I personally have a dilemma for this Thanksgiving and would appreciate your ideas. Am I being a #1 beachhead? Should I just fix the dinner and enjoy doing that if I want, or don't fix the dinner and be willing to help where I am needed? We will visit DS/DIL and 2 GC like we did in the summer - staying at a B&B around the corner from them for a couple nights, and then we will watch GC for 2 nights so DS and DIL can have a get away; and then we will stay a couple more nights at the B&B after they get back. They live in a 3bdm apartment and offered us the living room pull out. There is no privacy and no way to avoid being woken up by the GC. So we choose to stay at the B&B. (BTW I suggested they take 4 nights get- away but they are not *ready* to go that long. Yes, these are the same family members i wrote about before who demanded they would not visit us unless we would watch the GC for a week so they could have a vacation. A little bit unpredictable. But that's fine, vacations away from your own kids sound good, but they are not that easy to do when the kids are young. You have to be willing to *let go*.) Well, here is the thing. They will be back sometime Wed and another DS flies in that day for our family Thanksgiving together. I asked DS what they plan to do for Thanksgiving dinner. DS said since we are getting the family together he wanted to have a turkey dinner. I suggested they make it easy on themselves for Thanksgiving and pick up the complete dinner from Safeway or someplace. DS got huffy and said if I don't want to help with fixing dinner that's fine. I said he is jumping to conclusions and I would be happy to help with salad and dessert. My prediction is that DS and DIL will be asking me to do this or that and I will not be able to refuse. I have to be a good guest after all. But if I am not cooking the whole meal, I would rather not do anything. I am happy to fix a salad and dessert, set the table, clear the table. I don't want to do the dishes - I have done my share thanks. What is the matter with me in my old age? Am I acting like the Queen Bee and have to have things my way now? I am sorry that I have conflicting feelings like this and actually feel guilty and a bit embarrassed that I feel this way. I understand how I feel and why I feel this way because there is history here between us. History has it, that DIL does not prepare any meal for us whenever we visit. She has her reasons too (being pregnant, being from another country, breastfeeding, having two little ones, not expected to entertain her DH family, a lot of hogwash IMO) and now I have my reasons for not wanting to cook. Nice power struggle I think I have got myself into and I want it to stop, and I cannot seem to get myself over the hump and let it go. How do I get out of fixing dinner -- I thought buying it at Safeway was a good idea. I really do want to cook because I do not want to get so involved with the meal that I end up doing more than my fair share? I would like to sit back with the GC, read, color with them, watch TV, go out for a walk anything other than pull the dinner together. I don't want to fix it because I think I am allowing DS/DIL to think it is okay to not fix a meal for us. By not fixing meals for us, we eat out more and that $$$$. And we have gone the route of take-out (and we still $$$$) plus there is no settling down at the table together like a family. No sit down meals in the past. The 2 and 4 year olds get fed separately by one parent, while the other parent eats, and then they switch. And then they tell us we can eat. It is very awkward. So DH and I plan now to eat meals out just the 2 of us when we visit - we don't feel hurt by no one fixing us a meal that way. We eat out and do not spend too much. We agreed to take the whole family out to eat for one big special dinner and that is what we did last visit. Nothing has really changed since the last time we visited this summer, from our point of view. Usually when we are with family I fix the Thanksgiving dinners and have plenty of help - and I have no complaints. But this time, I have conflicting feelings. DIL does not ever cook a meal for us...and that gets stuck in my *caw*. God being a MIL is not a fun role at all.
My think on this:
You are the guest so you shouldn't be expected to cook. So just don't expect to cook. Let them figure it all out.
(Spoken by one who hasn't cooked T'giving for years. We normally go out if we feel like a big deal meal.)
Ok. I'm going to try to say this as politely as possible in line with the rules of this forum.
OP, reading your post all I can do is put myself in your DIL shoes.
It is not her job to entertain/feed/cook for you when you visit. It is your sons.
There are a few lines you wrote that conflict with each other in terms of what your expectations are but I think this one sums it up. "But if I am not cooking the whole meal, I would rather not do anything."
You cannot expect to create rules in a home that is not your own. You are a guest in your DIL and sons house. And your DIL has two young children. She also has IL's staying with her. It sounds like she is stressed out and could use some help. If you do not want to cook fine, but do not expect to be cooked for either.
"I would like to sit back with the GC, read, color with them, watch TV, go out for a walk anything other than pull the dinner together. "
That really isn't fair. If my MIL showed up for a major holiday, didn't lift a finger and enjoyed my kids while I, already stressed out, slaved away cooking for my husbands family and didn't get to enjoy myself at all? That wouldn't fly. And my husband wouldn't dream of putting me in that position. He would do the cooking, handle the IL's and let me escape for some much needed R&R.
That being said, I am a very gracious host to my IL's when they visit, as they are to me when I go visit. So I can't identify much with your situation.
It is good you are here discussing your feelings.
And for me, I would never expect a guest to do my housework and cook for me. Maybe you should clarify what your son's house rules are as far as guests go? Do they put all their guests to work?
I think when you're a guest in someone elses house you should follow their rules. If you know what they are upfront, then you can decline or decide to go. So I tend to think knowing that they expect you to help out with the meal is something you need to decide if it is worth it enough for you to go.
Personally, I grew up with (and still host this way) is that I do all the cooking and cleaning. If someone pitches is or asks what they can do I'll take the help.
And I know having mismatched expectations can be very frustrating. My MIL has never hosted a meal on her own, she gives us recipes and things she wants us to make that are often both time consuming and expensive. And for her party. I know that for some families this is normal but for me, it makes me grit my teeth.
So knowing that I am the one who has an issue with it, I only go when I'm ok with making whatever it is she wants.
