Is it ONLY sons???

[Keys Girl]

I think the trend with conflict between MIL and DILs/Sons is prevalent for two major reasons.

1. More of those sons were brought up by single parents, often by a strong woman and an absentee/negligent father.  They are used to women having the power role and I think there is also hostility towards both parents from the son's childhood that is expressed "via" the DIL.  "It's not me, it' her, and poor me, I'm caught in the middle" seems to be their refrain. 

2. Today's DIL is more likely to be indulged by boomer parents who thought she was their "Princess" and wouldn't dare do anything to hurt her feelings.

It's a recipe for disaster on the part of the MIL and the only good news is that these marriages have a 50-50 chance of survival, so it can be a waiting game, that starts after the wedding.  I've come across a few couples where the wife is a nasty piece of work, the husband is a passive nice guy and people don't want to spend time with the couple because of "her".

It there are children born, well, then of course the DIL moves from the "Princess" role to "Queen" because she will treat her children they same way she was brought up.  I've found over the years that these people know who they can "prey" on, they know who will say "NO" at the drop of a hat, and they know whose "buttons" they can push to give them what they want.  They are very canny, and sometimes lazy, but they often get what they want with the "broken record" technique. 

Things have changed, when I was married almost 40 years ago the MILs had the power to approve/disapprove of the DIL's cooking/cleaning skills and woe to her son if she didn't approve....just watch Everyone Loves Raymond.....the battle lines between Marie Barone and Debra are very clear, and funny when it's in someone else's house.

[barelythere]

I think the trend with conflict between MIL and DILs/Sons is prevalent for two major reasons.

1. More of those sons were brought up by single parents, often by a strong woman and an absentee/negligent father.  They are used to women having the power role and I think there is also hostility towards both parents from the son's childhood that is expressed "via" the DIL.  "It's not me, it' her, and poor me, I'm caught in the middle" seems to be their refrain. 

2. Today's DIL is more likely to be indulged by boomer parents who thought she was their "Princess" and wouldn't dare do anything to hurt her feelings.

It's a recipe for disaster on the part of the MIL and the only good news is that these marriages have a 50-50 chance of survival, so it can be a waiting game, that starts after the wedding.  I've come across a few couples where the wife is a nasty piece of work, the husband is a passive nice guy and people don't want to spend time with the couple because of "her".

It there are children born, well, then of course the DIL moves from the "Princess" role to "Queen" because she will treat her children they same way she was brought up.  I've found over the years that these people know who they can "prey" on, they know who will say "NO" at the drop of a hat, and they know whose "buttons" they can push to give them what they want.  They are very canny, and sometimes lazy, but they often get what they want with the "broken record" technique. 

Things have changed, when I was married almost 40 years ago the MILs had the power to approve/disapprove of the DIL's cooking/cleaning skills and woe to her son if she didn't approve....just watch Everyone Loves Raymond.....the battle lines between Marie Barone and Debra are very clear, and funny when it's in someone else's house.

OMG....where have you been?  My hero and you leave?   

[barelythere]

I think the trend with conflict between MIL and DILs/Sons is prevalent for two major reasons.

1. More of those sons were brought up by single parents, often by a strong woman and an absentee/negligent father.  They are used to women having the power role and I think there is also hostility towards both parents from the son's childhood that is expressed "via" the DIL.  "It's not me, it' her, and poor me, I'm caught in the middle" seems to be their refrain. 

2. Today's DIL is more likely to be indulged by boomer parents who thought she was their "Princess" and wouldn't dare do anything to hurt her feelings.

It's a recipe for disaster on the part of the MIL and the only good news is that these marriages have a 50-50 chance of survival, so it can be a waiting game, that starts after the wedding.  I've come across a few couples where the wife is a nasty piece of work, the husband is a passive nice guy and people don't want to spend time with the couple because of "her".

It there are children born, well, then of course the DIL moves from the "Princess" role to "Queen" because she will treat her children they same way she was brought up.  I've found over the years that these people know who they can "prey" on, they know who will say "NO" at the drop of a hat, and they know whose "buttons" they can push to give them what they want.  They are very canny, and sometimes lazy, but they often get what they want with the "broken record" technique. 

Things have changed, when I was married almost 40 years ago the MILs had the power to approve/disapprove of the DIL's cooking/cleaning skills and woe to her son if she didn't approve....just watch Everyone Loves Raymond.....the battle lines between Marie Barone and Debra are very clear, and funny when it's in someone else's house.

Our home was a home where Dad was fully engaged and loved, attending and teaching all the sports, teaching them to be gentle men yet strong.  The Princess and the Pea that we got for a DIL was treated like you were talking about, never had one moments problem.  Everything was handed to her on a silver platter.  I have never seen her even one time ever do anything for anyone else. If something will be to her advantage, she will turn on the charm, if not, she withdraws her attention all together.  I will say this, when she turns on the charm, people grovel at her feet.  It is unbearable when she withdraws it.  The slightest thing will turn her into this. 

