distant, disinterested, spiteful daughter in law

[PFORTE]

Do any body recommend confronting her about what she dislikes about me.

I know it's not the popular answer - But I do recommend having a chat with her.  Pick one or two areas that you'd like to discuss (not your entire relationship!) - things that seem solvable.  Engage her help in creating a stronger relationship with her for the benefit of her husband/your son.  After all - you both love him!  If something dreaded were to happen, you'd be thrown together in the worst of times - it's important to learn to get along.  And no, I don't mean "remake" yourself, but some times, chatting over a cup of coffee about something can REALLY open your eyes as to how the other person perceives you.  Perhaps you say "Oh that's a laugh!" and you mean it's a joke.  But she hears "Oh that's a laugh!" and to her it means you're saying SHE is a joke.  The subtleties of conversation are heart-wrenching.  She didn't grow up with you - she doesn't understand your nuances.  And You have to be willing to take a step back and see where your habits may seem offensive, as will she.  There's a huge chasm in between "You didn't do anything wrong" and "You've done lots of things right" - we need to build bridges across that chasm, one at a time, till a true loving relationship is there and can withstand everyone's various moods and differences.

But start with something EASY to solve. Something you can work together on.  Maybe some plans for your son's bday. Call her up "We'd like to take you guys to dinner to celebrate his birthday, but I don't want to interfere with any plans you might be making or he might already have - can you suggest any dates that would work?  I was thinking xx yy zz".  It will go a LONG way for her to see that you respect that she is FIRST in his life.  You're respecting her, acknowledging that SHE is the Queen in his life now, and including her as a welcome asset. 

I also think it's CRITICAL to re-affirm that it IS their life, and you whole heartedly respect that.  It's not "Your Granddaughter" - it's "Her Daughter" and until she's POSITIVE that you respect that that comes first, there will always be tension. "I'd like to get a new summer outfit for your daughter - but I'm never sure what you like her to wear - can we go pick something out and I'll pay?"

I think people are only spiteful when they're hurt and/or threatened.  As the "older / wiser" woman it's our job to toss a bone, and WORK ON making peace and a loving environment for our grandbabies.  Our children's spouse is not someone that we will ever win against in a battle of "who loves ya more" - so we have to love our children enough to let go, and love their spouse enough to hold on.

We all say and do things that are hurtful.  We seldom mean to.  Working to peace is well worth the journey.

Best of luck!  Don't give up - that "other woman" is someone your child thinks is the BEST person in the world - there's got to be SOMETHING of value in them! :-)  Try to see her(him) through your child's eyes - it might help.

[jdtm]

PFORTE - maybe "discussing" areas with some DILs might work; with others it will not.  In our situation, our ex-DIL suffers from mental health issues (subtle, but nonetheless present).  Any hint of negativity or perceived hint of negativity resulted in rages and temper tantrums.  I'm not saying this is the issue in this thread; however, many of us found our way to this site because of personality disorders and/or mental health issues.  My point - be careful as some people can not/will not accept any form of criticism (actual or perceived).  In our case it was perceived - silent treatment for eight years was result.  Funny - since the divorce, she actually will speak to us now (except my husband will not reciprocate - he had enough).  Me - I'm polite, distantly, for the sake of the grandchildren.  Now with our second DIL .... 

[Stilllearning]

I agree jdtm....my DIL is in therapy and if I say something looks better she takes it as an insult to the way it looked before.  I have found the only way to deal with her is to ignore the silent treatment she gives and never initiate contact with her or my DS.  If I initiate contact she gets even more insecure and pulls away even harder.  Luckily my pulling away has made them step closer, but that is not always the case.  I had to be ready for the other option when I stepped back, but in my case I saw nothing to lose.

[Footloose]

I think the mental health issue is a big part in my case too.  "Get back on Facebook so it's easy to get pics of the kids." After my resistance, I gave in and reopened my acct. Not one week later, I get a news feed where she is dripping over granaries day and how her kids think their papa and nana  are the best ever. DH and I got no mention.  I fired Facebook for the last time and have a no social media policy that will remain. I call this treatment a poke in the eye.
Got another poke yesterday. No word on Mother's Day but a text of my GD smiling for the camera.  No words just her pic. I ignored it until this AM and messaged back with a shot reply.....good morning cutie pie.....

