After much support and gained confidence from you all, I was wondering how I deal with DIL's upcoming b'day next month and future events?
I planned on sending a card and gift card just to acknowledge. But, what do I do when invited to GC's b'day parties? My only sanity, is being completely away from her family. But, I know, it will start a further "chain" of hate by all. I cannot change or help that they don't consider a GC's birthday sacred and continue to use it as a means to verbally attack me with name-calling.
This is first DIL's b'day since I just gave card last year [late]. That created such an uproar from her family, that ultimately, brought me to say something about their treatment of me to son. I realize, the card issue, gave them "reasons" in their "minds" to justify their continual verbal abuse. In other words, I kinda helped them out. But, knowing they will do whatever they please, anyway. I think, now, it was the beginning for me (whether I really realized it or not), to bring me to reality.
It was probably not adult, to send late card, but I was reacting from years of hurt. I would almost be in tears after every b'day or holiday. Many times, I would say I wasn't feeling well and had to leave...(not too far from truth). Once, I was in their house, and the fake greetings were exchanged, then, it wouldn't be long before their insults would "fly."
They loved it, when I was out of work for awhile. I took a part-time job, to get by. They wouldn't even say, "hello" before asking, "Got a job yet?" Even on my b'day. And, then they would chuckle. Ah, we "gotcha." We are "perfect." I am man, and I retired early and live off wife. Good for you.
So, will it be just sending cards? If DIL and GC never visit, how bad should I feel? That seems to be okay?
Renny,
These people sound plain crazy! They actually berate you verbally?
My MIL leaves early from my family functions as well and makes any excuse not to go, but my family is so nice to her, and are generally fun and outgoing all the time. My mom is a saint and is always trying to get my MIL gifts and take pictures with her and my sister's MIL as well. I'm not sure why she doesn't even like being around my parents.
I know others who know your story better can give you more advice, but I just want you to know that I'm sending good thoughts your way so that you can figure out exactly what you need to do. Sorry to hear that you are treated poorly.
Yes, Carmexx, that is the norm.
They do what "appears" as procedurely correct; cards, loving family, and church. Meanwhile, they are so domineering, call me names, and whisper from DIL, she would give me a "big shove down the stairs." That was "supposed" to be a joke (after I finally told son). My thought is why did she feel she had to whisper a "joke"? So, this is my first stance against years of this. I would literally say, "Hail, Mary" before I went into their house. It was sooo upsetting. I tried to be civil to her family for my GC's sake, but she was overhearing and repeating some of their "spew" and I could see a change in her, too. We were so close before.
Then, they all rallied around me being late with card for DIL's b'day. Not that they ever "needed" a reason! It seemed to escalate after that...and I will not tolerate any of that for any reason now.
But, if GC are being trained to hate, then, nothing I can do. Since her family likes to "joke" at other's expense, so much.
Renny, I'm not an expert, but if it were me I would do just what I felt comfortable with. If you want to go, you can always make it brief, and if or when things start getting insulting - it's just time for you to leave. You have other things to do that you enjoy and you don't enjoy being treated that way. You are there for the baby's birthday. That's all!
Maybe if they saw that you didn't stay and take that treatment it would help. Who knows how people like that think?
I think you've come a very long way! You're going to have doubts and things are always going to pop up and hurt you occasionally. You just be strong and loving and no matter what - when you get home you will feel so good about yourself! That's when you need a pat on the back! A big one! You are strong enough to be loving and show up in the face of all that stress, but respectful enough of yourself to know when to leave. Because ultimately, you don't deserve that treatment - so I look at that as the "welcome mat being withdrawn." Oops, it time to go.
Reward yourself when you get home - no matter what happens... You are showing strength in yourself by going and that's big! By reward I mean do something special that you like - make yourself a cup of coffee - or better yet, treat yourself to a cup of starbucks and sit down to enjoy the environment at the starbucks. Look into the mirror, in your own eyes and look very deeply. I think you will appreciate who's looking back! What a beautiful woman!! The eyes are the windows to the soul. Another reward - come back and write a post here about it - let us support you and listen to what we think of you. We may not have known you long, but we understand you and what you are dealing with!
You be strong Renny! It's up to you what you do, and any decision you make is a step to seeing that beautiful soul reflecting back in your mirror at home, or us - your mirror here!
Thank you, both.
I tried leaving early. I confess, once I practically bolted. They are relentless. I was so upset going into the house, then, there was so much bad said, I just told son, "I gotta go." One SIL, said, "Oh, look, she didn't even eat anything." No kidding. I was thinking, "Oh geez, no manners again." (It was several of them, making comments--and I had been there I think an hour--so, I made my exit. They hate me. Plain and simple.
One GC's b'day isn't until late summer, so if no one can come to visit me until then, that will be an indicator. With DIL's b'day, a card and gift card, will have to do. No need for me to do more. Maybe get her a bungee cord, so whenever she feels the urge to shove, we can both go. Geez. Maybe whisper, "I didn't get you a card." Since we are "joking." Yeah, a bit bitter. It comes and goes.
Oh boy. Who knew something that should be sweet, loving and fun like a family birthday or other celebration could turn into such a mine field? Although my experiences are a little different than yours, Renny, I feel your hurt, frustration and pain. Your ILs are off the charts mean and rude! You do not deserve this treatment!
Good point about treating ourselves after a day with ILs who devalue us, Coco. I was going to say "Too bad we can't all meet for coffee or something somewhere," but we can! Right here!
Yes Pen! We can meet right here! Grab your coffee and set a time! LOL!
