What You Did Wrong

[LaurieS]

Creme  ... I for the life of me can not think of myself or any mother as "the other woman" and accept this as being the norm.  Throughout the life of your child the relationship changes it's not only as he is getting married.  I feel that my son was ready to make that decision, he had broken the bonds of Mommy long ago.  We allowed and encouraged this growth process to take place at the age appropriate times.  His collective memories do not have Mom and Dad in the background constantly.  Maybe some mothers cross that invisible line, but I feel that most are trying hard to teach their children about independence. 

When I speak of balance it begins with having found balance in my own life.  I did not put on hold my life while I catered to my children but instead would strive for blend to meet everyones needs.  We lived continuously working towards our dreams and goals because our thoughts were how could we raise balanced children if they are not constantly working towards their goals while seeing that  we value our dreams as well.  Few people have 'dreams' that exclude others from sharing their experiences.

Unfortunately, like many we have both suffered from loosing a child.  I myself had 3 miscarriage, one later in the pregnancy, and ectopic pregnancy and even had an abortion by choice when younger.. but I can't fanthom placing my living son in the same category when speaking about loving him.  I lost those pregnancies, my son is alive and kicking and by gosh  I have not now or  ever will loose him to marriage. 

If you came to the conclusions you have in order to find a way to have a healthy relationship with your son, then I applaud you for doing what was necessary in order to survive.  I for one can not look at my relationships with my kids anywhere near the same as you, nor would I ever encourage other woman to take a defeatist role in hopes of having a relationship with someone who you've had a relationship with for years.  I  think your post are swinging to far on the  pendulum, and I don't feel  that you have to have the 'perfect' world to achieve balance.

[barelythere]

It is very hard for me to look at a Mother's situation with her son, grown or not and realize he might think. "Mom's human now. Wow.  I don't like what I see".

I think to myself, "you poor little thing.  You had life as a bed of roses.  We were there for you every day of your life, never witheld anything from you; you never endured one single loss.  You were sent you to the best university and were given a house full of love and devotion.  We denied ourselves a better life because we wanted more for you.  I don't think you have one thing to complain about".

I've just about had a belly full of blaming me and the best Dad in the world...."you owe respect and honor to us.  You do." 

[kathleen]

So well said, BT!  Kudos and big baskets of flowers to you.

Kathleen

[1Glitterati]

Hi ladies.  My ods is coming over tomorrow to celebrate his birthday with us.  I doubt his new wife will be with him.
Glitter, my ods is not one to admit that he made a mistake, he would rather stay in the relationship than admit to a mistake.    If ndil is doing this only 4 months into the marriage, ready to run over the least little thing, what does the future hold?  I agree, I think he should run, fast & far, which is sad.  Ods says he will hve nothing if his marriage doesn't work out.  He will have his pride, his self esteem, & his family.  He thinks thereis no one else out there for him, that his life is over if this marriage doesn't work out.  It sounds like he only married so he wouldn't be alone, not because he loved her.  All of his friends are with someone, & he felt he should be too.  Both ods & ndil rushed into this, they don't really know each other. 

Well...if he'd rather suffer than admit a mistake, then don't feel sorry for him.  Bed.  Made.  Lie.

I would say that the future doesn't look bright, Anna.  Second marriages have an even higher divorce rate than first marriages.  HIs new wife has one failed marriage and parents who successfully sued her for gp rights (which grandparents hardly ever get so that is an amazingly huge red flag about your new dil), not of that would make me feel warm fuzzy inside.

I'm sure people will think I'm cold, but as they grow...I will clearly send a message to my boys that they should pick partners w/out children and previous marriages and w/out a couple of tons of baggage.  No sense in tying yourself to a drama llama situation.  If they choose to do so anyway...I'll keep my mouth shut and hope for the best.

[Pen]

BT, good post. DH & I have actually been put down by DIL for being losers because we don't have a big showy display of bling. We chose to pay for DS's education and provide other experiences for our kids rather than spend for show. A little recognition for our hard work and sacrifice would be nice! At least DS stands up for us in that regard (most of the time.)

[cremebrulee]

LaurieS
Creme  ... I for the life of me can not think of myself or any mother as "the other woman" and accept this as being the norm.  Throughout the life of your child the relationship changes it's not only as he is getting married.  I feel that my son was ready to make that decision, he had broken the bonds of Mommy long ago.  We allowed and encouraged this growth process to take place at the age appropriate times.  His collective memories do not have Mom and Dad in the background constantly.  Maybe some mothers cross that invisible line, but I feel that most are trying hard to teach their children about independence. 

