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Doing the internal inventory please help

Started by bettylou, May 10, 2010, 11:09:02 AM

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MagicGram

Quote from: Carmexx on May 10, 2010, 06:58:55 PM
Do you think it would be wise to have BettyLou confess everything or apologize for her bad behavior and allow DIL to ask anything she wants and own up to her bad behavior and admit that what she did was with a bad intention once DIL asks about it?

No. One does not apologize with the expectation of getting something in return.  One apologizes because one is sorry for hurting someone else.   If the other wishes to apologize in return, that's lovely.  But if you expect anything to come of an apology, including forgiveness, your apology is self serving.  You apologize to help your victim heal.  You apologize to clean up the mess you made.  And to correct falsehoods you've sent out into the world that then grow and take on a life of their own.  Apologies are about your burden of guilt...not about anyone else's.  They are either freely given without expectation of reward or they are worthless.

An insincere apology or a manipulative on with strings attached (ok, I've said I'm sorry and now what do you have to say....aren't you sorry too?), well those types of apologies can make things worse.

elsieshaye

I think it's good that you can look at yourself in such a clear-eyed way and list the things you did wrong.  However, please realize that just because you are willing to admit what you did, does not mean that everything will be better now.   You were extremely abusive to your DIL (and by extension to your DS), and she may simply not trust you anymore or want to have anything to do with you.  Nobody is obligated to put up with abuse, no matter who the abuser is.   I would be extremely disappointed in your DS if he allowed you to continue abusing his wife, and so I do understand why you haven't seen him either.

My advice to you, and what I would want you to do if I were your DIL, is to focus on your therapy and getting a handle on your negative behaviors.  I would not want contact with you until you had been in therapy for a good long while, because what often happens is that people feel remorse because their behaviors have led them to negative consequences.  Then they start to do something to turn themselves around, and then they backslide as soon as the person they have hurt allows them back.  Right now, not seeing your DIL, DS and GCs is the least of your problems, and if the only reason you are doing this is to win them back, you have to let that idea go for now, and get a good solid foundation of healthiness established first.

I won't lie to you:  it would not be enough for me that you admitted your wrongs and were about to start counseling.  I would wish you well and hope that the counseling brought you peace and health, but I would not allow you into my life until you had built up a reliable track record of changed behavior, and then only very cautiously.  You may feel that this is "throwing you away," but from the standpoint of your DIL and DS, it's simple self-care and self preservation.
This too shall pass.  All is well.

brandynd

Okay.  Wow.  I just posted on your other thread and I'm shocked and saddened by the fact that I was completely right.  Bettlylou, I'm going to share a little something with you from someone who has been the victim of a MIL just like you.  For your own good, knock it off.  There is a reason that so many DIL's have issues with their mother in laws, and it is because of behavior like this.  How can you break someone down over and over and over again, and then wonder why they don't spend time with you?  I would have bailed on you too, just to avoid feeling like I was inadequate.  My God, you've done everything in your power to make her feel like she was unworthy of your love.  She probably feels about an inch and a half tall right now.

Right now what you need is a good dose of tough love, and here it is.  Your son is not going to want to deal with you for quite some time, and quite frankly, I can't blame him.  Look what you have done to his wife.  This is the woman he CHOSE to spend the rest of his life with, and you haven't even treated her like a human being.  You'll be lucky if you get to remain in contact with your GS, and you have nobody to blame but yourself.  I'm sorry, this sounds so mean, but for somebody who has been put through hell by their MIL I find this behavior disgusting.  I hope for your sake that you really are pursuing counseling.  If you don't, when your daughter gets married, this whole cycle will repeat itself.

Carmexx

Quote from: MagicGram on May 10, 2010, 07:07:14 PM
Quote from: Carmexx on May 10, 2010, 06:58:55 PM
Do you think it would be wise to have BettyLou confess everything or apologize for her bad behavior and allow DIL to ask anything she wants and own up to her bad behavior and admit that what she did was with a bad intention once DIL asks about it?

No. One does not apologize with the expectation of getting something in return.  One apologizes because one is sorry for hurting someone else.   If the other wishes to apologize in return, that's lovely.  But if you expect anything to come of an apology, including forgiveness, your apology is self serving.  You apologize to help your victim heal.  You apologize to clean up the mess you made.  And to correct falsehoods you've sent out into the world that then grow and take on a life of their own.  Apologies are about your burden of guilt...not about anyone else's.  They are either freely given without expectation of reward or they are worthless.

An insincere apology or a manipulative on with strings attached (ok, I've said I'm sorry and now what do you have to say....aren't you sorry too?), well those types of apologies can make things worse.

Okay, I didn't make myself clear. I didn't mean that she should be expecting an apology. What I meant was that if she goes through and gives a list of all the bad things she did, I don't know if that will really bring peace to the relationship. If DIL and MIL ever do reconcile, DIL will remember the whole laundry list of transgressions and will be able to pull them up at a moment's notice if there is ever another conflict.