Renny, whatever you decide to do is your choice. I just can't tell you what to do with people like that attacking you. It takes a strong human being to endure ridicule, and sometimes the best thing for your own self preservation is to send a card. It's obvious they have no respect for you, so it's up to you to have that respect for yourself!
We are not going anywhere and will be right here for you, Renny!
Ya, Pents. My whole focus when I was driving to GC's house, was being so happy to see them. Then, knowing, I will be picked on not long after I am in the house. I've tried just being quiet and simple answers. I tried keeping busy talking to all the kids. Her parents cannot say anything pleasant, they are so sarcastic. They really believe they are funny. Her mother calls a neighbor a piece of ****. Unreal. And, I am the one being eliminated here. I am not a saint, but other than missing DIL's b'day last year and giving a card late, was only thing that I wouldn't normally do.
I just couldn't take anymore. I still haven't and will not ever tell son about something she said to me on the phone pre-GC. I think because DIL and me never got along....I think when she went overboard recently, that, did change things for me. Resentment.
Something Creme wrote in another topic about a DIL's background, really made me believe that that is the whole key here. I see my DIL physically standing there, but it is her upbringing that I am looking at. So, it is really like me trying to get along with her parents/baggage. And, if she wasn't able to--then, how can I? I somehow "told" myself that DIL was different from them. But, she is not. It seems more clear now.. I thought she'd outgrow and see some of their ways. Nope. And, getting worse.
Renny, I totally understand where you're coming from. Our DIL's family and us have nothing in common, it's pure torture to have to spend a couple of hours with them, they don't talk about us to our faces but DS told me once they do talk about us and we try to be civil but the mutual dislike is very apparent. At the beginning I thought DIL was different than her family but as much as she has tried to better herself she's still very much her mother's daughter and our GD is being exposed to this type of behavior which is one of the reasons I'm so afraid to get too close to her. Do what you feel is right. I was already suffering thinking we're going to have to spend time together with DIL's family on our GD's b'day in Sept. but have decided we'll be there for our GD.
Be happy with yourself and whatever decisions you make, don't worry about what others think and yes, reward yourself after having to put up with such abuse.
I've been thinking about this all morning. Here's what *I* would do: I would get DIL a generic type birthday card and a gift card of the same value that you spend on your son. If you're invited to their house and her family is there, bring a small notebook and pen, and when they say something snarky, whip out your notebook and calmly say "Pardon me? What did you say?" and write down what they said.
Often bullies like that don't want to repeat their rude comments, they will backpedal right away. If they ask why you're writing their words down, calmly say something like "Oh you guys are always so witty, I want to try and remember the witty things you say, so I can start saying them back and be just as witty as you all." Of course, in your head, you will be thinking "sh!tty" instead of "witty", but as long as you SAY "witty" - you're okay. HA! And to drive the point home, you can follow up with "I don't know if I can pull it off though, maybe I'm just not as witty as you."
And if they fuss about that, then you know that their intentions are not good. If they are actually joking and mean what they say jokingly, then how could they ever mind that you say the same things to them?
Then come and post what they said here and we'll let discuss it.
HA~~ that is one of the funniest and most unique thing I've ever heard.....HAHAHAHA
Ha that is pretty funny and sounds like a really good idea. I will have to make a note of that if that ever happens to me.
Quote from: Scoop on February 22, 2010, 09:50:59 AM
I've been thinking about this all morning. Here's what *I* would do: I would get DIL a generic type birthday card and a gift card of the same value that you spend on your son. If you're invited to their house and her family is there, bring a small notebook and pen, and when they say something snarky, whip out your notebook and calmly say "Pardon me? What did you say?" and write down what they said.
Often bullies like that don't want to repeat their rude comments, they will backpedal right away. If they ask why you're writing their words down, calmly say something like "Oh you guys are always so witty, I want to try and remember the witty things you say, so I can start saying them back and be just as witty as you all." Of course, in your head, you will be thinking "sh!tty" instead of "witty", but as long as you SAY "witty" - you're okay. HA! And to drive the point home, you can follow up with "I don't know if I can pull it off though, maybe I'm just not as witty as you."
And if they fuss about that, then you know that their intentions are not good. If they are actually joking and mean what they say jokingly, then how could they ever mind that you say the same things to them?
Then come and post what they said here and we'll let discuss it.
This is actually a very smart idea amoung IL's. If they really intended no harm, they wouldn't question their words being written down...
Thank you so much, Scoop! Really brilliant! See, we can all work together here.
I think that would take away most of the fear in even going to their house. I would feel power again. Especially, because I love to write, communicate, and compose. It would be more natural for me, than taking a hidden recorder. As you say, bullies don't like things brought out in the open. That is why they whisper and do subtle manipulation.
You got it!
I had a friend that used to complain that these women would get together and talk about her husband all the time and ask her nosy questions. She asked me what to do. I said when they start their round of questioning the next time, tell them, "excuse me" if you have questions regarding my husband--let me go and bring him over so he can answer them! Then, proceed to yell in the middle of the room..."Oh (his name)!" "Can you please come over here and answer all these questions. They want to know all about you. I figured you can speak for yourself." Then, walk away. Bingo!
But, I think you have begun an interesting thought. Bring it out in the open and right now. Thank you.
Well, you don't really want to stoop to their level, right? That was too funny though! And a very good thought. I think the only thing that would make me stop is the thought of being on the same side. The side of the bully - someone who takes pleasure in making someone else feel little. I don't really want to make someone feel little, I just would like for them to think...