I appreciate that and  how you feel and perhaps I didn't explain it properly...what my counselors said, "you have two women fighting over one man, a mother and DIL...therefore, it is similar to a love triangle"...minus the physical intimacy...but we have mental intimacy with our children, and do does DIL...

I cannot speak for you or anyone else here, however, that is what also helped me to snap out of it so to speak...

When I speak of balance it begins with having found balance in my own life.  I did not put on hold my life while I catered to my children but instead would strive for blend to meet everyones needs.

I did, and a lot of mothers due, as the nurturers of the family we give up certain things...I myself, didn't have time for myself, after working full time, all the running around, house work, cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping and weekend getaways in the summer...we all strive to meet the needs of others, especially those in our families...but there were dreams of travel and art, and so many other things, that we either couldn't afford to do, or were just to busy, and on weekends, any down time I got was me time to cook or bake or just rest a little...I also did gardening and put up 300 jars a year. Plus we had horses.

We lived continuously working towards our dreams and goals because our thoughts were how could we raise balanced children if they are not constantly working towards their goals while seeing that  we value our dreams as well.  Few people have 'dreams' that exclude others from sharing their experiences.

your right, when my child was young, my dreams included him, and my husband, however, when he grew older, he wanted to be in so many activities, and saving for college, I had to put some dreams on hold...

Unfortunately, like many we have both suffered from loosing a child.  I myself had 3 miscarriage, one later in the pregnancy, and ectopic pregnancy and even had an abortion by choice when younger.. but I can't fanthom placing my living son in the same category when speaking about loving him.

I don't think I ever suggested that I loved those babies as much as I love him, what I was trying to say, and forgive me again, for not making myself clear...is, that, because I lost those babies, he was very near and dear to me...and to me, loosing those children, was devestating, b/c I wanted a huge family...many here equate the loss of they're sons to a death...and I believe them...b/c I was there and felt the same thing, and many times expressed it, saying, "this is like a death"...so is divorce...

I lost those pregnancies, my son is alive and kicking and by gosh  I have not now or  ever will loose him to marriage.

Maybe loosing him is a bad choice of words, I dunno, the point I'm trying to make is, that once they are married, our lives change, they are not the same any more, while for those mothers who do get along with they're kids...they say, they've moved on.  I have one neighbor who has 3 sons...one of them calls her or stops by every week, one of them oh, maybe she talks to him, once every other week or once and month, and the other she rarely hears from...however, they do all rally around each other when there is a problem going on, and she has a DIL that occassionally she has problems with, nothing like any of us, however, she told me, it is what it is...I backed off and she's fine...and every once in a while she gets really moody, I don't take it personal...that is just the way she is, period". 

If you came to the conclusions you have in order to find a way to have a healthy relationship with your son, then I applaud you for doing what was necessary in order to survive.  I for one can not look at my relationships with my kids anywhere near the same as you, nor would I ever encourage other woman to take a defeatist role in hopes of having a relationship with someone who you've had a relationship with for years. 


It isn't a defeatist role, not in the least...its an independent role on my part and his part, and the way I raised him...I realize, he has a wife, he's very very busy with they're lives...he lives far away, and if he's happy, that's all I could ever wish for him...I'm living my life differently now, which is my balance...now I have time to travel, cruise, go out to dinner with my friends...and I have the money to do so...I love my life...but there are times, when I remember my son, as a child, and do miss that...but it is not or never will be a defeatest role...and I would never encourage any woman to do so either...

I  think your post are swinging to far on the  pendulum, and I don't feel  that you have to have the 'perfect' world to achieve balance.

my world works for me...which may not work for anyone else here, however, I do have a network of friends who live the same kind of life as I do...is my world perfect, for me it is...and personally, you view my posts as the other end of the spectrum b/c you don't don't agree, which is fine..honestly, but I'm very happy in my world and free of the drama....which is a God sent.

I've shared with you words which are from other counselors, and online quotes from counselors, it's up to you to pick and choose what you prefer...and I wouldn't dare say anyone here is wrong for not believing that way...it's what works for different people, and that is the main purpose of my posts...to explain that there is no right or wrong answer or person, it all has to do with personal culture and beliefs...

[cremebrulee]

kathleen
Hello all suffering MIL's.
I've noticed a "thread" in so many of your posts, and mine.  And that is, "What Did I do Wrong?" 

