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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: Lauren on November 28, 2013, 09:41:43 PM

Title: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: Lauren on November 28, 2013, 09:41:43 PM
Hi everyone,
I'm new here and I'm hoping to get some insight into my situation. My son and I used to be very close until recently. He moved to Europe with his wife soon after they got married 15 years ago. Since then I've always visited them twice a year for 10 days each time and I call my son on the phone every Sunday morning. I've never liked my daughter in law but I have always insisted that the whole family is together at all times when I'm there because I only see them twice a year so I want all of us to spend as much time together as possible. My son used to support me in this and whenever his wife tried to go places by herself, he would make her stay with me and she acted friendly to me even though I could sense it was all fake. All of this has changed and now I hardly see her and the children when I visit because the whole time I'm there she is gone. She makes herself very busy and my grandchildren spend a lot of time in their rooms when I'm visiting. My son seems annoyed with my visits and calls and I'm devastated. Since he moved away he only calls me on my birthday and mother's day, the rest of the time it has always been me calling but now it seems like he can't wait to get off the phone when I call on Sundays. Is his wife putting him against me? Thank you for any advice.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: luise.volta on November 28, 2013, 10:19:06 PM
Welcome - We ask all new members to go to our HomePage and under Open Me First to read the posts there. Please pay special attention to the Forum Agreement to be sure WWU is a fit. We're a monitored Website.

My take is that they are making it clear that they don't want the visits or the phone calls to continue. It's up to them because, as adults they have the right to set their own boundaries. Your job is done and your authority no longer exists. When visiting, insisting on anything in someone else's home is something that could cause resentment. I feel that it was your DIL's choice whether she wanted to be with you at all times or not. We can't change others or expect them to share our values. In addition, our expectations, no matter how reasonable, belong to us and no one is obligated to meet them.

I would accept their mandate, not fight it. All that would probably bring would be further resentment. I would suggest you start redirecting your life...find what else matters to you and start giving yourself the opportunity to move on.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: Lauren on November 29, 2013, 10:40:41 AM
I'm sorry I posted on the wrong area, I should have gone to the home page first. Thank you Luise for responding. It is very hard to accept their decision if it is that they don't want anything to do with me anymore. It seems unfair to end up here after raising my child.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: luise.volta on November 29, 2013, 11:46:38 AM
You posted in the right area. We just direct all l new members to our info page. All is well.  :)

A great deal that was connected with my own healing was about accepting that life could be unfair and my expectations didn't matter to my eldest son. It was just too painful to acknowledge much less adjust to at first. However, my own sadness was destroying the quality of my life and I deserved better. Eventually, I choose to give a better life to myself by having things be the way they were...and then turning toward what I wanted the rest of my life to be about, beyond pain and loss. There are many members here in our little community who have faced this issue...and many of us have moved through it in our own way. As others share, you will get other perspectives. The ones who get stuck in the injustice and self-pity are the ones who pay the highest price, it seems to me. We all go there...we have to be honest and feel what we feel. Beyond that, however, lies our healing. Sending love...
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: Sunny on November 29, 2013, 11:55:12 AM
Welcome Lauren! I'm sorry you have family problems that have led you to this community, but this is a wonderful place to let it all out :)

I am going to guess that your son's marriage may be in trouble, and that is why the changes in behavior of both him and his wife. If they were married about 15 years ago, then the children may be nearing teenage years and they may also be having a heap of difficulty with their children that you don't know about. Those can be tough years for people on every front, and dealing with extended family on top of all the difficulties of day to day life can fall into the too hard basket. It is really about them, and not about us once they are grown-up, and it sure hurts at times.

Some people here have found it useful to take a step back from their adult children, and stop pushing for contact. Once the pressure is off, after a while some AC will re-engage with their parents of their own volition. Maybe you could stop the visits for now, or make them shorter and offer to stay at a hotel to take the strain off everyone. You could also consider saying to your son that he seems busy and distracted when you phone, and you would be willing to leave him to make contact when it suits him. For whatever reason, he is seeing you as a burden he doesn't have time for at the moment, so as Luise says, best develop your own life for now. Changing your life is hard in the beginning, but very rewarding in the long run.

Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: Lauren on November 29, 2013, 12:38:48 PM
Thank you Luise and Sunny. From what I've seen, they don't seem to be having problems with each other, it looks more like they don't have a place in their lives for me anymore. They act loving towards each other while ignoring me and acting annoyed that I'm there or that I'm calling. My son doesn't even try to help me with his wife anymore and she just disrespects me by being gone all the time while I'm there visiting. I have tried skipping a couple of phone calls but it has become very clear that if I don't call, I simply won't hear from them at all. It is a very tough position to be in.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: luise.volta on November 29, 2013, 12:53:18 PM
Many of us here know where you are. Skipping calls and eventually stopping them and all visits was what my DS wanted from me. I finally got to where I could do that and see it as respecting him but it didn't come overnight...or help me with his disrespect. It was a long, long road back to having a full and satisfying life. I couldn't even start before I got to where I could have things be the way there were instead of anguishing over how I wanted, expected, hoped they would be.

My grandsons came back into my life after they were adults (I'm 86 years old) and I have a GREAT granddaughter in college!  :D

Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: jdtm on November 29, 2013, 02:15:07 PM
QuoteThey act loving towards each other while ignoring me and acting annoyed that I'm there or that I'm calling.

What is it that Shakespeare said in Hamlet - "The lady doth protest too much, methinks"  - I'm going to agree with Sunny on this one; however, it really doesn't matter that much when you are not "wanted".  So sorry ....
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: evergreen on November 29, 2013, 03:10:33 PM
I feel that you are in the wrong here. You say you never liked your DIL. Don't you think she knows that? Don't you think it is obvious and hurtful to her and your son and their children? I also think visiting for up to ten days at a time in your son and DIL's home is a bit much. You should have stayed in a hotel.

Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: luise.volta on November 29, 2013, 03:21:45 PM
Welcome, E -  We ask all new members to go to our HomePage and under Open Me First to read the posts there. Please pay special attention to the Forum Agreement to be sure WWU is a fit. We're a monitored Website.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt in case you haven't read the Forum Agreement. We share our experiences here and our opinions...but this is not a Website where one person is 'right' and another is 'wrong.' Attacking others is not what we're about. I am going to edit your post for obvious reasons...this one time...and hope you will consider joining in the spirit of WWU.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: evergreen on November 29, 2013, 03:23:58 PM
Luise, I didn't mean to offend, but this post was very hurtful to me. I grew up seeing my mother bullied by my dad's mom horribly to the point where my parents almost divorced. My own MIL tried to bully me and I stood up to her. I feel bad for this DIL.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: luise.volta on November 29, 2013, 03:35:11 PM
Thank you for responding, E. That is putting it very differently. We all have our buttons and when they get pushed, it is all about us. On WWU, the rule of thumb is to cool down before we post. We can share our hurt without making is personal. About three years ago, when I first opened this Website...I wrote three pages on Word...responding to someone and then ended up publishing a one-liner!  ;) Please back off and take a deep breath. Watch this thread and see what others may contribute. You have made your point.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: evergreen on November 29, 2013, 03:40:35 PM
What just happened to my earlier post? This one-it is not offensive in any way.



I also want to say this-your DIL has a life that doesn't include you. Women today are different and the rules are different. Some people are introverts and like their privacy. I do not feel your DIL was disrespecting you by going off on her own. I also feel that you cannot insist that anyone do anything. Your DIL has the right to live her own life as she sees fit and if that includes not being around you, so be it. 

Your son is the one you are there to see and your grandkids. Focus on them. Your DIL owes you nothing. She said her vows to your son.

I am curious as to why your son and DIL moved and what culture is your DIL-is it different from yours?
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: Lauren on November 29, 2013, 06:11:16 PM
She is not from a different culture, she just somehow got the idea of moving there into my son's head. I wasn't trying to be mean to anyone when I insisted that the whole family was together while I was visiting, I was just trying for all of us to spend as much time together since we don't see each other that often, but clearly it backfired.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: evergreen on November 29, 2013, 06:57:15 PM
Why are you putting this all on your DIL? Why is everything her fault? Your son is an intelligent man. He is capable of his own decisions and more importantly, your son and DIL are their OWN family, seperate from you. I stand by what I said that you owe your DIL an apology.

