Power Struggles with DILs

[stilltryen]

Creme, read your post.  Not the issue here.  My son & DIL live about 30 minutes away.  We have never gone over unexpectedly.  We only go when we're invited, or in my husband's case, our son will ask him to stop by and help with stuff at the house.  So he does.  (We have a pickup, they don't and need help with yard waste, etc.)  We do not tell either how to manage their finances, how to run the household, how to clean, where to shop, what to cook, etc.  That being said, when I do make a comment, such as, "You should read the latest 'John Doe' novel, it's really good," my DIL whines to my son that I'm being bossy telling her what to do.  I'm not.  I don't give a rat's behind if she reads it or not, it was simply a random comment.  Thus, I have to watch what I say to the point that it's hard to have a conversation.  I can't think of anything that she really has to complain about.  They're invited to our home for all the holidays, we remember their birthdays, altho DIL never bothered to so much as call either me or hubby on ours. 

When I read posts about how an MIL was giving advice where non was solicited, or telling the DIL how to do something, etc., it kind of makes sense that there could be mixed signals going on.  That's why we don't ever get in their business.  Nevertheless, being around her is still a chore.  I can bet something I'll say ("Wow, it's really sunny out there today.") will offend her.

[Sassy]

Your whole post was great, Creme.

Bud this pun was the best!

So, that is my advice...even with the most difficult of DIL's....we need to bud out...and grow in a different direction, it is healthy and good

[cremebrulee]

THAT my friend, just went into the MIL and Mother hall of fame!

thanks so much...however, it is how most mothers do see it...I can't tell you how many people told me I just had to let go, and honestly, I didn't understand, but when I did, things started to change, big time!

[cremebrulee]

Wow, Creme! 

All I am going to add is that our sons have to decide. Some remain close to us without hanging on to our apron strings, some try to and fail...and some don't even try. They have different dispositions, different goals and different wives. The ball is in their court.

We have been "let go"... as Creme says, whether we let go or not. For a very long time we were the ultimate authority...no more. And that's a good thing. Kids become adults by standing tall. We did, remember? And life isn't over...we were fine before we became mothers and we can be fine again.

AMEN to that!  And thanks so much...

[cremebrulee]

Awesome post Creme-

Early in my marriage, my MIL "sweetly" tried to advise us about housekeeping, childcare, car selection, type of lunch meat to purchase, the temperature the dryer should be set on, etc.  The problem was that I had been married prior to her son, and had 2 small children already.  I had been running my own household for year before hubby came along.  These little "hints" drove me bananas.  MIL was never rude or mean spirited, but she annoyed us (yes- husband included) at almost every visit.  Then one day at lunch, MIL started complaining about how HER mother, Nadine, always tries to tell her how to run her life.  Hubby burst out laughing.  Now, anytime MIL starts overstepping the bounds with her advice, hubby says something like, "Okay Nadine". MIL will laugh and apologize.  I really don't think she ever made the connection between how her mother made her feel, and how she was treating us.  She is now aware, and things are much more pleasant.

Good one, and great way to handle it...yanno, when I started to remember my mil, and how she drove me nuts, well, I also remembered, I was young, excited to start my new life as a wife and mother, and run my own household...however, everytime she suggested to do things a different way, she didn't realize, but she was out and out saying my way was wrong...you cannot put two women in a household, it doesn't work...

Thanks so much
Creme

[cremebrulee]

Creme, read your post.  Not the issue here.  My son & DIL live about 30 minutes away.  We have never gone over unexpectedly.  We only go when we're invited, or in my husband's case, our son will ask him to stop by and help with stuff at the house.  So he does.  (We have a pickup, they don't and need help with yard waste, etc.)  We do not tell either how to manage their finances, how to run the household, how to clean, where to shop, what to cook, etc.  That being said, when I do make a comment, such as, "You should read the latest 'John Doe' novel, it's really good," my DIL whines to my son that I'm being bossy telling her what to do.  I'm not.  I don't give a rat's behind if she reads it or not, it was simply a random comment.  Thus, I have to watch what I say to the point that it's hard to have a conversation.  I can't think of anything that she really has to complain about.  They're invited to our home for all the holidays, we remember their birthdays, altho DIL never bothered to so much as call either me or hubby on ours. 

When I read posts about how an MIL was giving advice where non was solicited, or telling the DIL how to do something, etc., it kind of makes sense that there could be mixed signals going on.  That's why we don't ever get in their business.  Nevertheless, being around her is still a chore.  I can bet something I'll say ("Wow, it's really sunny out there today.") will offend her.

