Rigid people

[Miss Understood]

My grandma knew we all loved her.I was the closest to her. She loved us kids, We were her life. I know my GC were the love of mine. 2 boys and 1 girl with kids. Real close with the GD from DD, DS #1, is a step son....has a DIL from you know where, they are going thru a divorce after 11 years od alienation, DS #2 has the nightmare manipulator wife who is sweet on the outside, Evil on the inside. Reality is scary. Trying to stay positive now that the shock has passed. Still sad though.

[barelythere]

My grandma knew we all loved her.I was the closest to her. She loved us kids, We were her life. I know my GC were the love of mine. 2 boys and 1 girl with kids. Real close with the GD from DD, DS #1, is a step son....has a DIL from you know where, they are going thru a divorce after 11 years od alienation, DS #2 has the nightmare manipulator wife who is sweet on the outside, Evil on the inside. Reality is scary. Trying to stay positive now that the shock has passed. Still sad though.

I think your son is not having a happy life.  I think he's probably very unhappy and is just about to explode from stress.  That's just my take on it. Anything could have set him off that day.  You were handy.

[luise.volta]

Oh, I love that! Angel Eyes!  (That's how I look right now, with my left eye always closed...like a wink.)

I was talking about our wanting "things" (life, people, circumstances) to be different. They are how they are, people act the way they do, and we don't get to vote,...we have no choice. I have spent much of my earlier life anguishing over not wanting things to be the way they were. Whether because I saw other solutions, thought I could fix them or couldn't adjust. It helped me a lot to get that they are how they are. Does that make sense?

[barelythere]

Oh, I love that! Angel Eyes!  (That's how I look right now, with my left eye always closed...like a wink.)

I was talking about our wanting "things" (life, people, circumstances) to be different. They are how they are, people act the way they do, and we don't get to vote,...we have no choice. I have spent much of my earlier life anguishing over not wanting things to be the way they were. Whether because I saw other solutions, thought I could fix them or couldn't adjust. It helped me a lot to get that they are how they are. Does that make sense?

Yes it does make sense and I thank you for explaining it.  I wish they would change and be different, some of them.  They need to.

[Scoop]

Miss Understood said:
Don't you just hate that you have to play games and not be real with yourself and to them. I have a daughter with a child. I do not have to pretend anything....she let's me be me with her and thanks me often for enriching her daughter. The other day I picked her up for a 4 day visit with us. I said to my daughter that her hair and bangs were getting so long. My daughter says, "well, cut them." I said, "NNNNOOOOO. NOT MY JOB, I dare not get in trouble" Her reply, "Mom, don't be silly. she's your GD and I trust you. If I don't like the haircut, it will grow back."
I kissed her and thanked her. Even the Garbage my DS and DIL is making me gunshy and walk on egg shells all around my life. I HATE THAT! I WANT TO BE ME!!!!!

I have to say that I really dislike this expression.  Do you really NOT modify your behaviour depending on where you are and who you're with?  Do you speak the same way ("being you") when you're with a Priest/Rabbi/Boss (whatever) as with your best friend?  Do you act the same way when you're in church, at the opera, in your living room?  I really doubt it.  Well, that's how it is with your DIL.  Of course you speak / act differently with your DD than with your DIL.  Your DD *knows* you and trusts you and has for a LONG time.  Obviously, your DIL doesn't know you the same way and doesn't trust you, based on the difficulties in your relationship.

I think in this case you really have to change your expectations, because there's no way your DIL can live up to the relationship you have with your DD.

Also, you don't know what's going on between your DS and DIL.  You just don't, and it's harmful to your relationship with DIL for you to assume that she said no, just 'because'.  It could be a habitual thing for your DS to double-book the family, and agree to social commitments without consulting her, which just makes her angry.  It could be that the children have something really important already booked for that weekend.  What I'm saying is that you don't KNOW for sure.  And if you assume the worst of your DIL, then it's not HER hurting you, it's YOU hurting yourself.

