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Problem Solving => Daughter in Laws and/or Son in Laws => Topic started by: justdontunderstand on October 05, 2010, 01:53:49 PM

Title: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: justdontunderstand on October 05, 2010, 01:53:49 PM
We haven't spoken to our new DIL since last December. We have exchanged a few short emails--they seem contrived and businesslike but no "real" connection. Our son has been married for a year now. Since the wedding, the trouble we saw coming has blossomed into  benign neglect. No one yells. No one name calls. We just have minimal contact. It is as though we don't exist for DIL. We are not angry or difficult people. We try to treat others as we would like to be treated.

The way I feel is that for four years before the marriage, I did everything I could to let DIL know we accepted her and were grateful our son had found love. She has remained distant, cool and unresponsive. What more can I do? I don't have the energy nor do I know what else I am suppose to do to break through the barriers. I think she has just the relationship she wants with us. We struggle to keep our relationship going with our son. He has now visited twice without her without explanation of why she doesn't come. We have a general "don't ask policy" when it comes to DIL.

We got through last year's holidays without our son. (They went to her family's home). Is having no expectation for holiday visits the answer? Is that how we cope? Will we finally lose the battle to stay connected to our son because he will need to keep the peace at home by always doing what DIL wants during the holidays and otherwise? Why would someone turn their backs on a loving family who has done them no harm? How do we cope with the loss? Thanks for being there for my vent.
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: barelythere on October 05, 2010, 02:01:04 PM
Quote from: justdontunderstand on October 05, 2010, 01:53:49 PM
We haven't spoken to our new DIL since last December. We have exchanged a few short emails--they seem contrived and businesslike but no "real" connection. Our son has been married for a year now. Since the wedding, the trouble we saw coming has blossomed into  benign neglect. No one yells. No one name calls. We just have minimal contact. It is as though we don't exist for DIL. We are not angry or difficult people. We try to treat others as we would like to be treated.

The way I feel is that for four years before the marriage, I did everything I could to let DIL know we accepted her and were grateful our son had found love. She has remained distant, cool and unresponsive. What more can I do? I don't have the energy nor do I know what else I am suppose to do to break through the barriers. I think she has just the relationship she wants with us. We struggle to keep our relationship going with our son. He has now visited twice without her without explanation of why she doesn't come. We have a general "don't ask policy" when it comes to DIL.

We got through last year's holidays without our son. (They went to her family's home). Is having no expectation for holiday visits the answer? Is that how we cope? Will we finally lose the battle to stay connected to our son because he will need to keep the peace at home by always doing what DIL wants during the holidays and otherwise? Why would someone turn their backs on a loving family who has done them no harm? How do we cope with the loss? Thanks for being there for my vent.

Dear JustdUnderstand,
Your story hurts me too. I wish things like this didn't happen! They hurt too much.  I'm wondering if she set out to make this happen, to make the distance great between you and your son? They can do that.  I know we as Mothers try but sometimes it isn't in the cards for them to be trying too.  It takes two to make a relationship.  I wish I had something more I could say.  What a cold and hard thing to have happen.  Thinking of you.
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: Sassy on October 05, 2010, 05:22:09 PM
QuoteIs having no expectation for holiday visits the answer? Is that how we cope?

That's how my husband and I cope.  We learned from our minister to have no expectations from family.
It has been tremendously helpful.  And I am not a Mother or MIL.

QuoteWill we finally lose the battle to stay connected to our son because he will need to keep the peace at home by always doing what DIL wants during the holidays and otherwise?

If there are other ways you can stay connected to your son, other than seeing him on holidays, that might be more fulfilling.
Emails, phone chats, visits at other times than holidays are ways to stay connected.  Celebrating the second Saturday in October isn't a holiday, but it is a day - and an opportunity to share something.

QuoteWhy would someone turn their backs on a loving family who has done them no harm?

Do you think your son feels he is turning his back on you?  If you do still have an expectation of him coming for a holiday, then I think there is a connection between son and family, for you to entertain that expectation.  He may not be facing you as he once did, but he may not feel he has his back to you.  If he's skewed in his stance, but there's still a little love there from him, though not as much as you would like the way you would like, then focus on that little love.  It's still love.

One thing I've had to learn, and been thinking about a lot lately, is to accept the love people have to give, even if it's not the love I would like to have from them, in the form I would like to have it.  It is an adjustment.  It does take time.  Does being hit up for "loans" (cash gifts) feel like love? No.  Does getting a call on my DH's birthday feel like love?  It can if we want it to, I suppose.  If we leave out the request for money part of the call in our mind's focus, then we can say "hey, it's a birthday call" and take whatever good we can find in that.  If that's what someone has to give, I don't think it's it my power to change that.  And there's a certain releif as well.