Right?
My wise woman sister, Coco. Yes, would need to be fine-tuned. But, I am way outnumbered over there...I may have to step it up, just to survive and keep my "happy face."
HAHAHA this is too funny
Quote from: renny97 on February 22, 2010, 12:59:13 PM
My wise woman sister, Coco. Yes, would need to be fine-tuned. But, I am way outnumbered over there...I may have to step it up, just to survive and keep my "happy face."
Renny, you are too funny! I really understand your feelings and I would be sooooooo tempted to write down everything they say. I might even do that if they really got nasty, or pull out a little recording device - even if it's broken (HAHA!) It's a funny thought to begin with. Your treatment over there is bent on cruel and I think it would be the funniest thing to call them on it! I'm not sure I would be able to carry it through, because what effect would it have. Your darned if you do and also if you don't. I'm just afraid their dislike of you would be brought out to your son, who (looking like a deer in the headlamps) wouldn't understand how that sweet old mother of his never did something like that before?? It could go either way.
Being that I haven't been put in that position (yet), I wouldn't know how I would react...
But I think guest1 would like to be invited! ;D
If you can bring someone with guest1 or Scoop's humor with you, then I think you could have a great time in spite of them! ;)
And your son could look like this - :o, only with a smile!! Your GC too! Now that's a support system...
Coco, you're absolutely right. I would never stoop to their level. It was just a funny thought after what we are put through we deserve a good laugh once in a while.
Yes, originally, it sounded good. I like the fact, of speaking up. But, I think I just need some good and firm ways of answering their bully remarks and uncaring questions.
Like I said, if I don't get a visit at least, between now and then, I will take over a gift a day before GC's b'day. I will not let them see me that upset. That is their goal. That is how they operate. The worst, is seeing my GC turn into them. Boy, that has gotta make them "proud." They have 3 other GC and 3 other "adult" children--and it almost seems like my son's wife is their favorite?
My friend, had a good expression knowing how I worry about things; before making a decision, always "give it one more day." I'll have more days (hopefully) to ponder. But, friend's idea, was to ease an impulse to act in haste.
Right now, I still feel compelled to go to GC's party. But, I know as it draws near, I will remember how much things have changed. She isn't the bubbly girl I knew. Her mother may not even realize the change. I do.
It is all a bully mentality. It is like getting "beat up" with every round. If none will have respect, then I go ahead of time, and give gift or have son come here. I will not walk into an ambush.
Renny, your friends advice is wise. Somtimes things are funny to think about, but may not work on your behalf. It sounds like you have already worked out "how to deal" in a good way, listening to this advice. I wouldn't want to see you hurt more.
But the recording was a funny thought and you had some people here in stitches (including me)! Everyone here has so much hurt that it's good for our souls to laugh! Thank you for that!
Take care of you! And keep us posted. :)
Is there a possibility for a confrontation? These people sound very agressive and should be able to handle it.
Not that I'm much of a good advice giver when it comes to IL situations, but any time I have adult students who resort to snide comments or rude behavior in the classroom, I'll tell them, "I sense a lot of hostility coming from you. Is there any thing you want to say? Have I offended you in some way? If not, then I need you to stop making comments under your breath or making jokes because it brings the morale in the class down."
I know it is easier said than done, but I'm just wondering if that is an option.
Carmexx,
Wow! Good idea and perfect wording! I hope Renny comes in and sees this.
This idea might actually work if presented in such a tactfull way. It will make them think, but also puts their behavior back on them so they have to explain themselves! I don't think I would call it confrontation. I don't know what to call it, but I think of confrontation in a more negative way. Your wording is not negative at all, but more questioning... The "morale" in the classroom isn't in question with Renny's situation, but the morale in the family is (polite way of pointing out the mentality, although I'm not sure people who do these things are smart enough to get that). Do you have a suggestion for wording regarding the family, as opposed to the classroom?
Carmex, we need you here with your ideas and perceptions. You may have just given Renny some peace of mind, she hasn't seen in a long time. We have all been sitting here knocking our heads together, because Renny has been feeling as though she has no control over this situation. Renny, correct me if I wrong, and you just came through and said something that very well may work here in wonderful ways for Renny! The additional gift here is that Renny will feel more in control of her treatment and these statements point out that she is not being respected in a calm and tactful way!
Thank you, "VERY" wise woman! It is obvious you are truly a teacher and a Professor and we have so much to learn from you!
Feel that! Hear that! It's me patting your back hard, but I hope it doesn't hurt! ;D
Renny - give us examples of what they say and we'll help you come up with comebacks that are JUST on this side of "the line".
I am far from a prejudiced person and only ask this to see if other people in interfaith - intercultural son/DIL situations have the same issues my husband and myself do? For many years I thought I was told by all I was the MIL from heaven; DIL was rude but I lived with it for son. But an issue came up which showed how controlling she was - and my son, after telling me how much he loved me as always because he watched her treat my husband and I like controllable idiots (" You will respect our wishes You will do as you are told") and finally our giving up, now controls us by not allowing us to see our new grandchild. My DIL is Jewish; we have respected her religion; attended all of the religious holiday; even had some of the ceremonies here in our house - I bought all of the Jewish items we needed for the rituals. Then she changed. And my son is going along with it - she is his wife and we would not expect him to do otherwise. But all I do is cry; my doctor says it is affecting my heart and is cruel. We saw the baby for one hour two times after travelling for hours. She is from a very dysfunctional family; there is a lot of divorce, etc. She had birth control pills when she was 15 which she is very proud of. Is this typical (this controlling aspect) of Jewish people or families? Our family is torn apart; they have killed me; my husband wants nothing to do with them. I have figured my son, who was the light of my life, is gone from me. Tell me, is this typical?
