be confusing the issues. It's one thing to call my husband a jerk when he leaves his underwear on the floor. It's another thing to write a book that labels a whole group of husbands, unknown personally to the author, jerks. She is not excused as far as I'm concerned because at one time or another I've called my husband a jerk (and he's called me a jerk for placing so much importance on what's on the floor.) My communication with my husband also is private; I'm not broadcasting his faults to the world by publishing a book, essentially asking other people to join me in a crusade. Keep in mind these books are written for money and self-aggrandizement. I have no doubt that these con artists have talked themselves into believing their own theories. That was what I heard about Bernie Madoff: the con artist first cons himself. I thought this was very insightful.
The subject of my article is Sinclair Lewis, my favorite author. This man was the first American to win the Nobel Prize for literature. He had great, enormous, vast social conscience. He wasn't content merely to write novels; he wanted to improve the world, flag our rights as citizens and urge us to keep them, and unmask fakery. He would have had an absolute ball with the New Age books and therapists. The closest approximation is "Elmer Gantry," who cynically made a business out of tent religion for profit. (The first sentence of the novel is, "Elmer Gantry was drunk.") I wish he were alive today so I could ask him about all the "Toxic" books. I can hear him howling with laughter in his grave. He also examined racism in "Kingsblood Royal." Not his best literary novel, but one of his very best in terms of the premise.
Actually, now that I'm coming down from my first reaction, this is a very interesting topic. It's a good opportunity for us to examine what we feel and experience in regard to fast-acting gurus. It's a good opportunity to clarify what we really think and are willing to accept.
Laurie, I applaud you so much for walking out on that therapist. You realized the emperor had no clothes. So many people don't. You really are a free and kindred spirit.
Kathleen
Definition of "hater:"
a person who hates
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/web
It is also listed as a "slang term." I am not familiar with its usage and still don't really understand it.
Kathleen
I couldn't find any more then it being used as slang.. I just noticed that even the media has latched onto it.. Primarily I hear the 20ish crowd using it the most.
I get you Kathleen. I guess I have never been a very literal person when it comes to meanings. I think different people can have different interpretations of a passage, or a poem or a literary work. They are all just words but depending on how they are used or interpreted, can mean so many different things to different people. I think they can definately be used to hurt when used callously or maliciously.
Pooh,
Oh yeah.
K.
Quote from: Pooh on January 20, 2011, 01:54:16 PM
I get you Kathleen. I guess I have never been a very literal person when it comes to meanings. I think different people can have different interpretations of a passage, or a poem or a literary work. They are all just words but depending on how they are used or interpreted, can mean so many different things to different people. I think they can definately be used to hurt when used callously or maliciously.
I'm with ya pooh, I just feel life is to short to allow things like this to bother me....I could care less....there are more important thing in my life to think about...and I joke around an awful lot...and things seem to roll off my back...to be that literal drives me nuts....you can ignore it just as easy as get upset about it, ...I'm not so thin skinned I guess....and it works for me...but I agree, you know when something is being used maliciously and we have a choice, we can let it upset us, or walk away...life is just way to short....
Quote from: Laurie on January 20, 2011, 01:53:33 PM
I couldn't find any more then it being used as slang.. I just noticed that even the media has latched onto it.. Primarily I hear the 20ish crowd using it the most.
A variation is "Don't be hatin' " which is used to call someone on their angry speech:
For example, when DIL exclaimed "I hate old people," DS said to her, "Baby, don't be hatin.' "
Quote from: Laurie on January 20, 2011, 12:30:39 PM
Quote from: cremebrulee on January 20, 2011, 07:43:15 AM
Laurie
regarding the woman who fell into the fountain....
The woman was texting...wasn't watching where she was going...I've had many people do that, and almost walk right into me....so, yeah, I think it's funny...it was her misgiving....she created the issue, she is responsible, the mall didn't Sell it to anyone, it was placed on U-Tube, so maybe someone else caught it on they're cell...the woman claims embarrassment and is so upset b/c everyone is laughing....tough, and maybe she learned her lesson, b/c maybe she also drives and does texting? Who knows, maybe she doesn't, however, she is responsible for her own actions, and she goofed...Remember the show, "People do the darnest things" They'd have a field day with this one...or how bout American's funniest video's....frankly the woman should be laughing at herself, thanking fate for a lesson learned....b/c of her someone could get really hurt....
I just saw this woman on tv, it is believed that the security office allowed someone to use a telephone to copy their original film and then it was posted. I'm with the woman and I'd have the shrewdest attorney I could find.