I'm sorry this is happening to you both...why don't you sit down and talk to her?  Not now, but give it time, and later on, when you feel the time is right communicate your sadness to her...tell her you understand because you were a DIL once yourself, and you want her to tell you when something is wrong.  If you don't and leave it go, everytime either one of you say something to each other, it's going to escalate in your minds and make things worse...thru fear of not being able to be yourself, your always going to be walking on egg shells...we cannot change who we are...tell her that...tell her you know you have faults...don't direct any blame towards her...she doesn't feel confident with you for some reason and this will continue on until it's talked out...and maybe it won't be remedied right away, maybe it will take years, like it did me...I was so afraid to talk to her...to reassure her that I didn't dislike her that I wanted to get along...and that I didn't hate her.

Yes, your situation is much different from mine, every situation is different, but if we want to get along we must adopt some new way of thinking, we must change "our" attitudes...which alone helps DIL feel more confident....not much has to be said, believe me....and to get into, well you did this or that is not good either....just talk to her, but more then talking, listen...with compassion and understanding and the strong desire to want her to understand your not her enemy....

I was scared to death, however, I did talk with my MIL and it helped and she was hurt, yes, indeed, b/c she meant no harm...she was only doing what she had done for years...but it didn't work for me...

I'm not saying your doing anything wrong, what your DIL has to understand is, your simply being who you are....nothing more....let her know you expect nothing and if you step on her toes, ask her to kindly let you know that your hurting her feelings...

Gosh when I think back to my youth as a young wife, I was so freaking sensitive...more then most...and I'm going to tell you something that not many of you are going to like...however, it is a proven fact, that our son's see something in they're wives that remind them of us, they're mothers...therefore, it may also be a battle of wills....

Whatever it is, there are reasons, and some of those reasons you may think are awfully foolish and immature, however, it is the way she thinks and feels at this moment in time...when she gets to be our age, she will not understand...so until then, it is our job to reassure through actions that we are not a threat to them...

Maybe your DIL hates to read, and when you said that, it made her feel less then competant...one never knows what is going on in the other person's mind...right then and there, you should have softly reassured her...yanno, I forget that not everyone likes to read...and I apologize, sometimes I just go on and on about things I like and get very excited about them, and I mean no insult to you...you could also explain that you've thought about things and maybe your a nervous talker because you want so much for the two of you to get along....

But find out what it is that hurt her, offends her or intimidates her and then reassure her like you would your own child, that you meant no harm.

When you let things go...we start to imagine all kinds of things, believe me I know, and I said a lot of the same words you all are saying now....

I'm not working against you, I'm on your side, and wanted peace in my life so badly that I had to change my whole attitude...and I was wrong in a lot of ways, but I couldn't see it then...I wouldn't see it, I kept saying, what did I to??  I didn't do anything wrong...but I did....well, neither of us did, we were just being ourselves, who we are....

My DIL doesn't make a lot of thank you calls either, she is just that way, and she certainly is not going to change...just like I'm not...it's not a matter of who is wrong or right, it's a matter of how we all are raised....
doesn't make me right and her wrong, or visa versa...it's simply a matter of who we are...and understanding that, respecting that...people are people and you can't change them...all we can change is our own attitudes...there is presently friction between you two, she feels it and is probably very uncomfortable around you...afraid, and insecure, just as you are, both fearing rejection....it's a personality clash...for the first time in our lives, we are no longer in control...and we run around like chicken's without heads, b/c we don't understand that...our son's never talked back to us, however, I bet may times they wanted to, but didn't.  We just have to change how we think, and feel about all these things...and look for other thing in ourlives to make us happy....create things for us and our husbands to look forward to...this is the time in our lives, when we get to spend quality time with our husbands, get to know them again, prioritize them....because if we don't, we are affecting so manyother lives besides our own...


please understand, I'm not saying your doing anything wrong, or siding with your DIL, there is no right or wrong here...and so many of these things could be cleared up...talk to her, find out she is willing and never close the door if she is not ready...understand, no two people are ever on the same plain at the same time....there are times your huybby is romantic and your not, same thing...just try and be patient, and give it time...don't smother, be yourself...and when the time is right and you feel like there is no anger, so you won't point fingers at her, but more so, take ownership in this...find out what upsets her about you, and don't take it to heart...reassure her that you will try very hard to remember that, and you don't mean to hurt her...it's just the way you are....and you mean no insult.

does that make any sense?