It truly sounds like you do the very best you can do.  Making your plans known, keeping an open door.  Sometimes there is peace in knowing you truly did all you can do, gave the best you had to give at the time,  and have no regrets of your own.

Wishing you peace.
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: barelythere on October 05, 2010, 05:30:17 PM
Quote from: Sassy on October 05, 2010, 05:22:09 PM
QuoteIs having no expectation for holiday visits the answer? Is that how we cope?

That's how my husband and I cope.  We learned from our minister to have no expectations from family.
It has been tremendously helpful.  And I am not a Mother or MIL.

QuoteWill we finally lose the battle to stay connected to our son because he will need to keep the peace at home by always doing what DIL wants during the holidays and otherwise?

If there are other ways you can stay connected to your son, other than seeing him on holidays, that might be more fulfilling.
Emails, phone chats, visits at other times than holidays are ways to stay connected.  Celebrating the second Saturday in October isn't a holiday, but it is a day - and an opportunity to share something.

QuoteWhy would someone turn their backs on a loving family who has done them no harm?

Do you think your son feels he is turning his back on you?  If you do still have an expectation of him coming for a holiday, then I think there is a connection between son and family, for you to entertain that expectation.  He may not be facing you as he once did, but he may not feel he has his back to you.  If he's skewed in his stance, but there's still a little love there from him, though not as much as you would like the way you would like, then focus on that little love.  It's still love.

One thing I've had to learn, and been thinking about a lot lately, is to accept the love people have to give, even if it's not the love I would like to have from them, in the form I would like to have it.  It is an adjustment.  It does take time.  Does being hit up for "loans" (cash gifts) feel like love? No.  Does getting a call on my DH's birthday feel like love?  It can if we want it to, I suppose.  If we leave out the request for money part of the call in our mind's focus, then we can say "hey, it's a birthday call" and take whatever good we can find in that.  If that's what someone has to give, I don't think it's it my power to change that.  And there's a certain releif as well.

It truly sounds like you do the very best you can do.  Making your plans known, keeping an open door.  Sometimes there is peace in knowing you truly did all you can do, gave the best you had to give at the time,  and have no regrets of your own.

Wishing you peace.

Sassy,
I just want to say that I think you are so kind in your writing.  I thank you for that. We are a sad and hurt bunch and don't know what to do half the time.  When we have someone as kind as you are, it's a shock but a nice one.  Thank you so much.   :)
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: Keys Girl on October 05, 2010, 06:25:43 PM
My happiness grows in direct proportion to my acceptance, and in inverse proportion to my expectations. Acceptance is the key to everything................ Michael J. Fox

Sassy, it sounds like your DIL is playing the same game of "he's mine now" that so many of these new DILs play.

I would consider starting a new holiday tradition, offer to include them and have a deadline where you need a "Yes" or "No" from your son and DIL.  If you don't get an answer by the deadline, I would make new plans and not sit around waiting for them to show up or be polite.  I think the battle has been "won" and now it's a waiting game.  With a 50% divorce rate, who knows your son might be banging on your door soon looking to sleep on your couch one of these days.  There are lots of us in the same boat, sadly, but since this "warfare" doesn't use bullets we can move on and be as happy as possible.

There are lots of people who could use some extra love in their lives around the holidays.  Sounds like you have a lot to give, I hope you find some people who will accept it from you and appreciate you.
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: Pen on October 05, 2010, 06:29:34 PM
I think a lot of the hurt and frustration over the holidays comes from knowing that DS is spending the time with DIL's FOO. If DS & DIL were on a cruise alone it wouldn't bother me so much, but to know that DIL's FOO always gets first pick is a bit much. Our DIL's FOO would take it all if DS let them - he finally got them to agree to an EOY arrangement for "the big day," although they all take a luxury cruise every winter holiday no matter whose year it is. We can't afford to bankroll such an extravaganza so here we sit. DH & I would go somewhere alone but we have a disabled adult child who wouldn't have a holiday if we did that.

We don't have any other family so it really hurts to be left behind. My mom passed away quite a few years ago. DF joined up with SM's family when he married her; she cut him from the herd and he went along with it, sneaking out for a visit on rare occasions telling us, "Don't tell _______! She's really jealous of you guys!" They actually say that they can't see us because it's a "family holiday." Oh, sorry...whaaa?

It's hard for me not to feel sad during the holidays now that DS has also joined another family. How do the DIL/SM FOOs justify this stuff? If I were in their position I'd feel horrible, but they just feel entitled and it doesn't seem to bother them a bit.
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: barelythere on October 05, 2010, 06:52:38 PM
Quote from: Pen on October 05, 2010, 06:29:34 PM
I think a lot of the hurt and frustration over the holidays comes from knowing that DS is spending the time with DIL's FOO. If DS & DIL were on a cruise alone it wouldn't bother me so much, but to know that DIL's FOO always gets first pick is a bit much. Our DIL's FOO would take it all if DS let them - he finally got them to agree to an EOY arrangement for "the big day," although they all take a luxury cruise every winter holiday no matter whose year it is. We can't afford to bankroll such an extravaganza so here we sit. DH & I would go somewhere alone but we have a disabled adult child who wouldn't have a holiday if we did that.