This shows how callous we've become, I'm not saying that I'm any less guilty, as I high fived my daughter for tripping a social snot who treated her as if she didn't exist. I think/know we are all guilty to a certain degree.
At some point you'd think that common sense would come into play. Or is it now every man for himself? What about the first responders who used a cell phone to photograph a decapitated young girl, who it was later proven had caused her own one car accident. This photo was shared with the rest of the world with nothing more then a click of a send button.. of course those photos eventually made it to her parent's computer. Who gets to declare when something is funny and worthy of mass mailings, or a word is only offensive at certain times.
Did you guys see the news on this, this morning? This same lady was in court yesterday because she stole a friend or coworkers credit card and rang up $5k on it! Now, I agree if the security guys sold or gave out the video surveillance, I don't blame her for being angry, that would be wrong, but now I am not convinced of her intentions.....
For all anyone knows, she may have staged the whole thing.. but if the surveillance tapes were distributed, she has a case.. if she sues, now she can pay back her co-worker
I don't know if she does or not. Stores and malls release video tapes all the time of suspected shoplifters, etc. in our area. But the trick is that a "criminal activity" has occurred. But, if the security guards released it, the mall may get off the hook by firing them over it and saying they never authorized the release and it was gross negligence on the security guards. Could go either way...
Well the whole purpose of the tapes is to aid in the prosecution of criminal activities. I think she has a case.. Where is Holli.. she can shine some light I'm sure. I mean heck if you can sue for getting burned because you didn't know your hot coffee was hot, then certainly you can sue for the misuse of surveillance tapes.
Oh I definately think she has a case, but I think it is more at the security guards than the mall, if the mall can prove they didn't know anything about it.
Yeah....where is our lawyer today???????
Yes but wouldn't the mall since they hired the company be responsible in part.
Two weeks ago my truck and trailer were towed when we went to help our son move. It was towed from DD's apt complex, we had parked it where we were told to by an employee of the complex. I had to pay 200.00 ransom fee but got it back hours later. The apt said oh well, so sorry. I said ahhh I don't think so, you hired the towing company, allowed them to cruise your lot and tow anything they found to be in offense to the rules. I'm holding you responsible, and I want my money back. The tow company was forced to refund my money by the complex I think in part because I had documented the mileage that we had to drive to pick up the truck, gas, time, etc... I think they caught on that I had nothing better to do then to take them to court... I have this saying you can *&#@ with me, but don't *&#@ with my money. oh wait I don't use symbols in real life.
As someone who just now got off the phone with not only Social Security re:disability under-payments, but a famous cookware company regarding a defective product and a well-known printer company regarding their lovely (not) machine, I LOVE your line about money, Laurie.
If you walked in a store today, and were standing at the cash register and the clerk pulled out a gun and shot you, then the clerk is liable but not the store if they had no indication the clerk would do something like that and had safety procedures in place....blah blah blah. But if you can prove the store didn't offer help afterwards, or knew he had been saying he was going to do something like that, or saw him with a gun, blah blah blah...the store is just as much or more liable. At least that is what we run into here.
It can go either way depending on the situation.
Quote from: Pen on January 21, 2011, 10:04:09 AM
As someone who just now got off the phone with not only Social Security re:disability under-payments, but a famous cookware company regarding a defective product and a well-known printer company regarding their lovely (not) machine, I LOVE your line about money, Laurie.
Oh bless your heart
Thanks Pooh, I'm very exhausted now. Is it wine-thirty yet?
That is the wonderful part of our justice system.. it can go either way depending on the judge.. then another judge can rule against the first judge.. then like Anna Nichol we'll all be dead and it will still be going on.
Quote from: Laurie on January 21, 2011, 10:14:17 AM
That is the wonderful part of our justice system.. it can go either way depending on the judge.. then another judge can rule against the first judge.. then like Anna Nichol we'll all be dead and it will still be going on.
....until the money runs out.
Soooo true.. but I did get my money back and since my dh had accepted the loss and told me that I was wasting my time.. he got back 50.00 since it was his money I guess... I got the rest.. that mother/daughter pedicure (DELUX -thank you hubby) and lunch out was simply wonderful.
Lol...yay mani/pedi! Pen, I think it is going to be a margarita night for me. DH just text me and said he was cleaning house again...think I set a precedent last week?
Why didn't our minister tell us about this strategy when we went in for premarital counseling? It might have saved DH from a lot of nagging.
Quote from: Pooh on January 21, 2011, 10:33:05 AM
Pen, I think it is going to be a margarita night for me. DH just text me and said he was cleaning house again...think I set a precedent last week?
Amen Sista!
Oh, I need to take lessons in learning to ignore stuff!