My son will be married in a few months and his fiancee has been less than cordial with me; from ignoring me, turning away when I speak to her, and not making me privy to any wedding info. My son had told me early on she will never call me, never email me and will never be my friend. However, my son expects much from me in my treatment of her and for a long time I tried to make her part of our family, but to no avail. I have decided after the wedding I will leave them to their own life and graciously bow out. For one thing I doubt I would ever get to see any future grandchildren. Unfortunately, my son and I have always been close until now.
I try to love without judging or blaming but recently have found myself feeling badly about my thoughts and conversations about the young woman. This has been extremely difficult for me so how do I get through the shower and the wedding? I don't want to hurt anyone, including my future daughter in law but also do not want to be hurt.
One more thing; I have also told her she could call me Mom but my son said she wants to call me by my first name which, to me, is a sign of disrespect because of the way I was raised. Should I just have her call me Mrs. I have to sign the shower card and don't know what name to use.
Hello sjmom, I'm sorry to hear that you are having to deal with such an unfriendly FDIL. I will address the name issue and hope it helps. I lived in the south for many years and have a good friend who was always referred to by Miss "Mary". Both DILs called her that as well as the friends of her children. I was not born in the south but was impressed by the respectful nature being addressed in this manner. I work with children and that is how they address me and I love it.
Welcome S - I modified your post a little because we do not refer to our belief systems here. There are many supportive Websites out there for that.
Please go to our Home Page and read the three posts under the "Read Me First" category. We require that of all new members to be sure they fully understand what our site is all about and find it to be a fit. Thanks.
It doesn't sound like you have much to bargain with. If FDIL wants to call you by your first name, I would try to be ok with it and not see it as a sign of disrespect. She may see another perspective, like calling you Mom would be disrespectful to her own mother. I would try to swallow the bitter pill and sign the card by your first name. If you sign it Mrs. she will likely think you're being cold.
I'm just a person who has to attend a rehearsal dinner and a wedding I'm a bit nervous about. I would go to the events and behave with perfect grace and class. Smile, smile, smile. Be impeccable. Since you plan to bow out afterward, leave with your dignity intact. You will never regret that.
Now I hope I can take my own advice.
Quote from: sjmom on August 06, 2012, 03:07:20 PM
My son will be married in a few months and his fiancee has been less than cordial with me; from ignoring me, turning away when I speak to her, and not making me privy to any wedding info. My son had told me early on she will never call me, never email me and will never be my friend. However, my son expects much from me in my treatment of her and for a long time I tried to make her part of our family, but to no avail. I have decided after the wedding I will leave them to their own life and graciously bow out. For one thing I doubt I would ever get to see any future grandchildren. Unfortunately, my son and I have always been close until now.
Can you ask your son the plans? Are you helping pay? Long short if she won't email why can't ds after all he should include his family.
I try to love without judging or blaming but recently have found myself feeling badly about my thoughts and conversations about the young woman. This has been extremely difficult for me so how do I get through the shower and the wedding? I don't want to hurt anyone, including my future daughter in law but also do not want to be hurt.
Think of it as doing it for your son your their to support him and him alone. Party up have a great seeing you sad will only make her happy. Don't go over board but be cheerful.
One more thing; I have also told her she could call me Mom but my son said she wants to call me by my first name which, to me, is a sign of disrespect because of the way I was raised. Should I just have her call me Mrs. I have to sign the shower card and don't know what name to use.
. Can you really force someone to address you as Mrs?
I know for me I would look at you and say I am not 5 but thanks. Actually my ILs tried to pull that one on me. I didn't feel comfortable calling them mom and dad. They dont like me calling them by their first name I just don't use their name pretty much ever. Limits the convo sometimes but I refused to be treated like a child and they get upset when I say it. Just makes life more uncomfortable. Even as a child I never addressed family friends as Mrs. The only people I address that way(as an adult) is my child's teacher to not confuse her. She calls all adult no family members by their first name. Respect can be shown in different ways.