Quote from: mary on February 23, 2010, 10:01:47 AM
I am far from a prejudiced person and only ask this to see if other people in interfaith - intercultural son/DIL situations have the same issues my husband and myself do? For many years I thought I was told by all I was the MIL from heaven; DIL was rude but I lived with it for son. But an issue came up which showed how controlling she was - and my son, after telling me how much he loved me as always because he watched her treat my husband and I like controllable idiots (" You will respect our wishes You will do as you are told") and finally our giving up, now controls us by not allowing us to see our new grandchild. My DIL is Jewish; we have respected her religion; attended all of the religious holiday; even had some of the ceremonies here in our house - I bought all of the Jewish items we needed for the rituals. Then she changed. And my son is going along with it - she is his wife and we would not expect him to do otherwise. But all I do is cry; my doctor says it is affecting my heart and is cruel. We saw the baby for one hour two times after travelling for hours. She is from a very dysfunctional family; there is a lot of divorce, etc. She had birth control pills when she was 15 which she is very proud of. Is this typical (this controlling aspect) of Jewish people or families? Our family is torn apart; they have killed me; my husband wants nothing to do with them. I have figured my son, who was the light of my life, is gone from me. Tell me, is this typical?
Mary, welcome! And no, I do not believe this is typical. I do not know that much about the Jewish religion, but from what I remember (old Jewish boyfriend) the women in these families take a "lesser" role and the men control the family environment, belief systems, activities., etc... Maybe my experience is limited, but I would look more to her dysfunctional upbringing, than the Jewish religion in general. I actually had a very compatible relationship with that BF's mother. Maybe My experience was different, but I would tend to believe it is NOT a cultural thing, but a controlling thing!
There are dysfunctional people not matter what religion, or race we come from. They may make it appear as though it is a cultural thing sometimes, but I don't believe it. AND - I could very well be wrong, because of inexperience in this area.
I would be interested in hearing what others have to say about this.
Good afternoon,
I really appreciate all the help with my situation.
I think Carmexx has some helpful ways for me to start to cope with this in a direct, but somehow "tactful" way. I do not want to come across like I am upset, but giving some of that "love" back ;). Being a sitting duck, got me nowhere. I need to speak up, that is clear. Now, I need a good verbal or psychological way to stand up.
Scoop, the FIL will come into the house for the first time for a GC's party, and instead of greeting me, he asks, "Have ya got a job yet?" And, yet, he keeps walking through the house to the kitchen. It is these low-class whammies, that just come outta the blue. I am only working part-time and I am sure he's been told about my job search and my situation now.
They aim at my weaknesses. So, that might be a good point to remember in "serving" the rally. My later thought, was just asking him back, "Why?" or "Yeah, my full-time JOB is to mind my own business." Go just far enough.
The MIL commented that I bought an expensive gift for GC's b'day. Anything would be, after they bought her a coloring book. I say that, only because she made that comment. Both her parents, seem to be keeping an eye on my financial endeavors??? Again, why? They cannot discuss anything but monetary issues? I know, their "love" should be enough? ::)
The thing that annoys me, is that they "try" to ignore me, and then, when they do say anything, it is insulting or nosy or negative. They don't even lead into it, it is just "wham." They may pass me or whisper like DIL did that time. I think now, that DIL whispered because she didn't want her family to think she was in on their bashing. She was a "good" DIL. As my GC repeated, "I didn't do anything to her." My GC, had a way of just bringing up things she overheard and not even realizing what she was hearing. GC also asked me, "G, do you think you are "hot"? Whaaa? I was doing an accent like I did when we used to have tea parties. And, she just looked at me and I was shocked. Someone is telling her "I" think I am "it"? During the long and tortuous visits when I tried to keep my mouth shut.
Another friend reminded me that, "Two people can both say nothing; one that talks all the time and one who is quiet."
Mary, I'm going out on a limb here and saying something that is against my grain. If this is affecting your heart, it may be time to let go out of self preservation, and I know you don't want to do that because it is so upsetting to you. If your son loves you as he says, and your DIL is absolutely controlling like she sounds, then he may be staying in this relationship because of your GC (his son). He may not be telling you this, if you raised him to be open-minded and a loving and responsible adult. He can't go against what his wife says right now. This relationship (to me) has all the indications of having an expiration date stamped on it.
If my feelings are right, you will have your son back someday, without the heart conditions, and he may be a much sadder but wiser son in this process. But that may make him stronger in his future choices.
I'm sorry, and I hope I don't upset you or anyone else by saying this. It's just my feelings and I have been wrong before and will be wrong again. I hope I am. In the meantime, please come here and post your concerns. There are so many other women here on this site who may have more experience with this cultural background than me.
I would suggest you write up your own post about this. You can get instructions in "Forum Support." It's just like writing an email. You may even want to copy and past your post above to start your original posting with. I feel my opinion isn't all that is "out there," and you may get very different perspectives on this. I would hope that you hear from a Jewish MIL who can help you more than anyone else to understand this situation.
This is a very touchy subject, but I believe it's well worth getting more opinions than just mine...
Again, we are not experts, but simply MIL's who walked through this door in allot of pain - like you. We give our support and understanding, and will love you to death! This is a very healing place here, and I hope by creating your own post, you will receive "hope" in the form of a more experienced reply...
