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Need advice before I blow it

Started by Dalmania, September 09, 2012, 09:23:25 AM

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Dalmania

I have lurking around and finally decided to post.  My story is not as heartbreaking as most, but I need advice so it never gets worse.  It actually is two categories, adult daughter and FMIL, but it mostly has to do with YDD.

I have been a widow for many years.  I have three children, a son and two daughters.  They are the joy of my life!  They don't smoke, take drugs or drink excessively.  They all have worked hard and purchased their own college or trade educations, cars and insurance.  When they were young, I was able to give them music, dance and figure skating lessons and camping trips.  Thankfully, it wasn't the worst life for them.

I almost remarried once, but decided against it.  We ended up sharing our present house together and live platonically, which suits me fine.  I'll call him "DF" (friend).

YDD has always been like a little soul mate, finishing each other's sentences, laughing at the same things, etc.  When she was small, she would sneak into my bed and give me kisses and tuck me in.  If I was more than five minutes late picking her up, she would be crying, fearful that I would die and never return.  Once, the two of us drove across the country together, laughing and joking all of the way.

Anyway, YDD wants to get married.  First, let me explain about her and her boyfriends.  Every single boy has been a "project"; they all have something that she is going to fix.  Of course she never admits this, but that is the pattern.  Number one was a compulsive spender and deeply in debt.  Number two had just gotten out of jail for running a meth lab.  Number three had been terribly abused by his parents and sexually molested by a family friend.   Number four was an art teacher that was a train wreck pothead.  That one ended abruptly and badly and quickly ushered in number five.  Within an extremely short time, she was going to marry him (Not like her...she has always carefully weighed in on marriage.)  He is not without drama; his father used to burn him with cigarettes.   I am wondering if the old biological has started ticking loudly, as she is 27.  He has only just turned 22.  She is always the big cheerleader.

YDD is now a model and is just beautiful.  She is charming and polite, too.  I am always amazed at the speed at which all these boys' parents have pushed their sons on her.   Every mother was ready for her son to marry YDD!  But the FMIL wins the prize, but more of that in a minute.

YDD and I started planning the wedding.  Right now, I don't have too much money to put toward it  We discussed having it in the back yard, but she thought that wasn't special enough.  About that time, an event planner that she had modeled for told her, that as a favor, he was going to be her wedding planner for free.   Frankly, there will only be maybe 35 people at this wedding and I don't think she needs a planner, but I kept my mouth shut, pretty much!  We don't have any family that will be able to come.  They are all too old, too sick, dead or estranged.

In trying to find a place for this wedding that is cheap and special enough for her, I suggested a place in the state she was born in.  It is just so unique with drop dead gorgeous photo ops.  And it was dirt cheap!  I told her that I could pay for a destination wedding in that state and when she came back home she could have a big party for everyone else, since the FMIL wants all these people at the wedding and balked about cutting the list.  I told her that if there was a place that she had her heart set on that was more expensive, I would always try to get the money for her.  Well, she somehow took that as me saying that if there was a more expensive place out of state that I wanted, I would pay more!  We had some argument, and she wouldn't listen to me trying to explain what I said.  Then she went and told everyone that I would pay more money if it was where I wanted it to be!

When I tried to give her suggestions of local places, I was told I had to go through the wedding planner directly and not tell her.  I know that he never looked at any of them.  He suggested the roof of a building downtown.  Sounds, cool, right?  No, the roof is covered in gravel and tiny succulent plants.  Covered, as in everywhere.  Also, there is no railing and it is four floors up.  There isn't any cover if it rains, it is very narrow and there is no refrigeration for food.  Guess who will be stuck dragging a hundred ice chests upstairs?  It faces the back of a hotel with big industrial fans humming constantly and a busy parking garage.  So we got into an argument about the roof and I think this is part of the problem.  She downloaded a picture of some roof in a big city and I think she thinks the tiny roof can be magically transformed into NYC.  I think she is leaning toward the roof and doesn't want to tell me.  Well, so be it, but I have the feeling she is going to be disappointed.