I understand that you have doubts.  Fine.  Did you ask your DS what plans the kids had?  Maybe it's a sports tournament and you can go and cheer them on for a game.  Maybe it's a recital and you could go watch.  Maybe it's one of the kids best friends birthday party, and you could all go out for supper afterwards in DS's town.  Since it's back-to-school time, maybe you could go visit, take them shopping for an outfit and then have them home in time to start their normal routines and bedtimes for back-to-school.

[cremebrulee]

Oh, I love that! Angel Eyes!  (That's how I look right now, with my left eye always closed...like a wink.)

I was talking about our wanting "things" (life, people, circumstances) to be different. They are how they are, people act the way they do, and we don't get to vote,...we have no choice. I have spent much of my earlier life anguishing over not wanting things to be the way they were. Whether because I saw other solutions, thought I could fix them or couldn't adjust. It helped me a lot to get that they are how they are. Does that make sense?

Yes it does make sense and I thank you for explaining it.  I wish they would change and be different, some of them.  They need to.

In time they do change....maybe not all, but a lot of them do....we did....remember when you were young and newly married?  I can't speak for you, but I was a brat...wanted everything my way....wanted to start my own household with my own rules....didn't want my mother in law hanging around all the time, or telling me what I should or should not do....she did that without realizing, she was treating me like a child and I hated that, and hated the fact that she thought, it was OK to interfer with our lives, and suggest we come there or they come here, or would stop by without calling first....

My suggestion would be this....just to play it safe, never ever ask the kids to do something before you ask they're mother....and when you call, or they call, make it a point to ask for DIL and tell her, hey, your coming into the area, would you guys be able to stop by for dinner or a short visit....I wanted to ask you before telling the kids, in case it doesn't meet with your schedule.

Men will say, yes, we'll come, without checking with wife first, to see if the wife made plans but didn't yet vocalize it to her husband.  This used to happen a lot to me....I would forget to mention to my husband that I wanted to do this or that on the weekend...we both worked all week....then his mother would call, and he'd say, sure, that's good, then get off the phone and say, we're going here or there on Sunday. 

Well, I'd be ticked b/c in my mind, I had that Sunday planned, so, he'd have to call her back and say no, we can't come, wife made plans and I didn't know it....but men forget to communicate things to they're wives....it might not be you as much as you think it is....

I would try wooing her a little...ask her, "would you like to come and visit or come for dinner?"  I'm sure it really upsets her when you say something to the kids without asking her first....and it might even seem to her, like you purposely do that to manipulate the situation, b/c you know she might not be able to say no to the kids.  I'm not suggesting you are, what I'm saying is, that is how she is seeing it...and thinks your doing, so change it.....ask her first....don't ask son....they are a team, and both must mutually agree, and by asking him, your putting him in the middle.  It makes things worse all the way around....I know you had no intention of doing so, but next time, catch yourself...and then call her, specifically to ask her....if she says no, don't take it personal, perhaps they do have other plans...you do have power over this...you have the power to make it better....by remembering, she is his wife, they are a team....and the team has to work together.  You know by now what she is like and you know, that asking him isn't a good idea...so reverse the tactics....like I said, the first few times she may say no, but your going to surprise the heck out of her and it will eventually make her feel good.  Let me tell you, when things get to this point between to ladies, we don't think logically, b/c we have our emotions and heart involved...what happens is, every time something like this happens, we then take it as a rejection, when it might not be that at all...so now this builds on the past....constantly adding kindling to the fire....and the fire builds and builds...and we perceive things not as they really are...b/c we're hurt, and we know there is friction between her and I....so, we tend to blow things way out of proportion. 


Try it, it might work....doesn't hurt to try next time....see if it fits....might make you feel good to...in the meantime, have a great time with your hubby....

Hugs
Creme

[barelythere]

Oh, I love that! Angel Eyes!  (That's how I look right now, with my left eye always closed...like a wink.)

I was talking about our wanting "things" (life, people, circumstances) to be different. They are how they are, people act the way they do, and we don't get to vote,...we have no choice. I have spent much of my earlier life anguishing over not wanting things to be the way they were. Whether because I saw other solutions, thought I could fix them or couldn't adjust. It helped me a lot to get that they are how they are. Does that make sense?

Yes it does make sense and I thank you for explaining it.  I wish they would change and be different, some of them.  They need to.

