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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: dez on February 08, 2014, 11:07:57 AM

Title: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: dez on February 08, 2014, 11:07:57 AM
So discouraged...my son & daughter in law have been married almost 2 years and she hates me & my daughter, his sister in law, and likes my husband ok.  Why?  We have no idea. Honestly, no idea. From day one bshe has not given us a chance. She makes no effort and when I sent my son a private email out of my frustration, she read it and now she is rude & disrepectful to me & my daughter. He has been through a lot in the last 8 years, so he seems to be just trying to hold things together. They seem to get along good with each other as long as we don't come into the picture.  He has a 7 yr old daughter that is with his previous girlfriend and he is trying for the 2nd time to get full custody because his daughter is not living in a stable environment. His wife loves his daughter & is good to her. She just doesn't like us.  My heart is broken. My daughter, his sister, is broken hearted because they have always been very close. Now...it is a struggle to stay in touch with him. He seems distant too.  Our family has always been a close family and we are so sad.  My daughter in law takes no responsibility,,,says we should honor their marriage and just blames us for everything .  My family needs prayers and frankly I need a support group.   
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Stilllearning on February 08, 2014, 02:28:12 PM
Dez you stumbled into the right place!!  You sound exactly like I did when I stumbled in.  Take some time and read some of the other posts. You will find some really good advice here!!

For now you need to focus your life and energies on being happy.  Try to turn your thoughts away from the things you cannot fix and work on the things you can.  Trust that your DS is an adult and he has made choices that are making him happy.  Work to improve your DD and DH's life.  Go have some fun. 
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: luise.volta on February 08, 2014, 07:10:26 PM
Welcome, D. We ask all new members to go to the HomePage and under Open Me First, to read the four posts placed there for you. Please pay special attention to the Forum Agreement to be sure that WWU is a fit. We're a monitored site.

I have been through something similar. I thought my expectations were very minimal and I was willing and eager to go the extra mile but I wasn't given the chance. I too voiced my disappointment to my son with the mistaken concept that how I felt mattered...silly me. What I learned the hard way was that my job was done. My adult Children had the right to make their own decisions and learn from the consequences...or not. And that my job was to get a life. They were my life...not an easy transition.

I agree with SL that reading other threads here may bring you comfort...and offer you a sense you aren't alone with your disappointment. We are here for each other. Hang in there. Hugs...
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: shiny on February 09, 2014, 02:37:57 PM
Dez, so sorry this is happening in your life. The heartache is, at times, unbearable.

I'm in a similar situation except DIL is not rude or disrespectful -- she simply ignores us and pretends we don't exist. This is after a number of invitations to do things together, phone calls, emails, and gifts. She makes NO initiative in reciprocating a relationship, and quite frankly, I'm about tired of continuing the effort (four years).
She is enamored with her life, and while I know they are very busy, they still have time for her FFO -- frequently. Some things just can't be forced, you know.

SL's comment is right: try to focus your thoughts and energies somewhere that's positive. That's what I'm doing. However, it doesn't take away ALL the sadness, because Luise hit the nail on the head with her comment, that her job was to get a life, but the problem was that her sons were her life. Yep, me too!
I'm going to keep trying to get this "new life" whatever it looks like for me, and hope you will find one, too. Prayers going up for you!
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Pen on February 09, 2014, 03:58:49 PM
Dez, welcome to our site. Shiny's situation is very similar to mine, and it's been tough...but thanks to this site I'm doing so much better than I'd imagined.

I had a lot of interests, a meaningful job, friends, etc. so "getting a life" wasn't my need. I had to get over the jealously I felt when DIL's FOO became front and center. I had to get over the anger I felt (and still occasionally feel) when DIL & her FOO treat us like losers. I had to forgive their behavior and move on, not that I will ever leave myself wide open or naively trust them again.

The down days are few and far between now. Keep reading and posting!
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Pooh on February 10, 2014, 11:24:32 AM
Quote from: luise.volta on February 08, 2014, 07:10:26 PM


I have been through something similar. I thought my expectations were very minimal and I was willing and eager to go the extra mile but I wasn't given the chance. I too voiced my disappointment to my son with the mistaken concept that how I felt mattered...silly me. What I learned the hard way was that my job was done. My adult Children had the right to make their own decisions and learn from the consequences...or not. And that my job was to get a life. They were my life...not an easy transition.

I agree with SL that reading other threads here may bring you comfort...and offer you a sense you aren't alone with your disappointment. We are here for each other. Hang in there. Hugs...

Ditto all this and welcome Dez.
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: luise.volta on February 10, 2014, 12:35:34 PM
I just re-read what I wrote and it sounds bitter. I was. However, I no longer am.

I have a life...and it is full of warmth and wonder. I don't think any of my 'expectations' went beyond my family but... that's where they have been fulfilled. And so my sense of family extends way beyond the biological and new 'kids' (most in their 60s) have surfaced. One is on staff at the retirement campus where I live...one is an ex-DIL, one is an ex-cleaning lady we helped get her GED and advanced schooling, one is from a support group we both left long ago, one was a massage therapist who moved to another state and took my heart with her, two of their husbands have joined the throng, and there's an ex-maintenance man. Beyond that are all of you...my e-kids. At 87 I'm rich beyond my most outlandish dreams.

I couldn't experience any of that until I faced and went through the loss that so many of us are familiar with here. We can't sweep it under the rug and we can't get stuck in self-pity...the operational word, no matter how hard it is or how long it takes, is 'through'. Hugs to all...
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Cranky Pants on February 12, 2014, 08:12:35 PM
Dez, sometimes you have to give people want they want - DIL wants you to "Honor their Marriage" which I think translates into "Everyone else but me doesn't matter", but you have no choice.  She's got the "blame" sword out and you are the target.

