I know that many MILs get annoyed by there DILs, so I thought I'd offer some insight as to why we do the things we do. Sure there are some DILs that are just plan evil, but I believe most women actually start out by wanting there MILs acceptance. Over time, if we are not getting that, we react (at least that's my story). Here are the issues I've had with my MIL and my reactions to them:
1. I didn't stand up to her in the beginning of our relationship. She would come to our home and take over everything from cooking, cleaning, & kids. I just let her do it even though it offended me. After three years of it, I finally set some boundries. She doesn't like the boundries, but at least now she realizes there can only be one woman of the house.
2. I don't call her. When she comes to visit, I find myself hiding from her. I go in the other room, out to the mall, where ever. I will be nice and spend time with her but only in small doses. I just think the best way to get over the MIL/DIL stress is to keep distance.
3. I probably don't allow her as much time with the kids as I should. I admit its an ego trip on my part. Its my way of getting back at her for interfering in my relationship with DH and my relationship with my children. She does see the kids for two weeks when she comes to visit, if we had a better relationship I would allow her to stay longer.
4. I got caught up in the "Queen Bee" game (we've both played it). "Queen bee" meaning the queen the house. I don't like playing this game, but I will. My MIL is fourty years older than me. Perhaps that's why she's tried to take such control. After three years of marriage, I felt a real need to stand up for myself. I'm a devoted wife and mother. So, I just wanted to prove to my MIL that I deserve respect too.
Unfortunately DH is caught in the middle, a very hard place for any man. He loves his mom, but loves me also. This might hurt my MIL but DH has taken my side on these istances because he has seen for himself just who started this war. Fortunately, he understands why I've reacted the way I have. He dosen't like that it has to come to his, but he understands.
Being a DIL really isnt easy. When you say "I Do" you think it will be just your husband and yourself living happily ever after. We don't dream of other people coming into our marriage. MILs have to accept that when a child gets married there is a certain letting go that needs to be done. I do realize how extremely difficult letting go can be for a Mom (DILs will have to too do it one day) but its part of being a mom. My oldest son starts daycare soon, so I'm doing some letting go right there. If all else fails just try to remember when you where young and what you wanted from you MIL the most.
PS
If your child is in an abusive relationship or your grandchildren are being abused and neglected than you have every right to interfere (and you should) but if you see your child is married to a great spouse and grandchildren are happy and loved, why not show your DIL some appreciation, in that case she will react by showing appreciation to you.
You think we don't? You've got a lot of posts to read and a lot of home work to do here.
huh?
I was responding to your remark "why not show your DIL some appreciation."
That was your first post and I have suggested that you read the subjects here, the stories...hundreds of them...and come back after you have an idea what this site is all about. We are not a MIL site...we are a site that looks at what's up for all of us...MIL, DIL, Parents who have lost adult children...women doing their best to support and love each other.
Oh Okay...
Well, actually no I don't think many MILs show their DILs appreciation at all. Also, I did read many of the post (not hundreds I admit, but many of them). It seems that the MILs here doing a lot of complaining about their DILs, their DS who have turned on them, and not seeing their grandchildren. Some MILs generally seemed confused about it. None of these post mentioned why they thought this was happening, and none of the them mentions how MILs show appreciation to their DILs so I thought I'd offer my insight. It's possible that it could help someone.
I realize by the tone of your response that I've offended you, but if this dosen't apply to you and that's not the MIL you are, than you need not be offended. After all, is there anything in my post that you feel is wrong. If so what is it?
I guess after reading your post I could only ask.. what if your husband acted like this towards your mother? What if your dad came over to talk to him and he ran out of the door and said sorry but the mall is calling. What if when your parents came over your husband refused to let them see the children, after all they are his children.. I think you would be demanding a little more respect from your husband is what I think. I think you'd be demanding that if he loves you then he will respect your parents.
While you choose to play Queen Bee, he could be choosing to play the Macho Man game. But I'm getting the feeling that this is not the case. When your mother comes by is she expected to act solely as a guest or is she comfortable enough to help herself to a cup of coffee or wash up her cup if she so chooses to. Why do you not jump on your hive and challenge her to a good go round of, respect me or else.
Quote3. I probably don't allow her as much time with the kids as I should. I admit its an ego trip on my part. Its my way of getting back at her for interfering in my relationship with DH and my relationship with my children.
Now seriously tell me who is playing the games here?
Great questions Laurie, in fact my husband and I have had that conversation! He told me if it was my family that threated him the way his mom has treated me he would feel the same way I do! But yes, he gets along great with my family. They loooove him and vice versa. I think SILs tend to get along better with MILs as opposed to DILs and MILs.
A guy once told me that when a daughter gets married a mother feels like shes gaining a son, but when a son gets married a mother feels like shes losing her baby. Maybe thats way sons have less drama from the MILs. I don't know.
PS
I could care less if my MIL helps herself to a cup of coffee and washes her cup. Actually I'd rather she do it anyway... Was that a joke?
Hey Lovely,
If you want my thoughts; I'm sure it works both ways. I don't know if us DILs show enough appreciation back. I'm not sure it matters who owes what first, but more a matter of who is going to give in first. And, I'm certainly not speaking for everyone on this board; there are several people here that I think are being treated downright unfairly, and haven't even been given a chance.
Also, I think the issue is that DILs want different things than their MILs did when they were younger. My MIL wanted to be a second daughter. Not me. I have a mom, no room for two. She is very dependent on other people, and I'm not. While I was looking for her acceptance, I wasn't looking for a close relationship. I have a feeling that this is what she wanted most from her MIL. I think she's been very good about doing what she would've wanted as a DIL, but we're all different. I think she wanted to get these things immediately as a DIL, whereas I like to wait and see what will come to pass. I think it's hard to nail down what exactly DILs like across the board, and vice versa.
Some MILs on here want to see their GKs near daily; others don't. Some are even a little apprehensive about babysitting at all. Some really want a mother/daughter relationship with DIL, others aren't really interested in that but more just mutual respect. Some expect to play hostess son visits, while others are taking a more laid back approach.
I know my issue is flexibility, as is my MILs.
that's true hellebore. When I said that MILs should remember what they wanted the most from the MILs I was really thinking of my own.
My husband told me that growing up his mom didn't get along with her MIL (his grandma) for the same reasons her and I don't get along. I find that completely crazy!! I'd think that my MIL would be more understanding since she knows what it feels like. He even told me that she wouldn't let him and his brother go see her because his mom didn't like her. And get this, my husband told me that when his grandmother died his mom actually felt a bit relieved.