In time they do change....maybe not all, but a lot of them do....we did....remember when you were young and newly married?  I can't speak for you, but I was a brat...wanted everything my way....wanted to start my own household with my own rules....didn't want my mother in law hanging around all the time, or telling me what I should or should not do....she did that without realizing, she was treating me like a child and I hated that, and hated the fact that she thought, it was OK to interfer with our lives, and suggest we come there or they come here, or would stop by without calling first....

My suggestion would be this....just to play it safe, never ever ask the kids to do something before you ask they're mother....and when you call, or they call, make it a point to ask for DIL and tell her, hey, your coming into the area, would you guys be able to stop by for dinner or a short visit....I wanted to ask you before telling the kids, in case it doesn't meet with your schedule.

Men will say, yes, we'll come, without checking with wife first, to see if the wife made plans but didn't yet vocalize it to her husband.  This used to happen a lot to me....I would forget to mention to my husband that I wanted to do this or that on the weekend...we both worked all week....then his mother would call, and he'd say, sure, that's good, then get off the phone and say, we're going here or there on Sunday. 

Well, I'd be ticked b/c in my mind, I had that Sunday planned, so, he'd have to call her back and say no, we can't come, wife made plans and I didn't know it....but men forget to communicate things to they're wives....it might not be you as much as you think it is....

I would try wooing her a little...ask her, "would you like to come and visit or come for dinner?"  I'm sure it really upsets her when you say something to the kids without asking her first....and it might even seem to her, like you purposely do that to manipulate the situation, b/c you know she might not be able to say no to the kids.  I'm not suggesting you are, what I'm saying is, that is how she is seeing it...and thinks your doing, so change it.....ask her first....don't ask son....they are a team, and both must mutually agree, and by asking him, your putting him in the middle.  It makes things worse all the way around....I know you had no intention of doing so, but next time, catch yourself...and then call her, specifically to ask her....if she says no, don't take it personal, perhaps they do have other plans...you do have power over this...you have the power to make it better....by remembering, she is his wife, they are a team....and the team has to work together.  You know by now what she is like and you know, that asking him isn't a good idea...so reverse the tactics....like I said, the first few times she may say no, but your going to surprise the heck out of her and it will eventually make her feel good.  Let me tell you, when things get to this point between to ladies, we don't think logically, b/c we have our emotions and heart involved...what happens is, every time something like this happens, we then take it as a rejection, when it might not be that at all...so now this builds on the past....constantly adding kindling to the fire....and the fire builds and builds...and we perceive things not as they really are...b/c we're hurt, and we know there is friction between her and I....so, we tend to blow things way out of proportion. 


Try it, it might work....doesn't hurt to try next time....see if it fits....might make you feel good to...in the meantime, have a great time with your hubby....

Hugs
Creme

I wasn't thinking when I asked the little GD if they all could go for ice cream when we go there. It seemed and was-- so innocent to me. I'm so tired of this eggshell walking. It's not worth it to me. This wife of his is a controlling person who says no for no reason. You just don't know her. Any fun of any kind is glared at by her.  One of the kids was climbing our son's back when it was sunburned badly and because our son flinched, his wife said aloud, "you're being rude!! Stop it!" This was in front of the kids. Again, I guess this is from her Mother who thinks God speaks to her exclusively. I'm supposed to be fine about that, though. This is not redeemable to me.

[Pooh]

Ok, I have to hold up for barely on this one.  I would never ask my GD first when it came to something big, like an overnight visity, a trip or an all day thing.  Because that should be discussed with the Mother and Father first to make sure they were Ok with it.  But ice cream?  And asking if you can take all of them - Mom and Dad too, sometime while you are there?  That should not be an issue.  If the DIL has a problem with that...then the DIL is just being childish and has no legitimate complaint.

My Mother would look at my boys all the time and say, well Memaw will just have to come snatch you and take you to Chuckie Cheese one day.  Or, hey...sometime next couple of weeks boys, I will come get you and take you to see that new movie.   I never felt like my Mother was being rude and not asking me first.  I knew when it came time, she would call me and say, "Hey, what day would be good?"  If a Grandparent can't generalize with their GC, then that is a problem with the DIL/DH or both.