My take is I think when extended families start to sort things out...we all have to get that we may define things differently. My concept of respect, for instance, is that it is something earned...not a given. I am 85...so that may be part of it. I think each person has the right to live by their own standards, not by mine. Conversely, I claim the same right. Years ago that caused a rift in my family because my eldest son and his wife expected me to meet and live by their standards. That was a deal breaker for me. These things are never easy to address from my perspective. For instance, the shower and the wedding are both about them, not you. I would suggest you do your best to reflect that and fade into the woodwork. Simple but not easy. Sending love...
Sjmom, welcome. I'm sorry you're going through this, but I'm glad you found us. As you can see you're not alone. I know you'll find comfort & support here.
IMO if a DIL asks to be called by a certain name or title, MILs should do their best to accomodate. Same w/what a MIL wants to be called. Fair's fair, goose/gander, and all that. However, I agree that it's not a hill to die on.
DivaGirlDil, in a perfect world it would all be so simple. DS could email or call, DS would be able to include his FOO, etc. It doesn't always work out that way. My DS was up against his demanding FDW & her formidable FOO. He, and we, didn't stand a chance. It made his life so much easier for us to let it all go. Sad, huh?
So if DIL tells you to call her Mrs. Yoursand her last name you will do it? Not trying to be rude but I know my mil wouldn't yet she expects me too.
My MIL wanted to be called Mom initially when we got married (and this was when we still had a good relationship). I was never comfortable with it, and personally found it disrespectful to my own mom. Most of the time I just never address her by name, and put her first name on presents. She signs cards a variety of ways - Mom, Mom LastName, FirstName, or Mrs LastName - so I just settled on using her first name. It's easier now since I usually just sign my son's name and address gifts to her grandmother name. It seems strange to me to address someone who's part of my family as Mrs. Maybe that's my age and the fact that I was raised in a family that is not the least bit formal.
I was wondering how things are with your son? Does he still call, e-mail or visit? Has he ever given a reason why she had no interest in forming a relationship with you? He seems very aware of her intentions from the get-go, where a lot of sons just look the other way and pretend it's not happening. If she has zero interest in a relationship with you, there's not much you can do about that. In my own situation (which is reversed, I'm the DIL) I find that the only thing I can do is continue to be polite and civil. I don't want to be the one who puts my husband and son in the middle. I bite my tongue a lot, but am happy with the fact that I'm trying to be the bigger person.
When my OS and DIL got married, she asked what she should call me. I told her first name was fine - but being Japanese she said that was not respectful to me. I then told her to pick out whatever she wanted to call me, even if it was a Japanese word (just not a bad one). So, she never did come up with something. I then suggested that she call me Fafe (which was what my DD wanted my GM name to be). So, that is what she calls me and I'm good with it. I do sign cards to her Mom and Dad, etc.
In your case, I would just sign your name and let it be. Maybe things will change (I know - when pigs fly), anyway I'm sending you a big hug.
Your question "how do I get through shower and wedding" sort of answers itself - you get through it. At least, that's how my DS's wedding was for me, something to get through. I considered myself a guest, no more, and smiled made, small talk and left as soon as it was appropriate which was several hours after it started. The event will carry on and people will talk and laugh and have a big ole time without any contribution necessary from you. Try to relax and sit back and smile a little. That's my advice for the wedding. I'm not sure about the shower since it's more intimate.
Also, maybe you could let go of the idea of perceiving your son's future wife as your DIL. I made that mistake and did my best to include mine in our family and respect her wishes, blah blah blah, but the intention to be part of our family was just not there for her. In a way, you could thank her for making her position so clear in the beginning - you don't have to wonder where she stands and what she thinks. She's a woman that your son is marrying and that's all.
And as far as names - I feel like you'll need to sort this one out for yourself since you have strong feelings about it. I'm so used to being called by my first name. Only 2 people called me 'Mom' and I can probably count on 2 hands the number of times someone called me "Mrs. ___".
Good luck with this and sorry you have to join our club of misfit MILs but it doesn't have to be so bad. We're here for you.
Welcome to you SJmom.. My DIL started right off the bat calling me by my first name. I would have preferred to be called mom, as I was raised to be respectful to my elders. But that's old school. I always called my MIL mom as calling her Mrs..blank... would have been silly. She was, afterall my husband's mother and since we were supposed to be "ONE" at marriage, my mother also. But again, that's old fashioned respect and tradition. I didn't ever make an issue of it. It was not a hill to die on for me.. I just took into account that she was not raised the same as many of us older women.