I know I may come across as a witch, but the truth is it didn't have to be this way. I really did try to make my MIL happy. I would invite her over to our house for lunch, I drove out of my way to give her rides (she doesn't drive), I gave her gifts for no spacial occasion, encouraged her to be alone with her son so they could have some mother son time, offer to let her watch the grandkids... I could go on. BELEIVE me nothing worked. I tried every trick in the book. I finally gave up after three long years! I can't think of what else I could have done. I'm telling you my MIL is older and stuck in her ways.
PS
Even my DH (her son) gets tired of her and tells me that he doesn't want her to stay over for more than two weeks. You KNOW somethings wrong when even the son is tired of being around his own mom. Because trust me he loves her as much as any son could love a mom but has confessed to be that he wishes she would get her own life. HIS WORDS PEOPLE.
I don't know. 2 weeks seems excessive to me; especially rooming in. If you guys are comfortable with that, that's great...but I think the time factor could be why it seems like you can only take her in small doses.
I think we've all come to a few conclusions here:
1.) Visits are fine; stay in a hotel.
2.) 3 days, max.
I parted friends with a girlfriend after she visited me in Italy. I can't really remember what happened, but 2 weeks was probably at least a week too long.
2 weeks is a really looooooooong time for any guest, even ones I like. What is that saying about guests and fish?
You make some good points but why are you so defensive? It's like your looking for a fight here. Just post your experience and we will believe you, trust me. There's no one to prove anything to here, dear.
This isn't a choose up sides and duke it out site. When a first post generalizes in a critical way...it's doesn't serve anyone. Now, as Pam1 says, your experience, what you are up against and what some of us may be able to offer, that's a different story.
Quotethat's true hellebore
Lol.. love the new name Holliberri.. bet that is the first time you've been called helle-bore
Your first post did not paint you in a very flattering light. You appeared to be ready for the gloves to come off... You will also find here that most women are rightfully offended when someone blatantly says that they will use their children to teach someone else a lesson. Most women here be it MIL's or DIL's view children as humans and not weapons of mass heartache.
While I have always gotten along with my own mil, a two week visit would have been to much.. I think Holli's three days may be to short :) but that's just wishful thinking on her part.
If you take the time to really read, not simply skim over some of the previous postings you'll find that very few people are here to call it quits within their own families.. there are women who are having dil problems.. problems with their own dd's, their sons, etc... The simple fact here is, if we wanted to call it quits and cop a snotty attitude then we probably wouldn't be here to begin with.
Stick around you may find ways to improve your own relationship with your MIL if that is your reason for stopping in.
Hey now, that's not my rule. That's just what I have gathered on here after much research. It does seem to be mentioned a lot. See Pam's post. She even mentions the cliche.
...And considering I see MIL every 6 weeks and she won't won't WON'T stay in a hotel...3 days is just fine, now that I think about it.
I like for my visitors to stay a week if they have the time.. after that they have to help mow the grass. Any less then a week and I feel like we have to become running men to fit it all in. But then again I'm pretty casual about my guest.. now my mil, I loved when they came when we were living in different states.. Mom couldn't sit still and she was like.. would you like for me to sew you a new set of curtains ... Dad was painting my porch.. they were always hard working people and that was how they evaluated their own time on earth.. how much did I get accomplished?
I just told my mil last week that she need not fear being alone that I would like for her to live with us when and if the day came.. she said oh I don't want to be a burden.. I said I won't let you be a burden, we'll get it figured out. OMG I am a softie.
Lol. I am packing my bags and on my way...since you're so casual! :P
I don't think I'd mind houseguests either if they helped around the house-wow!! I never minded the ILs coming overseas to see us, but our house was bigger and we saw them once/twice a year.
The frequency of the visits, the size of my house and the small amount of leave we have has changed my tolerance a bit though.
I can't even do a week.
I need my privacy and I think I have OCD. Can't stand messes and clutter and things out of order. It's unsettling b/c I constantly want to rearrange my guest and their stuff. I like people to sit in certain places....ohhhh, I'm letting my crazy out of the bag. I also was brought that a guest is a guest so I refuse help with anything. I cannot relax at all with a guest so a week or more than a couple days....woooo, Pam needs a tranquilizer.
And my pack starts to get antsy and trying to rearrange pack order and my alpha status is tested quite a bit by my babies (I've got 4 dogs.)
You are a softie, Laurie!
I have a son and DIL, an ex-DIL, and two sort-of daughters who all want me to come and live with them when Val passes. I have told them all that I want them to keep imagining I'm wonderful, so I decline. :)
Pam-same here. I can't turn it off, but it wears me out.
I get antsy at other people's houses too. Even in a hotel, 3 days is my limit. I just never managed to relax and settle down, and I am thinking about all the things I need to be doing at home.
I left my little bro's graduation early...and headed for the beach and then on home. I planned on staying 5 days with him...I lasted a day and a half.
Quote from: pam1 on February 04, 2011, 08:12:28 PM
I can't even do a week.
I need my privacy and I think I have OCD. Can't stand messes and clutter and things out of order. It's unsettling b/c I constantly want to rearrange my guest and their stuff. I like people to sit in certain places....ohhhh, I'm letting my crazy out of the bag. I also was brought that a guest is a guest so I refuse help with anything. I cannot relax at all with a guest so a week or more than a couple days....woooo, Pam needs a tranquilizer.
And my pack starts to get antsy and trying to rearrange pack order and my alpha status is tested quite a bit by my babies (I've got 4 dogs.)
Woo - pass Pam the bottle of wine
Quote from: luise.volta on February 04, 2011, 08:12:39 PM
You are a softie, Laurie!
I have a son and DIL, an ex-DIL, and two sort-of daughters who all want me to come and live with them when Val passes. I have told them all that I want them to keep imagining I'm wonderful, so I decline. :)
My MIL has a true fear of nursing homes.. a couple of years ago when she developed a mobility problem she got rather nasty as if it was everyone else's fault.. she would constantly say.. Well just put me in a nursing home.. so my fil did.. I think she learned a valuable lesson
Icky wine. Gimme a beer!
Wow! :o
Yeah, it is unfortunate but my tummy can't handle wine.
Quote from: holliberri on February 04, 2011, 08:09:10 PM
Lol. I am packing my bags and on my way...since you're so casual! :P
I am pretty causal about company after they get here.. I'll break out my vinegar before hand.. but once here I'll mix up a big jug of Sangria ... or a batch of cinnamon pecans and sit by the pool side watching the stars.... Ok not this time of year so come in the summer.
