Daughter in law is very bitter towards her father

[Kathy]

Oh..thank you so much for this wonderful forum Luise..I have read that you started the ball rolling here..wonderful..

As for the cookie es..hmmm..I think I should make them and keep them for me.   If my son should come over to visit me, he can have some. He loves my chocolate chip cookies..

The young Pastor's wife is just inexperienced and a baby herself..  No more asking advice from others..I will just come here and get my advice...After all, I don't want to be accused of talking behind her back...I am safe here and no one will come after me anymore for ""having a big Mouth"...  which is what I was accused of..  Not quite those words but close enough..I got the drift.. 

Miss Understood..you have a wonderful day and enjoy that pool .  It has been the hottest summer we have ever experienced in the Niagara Peninsula of southern Ontario ..The peaches are just heavenly right now...Our apple trees are starting to show nice big mutzu apples.  Southern Ontario is on the same latitude as California..so  we know hot weather here too..  Just because I live in Canada  doesn't mean it is always cold...Usually here where I live it is fairly mild all year round..   Whatever you do..never never cross into Canada with snow skis on your roof.. in July     or most of the year actually.. promise???ha ha..love you ladies.

[Pen]

I know I did nothing wrong and so..they will pay a dear price for this insulting behaviour..   IE...No Christmas gifts anymore...no birthday gifts anymore.. I don't plan on doing Christmas dinner now for them either..   
I figure in time they will come back and want some money ...I won't give it unless they let me bond with my grandson..that's it.  new rules around here...   

If you can change this a little bit to more of an attitude of "I'm taking care of my well-being" and less of "This is how I'll show them!" you will heal that much faster, trust me. You're not going to spend any more money on them because you care about your health and sanity, not because you want to blackmail them into letting you back in. If they sense that, it most likely will backfire. And most definitely set some ground rules up regarding DGC...but realize DS & DIL may not agree, so be prepared. Again, state the rules as protection for yourself and your family, not as a "gotcha" for them.

Best wishes from one confused and hurt MIL to another Now go and enjoy what sounds like a beautiful area in which to thrive and recover!

[Kathy]

OK..thanks for the advice.. it is easy to get the I'll show them attitude.....

I will be more concerned with my own health...that is my main concern...I have had enough With General anxiety disorder and I sure don't need to go back down into depression again..

Thanks ..hugs.    I live in the Banana belt of Canada..right in the heart of wine country in the Niagara Peninsula..between lake Erie and Lake Ontario...lovely spot indeed.   I am just north of Buffalo New York..Say hello as you pass by sometime on your way to Toronto...OK?   
Actually we are heading down to Kentucky this weekend...Louisville to be exact. to the National Quartet Convention..we go every year. 

[luise.volta]

Good point Pen. Getting well and getting even are very different. One promotes healing and the other keeps the wound form healing. Sending love..

And yes, I did start this. You can read about it in "Open Me First" on the Home Page under "How this Happened." :-)

[Miss Understood]

We aren't enemy's to our mixed up children. We are their greatest fans, biggest supporters, the doormats....getting even isn't even in our nature. I think when we get angry...we all talk a bit vengeful, but I don't think any of us act on it. I sometimes do the same thing too. I even envision myself with my son across my lap giving him a splanking or washing his mouth out with soap...something I probably should have done the first time he disrespected me. All the what ifs, If I only and what could I possibly have done wrong to deserve any of this is just clouding up reality. Nothing...we loved our children...that's all.
Peaceful thoughts go out to all of you tonight

[luise.volta]

And peaceful thoughts to you, Wise Woman. 

[Kathy]

Once again..Miss Understood..you are so correct.  Thank you for giving me food for thought and for reminding me..that I have to keep my emotions in check. Tonight my husband phoned my DIL to see if we could visit our GS for a few minutes..It was just after 7 pm..not really late...She replied in her matter of fact tone  "He is sleeping now".   

My husband just said..OK another time then...bye for now"..and hung up.. 

There we are...if my son had answered the phone I am sure he would have said..."OK come on over"...but he didn't and once again She controls his life and his family.  It is a crying shame that he has been taken over by such a mean spirited person and we have to endure her smug attitude. 

Peace to you all this Labour Day evening.   

[luise.volta]

She is being just exactly like she is. It took me a long time to get that's what people do.(I have other scripts for them.) Sending love...