We don't have any other family so it really hurts to be left behind. My mom passed away quite a few years ago. DF joined up with SM's family when he married her; she cut him from the herd and he went along with it, sneaking out for a visit on rare occasions telling us, "Don't tell _______! She's really jealous of you guys!" They actually say that they can't see us because it's a "family holiday." Oh, sorry...whaaa?

It's hard for me not to feel sad during the holidays now that DS has also joined another family. How do the DIL/SM FOOs justify this stuff? If I were in their position I'd feel horrible, but they just feel entitled and it doesn't seem to bother them a bit.

Pen, this might not help at all but I think right now, they are taking advantage of the FOO's wealth and ability to do things they probably can't do. It's enticing to your son but it will grow old after awhile.  He will look around one day and realize that he left some great people behind.  It's not going to be good for them when he realizes all this. 
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: cremebrulee on October 06, 2010, 04:15:27 AM
First, I wouldn't ask my son questions about what they are going to do, if there were problems...it might make him even back off more, from guilt and hurt...(I really believe most of your sons are hurting just as much as you are)

I would directly connect with DIL.  I would plan a Christmas dinner, before Christmas, maybe the Sat. Night before, and ask her directly, not son, if they would like to attend. 

I would ask them about 3 weeks before and if she says yes, then tell her the time, etc.  I think sometimes DIL's would like to be the person MIL asks?  Maybe not, but believe it would make her feel somewhat more important, instead of MIL going to son and asking him?  Explain to her, that you don't want to make her feel obligated to come, however, the invitation is there and if they can't make it, you'd like know ASAP, as you'd then make other plans.  It doesn't hurt to try int?

If she see-saws around, then make other plans with hubby and go...and a Christmas Cruise sounds fantastic...there is nothing more invigerating then going on a Christmas vacation if you can, to get away from all the hustle and bussel.  I did it alot after my son was grown, to simply get away from all that family running around from place to place.  It was really an excuse for me to get away, and it ended up being so much fun. 

I know a gal at work who did it with her family( not her kids, but her extended family) ....everyone made they're own reservations, paid for they're own trip and went, and no one bought anyone gifts, that was they're Christmas gifts to each other.  She just stopped by my desk yesterday and shared with me, that she wished they were doing it again this year...just hubby and her, and were actually contemplating it. 

I've gone to the Bahamas many times or planned a Christmas Vacation by the ocean, b/c I love it so much....I've talked about this so much, to many of my friends, that a friend who just lost her husband is going to do it...she just went to the beach this past weekend by herself for a trial run....and she loved it....the peace and quiet she said was great....

I think we put way to much emphasis on the Holidays...yes, if your family is getting along fine, it's great, however, if your having problems like many of the women here, I would plan something just for me, and for hubby....don't sit home by yourselves, start a new tradition and don't put so much emphasis on your children fulfilling your happiness over the holidays...they won't live up to your expectations....they can't for one reason or other...but be do diligent and very very dedicated to the idea of making a change....

Many resorts put on a lovely Christmas for people who just want to get away...or rent a cabine or villa in a resort for the Christmas holidays...I, myself, find a destination I'd like to spend that time at, and then I start looking on line for a privet home to rent....they are a bit more reasonable in price then the resorts...we owe ourselves vacations....getaways....there is so much beauty out there to see, why stay stuck in a tradition which isn't working and just makes you sad....? 

One thing I must implement again...you cannot, base your happiness on the expectations of your children to fulfill your dreams, be it holidays or otherwise, make your own...don't depend on anyone else but you and the tools you have to work with, and be bound and determined...to start new happy traditions...you are how you feel, and if you think your going to be unhappy, then you will be.

I don't see my kids over the holidays either....either on Thanksgiving or Christmas....they choose to be by themselves with they're daughter, not running around to anyone else's home, but getting up when they choose, opening gifts when they choose, and allowing they're daughter to play with her gifts...then they plan a dinner together, be it at they're home or going out to eat....

I could very easily sit around and sulk, and put myself in a bad place b/c I'm alone, but I don't...I make plans...if you don't make plans to look forward to, the latter will happen.  You must make plans...and plan something YOU can look forward to....