Let me give you an example: my MIL has done plenty of things to me, much of it in a passive agressive way. I always suspected it, but never had it confirmed until one day she asked me forgiveness because she had ignored my b-day (while living in my house and the very first birthday I had after I married my husband to boot!) because she had been jealous of something that had happened the day before my b-day. We both cried and I did forgive her, but plenty of things have happened since then. Right now we are on good terms, but whenever something happens between the two of us, I always remember that one instance that she listed. I almost think that if she had apologized for not being nice and would not have made it any more specific (and completely have changed her actions, of course), it would have been better for me.

Perhaps if she would have said, "I'm sorry, I know I've been mean and unfair to you. Please forgive me. I'm willing to answer any questions you have of me and confirm for you whether you were right that time you suspected I was being passive agressive," if that would have allowed me to ask and feel validated without her bringing up the one thing that was itching her conscience and having her tell me so that she could feel better. It certainly wasn't what I was focused on at the time.

luise.volta

May 10, 2010, 08:28:28 PM #19 Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 08:33:29 PM by luise.volta
I hope everyone has had their say about this by tomorrow because I am going to close this topic in the morning. Bettylou has been painfully honest so have we. She is going for counseling and I honestly believe it's time to step back and let the professionals deal with the complexities and for you, BL, to rely on that process.

There's been a lot of drama and now it's time for the work to begin. It will take your full focus and possibly a long time. Lots of damage has been done and lots of "pathology". for lack of a better word, has been present.

We were here for you and did what we could to help you get it up to the surface. Beyond that, I don't think we can do anything but complicate it and possibly muddy the waters. Please turn toward the one-on-one help you have enlisted and need so badly. I am not going to publish further posts from you after tonight for the reasons stated above. Sending love...
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

Postscript

My only thought on this is that it's going to take a lot of time.  What's more is that I imagine from your description of previous behavior and need for attention, that when you start to make changes you are going to expect some reward or recognition of those changes especially initially. 

Don't be surprised and especially don't be discouraged if your initial efforts are rebuffed or ignored, most especially don't revert.  You have hurt people deeply and for a long time, they are not going to accept you have changed overnight.

You are facing a long hard road Bettylou, but it's a path to a better life and better relationships.  My advice is to take it on the chin and soldier on because in the long run, it will be worth it.  This is not an overnight fix, some of the relationships may never, ever be repaired.

Best wishes to you

cremebrulee

Quote from: Carmexx on May 10, 2010, 06:58:55 PM
Do you think it would be wise to have BettyLou confess everything or apologize for her bad behavior and allow DIL to ask anything she wants and own up to her bad behavior and admit that what she did was with a bad intention once DIL asks about it?

I think it would be wise, if Betty Lou, after doing theropy for a long time, ask the DIL to come with her for a visit or two...if her counselor thinks it would be a good idea....

Betty Lou, there will be a lot of advice given here, good advice, please don't misunderstand...however, I would do only what your counselor advises you to do and when she thinks it is appropriate to do so...

This is going to take a lot of hard work on your part...it isn't easy to change patterns we've dealt with most of our lives....this goes way back to your childhood, it was learned behavior to get attention...plus, I'm guessing your happiest when others are hurting...makes you feel like your in control, which may give you your power?  I don't know...however, I'm proud of you for taking the first step at change...but, it's going to take a long time, for you to understand why your like this, and then change...takes years....so, please don't be discouraged by any negative responses you get....it's only natural, people do not want to be around negative...they gravitate towards positive...

I will pray for you...in hopes that your do-diligence on this lasts...

Creme

RedRose

I just have 1 thing to say....
Not all MIL's are like BettyLou...
and...Not all DIL's are like BettyLou

Carmexx

Quote from: cremebrulee on May 11, 2010, 04:19:29 AM
Quote from: Carmexx on May 10, 2010, 06:58:55 PM
Do you think it would be wise to have BettyLou confess everything or apologize for her bad behavior and allow DIL to ask anything she wants and own up to her bad behavior and admit that what she did was with a bad intention once DIL asks about it?

I think it would be wise, if Betty Lou, after doing theropy for a long time, ask the DIL to come with her for a visit or two...if her counselor thinks it would be a good idea....

Betty Lou, there will be a lot of advice given here, good advice, please don't misunderstand...however, I would do only what your counselor advises you to do and when she thinks it is appropriate to do so...

This is going to take a lot of hard work on your part...it isn't easy to change patterns we've dealt with most of our lives....this goes way back to your childhood, it was learned behavior to get attention...plus, I'm guessing your happiest when others are hurting...makes you feel like your in control, which may give you your power?  I don't know...however, I'm proud of you for taking the first step at change...but, it's going to take a long time, for you to understand why your like this, and then change...takes years....so, please don't be discouraged by any negative responses you get....it's only natural, people do not want to be around negative...they gravitate towards positive...