[Miss Understood]

Kathy. Don't call anymore, as hard as it is. Rejection isn't an easy pill to swallow so don't set yourself up for it. Let them call you and when they ask why you don't call more, then tell them when you do you are always rejected, put the effort on them for a while.
Take a break. You deserve that. Just my opinion, but 7 p.m. Is late on a week night if they are trying to get on schedule...Maybe if you do ask again, since you still have communication, you can ask what a good time for them would be. Keep your chin up

[Barbie]

I would like to say that we've never called DS and DIL to ask if we can come over, we always wait for them to invite us. We've been invited more often lately but have gone 9 mos. without visiting them at their house. They've come to our house several times in between and of course DIL's family can visit them anytime.

[pam1]

Once again..Miss Understood..you are so correct.  Thank you for giving me food for thought and for reminding me..that I have to keep my emotions in check. Tonight my husband phoned my DIL to see if we could visit our GS for a few minutes..It was just after 7 pm..not really late...She replied in her matter of fact tone  "He is sleeping now".   

My husband just said..OK another time then...bye for now"..and hung up.. 

There we are...if my son had answered the phone I am sure he would have said..."OK come on over"...but he didn't and once again She controls his life and his family.  It is a crying shame that he has been taken over by such a mean spirited person and we have to endure her smug attitude. 

Peace to you all this Labour Day evening.   

Perhaps you and your husband can make plans a little more in advance?  I think last minute invites often throw a lot of people off and especially in an already confusing relationship, perhaps the asker and the invitee are "assuming" the worst about each others responses. 

Kathy, my heart goes out to you.  I can't imagine receiving a list of faults, it's just so cold and mechanical. 

As an outside party though, it sounds to me as if it's a childish attempt at communication.   Is there anything on the list you can use to help repair the relationship? 

[Scoop]

<< Once again..Miss Understood..you are so correct.  Thank you for giving me food for thought and for reminding me..that I have to keep my emotions in check. Tonight my husband phoned my DIL to see if we could visit our GS for a few minutes..It was just after 7 pm..not really late...She replied in her matter of fact tone  "He is sleeping now".   

My husband just said..OK another time then...bye for now"..and hung up..

There we are...if my son had answered the phone I am sure he would have said..."OK come on over"...but he didn't and once again She controls his life and his family.  It is a crying shame that he has been taken over by such a mean spirited person and we have to endure her smug attitude. >>

Kathy, what if you took this at face value?  Your GS was sleeping, do you think your DS would have woke him for you to see him?  Because that would have been the wrong thing for him to do.

I think in this case in particular, you've stretched an innocent comment into a hateful incident.  Unfortunately, you're not just hurting yourself, you're hurting your DH and your relationship with DS, DIL and GS.

[Miss Understood]

Kathy, this is going to be long.....but please read it and hear me out. I hope it will help you because reading it myself and hearing me...it helped me. I was not as receptive when I first came here....right Luise. I had the "BUT" syndrome. I have grown mountains.
I know how we want to see that baby...every second we can. Piece of advice...if you don't want to be cut out completely (which is the worst thing ever...trust me) Be more patient! Don't impose. NEVER! Let them invite you. It is fine to call during NON NAP or CLOSE TO BED times...ask how things are, do they need anything and maybe just say, "we'd like to come by when it is convenient for you and the baby's schedule" Leave it at that. You've given them the space, you've been considerate....you show you love them and are there for them. Let them extend the invite, atleast until there is some show of interest. You are very fortunate compared to most of us MIL's that you even have contact, even if strained. Whenever you feel anxious and want to overstep those boundaries....put yourself in one of our situations and that will surely stop you.
MINE: just so you know the history....My DS is my middle child, my only Son...he and I were the closest because he was a child from a divorce before the age of 1. I married my current spouse when he was 5 and worked really hard on initiating and encouraging a good relationship with his estranged father. My DH now really raised him and he was very, very close to my DH...they were buddy's. He always struggled with my ex, but I stood by and helped them work things out. My DS met a girl right out of Highschool, got her pregnant (she has a bit of a dysfuntional past) They wanted to get married, lived with us for 6 months, we were the primary care givers, helpers, the "trust worthy" grandparents. She got jealous because of the closeness and she got insecure with the love he had for me, his sisters, DH, Grandparents....At least this is how it appears. They cut us out of their lives completely. All of them. Stuck me with a silent treatment going on 3 months. Bills, truck loan and worst off I am banned and we are all banned from any contact with GD and DS. You'll ask, "there must have been something I did wrong, we did wrong." I searched for 2 ½ months and thought I had a label...I took the baby for a little bike ride while babysitting....BIG DEAL. Even if that was a problem, it doesn't warrant the axe. I looked for every excuse, anything that I possibly could have done. I graveled, begged for forgiveness, made things, sent things, calls...nothing. I ate crow basically for what? I learned it isn't about me...it's about them. I didn't do anything worthy of this treatment. If it wasn't for the "Bike Ride" which I believe she set me up for that and is using that as an excuse for their distance...it would have been something else. They are young, Very young. They are not happy or in love with each other...it's apparent. I have learned to let go as hard as it is and know that I left the door open, I shut it...but left it unlocked. I set boundaries now (even after I ate crow for so long) "No more cookies", gifts and graveling. I will no longer listen to cursing and yelling...if they ever speak to me again. I will no longer be a prisoner in my life to a dangling carrot (Baby) and tortured into doing what they say or else. It's there loss...I'm a GREAT MOM and SUPER DUPER GRANDMA...I live on the truth now. I am pouring my love into the others in my life that appreciate what I have and what I can give. Yes, I cry....daily...not as much. Yes, I pray, I meditate, I journal....I hope! I know that somewhere in that knucklehead skull of my son that he will remember the love and the togetherness and someday be able to eat his humble pie. My GD will be older...but I don't want them in my life the way they are treating me. I want them in my life, but not the abusive and no game playing, selfish, inconsiderate, rude children they are right now! Someday.....I have faith.
Kathy....Relax....You'll be fine...Trust the women here. Don't get to where I am and where most of the other women are. If I had only seen the warning signs coming...I surely would have done things different. I was blind to it all...for how could my precious baby boy ever oust his wonderful mama for some other girl? Never!!!!!  Well....he did.

