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Love is Patient

Started by Hope, September 18, 2010, 10:01:07 PM

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barelythere

Hope, that is extraordinarily wonderful to be able to have a small talk with your son.  I'm sorry his life is not good with his wife but at least you know it's not you!  It's her and I guess it always is about them but it's hard to get that through our heads when it seems directed at us. 

Hope

Quote from: Julia on September 19, 2010, 02:41:45 AM
I am with you all the way, you are doing a good job as a mil and know how to do it well.   I say  this  because it is so true, you can't win with those two,   they are what they are.... you are not a mindreader, she will go on and on making you feel you have have made all the mistakes!!! she wants power and is insecure in her life,  if you don't keep your distance you are giveing her more power to be nasty to you if you do keep your distance you take away her power..yaaa..she won't like that.
Julia,
Thanks.  I found a lot of comfort in your words.  If keeping our distance is taking away her power to find fault in us, I like knowing that we have that anyway.  I think you are absolutely right - as long as we are interacting, she will make me feel as though I have made all the mistakes.  I do say some dumb things at times and I do make mistakes, but I am not alone.  Your words gave me strength and I appreciate you. ;)
Hugs, Hope

luise.volta

Good for you! Remember this...the only people who aren't making mistakes are the ones who aren't doing anything!
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

Hope

Quote from: cremebrulee on September 19, 2010, 03:59:56 AM
Hi Hope
welcome back....

The first few things she said, I'm interested in knowing what your answers were to her
I'm going to insert some answers I would give...
Quote1.  She feels akward with our family b/c we are very different than hers.
I'm sorry you feel that way, hopefully in time, you will feel more comfortable..getting to know the diversity of different family cultures, other then your own, must be hard...however, yes, everyone, every family is different...and I realize, it is an adjustment....one of which takes time and open discussions...when your feelings are hurt, please discuss it with you, b/c you are the last person we would want to hurt.
If you have any questions, don't be afraid to ask or come to us...
Quote2.  She mentioned that she notices the "in law" factor when she's with us.  She said that she feels that she has to be careful what she says around us because she doesn't want to say anything wrong.  However, we have never ever made a point to correct her or disagree with her, so I'm not sure why she feels this way.  We feel like we are walking on egg shells around her, but we have always taken anything she has said with the highest regard and rave about her creative ideas.

Did you ask her what her reasons were for feeling that way?
Did we give you reason to feel that way, and if so, when, what did we say?  Again, reassure her that it's going to take time but if there is anything we can do to make you feel comfortable, you would welcome any suggestions


QuoteShe mentioned that we sometimes ignore her emails, but the way I see it we make a point to be very responsive to her.  I mentioned that to my odd and she agreed with me that we make sure we respond quickly and positively to her.

Then dig deeper, ask her what she means, explain to her, on all these issues, it's very important you know, so as not to offend her or hurt her feelings?

Quote4.  She feels pressured when I ask when they are available to get together for a birthday/holiday get together.

again, ask her why, that you usually do get together for birthdays, and you want to make sure everyone is available to attend. 

What you've discussed with her, to me, is an advancement, some young people who are insecure like your DIL, will not discuss the issues, b/c she is afraid, so,they get angry and walk away....at least you got her talking...

Ask her for advice on how she would like you to do things....everything she brings up, ask her...that way it shows, your open to suggestions and are trying to listen to her, b/c her feeling are important...I would reassure her more...don't call son and ask him, call her and ask her...besides, men always get things mixed up, make certain your bases are covered by talking to her.

Hope, it sounds like you've made progress, at least she is opening up...always listen intently, and explain to her, that you really didn't understand that she felt like this...and your very sorry she does...now what do you think we should do to fix it? 

Hope, she sounds very insecure and immature and afraid...what is her family like?  Are they introverted?  Is she?
Did she have a hard childhood?