And I'm sorry, but any DIL/SIL/DD/DH has an issue with a grandparent wanting to spend time with their grandchildren (when the grandparent is being reasonable) has major selfish issues.

[barelythere]

Ok, I have to hold up for barely on this one.  I would never ask my GD first when it came to something big, like an overnight visity, a trip or an all day thing.  Because that should be discussed with the Mother and Father first to make sure they were Ok with it.  But ice cream?  And asking if you can take all of them - Mom and Dad too, sometime while you are there?  That should not be an issue.  If the DIL has a problem with that...then the DIL is just being childish and has no legitimate complaint.

My Mother would look at my boys all the time and say, well Memaw will just have to come snatch you and take you to Chuckie Cheese one day.  Or, hey...sometime next couple of weeks boys, I will come get you and take you to see that new movie.   I never felt like my Mother was being rude and not asking me first.  I knew when it came time, she would call me and say, "Hey, what day would be good?"  If a Grandparent can't generalize with their GC, then that is a problem with the DIL/DH or both.

And I'm sorry, but any DIL/SIL/DD/DH has an issue with a grandparent wanting to spend time with their grandchildren (when the grandparent is being reasonable) has major selfish issues.

Thank you, Pooh so much. It means a lot to me. The reason your Mother could do all that was that that was your Mother. When you're the MIL, anything is an insult. 

[cremebrulee]

Ok, I have to hold up for barely on this one.  I would never ask my GD first when it came to something big, like an overnight visity, a trip or an all day thing.  Because that should be discussed with the Mother and Father first to make sure they were Ok with it.  But ice cream?  And asking if you can take all of them - Mom and Dad too, sometime while you are there?  That should not be an issue.  If the DIL has a problem with that...then the DIL is just being childish and has no legitimate complaint.

My Mother would look at my boys all the time and say, well Memaw will just have to come snatch you and take you to Chuckie Cheese one day.  Or, hey...sometime next couple of weeks boys, I will come get you and take you to see that new movie.   I never felt like my Mother was being rude and not asking me first.  I knew when it came time, she would call me and say, "Hey, what day would be good?"  If a Grandparent can't generalize with their GC, then that is a problem with the DIL/DH or both.

And I'm sorry, but any DIL/SIL/DD/DH has an issue with a grandparent wanting to spend time with their grandchildren (when the grandparent is being reasonable) has major selfish issues.

whoa, this isn't about taking sides with Barelythere against her DIL....I agree, totally with you and she....her DIL is a real problem...what I'm doing is making suggestions to her of how she might win....

I agree, totally with both of you...but nothing will change, unless barelythere makes changes....

yes, her DIL is a really messed up...however, barelythere knows this....so you have two choices....
1.  Do you keep on fighting her and making things worse or
2.  You realize she has real problems, so, you ask her, her permission first....which is a very good way to gain her trust....maybe, maybe not, maybe it won't work, but it's got to be worth a try, right? 

I would try it....a whole lot of positive may come from it, and she's surely got nothing to loose.
someone's got to take initiative, and it isn't going to be her dysfunctional DIL....

[luise.volta]

Amen, Creme!

[Pooh]

I know Creme that you were not taking the DILs side and were offering good suggestions on how to deal with her, but I get so tired of having to make accommodations for selfish people.  You all know my situation with GD and I have not seen her since last December.  So I have to abide by her Mother's wishes and be accommodating.  I have a DIL from hades and in order to have DH in my life, I have to abide by DILs wishes and be accommodating.  I have a SD who is being an absolute spoiled brat and her Mother is contributing to it, so we have to abide by their wishes and be accommodating.

It is so dang tiring.

[cremebrulee]

I know Creme that you were not taking the DILs side and were offering good suggestions on how to deal with her, but I get so tired of having to make accommodations for selfish people.  You all know my situation with GD and I have not seen her since last December.  So I have to abide by her Mother's wishes and be accommodating.  I have a DIL from hades and in order to have DH in my life, I have to abide by DILs wishes and be accommodating.  I have a SD who is being an absolute spoiled brat and her Mother is contributing to it, so we have to abide by their wishes and be accommodating.