Hi Kathleen, I was wondering?  Do you know what it means when someone says to you..."There is no (right or wrong) answer? 

Just b/c you feel I'm wrong, doesn't mean your right, or if I feel your wrong doesn't mean I'm right, and it doesn't mean that either of us are bad people....what it means is, that I wasn't raised in your family your culture....

1.  a culture is An integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon the capacity for symbolic thought and social learning

2.  The set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution, organization or group or family....

meaning, there is not one family who is like another, and while you were raised with family values, beliefs and personal institutions, doesn't mean your wrong, and your DIL is right....or visa versa, what it is, is two cultures clashing....

In other words, how did you personally cause this situation with your son and daughter-in-law? 

Questions you should definately be asking both your DIL/son...with the ability to assume responsiblity if they say something like, "well, mom, you come over a little to much, or you call a little to much, or you just took way to much for granted concerning our child".  And I'm not saying any of this is you Kathleen or anyone else here, what I'm saying is, you've got to be ready and willing to listen and then ask....

What could I have done differently? 

The very first talk I had with my son, about this situation, after 12 long years was my first question..."What can I do to make this better, to change this?"  He was very surprised and didn't know how to answer, but he knew I was very sincere and wanted to know the truth of my wrong doings....which I was not only ready to listen and not get defensive, but also, I so wanted to change it....I was sick of the pain, heartache and loss....and would now do what was necessary to change not only my attitude, but the situation.  And it doesn't happen all at once, as long as it took for me to get to the point, it's going to take just as long for change and trust to rebuild....just b/c we say we're sorry, doesn't convince them that I was ready to back off and allow them they're lives without interference. 

I don't know why it took me so long to get it, b/c I felt the very same way as a DIL, simply smothered beyond patience and tollerence.

But you have to be ready to hear "you were wrong when you did this or that, and no matter how small of an issue you think it is....it's a big one to them or her".  You cannot say, "wull I did this b/c, or acted like this B/c, because when you do that, your saying, I didn't do anything wrong....and I was right for acting like that...which translates to them that, "I won't change" and your not really ready to see things from they're point of view, right or wrong, there is no right or wrong answer, it's about culture and the way you were raised, compared to the way she was raised....which conflicts, and distances them from you....if your looking for excuses to call them, and you keep calling them, but they don't respond, it's b/c they feel your calling to much, and they don't want you to....period....and Kathleen, or anyone else here, I'm using these examples as examples and not anyone here....but just trying to explain, when you get to this point, that your asking these questions....and you truly want change, your going to have to be ready to assume some ownership in this, so that your son and DIL do feel comfortable around you again and know that you mean business that you will respect they're boundaries, even if you don't like it....if you do, your going to get along better with them, if you don't and you keep on, they will continue to distance you....
and this may not apply to anyone here....just my thoughts...

Creme

[kathleen]

I'd be glad to hear anything from my son & DIL.  I'd be glad for any opportunity to go to their home.  I'd be pleased with any possible opportunity to talk this out.  This is a total cutoff from their side.  And I have trouble with the "blame the victim" mentality.  My husband and I did not create this situation.

This post started out with my experience with my son & DIL that no matter what I do, it will be incorrect from their view, no matter if I turned around the behavior and acted 180 degrees differently the next time, at which point we would be back to square one with "that's wrong too."   If my son and DIL's "shared set of values" mean they can take large amounts of money, gifts, time, affection, and love, and return nothing but silent contempt, then you are absolutely correct that this is not a shared set of values.

Thank you, Laurie, for words of wisdom from Shakespeare.  Like you, I have a bottom line of what I will accept and what I won't.  I passed that bottom line quite a while ago.

Kathleen

[lgrover]

Kathleen
I can't describe how much you helped me with your divine post but I'm sure you know the feeling of "YES, that's the truth." I've come to the same conclusion. My only answer is, it's life. Most of it makes sense to me and I see the discourse taking place but there are still those unanswered questions. Now if I can just overcome my own dependency on having children lol. I suppose I have to keep on keeping on. I pray and that's all the solace I get.  I have so much to be thankful for but staying focused on the good things isn't always that easy. I have a wonderful husband and my boys treat me with love and respect. My boys are kind to me and aren't dependent on me emotionally. My daughter, whom I thought would be closest to me, hates me. She is only 19 years old but she can still say things that cut to my core. If I could go back and do things differently, I would have disciplined her more with no exceptions. Had I known that not making her clean her room or do the dishes would have turned her into someone who is selfish and hates me then I certainly would have made her wash those dishes lol. I know it goes deeper than that. We all do. But in the end, mothers are humans; we are daughters; we are people too. I don't think children see us as people. But we are and I plan on substituting mine and my daughter's relationship with this website. I've decided that every time she hurts me; I will come here. Every time I miss her; I will come here. Every time I question my very existence and God; I will come here:) I don't mean for it to substitute God, but in the past I've just "hoed" this on my own behind closed doors with my tears and my God. But I don't think God is the one blaming me or hurting me and I believe that he will connect us with others to help with our pain. Many times when my daughter is at her meanest, I think of God and if he could talk and I could hear him in an audible voice I think he would say, "Leslie, I've got this and I know what I'm doing, now just let me take the wheel." (If all goes well, I won't turn into that selfish child that I despise so much:)
Thank you
Leslie

