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Hi I am a DIL who posts here for insight and support with my MIL.  I read more than I post.  I find reading here helps keep my perspective balanced, so it's not just my point of view I consider.  Considering how my DH's and my actions, can have an equal and opposite reaction on MIL, gives us deeper understanding, and helps us both navigate communicating with her.  Thank you all for your help, past and present.

I saw the phrase "back seat" used here, and it has made me think, because it's a phrase my MIL uses a lot.  (No, I don't think it's my MIL who posts here).  I do not like the idea of MIL feeling she's in the "back seat" of anything.  But at the risk of beating a metaphor, I was hoping for help to explore that feeling, with the goal of finding out if there's a way to avoid MIL feeling that way, without letting her take the wheel, or the "co-pilot" seat next to my husband.

The idiom "taking a back seat" is defined on freedictionary.com as "to let other people take a more active and responsible part in an organization or a situation."

One of the reasons my DH pulled back from her, is because of her wanting to involve herself in decisions we made, and getting very upset when her input wasn't acted upon.  We listened to her ideas, and discussed them with her sometimes.   
Whether it was our wedding, house hunting, budgeting, vacation planning, job searches, graduate school, it was and is all things we want to do as a couple, to plan, to affect how the rest of our lives go.  We ended up sharing less planning with her, because it seemed a way to upset her less, if it turned out we didn't do as she suggested.  Then she felt left out.  A catch-22?

I'm not sure how she could have been in the front seat with us, for most of these? Or does she expect me to take a back seat, because her wisdom and experience supercedes mine?  If I'm honest, I guess ideally I pictured her driving her own car.  Or enjoying the ride with us, if she wants to come along. My own parents drive their own car, or seem content to ride in the proverbial "back seat" for things we plan for ourselves.  I don't know if that's unfair to compare, because my parents are married to each other.  She may have felt for so long that she and DH were "up front" that the role of "back seat" is me taking what was hers.  I'm not sure and I try not to assume or judge.

Please know I am not referring specifically to the member here who used that phrase, not at all, which at this time I don't even recall who it was.   I do not want to offend.  It's the familiar phrase and the feeling around it, itself.   This is about my feelings that come up, when my MIL uses that phrase, and wanting to understand hers.  I am struggling with the idea of it being "selfish" for us to drive our own car.  Any insight to help me gain compassion or understanding is greatly appreciated.  Thank you.

S - Nice to hear from you. It might be useful to find out how others view the "back seat" concept. I may get clobbered for this, but I think that 's where the MIL belongs. In her own home, she has the place of honor.  In the DILs home, the DIL occupies that place and the MIL needs to get that. It doesn't have to be a negative experience. It's only an issue if the MILis tries to create and/or maintain supremacy. The truth is she's a outsider to the marriage. How could it be otherwise?

In some cultures where there is a communal home occupied by several generations, the MIL may rule supreme until her life is over. Then the eldest DIL steps up to the plate and it starts all over again. But most of us live independently, in our society. Thus, we are quite naturally in the "back seat" in another woman's home and she is in the "back seat" in ours.

From reading hundreds of posts here, it's clear that's OK with us. We just want to be in the car. The "back seat" is fine. What we often face, however, is having no "seat" and being  kicked to the curb.

Conversely, the much maligned MIL wants to run everyone and everything. What's wrong with that picture? In our culture, where we have separate residences, how would that work? Who would sit on who's lap up in front? 

Either end of the pendulum throws it (life) off balance.

Sassy, I think it is just a phrase for acknowledging that you are his primary partner.  I would not read a lot into it.  Mothers all "let go" of their sons when they marry.  I think that most mothers just want to maintain a warm relationship and continue to feel that their son's care and love for them as they start and maintain their own families.  We have put at least 18 years of devotion in their upbringinng and I think that deserves respect and consideration.  The relationship of a mother/son can not be compared to the wife/husband relationship.  Totally different with totally different types of love-both very strong and to be repected and honored.  Also family values and ethical structures can differ so very much.  Things assumed by one family may be totally foreighn to another - a lot to sort through - not right or wrong - just different and to be respected.  I think blending takes time and attention.  Also, as mothers grow older, they wonder who will be there for them as they age and maybe physically fail.  If the DIL acts distant and uncaring, the MIL feels that she is doomed to grow old and spend her last days alone.  It is hard for young women to think this far into the future, however MIL are in a later phase and values have changed since they were your age.  Not wrong or right just naturally different.  Have you ever really tried to put yourself in her shoes?

I just want a relationship with my son and his wife and any grandchildren they may have. Just because he is now married does not mean I don't love him anymore. Why is there a need to control me, give me rules? We are adults and should be able to work problems out...without confrontation. Treat me with respect...the same way you want me to treat you.

Back seat is fine with me...

Sassy,you sound like such a sweet heart!!!! I would give any thing to have a DIL like you,to care enough to try to understand your MIL and find something workable for the both of you.
I don't feel like i have taken the back seat,i have been put in the trunk,and forgotten about.I have told my son,i don't try to run your life,or tell you how to raise your kids,he said,oh you never do that!!! I said no i don't,all i want is to be part of your life.I don't expect to me #1or#2 in your life,but i do expect to be more than #12 or #13.

Every thing is with,for,and about DIL's family.I live 6 hours away,so i don't get to see them as often as i would like.When i do go visit,my DIL has made plans with her family.I have to always drive the 6 hrs on the holidays,and never get any quality time,or family time for us.I would like to be treated fairly,with some of the holidays being just our family.
I always hear,Mom,she wants to go see her sister,Mom,she wants to go see her Aunt,Mom,she wants to go see her Grandma,Mom,she wants to go see her cousin,Mom,she wants to go see one of the other sisters........they all live,with in 20mins of each other.And get together all the time.

My DIL's mother,i think,is overly involved in all her 5 girls lives,they have to run every thing they do by her,she seems to have a big say in every thing they do.I have heard this from a couple of the family members.

I give advice,if asked,other wise i have faith that they can make a  good and wise decision.

If this is the only thing that bothers your MIL,that she wants to know about all of your decisions,i think you can work thru this fairly easy.I just don't know what,or how you can handle it, at the moment.

I'm sure your going to get a lot more input from some of the other ladies on here.
I will keep thinking on it though.

Good luck,

To me, it simply means being a part of their lives and not being put aside, in the back seat viewing while everyone else is put before us.

That is exactly what I meant, Chicki. Yes, it was me. I use quite a bit of metaphors  ;). Maybe, it is an old thing? No, I am not offended.

First, I'd like to thank you for trying to improve your relationship with your MIL. That is the most endearing gesture we could ask for. It is all about the "effort." It means a lot.

"Back seat" isn't about driving, although I did add a few more metaphors after I got started- ;). It isn't the worst position to be in either. But it isn't the only one or shouldn't be--without confusing you more. I think most rational MILs would just like to be included in their son and GCs lives. It is pretty simple. We don't need a lot of fanfare or a big parade. It doesn't need to be every single day. There is something about getting older, that makes a person really know the emotional value of life.

"Back seat" doesn't refer to a MIL trying to dominate her adult son & wife's life. I think that is equally wrong. I think that is the problem on both sides of the family. When one tries to intentionally gain some form of control over every single decision with disregard to the other. I also know I have no right to know every last detail and that is a good thing.

We agree, that it is all about balance. You bring up a very good point. We all have our own perspective on reality.

But, simply put, I think the main word here is "fair." Ideally, that would mean manners, including your MIL when you can and be honest, if you can't. Whether a DIL or MIL, anyone who appears as domineering, arrogant, manipulative, or overly nosy would have to be "checked."

I really appreciate your unbiased view and the willingness to learn and understand. This shows your love of husband. We like that. We don't ask for much. It isn't a struggle between DIL and MIL as the stigma indicates.
Just a little kindness. Please no cross words. But, there should be healthy boundaries. I seem to use the same mantra, "You don't have to like me."

Renny

I knew what you meant, Renny. It was Sassy who asked the question.  I agree with your explanation :)

Hiya Sassy...I have so enjoyed reading you, and your advice...thank you; and, your MIL is very fortunate to have you...you are a sweetie and would make a wonderful DIL....thank you for trying to understand her and for sharing....

I grew up very independent, and privet...I say much more on these forums then I do in real life...hate it when someone asks me how much I pay for things....or asks me questions about privet matters...if I offer, that is one thing, however, I will stand my ground with anyone who oversteps boundaries...and I won't get into he said she said...with anyone...I hate gossip...and dislike it when someone tells me something personal about someone else, and I will tell them, that, that person, told them in confidence, and it is wrong of them to repeat it to me....and once someone does that, I will no longer be intimate with my personal affairs with them....