I would back off and give them some space, no matter how hard it is, and I do know how hard it is, I've been there.

Keep yourself busy as much as possible, and focus on what makes you happy.

Hugs, CP
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: ohmama on February 13, 2014, 08:52:09 AM
Hi Dez, there was something in your post that caught my eye. You said you wrote your son an email out of frustration. Frustration and anger can make us say some really mean things if we aren't careful. Maybe I misread but I didn't read that you apologized to your DIL.  I also see that your described her only as distant before your email and then disrespectful after. The email clearly hurt her feelings and well sometimes hurt people hurt other people.
And while I'm a believer in blood family being included in issues with in laws,sometimes we complicate things with our "feelings".
I think this could've been solved by simply inviting your DIL to lunch or a movie. The email to your DS could have asked him what activities your DIL enjoys and then finding common ground. Instead of why his wife doesn't behave the way you think she should.
I really feel an apology to DIL is your first order of business and could go a long way in rectifying this.
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: ohmama on February 13, 2014, 09:05:49 AM
Sorry had to comment that your DIL is great with your GD, her stepdaughter. And she's "ok" with your dH, her FIL. That's a red flag to me about your behavior towards  her. Your DIL isn't just filled with disdain for in laws in general. Her being a good stepmother is evidence of her maturity and capability to exhibit love in a blended family. You did or said something(s) to make her dislike you. Dez, if you really don't know what it could be, you truly have no clue.....Ask.
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Stilllearning on February 13, 2014, 01:37:55 PM
Ohmama you sound like you have had problems with your MIL.  How have you worked that out? 

I found when I backed off (and it was very difficult!) and stopped trying to make it right (apologizing and trying to talk to her with an intermediary involved) things improved.  Did an apology from your MIL work?
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: ohmama on February 13, 2014, 02:34:05 PM
Still learning I am not sure there is a MIL/DiL relationship that doesn't come with its bumps. Sometimes DIL's are just distant because of personality, FOO, or just plain not knowing. At that point it is best to back off and let them come around in time. But Dez described her DIL as a loving Stepmother and ok with FIL so this isn't a push away the in laws thing.
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Stilllearning on February 13, 2014, 05:54:33 PM
ohmama, I don't know of a husband/wife relationship that does not come with some bumps!!!  Often the bumps originate from far away and show up on our doorstep.  When things are bad we tend to vent our emotions on the people we feel the most comfortable with.  The fact that someone does not vent on someone may indicate that they feel less secure with that person.  Trying to dump everything on Dez's doorstep may not be fair to her.  Please rethink your stance. 

Still, backing off and giving them some room is probably the best step.  Dez, go out and enjoy your life!
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: luise.volta on February 13, 2014, 07:22:45 PM
Reminder: We always need to remember that this isn't a debate forum. We share our experiences...and offer suggestions and observations. It is not the intent here to judge and/or advise. Due to the nature of the issues we are facing, we're all pretty vulnerable. Hugs to all...
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: ohmama on February 13, 2014, 08:06:30 PM
Yeah still learning im not sure where your going with that last one but the debate Im not interested in. We're definitely all vulnerable and here for support for one reason or another. We're all just sharing. My suggestion was simply to offer an apology for the email and ask her DIL what she can do to further their relationship. She doesn't understand why her DIL dislikes her, I suggested she be direct and ask. If that's dumping on her then hey Dez, I'm truly sorry.
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: luise.volta on February 13, 2014, 08:44:01 PM
Just time to step back.
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Stilllearning on February 14, 2014, 05:05:25 AM
Rereading my post I should have thought a little longer before I posted it.  "Dumping" was definitely a bad choice of words.  My apologies!   
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: luise.volta on February 14, 2014, 09:33:25 AM
We get to do our best here and being human is part of that. We want to write spontaneously and still thoughtfully...not always an easy assignment. That's why it's a monitored Website...to sometimes offer insight. Not to worry. More hugs...
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: freespirit on February 15, 2014, 12:32:52 AM
In my case, my Dill has alot of issues with herself.  I can't really catagorize her. I've never quite  met anyone like her before. I think she is very phony, and to top that; highly sensitive, egotistical, insecure, and a witch.

So how does a MIL handle it?  I don't, never did, and never will. And the result is; she is kind  but distant to me.  Hey...that's enough for me.  ;) She's not my daughter, thank God,  and I think my son has enough burdens to carry, without me adding to the problem . He knows I'm in the background, if he  should ever  need me...and that suffices.

I think most  problem  people get what they deserve,  without  having to hear it from us MILs.   It's sort of interesting  to simply sit  and  watch the show,...from the distance.  Then go home,  shrug it off  and think;  thank God I don't live there.  :D
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: gettingoldandcranky on February 15, 2014, 09:59:50 AM
i sympathize, dez.  going thru same thing here.  dil is close to her foo - understandable.  but leaves our side of family out completely.  blocks visits, no invitations to events - no calls, no cards, no gifts.  our ds seems to be open and loving to her family but she blocks us out as often as possible.  am always inviting and nice - more at the beginning of the relationship.  devastatingingly hurtful when grandbabies came.  but, with the help of this and other sites, know that i am not alone.  and time makes it a little easier.  if i dwell too much on it, it can be very depressing.  but, it is what it is, i have tried.   just come here to vent and look for support.  that has helped me a lot.
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Pen on February 15, 2014, 06:09:45 PM
(((Hugs))) to all. IMO we're an amazing bunch of folks with heaps to offer; we just need to modify who we offer our fabulousness to :) ! With the help of all of you here at WWU, I finally decided to quit hitting my head against the proverbial brick wall - and I feel much better now. No more wasted effort spent on fruitlessly trying to gain the attention, love and acceptance of those who, for whatever misguided reason, have chosen to exclude me.