Hugs
Creme

Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: Butterfly Journey on October 06, 2010, 07:18:16 AM
My thoughts are with you. I'm not a mother in law but we have a similar situation within my husband's side. He's brother married a couple of months ago and his wife hasn't attempted to socialize with our family for about 3 yrs now. They're wedding day was terrible...story for another time! It's been very hard on my in laws...mostly, my mil. My bil hasn't joined a family holiday for over 2 yrs now! It breaks our hearts but we don't want to rock the boat. It's his choice to attend or not...with or without his wife...and adding pressure makes the situation worse for him at home. My only suggestion is "open invite" with no strings! It's not easy but it keeps you neutral in the situation. In other words...you're not giving your dil reasons to not attend and you're supporting your son in his decisions. My heart is with you!
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: LaurieS on October 06, 2010, 07:36:40 AM
Quote from: Pen on October 05, 2010, 06:29:34 PM
I think a lot of the hurt and frustration over the holidays comes from knowing that DS is spending the time with DIL's FOO. If DS & DIL were on a cruise alone it wouldn't bother me so much, but to know that DIL's FOO always gets first pick is a bit much.

You're correct Pen, that is where the hurt does begin for many.  If the younger married couple chooses to spend time with parents/family over the holidays and there is no physical reason that it can only be with one side then yes  there are liable to be hurt feelings.  At one time my dil tried to tell me that it was her families tradition to spend Christmas and the eve of it together and that she would like to continue (with her family that is).  I asked her if my son ever mentioned any of his Christmases past?  Between you and me it doesn't take that rocket scientist to know that we were probably together as well.  But in her world, it's about her first, and so be it.

I'm not going to refrain from asking my son at appropriate times what their plans are if I need to know in order to complete  my plans.  If he and his wife are there when the question arises, I'll ask both.  I'm not going to play the games with the dil who's first question would be "Are you doing something special?" as in, are you planning a trip? She will suddenly feel that she and dh does need that time with his family after all.  I've never had to 'buy' my kids love while they were growing up and I can't see me doing it now. 

I refuse to be a part of the game.  Matter of fact we did take a New Year's cruise a couple of years ago.  Since it was made perfectly clear that we would not see the kids until the 27th because all the previous holiday days were being reserved for her family traditions.  Then of course they then had to rush back since my ds is in the  military so our time with them would be limited.  I asked DIL what her new year and surrounding plans would be as I needed someone to watch the dogs.  When she realized that  we were taking the cruise she became excited, and well it's a shame that dh couldn't attend but that she loves cruises and this would give her time to catch up with dh's siblings since they did not see them over Christmas.  I believe her feelings were actually hurt upon realizing that she was not being included on the cruise plans.  I probably shouldn't have been but was a little amazed how deeply she valued family, but was willing to even dump her husband to take a cruise and tolerate us in the process. 

So yes Pen, feeling that you're the "other family" does make you hurt and angry at times.  Once again it's the lack of respect.. When my ds asked us to understand we tried, but we aren't trying any longer and now we are  simply stating in words the obvious, our feelings have been hurt .. When ds is beating around the bush about upcoming plans, he's met with a 'whatever' attitude.  When we were invited by them to attend a festival but found out after all plans were made that she had invited her family to join us (yet again) we simply canceled our plans and headed a different direction.   It does not hurt any less but I'm making it perfectly clear that we are not simply pawns in her game of life.
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: cremebrulee on October 06, 2010, 08:11:26 AM
Yanno, last year I had the most awesome Christmas dinner

I had 15 people attend....people who I knew were going to be by themselves and I made a prime rib and turkey....and we had a ball....

one of my Asian girlfriends called me, b/c they always go sking over the Christmas holiday with they're daughter, and they asked me if I was going to be around, they'd like to come for a visit, and I invited them to join us for Christmas dinner....
Yes, it's hard b/c your special someone's can't be there....however, you have the power to still make it a wonderful Holiday if you want....

Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: barelythere on October 06, 2010, 08:16:58 AM
Quote from: cremebrulee on October 06, 2010, 08:11:26 AM
Yanno, last year I had the most awesome Christmas dinner

I had 15 people attend....people who I knew were going to be by themselves and I made a prime rib and turkey....and we had a ball....

one of my Asian girlfriends called me, b/c they always go sking over the Christmas holiday with they're daughter, and they asked me if I was going to be around, they'd like to come for a visit, and I invited them to join us for Christmas dinner....
Yes, it's hard b/c your special someone's can't be there....however, you have the power to still make it a wonderful Holiday if you want....