Hugs
Creme
Thanks, Creme.
I'm feeling pretty whipped right now, but knowing I have the support of you and the other good women here is helping me gain strength.  To tell you the truth, I caught my dil off guard when I began our talk about what she was upset with.  She had a hard time thinking clearly about what I needed to apologize for and went as far as to say that my dh was wrong - that she didn't say I needed to apologize.  I don't think my dh was inaccurate - b/c he told me right after talking to her and he said that she didn't hesitate to answer him when she said that there were three things I should apologize for.  And, Creme, imho that was the first opportunity I had to bring up the subject of her being upset with me without making it even more akward.  The last five years I would analyze and torture myself over what she was upset about.  I was actually thankful that she told my dh that I needed to apoloze for three things b/c it opened up an opportunity to talk about it.  I just responded that it is always a challenge to blend families b/c they are all different - not one better than the other - just different.  I also told her that I am still learning myself how to be the parent of adult children.  I told her that I want her to feel comfortable coming to us if there is something wrong and that I hope we are approachable.  (She said that she would definitely come to us if there was a problem and that we were very approachable.)  When I asked her to describe what she was talking about, she said she wasn't prepared b/c she didn't know we were going to talk about it and she couldn't think clearly.   She gave me an example of how I could have asked about Easter.  She said that I could have first said that I realize they are very busy and are juggling a lot of visits, but would like to know how to answer if someone asks at the get together whether or not they would be there.  That's a good suggestion of yours to ask her how she would prefer I handle things.   Despite her saying that her feelings were hurt that I thought it would be nice to get to know her better, I really can't answer your question about her childhood.  I don't know anything about her childhood, except that her parents, grandparents, and some aunts/uncles are alcoholics.  They are very close, Italian, and she is fiercely devoted to them.  We may be perceived as a threat to her.  I don't think she had a hard childhood - she acts like she's use to getting what she wants.  She is VERY friendly and outgoing.  She has had some personality problems with people she works with and it lead to her losing her last job.  She likes to spend money even when they don't have it.  If anything, I think she had a spoiled childhood.
Well, I will reread what you wrote and absorb it some more another day.  Thanks for your input.
Hugs, Hope

Hope

Quote from: barelythere on September 19, 2010, 06:04:29 AM
Dear Hope,
Just my 2 cents but for what it's worth.  When you ask her questions, be sure your son is right there so the conversation can't be interpretted and sent back to him in any other way than exactly how you meant it.
This kind of thing can make YOU insecure even if you weren't before so be prepared for that too.
Thanks, Barelythere.  I agree with you - it's best that my son be there when we talk.  I thought about that before talking to her and I fear that since he wasn't there at her salon she will misquote what I said, but I rarely see the two of them alone.  They haven't come over our house alone in the five years they have been married with the exception of two times that I can think of.  I just took the plunge b/c the opportunity was there and I was dying to know what terrible things she perceived that I was doing so I could stop.  I am not a mean or vengeful person - I never intentionally do anything to hurt someone.  I wish I could say that we see them alone, but we don't.  As a matter of fact, today at the Christening our dil's grandmother was talking about how she bought a baby swing b/c when they bring the baby to her house he looks so scrunched up in his baby seat.  I'm sure she and the other relatives have no idea that my dh and I NEVER get a visit from them.  We would have no reason to buy any baby equipment unless things change.  Thanks for listening to me unload.  It helps.
Hugs, Hope

barelythere

Hope, I guess it would be out of the question to call and ask if you could come by?  Like make it a week away or something??  Or do they live too far? I might have missed that.

Hope

Quote from: cremebrulee on September 19, 2010, 07:07:08 AM
Quote from: barelythere on September 19, 2010, 06:04:29 AM
Dear Hope,
Just my 2 cents but for what it's worth.  When you ask her questions, be sure your son is right there so the conversation can't be interpretted and sent back to him in any other way than exactly how you meant it.
This kind of thing can make YOU insecure even if you weren't before so be prepared for that too.

that is a very good point...
adding also...I noticed Hope you said, your walking on egg shells, fearing what she is going to think...don't....you cannot control the way anyone thinks...no matter how nice you are, and here is the thing, if she'd going to take it negatively, you can't control that...she admitted that your family is a lot different then her family...(I swear when young, we go into marriages thinking that everyone thinks and feels like we do?)  Anway, by walking on egg shells, you are immediately throwing off negative energy, that she is picking up...and thinks you don't like her...realize, why your uncomfortable, then replace it with knowing that no matter what you do or say, if she's going to take it negatively, she will.  By you sending off that negative energy, she's picking it up as maybe a threat, or that might be the reason she's stating, that she doesn't feel as if you treat her like the others in the family, that interaction. 

I realize this takes a lot of work, and more so, time and patience, but Hope, by your post, I think your off to a good start....what do you think?

