Can you give a little advice to a DIL?

[Monroe]

Sunshine - it's not that I think of people as possessions.  I think it should be easy for two women to love the same man - one as a wife, one as a mother.  Totally different facets - no competition - no need for possessiveness.  However, if the DIL thinks differently - and some do - then it doesn't work that way.

Some people are possessive and territorial.  If a wife is possessive and territorial of her husband, it does cut a lot of people out of his life. Yes, he has a choice to acquiesce (or not) to this possessiveness, and he is responsible for his own choices.  But if a wife is possessive and controlling, and the husband goes along with it, then in fact the husband's mother is pretty well cut off.  No, it shouldn't be that way.  But sometimes it is.  And one can blame the DIL - but one also has to say that the son could man up and refuse to submit to such control.  But sometimes love is blind.  At least he is in love.

By the way, the son and I are NOT estranged.  There are no conflicts.  He has simply disappeared, except for the occasional robotic interaction.  I will always love him - but I will not insert myself into his life when his wife has made it clear she has no interest in his family, and he is devoted to her to the point of nausea. 

[Monroe]

Sunshine -

Yes, it is a good thing when a spouse values his/her marriage above all else.  Fine.  But when that territorialism and possessiveness becomes controlling to the point of isolation, it is not good.  Many abusers (that is not our situation, however) are so "in love" and possessive that they isolate their spouses, and only years later does the abused spouse's family learn of all the abuse that went on.  Isolation is NOT good.  Possessiveness to the point of the spouse severing ties with family (absent big problems with family) is NOT good. 

My son IS established as a spouse and as an individual.  I am NOT worrying about "why this is or who is to blame".  It is what it is. I don't worry about it - I long ago accepted it.  Please don't attribute attitudes to me that I do not have. 

We have given them many chances - and I do not call her names.  Don't know where you got that idea. 

Maybe you have me mixed up with someone else???

[Pooh]

Hi sunshine.  I don't see where anyone welcomed you, but if I missed it, I apologize.  Please take a moment to read the rules under "Open Me First" that explains how our forum runs and the rules and such....

Maybe, when you are ready, you will share what brought you to the forum?  You will find our diverse membership, made up of all kinds of titles, are extremely open minded individuals.   It's much easier to take advice from someone when they are willing to share their personal experiences first.

As some one that is walking in the same shoes as Monroe, I can assure you that there are some people that don't have to do anything wrong, intentionally or unintentionally, and can still have problems with another person.  It doesn't matter what title that is.  A DIL can be wonderful and have a difficult MIL that makes her life hard.  Or an MIL can have a DIL that is the difficult person.  Or it can be a DD, DS, DH...etc.  Sometimes, not matter what you do or don't do, the other person will find fault.

[Stilllearning]

Pooh, I think you hit that nail on the head!!!  Thank you once again for your wonderful insights and calming manner. 

[luise.volta]

I am interested in how many points of view this discussion has evidenced. It was started in November of last year, yet it is still of interest. I also want to remind everyone that most of the time when you feel the need to use bold print or caps, it's a good time to step back a bit and take a deep breath. No one is right or wrong here.

And Sunshine, I respectfully ask you to follow through with what Pooh asked you to do, and to not post further until you are sure WWU is a fit. You are very welcome here if you feel that you are comfortable with our Forum Agreement.

[herbalescapes]

I don't remember this post from when it first was posted.  Going back to the original situation, I think I can sympathize with the MIL a little bit (tho, not the part about giving unequal gifts to GC and step-GC).  Her DS got married, she formed a close relationship with her DIL and then there was a divorce.  From a practical matter, it usually behooves the GPs to keep on good terms with their ex-DIL/SIL just in order to keep in touch with the GK as much as possible.  First marriages end in divorce around 50% of the time and second ones end in divorce around 70% of the time.  I hope the OP beats the odds here, but MIL has a reason to be wary of forming a close bond with her new DIL as well as her step GC.  I'm sure there are people on this site who have experienced welcoming a step GC or step child into their hearts, only to be left out in the cold after a divorce.  Even if you are wary of forming that bond, tho, there is no excuse for showing favoritism to your blood relations over your step relations when they are underage and living in the same household. 

