Am I getting this right? You don't want to spend time with me -- is that it?

[Smilesback@u]

Am I getting this right?  Seems that when I visit my DS/DIL/GD, they have allocated time to spend and focus on GD.  When that time is completed, then it is time to focus on themselves.  I am delegated to babysit while GD sleep.  Don't want to, said so, having some grace about it, but they don't want to pay for a babysitter so that we can all go out together.  Is the message, we don't want to spend time with you?  Seriously?  Don't grownup sons want to spend time with their parents when they come for a visit?  Huh?  I think I am getting it, and don't want to get it.  If that's the case, why do I have to visit them?  I can GD and then leave after they go to bed.  What am I missing here?     Can't believe it, is it true?  You don't want to spend time with me?  Why not?  I came all this way to see you and your family and what?  You don't want to spend time with me, other than have me spend time with your children?  I think it is true, and can't believe it!   

[luise.volta]

My take - "Yup, your job was once to serve your family. That's still your job, take it or leave it. There is no "you" beyond that."

[Smilesback@u]

Wait, to serve the family is the only role I can have with my sons?  No, now that we are all adults, we can spend time together enjoying life as adults?  Then really there is no ME beyond the role of *mother* to them?  Really?  So where's that leave me if Mother says that she doesn't babysit, cook, clean, buy groceries when she visits -- she enjoys her time with everyone and then leaves before her bedtime.  That's it?  What if I say I am going to go home and go to bed, and instead DH and I sneak out to a movie or entertainment?  I think that's fine...if they are going to hang out at home, because they are not going to get a babysitter, and they obviously resent that I don't babysit so that THEY can go out, some quandry I find myself in.  Die to self, in order to make someone else happy?  Doesn't seem healthy to me.  Did I miss something?  Maybe I am the one who is not growing up here.  I need a bit more help to find my way. 

[luise.volta]

My take - They are the ones who set the stage and have categorized you until they decide to change, if they do. Whether you like it or not hasn't been taken into consideration. It's my guess, if that is true, that you will find peace when you get it's their choice and they have to right to decide. You won't be used after you choose not to be...by accepting what is so...at present. I learned that the hard way. I also doubt if there is an easy way. Sending love...

[Smilesback@u]

Thanks luise  -- I needed that...I will accept that this is their choice, their decision how to relate to me when I visit.  I will politely enjoy myself with them, and take my leave.  I will continue to defend my boundaries when needed, but basically I can leave when I want to, whether I disappoint them or not.  Ok, a deep breath, and a little more letting go today.  Little by little, it will get easier I think.  hugs to you 

[Pen]

Smiles, I feel your pain & bewilderment. It's hard to believe that grown ups of different generations can't enjoy each other's company, but some of us are in that situation w/our AC. I see other families who enjoy spending time together & I envy them. My DS claims to want to see us, says he & DIL will do stuff w/us if we invite them, but it rarely works out for one reason or another. I'm slowly getting the hint as well.

My visions of all of us, young & old, gathered together talking, laughing, joking around, reminiscing, sharing stories, etc. are just fantasies based on my FOO and my experiences with families of childhood friends. It never occurred to me that when my own kids grew up we wouldn't have the same experiences. When DIL announced on two separate occasions that she "hated old people" I had a feeling DH & I were soon headed for oblivion, lol.

All I can do is make my life the best it can be & take good care of myself. Maybe things will change, maybe not, but in the meantime I'll be living a wonderful, vital, interesting, meaningful life. It does get easier the longer I continue to practice self-compassion.

[Lillycache]

No... I think that for the most part, the young do not particularly want to spend time with the old.  They find us boring, stuffy, holding on to silly outdated stupid ideas and nothing we have to say or add is really worth much consideration.   Remember being young?  Remember how it felt when our parents or grandparents made statements or had ideas we found to be "old fashioned".   We listened politely but it went in one ear and out the other.  We perhaps rolled our eyes behind their backs?  I admit to being a young know it  all.  I've learned however, in retrospect that my parents and grandparents were not as dumb as I thought them to be.  AND now that I am on the receiving end, it's not a nice place to be.  Karma bites.... and it will for them someday.

[Scoop]

Smiles - what prompted this?  Did you talk to DS again?  Or are you spinning your wheels?

I'm going to assume that you talked to DS again ( )  What did he say to bring this on?

I wouldn't be afraid to put it out there "Don't you WANT to spend "grown up" time with us?" or "We can stay in and watch TV at home, we're going to 'your-city' to see you.  Why do you have to go out THAT night?"

Could it be that they've bought tickets for something for that night, or made other plans, knowing they could count on you?  Or else, could it be that they don't get out together much, and as such, it's not that they DON'T want to spend time with you, it's that they want to spend time with each other MORE?

Stick to your boundaries Smiles, I think the 'no babysitting while the kids are sleeping' rule is very FAIR.

[jdtm]

We listened politely but it went in one ear and out the other.

For many of us, this is the difference between how we reacted with our elders and how our children/grandchildren react with us.  But then, that says a lot about today's society, doesn't it?

[FAFE]

Actually, I would prefer spending time with GS rather than having to pay for every bite of food my DS & DIL expect of us.  Don'[t mind one nice meal, but don't ever plan to pay for everything we (and they) eat when we visit.  We'll get a motel room and just visit with GS.  I do love the other two, but just don't like them sometimes!!!!

