Is Etiquette Extinct? and other stuff

[Ruth]

Greetings everyone, I hope this is a good day for everyone here.  I don't come to the site as often as I used to but it will always still hold a special place in my life.  Maybe this is a good place and time for my rant, maybe not,  I don't know but I wonder if there are some of you who are as put out with this subject as I am.  I find it really, I mean really, hard to cope with these staccato forms of communication from my adult children and grandchildren.  I don't text, or use a cell phone, but I do email a lot and get messages left on my answering machine.  Almost across the board, there is no salutation or closure, just the blunt jist of the reason for the contact.  There is now and then the exception to this, when they are in a good mood maybe or just kicking back and want to talk, but almost all the time its just that jarring dozen words or so.  I don't understand this.  I can't imagine sending or leaving a message for anyone without taking a minute to say hello and how are you, be it the maytag repairman, the girl who checks out my groceries, or my closest friend, it would be unthinkable for me to leave a blunt unembellished message or request for something.  But my adult children have this modem of communication with me on a regular basis, even knowing the manner that I communicate and have always communicated with them, this is the way they send and leave messages for me.  My grandchildren do it also to some degree but not as badly. 

And also in closing, I recently read this quote in one of Luise's messages and I have thought about it for days:

Adult Children remember when we were there for them day and night...and rightly so because they wouldn't have survived otherwise. Their every move was something we accommodated to...setting ourselves aside. Unfortunately, that's not a template for a lifetime relationship and some of them resent that

sorry I'm sure I should have edited that in a different way and please feel free to rearrange it, but I thought this was one of the most profound things I've ever read on this forum as to the real reason, a valid explanation, of why...why many of us have adult children who just keep taking and taking and taking and seem to give so little back.  Thank you for giving me this food for thought.  It seems there are many adult children who don't see a cut off point between childhood and adulthood whereby they are no longer entitled to carte blanche demands on their parents life and resources. 

[Pooh]

Hi Ruth!  I'm not making excuses for them, as I too believe manners are going by the wayside, but I think that maybe you answered your own problem without even knowing it.  Now, this is just speculation and opinion on my part, but I do think that the technological world of texting and social media is creating a "short hand" type of communication style.  Texts are made to be short, simple and to the point and I think that is leading to short communication period from people.  Also, the majority of my posts on Facebook from people are also short and sweet.  Twitter is one line messages straight to their point.  I know there are exceptions and some still write books, but for the most part, this is what I'm seeing.

I'm used to writing novels.  I find many short sentences people post or send me very blunt and unfeeling, but yet I realize that maybe that wasn't their intention but just being so short, you can't explain much.  I think I write novels because I'm used to communicating with letters and long emails, and technology is hard on me too.  I write huge Facebook posts as well, because if I'm telling something or talking about a hot issue, I feel I need to make sure that I'm not sounding know-it-all and blunt.  I'm sure many of my friends just skim them over because they are so long.....ha ha. 

So just my thoughts, but it could just be that is the communication style they are becoming used to?

[Ruth]

thanks Pooh   - for taking the time to ....write!  and yes I do think it is cultural and the norm to many people to write skeleton communications, but I don't think I'm ever going to be able to read it without having my insides jarred and feeling like the person is out of sorts with me for something.  I pad all my communications I guess, I'm always trying to trouble shoot and keep from being offensive and I don't have a strong self esteem, or self confidence, which lends itself to any kind of daring communication.  I suffer when I go out on a limb.  I suppose I'm a dinosaur.  Nevertheless, I think we've slipped a notch in human relations with this abbreviated form of writing and reading and speaking. 

[Pooh]

I do too Ruth.  I truly do think the art of communication, in speaking and writing is becoming lost.

[luise.volta]

Hi Ruth, Nice to hear from you! How've you been? 

We can notice these cultural changes but we don't have to like them. On my counseling Website, www.MomResponds.com, people often ask their questions in the texting vernacular they are used to...(crippled by?) It's like another language to me, at age 86, and I have to decipher it to be able to respond. Some kind of inner ASAP seems to be contained in it...a miserliness of Spirit.

I blows my mind that texting is seen as an improvement over Voicemail. To me, that's a commentary on the demise of social intimacy. Why in the world would a few cryptic abbreviations be chosen over the voice of a loved one? Why indeed...

[Ruth]

It is so nice to be with you all again, Luise.  Thank you for asking.  I am well and don't have much updating to do except to say that I thankful to not be so preoccupied with the grown children.  As far as their behavior, nothing has changed very much but I do not devote very much of my thoughts to them as I used to.  And I think I just don't internalize it or keep their behavior connected to who I am any more.  I don't have to like it, but I don't have to allow it to demoralize me or take down the quality of my life.  It did take me a long time to get to the place that it isn't wearing me down so much, but I am thankful to get a little peace of mind these days, it was hard won. 