I do support you in this Smiles. This isn't your father's oldsmobile anymore. I have the same situation with the 'chaotic holiday dinners' which you described....labor intensive, expensive meals lovingly prepared that are eaten helter skepter. I'd just not do it any more. I'm not. I think you're worrying too much about it. I've already posted on here that I'm spending both holidays with my elderly mother, and sisters. Already told dd that, she said great, she and the boys would go also. No family dinners. The children can do what they want. I can't handle that chaos any more. But I will also say this, if my MIL were invited for dinner (and this had been the case more than once) I would not expect her to do a thing in the world except enjoy her visit and relax. It always gave me a great deal of pleasure to entertain that way, and I knew she really appreciated it. My rule is: if the meal means a great deal to someone, then its worth the trouble. If its just a meal, make it easy. We are all aging in my family, and none of us feels like all that cooking and cleaning any more. Let the kids do what they want, if he wants turkey, tell him you want the drumstick! Don't take a guilt trip. No offers to cook, clean or play the harmonica. You should get the place of honor. That's just my take on it.
Yes, Ruth - your support is very appreciated. It is just what I needed to hear. WHEW! Now I feel I can get on with living. AMEN!
Okay, I don't get this. Do they just buy a bird and 'hope' you'll cook it? Do they plan a meal and buy ingredients and then say "here you go, there's the bird, that's the oven, see you later"?
Smiles, there has to be a way for you to get out of cooking the whole meal AND not offend. So, say supper is at 5 pm, and the bird has to be in the oven by 11-ish, with the stuffing made by 10-ish. So YOU should be at the park with the GK's all morning. Or in the shower, or ANYWHERE else.
When supper's almost ready, you should offer to help out, because that would be kind. Set the table, make the salad, whatever you WANT to do. After supper, offer to clean the carcass and start some soup for the next day. Bustle around tidying, but DON'T take position at the sink. Grab a dish towel and offer to dry. Blame painful dry skin on your hands, even if they have gloves for you, the water still needs to be too hot to cut the turkey grease.
I have to say the image I have is of them being hesitant, or even inept and you stepping in to do things "the right way". Or, even, them being willing to let the dishes sit in the sink for a while, and you taking the initiative and just washing them already. I think you're going to have to step back and act clueless. Let them figure it out. If they ask your advice, either give it to them VERBALLY, or else tell them that they should google it because the rules are always changing.
Good luck.
Wow Scoop you got me - right here, my anxiety is in-between the lines. And I will keep re-reading your post because it is familiar and you show me the way. You paint a scenario that I have been in before, the *I don't know how to make mac and cheese and would I show DIL how*, and the *letting the dirty dishes sit in the sink up to the next meal and me stepping it up to clean them.* So I am trying to get a different role. I would really like to be able to step back and let them figure it out. I can see myself sleeping in on turkey day, and going out to breakfast with DH. And then calling to ask when they would like us to come over to take GC to the park. We can take GC out to lunch and that is the morning and afternoon. Then offering to help, set the table, make the salad sounds right to me. And then afterwards, offering to dry - thanks for the imagery and words Scoop. Google it to be sure cuz the rules are always changing.
I think we can get through this dinner. I just needed to have it spelled out for me, cuz sometimes it is not an act -- I am clueless. And then later, I am like, hey, did I just get manipulated? Thanks!
QuoteThey will be back sometime Wed and another DS flies in that day for our family Thanksgiving together. I asked DS what they plan to do for Thanksgiving dinner. DS said since we are getting the family together he wanted to have a turkey dinner. I suggested they make it easy on themselves for Thanksgiving and pick up the complete dinner from Safeway or someplace. DS got huffy and said if I don't want to help with fixing dinner that's fine.
My suggestion for next time is, don't ask! Someone invites you to a family Thanksgiving, say thank you. A few weeks out, ask if they'd like you to bring a pie (or a salad, or wine) to their dinner.
I mention I'm going to on a trip, and someone asks me how I'm getting to the airport. In my mind, why would they ask unless they're going to offer to drive me.
Quote History has it, that DIL does not prepare any meal for us whenever we visit. She has her reasons too (being pregnant, being from another country, breastfeeding, having two little ones, not expected to entertain her DH family, a lot of hogwash IMO) and now I have my reasons for not wanting to cook.
What I'm wondering, is what are
DS's reasons for him not scaring up some macaroni and cheese, salad and rolls?
Oh, I just saw this with Sassy's quote:
"DS got huffy and said if I don't want to help with fixing dinner that's fine. "
So it's ok with DS!
If you're going to be clueless about cooking, try being clueless about his moods! Just take his words!
Forgive me Smiles if I missed this somewhere but exactly how did this all come about? Meaning, did DIL/DS call you and invite you to come for Thanksgiving? Or did you guys plan a trip to see them that coincided with Thanksgiving?
The reason I am asking is if I am invited to someone's house for Thanksgiving, then I would expect to pitch in and help where needed (I offer that anywhere I get invited) but I wouldn't be expecting to cook the meal. If I invited myself and was asking what we were doing for the Thanksgiving, then I would would be willing to do more if not all of it if it was my idea.
Roroh -- on several accounts. I planned the visit with DS for Thanksgiving because they could not take time off from work in December to visit (supposedly - sorry, I do have doubts now). We could take time off from work for the whole Thanksgiving week to fly back east. (I don't want to fly across country at Christmas due to snowstorms possibly stranding us en route). Also, by visiting them when they could take time off from work besides getting to spend more time with them, it made it possible for us to watch the GC overnight so they could get away together (which they have been *asking* us to do for them). It was agreed upon. Then we paid airfare for one son to come see them at Thanksgiving too - so we could see him a couple days with all of us together and he could stay and visit a couple days after we leave too.
The other account of cooking Thanksgiving Day - I was willing to do all the cooking if they were on their get-away, otherwise, when they get back they could do it. I didn't realize until now that I caused the problem by opening my big fat mouth. Talk about clueless...so there's the problem -- it is me, again.