[Doe]

Here's my 2¢ -

I think they will treat  you however they do until you make your new role known.   It sounds like they see you a certain way (free babysitter) because that's what you've done?   If you visited regularly with plans made to go out at night rather than stay home, then they would see you that way, wouldn't they?

Doesn't it always come back to us and how we view ourselves?    I like to help my sons out and at times, I've felt manipulated into giving until I realized that it's something that I like to do.    It's not what they are doing that matters, it's what I'm doing.

I say if you are tired of babysitting and your son doesn't want to play, then it's time to go back home and have some fun there.  I think he won't miss the water till the well runs dry.

[Scoop]

I agree with Doe, with the addition of letting you know about "change back" behaviour.

Whenever you make a change in a relationship that has gotten 'comfortable' for the other party, you should expect them to want you to 'change back'.  Some people will even push pretty hard in order to get you to 'change back'.  You have to be STRONG.  If you relent, it's like training dogs and kids, they'll realize that they just have to do xxx LONGER in order to get you to comply.

There's also something called an 'extinction burst'.  When training dogs and people to change their behaviour, they will often push hardest just before giving up.  You have to be strong and wait it out.

[pam1]

Smiles, why don't you ask DS?  I think it's better to get an answer (even if it's one you don't like) then have to go over this again and again.  It seems to really bother you.

And I do know what you're saying, I go through this with DHs FOO.  Their comfort levels and preferred activities are so vastly different than mine.  I spent a long time going along with everything they wanted, simultaneously being resentful and feeling forced to do everything their way and ignore my own preferences.  Until I realized that actually, I really dont have to do any of that.  It is/was very freeing. 

Yes, there is some backlash (well, in my case a whole lot.)  But at the end of the day I decide what I will/won't do.  They decide for themselves.  If they want to watch Disney movies all day for family time, and I know I will likely stick a fork in my eye if I had to do that, I do have the right to decline.  They think going to the casino or racetrack is immoral, I can't make them go.  If they do go, then whatever upset they have is with them and their own choice to go.  I can't make them do anything, they can't make me do anything.

But we could find a common ground.  I think my situation is too far gone for that, but it sounds like you have some good stuff that is still there.  Maybe spending time together during the day is the best it's going to get.  Will you be ok with that? 

[NewMama]

Smiles, your situation seems to me to be about mismatched expectations. He's expecting you to spend family time together and babysit GD so they can go out, and your expectation is that they find a babysitter so you all can go out together. Some people get so enamored with their own children it's truly unfathomable to them that anyone wouldn't want to spend all their time the kids. Asleep or awake. It really reads to me like you're balking at meeting their expectations but getting upset that he's not meeting yours.

If you've been clear about what you will or won't do in regards to their expectations - ie, not babysit GD while she's asleep, then maybe you need to just flat out ask DS if he wants to go out as adults. And as an adult, he's allowed to say no for whatever his reason is. Just as you're allowed to say no to babysitting for whatever your reason is. Speculating about if he does or doesn't want to spend time with you (without GD) and the reasons why seems a lot like 'spinning your wheels' and asking seems like a simple way out of it.

[Monroe]

Smiles - I agree you should not be treated as a servant.  If I recall correctly, in years past you stayed with them?   I can see that if you are staying with them, they might be more likely to see you as coming to fit into their lives and help where needed.  As in - "Good - Mom's coming.  We'll give her the guest room and I'll be able to work late and get caught up since we don't have to get the kids from day care by 6:00, and she can stay with the kids and we'll have date night". . . and so on

I seem to recall that you no longer stay with them - you get your own hotel room or Bed and Breakfast.  Good for you.  That defines the trip as one you take to visit their city AND see them.  Not a trip to stay with them and be their servant.   What city is this, by the way?  I seem to think it is a major east coast city, like NY or DC, in which case there are many touristy things I would certainly want to do if I visited there. 

Since you've already made the break and no longer stay with them, next time you go, why not say -  "Dad and I are coming to NY/DC/whatever.  We're going to tour the memorials/go to whatever museums/the theater quite a bit.  We also want to see you and the kids" . . . and schedule times to visit the GK.  You can also ask if they want to join you at dinner/theater/etc.  Maybe you buy dinner and theater tickets - they pay their own sitter.  You simply meet them at the restaurant, and part ways at the theater after - so the sitter $$ is clearly on them.

I think you have made an important step in securing your own lodging - that makes it YOUR trip to their city - not a nanny moving in for the week.  I say schedule your trip, book your lodging, schedule a visit or two with the GK, invite AC to an evening or two out, and then you and DH enjoy day trips in this far-away city.

All that being said, one reason I do not visit my out of town DS and DIL is that they are busy with their careers, it is too far away to go just for a weekend, they can't take vacation time to entertain me if I should come, and I do not want to get in the way.  They don't even have kids yet.  I do think that a young family with busy careers and young children can't be expected to have much of a night life.  I know that when DH and I had young children, our social life revolved around the kids and their activities.   If that is the phase your son and DIL are in right now, you may just have to adapt to that and join in, and not expect too much adult-only time.  When in Rome . . .

That does NOT, however, mean that you have to be the babysitter when THEY have adult-only time.  You should be able to be part of any adult-only events planned when you are there.   

I am totally with you, not wanting to be a servant for AC.  If they want a servant, I can give them the $$ for one a lot cheaper than I can pay air fare and hotel to visit them.  (But since they both have good jobs, they can hire the help they want themselves!    )

But I don't think you can expect them to exchange a kid-centric life for adult-centric activities just because you are in town.