Living with me is out of the question

[Smilesback@u]

I have a mss who is hardly working by choice and living out of his van by choice.  He gets irate with me because I harp on he should be getting a job, making something of himself, paying his parking tickets anything that has to do with living responsibly.  And he is sick of it!  Well so am I!  But 10 years from now if he is doing the same crapo, I would feel guilty if I didn't give it my best shot now.  If he has depression, which I suspect, I do not want to give up on him either.  That's why I am in conflict with him -- I don't want to be in this role of trying to rescue him, or being negative that he is not doing what he should be doing.  So after spending this weekend with him at oss' house celebrating dh birthday, I am so d.o.n.e. with feeling sorry for him and trying to figure out what he needs to do.  I will be here, light in the window, try to keep him from going down the tubes, but not going to save him from working for a living at all.  Feels right to me -- what do you think?

[luise.volta]

Is SS - step son? What is the M? I think you are right on track. His choice...his consequence.

[Doe]

It sounds like you've given it your best shot.  Maybe let DH take over if he wants to?

[Smilesback@u]

I have middle sweet son for mss.  I made it up    I got inspired by something luise just posted: 
You can only be your best self not someone else's. And however to the contrary it may seem, therein lies your happiness, being your best self while letting others find theirs.

I got what I needed right there!!!  Just needed some relief from this idea that I am expected to make it all better -- I can't, I keep trying and nothing changes.  He knows I care, he knows I love him, he knows I worry about him...he says he is living his own life and for me to stop trying to control his life.     It is what it is...yukky 

Well back to focusing on my own needs and what I can do in my life to make it a wonderful world...or at least try.   

[Smilesback@u]

Oh, and oss is other stepson -- maybe a bit confusing even for me   

[Begonia]

Smiles: Hugs to you....You say that you are done with "trying to figure out what he needs to do."  That is a key statement.  Yup, he needs to figure out his own path.  I remember my DS doing similar stuff and I felt so bad.  Until I found out he had a support network of friends who were keeping him entertained and in food.  I cut out feeling so sorry for him then. He made it through, now has a wonderful job and family...nevermind that he isn't speaking to me right now    but that is his problem.  Keep on staying strong!! 

[Smilesback@u]

Be - I love your humor, love it!  I am not hopeful for my son and glad it turned out good for yours.  I do think there is more to his being able to not work because of help from his friends than I know.  But he is so, personality-wise, acting abrasive that I really do not feel good literally after spending time with him.  We usually get through it in the end with more positive feelings, but it really does not feel good.  My mind is telling my heart what to do, and I am trying to follow, but it is hard.  At this point if he were not to talk to me, I might even prefer that, being careful what I wish for here.   

[Pen]

(((hugs))) to you, Smiles. It's rough. Please continue to take good care of yourself...think of it as a non-verbal example to MSS, if that helps.

If he were joyously living his life the way he chose, w/o the abrasive interactions w/you, would you feel better or is your sorrow mostly over his choice of lifestyle & his seemingly lost opportunities? I'n guessing you would want your DS to be happy above all else, even over being "successful" or safe & comfortable.. sounds like he's not a happy hippie

[Smilesback@u]