Enter the FMIL.  I met her on Mother's Day.  DF and kids always take me out to a brunch and at last minute, FSIL's parents were added.  We arrived first and I told everyone to sit on one side of the table so when they arrived, we could easily converse.  FMIL sat as far away from as possible, so we never talked until she moved closer, just before we were going to leave.  She seemed frantic about the wedding and was going to have an engagement party for people who wouldn't be invited to the wedding!  Since i didn't now her well enough to say that that was tacky, I offered to bake a big cake (I am an artist and I am into a lot of stuff like cake decorating, too.  I am also sewing the wedding gown and doing the flowers).  When I got home, i wrote to her on Facebook and invited her to our house or to go out for coffee and discuss the wedding.  She blew me off and never answered.  So, I commented on her posts on Facebook, but there was nothing back.  FMIL practically stalks YDD's Facebook page, just gushing about how YDD is HER daughter and YDD is so perfect for her son and all this junk.  So I posted an adorable photo of YDD, when she was tiny, on her page, just to see if FMIL would comment.  Nothing.  FMIL whisked YDD off to Disney World (she one of those people obsessed with Disney World) and had the engagement party there, where we couldn't be invited. 

Now FMIL has arranged to move them into their first apartment together and I am no allowed to help.  They are constantly staying overnight at her house and I barely get to see them and we all live equal distance apart.  She has offered to pay for a reception at the place she picked without any flack like I took.  I have had about enough of her.  When I asked YDD why FMIL doesn't like me, so I could repair the damage, YDD says that it is in my head and of course she likes me.  Who knows if the marriage will last, but if they have a child together, FMIL will be a thorn in my side for the rest of my life! 

Help!  I have always spoken my mind and yes, sometimes too much.  I have a hard time pretending that I am happy when I am hurt and YDD has always been able to read me like a book.  How do you all cope?  What should I say?  Do I have to keep quiet when FMIL gets everything she wants?  I don't want to lose my daughter!

















luise.volta

Welcome - My take is she's already gone. Money talks. She's young and she has a lot to learn as she establishes her adult values. You can watch from the sidelines...and be there for her but/and beyond that she is entering adulthood as ill-prepared as most of us were and will learn as she does. I am speaking, at age 85, from my experience as a 20 year-old bride who married into money. I was overwhelmed and dazzled. My parents gave us towels for our wedding present that my mother had crocheted on beautifully at both ends. My in-laws gave us a new car, paid for our for apartment six months in advance, bought our sterling, etc. When I went wild  spending money I didnt have, they paid my bills. I had no experience with wealth and generosity. My parents weren't misers but they were close because frugality was a necessity. They couldn't do a thing but watch my process and were wise enough to face being dropped by their superficial daughter. I eventually learned. I stayed very close to my in-laws because they were wonderful people but I also returned to my family of origin and was welcomed with open arms. It had to be in my time-frame and they understood that. Love often triumphs.
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

Dalmania

Thanks , Luise!  That is quite a story!  Yikes!  A car and silver and all! 

The thing is, FMIL doesn't have a lot of money....I am actually not sure how they can afford all these trips to Disney World.  I believe that it was mentioned that her current husband only recently got a job.

Oh, and let me just say that when we were discussing the roof and the FMIL, i did not sound as cynical as I sound here!  I was restrained.  I was just pointing out that she might be responsible for the plants dying or is there a danger of some person drinking too much and falling off the roof!  I guess I am taking out some anger!

pam1

Welcome Dalmania :)

Please read the highlighted items in the category Open Me First.  We ask all new members to do so in order to get a feel for WWU and how we came about.  I think you'll find a lot of support here, glad you found us!