As for getting through the shower and wedding. You will do it graciously and with a big smile plastered on your face. I am so sorry you are getting this brush off so soon, but at least you know what the deal is. You are not being led on to believe that you were cared for or considered family. So many of us.. me included, didn't realize how much we were disliked until many many years later. I was blissfully ignorant of the fact that I was being critiqued and discussed by DIL and her FOO for 10 years before I got the memo. Needless to say, I wasn't always on guard.. You will have the luxury of being on guard and careful. It's a heads up for you that I wish I had had. I wish I could be more supportive and give you hope.. but I can't see that you have much choice in the matter. You cannot change people and it's foolish to try.
So, SJ...Did any of this help?
SJMom, I have a question for you. Could you handle a 'civil' relationship with FDIL? It sounds like she doesn't want a close relationship with you. However, you seem to be saying it's a close relationship or none at all. (i.e. she either calls you "Mom" or "Mrs SJMom")
You don't always like everyone you meet, that's just how it is. You can be "acquaintances", greet each other politely, make small-talk, and then move on to talking to your DS. You'll probably have to work a bit harder to maintain the relationship with your son, but it's do-able.
As for the "Mrs" thing - when you're introduced to another adult, in a social setting, do you call them Mr or Mrs, until they tell you to use their first name? You, your DS and DIL are all adults, you should all be calling each other by your first names.
Maybe it's a generational thing, but to me, being "forced" to call someone by Mr/Mrs ect means that they are in a position of authority or "higher up" than I am. The only people I use the Mr/Mrs for are DD's teachers, because they DO have authority over her. I don't use titles for my boss, my IL's, my parents' friends, ect.
I have to say that one of the problems I have with my MIL is that she doesn't consider DH and I to be "grown-ups". She treats us like we're still teenagers and it's hateful and insulting. My MIL never insisted on being called "Mrs", but she never invited me to call her by her first name either. I hope that this is not how you treat your DS and FDIL, but I thought you should know where I'm coming from.
I don't see how calling your MIL "mom" or some variation indicates that she thinks she is superior or above anyone, or that she thinks of her son and DIL as children. It's just a symbol of respect and acknowlegement. DS doesn't stop calling his Mom... MOM when he grows up. I do understand how someone may feel uncomfortable using a name that was always reserved for their mother. It's the same discomfort that MIL may have being called by her first name. Still, I'd rather have my DIL use my first name than the names I'm sure she has for me in secret... lol!!
Welcome SJmom :)
I was all set to call my in laws Mom and Dad because I'm still old school where you call older adults Mr. or Mrs. Just the way I was raised and what I was comfortable with. My SILs objected to any in laws calling their parents Mom and Dad and my Parent In Laws objected to being called Mr. or Mrs.! Now that was awkward, so I tend to avoid calling them any name but when I have to -- it's Grandma and Grandpa. Awwwwwwkward! I did it out in public once with MIL and a lady told me to go give my "grandparents" something, MIL was hopping mad because the lady heard me call her Grandma (which was not a problem previously) and assumed that MIL was actually old enough to be my grandmother.
I never thought of something like that happening but I also felt that I had to honor my upbringing. But now? It's one of those things in hindsight that I wish I had just called them by their first names. Yes, it made me uncomfortable but at the end of the day I can get use to other people's ways to get along with them.
Anyway, what I am trying to say is that you have a similar choice here. Force your comfort on FDIL (and ask yourself, has this happened before? why is DS telling you point blank you're not going to be friends with FDIL? Did you ask about wedding plans expecting be included because they were your preferences?) and potentially risk more awkward situations?