When GC come along, I may need a reminder. I'm counting on you!
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: dez on February 21, 2014, 10:11:42 AM
Thank you for all of the advice.  I appreciate your help. To Ohmama, I tried apologizing to her. She talked like everything was ok  but then, did not speak to me the next time we saw each other. I an convinced that there are some DIL's that are just spiteful and it's probably baggage from previous relationships or her  family dynamics.  I have tried everything I know to  make things good. It seems the more I try, the worse it gets. My husband & I do not constantly stay in their business. We rarely call.  We are just left out and I don't see that changing unless God gets a hold of her. I am trying not to be bitter and full of hate because that will only hurt me.  Right now I am praying they NEVER have children.   I see my son getting very tired of this after a while. He loves his family and we have always been close.  I will be kind but I have to set boundaries. I do not intend on being around the rude & disrespectful behavior again. We will approach our son when the time is right & explain our boundaries. 
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Pooh on February 21, 2014, 10:31:36 AM
I think that is a wonderful plan.
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: marmark1 on March 23, 2014, 01:32:11 AM
Dez.im sure you are right.I hope so because I'm going to do the same with my DIL.The trouble is I have the most beautiful GD.But I know like you ,my son has enough on his plate,so will keep away,and hope she comes to me.
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Lillycache on March 25, 2014, 10:02:24 AM
I often think all this would have been easier if I had had a girl or two..   It seems to me that when  a  daughter has kids.. they are more like YOUR  kids.  When your son has kids, they are some other woman's kids.  We mothers of the dads tend to be treated as interlopers rather than 1/4th the DNA of the children.  But alas.. I had only two children.. both boys and one is a confirmed bachelor.  I tried to be close to my son's kids..  I really did.  But always got the feeling I was being kept at arms length.. I am sure there are many anecdotal exceptions, but really, for the most part this is how it seems to be.   So that ship has sailed for me, and I have accepted what was dealt.... moved on... and I really am enjoying life with my hubby and my animals.. and those folks that love me.   

Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: marmark1 on March 25, 2014, 10:30:03 AM
Lily cache ,I'm very glad for you.But I can't give up yet.My son phoned the other day and said she doesn't dislike me.He said he's not sure what it is.
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Lillycache on March 25, 2014, 10:42:38 AM
Quote from: marmark1 on March 25, 2014, 10:30:03 AM
Lily cache ,I'm very glad for you.But I can't give up yet.My son phoned the other day and said she doesn't dislike me.He said he's not sure what it is.


I know you can't..  You have not reached that place.   It's been over 4 years for me.   I just want you to know that it can happen and that you don't have to be on perpetual tenderhooks... wondering and worrying and guessing forever..   Eventually that whole thing gets old and you truely move on.   I personally don't give a hang if my DIL hates me or loves me or anywhere in between.  She just doesn't matter one bit.  She is a complete nonentity.   I love my son's kids, but I really don't know them, and that's sad, but not my doing.     I'm really content chatting once in awhile with my son.  HE is the one that matters most to me..
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Pooh on March 25, 2014, 10:46:39 AM
Quote from: Lillycache on March 25, 2014, 10:02:24 AM
I often think all this would have been easier if I had had a girl or two..   It seems to me that when  a  daughter has kids.. they are more like YOUR  kids.  When your son has kids, they are some other woman's kids.  We mothers of the dads tend to be treated as interlopers rather than 1/4th the DNA of the children.  But alas.. I had only two children.. both boys and one is a confirmed bachelor.  I tried to be close to my son's kids..  I really did.  But always got the feeling I was being kept at arms length.. I am sure there are many anecdotal exceptions, but really, for the most part this is how it seems to be.   So that ship has sailed for me, and I have accepted what was dealt.... moved on... and I really am enjoying life with my hubby and my animals.. and those folks that love me.

I'm there with you in this thinking, although we have plenty here that have just as much trouble out of their DD's.  I also think it is an important lesson to those with daughters they get along with to encourage them to foster a relationship with their MIL (as long as they don't have one of THOSE MIL's :)).  If I had a DD, I would be telling her that no one is perfect, to look over someone else's personality quirks and to remember that she is family and a GM too.  For me, many of these seem to be fueled by the DIL's Mother as well.  Wouldn't it be nice if they encouraged a relationship with the MIL instead of discouraging it or flat out interring with it due to their own jealousies or insecurities?
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: marmark1 on March 25, 2014, 12:42:28 PM
Lilly cache has it had any effect on your DIL.and what does your son think.
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: marmark1 on March 25, 2014, 12:45:05 PM
Pooh.you are absolutely right.If only.
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Lillycache on March 25, 2014, 02:48:57 PM
Quote from: marmark1 on March 25, 2014, 12:42:28 PM
Lilly cache has it had any effect on your DIL.and what does your son think.

I have absolutely no idea how or IF this has affected my DIL... nor do I care.   My son wishes she had not treated his mom the way she did and does his best to bring the kids over and to stay in contact.
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: marmark1 on March 26, 2014, 01:58:00 AM
What I would like to know ,especially from those who do see their DIL.Do you speak to her.?Do you interact with her and GC?What if son isn't there,is it uncomfortable? Do you still give her presents? Do you still give GC money? If you visit,son will have to leave the room at some point.What do you do then.Is it uncomfortable.
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Pen on March 26, 2014, 09:51:05 AM
My DIL went from schmoozing us as a fiancée to get what she wanted to immediately shunning us after the wedding. You can read my past posts, I don't really want to drag all that old stuff out now except to say she admitted to DS at the time that we hadn't done anything wrong, she and her FOO just didn't like us and thought we were "losers."