That is wonderful, Creme.  That's turning lemons in the lemonade.  But also, for me, it's like viewing some fabulous treasure and having no one who I loved there with me.  But, you have to do what you have to do for yourself.  Kind of like a facsimile.
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: luise.volta on October 06, 2010, 11:00:52 AM
It often hard to get that they (our adult kids) have created a new family unit and they get to make the rules. We may like them or we may not but it's their right...and they may learn a bit in the process...(or they may not.) Sending love...
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: erma on October 06, 2010, 01:06:17 PM
i like what keysgirl said, "start a new tradition" i think that's what i will do this year. give them a deadline, and then "stick to my guns" so to speak. i will surely miss my GS though, seeing his little face when he runs to my open arms, giggling, saying Nana, Nana!  that's what makes my world go around.  :)
as far as no expectations, well i disagree. i expect my son to treat us with respect and not "turn his back on us". he can be mad, glad, sad, or indifferent, but we treat him and our DIL with the utmost respect, and we in return expect the same. its when we don't get that respect, that we feel hurt. i may not like what their decision is but i will respect it, just as i would expect the same from them. maybe i am outdated, but i will always expect to be treated with respect by my grown children.
hugs
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: barelythere on October 06, 2010, 01:22:14 PM
Quote from: erma on October 06, 2010, 01:06:17 PM
i like what keysgirl said, "start a new tradition" i think that's what i will do this year. give them a deadline, and then "stick to my guns" so to speak. i will surely miss my GS though, seeing his little face when he runs to my open arms, giggling, saying Nana, Nana!  that's what makes my world go around.  :)
as far as no expectations, well i disagree. i expect my son to treat us with respect and not "turn his back on us". he can be mad, glad, sad, or indifferent, but we treat him and our DIL with the utmost respect, and we in return expect the same. its when we don't get that respect, that we feel hurt. i may not like what their decision is but i will respect it, just as i would expect the same from them. maybe i am outdated, but i will always expect to be treated with respect by my grown children.
hugs

Erma, you're not outdated, you are a nice, kind lady, I can tell.  Bless you.  Hurts like nothing else on earth.  Mine are not out of our lives but honestly because they have married such different people, they are different.  One of our sons seems happy and for that, I'm happy.  The other one, I just don't know what it is.  I think he has bent over backwards for his wife, even to the point of changing jobs a million times to keep from being promoted, which meant moving--  her parents were against that. 
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: luise.volta on October 06, 2010, 02:45:28 PM
The problem with expectations is how we feel when they aren't met. Sending love...
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: Pen on October 06, 2010, 04:47:01 PM
LaurieS, great post. Common courtesy keeps the civil in civilisation.


Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: free_at_last on October 06, 2010, 05:12:51 PM
A bank teller is just doing her job, when you work in any kind of customer service job, you are paid to smile and be nice, no matter how bad the customer treats you.  I don't want my adult kids to act nice to me just because I require them to do that.  When they were little I expected them to behave and listen to me just because I'm their mom....now that they are young adults, that's not my job anymore.  I want them to respect me but I know that will only happen if I respect them, too, meaning respecting their boundaries, respecting the person they choose to spend their life with, respecting their wants and needs, etc. 

As a mother I love my kids unconditionally, but as an adult daughter I expect respect for my choices and wishes from my mother (and my dear father when he was still with us).  Adult kids aren't babies that need their mommy anymore, thank goodness...they are adults that can be happy building a life of their own or with someone else.  If I can't respect that, then I don't see how I can expect respect from them, either.  Does that mean I have to give in to their every request?  Oh heck no, just like I can't expect them to give in to all my requests. 

What it boils down to is, when our kids grow up we have to let them be the adults that they are.  Of course we still love them with all our hearts every minute of every day, but we can't let our life revolve around them like it used to when they needed our constant care.  Whether it's focusing on a spouse, a hobby, a career, or whatever....there is life out there beyond our grown-up kids. 
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: Pen on October 06, 2010, 05:37:46 PM
Free, I agree. I think most of the MILs here understand that concept as well. Although I can't speak for anyone else, I can assure you that my life most definitely does not revolve around DS. DH & I respect DS and DIL as adults, and have from day one, but DIL started treating us with disdain on the wedding day. In fact, DIL's FOO does the smothery-baby behavior and it hasn't affected the amount of time DS & DIL spend with them one bit (they see them and/or talk daily.) We did everything right in that regard and are treated more as casual friends than family.

IMHO, common courtesy has a place in family relationships. We would never invite ourselves over to DS/DIL's house, but they feel free to drop in unannounced or to call at the last minute and invite themselves over to our house. That doesn't happen often, but still...They don't feel the need to let us know about holiday plans until the last minute which is just rude - if one is invited somewhere, it's polite to RSVP in a timely manner so as not to inconvenience the hosts, even if they're dunky old mom & dad. And it's impolite to accept an invitation to dinner and then stop off at DIL's mom's beforehand to eat a full meal. They would never treat DIL's FOO that way, and I do hope for equal courtesy (don't want to use the dreaded "e word.")
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: luise.volta on October 06, 2010, 06:06:32 PM
Yes, courtesy is wonderful. We just get into trouble when we expect it. We don't know what to expect...we can only hope. Sending love...
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: LaurieS on October 06, 2010, 06:49:42 PM
If I am respectful and courteous to someone/anyone, yes I expect to be treated the same. The fact that my kids are now adults makes me expect it even more.  When they were children I accepted bouts of immaturity and all that implies. As adults they expect a certain behavior from us and we from them. 