I think I have this licked though without blaming them. Sure it would be extra specially nice to have DS cook up something. What is his point to not cook? I think it is between him and his DW -- about who entertains us. Not that I want to make trouble for them at all. I will offer help of course, and specifically offer to do what I wholeheartedly want to do - make a salad, a dessert, watch GC, dry dishes and be clueless with the rest of the stuff for the rest of the time. Good thing I have WW help me think this through. Sorry for taking up so much time with it...I appreciate you all, and I am learning how to take a different perspective and be a good MIL. Thanks,
Topics like this are such a good exercise in judgement and a good opportunity to see other points of view. Thanks for bringing it up!
I don't think you caused the problem, sweet smiles. I just had to recommend a way I thought might help avoid stepping in something you don't want stuck on your shoe. For next time.
I know some people who come to me with their sob stories when they want a favor. In the interest of conversation, (that give and take) I used to ask them, what are they going to do? They were waiting for me to ask that, because it opened the door of figuring out how I could bail them out out. How many personal days do I have left? Maybe I could take one and watch their child, so they didn't get in trouble for staying home with their child, since their sitter is sick. (Unsaid: so they didn't have to find and pay for a new sitter). They knew if they just came out and asked me for the favor, it'd be easier for me to just say no. But by talking about it with me, and inviting me in for problem solving, I become vested in their finding an outcome. Too vested. With people who sort of set up scenarios like that, I learned to have two stock replies. For those I can be direct with, as soon as the story starts, I'll ask outright "What do you need?" For those who require sensitivity for political reasons, I say something neutral along the lines of "That sounds tough. I'm sure you'll figure something out, you always do" and change the subject. Whatever I do, I learned, in certain situations, not to ask a question unless I'm prepared to be part of the answer.
The history you explained about the cooking, which was what gave such heaviness to the idea DS was suggesting you cook dinner at his house, was that DIL does not prepare any meals for you and DH when you travel there. WW talk about expectations. More and more, I am believing gender roles might sometimes play a huge role in forming expectations that can set up disappointments. Especially in the MIL-DIL relationship.
I asked about what excuses DS gives for himself not cooking when you visit. Because even a man who does not often cook, can heat something simple up once in a while. DS can do it. Yet DS doesn't. I couldn't figure out why when his parents come from across the country, stay in a B&B and don't take over, and he knows his wife doesn't cook, why he doesn't offer to put at least one meal together for his parents. I think you're right its between husband and wife. And my guess is probably not about you at all! DIL sees DS doesn't making gestures to entertain, so she matches his efforts. Or perhaps DS wants DIL to make the efforts, "because she's the girl", and so he doesn't either, because it'sbecome a silly standoff of sorts between them. He could be a bit lazy when it comes to entertaining, and DIL limits are not to compensate for his laziness. Maybe they're both not much of entertainers. I don't know what's between them, but it's not you!
You do sound like a great MIL. I mean it. I heart you for the B&B. For your own self...when you're feeling resentful, it could be worth just "checking" to see how much you may be unconsciously mentally assigning your personal roles to others, just because they're the same gender or you see them in a similar position. I'm not sure, but it might play a part. "Checking" for that tendency, might help you see things differently sometimes, so you can enjoy your beautiful family more.
Good luck in getting these glitches smoothed out. It can be snarly business for sure. One thing that has stopped me from being excited about doing anything with family on holidays are these expectations. I am not much for sitting around, I love to be busy. It is very difficult for me to not want to cook or clean or something. My SIL is a fabulous cook and when I visit DD and family I usually never do anything. I discovered early on that me being in the kitchen was not necessary (ego thing for SIL). So, since everyone loves KFC (me not so much... ::).), on the day that SIL is not cooking I pick up KFC and all the trimmings for one night. As I am going through town I offer to stop there on my way to DD house. Easy for everyone. And I clean the kitchen with help from GC.
The difficult thing for me is that both DD and DS are last minute people. I am a planner. So I have no idea about the holidays, which is just awful for me. Again, I have learned not to push any plans I have on them.
Mostly, I just want to be in a foreign country over the holidays. And this has worked well for me on several occasions. I am looking at travel opportunities now~~~~~these posts help me think it's a great idea.... ;D
Thanks Sassy - I respect your response and questions. They are legit -- and all your possibilities for the dynamics between DS/DIL match up pretty good to what we have been considering. DH said the same about at least one meal DS could fix for us, or offer to pay for a meal when we go out together. Just offering to pay is enough for DH, who would then decline the offer and pay. I definitely need to check myself here...as I have exactly assumed that DIL should be like me...willing to do the cooking, agreeing to that wifely duty of entertaining the ILs. It really is a pleasure for me to entertain relatives - it is a lot of work, it really is, and tiring, but rewarding. I accept your compliments - thank you. I am reading I Don't Have To Make Everything All Better. It is in agreement with you -- Listen Listen Listen and Understand, but not to give advice or get involved in the solution. Being reflective and affirming to the owner of the problem is much more supportive - You'll figure it out, you always do. So I guess I am backing up here with DS/DIL to not say anymore about Thanksgiving dinner. If there is no big meal fixed, there is no big meal fixed. We will not go hungry I am sure. So I will not bring it up and if the subject comes up, I will say I am sure you both can figure out what to do for Thanksgiving, as you have done it before. And change the subject...we are looking forward to watching the GC for you two to get away and have some fun ideas to do with the GC. Thanks again Sassy for following up with me -- I think I am getting it.