Quote from: pam1 on February 04, 2011, 08:12:28 PM
I can't even do a week.
It's unsettling b/c I constantly want to rearrange my guest and their stuff. I like people to sit in certain places
As Cezar would say pssssst psssst.. and snap you and your pack into a calm submissive state. I do think it's funny that you like for people to sit in certain places.
Quote from: pam1 on February 04, 2011, 08:29:49 PM
Icky wine. Gimme a beer!
Yeah I'm not a beer drinker .. and I like fruity wine
It's terrible. I'm ok without guests and don't make family members or dogs sit in certain places lol. But overnight guests...
We all have our quirks, right? Right??
Pam that one may surpass a little quirk :) I actually don't often have overnight guest who are not family.. well does my dd's bf and ds's gf count?
You let gf's and bf's stay the night? ;) j/k
I meant to refer to it as household family members. But even though, I DO control my urge to put people in their place!
I know I've admitted to this before.. when we moved into this house I decided to put two beds in my master.. I was just tired of lousy sleep due to our rock hard mattress that dh loves and needs... so I bought myself a squishy pillow top and the beds are right next to each other.. kinda like Lucy and Desi (remember them?) The last time two of the kids were home, my ds and his gf took the guest room and dd and her bf took the extra bedroom.. I stood there thinking.. the kids are all sleeping together with their 'others' and dh and I are in separate beds.. what's this world come to.
Pam1, you should open a wax museum. You could arrange everyone just so and they'd stay put ;)
I like the idea of entertaining & having guests, but not the reality...I guess I really am a hermit crab, LOL.
Laurie, I'm so jealous! I want my own bed. I love DH, but I can't sleep well anymore. He'd feel rejected, though :(
Actually at first my dh did feel rejected.. but the other night we were looking at hotels for our august trip.. he said oh look this room has two queen beds.. how about that one .. lol.. I know he is sleeping better as well. My constant tossing and turning was keeping him awake as he is a very light sleeper... we looked at the sleep number beds but for the 3k that they cost I decided that I could buy a second full size bed in my required comfort level for a lot less money.
At Christmas.. I put 6 of the kids in our room.. 2 in each bed and I put a full size mattress in my closet there were a total of five dogs of various sizes and dh and I slept in the spare bedroom.. it was perfect
You're right for whoever said I was being defensive. In fact, that was my whole point!!!!! Some DILs have felt the need to defend themselves against our MILs, as a reaction for things she's done to us. Perhaps I should have worded my title differently, maybe "the reasons DILs get defensive" or something like that. Point is, I thought it might actually help MILs if they knew why we do what we do. Some don't seem to know.
Also, I didn't say that I never let my MIL see the kids. She sees them when she comes for a two week visit. What I was saying was, if my MIL and I had a better relationship, I would allow her to stay longer, therefore she would get to see the kids longer. However, we don't get along so I don't want her to stay longer (duh). I actually think I deserve an award for letting her stay two weeks. lol
Now is it fair for DILs to get defensive and react the way we do? Maybe/maybe not, but this is not a game I invented. I'm telling you MILs that this is the way many (not all) DILs will react to bad behavior whether you think it's fair or not. At the end of the day is it really worth losing the relationship you have with your grandkids or DS? I'm not even suggesting you have to like your DIL just respect her, if nothing else, so you can have peace.
And remember MILs, people of my generation (I'm 30) tend to look at difficult relationships as optional. I think the older generations (my MIL is 73) had more loyalty. I'm not saying which generation is right. I'm just saying that's the way it is. Don't kill the messenger
I'm not sure you're saying anything we haven't said before. Everyone on here knows my issues with my MIL, it's my MIL that can't wrap her brain around it.
Conversely, I get what the MILs issues are with their DIL...I still can't quite grasp what MIL's issue is with me (could be that she doesn't have any; that doesn't help me).
I just think it's a tad more complex than what you're saying.
lovelyd, lol that's what we've been doing since Luise opened this board! I mean, we aren't announcing our intentions to teach one another but we talk it out.
You DO have some good points but you've got some flaws -- I'm a DIL, not MIL...yet and your reasons for being defensive here or even with your MIL don't resonate with me at all. So why speak for me or anyone else? Just do it for yourself.
Look, I can see you really can benefit here. Not all people can, they either aren't willing or even in a place where they could chose to be willing to help themselves. You can...
Quote from: Pen on February 04, 2011, 09:33:02 PM
Pam1, you should open a wax museum. You could arrange everyone just so and they'd stay put ;)
I like the idea of entertaining & having guests, but not the reality...I guess I really am a hermit crab, LOL.
Laurie, I'm so jealous! I want my own bed. I love DH, but I can't sleep well anymore. He'd feel rejected, though :(
That reminds me of that terrible horror movie about a town full of wax people. Ick.
I want my own bed too. It sounds like a fabulous idea to me, I think DH and I would both get better sleep.
Thanks pam1 for pointing out that I have some points as well as flaws.For some reason its easier to forget I have them too. I really do want to get along with my MIL, I just gave up trying. However, I don't really want to be the kind of mom who uses her kids as "weapons". Though it really is easier to distance myself and my children rather than trying to deal with her. On the other hand, my kids can benefit from having my MIL in their lives after all, shes had years of life experience, shes wise in many ways, and has raised to good kids of her own.
As far as speaking for everyone, I don't think I am. Not all DILs are like me, I'm sure. I'll be more careful about how I word things so that I'm sure I'm speaking strictly for myself.
Quote from: lovelyd on February 05, 2011, 04:08:57 AM
You're right for whoever said I was being defensive. In fact, that was my whole point!!!!! Some DILs have felt the need to defend themselves against our MILs, as a reaction for things she's done to us. Perhaps I should have worded my title differently, maybe "the reasons DILs get defensive" or something like that. Point is, I thought it might actually help MILs if they knew why we do what we do. Some don't seem to know.
Also, I didn't say that I never let my MIL see the kids. She sees them when she comes for a two week visit. What I was saying was, if my MIL and I had a better relationship, I would allow her to stay longer, therefore she would get to see the kids longer. However, we don't get along so I don't want her to stay longer (duh). I actually think I deserve an award for letting her stay two weeks. lol
Now is it fair for DILs to get defensive and react the way we do? Maybe/maybe not, but this is not a game I invented. I'm telling you MILs that this is the way many (not all) DILs will react to bad behavior whether you think it's fair or not. At the end of the day is it really worth losing the relationship you have with your grandkids or DS? I'm not even suggesting you have to like your DIL just respect her, if nothing else, so you can have peace.