DH and I decided to take the high road - even though DS was furious with his wife and ILs, we knew there would come a time when he wasn't upset and we'd look really bad if we'd jumped in to diss DIL/her FOO. I treasured the times DS would contact me (usually when DIL wasn't around) and I refused to engage in DIL bashing, stating that this was between he & DIL and that DIL had to come first in his life now.

So, against the advice of DS, we continued to treat her with politeness and civility. We gave her gifts when those occasions rolled around. I clung to this site like a drowning person and screamed into pillows at times...but I continued on the high road. I'm glad I did; it worked for us and our situation.

DIL acts as if she accepts us a bit more now; whether or not she truly does (I have my doubts) is a moot point. My attitude towards her at this point in our relationship is polite & supportive, but I will may never completely trust her...in other words, I watch my back.
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: marmark1 on March 26, 2014, 12:01:39 PM
Do any body recommend confronting her about what she dislikes about me.
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Lillycache on March 26, 2014, 12:10:07 PM
Quote from: marmark1 on March 26, 2014, 12:01:39 PM
Do any body recommend confronting her about what she dislikes about me.

You certainly can..... but be willing and prepared to accept what you might hear.   It was sort of like that when my DIL and I had our last stand.  10 years of venom spilled out over the course of a hour or so.  After that there was no way any relationship between us could be salvaged.  To me.. it became impossible to even look at her again let alone continue on.  You just don't know what she is going to say or how hurtful and ugly it will be.  Then again... some people are able to clear the air and make a better stronger bond.   It could go either way is what I'm saying.
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: luise.volta on March 26, 2014, 01:52:50 PM
I don't recommend it. Her view of you isn't who you are and you can't remake yourself to her specifications, even if you wanted to. Sending more hugs...
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Pooh on March 27, 2014, 06:24:46 AM
Quote from: marmark1 on March 26, 2014, 12:01:39 PM
Do any body recommend confronting her about what she dislikes about me.

It's a very slippery slope.  I am a very upfront person and my personality dictates that I try to find out what an issue is and fix it if it can be fixed.  The problem lies in the other party.  If they are that type as well, then I think this approach can work and things can be worked out.  The slippery slope is that the majority of the time, you wouldn't be having this issue to begin with, if the other party was that type of person.

Like Pen, when I asked DS what the deal was, the answer I got was, "You have done nothing wrong."  Well if we haven't done anything wrong, why are we in this mess to begin with?  That was my answer.  It wasn't going to matter if we did anything wrong or not.  She had decided that we were not wanted or needed in their life no matter what.  The why's didn't matter at that point because the why was simply because she had made that decision.  I wasn't going to spend any more of my energy or time trying to convince someone that we were worthy of being in their lives when they had no reason to remove us to begin with.

Their choice, their decision.  I don't have to like it or understand it.  I'm only responsible for not letting it ruin my life.
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: luise.volta on March 27, 2014, 08:53:25 AM
Often when this happens, we are talking perceptions. When others think/feel that their perceptions, which were created by their conditioning and their filters...are fact, all I know of to do (no matter who they are) is to accept that and step back. We can't enter into...understand or live in another person's mind. More hugs...
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Pen on March 27, 2014, 09:02:03 AM
Luise, it's that wisdom that got me through it. Thank you.

I also agree with Pooh's conclusion that "It wasn't going to matter if we did anything wrong or not.  She had decided that we were not wanted or needed in their life no matter what.  The why's didn't matter at that point because the why was simply because she had made that decision."

As MILs we are often not needed or wanted by our DILs. Unlike in the "olden days," they no longer need our acceptance in order to be with our DSs. Our DSs aren't likely to break up their marriages and lose their children over us. We might not be valued simply because we're their husband's mother or their children's grandmother. Those MILs who have civil, or possibly even loving, relationships with their DILs are very fortunate. The rest of us need to adjust and move on.

It's heartbreaking, and I don't understand how a young woman who claims to love a man could possibly want to estrange him and his children from his FOO (assuming his FOO wasn't full of criminals or worse.) But even if I did understand it, how would that insight change my situation? As in Pooh's case, my DIL made her decision and that's the end of it. Occasionally my DS steps up to defend us and insists on spending a little time with us, and I treasure those moments.
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Lillycache on March 27, 2014, 09:38:58 AM
I believe that is the most important thing... acceptance.   You cannot burden your mind with what's fair and what's unfair... or how things SHOULD be.  Eventually, you have to get to the point of accepting things as they are.  It's hard to do that, but in the end it's what heals you. 
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Monroe on March 29, 2014, 04:19:05 PM
I read and identify with many of the MILs here.  This is a response in general, not to any specific posting. 

I don't worry about our DIL accepting us.  We welcomed her with open arms - she pushed us away.  We continued to reach out and be open - she made it clear she had no interest in a relationship with us.  We accepted that a number of years ago.  She has always tolerated us - but that's truly the extent of her interest in us. 

Our son loves us - but has chosen a life partner with zero interest in his FOO.  Is he blind?  Certainly.  Did it hurt?  Certainly.  I guess I could have figured tolerance was acceptable - but frankly I deserve better than that.  So now I pretty much ignore them both.  I have not cut either of them off - but at their age (30ish) and stage in life, plus the fact that they live far away - - I don't think they even notice that I am not part of their lives. 