Hey Bee - going overseas for holidays sounds wonderful! Maybe I should be thinking along those lines now that we probably will not be having everyone getting together? DH brought it up once about sightseeing at Christmas time when I was having my angst about holidays. Hope those airfares or cruises are available for you then? I relate to being a planner and it is hard to not to step in and take over. Not planning on my DS part is fairly typical. Since I am not going to be in charge of cooking, DH just last night said DS defers to not planning and so he predicts we will not have a special Thanksgiving meal. DH is okay with that, and offered that he will take me out for a nice dinner then, sweet man, and we both love to eat. I like your idea of picking something up for one of the family meals - really generous idea (aka KFC which is not my specialty either -- but I get the idea and alot less expensive than taking everyone out to a restaurant). Yeah, we find out there is more to life on WW than worrying about stuff that is not our business. Hugs back to you too Bee - thanks,
Smiles: When I started traveling on the holidays I was pleasantly surprised to find a zillion people who preferred to travel vs do all the chaos with their kids, IL, etc. My favorite has to be all the different places I have had pumpkin pie on Thanksgiving. And one year I volunteered to help with our big "free" Thanksgiving dinner here in my town. That was the best of all. I was in the dish room with all these other wonderful people who turned out to help make Thanksgiving a nice meal for people who would not have had a nice dinner otherwise. We fed over 3,000 people so you can imagine the dishes. It was delightful to work with so many neat men and women....And nobody was lounging around in another room watching TV while I slaved over stuff in the kitchen!!
that Thanksgiving sounds memorable Bee -- and a good idea for us at Christmas time too. I think I am getting the idea that holidays do not have to mean this pull and tug-of-war with family. I made a nice photobook of our visit in summer to GC and plan to read it to them when we visit. I will take more photos from that visit and make a book too. The GC will have memories of us and we will have photobooks to enjoy - minus the disappointments etc.
Smiles, you sound just like the kind of GM that I am. Our GC will have memories of us that are not filled with strife and conflict. Good for you!
We had the most awful Christmas last year, everything that could go wrong - did and we just sat around trying to be jolly for the sake of the GKs but we were really awfully heavy hearted. No details - I think you get the picture.
For this year we'll buy really nice presents for everybody, have a short farewell drink and take ourselves off to the other side of the world where we will visit lots of lovely friends and enjoy the summer sunshine! Call it hard-hearted, call it self indulgent but we will do it and all being well, everybody will have a good Christmas in the knowledge that everybody is doing their own thing and liking it. No pressure. Physical presence is not always necessary for families but somebody has to be bold enough and say: We enjoy doing our thing, you enjoy doing yours and if we spend Christmas together again it will be a very special occasion and not a chore!
I'm still not getting this division of "Your parents, your responsibility." Was there a marriage or not? When I married, I took on my ILs just as my DH took on mine. He has cooked for mine, I've cooked for his. We divvy up the entertaining chores based on our schedules and our skills rather than who is blood-related to whom. And I definitely do not understand expecting so much labor out of guests! When my GPs came to stay for the holidays they were my parent's honored guests, as my kid's GPs are treated when they come here. They helped out with little things when it seemed appropriate but were not expected to do the major portion of the work of feeding the family. I'm still shaking my head over that one.
Besides, those doing the long-haul travel have already pitched in quite a bit in money, effort and time. That's the major portion of your contribution to the holiday! IMO, the people lucky enough to stay home get the cooking chores (and the leftovers, lol.)
My DIL doesn't want to entertain us because she does not like us. Our DS on the other hand was raised to find the good in people and has figured out how to get along well with his wife's FOO. He lets what annoys him about them go (and there is plenty, BTW.) So we're being punished in a way because we raised a kind, caring man and DIL's FOO raised a snooty woman.
I don't know, Smiles...my hope is that you are cherished and valued by your family as you cherish and value them. I hope it all works out well. You deserve to be able to communicate w/o feeling you're going to blow it. I know I'm really tired of worrying about it with my DIL/DS...I doubt they're sitting at home worrying about how I feel!
*be bold enough and say: We enjoy doing our thing, you enjoy doing yours and if we spend Christmas together again it will be a very special occasion and not a chore!* thank you for this :)
Pen, I think the problem is when DH doesn't take his own parents or ILs on. It only seems to be a problem when DIL isn't doing it though.
Thank you all, I feel fortified and know I do not have to eat crow or cook a turkey. I shake my head too over all of this competition to NOT put out any effort to entertain relatives. I hope it is just this one DS who will feel this way. I have no excuse to let myself get *used* as I have options. I will continue to find a way to have fun over holidays (with or without family). It is very nice to feel okay about being together or not. The first one is always difficult - cuz it is new ground breaking rules. Thanks you all again.
Quote from: Begonia on September 23, 2011, 01:44:53 PM
My SIL is a fabulous cook and when I visit DD and family I usually never do anything. I discovered early on that me being in the kitchen was not necessary (ego thing for SIL). So, since everyone loves KFC (me not so much... ::).), on the day that SIL is not cooking I pick up KFC and all the trimmings for one night.
Three cheers for your SIL - can I adopt him please! :)
Chelms: LOL...yes, it is my SIL who has tried to reason with my DD about how lucky she is to have her parents, etc. SIL can cook things that are just awesome (DD doesn't cook--good for her). He could probably be a great chef but he is a welder and creates amazing things with steel too. He probably would love to be adopted since he really has no functional FOO. But be prepared for a huge grocery bill..he is 6'5"!!!
And I thought I was the only one with Thanksgiving Day woes. Last year my DS and DIL along with DGS invited themselves to dinner. Not that I minded. I liked the sense of family. DIL offered to cook a bird. Said no thanks. I have 5 children still at home. I shopped, cooked the meal and set the table with all the beautiful china, etc. While everyone relaxed I washed the dishes and cleaned up. They didn't even remove thier plates off the table. As my back and feet began to hurt from more than 2 hours of cleanup and all the cooking, I found myself getting madder and madder and resenting everyone. This year I'm going out to eat!