I also had a MIL like yours...she wanted to involve herself in all of our financial affairs and purchases...it annoyed me, however, since hubby was so used to doing so, I simply overlooked it...however, it made me so angry, hurt and frustrated, and I backed off of her...she just inserted herself into our lives way to much....I was 7 years older then my husband, which also made it difficult...I didn't want to be mothered...or given advice...or asked how much things were, or have things constantly bought for me...do you know, she bought me all my china, and crystal, and never asked me if I liked it?  She just went and picked it out herself and bought it...I was suffocating....

My personal opinion is this...

a lot of MIL's do not let they're son's go...they do not realize, that DIL's are the new lady of the house...that it is in fact, her house, and just b/c your son married her, doesn't give you entitlement to not call before you stop by...boy I hate that, no one should do that....we were raised to call people before we stopped by for a visit, even family....it's out of respect for they're privacy, even if you were not raised like that, your DIL is not you...she comes with her own set of rules and her own culture...and if you want things to go smoothly, we all as MIL's need to honor that from the very beginning....we have to grow, and understand, that just because we were raised with a certain set of rules, doesn't mean, others are...doesn't make us wrong or right, but what it does do, is translate, that we must be open to the need for some down right simply manners and socialization skills...to be aware, that DIL and son, need they're space when they first get married...and to stop insisting to be involved in they're childen's lives to the point that we treat our GC as if they are ours...they are not...

Your new DIL cannot wait to start being on her own, and leading lady of the house....she is excited and very dead sent on being a good wife....the moment, a mil, crosses over boundaries and starts saying, son likes his Lasagne made this way or that...or why did you buy this, or your chair should go over there....or calling son so many times a week...and the list goes on and on....mothers of son's need to let go, completely and allow they're son's to experience his new life, under a new household, with them, making they're own rules of the house together....if we MIL's are asked for our advice, that is a different story, and even then, in the beginning, I wouldn't elaborate...I'd tell my son, your a grown man, you need to start making your own decissions...and, you need to discuss things with DIL, make her think, she's in charge...allow her, her own household....

Before my son was married, I used to tell him, how important it was not to spend so much time at work, and more time, playing with wife, meaning...making special dates, taking her on romantic weekends...and never forgetting she is the love of his life, and the mother of his children and she comes first.  We'd talk about this a lot....

So, in my way of thinking, I believe way to many MIL's get to involved in they're sons life, when they need to embrace the change and get on with they're lives...we do not own our children...and once they marry, it's they're turn to live they're lives...not live up to our expectations and the way they do things, has to be they're way, not ours....

DIL's are very sensitive when they first marry....and any unwanted suggestion that a mil makes, well, quite frankly, if she is insecure, she is not going to identify with the fact that your trying to help her...she is going to take it as if you are telling her, her way of doing things is wrong. 

No MIL on the face of this earth, should be stopping by they're son's home uninvited or without a phone call...that is a big mistake...I'm going to be frank...your son's  and DIL's need they're privacy...they work hard all day and all week, and I don't care how badly you want to see the Grand kids, it is very disrespectful to barge in on them during the week when the DIL's are trying to rush around to get them all fed, so that they can spend some quality time together....same with weekends...they need they're privacy...I cannot tell how how many times my mom and dad, just stopped in and caught us, well, you know....

That annoys me...very badly when parents, think, because it's they're son or daughter, they have the right to just pop in, or expect to be best friends with they're son's or daughters...go everywhere with them...expect them to adhere to our Christmas traditions, when in fact, they want to make they're own.  I hated Christmas, absolutely hated Christmas, b/c of all the running around we had to do, to make certain the inlaws were happy, and so were my parents....awful time...that is why, I started going away for Christmas & Thanksgiving....to have a quiet celebration of my own...

If I had known, then, what I know now, I would have told both our parents, that we were spending Christmas and Thanksgiving at home in our own home, and that was going to be our new tradition...and to keep from hurting one parent, I would tell them both....

I was also raised that you treat everyone fairly...what you give to one child, you give to all....and it wouldn't be fair to nix one parent for another...so, DIL's should also understand that...

I don't mean to insult or hurt anyone's feelings, but, as you all know, I am very honest, cut and dry and don't mince words...

Now, if you have a DIL like mine, or MIL like our DIL's do here, then sometimes there is nothing you can do to avoid trouble....there are just some lost souls in this world, who believe they own people...a normal, mature, aware and intellectual MIL/DIL would understand this...and would try to resolve problems between them and they're inlaws...that is why I love our DIL's here...they are not only aware, but also, intellectual and compassionate...they were in fact, raised by wonderful, mature, parents....

Sassy, I think your correct in all you think and feel regarding this issue...and I am so thankful your here...thank you for this thread

and by the way, I also want to say, while I think of it, to our DIL's here...while reading all your posts, I can't help think about how proud of you I would be if you were my DIL's...not to mention, your characters are those of some very good qualities, your parents taught you... who should be very proud of you all.  I would be honored to have any one of you be my DIL...thank you for your adice, feedback and perspectives on our issues...

Quote from: Sassy on February 15, 2010, 05:09:54 PM

I do not like the idea of MIL feeling she's in the "back seat" of anything.  But at the risk of beating a metaphor, I was hoping for help to explore that feeling, with the goal of finding out if there's a way to avoid MIL feeling that way, without letting her take the wheel, or the "co-pilot" seat next to my husband.

The idiom "taking a back seat" is defined on freedictionary.com as "to let other people take a more active and responsible part in an organization or a situation."

One of the reasons my DH pulled back from her, is because of her wanting to involve herself in decisions we made, and getting very upset when her input wasn't acted upon.  We listened to her ideas, and discussed them with her sometimes.   
Whether it was our wedding, house hunting, budgeting, vacation planning, job searches, graduate school, it was and is all things we want to do as a couple, to plan, to affect how the rest of our lives go.  We ended up sharing less planning with her, because it seemed a way to upset her less, if it turned out we didn't do as she suggested.  Then she felt left out.  A catch-22?

I'm not sure how she could have been in the front seat with us, for most of these? Or does she expect me to take a back seat, because her wisdom and experience supercedes mine?  If I'm honest, I guess ideally I pictured her driving her own car.  Or enjoying the ride with us, if she wants to come along. My own parents drive their own car, or seem content to ride in the proverbial "back seat" for things we plan for ourselves.  I don't know if that's unfair to compare, because my parents are married to each other.  She may have felt for so long that she and DH were "up front" that the role of "back seat" is me taking what was hers.  I'm not sure and I try not to assume or judge.

Please know I am not referring specifically to the member here who used that phrase, not at all, which at this time I don't even recall who it was.   I do not want to offend.  It's the familiar phrase and the feeling around it, itself.   This is about my feelings that come up, when my MIL uses that phrase, and wanting to understand hers.  I am struggling with the idea of it being "selfish" for us to drive our own car.  Any insight to help me gain compassion or understanding is greatly appreciated.  Thank you.

Sassy,
I think you're very healthy in your stance with your MIL and see nothing wrong with her treatment.  The fact that she wants the "front seat" (or seems to), may indicate that she is having some trouble letting go of her son.  As Luise so nicely put it in her post, and I agree, We have to let our sons go when they marry someone.  It's not always easy for some MIL's to realize the dynamics involved and let go of that "control" part of the relationship we are all so used to having while raising our sons when they are still little, and I have met some mothers who never seem to get a grasp on the fact that her DIL is her sons choice and partner.  As his partner, she (the MIL) takes the back seat, just as there seem to be DIL's who don't understand that when they are at their MIL's home, their MIL is "up in the front."  Anyway, I see nothing wrong with your views and believe that since you are very considerate about her feelings, this situation should work out for you in the long run. 

None of us here object to taking a "back seat," but as so many others have stated, we feel kicked to the curb and as the mother of that son we don't feel that is our place either.  I believe these feelings come from completely different treatment by some of our DIL's. 

I have always given my input, but not until asked for it, where my DIL is concerned.  Then I felt it was still "just my opinion" and remained unscathed when decisions didn't go in the direction my opinion would steer.  I don't know if there really is a right or wrong here.  I can tell you that my DIL (no matter what I thought of her or how wrong some of her actions were), did give me full consideration when at my home.  That made a difference for me personally.  I didn't have to be "number one," but it was nice that I was - sometimes...