Their loss.  I deserve better than tolerance.  And he is so influenced by her, that interactions with him are not very satisfactory either. 

I have gotten to where I prefer the company of friends who value me - find me interesting and worth spending time with.  I don't have to settle for tolerance.  I can't demand friendship or respect or affection - but I don't have to settle for tolerance, either. 

Just saying'

Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Footloose on March 31, 2014, 12:14:17 PM
So how does a MIL handle it?  I don't, never did, and never will. And the result is; she is kind  but distant to me.  Hey...that's enough for me.  ;) She's not my daughter, thank God,  and I think my son has enough burdens to carry, without me adding to the problem . He knows I'm in the background, if he  should ever  need me...and that suffices.

I think most  problem  people get what they deserve,  without  having to hear it from us MILs.   It's sort of interesting  to simply sit  and  watch the show,...from the distance.  Then go home,  shrug it off  and think;  thank God I don't live there.  :D

-------
FreeSpirit,  I agree totally! Thank God, I don't live there or even near DS and his brood for now!  I fought it so much and cried and lamented and apologized and analyzed until I almost burst and ya know what?  It changed NOTHING in my relationship with my son.  It really just made it worse.   

My plans for my role in my son's family were mine alone.  So what if it has been a multi generational norm for families to be inclusive and happily grow with additions?   My son broke that tradition and many more but my life went on anyway and so did his. 

The sun still comes up each morning in spite of my unmet expectations about my gandmotherhood that all wete generated in the past. 

This "loss" was impacting my future as well.  All of the milestones I had expected to be part of are most likely never going to happen and if they do, i am sure not like anything I had expected.

My expectations have been known to exceed reality on a daily basis so I have learned to limit expectations and Know that stuff happens and the best plans may fulfill in a different result or never at all.

The best we can do is live this life we have today.  The past is gone and the future may never be so the best we can do is live right now with the people who are in our lives.

So we can waste our talents time and energy chasing the past or building expectations that have a great chance in disappointment or we can relax that perceived control and simply relax and take our time one second, on minute, one hour or day at a time.

Hugs dear sisters, it does get better.

If you cant be with the one you love, honey, love the one you're with.

As wise Luise says, she has a multitude of adopted children and we are among them here.  Surprise, Loise, it's a girl!  um and she's way over the newborn size and is actually half a century old!  LOL!!!

p.s.
Some assembly required!
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: autumnwoman on April 14, 2014, 06:43:33 AM
Footloose, I was so touched by your reply to this feed. It summed up where I am in my life with my OS and DIL. They have moved over 10 hours away and I see my grandson once in a blue moon. It's heartbreaking but I come here and read often.

I haven't posted in a long time things had gotten a lot better, I was even included in their move to help of course and stayed with them for a week. Afterwards it took 6 weeks and it was almost like 2 years ago, no responding to texts, not answering the phone so I backed off. This site and you wonderful ladies helped me the first time to understand how to protect myself and have NO expectations. My OS was in town at his Inlaws for 6 days and he did bring my GS over for about 40 minutes, so I loved and played with my GS and asked no questions. So until next time I live my life with my soon to be husband and enjoy my YS who is my sunshine!

Even my YS is not happy with his brother or SIL, so we enjoy each other. I will always be grateful for you wonderful ladies and Luise who is our rock!  Thank you for getting me "through" the worst 5 years. My OS has been married 3 years but together for 8. So I hope for the best and I'm thankful for my friends and family that value me as much as I do them! Love and hugs to all!
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: luise.volta on April 14, 2014, 11:36:05 AM
AW - How wonderful to hear from you again. What a win! Sending hugs to you and yours...
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Pen on April 15, 2014, 09:53:39 PM
Autumnwoman, so nice to see you here again. I'm glad you are making progress.
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: PFORTE on May 12, 2014, 08:22:36 PM
Quote from: marmark1 on March 26, 2014, 12:01:39 PM
Do any body recommend confronting her about what she dislikes about me.

I know it's not the popular answer - But I do recommend having a chat with her.  Pick one or two areas that you'd like to discuss (not your entire relationship!) - things that seem solvable.  Engage her help in creating a stronger relationship with her for the benefit of her husband/your son.  After all - you both love him!  If something dreaded were to happen, you'd be thrown together in the worst of times - it's important to learn to get along.  And no, I don't mean "remake" yourself, but some times, chatting over a cup of coffee about something can REALLY open your eyes as to how the other person perceives you.  Perhaps you say "Oh that's a laugh!" and you mean it's a joke.  But she hears "Oh that's a laugh!" and to her it means you're saying SHE is a joke.  The subtleties of conversation are heart-wrenching.  She didn't grow up with you - she doesn't understand your nuances.  And You have to be willing to take a step back and see where your habits may seem offensive, as will she.  There's a huge chasm in between "You didn't do anything wrong" and "You've done lots of things right" - we need to build bridges across that chasm, one at a time, till a true loving relationship is there and can withstand everyone's various moods and differences.

But start with something EASY to solve. Something you can work together on.  Maybe some plans for your son's bday. Call her up "We'd like to take you guys to dinner to celebrate his birthday, but I don't want to interfere with any plans you might be making or he might already have - can you suggest any dates that would work?  I was thinking xx yy zz".  It will go a LONG way for her to see that you respect that she is FIRST in his life.  You're respecting her, acknowledging that SHE is the Queen in his life now, and including her as a welcome asset. 