Creme
Thanks, Creme.  I'll try to just be myself. The reason we all walk on egg shells is b/c she is hypersensitive.  I can see your point - she is probably sensing our apprehension.  The teasing comment my husband made is a good example.  When she told him that she was swaddling her son, my dh just kiddingly said, "Well, as long as your swaddling him and not throttling him.  He does like to stay warm."  My dh is a very considerate man and has a great sense of humor.  He said it in a loving, endearing way.  I mean, she was just beside herself by what my husband said.  She was soooooo upset with him that I still don't think she forgave him, even after he made two trips to their house to apologize.  That's what I mean by walking on egg shells.  I think some distance is a very good idea at this point.  Even though we lose out on seeing our gs.  If they want to see us, that's fine, but I don't think us initiating contact is going to help.
Hugs, Hope

Hope

Quote from: luise.volta on September 19, 2010, 09:20:04 AM
Sounds like some solid advice. I know I was irreverent but I always wonder when someone has a "list"...why it never enters their mind that the other person might have one, too. No one is perfect and there is the unspoken assumption that they are above reproach. That's totally unrealistic. Sending love...
I love this post, Luise.  Successful relationships must have two sides and she hasn't once asked my expectations or what she might have done to hurt me.  No one is perfect, and I know that includes me.
Hugs, Hope

Hope

Quote from: guest1 on September 19, 2010, 09:57:21 AM
Oh dear Hope, how I can relate. Your DIL sounds a lot like mine, at least it sounds like you have some sort of relationship with yours since she does your hair, DIL and I hardly speak to each other nor do we have contact via email. My DIL acted like this from the very beginning, she never wanted to come to family gatherings, said she felt uncomfortable around us because we are  different than her family, DS kept telling us to be patient because she was very shy, after a couple of years of this ridiculous behavior one day I lost it and we had a confrontation then things got even worse. I've tried to make it up to her but I'm tired of having to deal with this, she refuses to meet us halfway.

I know what you mean when you say your GS feels like a distant relative. Our GD is 2 years old and we don't feel that close to her. We have babysat her a few times in the past few months and I hate to say this but I'm trying not to get too close to her because I don't want to suffer any more than I already have, it's gotten easier for us and we don't miss her or DS that much anymore. My friends who are grandmothers tell me that having a GC is like being a parent for the second time but we have yet to experience this. We wish things were different, never thought they would get to this point, the GC are the ones missing out the most but evidently their parents don't see it that way.  I tell myself God has other plans for us and He knows best. I'm a lot calmer now and I can sleep at night, DH and I are trying to go on with our lives, there's so much we want to do and so little time. I wish I had some comforting words to tell you, just know that my heart aches for you, I hope God gives you strength and hope things get better for you soon.

Hugs.
Thanks, Guest1.  As much as it saddens me to think you are going through something similar, it is comforting to know you understand.  I'm happy to know that you are working through it and sleeping better.  You are smart to move on with your life.  Life is too short.  Thanks for your support and comforting words.  My heart aches for you, too.
Hugs, Hope

Hope

Quote from: Miss Understood on September 19, 2010, 10:58:42 AM
Boy, I can't stand list makers when it comes to relationships. I don't mind with chores or things that need reminding of. But who has the right to make a list of someone's pros and cons, what they do right, what they do wrong..what they should and shouldn't do. All it does is lead to disapointment. My family (parents, siblings, etc) are that way....List makers and grudge holders. Nobody can ever accept responsibility for wrong doing, hurting someone else, anything...then the list comes out and it goes way back, things you thought would have been marked off that list way back when. Nothing good ever comes of it and nothing ever gets accomplished. Though...I always step back in hoping that I can have some sort of rational relationship with them. But it always reverts back to the grudge and the list.
The only thing I can tell you about your DIL is she has that right to make that list...but you don't have to accept anything on it. That is not your list and it is o.k. to ask what is bothering her or what you can do to help you and DIL have a better relationship...but when the list comes out...be assured it is an endless list and nothing ever really gets crossed off it.
I like Luise's list. She's a pest!
Thanks, Miss Understood.  I see the similarities.  My dil  holds grudges better than most.  She can hold onto something she determines to be a foul forever.  Sorry you have to live through it, too.  I'm glad to know that you've learned what to expect so that you won't continue to get pulled into the trap.  I realize that I'm not perfect and I'm more than willing to know what I'm doing to upset her so I can learn to be a better person, but I also realize that she will be looking for our faults for years to come.  Maybe some day she will finally accept us for who we are.  I'm grateful for your input and your understanding.
Hugs, Hope

Hope

Quote from: Pen on September 19, 2010, 12:26:26 PM
Hope, I'm glad you're back, but sorry to hear things are uncomfortable with you and DIL.