I have read your concerns and fears and I just have one question for you. When you were raising young children would you have appreciated any inlaws setting the rules in your household? I think your feelings about your visit and Thanksgiving dinner has the potential to eliminate future gatherings with your DS and his family. Please take this from a mom that has not had a family dinner, which I did every year and loved every minute; for five years. When our children want to hurt us or let us know their anger they take away something that they know is very dear to your heart and that is what my DDs have done with mom for all holidays. You are invited and you see your GC, I would take your place every day of the week instead of the past 5 years seeing neither of my GC or DD. You probably think, wow, this is one horrible mom? No, that is not so. I just wanted to be included in my DDs lives and pushed too hard so I was cut out entirely. Please don't let this happen to you. As parents they are figuring out their own rules and we need to take a back seat and let them figure it out. Good luck
Oh my, I'm guilty of some of those things. With the exception of my Mom, we have a deal with anyone we're going to invite / visit: "You don't work in my house, I don't work in yours". My SIL says that she LOVES it, because she KNOWS that she can clean her kitchen the way she wants to, and she can relax at our house without feeling guilty.
And I have had to pull back from doing all the work when the IL's come to visit too. But for me, it's because I'm not given enough notice for their visits. And, it's not really fair that I do all the work when MY family visits AND I do all the work when his family visits. Even then, it might be worth it if I got anything out of a visit with my IL's. It might even be worth it if I got a speck of appreciation from DH, for putting forth the extra effort. So if you look at it, for me, the state of my relationship with my IL's is only partly responsible. The biggest responsibility rests on the state of my relationship with my DH.
Smiles - it sounds like you've got your hear pretty well wrapped around the situation. I just have one more question?
What about your boys at home? What are they doing for Thanksgiving?
Perhaps i confused you somewhere but I have no boys. My twins girls are my only children. I just wanted to make you were aware that rifts can happen with our children even when that is not our intent. I don't pretend to understand my own situation; I love and worship my own family and my former inlaws and would never exclude them from anything I do. I have two wonderful, successful and responsible daughters and I have to remind myself that I was at one point a part of that equation. The holidays for me are still a struggle but I look to make someone else's holiday good, be it children in need or the elderly abandoned and I will try to make their holiday meaningful.
Enjoy your Thanksgiving and while you enjoy a toast with the family, think of me because i was born on thanksgiving day and know that i will be sending you good wishes
Momof7, welcome. If you haven't already done so, please take a minute to read the Forum Agreement and How This Happened under the topic Open Me First on the home page. It's important for us all to know the policies here and for newbies to decide if the site is a good fit. Your post is fine, by the way. Glad to have you aboard!
I think going out for that big holiday meal is a great idea - not possible for me, but I'd do it in a heartbeat if I could work it out.
Thanks Momof7 for that! When we get all together, we have 6 sons + 1DIL and 2 little DGC. It is a lot of work - ALOT! Before all the preparations and cooking are done, I too feel lower back pain, foot pain and plain old tired. My DH helps a lot and I like doing what I do or I wouldn't do it. We all have our limits at any age. My DH helps round up help from our family to clear table and do dishes, and put away left overs. This is new for me to not be in charge so a bit uncomfortable. I would like the chance to get used to it.
Smiles, I think this is a little like turning on the evening news and the leading story is what color Kate painted her toenails! At least we can console ourselves that nothing catastrophic happened that day if this was the best the reporters could come up with! Eat no crow, my friend. It is bad for the digestion and could cause....I'm sorry but can't pass this up you left yourself wide open....CROWS FEET!
Twinsmom - thank you for your energy here. I will keep looking for how to stay connected with my family. It is a big worry to be cut off. I am worried about pushing too hard from my POV too. Kinda feel like damned if I do, and damned if I don't. The inevitable is that we will not be able to see every one of our 6 sons every holiday - unless we all make that effort. Time off from work and being on different coasts play a bit part of making that effort. One son doesn't like to fly, so we will not have him for sure unless it is in his city. The other 3 sons live in his city and don't want to pay the airfare otherwise they would attend. The married with kids son (MWK) doesn't want to fly with little ones away from his home. So this Thanksgiving we are going to fly to his house to celebrate with GC and build the bond with them. Everybody has their POV, right? I don't want to fly, watch GC overnight a couple nights AND be expected to do all the cooking. I have limits too - buying a turkey dinner seemed reasonable and that didn't fly. So I am not making the rules that MIL has to cook and watch GC. I am willing to fly there and watch GC and give them something of what they want. Thanks for your warning, it is a real danger of being cut off if they do not get what they want. Sad but true. I am trying to keep my relationship with my DS strong to withstand disappointments on both sides.
Scoop - I could live with those hosting responsibilities because they are very straightforward, fair and comfortable. I like your honesty that you and DH play a part in how you feel about hosting. Might be the problem-o with DS/DIL? Good Q about our other sons :) Just yesterday we are firming up plans to drive 5 hrs, stay in a motel, over Veterans Weekend. We would like to fix a thanksgiving-type dinner and enjoy the weekend together (We drove over last Christmas and that's how we did it then, and it was fun). DS (33) said he wants to help fix the dinner but doesn't want to host at his apartment unless it is a last resort (gasp, get me a chair - how much does he want to do? I am going to have to let go of more control in the kitchen, but that's the future we are building here). We will cook and eat at other DS's apartment (24 and 26) and other DS will come join us (24 - yup we have twins too). Last Christmas DH and I did the planning, preparing, cooking, clean-up and saving of leftovers; but would like to do something easier for the dishes/ cleanup. It is not all about work, we played Wii, poker etc.). We usually have lots of help for cleanup when we host at our house and I would like to see more cleanup help this year at our holiday get togethers. So thanks for asking - they are important to us too.
Quote from: Ruth on September 26, 2011, 09:41:32 AM
Smiles, I think this is a little like turning on the evening news and the leading story is what color Kate painted her toenails! At least we can console ourselves that nothing catastrophic happened that day if this was the best the reporters could come up with! Eat no crow, my friend. It is bad for the digestion and could cause....I'm sorry but can't pass this up you left yourself wide open....CROWS FEET!