I hope things work out for you, Sassy.  You are one of our best assets here and I value reading your posts.  It's always a good thing to hear what I believe a healthy DIL thinks and feels, and to see some DIL's (like you) putting so much effort into understanding and trying to have that healthy relationship we all want.  :)

Beautifully said. Thank you. We have the best of two worlds here, MIL/DIL which of course makes it one world, the way it should be. It isn't hypothetical, it's normal and many of us are denied that in our lives. We don't change things (people) here but we find ways to go on. It's called healing. We have created a loving, devoted e-family. A council of wise women. We surround those who join us, our "new with safety, and for some, peace comes, if we are open to it. We rant, cry, expound, nurture and are nurtured. Love abounds and humor tickles our funny bones. MILU has become my dream come true and if I had to dream alone, it would be an empty e-page.

Sassy, I'm honored that you would ask about this. You seem like a dream DIL dealing with an MIL who is having a bit of trouble letting go. May your MIL soon realize how lucky she is! Her son has found a great partner; now she can back off and let go of the reins. He's in good hands :)

I understand you aren't speaking literally in the above posts about seating arrangements, but as we all know from the corporate and political world, seating is very important and can tell a lot about the status of the people involved as well as help or hinder negotiations.

As a DIL to a wonderful MIL (who has passed, and who I miss every day) and as an MIL to a DIL who is trying to be polite around me but really doesn't like or respect me, I think the "backseat" discussion has been very interesting and enlightening. My first mental picture was of an overbearing woman, a "ship under full sail" as my dear grandpa used to say, plopping herself in the front seat of the car without being invited while the poor little wife was left to fend for herself in the backseat. My mind immediately jumped to the very real image of a day when we were visiting MIL and took a sightseeing drive. I offered MIL the front seat because I wanted her to be comfortable and to be able to talk with her son, my DH, more easily. It was a way of honoring her. I gladly sat in the back with our children. It would have made me very uncomfortable to be riding in the Queen Seat while my dear MIL was stuffed in the back. She doted on her grandkids, but 4 hours in the backseat with them could get old quickly:)

DH (over 6 ft, large man) and I are always stuffed in the back seat with DDD when we ride with DS and DIL, and I was put there when riding with DS and her sister, who she sees often, after spending hours helping DIL with an exhausting project. I will take my own car next time! I didn't feel tolerated, much less honored.

DH and I are "in the trunk" (LOL, Mominwaiting, that was great!) as far as DIL is concerned. There are times DS wants our input on decisions they're making, but DIL will always defer to her parents (who haven't made such great choices in their lives.)

So, I think that the seating arrangements, literally and figuratively, should change with each situation. However, some people hang on to them like grim death (I had a boss who didn't want to give up control of his reserved parking at the company even after he retired!!)

Gosh, every word here is so validating, thank you.  Thank you.  I did not know what to expect when I wrote this and am grateful to be understood.

There's a lot more history and other more important things that are going wrong.  I wish this was our only issue.  But they all weave together, and this is one part. 

What she would say is "I know you just want me to take a back seat" and my response would be to say "no we don't."  But then I'd think about it, and think well, maybe she's right, and I do.  Then I'd feel I wasn't being honest with her.  She was right about my motivations.  And I felt dishonest and unloving. 

She also says "I can't just take a back seat when", when her son's making his first real estate purchase, when she thinks he's making a mistake, or whatever it is.   Then that would make me angry, like she didn't trust us or him to be able to take care of ourselves.  And I'd think about it, later realizing she wanted the best for him, or to protect him.  Then I'd feel silly or petty for feeling the anger before. 

It is complex.  Thank you all for welcoming me, and explaining this better from a different point of view.  "Kicked to the curb," and "stuffed in the trunk" were extentions of the metaphor that were funny and painful at the same time to read.

QuoteDIL's are very sensitive when they first marry....and any unwanted suggestion that a mil makes, well, quite frankly, if she is insecure, she is not going to identify with the fact that your trying to help her...she is going to take it as if you are telling her, her way of doing things is wrong. 

This seems to be so true.  As I become more secure (only been married since October), I hope this angle (my sensitivity) ceases to factor as part of the problem.  Thank you all.

Sassy,
You are a whole lot nicer and more understanding than either one of mine are. 

Hi all. I am new here and post on the "other" site too. LOL. I am divorced from an emotionally abusive man and had a difficult MIL and SIL! I guess I am a veteran, huh? Anyway, I read every post and they all gave good advice. I think your MIL is having a hard time letting go too. My XMIL had a difficult time when XH and I moved in together and even when we married! We tried to reassure her too but she had this hate campaign against me.  :-[ I now have a BF that is awesome now and his parents are really nice. I must say its a breath of fresh air! But, maybe try having lunch with your MIL (You and DH) and talk to her about your boundaries and set some healthy ones. Let her know that you appreciate her advice, but that you are adults now and need to make your own decisions and own mistakes. That's how you learn!  ;) Good luck!

Sassy, Chickie is right on the money...you are definately a great DIL...

but, from now on, if she says something to that affect, do what my mother used to do....say to here, while grabbing her by the arm lovingly...come on, we need to talk....and then tell her how you feel, b/c I think, she's actually asking you how you feel by making that statement, about her taking a back seat....your awareness is admirable, and what makes me love you so much...you are an ideal DIL...however, please don't beat yourself up for your feelings...

Sassy, we grow, we evolve, we make mistakes and learn from them, by our mistakes...and I'm not saying you made them, but, what I will say is, your growth in such a short time is outstanding, and know, that I was where you are once...and so was your MIL...I don't know the whole situation, but I feel, if you sit her down and lovingly but firmly tell her your feelings...you will find out what her motives are quicker then if you beat around the bush and continue to allow her to get away with things....a lot of reasons for a relationship's downfall is lack of communication and second guessing someone else, when all we have to go by is our very own personal cultures and beliefs...if you talk to her and she starts making excuses for her actions, instead of looking interested and/or saying, ohhhhh my, that was not my intent, I'm going to have to work on that, but if you express to her, how important she is to you, and she's happy, then her husband will be happy....which in turn creates such a peaceful envioronment for everyone....

remember, the more you enable them, the more they will take, which is human nature...once in a while, we humans have to pull out the stops to get people to hear us, and that's the important issue here, listening...I hope she listens to you. 

and please, if anyone thinks my advice to Sassy is wrong, please, please chime in, as I don't want things to get worse for her, b/c I suggested to her to do something about it....

big hugs...
creme

Quote from: Anna on February 16, 2010, 11:48:13 AM
Back seat, literally ?  I have a question.  When I'm out with my hubby & mil. I always give the front passenger seat to my mil.  She is older & has trouble getting in & out of the car.  When I go out with son & dil I always have to sit in the back seat, when out with oson & fdil, fdil always gives me the front seat.  Out of respect for my mil, & fdil, out of respect for me, give up the front seat.   What does giving up the front seat say about fdil & me, & what does not giving up the front seat say abput dil??   I found this thread very interesting & thought provoking.  Thanx Sassy, great topic.  I don't mind the "back seat".  What I don't like is being trashed on the curb.

it doesn't say anything about you or her...not really, she could be doing it to hurt you, but then again, it could be her culture, the way she was raised...and she just doesn't know any different, or isn't aware enough to understand, however, you are, it is simply a difference in two seperate individual beliefs....

sure it's nice to do that...and my DIL could say she was doing that for me, but every single time we got in the car, she'd ask and I'd say, no, I'd really like to sit in the back with GD...but she kept at me and at me, everytime we got in the car....I didn't pay money to fly all the way down there to not spend quality time with my GD....so, do you see my point...it depends on the person, and what they were raised to believe...just b/c you think that way, Chickie, doesn't make you right or wrong, and the same with your DIL...it's who they are and if we can learn to accept that, then the small things can be left as small things? 

even if you'd disagree with this post, doesn't make me right or you wrong, or me right or wrong, as there is no right or wrong answer...people are who and what they were raised to believe, it's they're culture....

I'm not the one who said this, Creme.

Quote from: thesecondwife on February 16, 2010, 11:43:29 AM
Hi all. I am new here and post on the "other" site too. LOL. I am divorced from an emotionally abusive man and had a difficult MIL and SIL! I guess I am a veteran, huh? Anyway, I read every post and they all gave good advice. I think your MIL is having a hard time letting go too. My XMIL had a difficult time when XH and I moved in together and even when we married! We tried to reassure her too but she had this hate campaign against me.  :-[ I now have a BF that is awesome now and his parents are really nice. I must say its a breath of fresh air! But, maybe try having lunch with your MIL (You and DH) and talk to her about your boundaries and set some healthy ones. Let her know that you appreciate her advice, but that you are adults now and need to make your own decisions and own mistakes. That's how you learn!  ;) Good luck!