I think your concerns about the wedding location are very valid.  Since you do have a good relationship with your DD, could you talk to her about some parts of this?  Maybe the location coordinators can put railings up?  I find that if you approach someone with solutions to a problem, rather than critically, it seems to go over better.  It's great that you haven't said anything yet.  Weddings seem to bring out the strange in people. 
People throw rocks at things that shine - Taylor Swift

Doe

Hi Dal-
Just like we had to learn everything on the fly with babies, I've had to learn how to shut up with my adult children.  Shut up and find my own place without the AC as my main coordinating points.  It's hard because I am so wise and full of good ideas, but it seems to work better if I do.

luise.volta

This is a good place for anger. We're all with you! The end of my story about my in-laws is that we divorced after 18 years but I stayed close to my in-laws until they passed on. She lived to be 104! And she never forgot to tell me that the two grandsons I gave her (with a little help from her son) was the greatest gift she ever received. I agree with Doe about the mouth-zipper. It sure has saved the day for me many times after I finally found it. I don't know what to add about people spending money they don't have. It's about them, not you...maybe turn your head? Sending love...
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

Dalmania

I am hearing what I need to hear!  I know in my heart that I should just keep my mouth shut.  I just have to tell my head that!  I was pushed around when I was younger and I regret not speaking up for myself then.  There is always that feeling that I can't stand by and watch someone take advantage, hurt or ignore me, as in the case if FMIL.

Doe, you are right! They were always so much of my life, there has never been a place of my own.

Pam, that's a great idea!   

Luise, Yes, spending money you don't have IS all about them.  I love your stories!  I'll bet you have some great ones!  And, as someone who likes needlework, I bet those towels were lovely! ;D

I hope these problems don't seem too trivial.  I guess I have a secret fear of YDD easing out of my life as others here have.

herbalescapes

I'm a little in the dark about what exactly is the problem here.  I can understand you having some reservations about FSIL considering his age and history, but since DD is well past the age of consent, it's her decision.  I can understand you having some reservations about the wedding locale, but again, it's DD's (and FSIL's) decision.  What is wrong with DD accepting a business acquaintance's offer of free services?  No one NEEDS a wedding planner, but if one is offering free services, there's no reason to turn them down.  I don't see that as a situation where you needed to bit your tongue.  I see it as a situation where it really wasn't your concern.  Since you and DD have already butted heads over wedding details, it might be the smartest thing for your relationship to put your ideas through the planner rather than DD.  And how can you know he didn't check out your suggestions?  If he's been in business more than a few weeks, it's likely he has checked out pretty much every location in the area for other events.  Or you could be right and he ignored your input, but again, that's between DD, FSIL and the wedding planner. 

Your DD could be right and the FMIL likes you fine.  You may not be getting that vibe because you are jumping to conclusions about her behavior.  If DD is spreading lies about the wedding discussions between you and her (my mom said she'd pay more if we have it where she wants), FMIL may not want to get into the middle of a Mother-Daughter battle.  That could be why she doesn't want to get together to discuss the wedding and didn't have a littel tete-a-tete at the mother's day brunch.  And if she believes you are trying to control the wedding by offering money, it's not odd that she's trying to stake a claim in the young couple's lives, too.  She may be afraid that as the wife's mother you would have an inside track on being involved (that old saying "a daughter's a daughter for all of her life; a son is a son til he takes a wife"), so she is trying to stay relevant.  The easiest way to stay relevant to someone is with money.  Not the best, mind you, but the easiest. 

Do you really think FMIL planned the party at DW specifically to exclude you?  If she likes DW, I think it's a natural location.  You wanted DD to pick a wedding locale in her birth state; how is that much different?  Unless the engagement party was thrown specifically to get gifts from people who wouldn't be at the wedding, I don't see the problem with having an engagement party with a guest list bigger than the wedding guest list.  In many circles it's quite the norm, not tacky. 

Whatever FMIL's finances are, it's not your business.  If she can and wants to help the couple with their apartment, that's between them and her.  Why would you expect a voice in that?  If she wants to take 10 trips to DW each year, it's not for you to comment upon.  That's her.  You are you.  Have faith that you are a decent, lovable person. 