And remember MILs, people of my generation (I'm 30) tend to look at difficult relationships as optional. I think the older generations (my MIL is 73) had more loyalty. I'm not saying which generation is right. I'm just saying that's the way it is. Don't kill the messenger
Lovelyd, welcome. I agree with those who say 2 weeks is too long by easily a week if not more. I'm a DIL & an MIL, and as much as I loved my MIL, and as sad as I always was to see her leave, I think I'd have been a basket case by week 2. How about cutting short those long visits and making a commitment to keep her up-to-date on her GC's doings? Maybe once a month make sure she gets the latest news/pics? You probably do so with your own FOO & friends anyway, so adding her to the list isn't a big deal.
I agree that with some people difficult relationships are viewed as optional, but it's not just your generation. The "me" school of pop psychology back in the '70's paved the way for those beliefs. My DF, SM (elderly folks), and a few friends of my generation (sliding into senior citizenship any day now) have no trouble moving on rather than working things out.
Here's the thing - young DILs haven't yet experienced MIL-hood, whereas most of us MILs have been DILs. I do believe most of the MILs on this site consciously decided NOT to be difficult MILs when their kids married and are sincerely confused about the treatment they are getting from DILs, DILs FOO & often DS who has to keep them all happy.
DH & I totally backed off even before the wedding although we were still helping DS financially and were willing to pay for the groom's side wedding expenses (more lavish than we would have budgeted for, but we did it anyway.) We've given no advice, have never dropped in, rarely call or text, do not put DIL or her FOO down to DS, do not expect holiday visits, etc. There is no reason for our DIL to hate us but she does, and since she's in charge of their social calendar we get the the leftovers if anything while her FOO sees them daily and for every holiday and celebration.
Picture yourself raising your child lovingly and responsibly; taking them around to their various activities, cheering them on; making sure they are healthy and safe; paying for college; enjoying them as adults, having great discussions, proud of their accomplishments; having an easy, friendly and fun time when you see them - and suddenly nothing. It hurts, it's confusing and it is unnecessary.
Quote from: pam1 on February 05, 2011, 06:47:12 AM
I want my own bed too. It sounds like a fabulous idea to me, I think DH and I would both get better sleep.
I read an article while waiting at an office about 2 weeks ago that talked about this very thing...Who knew that Lucy and Desi were trend setters :) It spoke about how especially in a world where most families rely on dual incomes that it has become more prevalent to see couples sleeping in separate beds.. Quite a few were even in separate rooms.. one couple had taken this to separate floors of the house.
I never realized it but as you get older your sleeping pressure points are more effected by reduced movement through the night...it really made sense when he demanded a rock hard bed and I want fluffy and cloud like. This just gives date night a new meaning. I also like to let my chihuahuas snuggle with me because they are such cold natured little things.. hubby for some reason was getting upset over having his ear lobe licked in the middle of the night by a dog.
My mom came to visit.. when she saw my new bedroom she thought that we used one bed and let guest use the other..lol..no I'm not that crazy yet.
I think it makes sense. I talk too much in my sleep and he moves too much. We might need separate rooms. Half the time I end up on the couch anyway.
I can't sleep with the dogs either. Most of mine have short faces so they snore very loudly. Heck, most of them snore when they are awake. I can't sleep through that.
Quote from: Pen on February 05, 2011, 09:54:54 AM
DH & I totally backed off even before the wedding although we were still helping DS financially and were willing to pay for the groom's side wedding expenses (more lavish than we would have budgeted for, but we did it anyway.) We've given no advice, have never dropped in, rarely call or text, do not put DIL or her FOO down to DS, do not expect holiday visits, etc. There is no reason for our DIL to hate us but she does, and since she's in charge of their social calendar we get the the leftovers if anything while her FOO sees them daily and for every holiday and celebration.
Picture yourself raising your child lovingly and responsibly; taking them around to their various activities, cheering them on; making sure they are healthy and safe; paying for college; enjoying them as adults, having great discussions, proud of their accomplishments; having an easy, friendly and fun time when you see them - and suddenly nothing. It hurts, it's confusing and it is unnecessary.
Uncanny. Did I write that? Same story here.
Yes, Pen's posting has a heart hurting twinge of my reality in it.
Lovelyd I have not read all the replies here but I can fully understand where you are coming from.
I had a sergeant major MIL (She was a SM in the army) so I will leave the rest to your imagination.
Would she go into a friends house and take over the household?
It could be that she is trying to feel useful. One never knows what motivates people but I know that because of the problem I had with my MIL I will never do anything in one of my DIL's homes unless I am asked to.;
The one and only thing I will credit the old duck with is that she taught me to never interfere in my sons marriages. Full stop.
:-X
I loved having my own room. When I turned 9 years old, my big sister left for college and I got her room and I have loved having my own room ever since. It's a choice and has nothing to do with relationship and love...it is about being a light sleeper and also needing alone time to stay balanced.
On the subject of problem MILs and problem DILs, we come in every possible guise. When writing here, it works best not to generalize because everyone is a unique individual. When each one of us states what we are up against, then the rest of us can jump in, if we wish. Not jump on. Big difference. There is no right and no wrong. For every trend in every generation, there are exceptions. What matters is what each one of us is wresting with and the simpatico that arises when we find we are not alone or we find someone has tried something we didn't yet think of and it works. Sending love...
Let me be honest and say first of all I am not sure how to respond to this original post. I am not here to defend myself, or disagree with anyone. We are here to support each other and trade information that might be helpful. We all have our own points of view, which is great! I am a DIL, and a MIL. My first MIL (deceased) was one of my best friends, so I know how to get along and compromise and so did she. I have DIL's that I get along with beautifully, then I have one DIL that is a nasty little gal that can't get along with anyone really except her fOO. I have never gone to her home and tookover, and actually I have only been to their home a dozen times in as many years. She started out from before the wedding and pretty much shoved my sons entire family out of his life. He has no spine and does as she says or his life is made miserable by her. Our side of the family gets no holidays, GK birthdays, school programs, nothing...hers get all of it. When my DIL and DS have fought, I stayed out of it. If she called me for support I was kind and listened to her of course. She really only called me then to let me know how awful my DS was! I am not asked to be in their lives at any other time. If they want money, or to borrow a car for a trip, or a repair job on the house...we are sure welcome then! They have not allowed us a relationship with the grandkids except for when we provide nice Christmas and birthday gifts etc...but they come and get the loot and spend a half hour here, then off they go. Her family enjoys all holiday time. I have NEVER said a word to them about any of this because I felt it would not help anyway. I have given her no reason to treat us in this way. There are different situations in every case as you can see. I still think it is wrong to use children as pawns because one party is wanting to "teach" another party a lesson. I think DIL's as well as MIL's COULD try to be more fair and try to get along and stop trying to "trump" the other person. Sometimes there are just people that you absolutely cannot reason with in life. Families that try to keep some relatives totally out of the family for no reason anger me. If there is abuse or nasty issues involved, It is understandable, but a lot of times it is just done out of meaness or just for no reason at all. I agree some need to read a LOT of posts here to get a sample of different issues involving DIL's and MIL's to see that different situations happen in families. Blessings to all.