That's a great idea...I like it, but I'm wondering, if she might feel like she's being ganged up on, if hubby is there also, but then again, it could work the other way, if hubby is there to validate he feels the same way?  depends on the MIL I guess....but welcome and nice to have you here....

Hugs
Creme

Quote from: 2chickiebaby on February 16, 2010, 11:58:55 AM
I'm not the one who said this, Creme.

ahhh, my bad, silly me, so sorry Chickie...I should have said Anna....

thanks...

I knew that Sassy had asked the question. I guess I didn't make myself clear.

Sassy, it sounds like your MIL IS overstepping her boundary. She shouldn't feel entitled to any decisions regarding her son and you and your business matters. Sometimes, I think at the beginning, some MILs seem to have a harder time of the healthy letting go. New boundaries are being formed even though neither MIL or DIL realize it. You don't have to respond in anger, but both you and husband, have to unite in letting her know politely, that "we discuss these matters on our own, and if we need some further advice we will surely let you know." That would tell me, "Hey, I am pushing here" and give a reminder of the new situation and backoff.

I think it is like setting up the foundation for this new "family dynamic." Really, no one has the experience of this situation between MIL and DIL, and it may be from lack of knowing how to interact. Things have changed, and many people, in general, do not like change. But, it doesn't have to be a bad thing. I think a lot relies on healthy backgrounds of all involved. Not to say, blame everything on our parents, but it does provide some generalities as to how we treat others. We cannot have the same expectations of others, and I think that is the beginning of a problem I am learning.

Our sons like different parts of the DIL's personality that a MIL may find not so attractive. There are so many factors. But, we aren't married to them. I do think, MIL's have a "save" attitude. But, our "job" is done. We are no longer the "protectors." Son and wife, have to learn on their own. That is very hard for some MILs.

We all know, it isn't possible to get along with everyone. How does a MIL or DIL handle conflict? Sons don't ask that.

I think in some ways, DILs do have to nudge the MIL to the realization that you have the wishes of husband in mind. It is okay. I had respect for DIL as a mother. I went through it all; being called names, her parents "superiority" and controlling their lives...and was fine with that, until it just wouldn't stop. Then, the GC got older, and I started to see my GC transform into saying the same snotty remarks she had overheard, I lost respect for DIL. I didn't mind the put downs, until I felt that I was being totally driven out and until I was; my GC was being used as a pawn. I felt that is all I could handle. It made me realize this is how DIL must have "grown up". We were raised not to call other people names in our original family, especially amung each other. We all have different upbringings. This was a very natural aspect to DIL's family. Everyone was a "piece of crap."

You had mentioned the "pendulum." It swung too far for me to fit in anywhere. I was being terminated.

So, don't feel wrong if your MIL pushes too much. It doesn't mean disrespect to reset the boundaries. Respect should always be given, until someone continues to disrespect us with full intention.

Sorry, this is so long, but I think because you are starting out, it is an important reminder of how things can be healthy and loving. Sometimes, it sure isn't easy. But, by dealing with things in a kind way, it will hopefully eliminate resentment. But, there is simply nothing wrong with asking for respect as a couple. I, believe, I did that. It simply crossed the line.

DIL's family had too much influence over her. And, I finally reached a point, where I could no longer tolerate the verbal abuse. It was not fair to GC. If they were to be poisoned, I would have nothing to do with it. That was my final straw (metaphor).  ;)

After all that, I realized, I meant "backseat" to mean the way "I felt." But, as so many have pointed out, I didn't want "center stage" only a glimmer of respect, instead of the waste bin.

The differences in the literal back seat are interesting, too.   The front seat as a seat of honor, versus next to the child seat as the preferred place. 

Some here know my history; there are other, bigger problems in play right now.  Currently, DH is not regularly speaking to MIL.   The most recent conversations were him asking her to go to family counseling with him.  MIL agreed, twice, then she ended up not going both times. 

DH's biggest problem with MIL is that she says bad things about me to him, and to her mother (DH's grandmother) and her sister (DH's Aunt) and they approach him as mediators, but they don't know all the facts.   They just know MIL's distressed, and they want him to do as she asks, so she won't be.  On his end, he's tired of hearing untrue things, and he's asked MIL to stop so many times.  He tends to avoid his Aunt, but his Grandmother is elderly and I can tell he feels cheated that they can't have a nice conversation anymore.   

I'd say MIL's biggest problem with DH is that he used to pay for a lot of her bills, especially shopping ones, no questions asked.  When he shifted his financial focus towards our future, she apparently concluded that I was preventing him from doing what he always did for her. Though we work in similar positions, she refers to me as a gold-digger.   Its true that resources (time, money) he once had available for her, he no longer does.  I do not tell him how to spend money, and neither does he tell me.  We both have the same goals, and both inherently work towards them.   

DH gets annoyed when MIL mails her bills to him.  He usually just mails them back.  But what hurts him, is what MIL says to him about me, and what MIL says to the people she goes to for support.  He doesn't want to talk to her when every conversation is questions about what he's buying.  He's told her that multiple times, and she doesn't stop.  Common sense would seem that then she doesn't want to talk to him.  But she still calls and texts and emails us to see us.  He tells me to ignore it, as he does, until he gathers his wits and approaches her again.  (This approach and retreat cycle has been continuing for months).  He doesn't want to see her, if she can't stop "trashing" me.

This is off the topic, I realize.  I thank everyone for their insight.  Because I was offered so much advice, too,  I thought it relevant to explain while it's part of what we're facing, it's not the top issue.

 I recently got a different/fresh perspective on child/parent dynamics.  My DH recently had a friend come in from another state to spend a few days with us.  He's reaching middle age is never married.  Not sure why though, he seems like a nice enough guy.

DH, friend and I were all sitting around the table last night talking and I we were talking about our families.  I casually mentioned that I found out in the last couple years that my IL's really didnt' like me too and are very critical of me and most anything I do.  I didn't go into detail as to not "air too much of our dirty laundry."

This is what he told us about his mom:
She's very emotional and has a hard time when her two boys are not living in the same area as her.  He limits information to her b/c of some of her reactions to certain things that may be going on his life.  He never takes money from any relative so to not give them an opening or opportunity to try and control him.    He said just before he left to see us she called him crying about something.  He said he feels like he has reassure her a lot.

So after he got done explaining this I said, "so do you think she'd have a hard time with a new wife if you were to get married."  And he said a resounding "yes"  He said that his mom would immediately butt heads with the new wife.    The friend then told me that my MIL probably views me as not being good enough for my DH and that MIL resents me b/c she raised him and probably feels that I don't meet her standards for her child.  He said that is exactly how he thinks his mom would feel about someone he married.

I don't understand this.  Like many other posters it would nice if we could all just be friends.  This poor mom is setting herself up to not be liked from the get go by the friend's wife.  I suspect that when he gets married the relatinionship  with his mom will really dwindle b/c of the friends concern of how his mom will treat his new wife.

That's my thoughts on why a MIL might end up having to literally "take a back seat"  If she really pushes the DIL away like that.

You did nothing, Anna.  Nothing.  We're not worried about our son's marrying beneath themselves, at least I'm not....and I don't think anyone here is.

I don't care who my sons married, I would have loved her or tried to love her. 

Sassy, that is way too much MIL. Your DH, was taken advantage of by his mother. And, the nerve of his mother, to expect more. The more you both take care of your own matters, the more she acts out. That is so sad.

It is not your DH's responsibility. It is still probably stressful, too. It may be that the relationship with his mother, may not be able to be maintained if only on a financial basis. I am sorry. Be as kind as you can and accept no guilt.

You are the DIL we would love to have...can we adopt?

((Hugs))
Renny

Sassy, it sounds like the shifting of financial responsibility with the introduction of you into his family is what may have caused her insecurity and "gold-digging" remarks.  Do you think DH (if he hasn't already) can pull her aside and talk to her about that aspect, and try to reason with her that she must realize that sooner or later the possibility of him meeting his "life partner" would have been an issue.  Anyone he would have gotten involved with would have gotten that reaction from her. 

Give her some time to see that she hasn't lost a son, but gained a daughter.  Remind her of that in a loving way.  I really hope you can push away her insecurity, but if you can't, be good to yourselves too.  You deserve a pat on the back for your understanding and efforts.  Don't give up yet, but don't take blame either! Some MIL's just can't let go so quickly, and I' have seen others who never let go.  Help her realize that she has a new daughter, instead of competition.  After time I hope she will come to understand that and relax.  If she does, she will see you for who you are and you may be able to "start" with a wonderful relationship.  I make no promises, just want to give hope.  Sometimes hope really does make dreams come true.