[miss_priss]

Things have changed, when I was married almost 40 years ago the MILs had the power to approve/disapprove of the DIL's cooking/cleaning skills and woe to her son if she didn't approve....just watch Everyone Loves Raymond.....the battle lines between Marie Barone and Debra are very clear, and funny when it's in someone else's house.

Awesome example Keys (and I love your profile picture by the way...I always thought "Keys" was in reference to the Florida Keys.....not actual keys.)  =P  Good stuff.

"Everybody loves Raymond" is also a good example of the "Good DIL/Bad MIL" scene some of us face.  I think we'd all agree that Debra's a good, reasonable person.  She's not manipulative or unkind.  But Marie is an "old crone" who constantly complains of her and points out her flaws....not to mention how she coddles her sons (or tries to, much to their chagrin) and her DILs are simply never good enough or doing it right.  She drives Debra MAD!  Although its a fantastically funny show, what a dreadful idea to have Marie as a MIL!  "Someone, please hand me a bullet...oh no dear, I'll just need one."   

Great example!!! 

[Keys Girl]

OMG....where have you been?  My hero and you leave?   

I didn't leave, Barelythere, I was getting on with my life.  I might not be here every day or even every week, but I won't be leaving as in "permanently gone".

Yes, these Princess DILs certainly know how to wrap people around their fingers and turn into "she-devils" if they don't get their way.  It's just an adult version of a tantrum, I find myself staring at little kids who are screaming in the grocery store, thinking that is the childish version of their "acting out".  I only hope that some day they will have DILs of their own, by then they should be even more spoiled and bratty and will make our DILs wish for our patient and courteous behaviour with them.  I hope to sitting on a cloud in Heaven by then and enjoying the company of my grandmother and other favourite relatives who had passed on.

PS. My grandmother was about 5' and 250-300 pounds.  They called her "Little Eva" she was feared by absolutely everyone.....some people called her "The General".  She wouldn't have put up with any nonsense from one of these Princesses, would have likely tossed her out of the house to land on her keyster before a family dinner if she was whining.  Oh, I wish she were still here, she'd make mincemeat out of my son's Princess.

[catchingup]

My son-in-law is the most wonderful man. My daughter is so lucky to have him. He pays for her school, hobbies and buys her nice gifts, my daughter can go out and spend with her friends, he helps her out in house chores and fulfills her every wish.

My daughter-in-law on the other hand is too lazy and demanding. My son has to do all the work around the house, pay for her hobbies and drive her around. Shquote]e goes out to party with her friends, while my son stays at home and he constantly needs to do things for her.[/

WHOA FAITH!  LOL!  Do you realize that your Son and your SIL do the EXACT same things?  I hate to point out the obvious but.....
     1.  Pays for hobbies and nice things
     2.  Helps around the house (in whatever capacity)
     3.  Lets her go out with friends

It sounds like your SON does all the things your perfect SIL does, and your DD and DIL get similar treatment from their marriages...but you think of them differently?  Your daughter is a lucky girl to have this guy who gives her everything she wants.  Your DIL gets the exact same things, but she's bad?  Interesting.

It sounds to me like your son gives your DIL everything your SIL gives to your DD, but you wrote about one very positively and one very negatively.  Very interesting!   

Here's a thought:  Does your DIL's mother think her SIL "is the most wonderful man?"  She should!  How ironic would that be!!

Excellent observation!!!! For some reason or other women want to see their daughters safely married
Perhaps it is an inbuilt mechanism to protect her from men who may take advantage of her.

So it gets back to the post "Leave and cleave" instruction given to the man because women cant let their sons go as easy to another woman like herself.

[barelythere]

OMG....where have you been?  My hero and you leave?   

I didn't leave, Barelythere, I was getting on with my life.  I might not be here every day or even every week, but I won't be leaving as in "permanently gone".

Yes, these Princess DILs certainly know how to wrap people around their fingers and turn into "she-devils" if they don't get their way.  It's just an adult version of a tantrum, I find myself staring at little kids who are screaming in the grocery store, thinking that is the childish version of their "acting out".  I only hope that some day they will have DILs of their own, by then they should be even more spoiled and bratty and will make our DILs wish for our patient and courteous behaviour with them.  I hope to sitting on a cloud in Heaven by then and enjoying the company of my grandmother and other favourite relatives who had passed on.

PS. My grandmother was about 5' and 250-300 pounds.  They called her "Little Eva" she was feared by absolutely everyone.....some people called her "The General".  She wouldn't have put up with any nonsense from one of these Princesses, would have likely tossed her out of the house to land on her keyster before a family dinner if she was whining.  Oh, I wish she were still here, she'd make mincemeat out of my son's Princess.

Yes, I know what you mean about outspoken Grandmothers.  God love some of them!  One of mine loved gardening so she went around town saying she was the best Hoe-er in the town.  She had no idea what she was saying, I don't think. 