[kathleen]

L,

Thank you for your beautifully written post.  I am hastening to write to you immediately to say your situation of feeling you did not discipline your daughter enough is not the reason, in my strong opinion, for her treatment of you.  Please do not buy into this; (you are obviously a very caring, loving parent.)  Because my son was disciplined, he was required to do chores, I was determined that he would have a work ethic when he grew up.  And now I hear through the grapevine that he feels I was too harsh.  And likely you would be hearing that now, too, if you had been more demanding.

By the time my third one was born, I was tired!  I couldn't face more rounds of arguing over chores, etc.  So basically I did the cleaning and the cooking and this left him free to practice his music, which he did, and now he makes his living at it.  And guess what, he is our most devoted child.  He's a bit inept sometimes in cooking for himself now that he's grown, but he's a good person and a loving son.  So the fact that you were easy on your daughter is not the cause of the situation, I don't think. 

I, too, had to accept a lot of very hateful words from my problem son, when he was still in my life as a teenager and didn't get his way.  You'd have to be a saint not to react to it and I never figured out how not to.  Parenting books aren't much help when you are standing nose to nose with a raging teen flinging hard words like swords around the room.  Ah, the battles of parenthood; I was so romantic about it when I was young!

She is only nineteen.  Take heart: she is still very young and may well grow out of this stage of rebellion; she may be more testing her wings than actively hating you.  I've learned they need to rebel.  Some do it more destructively and openly than others.  My third son was well out of basic college before he decided to try and ignore every piece of advice we ever gave him.  Fortunately, his rebellion wasn't the Sherman burning Georgia kind of warfare.  You may be quite surprised ten years from now that your girl has matured into a very loving, devoted and kind daughter.  She is trying to find her way.  Please don't give up on her yet in the sense of thinking this is her basic personality.  Remember that many of the adult children discussed on this list are really well into adulthood and there is less hope.

Children often do not see us as humans, as you said in your very correct point.  But my oldest son says you do not grow up until you see and acknowledge your parents as humans.  I suspect a boatload of immaturity still left in my middle son, who has cut us off, even though he is a father himself now.  Good luck in getting through this "stage," soft word for what you are going through, and let's hope she soon recognizes what a wonderful mother she has.

Kathleen

[MotherOf3]

This is very dear to me. "We took them to Disney World twice, summers they went back alone with me to my home of origin and spent time in old fishing cabins on a lakeshore, and later he had a trip to Europe and went back for a whole summer to study there.  Today, not directly but through the grapevine, he tells us he is rejecting us partly because we didn't have "normal" family vacations where we all went for two weeks in the winter to a South Seas island..."

When I was growing up my parents never took us 4 kids to an amusement park.  We went fishing, camping, to Yosemite, Grand Canyon, drives halfway across the country to visit relatives, and trips to the ocean.  I don't think I missed anything at all and I treasure these memories with my parents.  I went to an amusement park when I was an older teen and I went to Disney Land for the first time when I was mid-40s.

You can only give your children what you feel is the best for them and maybe like me, the best is what you had growing up.  If they grow up and are ungrateful then, that is their cross to bear, not yours.  I truly believe that as our children get older they will come to realize the love that we showed them in this way.

[Nana]

The best times I had were those spent with my parents.....and siblings doing things together as a family.  I miss those times.....they were such a joy.  I dont remember either being taken to amusement parts (probably they did not exist lol), but I do remember spending two months summer vacations in our house near the beach, and so many other things. 

Our parents gave as as much as they could.....with all the love they had.  We paid it forward to our children...and they will to their children.  I could never complain to my parents for not giving me vacations or things that I did not have .    I can only thank them for the good times we had together and all the love they had for me.

Hugs