It is so dang tiring.

yes, it goes against our grains to be someone we are not....it's difficult, like walking on egg shells all the time....and not easy to do, however, Pooh, you should be commended for being able to do so, cuz, it ain't in any way shape or form easy...

I was afraid, you both took my post the wrong way, and feared barelythere might have taken my post like I was saying she was wrong....and it was like, whoa, whoa, whoa....that's not what I meant....

She is right and very valid for her feelings...however, if she wants change, she's going to have to knuckle down and try a different approach...or have the war going on forever....and she is the one getting beaten and battered, not her DIL....

big hugs
Creme

[cremebrulee]

barelythere,
I know you weren't thinking when you asked your GC to go for ice cream, it was a perfectly normal suggestion...which we have all done....however, your not dealing with a normal DIL...therefore, you've got to know, your not wrong....you didn't do anything wrong....but from now on, if you can, try and coddle her a bit....ask for her, talk to her a little, and then say something like, "listen, FIL and I are going to be at such and such a place, and I thought it would be nice if we all got together....I was wondering if you could come over for an hour or so, and we could all go for ice cream...or if you have longer, that would be nice to, but if you don't, we'll understand....?"  I bet she'd be so shocked, her socks would blow off her feet....then do it again, until it becomes part of who you are, always keep in mind, talk to DIL....
I do know a lot of DIL's think we're asking our sons, b/c we are trying to manipulate a visit out of him...and some of them are hurt by that...as I said, they're young, and very immature....but hopefully they will grow....with time....

barelythere, pooh, come errr....group hug....

hugs
Creme

[pam1]

Oh wow, this is something I can soooo relate to -- but from the other side lol.  You know, I've never been called rigid in my life, until dealing with MIL.  Work performance reviews, my parents and my extended family, teachers growing have always complimented me on easy goingness and an ability to think on my feet.  I was so shocked to discover my MIL considered me to be rigid lol.

The thing is, *everyone* has ways of organizing their life and for the most part, in laws aren't really privy to the intimate details.  I would never think to go explain to MIL, in explicit detail much less, why I chose to organize my life in a certain way.  It seems to be counterfeit to the reality that I am an adult after all.  My family operated a different way growing up,  kids weren't asked or even made aware of plans.  It just wasn't done, my grandparents always checked with the parents first.  Even when we visited and my parents were there, they'd ask one of the parents first before offering anything to us kids.  It was a type of respect that was handed down to all the parents and it's something I believe works very well in families. 

DH and I do run into this same issue with MIL, quite a bit.  And to be honest, I think DH plays a major role in it as well.  I'm a fairly organized person, I know my schedule and I keep better track of DH's.  This is another reason why the both of us fit together well, something I have a strength in, he has a weakness.  And really, I think in general this is true of men and women, of course there are exceptions    So when MIL does ask DH, often times the *both* of them are working off totally inaccurate information. 

DH doesn't consult his calendar and if he says yes when we are all booked, he has to go back and say no.  I find upsetting plans needs to be done only when there is a really good reason, MIL wanting to go get ice cream won't be good enough.  I have days and times booked for really good reasons.  However, it isn't a slight, it isn't a negative, it's simply the consequence of not consulting his calendar.  At least that's how I look at it.  MIL, on the other hand, has displayed time and time again that she doesn't understand why she's being told no.  From my point of view, she isn't really asking.  She's not expecting a no at any point so anything but a yes throws her off and there must be a secret underlying negative reason why she was told no.  And yes, there is the constant attempts to find out, circle around, demand answers.  In all honesty, this dynamic is exhausting.  I wish DH and MIL would figure out a way to let things be, some things just happen in life and you can't always get what you want.  I'm tired of being both their excuses and being the one deemed "rigid" because I have my own life and schedule.

IOW, I do feel like MIL is "rigid" in her way of being that she won't recognize that others can and will do something a different way and it's not a slam against her.  I feel that she is ultra sensitive and these are the types of issues that make relationships hard.  I don't feel the need to describe in detail to her why I'm busy, why DH had to say no, why he said yes in the first place.  It all is what it is and frankly, it's just life.  It happens in my family too but the difference is we all know it happens and no one is looking for a reason to be offended.  It just is.