Dear Mary,
I'm not Jewish but this is typical of SOME DILs....not all. Mine said to me, "you're trying to control me and you're not going to get away with it" before my son even married her.
This was because I asked my son if he was going to his really good friend's bachelor party? He said, "no".
I couldn't believe it and said, "you're not??? You're not going to Sam's bachelor party???"
That's when she said what she said to me.
Some of them are just like that, no matter the religion. It does affect your heart; it breaks it.
Hi Mary,
My DIL is catholic and she didn't let us see our first and only GD for 6 mos. When she was first born, we traveled 3 1/2 hrs. to see her for a couple of hours and drove back home the same day because her mom was already there, my 88 year old father went with us, (his first great grandchild) it didn't make a diference. We bought GD's bedroom furniture among other things. DIL doesn't really say much to us, she speaks through our son who has been very disrespectful to me in the past. My son and I were very close and I thought I was going to die, my husband didn't want to have anything to do with them either, she also comes from a very dysfuctinal family, she's the most normal one of all. I'm not really sure what happened for DS to let us back into their lives, we're still walking on eggshells so who knows, it may not last. These women don't seem to care or appreciate anything you do for them or GC, it's their way or the highway. Stick around, you'll get lots of good advice, support and understanding here.
Good advice. Guest1 is so kind, but just gave the best advice with so much understanding behind it. Guest1 - is a very wise woman!
We all give advice here. We are not experts and don't get our feelings hurt when our advice isn't taken. As I said before, I don't have the experience to respond to this, but many other women here do. I think you are in good hands here, even if you are taking advice from someone without the Jewish background! Chickie and guest1 both have the experience and understanding in this area that I may be lacking in. That's what I feel you need, and I don't feel your situation is cultural or religious. I believe your situation has alot to do with control.
You will get many opinions on this site. While some have the experience to talk about the issues you have with your DS and DIL, I just don't - but, I know you are in very capable and understanding/experienced hands.
Hang in there and take care of you and yours!
Hi Mary,my DIL is not Jewish,and acts just like this.She followed me out of their home one time when i was leaving and attacked me.She started screaming at me,said i disrespected her wishes,she did not want me to come visit.I said my son called and wanted me to come.She started shaking her head,and said no he didn't want me there,he just feels sorry for you, because i live alone.My son had told me about a job,and took me to put in an application.And she SCREAMED i told you if you were going to move here you better do it before we had kids.I was in shock!!! I said i don't understand,thats my son.........she said BUT HE IS MY HUSBAND!!!!!!!!..........my son had no idea she said this.He called about a week later,wanting me to come back the next week.I explained to him very calmly what she said.............she denied it.
All about control,she is a piece of work!!!!
Renny,i agree you need some really good come backs!!!!
I'm going to think on this for you,maybe i can come up with a few.
You need to hold your head high,when you are around them.If they ask you if you got a job yet,you could just smile,and ask, why do you need to know?
Quote from: renny97 on February 22, 2010, 10:46:14 PM
Yes, originally, it sounded good. I like the fact, of speaking up. But, I think I just need some good and firm ways of answering their bully remarks and uncaring questions.
Like I said, if I don't get a visit at least, between now and then, I will take over a gift a day before GC's b'day. I will not let them see me that upset. That is their goal. That is how they operate. The worst, is seeing my GC turn into them. Boy, that has gotta make them "proud." They have 3 other GC and 3 other "adult" children--and it almost seems like my son's wife is their favorite?
My friend, had a good expression knowing how I worry about things; before making a decision, always "give it one more day." I'll have more days (hopefully) to ponder. But, friend's idea, was to ease an impulse to act in haste.
Right now, I still feel compelled to go to GC's party. But, I know as it draws near, I will remember how much things have changed. She isn't the bubbly girl I knew. Her mother may not even realize the change. I do.
It is all a bully mentality. It is like getting "beat up" with every round. If none will have respect, then I go ahead of time, and give gift or have son come here. I will not walk into an ambush.
Renny,
I am always at a loss when it comes to how to react to bullies, but I had a couple thoughts as I read your posts. First of all, your DIL wouldn't act toward you as she does if she hadn't been brought up that way - and knowing that her family speaks to you in like is proof. This type of behavior is very low class and it's so sad to know that your gc is exposed to it. My suggestion: you could forego the party and think of an activity that your gc loves (if you aren't sure, you could ask a child around the same age what the craze is right now) and invite them to go out with you alone before their birthday and give them their gift while you are at your outing. I wouldn't want to be ridiculed by anyone - and I wouldn't want my gc to be witness to disrespect toward me. If you do decide to go to the party, I really like Mominwaiting's suggestion of asking 'why do you need to know?' when they ask you rude questions. If they ask about your job again, you could say "why - do you know someone hiring a good worker?". I've also been told that if someone puts you on the spot by asking you an intrusive question, you can always answer "I don't know". Your son is being put in a very difficult situation - outnumbered by the mob - but I think he must be feeling sick over the treatment you are getting (even if he doesn't let it show). You are a much better mother than your DIL's mother - you would never have approved of such despicable behavior from your own child, much less taught them to behave this way through example. You should be proud of yourself for doing what is right!
Thanks, from my heart, Hope, Coco, MIW, Scoop, and Carmexx, and others. That meant a lot to me.
I am leaning towards Hope's idea of foregoing the party. I don't want my GC to witness them attacking me more than what they've taught her already.