Have a little faith in you DD.  If you really have been soulmates in the past, trust that you'll weather this.  Maybe she is being dazzled by the money being thrown her way; usually people figure it out eventually.  If you put yourself into a contest with FMIL, especially if you become GM's to the same GC, you will run yourself ragged and probably set yourself up for failure.  You have three kids.  Did you do everything exactly the same for all of them?  Of course not.  Did you love them all totally?  Of course you did.  In the heat of an argument someone might throw out "I love So-and-So more" or "You always favored so-and-so" but the reality is, people are pretty good at having more than one relationship in their lives.  DD can grow close to FMIL and still be close to you.  Your GC can love both GM's the same.  It's not usually the GC comparing what gifts they got from which GP's, but the GP doing the comparison. 

It's hard not to imagine the worst - that your kids will cut you out.  It happens and on this site there are many examples of that happening.  But you don't want to let your fear of what might happen cause that reality to happen.  Good luck. 

Dalmania

Herbalscapes: ouch!  Haha!  Don't worry, point well taken!

I went back and read what I wrote and yes, it wandered all over and was whiney.  Let me say it better.

No, I am not bragging that they are such good kids.  I am sure I didn't do any exemplary parenting job.  I was just blessed with easy kids.  I would never guess that DD would get distant.

I am worried because she IS distant.  She doesn't seem like the same kid.  If I ask to help, she is curt and usually explains that FSIL's family are doing it.  I won't lie; it hurts.  It just seems like I am suddenly cut out of everything.  I offered to make her dress and do the flowers because I don't have much cash to give right now.  (As an artist, it is often feast or famine with money!)  I used to have my own sewing business, so offering to sew a dress was no biggy.  Her big concern was, "What if FMIL wants to buy me a dress?'"

I gave her a set of dishes that I had, but she is returning them because FMIL gave her a set of used dishes.  I offered my van to help her move, but FMIL has already given them her van to use.

The destination wedding was a huge mistake on my part.  We were looking at it on the computer and her eyes lit up like a Christmas tree.  She seemed like she wanted it, but then came back a week later angry that i had suggested it.  Of course FSIL's parents would have been part of it and anyone else that could make the drive.  I was only trying to help her find a romantic place I could help with because every single place we looked at was far too expensive.  Yes, I know that she certainly could have the wedding in a park or the local fire hall, but she insists on "romance".   I know the wedding planner didn't look into things because I finally  told her to call and find out.   And the roof is a worry because i don't want to be sued or shut doen for safety violations.  No one, including the planner, seems to understand that if you put tables, chairs and people on succulent plants, that they are going to get torn up and someone just wasted a lot of money on plants!

I don't care how much money the other family has, I was just stating that they are not rich.  It isn't my business, but yes, i am guilty of idling wondering how some people afford things, but I don't dwell on it.  I was sad because they took her somewhere and when I offered to take FSIL on a little trip, they weren't interested.

As for all of the boys being "a work in progress" I just feel sad that she doesn't have someone that is all about supporting her!  FSIL seems a lot better in that department, so maybe she won't end up all drained and used up like she was from the others.  It is her life....I am not arguing that....I just hope the best for her.

And finally, the thing lurking in my brain is how I ended up with my own mother.  We had a disagreement that somehow changed our relationship.  I was always the one to call on holidays and one year, I didn't, just to see if she would call me.  She didn't and basically never called me again and sort of quietly eased out of a most of my life.  She lived 1,400 miles from me, but lived across the street from my sister, (who wouldn't speak to me for 18 years and no one knew why) so i don't know if my sister had anything to do with it.  I tried hard not to let my little family turn dysfunctional, because there weren't the best examples in our lives.   I don't want to make the same mistake with my own child.  I do worry about turning the other cheek and having it seen by DD as not caring, like my own mother.

Doe

I think it would be a good idea to start a preemptive exit from your daughter's life so that you don't end up feeling left behind.  I don't mean exit for good, just lengthen the line that attaches you together.    She sounds like she's going through a lot of change and re-establishing priorities and if you are too close, you can be collateral damage, even if she isn't directly trying to hurt you. 