For the shower you could always call in sick at the last moment. I wouldn't advise that for the wedding. For both of them, go as a guest. The bride and groom tend to be busy at these events, so your interaction with them should be minimal, anyway. I imagine other relatives and friends from your side will be there, so socialize with them. Apply the tactic "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all." Don't complain about any treatment and if someone broaches the topic for some reason, try to brush them off with some catchall phrase that doesn't put anyone in a bad light. (what that catchall phrase would be, i don't know.)
let me apologize ahead of time here, because i am a dil whose dh let her take the blame with his foo for his own actions. so i am a bit biased. you said your son told you your dil would never call, email, etc. well, it can be dicey in any situation to judge someone on the hearsay of someone else. once your son made those statements, it probalby colored how you interpreted your fdil's actions. you might not have noticed all the slights or not seen them as slights if the idea that she didn't want anything to do with you hadn't been planted in your head. the human memory is a tricky thing. the experts currently (tho in a few years it could be totally different) assert that our brains will pick and choose details to conform to our ideas and actually fill in details we don't actually remember. we're not deliberately trying to make a case against anyone or be deceptive; we honestly think we remember clearly. i read an article that said an expert on memory believed eyewitness testimony in criminal cases should be outlawed because human memory is so faulty. Anyway, my point is if you possibly can, wipe the slate clean. go forward assuming you and fdil have different styles and try to reinterpret her behavior in the best possible light that is reasonable.
i don't mean to imply your ds tried to deliberately deceive you. the miscommunication between men and women is legend. books have literally (bad pun intended) been written on the topic.
as far as what dil should call you, well 30 years ago or so, it was pretty set that dil/sil called mil/fil some variation of mom/dad or mr. and mrs smith. times have changed. i don't think you can force dil to call you mom. i sympathize with not wanting to be called by your first name. i don't let children or adults i don't know well call me by my first name. however, realize that dil is probably not being disrespectful by calling you by your first name and that's a small thing that could backfire big time if you insist on the mrs.
my dh has some longevity genes in his family, so i met all his grandparents. the first time i met his paternal sets, we were all visiting dh's parents. so gfil comes to the breakfast table and introduces himself with his first name only. i always referred to those grandparents by their first names. i would get a chuckle when my mil's sisters would refer to my mil's ILs by Mr. and Mrs. there were a few decades in between those introductions. (I always called his other gp's grandma and grandpa).
good luck!
Quote from: DivaGirlDIL on August 07, 2012, 05:23:27 AM
So if DIL tells you to call her Mrs. Yoursand her last name you will do it? Not trying to be rude but I know my mil wouldn't yet she expects me too.
I would absolutely call her whatever she wanted. Mrs. Pen'sSurname, Bozo the Clown, Your Royal Highness, Honey Boo Boo...it's all good.
Quote from: herbalescapes on August 07, 2012, 10:46:29 AM
For the shower you could always call in sick at the last moment.
If you do this, make sure it's believable. My IL's "called in sick" for my wedding shower, but their excuse was that MIL had pneumonia. But she only had it for that weekend, wasn't sick beforehand, and recovered immediately. It's been 14 years and I remember it as being a very sketchy excuse.
I have every intention of being at the shower with the guests I have invited; would not miss either the shower or wedding. This is the most important day in the couple's life. I am not a nasty person; rather confused and ignorant of today's customs (married 32 years) and have made my share of mistakes but I love my son and only want the best for him.
SJ - Good for you. That sounds so positive! Did you get anything here that felt helpful or supportive?
Much good feedback and now I don't feel so alone. I would have never thought it would turn out this way but I will live with it and adjust. Still don't know about the "name" though. Maybe I will get used to her calling me by my first name but only time will tell. Right now just want to get the shower and wedding done because I have 3 months to find a dress and I haven't even begun to shop or know what I want. A project in and of itself. LOL
Great! You have a cyber-family here. "Alone" is no longer the operative word. Sending love..-
I'm old school too and I always call anyone by Miss/Mr./Mrs. until they say, "Please call me "First Name"". If my DIL had said, "Mrs." right off the bat, I would have followed that with "call me 'First Name'". Neither one had nothing to do with me thinking DIL was a child. Both my Sons friends, even when they were 18 until now, call me Mrs. XXXX. It would have felt awkward to me to have them call me my first name. Still had nothing to do with me thinking they were children.
On the flip side, I would never expect DIL or FDIL to call me "Mom". IMO, that should be reserved for their Mother, unless they choose to do it. FDIL calls me my first name now, because when she said "Mrs. XXXX" I followed with the "Please, call me XXXXX." If she had told me that made her feel weird, then I would have said, "Oh, well then Mrs. is fine or Mimi. Or what are you comfortable with?"