[Stilllearning]

I don't think my DIL realized that her posts on FB were hurting my feelings so I told her.  I told her that I was not going to be on facebook very much anymore because my feelings were hurt when I found out that she and my DS and GD went just miles from my house and never stopped in.  I told her it was their right to do that but it still hurt my feelings and it was my right to not know about it.  I have not had any repercussions from it and their posts have calmed down.  Sometimes it is better to tell them how their actions make you feel than it is to tell them to stop acting a certain way.   

[Footloose]

I tried the direct approach and it didn't work either and ya know why?  It's NOT about ME! I know this dynamic too well after 6 years of it.  If I had told her the truth, she would have blown it up as another problem that is mine to solve.  I just know it would do no good but rather give her what she wants, a scrimmage.  I just said that social media is not for me, which is the real truth and I have always had issues with it. If I was honest, she would have denied it and said oh you are too sensitive, don't be jealous, we love you too, yak, yak, yak...Then she would go to my son and tell him I am off my meds again.....(joke ONLY)  My choice to use FB or not and I choose NOT. Nuff said?

[Footloose]

BTW,  the very worst FB story:

GS nbr2 was turning3.  DH and I got invited over on his birthday to celebrate:) DIL calls the morning of and asks if I can pick up cake and decor.  i say cool and bring over the party essentials. 

Soon after we arrive, it is apparent that it will only be us 2 and DH/DIL w/ GKs. I ask where everyone else is and am told they couldn't make it.  Nice!

The next Monday I get FB news feed of the "real" party that excluded me and DH but included everyone else.....yup, poke in da eye!!!!

[Stilllearning]

FL....How horrible!!  I am so sorry that you are in that situation!  I think you are handling it better than I would.  Good luck and hang in there!

[Pooh]

I think it's great PFORTE that you have the ability to do this.  My experience has been that having a chat only works if the other party is receptive.  And it took me a long time of trying to come to the realization that it wasn't about me at all.  And also to understand that when a person isn't interested in a relationship with you at all, they will find fault with anything you do, real or not.

People hear what they choose to hear and believe what they choose to believe. 

[confusedbyinlaws]

Do any body recommend confronting her about what she dislikes about me.

The subtleties of conversation are heart-wrenching.  She didn't grow up with you - she doesn't understand your nuances.  And You have to be willing to take a step back and see where your habits may seem offensive, as will she.  There's a huge chasm in between "You didn't do anything wrong" and "You've done lots of things right" - we need to build bridges across that chasm, one at a time, till a true loving relationship is there and can withstand everyone's various moods and differences.

But start with something EASY to solve. Something you can work together on.  Maybe some plans for your son's bday. Call her up "We'd like to take you guys to dinner to celebrate his birthday, but I don't want to interfere with any plans you might be making or he might already have - can you suggest any dates that would work?  I was thinking xx yy zz".  It will go a LONG way for her to see that you respect that she is FIRST in his life.  You're respecting her, acknowledging that SHE is the Queen in his life now, and including her as a welcome asset. 

I also think it's CRITICAL to re-affirm that it IS their life, and you whole heartedly respect that.  It's not "Your Granddaughter" - it's "Her Daughter" and until she's POSITIVE that you respect that that comes first, there will always be tension. "I'd like to get a new summer outfit for your daughter - but I'm never sure what you like her to wear - can we go pick something out and I'll pay?"

I think people are only spiteful when they're hurt and/or threatened.  As the "older / wiser" woman it's our job to toss a bone, and WORK ON making peace and a loving environment for our grandbabies.  Our children's spouse is not someone that we will ever win against in a battle of "who loves ya more" - so we have to love our children enough to let go, and love their spouse enough to hold on.

We all say and do things that are hurtful.  We seldom mean to.  Working to peace is well worth the journey.

Best of luck!  Don't give up - that "other woman" is someone your child thinks is the BEST person in the world - there's got to be SOMETHING of value in them! :-)  Try to see her(him) through your child's eyes - it might help.

PFORTE,  I love what you have said here.  i don't know that having a "chat" works well for everyone.  It certainly didn't help me much with my inlaws, but in other relationships it has helped me to talk openly when things feel bad.  But what I really love about what you have said is that it demonstrates respect for a DIL's role and place in her husband's life, rather than trying to compete with that position.   And it shows  an understanding that her ways and upbringing are different but you can still respect that.  I agree that people only feel spiteful or angry when they feel hurt and it's something we all need to remember.  Perhaps my MIL insulted me and competed with me because she was worried that her relationship with her son was threatened by my presence.  Ironically, her relationship with her son was never threatened by my presence, but it was damaged because her son was  angry with her about her behavior toward me.