Good one Ruth :)
Just want to say one more thing and I appreciate your time here on this topic. This is my first DS married with kids, and I am trying to get it right. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings and I don't want to get hurt either. We all are changing our roles and there are bound to be misunderstandings and misinterpretations, upsets, unmet expectations etc. We are dealing with our feelings, not life and death issues. I don't want any cut-offs etc. Just trying to learn how to let go of my expectations. The devil is in the details. Thanks,
I don't like Thanksgiving. I'm such a slug. I have cooked for years. My kids expect to come home and mom will just cook. I should be happy they want to come home, since I complain DD never comes home!
My MIL and FIL used to announce they were coming from Florida for a visit. She never asked if it was okay or if I had other plans. She assumed because I had young kids, I would be available to put them up and cook all meals. I used to give up our master bedroom, cook day and night and take care of two little kids plus a stepson. My MIL never lifted a finger and played with the grand kids. She felt if she was spending the money to fly to me, she got to play. She never asked if I were free when she felt like visiting!
I was always upset with the whole thing. My dh never lifted a finger, because he doesn't cook. Yeah, nice excuse. One time, my in-laws called me up and said they were coming in a month. No holiday, just coming to see the kids. I said, "please book a hotel, as my kids are too old to share a room being a boy and a girl". I lose sleep and we don't have an extra bedroom. I offered to pay for the hotel and all. They got the hint that I wasn't giving up the master bedroom and stayed at hotels. They didn't like the one I booked, so I told them to book their own in the future.
I cooked some nights and other nights, I told DH... take us out for dinner, I'm not cooking. So, DH took us out for dinner every other night. My in-laws got the hint and paid for those dinners. So, my in-laws weren't coming on holidays and expected me, with two kids and a step kid to watch... to do everything and my DH sat by and let it happen. I put a stop to it. I told DH I wasn't giving up my sleep or room for them... or sleeping on the couch in the living room. I told him I couldn't cook for three extra people every night. I was tired. The other person being my stepson who came when his grandparents did.
Who was really to blame for this situation? I think my DH was to blame. He didn't offer to help, cook or do anything. He sat and drank wine with his folks, yapped, etc. I ended feeling like a slave and I was also breast feeding my youngest son. It is super hard to do all of that. Your son needs to help his wife. He really does. You are the guest and I think should not be expected to cook. Clean up, yes, definitely imho. Offer to help cook, it depends on if DIL needs help or not.
I'm wondering how much your son is helping his wife in all of this. Just some thoughts. I don't know the answer. I only know that I was so ticked that my DH would act as if I was the cook, maid and nurse. I made my DH step up to the plate. I told my in-laws I'd pay for rooming them in a hotel. I put the whole thing on my DH, as it was his parents. So, your DIL needs to tell your DS what she wants, she needs to tell you what she expects, etc.
I would not expect you to cook as a guest. My in-laws got the idea like you did and stayed at a hotel. They also got the idea and took us out to dinner. Now, this was not Thanksgiving. On Thanksgiving I went to my mother's house. I did none of the cooking. Now I do all of the cooking for Thanksgiving, but for all my belly aching, DD does help me cook the Thanksgiving meal. She loves to cook. I'd like reservations at a restaurant.
I would have loved a MIL that said to me, get it all at Safeway, don't worry about slaving over a stove! I would have slapped DH on the arm and said, "Go order Thanksgiving dinner for your parents!" LOL. I would have. I would have loved someone to tell me to order out, especially my husband's parents! I would have been kicking DH out the door to go order the food and then make him pick it up. I would not have expected my MIL to cook at my house.
Your DIL doesn't know when to say no and now she perhaps feels overwhelmed. I was exhausted nursing a kid and cooking for seven or more people. I finally did demand to go out! I'm making reservations for Thanksgiving this year. When the AC come home, expecting a home cooked meal, I'll be telling them, I have reservations!
I realize my answer doesn't help you, but to me, I'm wondering too what your son is doing to help his wife. I think what is going on Smiles, is that no one is telling you what they really expect and they expect you to be a mind reader. Perhaps asking them exactly what they expect out of you would be good... and then decide if you can handle it. Tell them to order at Safeway and you'll pay for it. That would have been my dream, but I'm not your DIL. I think you need to ask DS direct questions on expectations. Just lay it out on the table. They are having you guessing too much here. I'm with you thought... I'm sick of cooking for holidays!
SS you made me happy with your directness about a DIL POV. I really will keep dealing directly with DS and appreciate it really is not all about me. Thanks for your support on just buying a dinner and settle the issue that no one wants to cook ... this year. And bring it up for discussion again next year...it is just not okay to EXPECT ANYONE to cook. (Sad maybe but true).
Since we're having honest-DIL conversations here (when do we not?). I have to say, there's NOTHING like your Mom's home-cooking.
Whenever my Mom comes for more than a few days, I make sure to ask her to make meatballs for us (to put in the freezer). I *can* make them, and they're 'okay', but hers are DEE-LICIOUS! And it's a lasting thing, because weeks later when we eat them, we talk about "Grandma's meatballs".
So maybe, you could consider it a compliment that they want YOUR cooking?
My family has tried to use this~~~"Oh, you make the best_______" And I am a good cook. I am just totally tired of 40 years of buying groceries, cooking, cleaning and then being left by myself with a ton of laundry, dirty dishes and leftover food. Oftentimes while the family watches some football game on TV. Call me a spoil-sport but I still work full-time, have nobody here except my cats to rely on (and they are not good at food prep or dishes) and I decided about 5 years ago that I will not put myself through that anymore. Especially when DS and DD are "iffy" and the weather might get bad or a kid get sick, etc.