[stilltrying2010]

I find this topic very interesting.  I thought some of the disapproval/distancing comes fromthe fact that MILs traditions are not the sole traditions to be passed on.  The dil in the family will incorporate HER family traditions where as a Daughter passes her moms lessons onto her children.

I think the trend with conflict between MIL and DILs/Sons is prevalent for two major reasons.

1. More of those sons were brought up by single parents, often by a strong woman and an absentee/negligent father.  They are used to women having the power role and I think there is also hostility towards both parents from the son's childhood that is expressed "via" the DIL.  "It's not me, it' her, and poor me, I'm caught in the middle" seems to be their refrain. 

2. Today's DIL is more likely to be indulged by boomer parents who thought she was their "Princess" and wouldn't dare do anything to hurt her feelings.

It's a recipe for disaster on the part of the MIL and the only good news is that these marriages have a 50-50 chance of survival, so it can be a waiting game, that starts after the wedding.  I've come across a few couples where the wife is a nasty piece of work, the husband is a passive nice guy and people don't want to spend time with the couple because of "her".

This interested me because this is how I view my SIL and I'm certain how they view me.... and yes my husband IS the passive nice guy becuase he learned his "place" his needs came after everyone elses in his FOO(still do). Now I am perceived as the nasty piece of work because he no longer lays down for them (although I definitely wasn't raised and do not raise our daughter princess fashion.z0  Much to think about 

[luise.volta]

Reflection: I have been thinking about the Princess stuff and relating it to my own long, long life. Princesses were few and far between during the depression. The few who were "spoiled" were ridiculed because it was such a rarity. However, in my FOO birthdays were the exception. No money for parties, of course, but the birthday-child was Queen for a Day! We got to dictate the menu for supper and the kind of cake! Powerful stuff! There were a few little presents and lot of fun and laughter. And at 83...I still can't wait for my birthday and I still feel like it is a National Holiday! 

[catchingup]

Luise you are a whole lot less than 83 in your attitude to life.
My word just being able to run a website like this shows how much you still have to give.

My left number changes this month on 22nd --Like this 60 but I would rather be 60 than O9 mths. Know what I mean?

[elsieshaye]

Haha, Creme, I've taken to avoiding my smoking friends outside the office building because it makes me crave.  Same thing with designating my home as a no smoking zone.  It's not because I object to it, but because it's torture to smell it around me and not be able to have one.

[kathleen]

This is a little off the ONLY sons topic but in reply to two posts here:  Luise, I loved your post about the "good old days."  A few years back I got a letter from a friend I hadn't heard from since teen years.  I was just re-reading it the other day when you posted.  I was remembering the very simple times we had.  A big event of the summer was the church ice cream social.   We all dressed in our best and sat at tables under lovely trees, and ate ice cream.  It was a big treat.  Wedding receptions were held at home or in the church basement.  And they were lovely, with home cooked food, although usually the cake was from a bakery.  Confirmations and other marking events always had home receptions. 

I noted your hilarious comment about the nude weddings.  My goodness, Luise, please tell us more!  I think this is a great idea, because it would eliminate so much of the gawdiness and expense of today's weddings.  True, my home in New England is cold in the winter, but brides that wanted white would be right in style, and during a blizzard they would have a nature-made garment to wear!  Just some boots and a fur hat would complete the outfit!

Creme, I am so glad you are quitting smoking.  I quit thirty years ago and have never looked back.  I think a lot of success in this is based on what works for you and figuring that out.  For me, I couldn't do one day at a time, I had to tell myself that was it and I would never smoke again and I never did.  I can't be thinking "just for today," tho I know that works for many people.  I also had a brand new baby at that time and was motivated to stop so he wouldn't grow up breathing smoke.

There is almost no better thing you can do for your health.  One does run the risk of starting to preach to others after one quits.  I tried to get a friend to stop and she had all the reasons why not, "Life is too stressful, my mother just died, etc."  Now she has Stage 4 lung cancer and is in the battle of her life.  I am so glad to read you are quitting.  It's really worth it, and congratulations to you on having the courage and the determination to do a very, very difficult thing.  Hang in there!  It gets easier and easier as time goes on, soon you won't miss it.

Kathleen

[luise.volta]

When I was a kid and ran with an older crowd...peer pressure brought me to smoking at age 13. The only health caution was that "smoking stunts your growth," which didn't daunt most girls. We all wanted to be cute and little.

At age 39, I remarried and my guy said my smoking was the one thing he didn't like about me. (He was a former smoker and preached.) He said that he would start up again, get hooked and quit with me, if I would agree and I did. (Is that love or what?) On my 40th birthday, eight months later, I said 'OK! Now!" He had a terrible time and so did I but we made it together and he probably saved my life.

When I smell cigarette, it makes me sick and I have "moderately severe COPD" as a reminder that we were designed to breath air, not smoke.  (Firemen wear masks!)

[pam1]

That has got to be one of the cutest things I've ever heard.  Seriously

[luise.volta]