Very well put, J. Thanks. Sending love...
Jane F. I'm sorry you don't get to see your son, gk, or get holidays. When I've seen MILs write these things, I guess my question is have you ever asked your DIL why you or your family is not wanted in their lives? Maybe you don't think you did anything wrong (you may not have) but if you ask her you might be surprised at what she has to say. Also, I don't understand why a son (no matter how in love he is) would just cut himself of from his family. Maybe he has his reasons too, maybe they go beyond his wife.
Children are not pawns. I do think its natural (for me anyway) to not want my babies around someone who has been cruel to me and caused me nothing but stress. I think it also depends on the kind of relationship the child already has with that person. My MIL comes for a visit once a year, that's all shes going to get too. At least for now. When she had her kids she held the cards, as far as who she allowed them to go around. Now the ball is in my court... Like every mom I love my kids and hope I make the right decisions for them.
Unlike you I've never been a MIL (my oldest is only 3) so of course our perspectives are differnet. Lets have this conversation again in 20 yrs. By then, I'm sure I'll be on the side of the MILs, lol.
The whole point of this site is to not take "sides." Not easy but we are trying to see that people are people and they come in every variation imaginable. Their role isn't so much the issue as their perspective and presentation. Sending love...
Welcome lovelyd. I appreciate your perspectives of your situation, and I am very sorry that you have a MIL that is difficult. You will be amazed at how many people on here have someone difficult in their lives that they are trying to have a relationship with.
I know you can't understand how a Son would just cut his family off, because I couldn't conceive it either, until it happened to me. As for the ball being in a Mom's court, you are right on that too. I had a terrible MIL but yet never denied her access to my Sons. And yes, she was cruel to me, but not my kids. She spoiled them rotten and loves them. We just couldn't get along.
I hate spinach, but my husband loves it. So I make it for him, every once in a while because he loves it. I don't deny him spinach just because I don't like it.....I just don't have to eat it. :D
You will find that the MILs on here are just as offended at how the DILS are treated on here by their MILs as we are about being treated badly by our DILs. You will also find that the MILs on here will tell another MIL if they are being difficult. There is that kind of mutual respect between us.
I truly think you were offering your perspective in hopes to share some insight and I hope you will continue to do so, because I learn from both MILs and DILs on here.
Yes, mutual respect is what keeps us going. Well put, P.
Quote from: lovelyd on February 04, 2011, 06:57:48 PM
PS
Even my DH (her son) gets tired of her and tells me that he doesn't want her to stay over for more than two weeks. You KNOW somethings wrong when even the son is tired of being around his own mom. Because trust me he loves her as much as any son could love a mom but has confessed to be that he wishes she would get her own life. HIS WORDS PEOPLE.
You've said in postings that she is allowed this one visit.. one time a year, this is the limit you set for her. So you make this one very long visit (to long possibly) and now everyone including her is most likely upset with the situation.
Your dh wishes that his mother would get her own life.. well if she is visiting no more then once a year... I'd say that she has a life outside of yours. I just picture this dread.. oh God, his mother is going to have to visit 9 months from now, oh wow she's going to be here in less then 6 months from now.. darn the time is close, how will I put up with her for 2 full weeks.. how will I make it through her visit.. I simply don't want to share any of my life with her. Of course your dh/ds is saying this because he has to live with this constant pressure from both sides. I get the feeling that you probably harp on him about his mom on a pretty regular basis.
I think you are setting up the visit to fail.. it's already failed in your mind, and I think you are going out of your way to make sure it fails.
Your mil coming in and futzing around the kitchen is not a show of superiority, there is probably no need to get your hackles up and jump into total defense mode. Maybe she is simply trying to help.. she's not sitting her butt at the table watching you run yourself ragged to wait on her.. oh wait you're not at the table you're at the mall.. so now how does she try not to be a burden???? She futzes around the kitchen more.. maybe she think you'll appreciate her trying to blend with your family instead of being treated by you as an unwelcomed visitor.
Chances are there is nothing this woman can do in your mind that is not negative, as you seem to be displaying that through your postings. You want mil to change, change the way you are looking at the situation first. Do yourself a favor and take the MIL title away.. this is a person first, one who has a vested interest in your family, the same as your parents, your brothers and sisters do. You say that you want to do what is best for your children, then start looking at it less as a need to throw up a wall, but instead how to make this situation work for everyone.. that is how kids learn.. anyone can throw up the wall and refuse to budge..that's the easy way out.
Beloved Laurie...please add In My Humble Opinion...
Quote from: luise.volta on February 06, 2011, 12:08:56 PM
Beloved Laurie...please add In My Humble Opinion...
Yes it is 100% IMHO that I think you are setting your husbands mother up. No other person on this board seems to have read that into your postings. This is my opinion and my opinion alone. I have not been forced or encouraged to state by view by any other member of this forum, I speak solely for myself.
Did that take care of it Luise? :)
No Laurie, I didn't read that into her OP. I read where she has some MIL issues, but also admitted that she does some things on purpose because she is frustrated. Haven't we all?
Great job, Laurie! Thanks! ;)
Quote from: Pooh on February 06, 2011, 12:18:38 PM
No Laurie, I didn't read that into her OP. I read where she has some MIL issues, but also admitted that she does some things on purpose because she is frustrated. Haven't we all?
That is what I got out of her #'s 2,3, and 4
This is also why I put the disclaimer in.. it's how I heard it being posted.. maybe you didn't
Lol...guess I didn't.
I still think that a 1 week/2 x a year would be more manageable than a 2 week/1 x a year deal.
2 weeks has never worked for me unless it just wasn't at my house the entire time (like we hit the beach, came home for a few days, then hit the mountains, etc.).