No one here stated that any adult child should not have the ability to be themselves and make their own decisions.  Just because the kids have become adults it does not mean that the most basic social skills should be overlooked simply because you are interacting with your or your spouses family. 

Pen brought up a couple of excellent examples and I agree when she said,"IMHO, common courtesy has a place in family relationships".  Showing respect and courtesy to only one side of the family isn't really respectful to either in the long run.

Luise... I do not totally agree with your statement.. This is how I think it should read: Courtesy is wonderful.  We have the right to expect it, but may get into trouble when forced to demand it.
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: luise.volta on October 06, 2010, 08:22:40 PM
You don't eve have to agree with any of my posts.,,but this one, you misread, I think. Sending love...
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: free_at_last on October 06, 2010, 08:32:34 PM
Pen, I absolutely agree common courtesy is called for in all relationships, and I agree that not letting you know until the last minute about holiday plans is incredibly rude.  I have a cousin that routinely does that to my Grandmother, the rest of us all think it's awful.  That's not the type of behavior I was referring to at all. 

I think it's always dangerous to turn anything into a competition or comparison with a DIL's (or anyone's) family.  Common courtesy and equal courtesy are not the same things at all.  Keeping score and expecting equal time, or equal anything, is only going to cause heartache every time. Different families have different dynamics, and it's impossible to keep everything equal due to all kinds of factors. Forcing or requiring equality (in effect, disrespecting their decisions on how to balance their families) will likely only cause things to become more and more lopsided, due to the bad feelings that it creates. 
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: Pen on October 06, 2010, 11:50:05 PM
And when do my family and I get respect? Why do they get to plan and we do not? We're not doing the forcing here - they have taken charge and plan everything. We get the leftovers.

Equal time would be great, but we know better than to "demand" it. We do hope for equal respect, however. We deserve it just the same as DIL's family. No more, no less.
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: Sassy on October 07, 2010, 07:17:32 AM
Barely There, thank you for your sweet words. I wrote a reply earlier but it appears to have disappeared into the ether.  Its that the kindness of everyone here is balm to me, (and to my husband, when he gets to checks it out).

Quote The problem with expectations is how we feel when they aren't met. Sending love...

This is exactly what our minister said to us over a year ago when we were going through preparations for our wedding (which some here may remember).  I expected courtesy and politeness.  It took me a while to get exactly what he meant.  I thought, how can expecting that be expecting "too much" from family.

Expecting courtesy and politeness from strangers has no relative risk to our feelings. Because if our expectations are not met, it may be a bit shocking, or disconcerting, or a bit of a bummer.  But unless it's vile or violent, there is usually no lasting shame or pain in it for us.  We are generally able to separate ourselves from the actions of strangers as not likely to be a significant reflection of the value of us.  If a sales assistant, or the person in queue behind us is rude to us, we can generally accept that the rudeness is her problem.  "What a rude woman" we may think.  We don't overthink "What did we do to make her be rude for us, when we were only being nice to her." So how we feel when that expectation from a stranger isn't met, is bearable for us.

Having expectations from family, any expectations at all, when those are not met, can be so devastating!  It takes time to retrain the mind.  When a birthday approaches and you haven't heard from a family member in a while, (or even if you have) it's so tempting, even natural,  to think "I can't wait to see what funny card my mom sends this year."  Not a big expectation, but having it unmet can hurt to the core. So you learn to say to yourself  "I probably won't hear from her, although it would be great if we did."  It does work to decrease the pain in our lives.  It is not easy.  I am still learning.

When holidays are coming and you find a new recipe, it's so tempting to think "Grandma will love having her favorite vegetable brushed with olive oil, oven-roasted and served with a hollandaise, we can serve it when she comes for Christmas supper." Grandma gave us her special china as our wedding present, the one she served all her holiday dinners on.   She has said she loves my cooking, and she came to previous holiday dinners before we were married.  But it turned out my expecting her to come for Christmas was a big mistake.  She felt it would be disloyal to her daughter; she had her reasons which were right for her. I don't like it, but I do accept it. This year, I have come to more fully understand what our minister has said. 