[cremebrulee]

Your whole post was great, Creme.

Bud this pun was the best!

So, that is my advice...even with the most difficult of DIL's....we need to bud out...and grow in a different direction, it is healthy and good

Life is growth and change, it just is...and the older we get, sometimes the harder change is, and we should never allow that to happen....just look at Luise and the change she and her hubby have been made to face....and yet, from all things comes so many good things, we just sometimes have to look for them and trust life...trust nature to know best...there is a season for all things...unfortunately life is not always fair...but the harder we fight it, the more we hurt ourselves....

Thanks so much Sassy...so good to see you....

[stilltryen]

Hey creme, thanks for the post.  No, DIL loves to read - which is why I might make suggestions on having her read something I've recently read.  She always grabs books when she's over here, takes them home and reads them, then sends them back.  Thus I know she pretty much enjoys what I read, but I honestly, honestly don't care what she reads at all.  I have also tried to talk to her.  I had dinner with her one evening and told her, "Hey, we love you.  You're the daughter we never had, blah, blah, blah," but the next time I turn around, my son will be telling me quietly that she's upset because I said . . .  whatever.  I totally understand about her being young, although not that young.  She's in her early 30's, so she should have picked up a little wisdom by now.  That's one of the reasons we keep our distance and don't interfere.  We want them to get a good, healthy start on their marriage.  (Of course, none of this applies to her own parents, who are there all the time and they do things with them constantly.  Evidently my son has to put up with her parents without complaining.)  That's why I get really irritated with her, we simply don't bug them, don't interfere, don't try to tell them what to do - so when we see them for a couple of hours every 6 or 8 weeks, is it really too much to ask that she quit acting like every word out of my mouth is a direct hit against her?  Sheesh.  Oh, and did I mention that she's always criticizing our parenting skills?  She thinks we're doing a horrible job with our younger sons.  This last time I wanted to say, "DIL, the day that I ask you for money, or for a roof, or clothes or anything else for those boys, then you can feel free to chime in.  Until that day, I raised your husband and you had no qualms chasing him until you finally got him.  So buzz off!!"  What I said was, "Hmmm, maybe you have a point," then changed the subject abruptly.  She got the message, because, of course, I heard about it later. 

And thank goodness for this site, I can vent to my heart's content.

[Nana]

Dear Creme:

As I said everyone has a way of seeing things....it all depends how it went for you.    When I read still's post....at least half of the first paragraph seemed my story....sounded as me.    We (hubby and I never did we visit unless invited, we never called or e-mail them unless it was an emergency.  We never try to tell them how to run their marriage, their kids, their finances, their house.  We only raise our hand when they needed help.  In my case and in many others, it is not that we were used to be the "matron""   or that we fell that our game was over.    We understood the time changes and people does too.  We underrstood that now they were a family and that we were seconds and it was okey with us.  Never did I think that my grandson was mine.....it was clear to me that I was only the grandmother who loved him with all my heart. 

You said that you realize that you have done things wrong.  Good for you because you were humble enough to recognize also your faults....but believe me, in many cases and mine was one, I never did anything wrong.   Expectations?  Well probably I  did something wrong....have high expectations....that was all I can acuse myself of.    I expected to be treated as my son's daughter and my grandson's nanny. 

Thank God...things turn out great for me.  But it wasnt because I took all the heat.  They worked out because I spoke my heart out. 

I do get along very well with dil now.  I still respect her wishes and rules but she gives me the place I deserve.   I give her her place too.  I do not expect from her material things, nor do I want her to love as she loves her mom.    By the way, Creme, remember that when these difficult dil are giving hell to their husband's family, they are completely different with their own family.  So what is different here?  All that you mentioned about stepping back because they are a new family only applies for the son's family not the dil's family?

Only my opinion.   

I am very glad that it worked for you. 

[Pen]

Stilltryen, your DIL is so similar to mine I think they might be the same women. I, too, have been diligent about not butting in; no calls, no emails, no drop-ins. No advice, no criticism, no comments.