I am always on pins and needles, never expecting them to show up (lots of different excuses) and often hours or a day late. So, no more entertaining for me. Perkins makes a really good pumpkin pie. ;) ;)
begonia, your solution was there with you: Let the cats help! A few cat hairs in your specialty dishes would have made everyone more than eager to do the cooking or go out.
For the original thread, I offer a third solution to cook turkey or eat crow. Become a vegetarian. They want you to make the TG meal, fine. A big bowl of cornflakes for everyone.
Smiles, I was thinking about this thread again last night and also with Scoop's last comment, I think she has a point. I look forward to Tgiving with my FOO b/c of my gramma's mashed potatoes, no one can make them like her! There is no recipe.
And it got me thinking that perhaps your DS not only wants Momma's cooking (which I think is a huge compliment) but may be eager to share the experience with his DW. I know I was excited the first time my Gramma cooked for DH and I, I wanted to show him. And he loves making his family recipes for me. I think it is a bonding experience for everyone.
Not saying that you have to cook or anything, but really, I think it is quite a compliment that they want you too.
Bee and herbalescape - thank you again for your sympatico. It is my feeling that I am *waiting* on family too much. When I visit, if I don't cook, then I know I have to fend for myself from experience cuz no one is cooking or paying for my food. Like it or lump it, it is what it is until it isn't like that anymore, right?
We will spend TXG week with DS/DIL/GC. They will fly to CA to spend Christmas with DIL family and also see my aging parent. We are invited to see them in CA if at all possible. I have half-a-mind to do it too.
Scoop and Pam - Sure *nothing says loving like cooking from the oven and Momma does it best* That's a compliment I will accept at face value and keep separate from the *Other Issue* which is that when I visit, if I don't want to cook, well, then I don't have to cook, I just can't expect anyone is going to cook for me. I guess that is how it is until it isn't anymore.
Learning to live and let live.
Smiles, I hope it all works out and you can relax and enjoy your family. Maybe cook DS's fave and order the rest? I think paying for airfare & lodging is more than enough.
Thanks Pen I heart you, thanks. Also, I do love DS/DIL/GC and I am learning truly that love is a powerful healer. Sending you love right back :)
Or Begonia, hit them back with "Awww Thank you! And you guys do the best at dishwashing and cleaning everything up, so this will work out great!" ;D
LOL!
You know being mothers, we can hear a comment from kid and always make it walk on all fours. It is likely that ds had a sentimental moment and it flew right out of his head 5 min later Smiles. Do what you want, whatever you do is loving and appropriate, knowing you as I do (!) so I think you should just enjoy your day and as your kids see you happy, that will make them happy.
Quote from: Ruth on September 29, 2011, 07:24:36 AM
You know being mothers, we can hear a comment from kid and always make it walk on all fours. It is likely that ds had a sentimental moment and it flew right out of his head 5 min later Smiles. Do what you want, whatever you do is loving and appropriate, knowing you as I do (!) so I think you should just enjoy your day and as your kids see you happy, that will make them happy.
Haha! I've never heard of that saying before, funny! Did you make that up?
Quote from: Ruth on September 29, 2011, 07:24:36 AM
You know being mothers, we can hear a comment from kid and always make it walk on all fours. It is likely that ds had a sentimental moment and it flew right out of his head 5 min later Smiles. Do what you want, whatever you do is loving and appropriate, knowing you as I do (!) so I think you should just enjoy your day and as your kids see you happy, that will make them happy.
Pam your highlight of what Ruth said brought it to my attention. Ruth this is so wise! I can use a dash of this right now. Let myself feel the happiness and let it beget more happiness.
well there are just all kinds of women on my various family trees, most of them eccentric but lovable, there are cookers and non cookers, church ladies and stinkers.
We should try to not cookie cut ourselves into ideals the way we do. I have some of the most flamboyant female clientele older ladies, I do wish I could write a book about them all. Once I thought I'd do that and call it Southern Portraits, no energy for it any more. ... But the point is, the self confident women who are fine with who they are, are loved and enjoyed by their families for the most part. How unfortunate that so many of us had to lose the luxury of feeling comfortable in our own skin due to bad choices which penned us with that scarlet letter.
That's when I became a paper doll, I remember at some point making the decision that I had to become someone else, because the woman I was was unacceptable. ....I walk the path I have to, and I do it without crying in my beer, but I would like to know when and why it became right that a grueling childhood excused one from being accountable for any and all decisions made at the age of adulthood and/or accountability? My own foo was a dangerous and undesirable place to be born, but it never presented to me a reason that justified poor decisions in adulthood, nor did it lessen the core primal appreciation for at least being given a chance at life. I don't know how I wandered off into all that??? I'm sorry turkey/smiles. I have the flu and seem to be wandering in and out of lucidity
My goodness how things have changed since I was doing all the cooking when inlaws and parents came to visit me 35 to 40 years ago. I wouldn't have thought for a minute that any one of them should take us out for dinner or cook for themselves!
I really hope your THanksgiving is good and you have a nice time.
I recall when my DD wouldn't come to my apartment when she was a young mom. She had always so many excuses. So on THanksgiving I brought the turkey and all the fixings and cooked at her place. She said she missed the special dishes that I had always made, and that made me feel pretty special myself so I enjoyed doing it. Sorry to say it didn't change our relationship, but at least those days, on which she also would invite quite a few friends over as well, were a bit of fun and forgetting our usual tumultuous relationship.
The last time I went to visit her after I moved some 1000 miles away, I bought her the groceries and cooked then too, and I didn't mind doing it since she was working full time and I knew if I didn't cook there wasn't going to be much decent eating going to happen.