I will pray for you...in hopes that your do-diligence on this lasts...

Creme

This is exactly right. What I was worried about is that she would grab the phone in a tizzy and ask forgiveness after confessing all her wrong doings and just make everything worse. I agree that the right thing to do is talk everything out with a counselor who will give professional advice and have her do things in a calm, well-thought out way.

Quote from: RedRose on May 11, 2010, 05:09:00 AM
I just have 1 thing to say....
Not all MIL's are like BettyLou...
and...Not all DIL's are like BettyLou

Agreed!

doormat

Quote from: RedRose on May 11, 2010, 05:09:00 AM
I just have 1 thing to say....
Not all MIL's are like BettyLou...
and...Not all DIL's are like BettyLou

Took the words right out of my mouth.

I've already given my thoughts on another one of BL's threads.  Honestly, this whole thing gives me a bad vibe.  I'm out.

cremebrulee

Yanno, I don't mean to be  a wise you know what...
but, shouldn't we all realize by now, so that we don't have to keep reminding each other, or writing it...that we all realize, it's a given that all mil's and dil's are not alike? 
I mean, isn't that what we all believe?  I think sometimes, and maybe I'm wrong, that we all take things way to literally...

so if someone write something about they're mil or dil from now on, can't we agree, that we certainly by now, all know that all dil's and mil's are not alike?  Isn't that common sense? 

I guess what I'm asking you is, do you believe there are really people out there who do believe MIL's and all DIL's are alike?  Is that why we are constantly saying this....

I'm just curious...but also asking, are we that sensitive? 

Please advise me?

Creme

RedRose

Well...Creme...I don't know which one Betty is at all ...  my opinion

And, she was getting a lot of negative angry posts here ... I felt it needed to be clarified.

MagicGram

Quote from: cremebrulee on May 11, 2010, 06:15:17 AM
Yanno, I don't mean to be  a wise you know what...
but, shouldn't we all realize by now, so that we don't have to keep reminding each other, or writing it...that we all realize, it's a given that all mil's and dil's are not alike? 
I mean, isn't that what we all believe?  I think sometimes, and maybe I'm wrong, that we all take things way to literally...

so if someone write something about they're mil or dil from now on, can't we agree, that we certainly by now, all know that all dil's and mil's are not alike?  Isn't that common sense? 

I guess what I'm asking you is, do you believe there are really people out there who do believe MIL's and all DIL's are alike?  Is that why we are constantly saying this....

I'm just curious...but also asking, are we that sensitive? 

Please advise me?

Creme

Yes, there is at least one poster here who recently stirred up a lot trouble by posting on another site, but doesn't seem to be posting here anymore, who often was confused on this issue of individuality.  She firmly believed that all DILs should be whipped for all the pain they cause MILs.  She was constantly lumping all DILs together and usually spoke for all MILs using the word 'we' instead of 'I'.   All MILs were one, all DILs were alike and conflict was inevitable because of the new horrible generation of girls.  I didn't join earlier because ever rebuked her when she spewed her hatred, just petted her when she collapsed in self pity.  I figured this was a hate site, but things have been more even and reasonable lately.  And more helpful. 

But I think in some women DIL and MIL alike, the resistance to taking any responsibility for the problem is so strong, they absolve not only themselves of wrongdoing but their whole generation.  And to them all MILs are one way and all DILs are another.

ESmom

Wow!
BL you are making my MIL look like a saint!
You would have been better off giving her nothing at those showers than what you did.
I want to know who in the world your DIL reminds you of?
Your mother? Your father? Your Gma?
Address your issues and anger with them and take the target off your DIl's back.
Reminder..even if you get help and you become the best MIL to your daughter's spouse..it wont erase what you have done.
You are lucky to see your GS at all.

cremebrulee

May 11, 2010, 08:16:58 AM #29 Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 08:18:29 AM by cremebrulee
Quote from: ESmom on May 11, 2010, 08:00:43 AM
Wow!
BL you are making my MIL look like a saint!
You would have been better off giving her nothing at those showers than what you did.
I want to know who in the world your DIL reminds you of?
Your mother? Your father? Your Gma?
Address your issues and anger with them and take the target off your DIl's back.
Reminder..even if you get help and you become the best MIL to your daughter's spouse..it wont erase what you have done.
You are lucky to see your GS at all.

No you can never go back and erase what you have done, however, what you can do, i prove that you are sorry, you made a mistake and your doing all you can to atone for those mistakes, and I believe BettyLou is on the right track...the desire is there to do so...
no one here can predict what will happen and what will be felt, especially if Betty Lou's desire is to relieve the pain she has caused, and in doing so, may prove that she is sorry and now a better person as a wife, mother, and mother in law...you never know what tomorrow brings, and the strength & power of human desire to do right not to mention the power of love?

I believe.