Sassy, you would be the "dream" DIL for any MIL on this site.  You aren't trying to poison your husbands relationship, but are putting efforts in to understand his mother.  I still think thing could work for you.  I think you will have the patience to reach her.  There are always those situations where we can't change things.  If you get to a place where you realize she isn't going to change, then be easy on yourself and know you are doing your very best...

Quotenotaccepted&finewithit
She's very emotional and has a hard time when her two boys are not living in the same area as her.  He limits information to her b/c of some of her reactions to certain things that may be going on his life.  He never takes money from any relative so to not give them an opening or opportunity to try and control him.    He said just before he left to see us she called him crying about something.  He said he feels like he has reassure her a lot.

So after he got done explaining this I said, "so do you think she'd have a hard time with a new wife if you were to get married."  And he said a resounding "yes"  He said that his mom would immediately butt heads with the new wife.    The friend then told me that my MIL probably views me as not being good enough for my DH and that MIL resents me b/c she raised him and probably feels that I don't meet her standards for her child.  He said that is exactly how he thinks his mom would feel about someone he married.

I don't understand this.  Like many other posters it would nice if we could all just be friends.  This poor mom is setting herself up to not be liked from the get go by the friend's wife.  I suspect that when he gets married the relatinionship  with his mom will really dwindle b/c of the friends concern of how his mom will treat his new wife.

When MIL's act like this, to me, it doesn't seem like they're playing with a full deck, however, since I've been writing on the forums, it shocks me how dysfunctional so many people are.  Any loving mother would realize, her son's need to live they're lives, need to marry and go forward...be greatful for the opportunity to give birth and raise a child...however, these mothers, don't seem to understand, they're son's are married, and must live a whole new life.  It's change, which life gives us to enable us to learn how to adapt...and go forward, nothing ever stays the same.  And what really shocks me is a mother like this, actually believes, she can hold onto her sons at all costs. 

This should be a totally new and enveloping life for her, children grown, now time to slow down and travel, get to know hubby again...why is it, some mothers, depend on they're son's for happiness....I do know that a lot of mothers do way to much for they're sons, creating a monster for the women who marry him....b/c they waited on him hand and foot...to make your children your whole purpose in life is so wrong...so very distorted and goes against the whole of nature...

Yanno, it's sad to think about, but perhaps she is the reason he never married...he fears putting someone thru this....

I'm also sorry your MIL does not appreciate the fact that her son, married a beautiful woman...and realized, she is now blessed in having two children.

I could not have other children, and so badly wanted more....the loss of 3 was very painful....however, I knew someday my son would marry, and saw ahead, to a daughter and grandchildren...

One of the things that I always thought about was...I cannot wait to sit back and observe my son, him, finally realizing and experiencing love and marriage and parenthood...

I sometimes, become dumb founded when I read DIL's & MIL's who have these problems...and wonder, what in God's name is wrong with people...how did they get this way...how can they live day in and day out, thriving and feeding off of causing problems between family members, to the point that they cut us off from our GC, son's etc?  And then there are wonderful DIL's as yourself...and those here in this forum who feel the same way we do....trying to work it out and understand someone, who refuses to give love, and giving love means, letting go of your sons...allowing them to become a man...a parent, husband, and not interfering....it absolutely amazes me...are human beings that stagnated in they're own selfishness and greed?  Not to mention, the years and years of pain they cause so many other people, whose lives they change for the worse?  I don't get it and never will....

I'm glad your here  and hope that somehow this will all smooth over for you...

That is one man's story and his relationship with his Mother....it's not the way the vast majority of us feel.  In fact, it's not the way most Mothers feel about a new loved one coming into their son's life.

This story just feeds the stereotype. 

Sassy, I don't know what to say, except I wish your husband could somehow get your MIL in long term counseling...
a friend of mine, who I've written about before, whose wife cut off his mother from they're lives...well they had 3 kids...he is now 62, but his entire life was spent working long long hours to keep from going home and cut off his mother, b/c his wife was insecure, very nasty and controlling...when we talk on the phone and I share stories with him about my DIL...he is constantly saying, I can't believe how much your DIL is like my wife? 

Anyway, his children will have no contact with her...until she agrees to go to counseling with them...she still refuses....I don't get it...why?  Can't they see the pain they're causing everyone, most of all themselves...

I would go to counseling in a heartbeat with my DIL and son!?

Sassy, perhaps, your husband could do the same thing, tell her, he is cutting her off completely unless she go to counseling with him....?  I know it's tough to do...or, I wonder if counselors come to the home? 

Your in my thoughts and prayers....

Quote from: 2chickiebaby on February 17, 2010, 04:37:28 AM
That is one man's story and his relationship with his Mother....it's not the way the vast majority of us feel.  In fact, it's not the way most Mothers feel about a new loved one coming into their son's life.

This story just feeds the stereotype.

His story was not just one story to me or a stereotype.  When he was telling his story it reminded me very much of the very real situation that I am going through.

It seems to me that on occasion you have lumped DIL's into one category as well.  I haven't posted on here much lately because of comments towards me like this.  If I don't like what someone has said lately I just bypass it.

I noticed the name of the site has recently changed but I feel like some posters are being made to feel like they are not welcome here anymore.

Notaccepted, is rejection what you're looking for? I feel that this site goes overboard to welcome DILs who are truly trying to build a relationship with their MILs. I'm sorry you feel that DILs aren't welcome.

Your story about your friend is very sad. For some reason he had difficulty breaking away from his mom during the appropriate time (17 - 21 years? Isn't that when sons usually want to go their own way?) Mom's fault? Son's fault? Son blaming mom for his own fears about commitment? Who knows?

I haven't seen any statistics on the number of wack-o moms/MILs who tie their sons to them forever vs. the number of normal ones who expect their sons to grow up and start families of their own and who has the most MIL/DIL trouble of the two groups, but I know the MILs on this site are mostly of the latter group. They continue to try against unbelievable odds, and are thrilled to get a DILs reasonable perspective.

Based on what I've read on this site, your friend's story 'feeds a stereotype' that isn't true here. It's a reminder to all of us that in many places we're judged the minute we're identified as MILs and we might be sensitive about it. It's also a reminder of behavior we do not want to emulate!!

Well, I guess I could have renamed our site "Stereotypes Anonymous." It's easy to go there on either side of the coin. That's what the hate sites are all about. Truth be told, there are a lot of off-the-wall MILs and DILs and when we are deep into experiencing one or the other, I'm sure we see them everywhere we turn.

This isn't the place to take up arms for either point of view. It's not that kind of site. All DILs aren't like this and all MILs are not like that. Both points of view are defensible and we are "Wise Women" when we don't take exception to each other. The bottom line is kindness and when that is too hard to come by, tolerance.

I'm sorry you have felt unwelcome. If that's true, I'm not sure it's the general consensus. You are smart (dare I say a Wise Woman) to just pass on posts you disagree with. That's what I do. Look at my negative Karma. I have 12 minuses! I feel unwelcome lots of the time. I have noticed that you have changed your name. Maybe I should change mine to "The Minus Queen and Proud of It!"  ;D What can say?

If this site no longer works for you, that's something else all-together. You need to feel that it serves you. It's not everyone's cup of tea but I think you have a lot to offer.

Quote from: cremebrulee on February 17, 2010, 04:22:08 AM

Quotenotaccepted&finewithit
I sometimes, become dumb founded when I read DIL's & MIL's who have these problems...and wonder, what in God's name is wrong with people...how did they get this way...how can they live day in and day out, thriving and feeding off of causing problems between family members, to the point that they cut us off from our GC, son's etc?

NA&FWI,
Simple and true. This is what is so hard to understand. Especially, if we don't live our own lives this way. Hard to comprehend. We are coming from a loving place and "expect" loved ones to be this way, too.

Renny,
I will always remember what you said about dysfunction having a shelf life.  I hope so....I hope this mixed up feeling we have with our DILs gets over by the time they have DILs.  I would not want this to follow them.  It's too much for people to take.

Some of the most profound understandings have come from simple statements. It is pure dysfunction. When I get exhausted trying to find "reasons" for the hurtful feelings, I just find one word that sums it up.

I think I misquoted NA&FWI. I think it was Creme's quote? I was cutting and pasting, and sorry, if that happened. I found the message/quote to be so meaningful. Anyone, correct me.