Do you not see how hurtful and obvious it is to her that you don't like her? Don't you think that hurts and upsets your son and their kids?
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: evergreen on November 29, 2013, 07:03:28 PM
Also, your DIL did not want to spend time with you and you insisting has made this worse, unfortunately. 

My hubby and I see it this way-we have a his and hers approach. He deals with and entertains his family when they visit and I do the same with my family.

His family is HIS family. He talks to them and communicates with them and vice versa. Your son is your family, not DILs. She is under no responsibility to spend time with you when you visit or entertain you. I don't expect my hubby to entertain or visit with my parents.

It works out fine for us. Many couples these days do the same thing.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: herbalescapes on November 29, 2013, 07:13:30 PM
Seems like there could be a bunch of different things happening at the same time.  If for 15 years your DIL has been forced to spend your visits with you when she didn't want to, is it any wonder that she's deciding to stop?  It may not be the best of manners, but it's very human.  You say your GC spend a lot of time in their rooms when you visit.  Do you think your DS or DIL is telling them to do this in order to send you a message?  It could just be that they are older and want their own privacy.  Your son distancing himself could indicate trouble in his marriage or a midlife crisis or trouble with his kids or he's uncomfortable not having his wife as some kind of buffer when you're there or issues at his work or his biorhythms are out of sync or, well, you get the idea.  Please don't assume your DIL is behind his behavior.  She may very well be, but if she's not and you make that assumption, you won't be able to address the problem since you mis-identified it. 

Keep in mind that your options aren't limited to the status quo or total cutoff.  Backing off doesn't always lead to a better relationship; sometimes it leads to more backing off and more and more.  But sometimes it helps.  I'd suggest calling less frequently and maybe cutting your visits down to under a week or only one 10-day visit a year.  No matter how much you want your DS to pick up the phone, you can't make him.  You can either be resentful that he doesn't call when you don't or accept it.  Not easy to accept, I know, but healthy. 

Also keep in mind that now that you have the idea that your DS and family are trying to cut you out, you will be inclined to interpret their behavior in that light.  It's easy to jump to conclusions, especially when it comes to intentions and hidden messages.  Try to be as objective as you can and separate what you KNOW from what you THINK.

Good luck.  While there are many stories here about truly wretched family situations, there are also some great success stories.  Don't throw in the towel just yet.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: Sarah on November 30, 2013, 03:50:16 AM
In my opinion your dil resents having to be your tour guide twice a year.  I'm sorry, in my own case, my husband tried to make me "friends" with his mother whenever we would see them from another state.  His mother would make snide, sarcastic comments while my husband felt free to do his own thing and I resented it terribly.  My husband and I would argue constantly.  So, I told him, his parents, HE is front and center for every single visit and I will do as I please from now on without her brand of "help."  He started seeing his parents less, our marriage calmed down considerably and things got better.  So I'm sorry, but I feel by you dictating how things are going to go every visit for 10 days (20 days a year, almost spending a month every year at their home) you are getting the resentment from the dil and I can bet it has taken a small toll on their marriage.  He may be trying to back off of your visits for peace in the home.  Doesn't mean they are having problems, just that your visits are causing problems and in order to go forward you can't dictate how your visits are going to be and perhaps stay in a hotel and hopefully there's some other things you can do in the city to keep yourself occupied while your son is at work.  She shouldn't be forced on you by your son and you shouldn't force yourself on her.  I'm sorry, hope this isn't harsh, but I've lived this as a dil.  Good luck.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: luise.volta on November 30, 2013, 09:16:34 AM
As I'm catching up on the open threads here this morning, I'm wondering if you are specifically invited twice a year for ten days or if that and your calls are an assumed tradition on your part that has become a dreaded obligation on their part. That may be why it's disintegrating. It's their home, simply put, and their life. They make the rules just like you did when you established your own home. It's often hard to get that our job is done and our authority is a thing of the past. We were in charge for many years and our children needed that to survive but once they become adults all bets are off; our hopes and dreams notwithstanding.