To me that is no big deal. The big deal to me is the assumption that when someone does have a preference to "Mrs." that it's anything other than maybe how they were raised. I also find humor in that so many things seem to only apply one direction.
Since my own MIL had passed away and I did not get to know her and my SIL and the other women I know call MIL "MOM" I did not think it odd to ask this. Nor did I feel it unreasonable to expect some title of respect. Raised like you I have given people their due unless told otherwise, but since FDIL does not communicate with me I have had to go through MS to find out. I have signed everything but Mrs., including my first name or Mom on a Christmas and birthday card. If she does not want to call me Mom then I hope the two of us can agree on something we are both comfortable with.
And I think that's the way to handle it. I can give up my old school tradition if something is not comfortable, but I also expect compromise on the other end.
I'd consider letting the title/name thing go and just let her choose whatever is comfortable. Respect isn't automatic, its something earned over time, and it means different things to different people. Treating you rudely for no reason is not ok - but calling you by your name, that's common place now.
I had a very good relationship with my MIL throughout my wedding planning. RIGHT until she freaked out because I was addressing envelopes 'wrong' (not using the right titles). I wouldn't fold and finally had to hang up on her because she was calling me to screetch about this while I was at work. I stopped talking to her completely for the rest of wedding planning. A shame! all because she chose titles as a hill to die on.. I was willing to compromise a bit even though I strongly disagreed with her but it was her way or we were wrong/rude/disrespectful etc etc. In the end she lost out. Her choice.
My Ex-MIL used to address all the birthday/holiday cards to my Sons "Master (First Name) (Last Name)". I thought that very odd but I figured it was just how she was.
My DIL called me Mom from day one. She was always sweet to me and we got along great. I was invited to go along when she chose her wedding dress. We went out to lunch to try the food at the restaurant she chose for the rehearsal dinner. I had a great time at the shower. Everything was perfect or so I thought! After 5 years of marriage DH and I are banned from their life. Go figure! Seems like the more time that goes by with us respecting their choice to have nothing to do with us the angrier they get. I can't even keep quiet correctly!
Quote from: Grammie on August 08, 2012, 11:31:17 AM
My DIL called me Mom from day one. She was always sweet to me and we got along great. I was invited to go along when she chose her wedding dress. We went out to lunch to try the food at the restaurant she chose for the rehearsal dinner. I had a great time at the shower. Everything was perfect or so I thought! After 5 years of marriage DH and I are banned from their life. Go figure! Seems like the more time that goes by with us respecting their choice to have nothing to do with us the angrier they get. I can't even keep quiet correctly!
Me neither. My DIL told me that she was waiting for me to BEG to see the kids. I was hoping she would be holding her breath while she waited... lol!!
Quote from: Lillycache on August 08, 2012, 11:55:56 AM
Quote from: Grammie on August 08, 2012, 11:31:17 AM
My DIL called me Mom from day one. She was always sweet to me and we got along great. I was invited to go along when she chose her wedding dress. We went out to lunch to try the food at the restaurant she chose for the rehearsal dinner. I had a great time at the shower. Everything was perfect or so I thought! After 5 years of marriage DH and I are banned from their life. Go figure! Seems like the more time that goes by with us respecting their choice to have nothing to do with us the angrier they get. I can't even keep quiet correctly!
Me neither. My DIL told me that she was waiting for me to BEG to see the kids. I was hoping she would be holding her breath while she waited... lol!!
Ha ha ha!
Quote from: Grammie on August 08, 2012, 11:31:17 AM
My DIL called me Mom from day one. I was invited to go along when she chose her wedding dress.
Oh, Grammie - I went along
bought the wedding dress! And I'm in a similar situation today, too. Thank the Gods that I she didn't want my mom's ring....
Doe, just the thought scares me. I am so glad you held onto that ring!
I offered mine a $8,000 bedroom set (which she took), a second bedroom set (nothing fancy), a washer and dryer (which she took), a living room and dining room set complete with china cabinet. Then she went off in a tizzy because I wouldn't let her have my cherished grandparents antique bedroom set that was the only thing I wanted to keep out of my entire house.
Ooooohhh.....my bad!