[luise.volta]

CONGRATULATIONS! YIPPEE-YAY! 

[Beth 2011]

Way to go Ruth!!!  Another Champion!! 

[freespirit]

Hello Ruth,

Oh yes, I hear you.

I remember when I was around 12. I received a monthly children's magazine, where ads from children, all over the world, were seeking pen-pals. I loved that! I had pen-pals from China to Alaska. I remember most of them taking special care to write on pretty stationary, or if they didn't have any, they made a special effort to write with their finest penmanship. Sometimes they drew little pictures, or just lay a pressed flower in between the pages. Our children and grandchildren are missing out on this wonderful experience.

When on vacation with my 7 yr.old granddaughter we went into a beautiful old-fashioned stationary store. They had rows of wax seal stamps for envelopes. I explained to her what they were for. But first I had to explain that people wrote letters, instead of emailing or sending sms, and sent them by mail. I told her about my experience as a child, and she confirmed dreamily that she would love to do that.  Well, I plan to give her one of those seals for Christmas. Then I will purchase pretty stationary and cards, a special ink fountain pen, and maybe she'll discover the thrill of writing and be happy to correspond with me.

http://www.nostalgicimpressions.com/Wax_Seals_Stamps_s/2.htm

I think we have to explain and teach our grandchildren, what our own children are neglecting to do. We can't change our adult children, but maybe the grands will think some of the old ways had something magical about them.

Remember writing thank you notes? Or if we were in a hospital, getting those get well cards? I didn't get one card while there. I got emails, but that was it. Who knows; maybe that tradition will come back with the next generation. I hope so.

It was nice pondering this with you, Ruth....and just for tradition I will sign off,
With friendly regards,
Freespirit

[Stilllearning]

Why stop at the fountain pen?  For hundreds of years we have advanced in technology and for every older generation there has been a lament about the loss of some very worthwhile skill.  I think it is important to try to teach our children the old ways (I still sew on a treadle sewing machine and keep a hurricane lamp around for emergencies) but requiring them to use the old tools would be like someone requiring that you use a chalkboard for your grocery list.  Let's face it, snail mail is going away.  I just appreciate it if they let me know that they got whatever I sent them.  They can call, text or email me and I am happy!  Besides, once you adjust your expectations you will be happier.  I like happier!

[Pen]

It's gratifying to see that not all young people are moving away from the old ways. In many "hipster" neighborhoods and you can find specialty shops that sell beautiful handmade paper and fine writing implements. Websites abound selling similar items. A lot of city-dwelling young people are raising chickens, keeping bees, and making things by hand. There's a bit of a movement that way apparently. Perhaps people are sick of the hassle of being dependent on so much technology and having to deal with anonymous corporations. I know I am!

[Ruth]

Thanks everyone for your ideas.  I share in the 'pen pal nostalgia', actually forums are also a bit like that and maybe that was a draw for me.  We are people who are willing and able to write,  from my observations over the years.  And Still Learning, I am also happy just to get the communication, it isn't that the email bothers me per se, its the way they write.  They are blunt without the pleasantries that I think couch our messages in that cocoon of warmth and caring.  I'm sure they wouldn't even respond to a job lead in that way -  sending a note without any dear so and so:   'look at this resume and phone me for an interview'.   Well, if this were the biggest problem I had in my life I would be home free! 

[herbalescapes]

yeah, it's extinct.  or getting there.  and it's creeping into the work place, too.  though maybe there is hope.  I know some businesses have started a course for new employees to explain etiquette - talking on the phone politely, using addresses and conclusions even in email, etc. - so maybe we could see a return.  as irritating as it is, in your personal life you may just want to chalk it up to that's the way things are done these days.  you certainly don't want them to stop communicating entirely.  it's like most of parenting - pick your battles.  but there lack of etiquette doesn't mean you have to stoop to their level.  maybe someday they'll remember your example and adopt it.  good luck. 

[Stilllearning]

Herbal, you should take comfort in the fact that when they reach our age they will be complaining about the manners of the younger generation too.  Once upon a time the sight of a woman's ankle was enough to whisper about for weeks.  Chances are that at some point in time your grandparents thought you were uppity, sassy or ill mannered....all code words for a loss of etiquette.  I am just glad I won't have to deal with their children (as parents).  Next generation does not have much more skin they can expose LOL!  I really worry about them deciding that all of their tats and piercings should be exposed!   

[Pen]

The only thing more frightening than aging is aging with tattoos and piercings, lol. When all those tats start puckering and sliding, there will be a lot of regret, IMO.