It doesn't sound like any of this is being directly addressed. Their actions are having to be interpreted by you and you deserve better than that. However, they may fear telling you what they want and so are showing you instead. You have the right to communicate. You do. You have the right to say that you want to do what will work for them and that you need to know what that is. What you have now doesn't seem to be working for anyone. I can't imagine how painful it must be to go where you feel so rejected and manipulated. Why not bring it out into the open? Yes, that could mean the visits and calls cease but I simply don't see how you can resolve this on your own. They get to vote. Again, it's their home, their family, their choice. Such action (asking) on your part may close the door but isn't that what's happening now? How long can you keep calling and visiting under the present conditions? It may be time to tell them that the ball is in their court...because, of course, it is.

When this happened to me...without the distance being involved...I was devastated and could see no point of view except my own. We went our separate ways and I was bitter. Healing eventually followed on all of our parts but it took years for us to establish mutual respect...which I came to identify as equality. My heart goes out to you.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: Lauren on November 30, 2013, 10:10:07 AM
Thanks for all the replies. Honestly, after reading all the answers I'm afraid to ask what they want from me because the answer could be that they don't want to see me anymore and that is terrifying. They have never invited me come over but my fear was that if I waited for an invitation, it woul never happen and I really wanted to stay in touch.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: luise.volta on November 30, 2013, 10:34:47 AM
No one wants that sense of being set adrift. We simply don't get to choose. We all agree with you that it is terrifying and we are here for you and each other as we adapt to turning over the reins. When we don't, for many of us, the reins are taken away. The result is the same. The messages you are getting are loud and clear. Looking back, many of us have discovered an identity we have learned to like and enjoy...beyond our biological one. It feels like the end of the world but it isn't. It's life.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: shiny on November 30, 2013, 12:15:00 PM
Luise, if I could give you a big hug, I would ... All of your responses in this thread have ministered to me in a huge way, and I thank you so much. Even the response about your adult grandchildren establishing relationships with you encouraged me because it gives hope that this can happen for me, too.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: dedicatedmom on November 30, 2013, 12:41:38 PM
Evergreen "Please back off and take a deep breath. "
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: luise.volta on November 30, 2013, 05:07:28 PM
Dedicatedmom - Evergreen is no longer a member of WWU. She was warned.

Quote: I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt in case you haven't read the Forum Agreement. We share our experiences here and our opinions...but this is not a Website where one person is 'right' and another is 'wrong.' Attacking others is not what we're about. I am going to edit your post for obvious reasons...this one time...and hope you will consider joining in the spirit of WWU. End Quote

Most new members fit, DM... but some have a different approach and need a venue that makes room for debate, accusation and controversy. That's why WWU is a monitored Website. Not gonna' happen here. Sending love...
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: dedicatedmom on November 30, 2013, 05:36:36 PM
how kind of you - thanks for the response.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: luise.volta on November 30, 2013, 05:51:49 PM
On the lighter side, DM - a woman once took exception to the Forum Agreement and wrote me an angry post regarding this being a Democracy and that she was entitled freedom of speech. I answered that she was wrong; I own this Website and it's a Benevolent Dictatorship!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: dedicatedmom on December 01, 2013, 09:47:00 AM
That is so funny  :-*
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: DixieDarling on December 01, 2013, 11:17:03 AM
Lauren, I'm sorry for that ache you're feeling in your heart. It leaves me feeling confused when I'm treated poorly by someone I've honestly went out of my way trying to befriend. It's almost like they decided to dislike me from the start.
I've learned it's better to be upfront and just ask what the issue is and if there's anything I can do better?
Sometimes people get bent out of shape over something we didn't even notice. You can fix things until you know what's broken. Good Luck dear!
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: DixieDarling on December 01, 2013, 11:18:47 AM
Sorry, I meant you CAN'T fix things until you know what's broken.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: Pooh on December 02, 2013, 08:05:21 AM
Welcome Lauren.  I too think that you are getting clues from your DS since you've never been invited and it's you that always initiates the calls.  I so get that you are trying to keep that relationship going and I admire you for it.  I did the same thing for a couple of years until I finally realized it wasn't a relationship.  It was a one-sided thing.  I don't get along with my DIL either, but the difference is I would be happy to carry on a relationship with DS and not expect her to do anything or be around if she didn't want.  So I decided I wasn't going to be the one person in the relationship any longer and left the ball in DS's court.  So far, he's not chosen to pick up the ball and it took me awhile to come to terms with that.  But I no longer stress about him not visiting, calling or attending family things.  Time makes you realize that having that one-sided relationship is a lot more stressful than no relationship.

Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: luise.volta on December 02, 2013, 08:56:25 AM
I'm thinking about Pooh's wise comments about one-sided relationships. I don't think most of us can leave it at that. We stress over how we wish it were and how we can fix it...how it used to be or how we dreamed it would be. Deadly stuff!
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: freespirit on December 02, 2013, 01:28:33 PM
I can't help but think 10 days is a long visit;  and that twice a year. ;)

I know you said they live in another country, so it is probably difficult to do it differently. But maybe, changing the rhythm a bit would be good.

...Starting with not calling every Sunday morning. Call instead, sporadically, like maybe a Wednesday, and then don't call for 2-3 weeks. It's the regularity, which can get on some people's nerves.

As for the visits; what if you visited them just once a year?...And the money you have saved by not visiting twice, could be invested in an invitation to some special event; something that the grandchildren would enjoy as well.

It could be your personal token of appreciation, showing how you valued their hospitality over all those years. 
:)
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: wisewomanalso on December 03, 2013, 09:31:17 AM
Kudos to Louise for having the knowledge and determination to create this site :).  I think I read that you are in your 80's and I can only say wow - cause I would be clueless as to where to begin.  I also believe in my heart that while it is your "dictatorship here" that your ultimate goal is to bring us all closer together.  With age comes wisdom for sure.  But,  age isn't what creates the wisdom it is experience and having lived longer to have more experiences :).  Some people have experiences at a younger age that need to be shared for us all to learn. 

I also believe that everyone here posts from their heart - all of us and especially Evergreen (I think couldn't remember and couldn't scroll back to find).  But, it is hard to put yourself in someone else's shoes and that is where we all need to begin (in my humble opinion).  If we just fluff everything all day long we end up living in a rabbit hole and everything becomes curiouser and curiouser - LOL.

There are so many angles to this story.  First, we have the perspective of an elderly lady and the perspective of a thriving family.  10 days to someone who has raised their family and who is maybe retired and has a lot more free time is nothing compared to someone who has a young family , possibly a job, a household and a lot less free time.  Multiply that by 2 - that's 20 days- oh my.  I say this in honest sincerity - no one, not even my best friend could be tolerated for that much time.  It's just too much and also depending on your personality, too much of a burden.  Like for me, I like my private space - sometimes don't even want the hubby around.

Then, there is this idea that the kids are hiding from grandma.  I have three boys and quite honestly, they'd only come out of their room for nourishment and not even then if I'd bring it up to them :).  It's what they do at that age....not personal.

My advice to the OP would be to step back and take a deep breath and let a year go by without the visit.  The old saying "absence makes the heart grow fonder" is true.  Your son will always love his mom, but right now, he just may be in a place of not being able to show it.  You are wiser and you are more experienced, be the hero and just let them have their time and come to you.  I think that if they make a small effort then you make a little bit bigger effort and then see what happens from there. 

Demanding your children to do anything will - just like we all know - push them to do the opposite :).
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: luise.volta on December 03, 2013, 10:32:26 AM
Hijacking this thread for a moment: W - I am closer to 90 than 80...I will be 87 in 3 months. My take is that age and experience don't necessarily bring wisdom. I have lived in a large retirement community for the last 13 years and have evidence to support that.  ;) Those who want to be comfortable usually come from 'knowing'. Not from 'this is my perception at this time.' Sharing where we are and where we have been along with where we are headed and/or would like to be go is not the same thing as guruism, (in my current perception.  :)) I do my best to I honor the fact that people post from their hearts...to quote you. What I don't publish is expressing that up close and personal, as criticism...or from the great distance of the self-appointed guru. The Web is full of opportunities to do both. Here, it is about caring and sharing in the venue of mutual respect. Lots of 'I' posts' as opposed to 'you' posts. That's not for everyone and that's OK. There are debate sites and bashing sites and sites that are belief-based. So be it. I have three wonderful moderators here who volunteer their time and compassion to keeping WWU what it was designed to be. We have countless testimonials here of healing. I often send them on to my son, who is or volunteer Webmaster in deep gratitude for his co-creating the site with me and maintaining it. Kudos to Kirk!  ;D
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: Lillycache on December 03, 2013, 12:00:59 PM
Quote from: DixieDarling on December 01, 2013, 11:18:47 AM
Sorry, I meant you CAN'T fix things until you know what's broken.