Pooh..... No good deed goes unpunished! So sorry. She sounds like a peach! And what attracted our DSs to such delightful ladies?
P - Boy, there's no denying it. You are really hard to get along with!
I know I am Luise...I'm working on it. ;D Actually, I think I am probably harder to get along with now than I was then because I just don't give a flying flip what she does now.
Grammie, I could tell you what I think it is...but I would get banned! ;D
Quote from: Pooh on August 09, 2012, 11:50:05 AM
I offered mine a $8,000 bedroom set (which she took), a second bedroom set (nothing fancy), a washer and dryer (which she took), a living room and dining room set complete with china cabinet. Then she went off in a tizzy because I wouldn't let her have my cherished grandparents antique bedroom set that was the only thing I wanted to keep out of my entire house.
Ooooohhh.....my bad!
Yikes! I think most of us here were hatched by the same goose. Did she even leave you the broom to sweep up with, Pooh?
Well actually I didn't offer her the broom so that's probably a point of contention too. ???
You must have nice stuff. My DIL wouldn't want anything of mine, I'm sure :D
pooh, i'll solve your problem. send ME your grandparent's bdrm set then you won't have to deal with it.
Y'all can have ALL my stuff because I'M LEAVING!!!
Quote from: herbalescapes on August 19, 2012, 12:15:03 PM
pooh, i'll solve your problem. send ME your grandparent's bdrm set then you won't have to deal with it.
;D
Pen: Love this quote of yours!
You must have nice stuff. My DIL wouldn't want anything of mine, I'm sure :D
My DIL would never stoop so low as to have any of my stuff either!! >:(
Isn't that sad? When I got my first place, if it wasn't for my Mother's, Brothers and thrift store hand-me-downs, I wouldn't have had anything. My first coffee table was one of those telephone company's big round wooden spools that held the wire! And my couch? It was five, yard sale pillows up against the wall! Ha ha ha...
Oh, the good ol' days. India-print bedspread or beaded room divider, anyone?
Pen: I have that NOW! Tee hee. Seriously, I just put up some fabulous India coverlets to screen off a space in my basement and seriously I do have some funky ring things on my tiny office closet instead of a door. Too funny!!
And yes, our family has always handed down. I still do that for DD and GK. But my DS and DIL? Nah. DIL is an art teacher so their place is really lovely. How she keeps a white couch perfect with little kids around is beyond me!!
Oh yeah....pink beaded curtain between the living room and my bedroom. I didn't have the India spread...I was all about the fake fur!
I have the same question, the rehearsal dinner is tonight wedding tomorrow. I am so worried and nervous,
please tell me what you learned and how you did?
Just curious - do your friends call you Mrs. so and so because certainly they do not call you mom.
It just seems really unfair, in my opinion, to have her call you Mrs......
And she's not comfortable calling you mom. I would have liked if my mil had asked me to call her mom (not sure that I could but it would have been nice to think of her as a second mom).
Over the years I started to refer to her as the name the grandkids call her. But if it was a one on one with me and I was addressing her, I'd call her by her first name.
As for the shower/ wedding... I agree that you should do your best to just smile and enjoy it and know that this is the mature thing to do.
It sounds like there are some other things going on - especially since your son said what he said up front of her not being your friend. Would you be able to elaborate?
I like the concept of enjoying being asked...even if we decline. :) I just got asked to Thanksgiving dinner three different places by those near and dear. I'm 86 years old and find large gathering tire me out. However, being asked brings joy to my heart. My ex-DIL is coming to my retirement center instead, to have dinner here with me...and is having her clan over the next day so she can do that. My cup runneth over!
Frances, I'm sorry I haven't been here for a few days and missed reading your post. I hope all went well at the rehearsal and the wedding.
It went real well, I was surprised all the x's got a long and DS told me that there was going to be drinking at both the rehearsal and wedding and he was worried about my DH disapproval about drinking. So DH and I went to the rehearsal only stayed about 1hr DS waited to drink until after we left. The wedding was perfect and again DS waited to drink after we left, I thought that was neat. I am so glad it is over, STRESS.
So happy for you Frances that all went smoothly.
Three cheers for DS! :)
That was a great compromise! Glad it went well.