I think that if you can change this, you might feel more comfortable around your MIL. It may not be her you're uncomfortable around, it could just be houseguests. That's how I get.
If your MIL came into your house started taking over, and then you set the boundaries...isn't that okay? Isn't it over with then as long as she respects your boundaries?
I'm a firm believer in trying to work things out between people... throwing up that brick wall is seldom the required solution. Many here have finally been forced into stepping back but there is still a open willingness to make amends if the change presents itself.
Something struck me awfully wrong when she said that she takes her child and runs for the mall if MIL is coming over.. I don't see where that is going to help this situation in any way possible. To me at that point the only thing she is teaching her child is... run from grandma. Now if grandma is a pedophile, or offering the poison apples, then yes you must protect your child....but I don't think that is the case here.
Something else I don't understand .. at one point she is allowed to stay up to 2 weeks, yet this dil, has picked her up for lunch on occasion. Why would anyone within lunch closeness need to stay at the house for 2 weeks.
If the OP really was interested in having a relationship with mil, I would think that she'd be here asking.. Is there a different approach I can try...is there something I can say.. do you think if I trying it this way? But I kinda get the feeling that she isn't really interested in that relationship.. I could be wrong.
Once again I would like to state that this is 100% IMHO.
Hi Laurie,
To respond about the two week long visits. I didn't mention that she would actually like to have a 3 month visist! I'm not comfortable with that (of course) so I thought two weeks would be a nice compromise. I'd be okay with her just taking three days actually. Oh, and part about my husband telling her to get a life. I left out that he told her that after she told him that she wanted to move in with us!!!!!! I'm not setting her up for failure, shes setting herself up.
As far as "helping out" in the kitchen. I've insisted many times that I like to cook alone, she still comes in behind me to "help". And yes, the mall does call my name when she comes to town. Its either go to the mall or sit with a person I'm not comfortable with, not exactly a hard decision.
I notice that you didn't respond to any of the comments I made about how I TRIED for THREE YEARS to please her & befreind her. You only responded to my comments about me & DHs actions... If someone doesn't want to be tried like a MIL then they should't act like one...
Quote from: lovelyd on February 06, 2011, 12:42:52 PM
... If someone doesn't want to be tried like a MIL then they should't act like one...
I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you will have to explain that line to me because it sounds like you did just lump all MILs into one category.
Laurie,
Also, please go back and read my comment posted #10, I think. I did say some nice things about my MIL and letting her see the kids, perhaps you missed that.
When my MIL comes to visit she comes from of state (about two hrs away) I'd like to start thinking of away she can see GKs without her actually having to stay with us longer than two weeks (as you say thats a set up for failure). None of us can afford a hotel so that option is out. If you can think of anything else, I'm all ears... seriously:)
Could you explain what you meant by "If someone doesn't want to be tried like a MIL then they should't act like one..." I honestly don't get it.
I didn't either, that's why I asked too.
Sure Pooh,
Laurie said that I should treat my MIL as a person not a MIL, or something to that affect. Sorry I don't know how to use the quote thing yet.
Anywho, what I meant is if my MIL wants to be treated with respect she shouldn't act like the stereotypical MIL. Picture the MIL from the sitcom "Everybody Love Raymond". My MIL really does fit that stereotype. Not all of them do, but mine does. Pls let me know your thoughts on that? How do you handle a MIL like that in real life.
PS
If you don't watch "Everybody Loves Raymond", perhaps you've seen the movie "Monster-in-Law with Jane Fonda & Jennifer Lopez. My MIL is like that one too.
Quote from: lovelyd on February 06, 2011, 12:42:52 PM
If someone doesn't want to be tried like a MIL then they should't act like one...
This is my point all together.. I feel that you are not here to try and salvage your relationship, instead your original posting was to kinda inform us of how a DIL sees life. I also feel that the wall that I spoke of comes through clearly when you go on to make a statement like the one above. I feel (once again IMHO) that you have this preconceived notion of what a MIL is.. it's black or white.. and I see it being a bad thing in your mind.
Yes I did get where you tried to get along with your mil, for 3 long years...but once again instead of coming here and trying to see if there was a pathway left uncovered you instead came here to explain why this just isn't going to work.
I think you should put her on a raft and push her out into shark infested waters....(just for a little while until she gets it.)
That's where I think people get in trouble, by stereo-typing anyone. I have never, even with all the issues with my own personal DIL, said "Don't act like a DIL", because that is just plain wrong. There are many, many wonderful DILs out there that don't deserve to be stereo-typed.
I think if you really want to figure out how to heal the relationship, you are going to have to start seeing her as a person, not a title and go from there. Just as you want to be seen and respected as a person.
I do think that people come here sometimes so fed up that they don't have an open mind and just want to to vent and be heard, rationalize their position and be right. But/and often, what others say seeps through. It can go from "yeah, but" to "Oh, I see."
I was the first to jump on this girl when she came here loaded for bear and spoke in generalities...and with others, I asked for specifics. I also know at the same age in the same circumstances, I would have been totally overwhelmed.
When you get a chance, read my story about my MIL under Success Stories. She helped "bring me up" because I wasn't wife-material when I married her son. I think it can be equally true that some are not initially MIL material.
That is what I was seeing too. That she has a bad relationship with her MIL, that she has been trying for 3 years, that she admitting the things she has done wrong too. I also took some of her list differently than others might have. I was totally guilty of hiding in other rooms with my Ex-MIL at family things. I would see where she was and head for another group, just to avoid controversary. I also saw myself in the post on what DH was telling her. My ex-DH complained about his Mother to me all the time. But when it came down to it, he still loved her so I did what I could to get along and attend events and holidays.
When someone comes in and says "Oh and I am guilty of this" right off the bat, instead of just saying, "They did this, they did that..." I feel better about waiting on additional posts.
Laurie,
You didn't respond to some very important points I made about the following. 1) why she stays for two weeks 2) how its me not her who's setting herself up for failure 3) how I could allow her to see the GK without having to stay with her longer than three weeks 4) the reason why my husband told her to get a life. 5) her "helping out" in the kitchen with I've asked her not too. Also, I mentioned before that I came her to give my prospective as to why DILs get so defensive (or at least me) some MILs don't seem to understand it. PLEASE give your opinion on those comments...
Luise
I would, but I'm afford she would scare the sharks away... LOL, I KID, I KID. I would never want to do that.