No truer words were ever spoken.  Unfortunately with the MIL/DIL situation it is often the case that things are left to fester and brew until they are unfixable as so much resentment has piled up it is impossible to dig through it.  In my own case, my DIL let me believe everything was fine and we were a family, and that she cared for me, while all the while hating my guts, for lack of a better word.   Eventually when she could no longer contain her dislike, I began picking up on clues and nuances.  Finally, the dam broke over a minor disagreement and she let me have it with both barrels and thensome.. with the most hateful accusations and vile words you could ever imagine.   Now there is no going back as I refuse to have her in MY life. It's really not fair to expect someone to be a mind reader and to know what is upsetting someone if they never let on. 
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: luise.volta on December 03, 2013, 12:29:23 PM
L - What a clear description of letting things fester...pretending and keeping score... and what it can cost in the long run!
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: Lillycache on December 04, 2013, 04:53:09 AM
Louise... let me also send you my appreciation for keeping this site a "healing" place.. and a place to come to to seek information, and prospectives from women that have walked in our shoes.   Anyone who has ever experienced the devastation of being shut out.. or maligned unfairly understands that the very last thing needed is to picked and poked at by someone who has NOT experienced it first hand.  No one wants to be lectured and told what they did wrong.  Most of us, deep down inside KNOW how we contributed to the situation, either knowingly or unknowingly.  I know that in my case, I didn't WANT to "fix" anything as I realized it could never be fixed.  I just wanted to vent and heal.  That is impossible to do if people keep picking at the scabs.   Everyone here has been instrumental in my healing.. because Louise makes sure to keep the nasty stuff off this site.  Everyone here is patient when I come back with a momentary relapse of grief.. and sees me through it.  Which is important.   I wouldn't be as far along in my happiness if it were not for the kindness here.  Thank you.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: jdtm on December 04, 2013, 05:39:42 AM
QuoteLouise... let me also send you my appreciation for keeping this site a "healing" place.. and a place to come to to seek information, and prospectives from women that have walked in our shoes.   Anyone who has ever experienced the devastation of being shut out.. or maligned unfairly understands that the very last thing needed is to picked and poked at by someone who has NOT experienced it first hand.  No one wants to be lectured and told what they did wrong.  Most of us, deep down inside KNOW how we contributed to the situation, either knowingly or unknowingly.  I know that in my case, I didn't WANT to "fix" anything as I realized it could never be fixed.  I just wanted to vent and heal.  That is impossible to do if people keep picking at the scabs.   Everyone here has been instrumental in my healing.. because Louise makes sure to keep the nasty stuff off this site.  Everyone here is patient when I come back with a momentary relapse of grief.. and sees me through it.  Which is important.   I wouldn't be as far along in my happiness if it were not for the kindness here.  Thank you.

I so agree, Lillycache.  Thank you and Amen ....
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: Monroe on December 04, 2013, 08:07:13 AM
Somebody earlier on this thread mentioned the philosophy of separate His and Hers in-law relationships.  Other DILs (no one in particular - this is a general comment) have from time to time posted that they handle everything to do with their family, and their husband is to handle everything with his family - that he has no responsibility for a relationship with her parents, and she has no responsibility for any kind of relationship with her husband's family. 

I just wanted to share the flip side - what happens if each spouse makes a real effort towards the other's family.  It comes back to benefit EVERYBODY. 

Couple of examples - -

My DH and I are 60, have adult children and quite elderly parents (90's).  When my adult sons are in town, DH and sons like to do some "guy things" - - target shooting in the country, etc.  Last time they were in, my DH invited my dad to go along.  My dad loved the ride out to the country, and sitting watching the grandsons shoot hedge apples.  He loved the companionship with his grandsons, and having an outing that was otherwise impossible for him.  All made possible because my DH was thoughtful enough to include his FIL.  In doing so, my DH strengthened the bond between our sons and their GF, gained my father's appreciation, and MINE. 