[PFORTE]

Thanks Confused!  I think it's hard for everyone to bridge that gap from child to adult - and some resist more than others.  Mental health problems are a different set of issues altogether - thankfully we haven't had to deal with that on a lasting basis!

Not sure if I'm allowed to post this link here.  If not, go to Youtube and listen to the song "Daughters" by John Mayer.  I think there's a lot of wisdom in the lyrics;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZLbUIa7exE

[Pen]

BTW,  the very worst FB story:

GS nbr2 was turning3.  DH and I got invited over on his birthday to celebrate:) DIL calls the morning of and asks if I can pick up cake and decor.  i say cool and bring over the party essentials. 

Soon after we arrive, it is apparent that it will only be us 2 and DH/DIL w/ GKs. I ask where everyone else is and am told they couldn't make it.  Nice!

The next Monday I get FB news feed of the "real" party that excluded me and DH but included everyone else.....yup, poke in da eye!!!!

FL, that would have been  my last straw too. How thoughtless of them. I hope you didn't purchase enough party goodies for a crowd -it would have been tempting to send them a bill.

I'm not on FB because I know I couldn't handle it. DH is on it & it doesn't bother him when DS/DIL post glowing comments about fun w/her FOO & nothing about us. DH has learned to not tell me about things that might hurt my feelings, but I have friends who innocently mention things they see ("So DS is going overseas?" when he hadn't mentioned it to me.) To quote Carly Simon, "I haven't got time for the pain."  My friends assume everyone's on FB so I do miss out on lots of info & invites, but so far the world hasn't come to an end, lol. I figure I've saved a chunk of change on shower/b-day/anniversary/grad gifts 

[Lillycache]

BTW,  the very worst FB story:

GS nbr2 was turning3.  DH and I got invited over on his birthday to celebrate:) DIL calls the morning of and asks if I can pick up cake and decor.  i say cool and bring over the party essentials. 

Soon after we arrive, it is apparent that it will only be us 2 and DH/DIL w/ GKs. I ask where everyone else is and am told they couldn't make it.  Nice!

The next Monday I get FB news feed of the "real" party that excluded me and DH but included everyone else.....yup, poke in da eye!!!!

OMG!!!  DO we have the same DIL?   That very same thing happened to me and DH... only she didn't ask us to stop and buy the cake.  BUT she had her family and friends at the "real Party"  and a DH and I were invited over just by ourselves the next week..  So we were excluded from the "Real Party"   Now I refuse to go to any party.   If DS wants the kids to see me on their birthdays, he brings them over.  If not.. Saves me a gift.  Or I save the gift for Christmas.  I refuse to mail them.  I like to see the kids open the presents I buy.

[shiny]

Lillycache,
I've been re-thinking my stance on sending presents via mail to the GKs. They are in different households, ages two to sixteen, and I don't hear a word from the older GKs -- much less the parents. DH and I have always had close relationships with these kids and they know we love them; however, I, too, just like to see the expressions on their faces!
I don't give to get thanks, but because I love them. I do believe it is super rude not to acknowledge someone who makes an effort to think of you.
My AC were raised to respond with a phone call plus a written thank you to their grandparents for gifts. Maybe they are just resentful about that and now paying me back, ha! DH and I earnestly tried to teach them manners though.

Pen, I'm in the same boat with you! I don't do "Nosebook" (FB) for the same reason -- to minimize my pain.
I recently heard from someone (who is only an acquaintance of DIL) about how she sees pics of my precious GC on FB all the time. Yet DIL won't take the time to email me any pics or any details about the little one. Yeah, it really hurts so I stay away from FB. Otherwise I would see GC with the other GPs all the time, and we see her infrequently...
I'm tired of the hurt, resentment, jealousy, envy, and the all rest that could descend quickly on me if I went to FB because of an insensitive DIL.
Love that quote, because at my age, I don't have time for pain either! It's ticking by in a hurry!

[Lillycache]

Personally, I really love Facebook... BUT I don't use it as a communications tool  for family.  I have friended some family members, but we never ever use the news feed or timelines to communicate personal things.  If we do communicate, it's in private message.   To me facebook is a great entertainment tool.  I have "liked" hundreds of pages that pertain to my interests.  Politics, travel, cooking, animals, and several fan clubs to a singing group I am particularly fond of.   I do get into some pretty stimulating debates with perfect strangers on these pages.. I share jokes and watch Youtube videos., and once in a while I'll post what I consider a profound thought on my status..   Facebook can be hurtful... or it can be fun.  It's what you make of it.