[MagicGram]

It has to do with confidences and mixed up communication.   she does not want us to mention her father at all when we are together..I mentioned it once a few weeks ago and received a very nasty email back telling me that it was not appreciated to mention him ...  She has other issues with us..stemming from a misunderstanding about keeping matters confidential..We did not know that her grandfather's illness was to be kept secret until later when we mentioned that we had told a few people to pray for her grandfather...

Why are you talking about her family members to others?  They don't appear to be friends of yours.  This can legitimately be considered gossip.  And nobody likes to be gossiped about--even to your friends at church.  Do you suppose your talking out of turn is the reason they switched churches?  You've embarassed them or spread too much information about them around.  You sound judgmental in your assessment of her, her bitterness towards her father is her business and likely justified, but in any case not your business.  Discussing it and the health of her grandfather with others was definitely out of line in my opinion.  I hope you've apologized for it.  I don't think I've ever discussed my DILs' family members with anyone, I don't see what reason there would be to do so.

I have been accused of wanting too much sympathy from them  due to my  arthritis and depression issues.  I have been accused of many things and I am tired of the constant accusations..as if they are so perfect. 

It's very common for us older folks to discuss our health issues way too often without realizing how tedious it is to listen to.  Mostly people our own age understand, but younger folks often don't and see it as being needy or complaining or as a form of guilt tripping.  It won't hurt to button up the complaints about your health, or to even apologize to your son and DIL and say you realize you've been complaining too much about your health and you are sorry.  It would go a long way to fixing the problem.

I can't believe my son would stoop so low as to write down all the things that I do that causes them grief.  I raised my son to be understanding and mild mannered..he obviously is being brainwashed to some extent against me..and my husband.  the situation is at an impasse..there is no reasoning with with my daughter law..I can't figure her out...Bitterness against her own father has turned her against us as well.

If you are causing them grief, wouldn't you want to know about it so you can stop it?  Surely you don't want to cause anyone grief? 

You say you raised your son to be understanding and mild mannered.  I'm guessing he's being very understanding of his wife's pain regarding her unhappiness with her father and her grandfather's illness.  And by mild-mannered, do you mean: never to criticize you?  Putting his problems with you on paper sounds like a good mild-mannered non-confrontational way to address his concerns.  This is not 'brainwashing', if his wife is unhappy about you spreading talk about her grandfather's health, or mentioning her father when she doesn't want to discuss it, or talking about her behind her back, he's right to address it with you.  He's probably no happier about you doing this than she is. 

I doubt that her feelings towards her father have anything to do with the problems she has with you.  If there's a list of behaviors you do that cause them grief, then those are the things that have caused problems in your relationship with her.  It's kind of a stretch to blame her father. 

I'm sorry you feel apologizing is 'stooping' and begging because apology and behavior change is how to fix the situation.  If you reject apologizing, then you reject any possibility of easing the tension.  Pride may be more important to you; only you know what your priorities are.  But I want to caution you that your idea "I won't give you money unless you give me time with your baby" is a terrible one.  It will confirm all the uneasy suspicions they have about you, particularly if they think you are manipulative.  You will lose your son and his family for sure.  Give or don't give as you see fit, but don't attach strings--because those strings will be the ones you end up hanging by.

[luise.volta]

You make some good points, MG...a Wise Woman, indeed. Sending love...