I shouldn't have to prepare for verbal battle at what should be a special day for GC. It started to get "ugly" at the last one. The in-laws drank, the night before. The FIL, made sure I heard this, too. GC's b'day was on a Sunday, so in-laws didn't go to "church." ::)
So, FIL, is running his mouth..."Oh, I got up at 9am and that was a nice party, a good time was had by all." I was just thinking, "wow, ya got dysfunctional in-laws that are now hungover." :o Oh, that is "great." Then, the GC is sitting on his lap and I thought how disgusting--the irony.
There is no scrutiny of him? I cannot and don't want to even imagine what or who they trashed when they were already trashed....and, I do what?
I think they have got through to son. It is easier for him. He's never spoke to me, like he did when I finally told him how they treat me. Not the reaction I expected. The tide is changing.
His wife is messed up from her parents, but none of them see what is going on? I actually think I probably did speak up too late. I may be reading more into the conversation, but it was like, "whatdya want me to do"? "I am already brainwashed." "I believe what they tell me now." "These are just people that joke." After his initial anger, he calmed down, and got a few more details of what I am being called and by who. He never liked fighting of any kind. I realize, that he is so deeply into a situation--he may not know what else to do.
I cannot put into words, the horrible feeling I get around those people. It is like stories where something goes wrong later, and then, everyone asked what the signs were?
So, I think at this point, I need to stay waaay away. I can't wait, for sick people to get well. It works for them. It doesn't for me. All while they proclaim God and family. Gee, Ren? Don't want to sign up for this? :(
Here is a poem, I think of when I see what they are doing to GC's attitude:
Author: Unknown.
YOU'VE GOT TO BE TAUGHT
You've got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You've got to be taught
From year to year,
It's got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.
You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade.
You've got to be carefully taught.
You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught!
I'm so sorry, Anna!!! I have thought and heard many times that the "stranger danger" thing is good in some ways but in reality, it is a stranger who usually is the one a child should run to when in trouble.
I don't know where you draw the line with kids of today. It's a sad way to exist. :-\
Oh Anna, I hope those babysteps can walk a little faster for you and your GK's. Do you think something might have happened to DIL growing up that makes her act this way?
yes, Anna, that explains a lot! She really is a troubled young woman. I don't understand why she treats you the way she does except she might be afraid of anyone with her child. She has no idea of trust in any way. Things like her life rob you of that. Heart is too wounded.
Anna, the "mother's hand" story was traumatic, but not that bad really. The same thing happened to me growing up, but I did it on a ship while we were all standing in line wearing life-jackets. I was only 4 at the time and was just embarassed. At that age, the "hand" looked the same as my mother's. LOL! Didn't look up until the "hand" tugged at my hand?
The rest of that story did so much damage to her! I agree with Chickie. She may not be able to let go of her insecurities without counselling and very hard work and tears on her part. Has she gotten help? If not, then this might be something for your husband to discuss with your son (since he's the only mouth they hear). Be careful though that your son doesn't tell her where the idea came from. It may destroy her already limited trust. This is something that is up to your son to talk over (and through) with her. People and animals both suffer when it comes to abandonment. My loving dog (coco) had been abandoned when I first got her. It took me a year (without working out of the house) to work through it with her. She literally lost her mind and tore up the house (pooped all over too) if I went out the door - even for 5 minutes. I'm not saying your DIL is a dog, but she still has those insecurities coming from that. It's one of the reasons (just one) that I won't get involved again. Because of the abandonment, I am not sure I would be trusting again, so I don't believe I am good for anyone. I won't take anyone "down" with me, but I love my solitude since I've gotten used to it and have learned so many things from it. I wouldn't be who I am without all the experiences I've had and I believe that we have these experiences for a purpose. She just has to come to terms with it. It's going to be hard for her, but she's still young enough to do it.
Thank you Anna. You are too! I can see the kind person you have become through your words, and no, life is not kind to us always. We can grow from the bad things that happen and become more caring adults, but it's hard to do that and there are things that still bother me too, as you say they do you! I hope she will get to that place where she see's you for who you are and trusts you, realizing that you are NOT her mother and don't deserve to pay her mother's "price." I can hope and pray that she get's help of some kind, but if she doesn't then someone will reach out and touch her heart to open it again. You just never know.
I'm praying for good things Anna! I know you are too! And I hope someday you will post your story here too! With all the pain included so you can see what a true miracle you are! I'm sure you know it now. There was something healing about writing that story here. It's a pretty simple story (or I felt that at the time). I really had to think about it and relive it to write it down like that. I saw some good things about me in it, I didn't see before. That's healing and a miracle in itself! I believe you have the same miracle inside you. I've read your words and have watched your loving concern for a friend here! I would love to know your story!
I am sorry for your past trauma, Anna. It would seem if your DIL would trust anyone, it would be you. You said she "didn't think she had a problem" and therefore, no counseling. Why did she forget sobbing in your arms? No problem?
I think many of us were injured by a betrayal or even neglect as a child and do the best we can. How that impacts us, is complex. Some, take it out on others, and some, keep inside and find difficult to trust, and chronically depressed.
If you grow up in a home that was chaos for whatever reason it becomes "normal." Children think that everyone else is going through the same experiences.
It becomes very difficult to allow anyone into their lives. I am wondering if some DILs actually want to reach out, but are afraid. People, in general, after being emotionally wounded, get defensive and protective of self. It may not even be about the MIL. It could be about the childhood gone wrong.
Almost like an alcoholic, there is no logical explanation for the continuing behavior at the cost of lives. It is so blatant to others, that did not grow up in their household. I often wondered, if my childhood upbringing had anything to do with how I related to others later...