As long as we are all civil to each other, I don't feel there's much to complain about.  Many people are hurt when a relative - blood or in-law - doesn't care to form a closer bond.  It comes down to those unmet expectations.  Come to an acknowledgement that although you are hurt, the other person didn't do anything wrong.  Accept that they are different and you can't change them.  I have a BIL who is outgoing and friendly.  If anyone rebuffs him, he views it as their loss and moves on.  No grudges held.  I wish I could achieve that.

Peachy, I hope things are going well for you and your husband.  As long as he is in your corner, your MIL can give you all the grief in the world and it really is just background noise.

[Pooh]

Thanks for filling us in some.  Sorry you have long standing issues with your MIL.  I understand.  I have got to be on both sides myself.  I had a very hard to deal with MIL in my first marriage of 21 years.  Now I have a wonderful MIL with the 2nd marriage.  I also have 2 DILS.  One is a joy and easy to get along with and the other has shut us out of their lives and was a very difficult person.

I also agree with you that the person has to want to change.  Many of our problems here, with whatever the title, is that one side is willing to change and compromise, the other is not.  That is where the relationship comes to a standstill or non-existent for most of us.  I like to think of myself as a willow tree.  I can bend and bend and bend, but at some point, even I have a breaking point.

[Pooh]

I'll never understand it.  I guess I liken it to my two best friends.  They are totally opposite in nature and personality, but each have great points.  I love them both, even though one is easier to get along with.  It takes some work to get along with the other one, simply because she is just a more difficult person (stubborn, hot-headed, likes drama), but they are both good people. And the other is just a go-with-the-flow type person and nothing rattles her.

So even though they are so different, we all get along because we accept our differences and overlook each other's flaws.  My difficult MIL would never except that we were different people and it was her mission to mold me into something I wasn't.  Her Son could do no wrong....ever.  If he was to rob a bank, she would have come up with some excuse of how it wasn't his fault.  So she constantly told me I needed to lighten up on him.  Yes, you are right.....it's ok that he will not work and lay on the couch all day watching television while I work two jobs and take care of two children....whatever was I thinking.

[Pen]

I too had a less than welcoming MIL the first time around. My dad's mom was horrid to my mom, so I knew first hand and from close observation how not to treat a DIL. My second MIL could have used our different belief systems to ostracize me but instead she treated me so well I honestly believed she respected and loved me. Whether or not she really did I'll never know. I figured I'd follow 2nd MIL's example and accept whomever my DS married.

Well, my DIL and her FOO hate us (nothing we've done or said according to DIL, just who we are), which makes things tense and strange in our relationship with DS. It's sad, we miss him heaps, but all we can do is move on. I will likely never have a satisfying answer as to why some people get to make choices that affect others so deeply, and why some of us are left with no options other than heading off into the sunset.

[peachykeen]

Wow, so many replies!!  Thank you all for the advice and your thoughts.  I have put a lot of thought into everything over the last few months, and have more or less decided to live my life as I would, if that involves MIL fine, and if not I'm not really missing out on much.  I don't remember if I said in the original post, but both my family and my dh's family live a good distance from us.  Vacations and holiday travel are split between my family and his.  We went to MIL's for a visit this spring and things were civil and polite, I can't ask for much more than that.  I did overhear a telephone conversation she had while we were there - through no sneakiness or snooping, I was sitting on the front porch with coffee watching the kids play and she was just inside the window...I think she may have had me overhear on purpose.  Anyway, she was saying that it must be my fault that we didn't visit more often, and how dare I keep her son away from her, and that she was just waiting for either he or I to say SOMETHING (?) so that she could go off on us.  While it made my blood boil, I didn't say anything to her or to my dh about it, and finished the trip respectfully and politely.

My dh is a grown man.  Even before I knew him, he visited her only once or twice a year.  He knows he's more than welcome to go down to see her any time he wants to - just as I'll go see my family if I want to, whether he can or wants to come or not.  I never try to influence him one way or the other, but if he wants to go and I have something in conflict I have no problem bowing out.  If he chooses not to go that's his choice.  But in her eyes it's my fault....I guess there's nothing I can do about that.