Pooh,
We shouldn't stereotype but how many of us don't. The truth is some people really do fit the stereotypes. I could care less about her "title" its her actions that offend me.
sorry for all the typos. I'm trying to respond to everyone quickly before I have to leave the computer. Anyway, just do the best you can to understand my post and respond. Thanks
It's only the truth if you agree with it and allow yourself to do it. I saw five doctors before I got a good diagnosis and one that cared. I didn't say "All Docs are quacks." I had a bad boss one time, but I didn't say, "All boss's are jerks." I have a friend who's kids are terrible, but I don't say "All kids are brats." I had a terrible first husband, but I don't say "All men are stupid."
I take each person on merit and go from there. So I guess I will just answer with, I don't.
Pooh, thanks for seeing that I was admitting that I haven't reacted in the best light. That's something I'm going to have to work on. And thanks for seeing the the bad behavior has been on both ends.
Laurie, thanks for your suggested readings. I don't think you jumped on me, you had the right to respond to what I said if I offended you. I did generalize, so you were right about that. I feel sorry for all the MIL who really are loving to their DIL but its the DIL that are the monsters.
At any rate, I wasn't exactly expecting the MIL to fall in love with me when I submitted this post. So, I'm not complaining...
And if you had decided that about all husbands, you wouldn't have the prince you have! As in PRINCE!
Amen! And I would have missed out!
"...but its the DIL that are the monsters." Huh? ???
Yup, Pooh, we can generalize ourselves right off the planet.
Did you know MIL was horrid before you agreed to marry her DS?
When I said yes, I knew I was marrying into a FOO that would be accepting of me. I actually thought about it before saying yes.
Quote from: lovelyd on February 06, 2011, 01:26:03 PM
Laurie,
You didn't respond to some very important points I made about the following. 1) why she stays for two weeks 2) how its me not her who's setting herself up for failure 3) how I could allow her to see the GK without having to stay with her longer than three weeks 4) the reason why my husband told her to get a life. 5) her "helping out" in the kitchen with I've asked her not too. Also, I mentioned before that I came her to give my prospective as to why DILs get so defensive (or at least me) some MILs don't seem to understand it. PLEASE give your opinion on those comments...
Luise
I would, but I'm afford she would scare the sharks away... LOL, I KID, I KID. I would never want to do that.
Pooh,
We shouldn't stereotype but how many of us don't. The truth is some people really do fit the stereotypes. I could care less about her "title" its her actions that offend me.
#1..It's up to you to set boundaries for yourself.. if two weeks is to long (and mass major here believe it is) then you come up with shorter visits..You said that she only lives 2 hours from you (in another state) it's still only 2 hours.. why would someone who only lives 2 hours come for more then a long weekend? Have you ever thought of going to her place and spending a weekend.
#2.. You ask, how is it you who is setting the visits up for failure - because you are dreading them.. you are probably (and I'm assuming) counting down the clock until the next visit arrives.
#3.. you repeatedly said that you are only 2 hours from her.. you've picked her up for lunch.. why can you and the kids not visit for less then 3 weeks.. I haven't a clue but that doesn't compute in my mind.
#4..You want for me to tell you why your husband told her to "get a life".. how would I know I wasn't at your house for her two week visit. Beats me honestly.. maybe he's just rude.
#5..As far as helping out in the kitchen.. do you not understand that to a lot of people this is a form of bonding.. your husband never helps you out? (hmmm maybe not since I guess he has a life).. you don't let your little girl help you out in the kitchen? When she does don't you consider that a pleasurable experience. If the woman is there for 2 weeks because of whatever reason, maybe she wants to help, instead of sitting there bored. Why not say hey I'll cook tonight and tomorrow night the kitchen is all yours. I don't know would that effect your Queen Bee status?
Yes we/I noticed that you came here to enlighten us on why DIL's get so defensive. What you didn't see is that we interact quite freely with the dil's on the board and greatly value their input.. but that could be because we are talking together as women first and foremost.
Quoteauthor Lovelyd
If someone doesn't want to be tried like a MIL then they should't act like one...
I think this was the most enlightening telling thing that you said concerning your relationship and why it is what it is.. maybe I'll make that my new signature.
Many many eons ago, I was in love with a med student. That's actually why I became a nurse...because I thought I would be a more understanding wife. We lived in different states, so it was a while before I met his mother. When he took me home, she marched into the room, put her hands on her hips, glared at me and said..."Well, I don't think we need to be introduced, do, we?"
I broke it off immediately.
Pen,
My MIL certainly isn't horrid, but my relationship with DH developed very far away from her. We were engaged as I was meeting her. I'm not sure that I would've had the time to consider that; I'm also not sure if I ever thought we'd have such a level of uncomfort with one another when she really wasn't around for my courtship.
Maybe that means I should've waited to be married, but I don't know that I had that option...I also don't know that it would have been fair to DH to wait, when I love him as I do, to figure out if she'd be accepting of me and my flaws.
I don't know that we all are given a fair opportunity to think about that, and I think you're the only one I've "met" that had the foresight to think about that. I never knew of anyone who broke off an engagement/turned down a proposal due to in-laws. However, I do know a lot of people in therapy b/c of issues with them.
Haha...Luise has proven me wrong. :P
I'd like to say I never looked back...but of course I did. It was very traumatic and I choose not to tell him why.
Me too. I think there are wonderful people out there that don't get to pick who their family is. I do think that if you watch how a family treats each other, that you get some insight maybe. If you met my brother, you would think "Oh, his parents must be materialistic and snobby" because he is, but that is far from the truth. My brother is just that way.
When Kirk's dad took me home for dinner the first time...his mother served us and ate in the kitchen. I had know the family all my life and paid no attention. :(
Laurie,
1. Laurie, I have set up boundaries for myself. My two week rule is one of them, like I said it was a compromise from her wanting to stay for 3 months. If shes mad at me for only allowing two weeks, imagine how she would feel if I only let her stay for a weekend. I don't want to drive two hrs with three children (all my children are under 3 yrs old). Two hr drive isn't exactly practical when you have children that age. Also, she lives in a small one bedroom studio. How would that work?
2. Of course I dread her visits. Its pretty hard to look forward to a visit from someone whom you don't get along with.
3. I'm not sure I know what you mean here. But when we used to live near her in DC, I would pick her up for lunch. We now live in VA, two hrs away.
4. I mentioned that my husband told her to get a life AFTER she said she wanted to move in with us. Please reread that. DH would never tell his move to get a life for nothing. He's actually not rude he's a very loving husband and son. Telling someone to get a life isn't rude if they really do need to get a life.