"
When MIL's act like this, to me, it doesn't seem like they're playing with a full deck, however, since I've been writing on the forums, it shocks me how dysfunctional so many people are.  Any loving mother would realize, her son's need to live they're lives, need to marry and go forward...be greatful for the opportunity to give birth and raise a child...however, these mothers, don't seem to understand, they're son's are married, and must live a whole new life.  It's change, which life gives us to enable us to learn how to adapt...and go forward, nothing ever stays the same.  And what really shocks me is a mother like this, actually believes, she can hold onto her sons at all costs.

This should be a totally new and enveloping life for her, children grown, now time to slow down and travel, get to know hubby again...why is it, some mothers, depend on they're son's for happiness....I do know that a lot of mothers do way to much for they're sons, creating a monster for the women who marry him....b/c they waited on him hand and foot...to make your children your whole purpose in life is so wrong...so very distorted and goes against the whole of nature..."

Beautifully said. My XMIL was like the friend's M. She once even told my XH that he was a bad son for moving out of her house and in with me and getting married. I could not wrap my mind around it. It was very strange to me.

Second Wife,
That is not what we are about.  Please be assured, we have lives.

C/B - Some of us do...many of us do...(have lives) and then there are the exceptions where pathology reigns. Sad.

I agree there are MILs who can't let go - my dad's mom was one of them. She was a "cling-on" from the day she gave birth to him and was cruel to my mother after she and dad married. Her behavior made my parents limit their exposure to her, quite rightly.

However, most of us here are not MILs of that nature. Because of my mom's experience, which I observed first hand, I was very aware of how to be a good MIL. But suddenly, without warning, we were shunned and hated by DIL. DS was livid; he must have said something to her because she is trying to be more tolerant. We're still wary but hoping it'll work out.

These are the kinds of DIL issues a lot of us are dealing with here. We're confused and hurt, and we miss having an easy, comfortable relationship with our DSs. I LOVE having time to myself and time to spend with my husband! I absolutely do not yearn to have adult children living under my roof! However, it would be nice to feel like I still have a family. No one thinks DIL's parents are clingy or inappropriate when they get together every weekend and holiday after spending the whole work week together!

I know what you mean, Penstamen....I was thinking about all this today and wondered why is it necessary to cease having a good relationship with your son when they marry?  I will never understand. What is the threat? 

Some of the DILs can turn a beautiful book into a horrible, disturbed writing if it contains something 'kind' that a son did for his Mother. It's okay, though if the book was about something 'kind' a Daughter did for her Mother.  They'd get all bubbly over that.

I will never understand. 

I have a friend who has an adopted but much loved son.  She willingly made the birth mother a part of her son's life.  She thought it was for his own good.  He has had a child now and is gravitating towards his birth mother and almost ignoring my friend.   What a heartbreak for my friend!!
 

Quote from: penstamen on February 17, 2010, 04:45:05 PM
No one thinks DIL's parents are clingy or inappropriate when they get together every weekend and holiday after spending the whole work week together!

Exactly! Good choice of words. I, too, like my solitude. But, apparently, none of her family could bare that and that is why they constantly need to stop by their daughter's house and call every day (son and her both said this) and spend the weekend there with or without grandkids. And, the only main road to her parents house goes right passed mine! Yippeee! Think we will go see other Grandma? NOT. Basic rights, where'd those go? Why can't her folks sit home alone? A little insecure looking at each other? Can't walk from one room to the next without knowing what her daughter is doing? And, the son's MIL get's what? That is what I am talking a about.

A little unfair? More. Must be a "joke" right???  :(

Quote from: 2chickiebaby on February 17, 2010, 05:08:29 PM
I know what you mean, Penstamen....I was thinking about all this today and wondered why is it necessary to cease having a good relationship with your son when they marry?  I will never understand. What is the threat? 

Some of the DILs can turn a beautiful book into a horrible, disturbed writing if it contains something 'kind' that a son did for his Mother. It's okay, though if the book was about something 'kind' a Daughter did for her Mother.  They'd get all bubbly over that.

I will never understand. 

I have a friend who has an adopted but much loved son.  She willingly made the birth mother a part of her son's life.  She thought it was for his own good.  He has had a child now and is gravitating towards his birth mother and almost ignoring my friend.   What a heartbreak for my friend!!

That's sad.  Your friend must feel like she's living in a nightmare.  I'm so sorry Chickie!

You should tell her about this wonderful site.  The support here may help her with all she must be going through.

I think I will....she's so fragile right now that I don't know if she can handle it.  Sometimes, even when we're writing, our words don't sound like we mean them to.

No matter how hard I try, my words might come across as not sound good to the other person.

Has anyone noticed that? 

Quote from: thesecondwife on February 17, 2010, 09:50:14 AM
".I do know that a lot of mothers do way to much for they're sons, creating a monster for the women who marry him....b/c they waited on him hand and foot...to make your children your whole purpose in life is so wrong...so very distorted and goes against the whole of nature..."

My dil said this to me once while they were living with me...I created a monster because I did so much for him as he was growing up.
Well maybe I did spoil him at times...my children WERE  my whole purpose in life until they moved out of my house and created their own lives.

I guess my dil expected me to teach him to cook all meals, clean the house, do the laundry, cut the grass, shovel the snow, take care of the kids cause she had them all day etc....work 12 hour days....and still have time to be a good husband.

Sometimes you have to give a little to make a marriage work...be equal partners...
you make your marriage work...I have nothing to do with that. 

In the world where all is equal between men and women now, all warm and toasty, do mother's of Daughters spoil them ^question mark^ 

I spoiled my daughter too Chicky but, she'll tell you that I spoiled her brother more.  :-\

I spoiled all of mine.  I was a stay at home mother so it was easy :D 

I don't regret it either!  I enjoyed what time I had with them while I had it.  Is that wrong? ;)

Quote from: RedRose on February 17, 2010, 05:58:10 PM
I spoiled my daughter too Chicky but, she'll tell you that I spoiled her brother more.  :-\

That's too funny Rose!  One of my daughters(twins) thinks I spoiled everyone, but her!  LOL!  She just heard "no" more because she was more demanding...

Nothing wrong with spoiling...we only have them a little while.
8)

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I agree!

Just wanted to let all you ladies know.....Friday,on DR.Phil,the show is about .....In-law Drama....plus,there will be a checklist that will warn you of in-law issues before you tie the knot.

I know some of you don't care for Dr.Phil,but it might be a good show to watch.

Thanks, MIW. I am the exception. I watch the show regularly. I like his approach.

That will be an interesting show. I'll watch it, just before leaving for work.

Regarding the "making your children your whole life goes against the grain of nature" statement, I'd like some facts to back it up. Some animals eat their young, some nuture them until they are able to fly away, and some stay in a family unit for years.

My DIL criticizes our childrearing methods, but only to make the point that we won't be equal grandparents with her parents. Her criticisms change with the weather - one minute she says we were too strict, the next too lenient. It's just a way of letting us know we aren't respected. My kids learned how to do laundry, cook and clean. If DS chooses not to now, it's not my problem :)

Quote from: penstamen on February 17, 2010, 08:46:52 PM
Regarding the "making your children your whole life goes against the grain of nature" statement, I'd like some facts to back it up. Some animals eat their young, some nuture them until they are able to fly away, and some stay in a family unit for years.

My DIL criticizes our childrearing methods, but only to make the point that we won't be equal grandparents with her parents. Her criticisms change with the weather - one minute she says we were too strict, the next too lenient. It's just a way of letting us know we aren't respected. My kids learned how to do laundry, cook and clean. If DS chooses not to now, it's not my problem :)

Sometimes you just have to smile... 

If DS chooses not to cook, clean or do laundry now, it isn't your problem.  If your DIL were wise, she would ask you how you went about making sure he was doing his chores growing up.  Wouldn't you be able to give her some pointers?  LOL! ;D

As far as the statement about how we raise our children, we all do it differently.  I don't think one way is any more important than another, and our time with them while they are little is limited.  I understand the "spoiling," and did it myself.  As long as they grow to become strong and stable, I'm happy and I think I've done a good job!  Hear that?  It's me patting my own back! ;D

Hang in there Pen! I'm sending you a very huge hug!  You need to pat your own back too! :)

Quote from: penstamen on February 17, 2010, 08:46:52 PM
Regarding the "making your children your whole life goes against the grain of nature" statement, I'd like some facts to back it up. Some animals eat their young, some nuture them until they are able to fly away, and some stay in a family unit for years.