Gifting hasn't changed....maybe it's not so in your face to my kids.  She sends the over the top gifts and loads of cash to dh's kids at their mom's house with instructions to shhhh, it's a secret.  Of course, the kids blab so we end up finding out about it.  We have stopped sending money, stopped shortly after my original post.  Instead, when we to visit I fill his grandma's freezer and pantry for her.

I'm quite happy in my life.  My husband and I are very much enjoying the life we've built and continue to build together.  I've more or less adopted the attitude that since I'm not considered the DIL I have no obligation to fulfill the DIL duties - my dh's ex wife is her DIL as far as she's concerned, so she can do the DIL things.  In some ways it makes my life a lot easier that she feels and acts the way that she does, because I don't have to really deal with her at all, save the time or two a year we see her.  No phone calls or kid updates, no helping out as I would happily help out my MIL.  I get to focus on my life and my family, and am happy that way.  Dh acts and says he's very happy with how things are right now as well - he doesn't love the relationship his mom has with his ex but he can't change it, and is content with how things stand now.

[luise.volta]

Sounds to me like your are dealing extremely well. Sending love...

[freespirit]

"Anyway, she was saying that it must be my fault that we didn't visit more often, and how dare I keep her son away from her, and that she was just waiting for either he or I to say SOMETHING (?) so that she could go off on us."

If I would ever over hear a conversation like that,...my blood would boil too.  Hats off to you that you were able to keep your mouth shut. I'm sure that took a lot of control, but it was probably the wisest thing to do.

It seems to me there is a lot of hurt going around. There is a difference between feeling snubbed and reacting to that,...which apparently your DIL is doing, or being plain mean. If you look at the problem from a new perspective, maybe you have a chance to soften your DIL up. What if you visited her alone and simply laid everything out on the table. If you start with how you can understand her disappointment that her son divorced a DIL, who she really loved, but you can't understand, why she feels you are responsible for that; it may just help to confirm her feelings. Just tell her how you feel, and she will tell you how she feels, and either you get closer  - or not. If not; ...well then you haven't lost anything either.

On the other hand, if you are happy the way things are, then good for you. You are right, it releases you from any responsibilities when she may need help.

[Pooh]

I think you are dealing perfectly!  (and yes, you have a major sense of self control after hearing that).

[peachykeen]

Things are continuing to go relatively smoothly here. We are planning to spend the Christmas holiday at MIL's home this year. I'm afraid it's going to be a very long five days though. I've already started a list of things to do, to keep busy and pass the time there. Baking projects with the kids, crafty things, etc.  Strangely enough, I don't feel the anxiety that I usually do leading up to these visits. I think it's in large part because I just really don't care anymore. I don't really care if she likes me...I don't even really care if she's nice to me. I fully intend to arrive, be courteous, keep myself busy, and stay out of her way. I'm sure when she talks to all of her people she'll say that I was rude, but I don't really care about that either.

I honestly thinks she takes a fair amount of joy out of me trying to befriend her and getting to shoo me off. I guess maybe it's an ego boost or something to get to continually reject me?  Of course, when I don't try to make friends and play nice I'm rude or mean.  I can't win either way it seems.

My dh and I don't talk about the whole situation at all any more, mostly because we just don't waste any time or energy dealing with it. I remind him to call her every few weeks, and when her birthday rolls around I ask him if he'd like me to send flowers.  He and I, and the kids, have a lot of really good, exciting things going on in our lives, and they keep us very busy. She probably thinks I'm plotting against her, or trying to turn her son against her, but I'm not. I just simply gave up on caring about the whole mess.

[Pooh]

Sometimes, and this is just my opinion, I think people are so miserable in their own lives they want to drag everyone down with them.  Plus, they've griped about the situation to whomever will listen to them so much, they have to come up with things to make what they said true.  So be mean, critical, etc. and if they get a reaction, "See, I told you how they are!".  If they don't get a reaction, "See, I tried to be nice.  See how rude they are!"