Oh, the dreaded lists. Objects belong on lists, such as items for a shopping day or chores that must be done. People and their attributes don't belong on lists, IMHO. When one does that it devalues the other, which may be the objective?

I'm so tired of good people being treated poorly.
Pen, it's good to hear from you.  I hope things are going well in your world lately.
Hugs, Hope

Hope

Quote from: Orly on September 19, 2010, 01:51:58 PM
OMG!

That list of hers is just the lamest thing I have ever read.  Why, oh why, didn't she include the freckle you have on your nose making her uncomfortable?  She is looking for any excuse at all, for a reason to not include you.  Take one thing out of the equation....stop using her as your hairdresser....keep your relationship purely a family one...then she can't use the one about her "working for you" making her feel funny.  Really, letting her cut, or style your hair is one of the most  touchy issues involving trust between two women.  Or at least it is to me....if I don't trust you, or feel comfortable with you....you aren't going to be touching my head.  WITH a sharp instrument and chemicals....no way in heck!
Orly,
As usual, you made me lol.  I needed that.  Even though my dil does a nice job on my hair, I have often wished I hadn't started to go to her.  The only reason I did was b/c when she married my ds, I thought it was the right thing to do.  She was cutting a lot of our relatives hair and I wanted to support her.  Now I would be considered an even bigger monster if I bowed out.  Do you think the two hours I'm with her while she does my hair might be a good time to get to know her better?  I just don't know how to stop going to her without it being a really big blowout.  I see your point, but I can't take more strain on our already fragile relationship.  I need your little devil on my shoulder to help me along.
Hugs, Hope

Hope

Quote from: barelythere on September 19, 2010, 07:43:27 PM
Hope, I guess it would be out of the question to call and ask if you could come by?  Like make it a week away or something??  Or do they live too far? I might have missed that.
Barelythere,
I love your idea and it makes sense, but I get the idea that it puts too much stress on my ds/dil's relationship.  They only live 15 minutes from us, but I've been trying to just lay low.  My dil told me not to visit the week they took him home from the hospital and when I did call my ds the following week to see if I could "come over to visit any time soon", he answered in a frustrated voice, "I don't know, Mom".  He made it happen by making up excuses.  For instance, he asked me to help him get their house ready for a "showing" and twice he asked me to drive my dil home when we were at the same gathering (at the time they had a car shortage).  It appeared that he wasn't allowed to just have me over for a visit just to visit.  I don't know.  My dil is looking for things to pick on and I think absence may help the situation.
Your suggestion makes so much sense, but I don't think my dil would appreciate it.  She has also commented that she has a lot of hormone issues, so she is pretty touchy.  I feel sorry for my ds.
Hugs, Hope

Hope

Quote from: luise.volta on September 19, 2010, 06:43:02 PM
Good for you! Remember this...the only people who aren't making mistakes are the ones who aren't doing anything!
Love it (and you)!   ;) ;) ;) ;)

barelythere

Quote from: Hope on September 19, 2010, 08:55:14 PM
Quote from: barelythere on September 19, 2010, 07:43:27 PM
Hope, I guess it would be out of the question to call and ask if you could come by?  Like make it a week away or something??  Or do they live too far? I might have missed that.
Barelythere,
I love your idea and it makes sense, but I get the idea that it puts too much stress on my ds/dil's relationship.  They only live 15 minutes from us, but I've been trying to just lay low.  My dil told me not to visit the week they took him home from the hospital and when I did call my ds the following week to see if I could "come over to visit any time soon", he answered in a frustrated voice, "I don't know, Mom".  He made it happen by making up excuses.  For instance, he asked me to help him get their house ready for a "showing" and twice he asked me to drive my dil home when we were at the same gathering (at the time they had a car shortage).  It appeared that he wasn't allowed to just have me over for a visit just to visit.  I don't know.  My dil is looking for things to pick on and I think absence may help the situation.
Your suggestion makes so much sense, but I don't think my dil would appreciate it.  She has also commented that she has a lot of hormone issues, so she is pretty touchy.  I feel sorry for my ds.
Hugs, Hope

I understand, Hope. Your DIL might be one of those concrete literal people who have zero sense of humor. Your DH's joke might not have been understood by her. In other words, she took him seriously. Poor woman.  I think without a sense of humor, it's hard to live.