My DIL criticizes our childrearing methods, but only to make the point that we won't be equal grandparents with her parents. Her criticisms change with the weather - one minute she says we were too strict, the next too lenient. It's just a way of letting us know we aren't respected. My kids learned how to do laundry, cook and clean. If DS chooses not to now, it's not my problem :)

First, off, let me say, that I apologize for anyone who took offense to my statement...It wasn't meant towards anyone here....

however, it was meant, towards some women who do make they're children not only they're entire lives, but, they're happiness, as well..
I've seen it and talked to women who do this...

did I spoil my son, heck yeah...however, he did have chores to do, and I was strict at times...for which he now thanks me?  We all make mistakes, we all look back and wish we could have done things differently...heck, I do...

anyway, my point is, there are women out there who have nothing in they're lives but they're children...and when they're son's get married, they feel as if they must interfer, run they're finances...tell they're sons and DIL's how to live...I had a MIL like that and that is who I was thinking of, when I made that comment.

There are mothers out there who cannot let go of they're sons....who also, think they own they're sons...who expect they're son's and DIL's to do everything for them...there are mother's out there who are that way, b/c my maternal mother was like that...she claimed she worked so hard to be a single mother and put me thru school, so that when I graduated, I wasn't leaving home, I was going to get a good job, and continue living with her and handing over to her my entire pay check, as I had done since I was 13 years old and I never regreted it, however, when I graduated I wanted to put myself thru college, my maternal mother would not allow me to. 

So, please note, when your reading my posts, I am not directing any fingers in anyone's way, but my own personal experiences.



So, please, ladies, when I make comments like I do, I'm talking thru experience, and not pointing fingers at anyone here.

When my son was growing up in our home, he was a priority of course...but, he wasn't my whole life...I wouldn't allow him to be, b/c I was never going to do the same thing to him, as I had done to me, by my own maternal mother and a MIL. 

I encouraged him to go, to experience life, people and travel...and he did...he joined the military and got out of our small town, and thankfully away from a small town concept that I grew up with....so, for that I'm thankful...

I've had so much joy, in life, through travel, and I wanted him to experience the same....

I apologize if anyone felt I was pointing fingers at them.

Every young mother who comes by my wayside, and tells me she is expecting a son...I always tell them, do me a huge favor.  I was married to a man whose mother did EVERYTHING for him...she didn't teach him how to be self sufficient...which was the only reason why he married me, he wanted a mother...to cook, to do his laundry...to clean, to pick up after him, to even do all the outside work, b/c he was lazy due to his mother.  If he'd start a project, and she was around, after an hour of work, she'd say, "Oh, lets go take a break", you've been working to hard.  This man, tore my house apart and it took him 14 years to put it back together b/c he was lazy...he had no drive to be helpful or work around the house....I did it all...so yes, his mother created a monster for me....

I raised my son differently...after dinner we sat around and talked, it was family time...he got up from the table, rinsed his dishes off and put them in the dish washer...he knew how to do laundry, run the vaccum, mow the lawn weed the gardens, iron, cook, etc.  I wouldn't have a woman, my son's wife, go thru what I went thru...and that is why I won't marry again...I never want to wake up realizing, I've lived someone else's idea of what my life should be...and, I never want to be a mother to a man again...never had a good marriage, so, I don't know what I'm missing.

and Pen, your DIL is wrong to criticize your parenting skills....she will make mistakes plenty of them...we all do, however, that is between her and her God, and not anyone else....

she probably does that to make herself feel she is above you...she has to b/c she is insecure, your probably a very good mother and she fears not being equal to you or better in her husband's eyes, therefore, she trys to verbally put you down, to make herself feel better about herself...view it as what it is...rather then taking it personal...she is very insecure, and actually, take that as a huge compliment.  When someone goes the mile to criticize you....well, there is a much bigger picture behind those words...believe me...
Hugs
Creme

Creme,
I hope somebody corrects me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe anyone took real offense at your comment.  I found humor in the fact that most of us feel we DID spoil our children.   ;D

Your point was very well stated, and yes, I agree there are mothers out there who don't know when it's time to let go so they can start living their own lives.  I believe that is who you were referring to. 

You are our very own deep thinker here!  I for one am not only aware of that, but appreciate the fact that I will always get an honest and heartfelt answer from you, and value your input and opinions. 

It was a funny comment.  That's all.  I hope you can feel the big hugs coming at you! :)

P.S. - you should be patting your own back too!  We are all such good mother's here and very concerned with our children.  Think of the ones who weren't raised with these concerns or love!  Yes, pat your back Creme!  Sometimes we have to do it ourselves!  I hope I hear the patting sounds...

Quote from: cocobars on February 18, 2010, 04:47:09 AM
Creme,
I hope somebody corrects me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe anyone took real offense at your comment.  I found humor in the fact that most of us feel we DID spoil our children.   ;D

Your point was very well stated, and yes, I agree there are mothers out there who don't know when it's time to let go so they can start living their own lives.  I believe that is who you were referring to. 

You are our very own deep thinker here!  I for one am not only aware of that, but appreciate the fact that I will always get an honest and heartfelt answer from you, and value your input and opinions. 

It was a funny comment.  That's all.  I hope you can feel the big hugs coming at you! :)

P.S. - you should be patting your own back too!  We are all such good mother's here and very concerned with our children.  Think of the ones who weren't raised with these concerns or love!  Yes, pat your back Creme!  Sometimes we have to do it ourselves!  I hope I hear the patting sounds...

many thanks for understanding coco...yes, I've been told many many times, I am very deep...can't help it, been like that since I was very young...and in being that way, plus very cut and dry, I've found that in forums, people do take me the wrong way...or take offense to me...I can't help it, I try to do my best...however, I don't beat around the bush, I say what's in my heart, with no malace meant...

I've already been accused of writing things, and then saying what I've said above, which is supposed to make it ok...and I don't believe I'm above or beyond mistake...or a profit, or a physcologist, I'm just struggling to do the best that I can and sharing stories...

thanks hun for the hugs... ;D

And I want to continue hearing your thoughts and stories.  You are so valuable here.  We have gotten to know things about you here, this being some of them.  It's nice to know there is someone who truly listens and tells you her honest feelings.  Not all of our thoughts or feelings are always going to be right.  But, they are right for us!  Sometimes my wording is off and I think I've upset someone, so that makes me feel bad about not being more careful.  I understand how that happens too!

As far as your MIL goes.  She is a woman who truly created a monster.  She may have raised him that way, but when he moved in with his partner for life, I believe there was no reason to go into his home with you and tell him to stop.  No not even after an hour.  Would you have walked into her house and told her husband (your FIL) to stop working on a project?  You have probably already thought about this.  I can see how you would be worried about getting involved again!  I'm in the same boat!  LOL!

HUGE hug flying at you! ;D

right backatcha coco
thanks so much

Hey, I'm so sorry if I sounded critical or brusque! Creme, you mean the world to me and to the site. I was trying to be funny, but I think I must have sounded harsh instead. Some days I can't get on here until I'm too tired to make sense. I'm so so so sorry.

I'm secure in how I raised my kids. They were challenging and we had no help from grandparents or outside resources. We did the absolute very best we could, and they turned out to be amazing adults. DIL is just trying to maneuver her parents into #1 grandparent status ahead of time. :)

Hugs to you all! Thanks for all the support!

No Pen, you didn't sound harsh...
but honestly I feared I hurt your feelings...whew, so glad I didn't...

thanks for letting me know....

Just an off-the-wall comment about "making your life be about anyone," inferring that you don't have a life. Someone said at our last Caregivers Group meeting that she was not ready to make her life be about her husband. I thought afterward that even though I am totally focused on my husband, my life is about me. I have a preference to be with him and find it extremely enjoyable. I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. One point of view seems self-effacing, to me, while the other is self-expressive. 

Odd, why certain hurts come back on a certain day? I truly miss son.

I understood he is busy and work and kids and wife, but not enough to avoid (since that has to be what it is) her family. Plenty of planning goes into making sure they BOTH see her folks and her sisters on a suffocating scale. But, he doesn't make it here to visit and never with her. So, I know I am last on the list, "backseat" but, how is this fair?

I guess these feelings return, when it would be nice to have just one visit without months passing by. I guess because I am alone, I don't exist or matter to them. Wonder if they listen to the greed part in church? This just isn't right. It is my son's call. But, how bad do they think I am to deserve this? Hard not to be resentful.