It's very complicated, isn't it? What a tangle of past traumas and perceived or real hurts we find ourselves in. We all bring something to these relationships. I know things from my childhood affect how I deal with others, including DIL. I'm hyper-aware of being judged and found lacking, and I go right back in time (and childhood was a looong time ago, so that's some feat!)
I'm envious of DIL & her family's closeness because of something that went wrong in mine. It's not her fault that my parents didn't cherish me or stick together to give us a strong foundation, so I need to stop being angry at her for that. However, she owns the rudeness and mean comments towards us as well as her efforts in keeping DS away. I own how it affects me when she behaves like that.
Wow, "lightbulb moment!" Thanks, Wise WoMen!
Quote from: penstamen on February 24, 2010, 09:53:24 PM
It's very complicated, isn't it? What a tangle of past traumas and perceived or real hurts we find ourselves in. We all bring something to these relationships. I know things from my childhood affect how I deal with others, including DIL. I'm hyper-aware of being judged and found lacking, and I go right back in time (and childhood was a looong time ago, so that's some feat!)
I'm envious of DIL & her family's closeness because of something that went wrong in mine. It's not her fault that my parents didn't cherish me or stick together to give us a strong foundation, so I need to stop being angry at her for that. However, she owns the rudeness and mean comments towards us as well as her efforts in keeping DS away. I own how it affects me when she behaves like that.
Wow, "lightbulb moment!" Thanks, Wise WoMen!
Oh my! Thank you too penstamen! What beautiful and honest wording. I hope you will put this in the inspiration folder. This is a very good thing to refer back to and we can all use that!
We need a smiley face that looks like a light bulb! ;D
Renny,i ran across a book today while looking at abuse web sites.
You can't say that to me
By: Suzette Haden Elgin Ph.P
"Gentle Art of Verbal self-defense"
It might be helpful for you
Hey Mominwaiting!
This would be good under "Helpful Resources" too!
Someone has been doing homework! Good on you! ;D
I will go put it there too!!! :)
Thanks, MIW. I had the book, "Gentle Art of Verbal Defense." It was like learning to argue. I still have a hard time.
Is that a second book, "You Can't Say That To Me"? I have been longing for a good self-help book. I love those.
I find info on bullies almost the same as what I've experienced through her family. Same treatment.
Renny,I'm not sure if it's a second book or not,sorry :-\
I haven't posted in a couple of days because I've been so busy, and I don't want to hijack the thread, but thanks, Coco for your sweet words!
Penstamen, I love the way you said that. It is so true, and it takes a lot of honesty to acknowledge that.
Renny97, I'm glad you figured out a way to handle this. You shouldn't have to be subjected to people bullying you around.
I don't know if you are inclined to do this at all, but is there a big brother, big sister type organization (I'm sure there is a grandparent one too) around the area? You can mentor a child and/or spend time with the child. I think this may help accomplish three things -help keep you busy so that this is not the overwhelming thing in your life, it will give you some time with a child with whom you could form a grandmother type bond, and it may help your DIL realize what her daughter (your gc) is missing.
Thoughts?
Renny! Wonderful... ;D
Hi Renny!
I was thinking about you today. Was this the day of the BD celebration? If so, how are you?
No, that isn't 'til much later. Thanks, for asking.
Under the weather. It came on suddenly. Fatigue? But,
21 more days until Spring!!!!!!!!!!! 8)
I am having so much fun picturing that...the taking of notes and asking to have insults repeated! I can't even think beyond that to whether it might cause more problems. ROLTFL!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I agree! It took me awhile to even think about the consequences!
Well, the way I figure it, if you put it 'nicely' that you are taking their comments in the same spirit as they're intended, there can be no consequences to you. Because if they actually are just "harsh" people who don't INTEND anything by their comments, they won't mind if you write them down and they won't mind to repeat them. But if they actually intend to be mean, well, they would then have to ADMIT that their intentions were not good. Which they CAN'T do, because then they would have to admit that they meant it in the past too.
Hopefully it would just be a remined that they have to watch how they talk around you. But the secret is to be COMPLETELY sweet when you ask them to repeat their comments. No 'looks', no sighs, nothing but sweetness and light.
Quote from: Carmexx on February 23, 2010, 04:06:39 AM
Is there a possibility for a confrontation? These people sound very agressive and should be able to handle it.
Not that I'm much of a good advice giver when it comes to IL situations, but any time I have adult students who resort to snide comments or rude behavior in the classroom, I'll tell them, "I sense a lot of hostility coming from you. Is there any thing you want to say? Have I offended you in some way? If not, then I need you to stop making comments under your breath or making jokes because it brings the morale in the class down."
I know it is easier said than done, but I'm just wondering if that is an option.
Hi and Good morning
the only trouble with confrontation is, that I've found, in my case...my DIL was pushing my buttons so I would get angry, and act out...in defense, that way, she could say, wull, that's it, this nut case is out of my life for good....and that way, she could also establish that my son would also not be around much if she wasn't going to be.
That is exactly what has happened in previous situations. She was always pointing out faults. It didn't matter what I did or didn't do; never right.
And, even knowing that, I was so hurt, by one of her names she called me; I let her b'day roll by.