I also think it's CRITICAL to re-affirm that it IS their life, and you whole heartedly respect that.  It's not "Your Granddaughter" - it's "Her Daughter" and until she's POSITIVE that you respect that that comes first, there will always be tension. "I'd like to get a new summer outfit for your daughter - but I'm never sure what you like her to wear - can we go pick something out and I'll pay?"

I think people are only spiteful when they're hurt and/or threatened.  As the "older / wiser" woman it's our job to toss a bone, and WORK ON making peace and a loving environment for our grandbabies.  Our children's spouse is not someone that we will ever win against in a battle of "who loves ya more" - so we have to love our children enough to let go, and love their spouse enough to hold on.

We all say and do things that are hurtful.  We seldom mean to.  Working to peace is well worth the journey.

Best of luck!  Don't give up - that "other woman" is someone your child thinks is the BEST person in the world - there's got to be SOMETHING of value in them! :-)  Try to see her(him) through your child's eyes - it might help.




Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: jdtm on May 13, 2014, 05:17:05 AM
PFORTE - maybe "discussing" areas with some DILs might work; with others it will not.  In our situation, our ex-DIL suffers from mental health issues (subtle, but nonetheless present).  Any hint of negativity or perceived hint of negativity resulted in rages and temper tantrums.  I'm not saying this is the issue in this thread; however, many of us found our way to this site because of personality disorders and/or mental health issues.  My point - be careful as some people can not/will not accept any form of criticism (actual or perceived).  In our case it was perceived - silent treatment for eight years was result.  Funny - since the divorce, she actually will speak to us now (except my husband will not reciprocate - he had enough).  Me - I'm polite, distantly, for the sake of the grandchildren.  Now with our second DIL .... 
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Stilllearning on May 13, 2014, 05:29:37 AM
I agree jdtm....my DIL is in therapy and if I say something looks better she takes it as an insult to the way it looked before.  I have found the only way to deal with her is to ignore the silent treatment she gives and never initiate contact with her or my DS.  If I initiate contact she gets even more insecure and pulls away even harder.  Luckily my pulling away has made them step closer, but that is not always the case.  I had to be ready for the other option when I stepped back, but in my case I saw nothing to lose.
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Footloose on May 13, 2014, 06:00:44 AM
I think the mental health issue is a big part in my case too.  "Get back on Facebook so it's easy to get pics of the kids." After my resistance, I gave in and reopened my acct. Not one week later, I get a news feed where she is dripping over granaries day and how her kids think their papa and nana  are the best ever. DH and I got no mention.  I fired Facebook for the last time and have a no social media policy that will remain. I call this treatment a poke in the eye.
Got another poke yesterday. No word on Mother's Day but a text of my GD smiling for the camera.  No words just her pic. I ignored it until this AM and messaged back with a shot reply.....good morning cutie pie.....
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Stilllearning on May 13, 2014, 06:36:22 AM
I don't think my DIL realized that her posts on FB were hurting my feelings so I told her.  I told her that I was not going to be on facebook very much anymore because my feelings were hurt when I found out that she and my DS and GD went just miles from my house and never stopped in.  I told her it was their right to do that but it still hurt my feelings and it was my right to not know about it.  I have not had any repercussions from it and their posts have calmed down.  Sometimes it is better to tell them how their actions make you feel than it is to tell them to stop acting a certain way.   
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Footloose on May 13, 2014, 06:52:49 AM
I tried the direct approach and it didn't work either and ya know why?  It's NOT about ME! I know this dynamic too well after 6 years of it.  If I had told her the truth, she would have blown it up as another problem that is mine to solve.  I just know it would do no good but rather give her what she wants, a scrimmage.  I just said that social media is not for me, which is the real truth and I have always had issues with it. If I was honest, she would have denied it and said oh you are too sensitive, don't be jealous, we love you too, yak, yak, yak...Then she would go to my son and tell him I am off my meds again.....(joke ONLY)  My choice to use FB or not and I choose NOT. Nuff said? :)
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Footloose on May 13, 2014, 06:57:05 AM
BTW,  the very worst FB story:

GS nbr2 was turning3.  DH and I got invited over on his birthday to celebrate:) DIL calls the morning of and asks if I can pick up cake and decor.  i say cool and bring over the party essentials. 

Soon after we arrive, it is apparent that it will only be us 2 and DH/DIL w/ GKs. I ask where everyone else is and am told they couldn't make it.  Nice!

The next Monday I get FB news feed of the "real" party that excluded me and DH but included everyone else.....yup, poke in da eye!!!!
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Stilllearning on May 13, 2014, 07:35:44 AM
FL....How horrible!!  I am so sorry that you are in that situation!  I think you are handling it better than I would.  Good luck and hang in there!
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Pooh on May 13, 2014, 07:48:58 AM
I think it's great PFORTE that you have the ability to do this.  My experience has been that having a chat only works if the other party is receptive.  And it took me a long time of trying to come to the realization that it wasn't about me at all.  And also to understand that when a person isn't interested in a relationship with you at all, they will find fault with anything you do, real or not.

People hear what they choose to hear and believe what they choose to believe. 
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: confusedbyinlaws on May 13, 2014, 08:33:09 AM
Quote from: PFORTE on May 12, 2014, 08:22:36 PM
Quote from: marmark1 on March 26, 2014, 12:01:39 PM
Do any body recommend confronting her about what she dislikes about me.
The subtleties of conversation are heart-wrenching.  She didn't grow up with you - she doesn't understand your nuances.  And You have to be willing to take a step back and see where your habits may seem offensive, as will she.  There's a huge chasm in between "You didn't do anything wrong" and "You've done lots of things right" - we need to build bridges across that chasm, one at a time, till a true loving relationship is there and can withstand everyone's various moods and differences.

