Not bonding with GC

[pam1]

I think it's fine for everyone to have opinions on child-rearing.  However, I'm not fond of generalizations of what other parents do with their children.  If it's not abuse, then their way is the best way they know how at the time.  (IME, the constant nit-picking did DHs parents no favors)

I also think what works for one child doesn't necessarily work for another.  Just because my kid can remember and converse about an incident later, doesn't mean all kids can.  I get that, but just because not all kids can doesn't mean my kid can't.  No one is made the same.

And again, this is JMHO, whatever the case may be...as long as it is not abusive, the parents wishes should be followed.  If the parent said the kid doesn't have to hug, I would just follow it.  Why rock the boat? That's my mantra.

[Grieving]

pam1, I think we all agree that most parents do the best that they can at any given time. I,also, thought that I was clear that I was making generalizations, but based on limited experiences, and with some attempt at humor. One has to resort to genealizations in a forum such as this,as well as in most discussions because to only talk in specifics would be prohibitive.

Both of my children were very intelligent, according to tests, genius even. However, they were still children, and as such, made  mistakes, needed guidance, and were not perfect. Today, I see far more parents willing and expecting schools to do what should be done at home, yet never believing that their children should be held responsible for their actions. Oddly, this is just as prevalent in the "better" neighborhoods as in "poorer" ones.

We can disagree on whether child should have been forced to hug GM or not, but fundamentally I think it is showing disrespect for GM. IMHO, unless there has been some sort of violence, out right hostility, or abuse, parents and grandparents are due respect by virtue of age and experience. By teaching child that he doesn't need to respect elders, you(collective pronoun, not specific) are going to reap what you sow.  We would not be here if someone in our lives were not causing stress, so perhaps your issues with your Ils cloud your perspective, just as my issues with DIL cloud my perspective.

[pam1]

Grieving, thanks for your input.  However, WWU does discourage generalizations.  The moderators here know from experience that generalizations tend to polarize posters and threads devolve.  I understand your concern about discouraging generalizations leading to a small field of conversation, but that's WWU. 

[Smilesback@u]

One more thing I want to say, is that this is such a good reminder to me -- that is, to not be so quick to judge how my DS/DIL parent or relate to each other.  I remember all too well how I had to deal with this DS who was such a live-wire, so smart, and needed a lot of attention growing up.  I was kept busy teaching him right from wrong as well as finding educational activities to occupy him.  There were so many teachable moments!  I know my parents thought I was too child-focused - but I knew if I didn't put in the time in a constructive way, he would get negative attention from me.  He was not going to sit still so by all means I had to find ways to involve his mind (ie building Lego sets etc).  I just kept trying to learn how to be a good parent to him and to be a good wife.  I was expected to teach DS, give him natural consequences, as well as keep a good marriage going.  We had different upbringings and did not see eye to eye on discipline and a lot of things - so raising kids was hard on our marriage.    I think people do not realize until they are walking in your shoes how draining it all is sometimes.  And that it takes a lot more time than a typical visit for family to get what is going on.  No one is perfect and I forget that, because not everyone is as gifted, smart, resourceful, understanding, capable and resilient as I am.     Seriously, I forget sometimes how hard it is to raise a family, and I really am grateful that I am not raising kids now, cuz at 60 years old, I get stressed with the energy level and needs of my GD as well as DS/DIL.   I can only do so much.  So thanks for the reminder, very humbling to remember not to judge. 

[Grammie]

Pam1...understand that on one occasion DS told the child to hug me and when he said no DIL told him he didn't have to do anything he didn't want to do.  On the yuck occasion DS told GS to hug and he responded with Yuck.  I did not initiate a hug on either occasion and both occasions resulted in the child disobeying his DF and getting his own way.  That may not qualify as abuse but certainly is not the best lesson to teach a small child.  I too have had an occasion where I instructed a child to sit and keep his hands to himself on the bus.  His response to me was "I don't have to do anything I don't want to do".  He was sent to the Principal the next day and learned very quickly that he most certainly does have to do what he's told whether he wants to or not.  You do a serious injustice to the child if he is allowed to have that kind of attitude without reasonable correction.  It may be the choice of the parent but it is the responsibility of educators to undo the damage done by parents who go too far in any method of teaching.

[Smilesback@u]

I really feel for teachers so I always supported the school when it came to doing what was best for my sons.  I wanted my sons to succeed in school and we needed teachers' help year after year.  I knew my sons needed consistent teaching from school and parents to grow up responsible adults.   I had some kooky ideas at first, like there were certain ways to talk with my son which I got from one of the latest child rearing books.  One day I realized other adults do not have the time to have so much dialogue with him, so he better learn to listen to adults and do what they ask of him the first time, within reason.  In relationship to my GD, if DS/DIL want me to do something that I don't agree with, well, then I don't do it, quite honestly.  They can't make me, so there's the rub, which affects our relationships, which is no secret.  Otherwise, I only visit a couple times a year, and  maintain my right to say No, I won't be doing that.  I try not to get in their face about their parenting cuz they already know where I stand.  So that probably explains why we are not so close, huh?              

[pam1]

Grammie, I tend to think every parent is going to see it different, especially concerning what lessons are best for each child.  I really think a lot of parents try their best, they may not be the best, but they try.  With more information, it sounds to me that you got caught in the middle between the parents and the child.  Not an easy place to be, I'm sure. 