Dear Renny,
My heart breaks when I read your words.  Sometimes I think the best thing we can do is write it out on here so we can be there for you.  That's what friends are made for....your feelings are felt by us too.  Sending all the love in the whole world!!!

Quote from: luise.volta on February 18, 2010, 11:00:54 AM
Just an off-the-wall comment about "making your life be about anyone," inferring that you don't have a life. Someone said at our last Caregivers Group meeting that she was not ready to make her life be about her husband. I thought afterward that even though I am totally focused on my husband, my life is about me. I have a preference to be with him and find it extremely enjoyable. I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. One point of view seems self-effacing, to me, while the other is self-expressive.

Our view often comes from very different places like that and I agree with you so much Luise.  What a wonderful way you have of thinking!  There are many different views of one particular situation, when you have a group together.  I enjoy the differences and I am proud to be a part of an entire group of women who seem to understand that. 

As an example:  Some people spend their lives "alone," but they don't see it.  Other's would be depressed at the though of living by ones self , vacationing by ones self, sitting at a park and people watching, dining, etc.  If you read Creme's post this morning in hobbies, you will see a different view of "alone!"  This is a beautiful time of solitude where some of us go to view life, whatever that may be.  To be shared is wonderful, but sometimes to be able to appreciate that alone is a gift!  It all depends on how your view of that is!

I like to think of my aloneness as solitude.  It wasn't when I first started out in the place I'm in now, but has grown into that over a period of three years.  Now, I wouldn't trade it for the world and have learned that I'm a pretty beautiful and complex person (something I don't think I saw before).  My view of this one simple word has changed.

There isn't always a right or wrong way to look at something.  It's a choice of how each person is "seeing" that thing they are looking at! 

It's pretty neat that we all can form a group and see things through eachothers eyes!  I believe it expands our awareness.  Maybe I'm an old hippie, but I still see beautiful things and I hope that part of life never goes away.  We are all learning as we live - till the day we leave here!  I hope beyond that! :)

On this site, we are practicing "acceptance, understanding eachother's different ways of seeing things, and loving eachother for that particular way of viewing life, and a world of other opportunities. Thank you for inviting us all into this cocoon!  I hope to continue learning here!

C/C - Yes, I read it and I copied, pasted and printed to out to read again after Val leaves.

Quote from: renny97 on February 18, 2010, 11:20:02 AM
Odd, why certain hurts come back on a certain day? I truly miss son.

I understood he is busy and work and kids and wife, but not enough to avoid (since that has to be what it is) her family. Plenty of planning goes into making sure they BOTH see her folks and her sisters on a suffocating scale. But, he doesn't make it here to visit and never with her. So, I know I am last on the list, "backseat" but, how is this fair?

I guess these feelings return, when it would be nice to have just one visit without months passing by. I guess because I am alone, I don't exist or matter to them. Wonder if they listen to the greed part in church? This just isn't right. It is my son's call. But, how bad do they think I am to deserve this? Hard not to be resentful.

Renny, I'm sorry.  These days creep up on us, unexpected.  Chickie is right.  Start a post on these days, because  ON THESE DAYS you need that support! Don't worry about wording but just say what you feel.  We all have these days.  My day was yesterday, your day is today and who knows how long it will last.  Know in your heart that we are all here for you and are waiting with open hearts.

I'm so sorry you're having a hard day!  This is a big hug for you and I hope you feel it hit your heart!

Renny, you're speaking to the heart of the matter! It's perfectly acceptable to feel down and miss someone who has passed on, but for some reason a mom missing her son who is unavailable due to marriage is seen as inappropriate. This site seems to be the only place we can go for comfort and know we're not going to be judged.

Here's a {{{hug!}}}

How true, Penstamen.....at least we have this site and each other.  There's nothing wrong with us;  we're just Mothers who miss our sons.  But we aren't supposed to feel that way?  It's too much to ask.....the DILs are right, they could take it upon themselves to see us without them.  Of course, I can't imagine how that would make her feel.  If it makes her feel bad, it's not going to happen.

That was lovely how you explained how we all blend our thoughts, fears, and prayers, here, Coco. A place to go, when the world rejects us.

DIL would feel the same as if DS wouldn't go to her parents.

Son, used to come over more. When he did, if the phone rang, he wanted to make sure it wasn't DIL. She's always done that. He is on a time limit here. And, I barely get visits on the radar now. To me, that is pitiful.

If it was both ways, and DIL and son, were too busy to see her folks too (who live 40 more miles away from our area, mind you) I can admit, I'd be happier. But, to pass by on one of two roads that lead to DIL's parents house at least twice a week. GC would often mention spending the night. Or someone else would mention oh, that was at Naaaaana's. This is when son used to kind of make sure he was back from picking them up, to see me. It does hurt. Especially, if I initiated coming over to see GC after a couple months. I still got the "shuffle."

I am so thankful I am understood, here. You have made me feel so welcome. Sometimes, I can't get my words or thoughts together, and I am forgiven for that, too. The DIL subtle manipulation, is so hard to even describe. But, ya feel it.

Then, a "distant" "friend" chooses this time, to not even being considerate or caring or supportive. I did tell her that we were done for good. All there was, was a "raised eyebrow." I said I didn't like her lieing about "taking/her driving me" to my appt. She "doesn't remember" saying she would take me ::). So, it ended the way it started--with lies. Maybe that is what that article meant.

I wonder, too, (doing a lot of that lately), if I am noticing all these phoney people because I have been in survival mode. I can see their games more easily? Or maybe they have just gone on for far too long--it is my "reason, season, and time."

Renny,
I understand your son and DIL's behavior cutting you to the bone like that.  I would feel the same way, knowing they had to pass by my house each day, even worse that you miss them so much and they go 40 miles past your house.  Have you mentioned how hurt you are to your son?

Just know you have true friends here, Renny.  And your right, one of the things that really took me in was the comittment by the women here and the huge hearts they have!  You will always be a part of this group and will not be trampled!  We all have days where the words just don't come across right, or our hearts ache so badly we can barely see in front of us.  On these days, just come in, like Chickie said and start a new post - like I did yesterday.  It's like a white flag to those of us who are here and one of us needs support.  You are one of us too Renny.  Don't you forget that!  ok?

Feel that?  It's me hugging you and patting your back (right behind your heart)! :)

Renny, your wording is right - "distant" friend.  She is very distant, but if she is not supportive to you during a time that you need that, she isn't your friend. 

When it rains, it pours and it all seems to come down at once, doesn't it?  The good part is that this means there is nowhere else to go now, but up!  Something will give, Renny.  God doesn't let a door close without opening a window!  That is so true.  Get out in the sunlight everyday and go for a walk.  You will start feeling different and you may be given a gift, you never know.  Keep your chin up and try not to lose hope, but keep looking for it in everything you do.

You lost a friend, who really wasn't your friend, but you've gained a whole group of friends who like you, support you and invite your words every day, look forward to them even! There you go!  Your first gift...

Have you been "pinged" yet!  Luise's wand works you know!

(((((((((((((((((((((((((Hugs)))))))))))))))))))))))))! Thank YOU!  :)

Nope. But I have seen lots of "pinging" going on in here? I could use a little pixie dust of magic.........zing zang. lol....

Right back at you Renny!!! ((((((HUGS!)))))))

Dear Renny,
I know what you mean about the "constant phone calls" when the son was there.  Non-stop from the DIL alerting him that she is there. Mine would scramble for the phone, actually looking scared.  For Heaven's sake!!!  It's really hard because you know what's going on, you just have to stuff it.

I'm so sorry about your friend....double whammy.  I am really so tired of phoney friends and honestly tired of people having hidden agendas.  Aren't you?  Aren't we all?   

My radar has always been "on" and I know what their motives are, always, but choose to ignore them most of the time.  Sometimes I'm in way too deep before I can get out.  All that  was ignored because I'm constantly second guessing myself and hoping it's not true. It always is true.

I'm hoping you find comfort here among people who have been through exactly what you've been through.  I think you are very strong.

Quote from: renny97 on February 18, 2010, 05:01:10 PM
(((((((((((((((((((((((((Hugs)))))))))))))))))))))))))! Thank YOU!  :)

Nope. But I have seen lots of "pinging" going on in here? I could use a little pixie dust of magic.........zing zang. lol....

I always feel better when our "fairy godmother" comes through with her wise compassion and "pings" me with her wand!  I think it's your turn! :)

Righto! I'm flying low! Here we go! Pinginty, ping, ping ping! Gotcha!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D

There you are!  :) Biiiiiiiiiig Smile! All the hugs, AND pings..wow!