But start with something EASY to solve. Something you can work together on.  Maybe some plans for your son's bday. Call her up "We'd like to take you guys to dinner to celebrate his birthday, but I don't want to interfere with any plans you might be making or he might already have - can you suggest any dates that would work?  I was thinking xx yy zz".  It will go a LONG way for her to see that you respect that she is FIRST in his life.  You're respecting her, acknowledging that SHE is the Queen in his life now, and including her as a welcome asset. 

I also think it's CRITICAL to re-affirm that it IS their life, and you whole heartedly respect that.  It's not "Your Granddaughter" - it's "Her Daughter" and until she's POSITIVE that you respect that that comes first, there will always be tension. "I'd like to get a new summer outfit for your daughter - but I'm never sure what you like her to wear - can we go pick something out and I'll pay?"

I think people are only spiteful when they're hurt and/or threatened.  As the "older / wiser" woman it's our job to toss a bone, and WORK ON making peace and a loving environment for our grandbabies.  Our children's spouse is not someone that we will ever win against in a battle of "who loves ya more" - so we have to love our children enough to let go, and love their spouse enough to hold on.

We all say and do things that are hurtful.  We seldom mean to.  Working to peace is well worth the journey.

Best of luck!  Don't give up - that "other woman" is someone your child thinks is the BEST person in the world - there's got to be SOMETHING of value in them! :-)  Try to see her(him) through your child's eyes - it might help.
PFORTE,  I love what you have said here.  i don't know that having a "chat" works well for everyone.  It certainly didn't help me much with my inlaws, but in other relationships it has helped me to talk openly when things feel bad.  But what I really love about what you have said is that it demonstrates respect for a DIL's role and place in her husband's life, rather than trying to compete with that position.   And it shows  an understanding that her ways and upbringing are different but you can still respect that.  I agree that people only feel spiteful or angry when they feel hurt and it's something we all need to remember.  Perhaps my MIL insulted me and competed with me because she was worried that her relationship with her son was threatened by my presence.  Ironically, her relationship with her son was never threatened by my presence, but it was damaged because her son was  angry with her about her behavior toward me.
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: PFORTE on May 13, 2014, 10:36:39 PM
Thanks Confused!  I think it's hard for everyone to bridge that gap from child to adult - and some resist more than others.  Mental health problems are a different set of issues altogether - thankfully we haven't had to deal with that on a lasting basis!

Not sure if I'm allowed to post this link here.  If not, go to Youtube and listen to the song "Daughters" by John Mayer.  I think there's a lot of wisdom in the lyrics;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZLbUIa7exE
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Pen on May 14, 2014, 07:58:56 AM
Quote from: Footloose on May 13, 2014, 06:57:05 AM
BTW,  the very worst FB story:

GS nbr2 was turning3.  DH and I got invited over on his birthday to celebrate:) DIL calls the morning of and asks if I can pick up cake and decor.  i say cool and bring over the party essentials. 

Soon after we arrive, it is apparent that it will only be us 2 and DH/DIL w/ GKs. I ask where everyone else is and am told they couldn't make it.  Nice!

The next Monday I get FB news feed of the "real" party that excluded me and DH but included everyone else.....yup, poke in da eye!!!!

FL, that would have been  my last straw too. How thoughtless of them. I hope you didn't purchase enough party goodies for a crowd -it would have been tempting to send them a bill.

I'm not on FB because I know I couldn't handle it. DH is on it & it doesn't bother him when DS/DIL post glowing comments about fun w/her FOO & nothing about us. DH has learned to not tell me about things that might hurt my feelings, but I have friends who innocently mention things they see ("So DS is going overseas?" when he hadn't mentioned it to me.) To quote Carly Simon, "I haven't got time for the pain."  My friends assume everyone's on FB so I do miss out on lots of info & invites, but so far the world hasn't come to an end, lol. I figure I've saved a chunk of change on shower/b-day/anniversary/grad gifts  :D
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Lillycache on May 14, 2014, 12:15:14 PM
Quote from: Footloose on May 13, 2014, 06:57:05 AM
BTW,  the very worst FB story:

GS nbr2 was turning3.  DH and I got invited over on his birthday to celebrate:) DIL calls the morning of and asks if I can pick up cake and decor.  i say cool and bring over the party essentials. 

Soon after we arrive, it is apparent that it will only be us 2 and DH/DIL w/ GKs. I ask where everyone else is and am told they couldn't make it.  Nice!

The next Monday I get FB news feed of the "real" party that excluded me and DH but included everyone else.....yup, poke in da eye!!!!


OMG!!!  DO we have the same DIL?   That very same thing happened to me and DH... only she didn't ask us to stop and buy the cake.  BUT she had her family and friends at the "real Party"  and a DH and I were invited over just by ourselves the next week..  So we were excluded from the "Real Party"   Now I refuse to go to any party.   If DS wants the kids to see me on their birthdays, he brings them over.  If not.. Saves me a gift.  Or I save the gift for Christmas.  I refuse to mail them.  I like to see the kids open the presents I buy.
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: shiny on May 14, 2014, 03:23:30 PM
Lillycache,
I've been re-thinking my stance on sending presents via mail to the GKs. They are in different households, ages two to sixteen, and I don't hear a word from the older GKs -- much less the parents. DH and I have always had close relationships with these kids and they know we love them; however, I, too, just like to see the expressions on their faces!
I don't give to get thanks, but because I love them. I do believe it is super rude not to acknowledge someone who makes an effort to think of you.
My AC were raised to respond with a phone call plus a written thank you to their grandparents for gifts. Maybe they are just resentful about that and now paying me back, ha! DH and I earnestly tried to teach them manners though.