[cremebrulee]

Hey creme, thanks for the post.  No, DIL loves to read - which is why I might make suggestions on having her read something I've recently read.  She always grabs books when she's over here, takes them home and reads them, then sends them back.  Thus I know she pretty much enjoys what I read, but I honestly, honestly don't care what she reads at all.  I have also tried to talk to her.  I had dinner with her one evening and told her, "Hey, we love you.  You're the daughter we never had, blah, blah, blah," but the next time I turn around, my son will be telling me quietly that she's upset because I said . . .  whatever.  I totally understand about her being young, although not that young.  She's in her early 30's, so she should have picked up a little wisdom by now.  That's one of the reasons we keep our distance and don't interfere.  We want them to get a good, healthy start on their marriage.  (Of course, none of this applies to her own parents, who are there all the time and they do things with them constantly.  Evidently my son has to put up with her parents without complaining.)  That's why I get really irritated with her, we simply don't bug them, don't interfere, don't try to tell them what to do - so when we see them for a couple of hours every 6 or 8 weeks, is it really too much to ask that she quit acting like every word out of my mouth is a direct hit against her?  Sheesh.  Oh, and did I mention that she's always criticizing our parenting skills?  She thinks we're doing a horrible job with our younger sons.  This last time I wanted to say, "DIL, the day that I ask you for money, or for a roof, or clothes or anything else for those boys, then you can feel free to chime in.  Until that day, I raised your husband and you had no qualms chasing him until you finally got him.  So buzz off!!"  What I said was, "Hmmm, maybe you have a point," then changed the subject abruptly.  She got the message, because, of course, I heard about it later. 

And thank goodness for this site, I can vent to my heart's content.

yes, indeed, thank goodness for this site, and thanks so much for taking the time to read my posts....as I said so many times before, to try and let everyone know, my situation is not written in stone for everyone else...everyone's situation is different...and I do understand what your saying, your feelings and perspectives...it's very difficult to walk on egg shells around someone....please know in all sincerity...all I can offer here are a few suggestions from my experiences....I wish I could wave a magic wand and give everyone answers, so no one would have to experience this awful thing...believe me, I know the pain, frustration and desire to want to work things out...but I also know how stubborn I was...and kept saying over and over in my own head, "I didn't do anything wrong?"  or "What did I do". 

What I would suggest to you, the next time son says something to you which your DIL claims to have hurt her feelings, I'd go right to her, when son is there with you....and explain to her, what I said, was not in the least bit directed at you personally....I was speaking in general, and it really upsets me that you think I'm speaking to you in a way, that would hurt you....I'm not, this is "me" who I am....please don't think those things...there is nothing in the world I want more then for you to understand that....and keep talking to her everytime things happen...be sincere and direct...but talk it out and keep reassuring her.  Sometimes, people are so insecure that they take things people talk about in a group even, personal...

as far as her wanting to be with her parents...I can understand your hurt...and it's not fair and DIL's should realize, how important it is for her family to spend time with her parents.  Yanno, I have a girlfriend, whose DIL's would rather spend time with her then they're own parents...but in your case, that is your DIL's comfort zone...she sounds very insecure...and I bet your son is constantly having to prove to her he loves her in all these situations to reassure her....and sometimes women use this as a crutch...I don't know, you are the only one who knows the answers to a lot of these questions....but I cannot stress enough the importance of talking things out...one on one and face to face...never in a letter or email...b/c words are so taken wrong....

I'm sorry I can't be of more help....really I am....and I'm glad your here to vent and obtain perspectives from others....this is a site of really great ladies....who care....

Love to you and yours...
Creme

[cremebrulee]

Nana
Dear Creme:

As I said everyone has a way of seeing things....it all depends how it went for you.    When I read still's post....at least half of the first paragraph seemed my story....sounded as me.    We (hubby and I never did we visit unless invited, we never called or e-mail them unless it was an emergency.  We never try to tell them how to run their marriage, their kids, their finances, their house.  We only raise our hand when they needed help.  In my case and in many others, it is not that we were used to be the "matron""   or that we fell that our game was over.    We understood the time changes and people does too.  We understood that now they were a family and that we were seconds and it was okay with us.  Never did I think that my grandson was mine.....it was clear to me that I was only the grandmother who loved him with all my heart. 

Hi Nana, thanks for taking the time to respond...one thing that I hope you understand is that we're communicating only ideas here, and speaking from our hearts, our very own experiences...each of us, well simply put, that is all we have to work with...so, all I'm trying to do is throw out ideas from my perspectives and my experiences....I am not in any way directing these things I'm writing to anyone personally...but speaking in general...this can be a very painful, frustrating and hot topic for all involved....everyone's experience is completely different...I simply wanted to share my feelings hoping that maybe in my words somewhere there might be some clarity for someone...and I do sincerely hope you and everyone else understands that...