That, was the turning point she had longed hoped and waited for...and yep, I did not have one "Hallmark" feeling and caved. That, kicked into gear a new round of bashing by her family towards me. I sent a card, a week later and just wrote, "I am sorry." But, it didn't really matter. I signed my judgment and she has "won." I kept this to myself (her and family's bashing) for so long. When I did tell son, it didn't matter. I had exceeded the "statute." So, everything she did is fine. I didn't file my "complaint" in time. I guess, since these are in-"laws", I need to start thinking like the law???? May be a new concept and totally leave out the emotion. It seems to be her methodology.
It is really okay with me. I am over a lot of the initial pain, disbelief, denial.
How did I ever expect any other outcome? Good luck, son.
It's so heartening to read that you are "OK with it." Our expectations are pretty much the "garden variety" kind...(when we aren't one of those MILs bent on havoc and destruction.) We look with anticipation at our families expanding and assume love will triumph.
It takes a lot of courage to move on and and choose to have a life instead of letting her take it away from you. I think most of us are in various stages of learning that.
Ping! :-)
It's hard to let go since we're programmed as moms to lift up automobiles, fight fire, flood, bad guys or whatever to protect our kids! We make epic efforts to raise them in many cases, and then in an instant we have to stop. We must allow ourselves the time to get comfortable with the idea of moving on and not feel pressured to do it on someone else's schedule. Of course, the sooner we can accomplish this the better it is for us :)
Boy, that's the truth, Pen. Letting go is fine if you're not hit below the belt at every turn. It's ridiculous. For a MIL, life can be torture and trying to walk a tightrope when you're not even in the circus is too much to ask. I absolutely hate the term boundaries. I wish the book had never been written. Someone took the words and turned them into how to commit murder and get away with it.
Go ahead, belt me one. (yes, I know DILS and MILS are bad, equally)
Hey, C/B - Why not write a book? I'm serious. We could all help with the title and with our permission you could use some of our stories. They need to be told. My title? "Boundaries or Battle-lines?"
I would, Luise but I don't know what I'd do with the last 15 I've started. :)
That's it, Pen. Boundaries? Who thought we were even in the same zone? It goes against our nature. We want to see our sons happy (let alone, actually "SEE" them) and it becomes "interfering"? These terms were created for "MILzillas", not the average MIL.
Long ago, I had begun outlines for a book, also. But, it was never considering this topic. How about, "The MIL's Empty Nest"? Or, "The Mother and Begotten Son."
I feel like I have been doing some kind of nesting today....I went on a manic cleaning spree! I even tackled the ceramic tiles in bathroom!? Clean those webs!
Here's another one; "It DOES Fall Far From The Tree."
What is the title of "Chapter 1"???? Where would we start?
Ren
Co-authoring! Perfect!
I was thinking today after reading these posts about the term "boundaries" and why it bothers some of us so. The way the term is used nowdays sounds like a leash or fence one uses to hinder another's access to the world. I don't want someone else to put me on a leash or in a cage!
But if we look at "boundaries" as something we can put up around ourselves as a safety mechanism against those we feel mean to interfere or harm us somehow, we don't have that same reaction. If someone wants to protect themselves, that is their right. If someone wants to tie me up to protect themselves from some imagined future harm, that is not OK. Big difference.
I think the term "boundaries" is being misused these days. If anyone remembers the pop-psych etymology of the term from the "I'm OK, You're OK Seventies" you could enlighten us. Or maybe it's late and I'm not making any sense at all :)
P - You think really well at night. :)
When I think of that overused, misunderstood word, I think of how I was raised to merge with everyone and everything and had no identity. Merging was what women were supposed to do that...(I was born in the '20s, remember) and shut up. LOL! I like the words individuality and identity and stuff like that.
The opposite of merging for me is not setting boundaries, which sounds defensive and war-like...it's autonomy.
Quote from: penstamen on March 01, 2010, 09:43:28 PM
I was thinking today after reading these posts about the term "boundaries" and why it bothers some of us so. The way the term is used nowdays sounds like a leash or fence one uses to hinder another's access to the world. I don't want someone else to put me on a leash or in a cage!
But if we look at "boundaries" as something we can put up around ourselves as a safety mechanism against those we feel mean to interfere or harm us somehow, we don't have that same reaction. If someone wants to protect themselves, that is their right. If someone wants to tie me up to protect themselves from some imagined future harm, that is not OK. Big difference.
I think the term "boundaries" is being misused these days. If anyone remembers the pop-psych etymology of the term from the "I'm OK, You're OK Seventies" you could enlighten us. Or maybe it's late and I'm not making any sense at all :)
Wow! You really do think well at night! That's something I never thought about before! I never read that book. I hope someone else has??
You are good Pen! I hope you stick around... ;D ;D
Thanks. It's always a gamble, or like Forrest's box of chocolates..."You never know...." :)
I can't remember if I ever even knew what book that was in, but I do remember people saying "I'm OK, You're OK." I think there might be a book of that title. That was when I first heard the term "boundaries." That entire pop-psych era kind of leaves me with a creepy feeling. Genuine counseling is a wonderful thing, but some of that weird stuff wasn't good for women or anyone in real crisis.
Yep! I remember that! The book I remember too, although I never got time to read it back then. I was titled "I'm OK, You're OK!" Imagine that!
See? You're not as bad as you thought!! :)
Thanks, Coco. There are days I feel like a dinosaur. I'll use phrases with the younger people I see and they look at me like I'm nuts. Oops, can't say "nuts." Can't say "get busy," "butter up," "tweak," "threesome," "partner," or "chronic." There are a bunch more but I can't think of them right now. It's pretty hilarious when I'm speaking and editing at the same time!
OMG! That is sooooooo funny and so true too!
Thanks Pen! ;D ;D