She was nice enough to take me out for dinner two times over the week! But so much else happened that week that was just not ok that I've not gone again. I made the mistake of staying with her. If there is another time, I will definately not stay with her unless she thinks of it and invites me to stay there. Even though there was plenty of room and beds I realized later that it was just too close quarters for her with her mom now that she had built a life of her own. I don't know for sure of course, but she was probably thinking that I wouldn't approve of some of the things that she was doing, which, honestly, even though I didn't say so, it wasn't what I had hoped for her in life.
I'm hoping we all have a good thanksgiving, one that is grateful for healthy children, even if we aren't all together this year!
Hope you are feeling better soon Ruth and I liked that you are empowered to have a wonderful life, despite your FOO issues. Maybe my DS had that lovely thought of how neat it was when he was a kid to have Mom cooking meals and wanted me to hear that. I will try to be more open to accepting compliments without thinking they are meant to manipulate me to cook or something.
Elizabeth - you and I are probably cut from the same cloth, very practical when it comes to holidays. If they can't come to you, you can bring yourself to them. I understand *too close quarters* in many ways for whether to stay together over holidays and I appreciate your waiting for DD's invitation to do that. How will you celebrate THG this year I wonder?
BTW, I am one with deep FOO issues that I got counseling for after a friend suggested it to me. I honor WWU members who post and seek help as well as those who post and offer help. It is a risk of some kind when you say how it is for you, and see yourself through others eyes. You may get new thoughts that cause you to change and that takes effort. So thank you all on everyone's part, I appreciate your input on my THG issue. The focus I gained here on being a GP and MIL will help me over the holidays.
And I have decided to be a little helper with THG dinner if asked, and respect how they do the dinner and everything by keeping my opinions to myself, being cheerful and willing to help in some minor way. I am sure they will appreciate whatever I do to help because I will have flown across country, paid for my own lodging, babysat for their 2 night getaway and then not got underfoot when we are all together. What else says loving than to honor that I am a guest in their home, and not in charge?
Thanks for giving me your insights to help me find my way. Love to you all, peace.
This is such an enlightening thread!
Just yesterday my DD posted on my FB wall that she appreciated my tomato soup recipe and she shooed her DH out of the kitchen to make it herself for her family on Saturday.
The wheel of life is turning and we hang on and let go at the same time. I know that the memories she has of me cooking in the kitchen for our family are dear ones. As they are for me. But things change.
A few years ago I made recipe books for both my DD and DS that include all the favorites from me, my mom and grandmom--even photocopies of the recipe cards that all of us had written for things--like choc chip cookies etc. Both DD and DS remark on "I made this....."
I know that DD and DS wish we could go back to those days, before they left for college and life became complicated. I protected them so much. I never wanted them to have unhappiness and I know they felt the same for me. So the problem might be that we all want that dream back, devoid of all the bad things we have now forgotten.
Thinking of this now, after reading all these posts, I think women are made strong because we have to be the ones to let go--it is inevitable that time moves on...that my DD and DS will have their own recipes and their children will equate those recipes with their own sense of home and happiness. Personally, it is a bit difficult to be a guest at a holiday and not the one doing all the nurturing through food, even though I don't want to do that anymore, if that makes sense.
I think this is why there is a sadness at holiday time...things are never the same as the year before. And I am heartened by my DD post to let me know that even if I was not there to be with them they were still "saving a place for me" by making one of my recipes. That was very special for me to know---such a wonderful gift.
Baby steps...I am learning that letting go does not mean being forgotten. I do not have to remind my DD or DS to remember me; if I just am patient enough they will show me that their path is different but still special. Every day I let go of a bit more anxiety.
As always, thank you WW for your big hearts and acceptance of all our different stories.
Oh Bee, nicely said, warm feelings, love the acceptance and attitude that all is not lost. Love you for this vision of how it was, how it is and how it goes on to the parents from their children. Thank you for showing up here and for me, I heart you lots. :)
Very nice post, Begonia...thanks for sharing.
profoundly expressed, Begonia! Aren't you amazed how far you've come since that first post? You passed the honeymoon phase and earned your wings!
Thank you, Ruth, Rose & Smiles....I feel as if you are friends and we are here for each other! Yes, I am so glad to be where I am now, and so proud of how I have conducted myself--just rising up to be who I am instead of asking my AC for permission to be.
My greatest accomplishment as a mom is to know my AC are great parents and are able to negotiate all these troubled times without relying on me. Sometimes a hard pill to swallow, but with WW help I feel so much more "adult" about looking at how I was enabling and trying to control my AC. So nice to just let go.
I thank all of you and Luise for making this site possible and for her "tough love." It really set me back to hear that I was a person before I had kids and I would/could be a person now too. Wow. Bless all of you a million times and peace on your journeys.
My feelings too..love to you all.
Luise calls us her "cyber family"....I like it!
Quote from: Pooh on October 04, 2011, 05:31:43 AM
Luise calls us her "cyber family"....I like it!
Thanks for reminding us Pooh! That's what we are a cyber family. Isn't the internet a great thing when people like us use it for the benefit of all. My thoughts are always with my family and friends but with also this virtual community of wise women, amazing. I wouldn't want to be part of any other cyber community but this one is great.
It such goes to show that what some philosophers call a 'genius loci, the spirit of the place' - really does exist - only here it is not a confined geographical space but the world. Wow!
... and no I'm not an insomniac, just live in Finland where we are a few hours ahead, it's only 5.15 pm now. Cheers!
You are so right chelms. It's amazing how spirits unite!
I agree too Chelms. I have never been interested in blogs or other kind of things on the internet. I have a facebook page and check it now and then, and post occassionally but WWU is quite different. This is a very special place thanks to you alll.
Quote from: Begonia on October 03, 2011, 03:48:36 PM
Just yesterday my DD posted on my FB wall that she appreciated my tomato soup recipe and she shooed her DH out of the kitchen to make it herself for her family on Saturday.
Begonia -- just saw this in re-reading old threads. So you have a good tomato soup recipe? Is it vegetarian? Why not share the recipe? I'd love to try it.