You said that you realize that you have done things wrong.  Good for you because you were humble enough to recognize also your faults....but believe me, in many cases and mine was one, I never did anything wrong.   Expectations?  Well probably I  did something wrong....have high expectations....that was all I can accuse myself of.    I expected to be treated as my son's daughter and my grandson's nanny.

I had many expectations...it was like I was living in my own world, expecting DIL to love me right away, as much as son did...expected her to know me and love me....expected her to be just like son, very much like my own daughter....expected her to immediately know that all my actions, and words were who I was, and not directed at her or any kind of intent to hurt her, I was just being myself...however, she didn't know me, she and I both were insecure...and we both had a whole separate way of doing things and what we believed in....and when we both challenged those beliefs, that's when the trouble started.  I was raised, that when you receive a gift from someone, you call them and thank them...and never forget to do so....I was also raised by my mom, to call people from time to time to let them know, "Hi, I'm thinking for you...wanted to call you and let you know, lets chat".  I was raised that when I have a dinner party for someone, they are the guests, and they do no work, nor do they help me clear the table...they are supposed to sit and relax, and let me weight on them, this is they're night.....and they are special guests for that time....however, DIL was raised differently...she wanted to help and when I said no, she took it as a rejection from me...I never knew that, and visa versa...it doesn't say I'm right or wrong in my feelings about these things that I'm using as examples....and instead of overlooking them, we both took very small things like that as personal attacks....
And then, left go, as women do, we never forget, so that is another notch in the belt, another thing DIL or MIL did that hurt me...and the more things are left go and unspoken the more things build up and are taken wrong until it is almost unrepairable...more hurt sets in, then anger, then we start to take more things personal...do you understand where I'm going with this?

So, expectations of others, especially DIL's and MIL's can be so completely different....and what I'm saying is, I wish now, I would have stepped back...observed unbiased, and got to know my MIL...instead, I went forth and appeared to be very controlling and probably interferring. 

Here is one thing that helped to start all this....DIL invited me to HER home for thanksgiving...my son contacted me and asked me if I'd help her cook the dinner...as this was the first time for her....sure, I said and sent him a grocery list of things we would need.  Now, mind you, he never mentioned this to her....I assumed she was asking him to ask me this.  I'm a good cook, and he's always said I should open a restaurant....and simply figured she wanted my advice.  Well, when I went to visit, I started making the filling/stuffing and saw something was wrong, but never thought I was interferring....so I kept doing things like this with her dinner, opening the oven and checking her turkey...man did that hurt her....unbeknown to both of us, she never wanted me to help, she wanted to do the dinner...I didn't know...and that was the very first time I went to visit...it doesn't matter who was wrong or right here, or that son miscommunicated it, and then didn't want to hurt her feelings...so, he never told her, that he contacted me and asked me to do that...if he had, he'd have gotten in heap of trouble...and I'm laughing now, and it's not important whose fault it was, what is important is, to understand, that it was misperception, assumptions and expectation...and when you think about it now, it was a very small thing, but at the time, it was huge....huge...and hurt her deeply...and I will tell you, if it had been me, I'd have been disjointed big time...so, here is one small example of how things got off kilter....and when we can both sit down and discuss these things, we realize how we misperceived things....that may seem very small to you, but to her, they are huge, or visa versa....

I'm not stating that this is how things are with you....I'm only trying to open windows a little at a time....

When this was going on with my DIL...I went on a DIL site...and a lot of those DIL's lost patience with me, and really hammered me...and it was wrong of them to do, however, I kept insisting I did nothing wrong and every time they tried to give me an explanation for DIL's actions, I became very hurt and upset, and thought they were not seeing my point of views....I wasn't ready to consider that I had done something , not wrong, mind you, but something that upset dil...doesn't really mean I was wrong....however, my actions, or something I said, upset my dil and made her not only hurt, but nervous around me. 

when the lights started coming on, and I was able to consider HER feelings, and believe me, it took me so darn long, it hurts me know to realize, how stubborn I was, and how I didn't have a clue...doesn't say DIL was right, and I was wrong...what I'm saying is, that we both didn't realize, that these personal things that happened were not intended to hurt or directed at each other, however, both of us took it that way.  It was God awful...and could have easily been corrected if both of us would have sat down and talked to each other, but more so, listened to each other.