Pen, I'm in the same boat with you! I don't do "Nosebook" (FB) for the same reason -- to minimize my pain.
I recently heard from someone (who is only an acquaintance of DIL) about how she sees pics of my precious GC on FB all the time. Yet DIL won't take the time to email me any pics or any details about the little one. Yeah, it really hurts so I stay away from FB. Otherwise I would see GC with the other GPs all the time, and we see her infrequently...
I'm tired of the hurt, resentment, jealousy, envy, and the all rest that could descend quickly on me if I went to FB because of an insensitive DIL.
Love that quote, because at my age, I don't have time for pain either! It's ticking by in a hurry!
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Lillycache on May 14, 2014, 06:24:29 PM
Personally, I really love Facebook... BUT I don't use it as a communications tool  for family.  I have friended some family members, but we never ever use the news feed or timelines to communicate personal things.  If we do communicate, it's in private message.   To me facebook is a great entertainment tool.  I have "liked" hundreds of pages that pertain to my interests.  Politics, travel, cooking, animals, and several fan clubs to a singing group I am particularly fond of.   I do get into some pretty stimulating debates with perfect strangers on these pages.. I share jokes and watch Youtube videos., and once in a while I'll post what I consider a profound thought on my status..   Facebook can be hurtful... or it can be fun.  It's what you make of it. 
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: luise.volta on May 14, 2014, 07:21:14 PM
LC - I'm with you regarding FB. I use it the same way. 8)
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Cranky Pants on May 14, 2014, 08:11:52 PM
It's been years since I've looked at Facebook, hearing the stories of people who were hurt using electronic media was a "heads up" for me.

CP
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Pooh on May 15, 2014, 05:38:56 AM
I'm the same.  I love Facebook but it takes much discipline.  I only see problems if I go looking for it.  DIL posts pictures of the GD I have never met pretty frequently.  I'm not friends with her but her page is public.  I can go anytime I want and see what they are up to and see pics of my GD.  So it is totally up to me if I choose to go see all of that.  I choose not to. 

We had a couple of mutual friends, so when they would post on hers, or she would post on theirs, it would show up on my wall.  So I hid those mutual friends from my wall so I don't have to see it.  You can hide anyone's posts where they don't come up on your wall.

I'm like Luise and LC, I love my pages.  I get great ideas, laughs, stories, quotes, etc.  I keep up with family that are scattered and classmates.  I love my Facebook, but here comes the blunt honesty on how I feel.  If you can't handle it and can't not be nosey, then it's better you are not on there.  I could go at any given time and look at everything she is doing and I'm sure my feelings would be hurt.  That would be my fault though for going to look.  There is enough safeguards in place that I don't ever have to see anything I don't want unless I choose to.  I guarantee you at least 50% of my friends are on there simply to be nosey to what everyone else is doing.  They never post, comment, like anything but yet every time I run into them, they remark on everything we have been doing.  We don't put family matters or personal stuff on there, but I'll post pictures of vacation and stuff, or my Scleroderma events, bike rides, etc.  They will remark on "Oh that picture of you and DH was hilarious at the waterfall!"

So I know they are just nosey nosey nosey.  If you can't interact, then your a nosey nosey in my book.  If you're using it to spy on people or go looking for trouble, then it's good you don't have an account, because it's easy to find.

Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Footloose on May 15, 2014, 06:06:01 AM
I am too nosey. I used to get to missing them and hunt photos. That is how I got to see my last grandchild after she was born . The eldest lost his first tooth, etc...

I cannot handle it and it is OK.    So we collect friends like base ball cards and are not a allowed to look. 
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Pooh on May 15, 2014, 06:27:53 AM
Quote from: Footloose on May 15, 2014, 06:06:01 AM
So we collect friends like base ball cards and are not a allowed to look. 


Yep.  I didn't want to delete those friends, because it's not their fault that I have issues with my OS/DIL.  They have every right to be friends with them.  So I hide them so that I don't hurt those friends feelings by deleting them and then I don't see it.  I can still go to their wall and comment on their stuff because it only shows up on my wall when they comment on her stuff.  It doesn't show up on their own walls.
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: confusedbyinlaws on May 15, 2014, 07:14:24 AM
Quote from: PFORTE on May 13, 2014, 10:36:39 PM
Thanks Confused!  I think it's hard for everyone to bridge that gap from child to adult - and some resist more than others.  Mental health problems are a different set of issues altogether - thankfully we haven't had to deal with that on a lasting basis!

Not sure if I'm allowed to post this link here.  If not, go to Youtube and listen to the song "Daughters" by John Mayer.  I think there's a lot of wisdom in the lyrics;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZLbUIa7exE
PFORTE,  I love John Mayer and love that song and I agree with you that there's a lot of wisdom in the lyrics. 
Title: Re: distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law
Post by: Lillycache on May 16, 2014, 08:03:41 AM
Fortunately.... for me...   My DIL made sure that she is not "friends" with anyone I have on  my friend list... and that includes my DS  who is her husband!   Therefore, I cannot see anything she posts or see any pictures or read plans... etc.    She must have thought she was really sticking it too me ..    hahahahah...  because I'm sure she thinks I'm just dying to know what she is doing..  Truth be known... I couldn't care less what she or her wonderful FOO is doing.     MY DS is on my friend list, and HE posts pics of the kids.  So no skin off my nose.  I can enjoy FB now and I really really do without wading through any of her stuff.