Oh yea, if he was happy I would be happy along with him!  Whenever he is mellow, I am grateful, pleased, connected again and blessed.  Maybe by getting off his case, he will be whatever he is, and I will feel detached so that it doesn't upset me.  He needs to feel his anger and solve it.  He has told me in the last year that he thinks about his life and gets mad.  I told him to use that energy for doing positive things in his life.  He came up with the plan to not have an apt so he reduces his bills.  Okkkkaaay, and he is doing more things that he likes to do, camping, gym workouts, walking the lake, trying new hobbies...okaaayyy, now what?  Still not settled as I think he wants a gf but who wants to live hand to mouth?  Who can see someone living like that as a potential mate?  He is in a dream world that you should love me for me, not for whether I have a good job.  Huh?? I told him if he is a bachelor and living this way okay, but if he wants a family someday, he has to show someone he can be depended on, cuz when times get tough you don't want to pile your kids and wife into the car and live at a campsite.  He said I don't even have a gf.  WHich is the heart of his problem I think...he is trying to meet women at the gym, at poker tournaments, hiking.  But he really should focus on the basics, a job, a place to live, a future savings.  He is a saver so that's going for him.  He is smart, and kind hearted, funny, but right now he has stress issues and irritable bowel syndrome kicks in if he doesn't watch out.  I get it, but I am sorry that he is living this way, and think he could do better.  I think he can do it for himself.  I just don't want to see him end up in jail for not paying parking tickets, having his car impounded, going to collections, and asking me to pay $$$$$.  How could I say No?  In a way I am trying to protect myself from a future misfortune with him.  I would hate to act like I don't even know him, turn him away from my door, not answer his phone calls for $$.  But that is where I am headed and it scares me.   

[Begonia]

Smiles:  You make me smile too when you say...you don't want to pile your kids and wife into the car and live at a campsite.If this isn't something I would say I don't know what is and you certainly don't want to live in your car with irritable bowel syndrome (sorry, Smiles, not to make fun, I know about ABS firsthand)..and camping.... ...I understand about all those emotions you are going through...lots of difficult stuff.  But you know, jail is not always the worst place: a place to sleep, meals.  Going to jail for parking tickets is way different from going to jail for horrible things.  You say he is smart and a saver...well this just doesn't fit the picture of a guy who will end up in jail. He might want you to think that, but....Don't let him control your mood.  Write down a couple of "just say no" responses, memorize them and then just repeat them instead of getting into any conversation with him about money.  "Can't talk about this now, the dishwasher just ran over," "Gosh, I love you but every extra cent went to the (plumber, caterer, pizza guy)...Son, I bet you can figure it out.  Hang in there, bye now."   I find that using lightness and ending the conversation is the best key to tough love.  And you do not have to turn him away, the hard part is to love him and tell him no.  He might turn away for awhile but he will know you love him no matter.   The best of wishes to you....

[Smilesback@u]

You made me snicker Be with camping without facilities when you need them     It really is okay for me to not turn away from him, and yet, I can still say no?  I liked your responses and so I made one, *I am putting every cent into retirement and have to say no to loaning you money.  I am sure you can figure out where you can get a job so you can pay your bills.*  How would it be if I say that after he gets a job and is working, if he still needs a loan, come talk to me?   

[Begonia]

Smiles: Love your response.  But, the door to loans needs to be shut, not revolving. As long as you say there is money available and he is a very smart man he will seize the opportunity like a Wall Street banker.  Who could blame him?  Nah, hold your ground. Repeat your response, print it out, hang it in the kitchen. If you have to give because you have a wonderful heart, buy him something for a reward when he gets his job, something like a gas card that can't be returned for cash. It sure is ok to say no. No does not mean no to love.  Hugs again.... 

[Smilesback@u]

Right Bee, thanks    I will keep a print out at my desk and grab it when he calls...and he will call!  I was looking at rents where he lives and they are high.  So I looked at buying a condo in foreclosure or short sale, and somehow making it where he can rent it to own.  Just not hurrying into anything because he does not have a job.  If I was him I would be frantic.   

[Monroe]

You say he is a saver -- but you also say he wants to borrow $$$??  If he is a saver, then he surely does not need to borrow your $$$. 

[Begonia]

Smiles: You wrote So I looked at buying a condo in foreclosure or short sale, and somehow making it where he can rent it to own.  Sorry to be nagging about this but that seems like another rescue.  He needs to figure it out and his pride will revive if he is not rescued.  Hold back, like you say.  Yes, as moms we are frantic, but if he were really frantic he would be changing his situation. Our value system is not always the value system of our AC...(this has been a very difficult thing for me to keep learning and learning and learning).  Hugs and peace.