Of course DIL wants to be with her parents more....I'm not saying it's right and I know how much it hurts...it hurts awful...but, being with her parents more is her comfort zone, it isn't that she is rejecting you personally, it's simply where she wants to be, is it fair, no...heck no...b/c we deserve quality time with our sons...however....dil's don't mean to be sending a message to us, that they don't want to be around us, it's simply that she loves her family and wants to be there with them, instead of with us...it's her comfort zone....and so many of us take that personal....

How do you think I feel when I hear my son calls his stepmother MOM?  Same things....how do you think I felt all those years 12 years, when my son and DIL, and grand daughter chose my ex husband (my son's father) and his wife over me....and stayed there all the time, but would never stay over night at my home, they'd just come for short visits, a few hours and then leave...God that tore me apart...and to boot, I was so excited to see them, and they'd come for a few hours and leave, and I'd sit and cry and cry....the pain of that was awful...and I dislike my son's stepmom a lot, she has done some very hurtful things, said some very hurtful things, unthinkable and unacceptable, and my son knows this, yet makes excuses for her....how do you think I felt?  Who was wrong here....but you know what, I'll take what I can get....what they give me, b/c I love them, very very much...just like you love your kids....

My son chose my DIL to love to cherish forever....she may not think and feel like me, she may forget to say thank you's....she may take my son by the arm and walk ahead of me, when we go out to dinner, and not include me in conversation while walking, but it's not directed at me, that is the way she is....and I won't allow anything she does or says to upset me any more...b/c I thought she was saying to me, "Your not welcome".  I thought when we were having coffee at the restaurant and she stood up and said "READY", and walked out...she was saying to me, I don't want to be here with you, I don't like you, and I thought that was God awful rude...however, it wasn't meant to be like that....she always does that...she can sit only so long and then she's got to go...I was raised that you sit and have coffee and have long conversations over coffee and dessert, that was family time....that was quality time...does it make me right and her wrong, no...it doesn't...it's simply who we are...what may seem rude to me, isn't rude to her...or visa versa...and we've made a pact with each other to tell each other when something like that happens again...to get it out in the open right away...she told me she was sorry and she is going to try to change, and I told her, don't change a thing for me, this is who you are....just be yourself, I'm fine with it, now that I realize, it wasn't directed at me.  I don't' want her to change for me...I want her to be comfortable...around me...

Thank God...things turn out great for me.  But it wasn't because I took all the heat.  They worked out because I spoke my heart out.

I don't view it as taking all the heat...I view it as understanding the other person, is totally different from me...has totally different views, and realize no one can conform to my way of thinking...we have been conditioned from little on up to think, feel and believe certain ways...like our faith, the way we do things....feel about things...what I'm trying to explain here is, just because I feel one way about something and you feel another, doesn't make you right and me wrong...or me right and you wrong, there is no right or wrong answer, it is however, simply how you were raised to do things and believe....I wasn't wrong, she wasn't wrong, we simply perceived our actions towards each other as personal attacks....they weren't....and over time, it built up, and more little things happened, and each time someting else happened we each went, ahhh hah!!!  See, she hates me....she is doing this thing to hurt me, or she is doing this to drive a wedge between my son and me, or my husband and me, and honest ta God we were not....but we perceived it that way....and little things build into huge problems...mole hills became huge gigantic mountains and every thing got so blown out of proportion...and we were both hurting terrible for years....
So, while being open, direct, honest and upfront may work for some, it might work the opposite for others, however, I do so now wish right from the beginning I would have sat down and talked with both of them and listened as well and not taken everything they said as a personal attack.

When I tried talking to my son and explaining situations he became very defensive of her, and when she tried to talk to him about me, he defended me, both her and I took that as an awful disloyalty on his part...I was devastated, b/c I thought he was telling me I was wrong, he wasn't, he was telling me, what I did, that hurt her, and I wouldn't see it...I wouldn't admit, that b/c I refused to eat a breakfast she made for me, that hurt her so deeply for years it festered inside her....and I'm not going to explain the whole breakfast thing...but she was eager to please me, and I can't eat breakfast....and she was so hurt, and understandably so....

I do get along very well with dil now.  I still respect her wishes and rules but she gives me the place I deserve.   I give her her place too.  I do not expect from her material things, nor do I want her to love as she loves her mom. 

I'm very happy to hear this...I'm sure you understand, it's all about sitting back and understanding her personality...and allowing her without taking things she said, or you said as a personal attack against each other....but to let a lot of things roll off, no one is perfect, we can all be a perfect pain in the butt with the way we do things....and understanding that, is so important...people are people, they are who they are, and we are not going to change them. 

and yes, indeed, no one should expect a DIL or SIL to love them as much as they're own mothers...however, if it happens, that is a plus, if it doesn't it's perfectly understandable.