My only point is that from my experience, it's a road I'm going to refuse to go on.  DD and I were nit-picked for so long that natural consequences set in. (and I'm not saying you're doing this at all, just want you to know where I'm coming from)  DD heard from Grandma about how much she hurt Grandma for not holding hands, nit-picked over how she ate, what she ate and when she ate, complete with how the parents allowing her to be this way was foretelling doom and gloom for her.  As she got older, DD became more and more uncomfortable in that she clearly understood Grandma really didn't approve of how her mother parents and it was totally obvious to DD.  (without DH or I saying anything to DD, she picked this up loud and clear)

It's just in my experience these types of things fall on *my* personal minor list.  From the fall out it helped create in my own situation and from situations I've read over the years here, it's just not worth it for me to go back to that place where we had to justify our parenting decisions.  All of it was clearly avoidable, but the insistence of hurt feelings and airing their opinions over what I consider minor got Grandma an unfavorable impression with DD.  It wasn't my poor parenting that lead DD to think that way. 

[Smilesback@u]

again Pam, words of wisdom for me to pay attention to. 

[Grammie]

Pam1,  No we are not caught between parent and child.  We are caught in the middle between DSs perception of reality and reality itself.  My posts were very clear on what the issues are.  Our issue with our GC is that we are not allowed to see them because DS and DIL are using them as a means of punishment.  Their reason for estrangement made no sense to anyone.  After 3 months of trying to make sense of it all the trip to the past began and DS began criticizing my parenting skills going back 25 years.  We decided that we had had enough and were not going to be sucked into the tornado they were creating.  So we stopped trying to fix something that can only be fixed by them.

[Pen]

How true, Grammie - it can only be fixed by them if they so choose. Sadly, all we can do is take care of ourselves & our reactions to their treatment of us. I sincerely hope you find some peace with all of this. You're worth so much more than how you're being treated! You deserve an anger-free life. IMO, as far as we know for sure, it's the only go-round we get. Live it up!

[Footloose]

OK,  the whole hugging and abuse thing has gone on long enough on this thread so here's my 2 cents:

Dear son, did we ever sexually abuse YOU?  No we did NOT so why the heck not let the kids know it's OK to hug GPs?  really?!  I think this is just another excuse to disrespect the FOO.  Another CONTROL issue of "my way or the highway".  This granny chose the highway!

Just remember, your children are learning how to treat you as you become the elder and GP.  Hope it doesn't get u where so many of us good GPs are;  Used UP, EXCLUDED, disrespected and unwanted!

Helicopter parenting is neglectful to the child and inhibits their confidence and independence.  I can see why so many grown adults at over age 30 still rely on the family for FINANCIAL support.  In my opinion, this is reversed!  The adult children should be helping out their older parents and lightening their loads but nope, not today!  So many continue to suck from the tit of the FOO until they no longer need them then they are discarded like a worn out sock.  My son continues to compare his upbringing with his friends who got so much more.  They had few rules and all the support they could take for way longer than needed.  These people are still not on their own, living independent lives.


One of the politicians says "It takes a village to raise children".  Nope!  It takes GOOD FAMILY to raise children.  At least one person who is committed and devoted to the child's success and future.  If that child has more than one positive adult influence, all the better!  No one loves your children like you do or your parents.  It is a FACT in any close to normal family out there.  The human heart has endless capacity to love and just because your kids can get very close to other supporters, does not mean less love for you.  It benefits the child so please do NOT be selfish in these petty disagreements.  Keep the peace for the far outreaching benefits of having support for your child with as many adult, positive role models available to them.  This applies ESPECIALLY for MIL/ DILs and the rest of the extended families. 

I never thought I would be divorced from my only child.  The disappointment is bitter and so am I.  I will remain available should he ever want to reconcile but I will be sure to make my expectations crystal clear and if he cannot respect me in my few wishes, all having to do with common courtesy, than we shall be apart forever.

I will be no ones doormat and that includes relatives!

[Grammie]

Footloose you make some excellent points.   My heart breaks for you.  Being rejected by your only child is so very unfair.

[Footloose]

Thanks Grammie,  U dont deserve it either.  The whole "yuck" comment thingy makes me think that it most likely came from prior comments about you and your visit.  Kids suck up any info they can get and if emotions are tied by tone or volume, they will especially tune in.  Kids hear the discussions and banter and will borrow the opinions of the parents.  Mommy says yuck about ganny so granny must be yuck.  Makes me sick to see so many children deprived of their families and the wealth of love and perspective they can benefit from. 

Wow! talk about throwing he baby out with the wash water, HUH!?

[Pooh]

Let's remember that no one wants to be told that their way of parenting is wrong.  You may not like another parent's concept of what type of parenting they choose, but the bottom line is that it is their right to parent how they choose.  It is your right to accept it or not and move on.  There are many parenting styles that I love and many that I don't like, but it's still not my place to tell any parent what to do with their child or their parenting is wrong.   

The concept here is to share our experiences and opinions, offer suggestions, ideas and sometimes just a shoulder to cry on.  The concept here is not to force your beliefs on someone else and tell them they are wrong if they don't go along with it.  Having that happen to us is the very thing that has brought many of us here.

[Smilesback@u]

I agree Pooh wholeheartedly.  I would not want anyone to criticize my parenting, but when I reach out for help, a shoulder would be awfully nice.  Having a sad time lately trying to let go of my expectations