I will not have expectations for people, family, who have let me down more than once in the past.  Not even for politeness, because how I feel when those expectations aren't met is too painful for me.  I accept she may say that she is coming and then decide that morning not to come.  I will invite Grandma, and yes, I hope Grandma will come, but I will not let myself  imagine her face at our table.  No one else likes that vegetable, and I will not be preparing and serving it.
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: FAFE on October 07, 2010, 07:19:32 AM
Many years ago when my siblings and I all started our own families, moved to various places, etc., my mother came up with this rule, for lack of better words.  Our family would celebrate Thanksgiving the Saturday after Thanksgiving and Christmas the Saturday before Christmas.  This still works for our family.  She knew that we would always have another "family" that also wanted to celebrate with us.  We are still doing this, many years after her death.  There's not question about when, where, etc.  Those that can make it, great.  If not, hope to see you next year.  My two sons hardly ever get here for Thanksgiving, but do try to make it for Christmas.  They generally miss my side of the family, but are here for husband's side. 

As long as she was alive, my immediate family would alternate Mother's Day and Easter.  Now that my mother is no longer alive, I host Mother's Day for both sides of the family. 

Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: LaurieS on October 07, 2010, 07:29:22 AM
Anna... I think it's hard to be placed in that position.  Of course when a new DIL comes into a family, she will have come from her own traditions and possible want to begin something new with her dh.  But it is definitely lopsided when when she can only see her side of the family in the equation.  Now some here have said that their own dh's have opted to exclude his family from his life, that would be his decision... but I don't think you are talking about the extreme case where one side of the family is now nonexistent. I don't feel that you are trying to compete with your DIL's family, being hurt by total exclusion is not a form of competition. 

We were fortunate as my families were close by.  We always had special morning Christmastime with my immediate family, then the grandparents etc would come later in the morning and we would have special time with them as well before the eating began.  The guest list often changed since neither I or my dh were the only children in the family. Our home was always open and Christmas day has always been a truly blessed day.  We've had exchange students, elderly friends who no longer have any family, and our own families together.  On a side note, it doesn't matter whose house was used, my IL's and parents enjoyed watching the kids in their own home playing and setting up new gifts and I happened to have the large house.

To me all this should be easy enough if everyone would try for a moment to put themselves into the hearts of those who touch our worlds.

I would talk to your son and dil if you are comfortable, explain how much it would mean to be included and to be able to see your grandchildren experience this magical day.
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: Pen on October 07, 2010, 07:42:26 AM
Thanks Anna for understanding. If it was just a matter of DIL & DS wanting to make new traditions with their children I would support them 100+%. That's not the case here. DIL's FOO cannot let go, and neither can she. Why is that OK but us wanting to spend a little time with DS & DIL isn't?

I hope you and your family come to a happy compromise. If everyone could just be reasonable and kind it would help so much.

LaurieS, I totally agree with your post. Here's to compassion and being sensible!
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: cremebrulee on October 07, 2010, 07:55:26 AM
Pen,
I've very very surprised, that her family doesn't invite you, knowing this full well....and perhaps that is where she gets it from, total disregard....

I used to have dinners and invite both sides of the family....then, we'd rent tables and chairs and empty our our large double living room and make a huge dinning room out of it...

I don't understand how families can exclude each other like this....

Yanno, even when my DIL and I were not getting along, her own mother invited me to a Christmas celebration dinner party?

Have you ever planned a christmas dinner and invited all of them?  would it be worth trying?

Creme
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: Pen on October 07, 2010, 07:35:37 PM
Hey Creme, it sounds like a blast at your house! I'm too shy to invite them all to my house since they have a huge, beautiful home and ours is much smaller and funkier. I'd be mortified. When DIL comes here she criticizes our appliances, our furniture, etc.
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: cremebrulee on October 08, 2010, 04:39:43 AM
Quote from: Pen on October 07, 2010, 07:35:37 PM
Hey Creme, it sounds like a blast at your house! I'm too shy to invite them all to my house since they have a huge, beautiful home and ours is much smaller and funkier. I'd be mortified. When DIL comes here she criticizes our appliances, our furniture, etc.

Hey Pen, yes, we did have fun and since I'm not going away this Christmas, looking forward to having the same....thank you....

Hun, listen, be proud of who you are and what you have, you've worked very hard for everything, and know, you are a very special person and human being....you are significant in who you are and what you have, you have purpose in this life as we all do....believe in yourself..unfortunately, DIL only sees value in "things" and that Pen, is really very sad...so what if your home is smaller and funkier, there is a whole lot of love there...and she knows this, that is why she critizes you.  Personally, I think she is jealous, cuz she wants to be like you but doesn't know how...so, in order to make herself feel better about herself, she trys to make you feel inferior....

People always have a reason for doing and saying things...and if someone is trying purposely to hurt you, it's b/c there is a definciency and they are not fulfilled within themselves...candidly, they are jealous...and want center stage and will do anything to get it....

Maybe if you can understand why she's saying these things it will help you be able to deal with it more, I don't know, just a suggestion but here goes...