My FIL is a widower, living in a retirement community.  They have a huge buffet for Thanksgiving.  We all go, have a great time, and my FIL appreciates our spending the day with him.   This year when we called for reservations at the retirement center buffet, they were ALL BOOKED UP!  My husband was upset - because at 99, it is simply too hard on my FIL to transport him to our home or to a restaurant.  WE could do it - but it would wear him out before he even got to the destination. 

So my DH was upset at the thought of his dad not having a traditional Thanksgiving with the family.  I said - "Hey, let's see if that little conference/meeting room is available.  Everybody else will be at the big buffet.  If we can reserve that little room, I'll cook a turkey dinner and we'll cater it in."  So we reserved the little room, I cooked my little feast, we re-warmed everything before we left home, wrapped the pans in towels, put them in cardboard boxes, and hauled everything (including my countertop oven and warming tray) out to the center.  My sons said the food was BETTER than the usual buffet.  Grandpa liked it, too - especially the "private dining room".  And I got huge brownie points with my husband.  We've already decided to do the same for Christmas.  They all thought it was more special than the big buffet. 

DH and I each made a small effort towards our FILs.  It cost us nothing.  But we each benefitted more than the FILs did.  I so appreciate my DH including my dad in the target shooting outing.  He is extremely grateful to me for a catered Thanksgiving meal for his dad.  (Please, nobody tell my DH how easy it is to roast a turkey). 

I am a bit saddened when I read that some DILs take a "they're your relatives, I don't need to do anything for them" attitude.  Those DILs may be missing out on an opportunity to gain their husbands'  appreciation and strengthen their marriages. 
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: Pooh on December 04, 2013, 08:31:03 AM
I hold the exact some philosophy as you Monroe.  I think it benefits my marriage and relationship to make the effort and the payoff if the entire family dynamics are benefited.  Even when I had the MIL from hades, nothing anyone could/would do would make her happy, it benefited the other family members for me to make the effort.

DH is the same.  He goes out of his way for my side of the family and although they do appreciate it, if they didn't, I still would.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: Monroe on December 04, 2013, 08:33:52 AM
Pooh - That's why I want you for my sister-in-law!    :D  :-*  ;)  :D  :-*
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: luise.volta on December 04, 2013, 09:31:49 AM
M - She is your SIL because you are all my DILs!  It's no wonder I protect you all like a mother hen! ;D
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: Lillycache on December 04, 2013, 09:54:46 AM
Quote from: luise.volta on December 04, 2013, 09:31:49 AM
M - She is your SIL because you are all my DILs!  It's no wonder I protect you all like a mother hen! ;D

I can see that..  I believe many if not most of us found this place after having experienced the bedlam and hostility of other places.  I know I was told.. "Go check out WWU... That Louise ain't havin' any of that stuff"    Thank you Mother Hen.. and thanks to all my fellow chicks. 
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: Footloose on December 04, 2013, 10:19:07 AM
AMEN all u wonderful and wise women!  i married my husband AND his family and we are a better couple for sharing in the pleasure and sometimes pain of them all.  We are a team so why do it all alone?  I let him off any perceived hook and he returns the favor but we always pitch in, especially in those tougher moments.  Hugs sisters!
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: DixieDarling on December 04, 2013, 11:00:25 AM
I've told my DIL in the past that all they ever need to do is be upfront and honest. That doesn't mean you don't need to be polite. Just honest. Because to expect me to read their mind is setting everything up to fail. So I agree L.
About the (her family-his family) topic. I told my youngest just last weekend that when his little boy arrives HE will combine our families. Like it or not. His DNA will be made up from our family and her family. It's a silly subject in my mind. I have a suggestion, how about we all treat each other with kindness and compassion. There isn't many people who don't deserve at least that.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: DixieDarling on December 04, 2013, 11:47:26 AM
I also want to express how happy I am to have found this site!
Kindness is the backbone here.
I've been on other sites for MILs & Grandparents. They are all about pointing out how wrong and selfish I am for wanting a loving family. I may be wrong in my views at times. We all are. But here we can talk it out. Instead of been chewed out. Learn from one another. And comfort one another.
Thank you a million times Luise and Kirk!
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: Pooh on December 04, 2013, 12:56:05 PM
Hee hee.  I always wanted a Sister (due to having two brothers) and now I have a whole flock of them!  Woot Woot!
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: Pen on December 04, 2013, 10:13:51 PM
Me too! Love you, my dear sisters :)
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: mamarama on December 06, 2013, 09:46:18 AM
Edited and removed
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: Pooh on December 06, 2013, 10:01:25 AM
Mamarama, please take a moment to read the posts under "Open Me First" about the forum rules and how we operate here.  We ask all new members to do this. 