By the way, Creme, remember that when these difficult dil are giving hell to their husband's family, they are completely different with their own family.  So what is different here?

The difference is unfortunate, that her family or his family does not understand all the above, and that is very sad...however, I have sat back and observed people for a long time....and I don't know how or why, but there are some people, who don't have to speak any words...you just simply know, that you don't cross them...meaning, you don't cross boundaries, cuz if you did, that you might not ever be welcomed again...like my girlfriend...there is this special air about them, that you just know you immediately need to behave yourself or you will loose them as a friend...if anyone can tell me the secret to that, I would love to know....because I've always made myself a victim....in the past...not anymore...but I would love to know the secret to that kind of confidence...

All that you mentioned about stepping back because they are a new family only applies for the son's family not the dil's family?

Yes, in some cases, it does, where the DIL is very insecure...and needs her parents in her life to feel comfortable...unfortunately we as mother's of son's do loose some of our son's...meaning, the closeness we once had isn't there anymore, and it never will be again....why, b/c he now has a wife, that he discusses things with, she is his confidant, his first and foremost, and that is the way it should be....our job is now over...we take a different role now....our son's have matured, they've grown up, they want to live they're own lives, they want to make they're wives happy, and if she's happy being with her parents more, that is where he is going to go...it isn't meant to hurt, even though it does....it's simply that the husbands usually go where the wives want to be....why, b/c these men want to make they're wives happy....keep peace and harmony in their family....it's the thing to do....is it right, no...someone ends up getting hurt....however....I've had to do this most of my son's life....so I'm used to it....when he was growing up, I refused to put him in the middle of his father and me, playing tug of war with a child, so everytime a holiday came up, I asked her where he wanted to be more....and if he said his father, I smiled and said, then that's where you should be....I want you to be happy....and I meant it...I've seen to many children torn between they're parents and I refused to do it to my son....his happiness comes first...always...and if that means, I don't see him, so be it....he's a man now, and the harder I fight it, the more he's going to stay away...he's not going to come to a place where he feels uncomfortable...I wouldn't.....

Only my opinion.

different opinions and perspectives are great tools for discussion and sharing ideas...thank you....
   

I am very glad that it worked for you.

boy I am to, thank you....

hugs creme

[Pooh]

Still, Nana and Pen all share similar stories with me.  And when I was reading Creme's posts, I was thinking in my head, "Oh, well that part doesn't apply to me", "Nope..nope...I don't do that, "That isn't what happens with my DIL."  That is how I started on this forum.  Reading everyone's suggestions, stories and advice and taking in what applied and discarded what didn't. 

Now I have come to realize that just because I don't feel I did anything wrong, doesn't mean I didn't.  I can do everything 100% right but still be having these problems because of how the other person feels.   I am still right there with you Pen, Nana and Still because I have a DIL that has a narcissistic personality.  Doesn't matter what I do or what I say, she is going to take it wrong.  So I came here looking for solutions on how to get her to understand me.  What I have discovered, is that she is not going to change so I should of been looking for solutions on how to understand her.  And if I truly can understand her, maybe...just maybe, I can improve our relationship.  I know it is a two-way street and she has to cross to the centerline as well, but if I can understand her better, maybe she will. 

That is why I love this website.  It allows me the opportunity to see opinions, different angles and other people's perceptions on a situation.  Sometimes the ladies agree with me and give me validation, and sometimes they give me a different perspective to think about.  Doesn't mean I am wrong....it just means there is another way to look at it.  And that is why I appreciate every lady on here.  I want to reach out and hug all the ones that agree with me and I want to throw a spit wad at Creme and others sometimes for making me sit back and say, "Well....well......OK...fine, maybe she has a point."  They are not saying I am wrong, they are saying, "Hey, I had a situation and this worked for me."  Is it going to work for me?  Maybe....maybe not...but I am learning it is not about what I am doing wrong or right, it is about what my DIL perceives I am doing wrong or right.

I lurked around on a DIL sight for a little while, thinking maybe I could gain some perspective from their side and I was totally shocked by something one of them wrote.  And here is something that I thought I was doing totally right and this DIL made me realize that my DIL may be looking at it like she was.   One of the MILs was saying, "I have not done anything to her to deserve this.  I have treated her like a daughter."  The DIL wrote back and said, "Do you realize that might be the problem?  My MIL did the same thing and told everyone that I was like her daughter and all I could think of was great....she thinks of me as a child.  It hurt my feelings because I didn't want to be her child.  I wanted to form an equal relationship with her.  Love me like a daughter, but treat me like an adult."