The first thing to know is that a happy, self confident, person does not put others down. They might provide constructive criticism but they won't put others down. This tells you a lot about the person who criticizes you. Some people are very negative about others because:
1.  they need to make themselves feel like they're in control or more powerful or to cover up their own insecurities
2.  they've experienced a trauma of their own in the past and they don't know how to deal with the pain so they'll hurt others as a defense mechanism.

People's outburts against you will probably reveal to you just how unhappy and disillusioned and frustrated that person is with life, and that's their problem, not yours. Knowing this can go a long way to being able to detach from the comments. If you know it has more to do with the person making the comments than about you, it makes it far easier not feel hurt by what's been said.

If you take their comments to heart and let them fester inside of you then you've taken on their anger. Just let it go. You don't need it.

There is a great saying, "spirit of the stairs". It's all those comments and comebacks you think of later that you wished you'd said to the person at the time. But, really, it's no use sinking to that person's level. That's what they want. They want to get a reaction out of you, they want you to feel bad and their intent quite likely was to hurt you. So, by responding with similar put downs against them really only plays into their plan and ends up hurting yourself. You also don't want to end up with regrets later over what you said in anger. So, what can you say? Tell her while you smile kindly... "Thank you for your opinion"  A response which will throw most criticizers off is to simply say, "Thank you for your opinion" and then just leave it at that. This effectively ends the conversation. They're waiting for you to respond with anger or a comeback of your own and when you don't, there's nothing left for them to say.

Remember Pen, someone who ciricizies, is merely a very insecure person who needs to make themselves feel better about themselves by putting you down...in all truth, they are very lonely people, who bully others to make themselves feel important....

Hope something I've written here has helped...

Hugs
Creme



Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: cremebrulee on October 08, 2010, 05:01:01 AM
QuoteFAFE
Now that my mother is no longer alive, I host Mother's Day for both sides of the family.

Hi Fafe and welcome

I think that is a very lovely thing to do for your family and inlaws....it brings everyone together at the same time, saves a lot of running around for all concerned and they can all be together for a while on the holiday....

and I bet they appreciate your efforts..... :D
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: luise.volta on October 08, 2010, 07:00:35 AM
Well put, Creme!

"Someone who criticizes, is merely a very insecure person who needs to make themselves feel better about themselves by putting you down...in all truth, they are very lonely people, who bully others to make themselves feel important...."
Title: Re: How to Cope With the Upcoming Holidays?
Post by: Pen on October 08, 2010, 07:44:31 AM
Quote from: cremebrulee on October 08, 2010, 04:39:43 AM
Quote from: Pen on October 07, 2010, 07:35:37 PM
Hey Creme, it sounds like a blast at your house! I'm too shy to invite them all to my house since they have a huge, beautiful home and ours is much smaller and funkier. I'd be mortified. When DIL comes here she criticizes our appliances, our furniture, etc.


Hun, listen, be proud of who you are and what you have, you've worked very hard for everything, and know, you are a very special person and human being....you are significant in who you are and what you have, you have purpose in this life as we all do....believe in yourself..unfortunately, DIL only sees value in "things" and that Pen, is really very sad...so what if your home is smaller and funkier, there is a whole lot of love there...and she knows this, that is why she critizes you.  Personally, I think she is jealous, cuz she wants to be like you but doesn't know how...so, in order to make herself feel better about herself, she trys to make you feel inferior....

People always have a reason for doing and saying things...and if someone is trying purposely to hurt you, it's b/c there is a definciency and they are not fulfilled within themselves...candidly, they are jealous...and want center stage and will do anything to get it....


Remember Pen, someone who ciricizies, is merely a very insecure person who needs to make themselves feel better about themselves by putting you down...in all truth, they are very lonely people, who bully others to make themselves feel important....

Hope something I've written here has helped...

Hugs
Creme

Hi Creme, you are so sweet. Just so you know, I am not bothered by DIL's comments - I know we work hard and I like our home and lifestyle. Fancy living is fabulous, but not for us (love a getaway now and again, but couldn't do it full-time, LOL) and we're OK with that. We know who we are. However, inviting people over who would clearly be uncomfortable is not conducive to a pleasant evening. DIL's FOO snubbed us at an event we all attended & DIL went through a period of not wanting to be around us because, in her words, she "just doesn't like the ILs."

I honestly don't think she's insecure, or that she's jealous of who we are; I think she just doesn't like the fact that her DH, our DS, has any ties other than to her and her family. DIL may also be afraid that our DS doesn't fall far enough from the tree, so to speak. Her FOO have a strong bond and really enjoy being together. They're smart, hardworking, & fun-loving, as well as materialistic, snobby and rude.

The holidays will come, and we'll all get through one way or the other. It's hard not to compare reality with the images of the "perfect holidays" we take in from the media, friends, cards, store decor, etc., etc. If we can't provide it we may feel "less than." It's easy to forget about the real, good things that truly define the season.