I would say for you to start putting some distance yourself and get on with creating a cheerful happy life like you would have even if she had eloped.  When she asks for something from you, you can decide then if you want to give it.

I know what you mean about the parent.  I did that with my dad and it took him 3 months to get in touch with me.  When he did contact me, I let him know I was happy to hear from him.  I don't expect a whole lot from him, though.

I think a lot of people want  stress free relationships that make them feel better rather than worse.    Keeping it simple is an art in itself, imo.

constantmargaret

You said you didn't stand up for yourself when you were younger. Maybe your DD is similar.  If she's being pressured by FMIL, maybe she can't say no? Give your DD room to figure out her new family dynamics without worrying about hurting your feelings. She'll love you for that. Try to be secure in the great relationship you've always had. If she lets FMIL buy her a dress, or gets someone else to make her cake, try not to take it personally. Hard, I know.. . Try to see it not so much as a rejection of you as her trying to accept her new ILs. 

I would say something like, "Honey, it sounds like you have a lot of people helping you plan your wedding. I would like to be a part of that and help out too in any way I can, but I don't want to bug you or seem controlling, so I'll wait for you to let me know what you'd like me to contribute."

You won't blow it.  ;D





Tiskit

Wedding - This is your DD's wedding.  She is an adult and can make adult decisions about her wedding.  There always seems to be someone who "wants to take charge" and "wants to have the last say" on how things are done.  As long as your DD allows this, FMIL will continue to do it.  I would just duck out of the way until you DD ask you to contribute.  As ConstantMargaret said, extend that hand to help out when asked. 

Money - There is one thing I have learned, never leave your pocketbook open with a sign "whatever you want."  After awhile, they expect it.  If you want to give money, give a certain amount.  If they overspend, then so be it, then the extra comes out of their pocketbook.  If they spend less than that, then they can use it for something else; ie, honeymoon. 

I hope things get back on track with you and your daughter ((hugs)). Your DD is going through that next phase of her life; she is getting married and starting her own life and traditions. 

Dalmania

Well, I guess I am starting to feel a bit dumb about myself!  But, I am always learning and I thank everyone for their opinion.  That's all I wanted.

Things had escalated and I got angry and wrote my rambling diatribe. ODD has been very sympathetic, but can't think of any advice to offer, and neither can DF.   

I am thinking that offering help might seem pushy to her right now.  When she was younger, she was a competitive figure skater.  It is all that she wanted to be.  I had to be responsible for ice time, coaches, skate sharpening, ballet, strength training, competitions, testing and on and on (I had to be then; she wasn't old enough to drive) .  When she quit skating after seven years, she didn't know what to do with herself and told me that she missed having me take care of her life and all the details!  I told her that she had to figure out what she wanted to do on her own.  She accused me of not caring!  So maybe that is some more insight to how we got so entwined in each other's expectations of how we should act.





pam1

Doing nothing is always a viable option for those of stuck in these kinds of situations.  It's what stage I'm at now!  And I've got to say, it felt like the weight of the world lifted off my shoulders when I "detached with love."
People throw rocks at things that shine - Taylor Swift

Footloose

All the advise here is spot on.  You must back off and wait to be asked.  i know it's so hard but anything you do now can be held against you in a court of law...uh, wait!  wrong line?  LOL!

You get my drift I'm sure:)  the FILS are the flavor of the moment so step back and let her deal with things.  You will not get sued if someone falls or damages foliage.  You are not the bride and it is not your party. 

I was the flavor with my DIL at wedding time but things swayed back to her FOO after the kids came along.  No guarantees except you will get hurt if u get involved.  Say nothing even a bit critical about any of these people.  it will come back and bite you. 

Focus on setting your own boundaries and what you want from this new stage of your life.  Please do not be like me and sit for their next call or inclusion.  it may not come.  time to focus on you and let her focus on her?   

Hugs!