Also, although we do hope a poster will share the relevant information here, we do not pull information from other websites into this forum as many of those are geared towards debate and controversy and the blame game.  We encourage support and helpful suggestions here, formed in a way that is respectful and kind to each poster.   This in no way means we don't kindly prompt someone that they could handle things better, as we all know we have areas for improvement, but we do not use information on a poster from another website here to call them out.

If Lauren wants to share this information here, it is her choice.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: Aathree on December 06, 2013, 10:31:00 AM
From a perspective of a granddaughter, daughter, mother and DIL I just can response with what my loving and amazing grandmother told my mom "Sylvia (my mom) let them. I understand that they don't wanna visit or hang out with their grandmother. They are in the age where they wanna do their own thing, hanging out with their friends. You did the same and wanted the same. I will be here for them when they wanna come back." I was around 12 back then and to this day I remember it  and admire my grandmother for it. And she was right all her grandchildren (12) came back and love her so much. She never wanted us to come every second weekend or that we have to spend time with her - it was a choice if we wanted to. And we choose to visit her spontaneous or call her. I live in another country and I send my grandmother cards and gifts for birthdays, Xmas and Easter just because I want to. I didn't have contact with my other grandmother because I choose too. She was always like you have to call, you have to visit etc. She even started with if you don't come visiting you don't get a birthday gift this year. In the end it backfired for her because her grandchildren decided to distance themselves from her and sadly she died lonely.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: Pooh on December 06, 2013, 10:43:32 AM
Aathree, please take a moment to read the threads under "Open Me First" for the rules.

Because you referenced things that were in the post that Mamrama shared with things from the other site, I removed most of your post.  Also, you made many assumptions of things about the poster that have not been stated.  We do not psycho-analyze posters here as that requires a professional and we do not claim to be that.

I left the sentences that were fitting.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: Aathree on December 06, 2013, 11:03:31 AM
Pooh I did not see the post from mamarama. I find it very upsetting that people on this post obvisiouly don't wanna hear different advice to a problem or different sides to it. Is it not what a question is normally about to get a good idea about what could be changed or do better? But to do it I need different views to the problem and not just a one-sided because I have to feel right. You say nobody is right or wrong yet you remove certain things from a post because you think they are "wrong". If you really want that people get advice you would let Lauren decided  what she takes from the answers.
People could tell me all day long I am disrespectful (just an example) and I just ignore it because I don't think so til the moment I decide to take a closer look at my own behaviour and might realize there is something to it.
I think that the comments I made in my post are a good idea about what could go on in Lauren' son's life. Not saying it has to be. Maybe you rethink it and could repost the whole post. I think it would give a better understand to both sides - MIL and DIL.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: Aathree on December 06, 2013, 11:13:07 AM
And by the way i do not think evergreen was rude or disrespectful. She just gave a straight, direct answer to Lauren's question. Maybe that's why so many MILs and DILs have problem in the first place because one of the parties is too sensitive and overreact. Most of them only have a small issues but it becomes a big problem because we let our alter ego out. Maybe we should start to be more considerate with each other and try to put ourselves into the other person' shoes.

Yes I could bash about my MIL all day along but I don't instead I try to put myself in her position. And try to understand why she said or did certain things. Sometimes I realize it is a reaction to an action. It is not always working and yes I get upset and have to discuss it with some friends. At least I know I tried my best. If it still bothers me I will talk to my husband about it and go from there.
And you will not always be all happy with each other that is just being human. As I will not always be on the same page with my own mother.
Title: Re: I'm afraid I'm losing my son
Post by: luise.volta on December 06, 2013, 11:43:55 AM
I am locking this thread. The three people who were drawn here by the poster and subject matter don't 'fit' and are long gone. I just don't have the patience. Our Forum Agreement is very clear and works for those who want to work it. Those who don't can just go start their own forum. I hope that's not too subtle.  ;)