Wow. I said the same thing to my DIL in the beginning.  Here I thought I was being a loving, caring, supporting MIL letting her know that I would love her just like she was my daughter.  I thought I was honoring her by telling her that.  I thought she would be happy to think I was going to love her that much.  And this is what she could have been hearing?  When I said those words, this could be what she thought?  Was I wrong?  Was she wrong?  Oh wait....that doesn't matter.  What matters is that I may have said something that hurt our relationship without even knowing it.  My "I did this right" just might have turned into a "Uh oh".  What a novel concept.....

[cremebrulee]

Still, Nana and Pen all share similar stories with me.  And when I was reading Creme's posts, I was thinking in my head, "Oh, well that part doesn't apply to me", "Nope..nope...I don't do that, "That isn't what happens with my DIL."  That is how I started on this forum.  Reading everyone's suggestions, stories and advice and taking in what applied and discarded what didn't. 

Now I have come to realize that just because I don't feel I did anything wrong, doesn't mean I didn't.  I can do everything 100% right but still be having these problems because of how the other person feels.   I am still right there with you Pen, Nana and Still because I have a DIL that has a narcissistic personality.  Doesn't matter what I do or what I say, she is going to take it wrong.  So I came here looking for solutions on how to get her to understand me.  What I have discovered, is that she is not going to change so I should of been looking for solutions on how to understand her.  And if I truly can understand her, maybe...just maybe, I can improve our relationship.  I know it is a two-way street and she has to cross to the centerline as well, but if I can understand her better, maybe she will. 

That is why I love this website.  It allows me the opportunity to see opinions, different angles and other people's perceptions on a situation.  Sometimes the ladies agree with me and give me validation, and sometimes they give me a different perspective to think about.  Doesn't mean I am wrong....it just means there is another way to look at it.  And that is why I appreciate every lady on here.  I want to reach out and hug all the ones that agree with me and I want to throw a spit wad at Creme and others sometimes for making me sit back and say, "Well....well......OK...fine, maybe she has a point."  They are not saying I am wrong, they are saying, "Hey, I had a situation and this worked for me."  Is it going to work for me?  Maybe....maybe not...but I am learning it is not about what I am doing wrong or right, it is about what my DIL perceives I am doing wrong or right.

I lurked around on a DIL sight for a little while, thinking maybe I could gain some perspective from their side and I was totally shocked by something one of them wrote.  And here is something that I thought I was doing totally right and this DIL made me realize that my DIL may be looking at it like she was.   One of the MILs was saying, "I have not done anything to her to deserve this.  I have treated her like a daughter."  The DIL wrote back and said, "Do you realize that might be the problem?  My MIL did the same thing and told everyone that I was like her daughter and all I could think of was great....she thinks of me as a child.  It hurt my feelings because I didn't want to be her child.  I wanted to form an equal relationship with her.  Love me like a daughter, but treat me like an adult."

Wow. I said the same thing to my DIL in the beginning.  Here I thought I was being a loving, caring, supporting MIL letting her know that I would love her just like she was my daughter.  I thought I was honoring her by telling her that.  I thought she would be happy to think I was going to love her that much.  And this is what she could have been hearing?  When I said those words, this could be what she thought?  Was I wrong?  Was she wrong?  Oh wait....that doesn't matter.  What matters is that I may have said something that hurt our relationship without even knowing it.  My "I did this right" just might have turned into a "Uh oh".  What a novel concept.....

Pooh, thanks so much for understanding....and your absolutely right...but I have to say, what DIL's do not understand is, we're not treating them like a child, accepting them and wanting them to be like a daughter to us, is the highest honor any mother in law could bestow on a DIL....to be accepted like that...so unconditionally, which is what we all did....why, b/c our son's loved them....and, if they love our son's...they they should also understand, that maybe the clash is b/c there are some parts of you that are like MIL....they say that usually a son will marry a woman who reminds him of his mother....and yanno, my son used to tell me that my DIL were so much alike in a lot of ways...and I'd say, no we're not...but we are....we really are....and in a lot of ways we are so not alike, so opposite...

I can't tell you how excited I am that you get what I'm trying to say....thank you....

[luise.volta]

We all got it, Creme, and were touched to the core. Sending love...