5. My husband is a better cook than I am. And when he cooks you can be sure he likes to be the only one in the kitchen, I respect that (and I like that). He actually used to be a chef. I don't have a daughter, what are you talking about? I guess if I did have a daughter my relationship with her would be different from the one I have with my MIL, I hope. And yes, there can only be one Queen Bee in a Bee Hive. Look it up.
Laurie I am talking as a women, its not like I'm talking as a man. I think you have so much anger that you are missing my points, over looking my comments and making wrong assumptions. I'm not sure if this anger you have is because of me or if it was already there to begin with...
Quote from: luise.volta on February 06, 2011, 01:40:57 PM
"...but its the DIL that are the monsters." Huh? ???
Luise, I said "SOME" DILs can be mosters too. I said that in response to what other MILs where saying about their relationships. Remember don't generalized. I got in trouble on here for that remember?
Oh, I didn't see the "some" there. Since I copied and pasted it...it must not have been there. Or, maybe I was copying and pasting someone else's copying and pasting and they dropped that word? Possible, I suppose.
Don't take me on, you'll never win. If you want the kind of clout I have, you need your own Web-forum....and they are very expensive!
I'm staying out of this one....I plead the fifth... ;D
Oh, Faith...if you've had a Fifth, you'd better lie down!
Luise,
Maybe you should have quoted the entire sentence. That would have helped. You only quoted that last part. I really was responding to what one of the MILs said about the relationship she has with her DIL. I was keeping an open mind in doing so. Its not like I would say DILs are monsters for nothing. So, quote the whole thing please.
Also, I don't think I'm "taking you on". I'm simply responding to your comments just like everyone is responding to mine. I think I've be doing that in a very respectful way actually. If I'm being disrespectful please let me know. I've already mentioned some of the things I've done wrong, and not afraid to do again, IF that's the case. I don't think I'm being rude, however, I do know the rule of the Killer Queen Bees. Its your Bee Hive. Now you know how I feel.
Quote from: lovelyd on February 06, 2011, 03:00:53 PM
1. Laurie, I have set up boundaries for myself. My two week rule is one of them, like I said it was a compromise from her wanting to stay for 3 months. If shes mad at me for only allowing two weeks, imagine how she would feel if I only let her stay for a weekend. I don't want to drive two hrs with three children (all my children are under 3 yrs old). Two hr drive isn't exactly practical when you have children that age. Also, she lives in a small one bedroom studio. How would that work?
Lovelyd - You set up a limitation which is fine, but not one that you thought you could live with? A compromise of I'll just hate her being here for two weeks not 3 months? To each their own Lovelyd
Lovelyd - I don't think you want to really find a compromise or anything that would give this a chance.. and that is entirely your option.. you dread her and her visits, your mind is made up.. so you really aren't looking for viable options are you Lovelyd?
Once again Lovelyd, I am speaking only for myself but what do you think you will accomplish at this site if you have your opinions set in concrete already. Did you feel that we are just floundering in mil muck and you needed to explain things to us?
Lovelyd - one of the biggest differences here is almost all of us are working on solutions, you're working on erecting the headstone. I personally had a great relationship with my own mil (yes I had one) matter of fact I introduce her as my mom, I never really thought to make her stand behind a title... so I know it can work.. maybe not for everyone but if you stop trying then yes it's done, dead....over.
And I do understand what a queen bee is and does.. but I took your suggestion and looked it up anyway.. what I didn't know until I read is that she is only different from all the other little bees because she is fed royal jelly.. did someone feed you royal jelly at some point?
Quote from: luise.volta on February 06, 2011, 03:35:56 PM
Oh, Faith...if you've had a Fifth, you'd better lie down!
That was funny
Silly again Luise....But I think I will go lay down anyways... ;D ;)
I'll take your fifth and double it... I have to go cook dinner.. how I wish someone would come over and do it for me.. I'd surrender in a heartbeat.
OK Ladies, lets all calm down and keep it Nice....Go have a Fifth and you will feel better... ;)
Oh wow, I did not marry a guy b/c of his mother. Well, I'm not sure if it is to fair to say it was strictly b/c of his mother but their relationship. And granted, I had the ring on for a total of 18 hours so I tend to forget I was even engaged to that weenie. lol
I think I talked about her before on here, she asked me about my reproductive system over dinner in front of all his family. Yikes, I'm starting to wonder if I had better common sense when I was younger.
As Tom Waits said, "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy."
IMHO:
Lovelyd can invite her MIL for long weekends 4X a year and let go of the two week thing. A two hour drive is nothing where I'm from - we have to drive two hours to get to anything worthwhile, LOL.
Lovelyd can let her MIL help in the kitchen from time to time.
Lovelyd can try to understand that she "chose" this MIL, yet her MIL didn't have a choice in the DIL she ended up with.
Lovelyd can set appropriate boundaries with kindness and appreciation for the woman who raised a great DH.
Again, just my opinion.
Wow Laurie, I really got you hot and bothered today didn't I?? I guess I could go down the list and respond to each of your comments, but frankly I don't feel like it. I've already responded to you several times. I've made my points, answered your questions, admitted my wrongs. At this point to go back and forth with someone on the internet would be a waiste of my time. Beside you said thats not what this website is for.
And yes, I used to looove jelly with my toast when I was a kid (my mom gave it to me) Very funny btw. However there is way more to being a Queen Bee than that which is why I think it's a fair comparison for many MIL/DIL relationships. But if you don't get it, then you don't get it.
No sorry you didn't get me hot and bothered, but thanks for caring.
I for the life of me do not get why someone has to be the superior, the chief, or the commander, much less the queen bee, in a relationship. But as I said if you are not looking for ways to make your relationship better for everyone then I don't see the point.
You know yourself that relationships evolve, and constantly change.. but it does sound like you've made your decision and nothing but nothing will work and ahhhh she'll always be the dreaded one.. hope you find what you're looking for on this site..
I see that I did copy a copy instead of the responding to the original post but I don't see a lot of difference. We seem to have started repeating ourselves here. Also I don't know that I have been painted as the Queen Bee or Killer Bee before. And frankly, I don't get it about the Royal Jelly. Do you mean she is just like every other bee except for that? Is that to bring me down to size? When I say "don't take me on because you aren't going to win...it's my Web-site", I am just saying back off if you want to stay. OK? I tried to cheer you up with my "shark infested waters" post and even that didn't work. It gave you a chance to tell all of us that the sharks would be no match for your MIL. Frankly, I'm weary of this. With that I am going to close this thread because I can. Faith is right, time to change the subject, take five and move on to some other posts.