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Is it hard to except the truth or hear a different perspective?

Started by Bride2Be, April 28, 2010, 10:05:54 AM

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Bride2Be

To answer your question Anna, I never have stopped them and I never will.  It's not my place to decide where he spends his time.  Not all DILs want to control their husbands every move.  I just don't want to forced or manipulated with guilt into having to tag along.  I don't want to have the same relationship as my husband and his mother might think I should have with her.  I understand about family history but wouldn't it be your son's responsibility to make sure his family history is passed on??  It's my job to tell my kids about my family because my husband doesn't know nor was he there and he hasn't heard the stories I have about my people.  And I don't even know everything there is to know about my own family, so before I go even deeper into his family I want to explore my own.

I feel sometimes MILs gives us DILs too much responsibility and blame for bringing the family together.  We understand that it is important but some of us want to cultivate our own first, we want to feel more as a unit before we indulge into your family so misunderstandings aren't taken out of proportion, and everyone feels like they have a solid ground to stand on when together.  DILs don't want their MILs to feel like they have to walk on egg shells and neither do we.  But we need time to adjust to having a husband, being the woman of the house and having kids in some cases.  Some people take longer than others to warm up but that doesn't mean there is something wrong with them.  For me it means, back off.  If I don't act like a loving daughter, oh well.  Sometimes that's just how it is, but bad mouthing me and damning me to hell for brainwashing her precious, used to be so sweet until he met her son doesn't work either, LOL (That was a small vent, sorry :o )

It can also seem like MILs think their son is the victim and he is being totally manipulated by his narcissistic wife (just a DILs perspective).  When do MILs decided that if their son is staying around, even complaining constantly, why hasn't he left??  When do you say as a parent I can't do anything about it, hating her isn't making my son come around me anymore than before.  Staying for the kids, IMO, is outdated and over used.  I was in a home where at times, I wished my parents would separate instead of staying together and being unhappy.  So why haven't your sons left if these DILs are so incorrigible?  Maybe they aren't as unhappy as you may think.  Maybe it just they aren't the person you would really like to see your sons with.  I don't know, I can't speak for all DILs just for myself.  I'm not making light of anyone's situation, I'm just speaking how I feel as a DIL who has dealt with a MIL acting as if everything is my fault.

Can you accept if your DIL just doesn't like you?  Not what you have or haven't done to her, but your personality as a whole.  What if she just is put off by it and would rather keep things civil, can that be accepted?  Do you feel like your DIL has an obligation to spend time with you, why or why not?

Thanks Ladies!!!



Bride2Be

Hmmm, that's where my husband is different than most men I guess.  He is the thoughtful one, he buys cards and remembers birthdays, I barely remember my own mother's birthday, lol.  I have never been that way so I think for my MIL to expect that from me just lets me know she doesn't know me nor does she accept the fact that I'm not like that. 

I don't think DILs have to spend time with her husbands family.  I think that is totally by choice as with going to visit anyone else.  Just because I married him doesn't mean I automatically like  spending time with them nor does it mean I have to go.  If thats the case my husband knew before we got married I wasn't into that, so he had a choice then.  If I go, I sit quietly until it's time to leave.  I'm not there for his family I'm there because he wants me to be there for him.  I'm not the most family oriented person and I have never really liked family functions.  Now that I'm an adult, I have a choice and I can't please everyone nor will I try.  That's what I mean by acceptance.  I am who I am and I feel like I have to make adjustments for people who don't mean as much to me as they do my husband.  I'm willing to compromise with husband but thats where it begins and ends for me.  My family knows these things about me and still loves me the same.  I don't go to my own family functions and they still know I love them and they love me.  I guess as a DIL I'm so tired of having to "prove" I want to be apart of my husbands family or "blend" in.  I didn't have to prove anything or blend in to my own family and they love me anyway, so why would I do that for people who clearly think something is wrong with me from the beginning? 

Speaking for myself, I have enough obligations in my life.  I chose to marry my husband so that's something I chose to take on.  But I didn't marry his family so I didn't chose to take them on, I choose to respect them and receive the same in return.  I don't want to feel obligated to people who feel slighted at the first thing I do that isn't in their favor.  It's true my husband and kids come first, my biological family, then other people in my life.  I'm sorry if I sound harsh but the truth for me, I'm not into being family unless we have been through something together as a family.  If not, you will never ever compare or be even close to my own family, but that's just me.

Pen

MarriedChick, my DS made a committment to his wife when he said his vows. He takes them very seriously, and will do whatever it takes to preserve his marriage. He learned that from his dad, my DH. We would never expect him to chose us over his wife; in fact, we've told him that when he's come to us upset over her treatment of us. IMO, some DILs can make life so unpleasant for their husbands over IL issues that the husband avoids the source of her unhappiness whether it makes logical sense or not. DH & I are out, not because DS wants it that way, but because it makes life less stressful for him. In those cases, DILs absolutely do have the power to either keep a family together or break it apart. Unfortunately, ours has chosen the latter. No, she doesn't have him chained to the banister, but  her behavior and mood can affect his decisions.

I thought it was interesting to read about Creme's and Anna's experiences, and to get Married's perspective. Although we paid for DS's education and living expenses through college, once they married we stopped helping except when they asked and we felt like it. We have given gifts for birthdays and Christmases, but even that seems to be too much for DIL. She buys us really cheap or re-gifted items as a way to show us how she feels. I think maybe she feels guilty about accepting things from us since she hates us, but I think it would be really awkward to not give her a present equal to DS & DD at Christmas...but perhaps MarriedChick has a point and we should just leave her out on Christmas Day? I'm very confused, since I don't see how leaving her out could help. Wouldn't that just be one more thing she could say about us?

Anna, our DIL was friendly, accepting and considerate before the wedding. We enjoyed her company and she appeared to enjoy ours, We vacationed together and all seemed fine. Shortly afterward she changed. That's why I think she had an agenda from the start to "cut him from the herd." She wanted DS and us to think she was excited about joining our family, knowing that once it was legal she had no intention of being civil to us and would work to cut our contact with him.

I'm not at the point yet where I have "nothing to lose" so I'm not bringing this up to DIL or DS. We still see them occasionally, DH is grateful for whatever he gets, DD wants to see her brother, and I think it would be selfish of me to ruin everything for them just so I could experiment with honest communication. It could totally blow up in my face.

One more thing - I still don't understand why the same "rules" don't apply to DIL's parents and family. They get daily access, holidays, gift exchanges, texts, phone calls, etc. with no limits or "boundaries." What do you think?
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

Bride2Be

Hi Pen!!

Well you're right her attitude can change they way he comes around if it's that stressful for him.  My husband is different he goes around but doesn't make it a big deal if I come anymore.  Thats the difference for me.  I can't change his mind about his family.  Maybe your sons are kind of weak minded, no disrespect meant.  But if it's that important to be with family he will and he will just deal with the consequences or leave.

I'm not a gift giver or receiver and I was irritated too when my MIL would buy me gifts.  I know that if I bought her something not as nice or nothing at all I would be, once again, wrong, lol.  I didn't want to be obligated to buying her a gift so it's best she doesn't buy gifts, I let her son do that.  I guess, can't change how others feel.

For the record, in my home, my parents aren't any more special.  I don't call them but maybe once or twice a month, my mother has NEVER offered her advice, she only gives advice when asked, she doesn't feel like my husband has to spend time with her just because I married him and she doesn't expect anything from him but respect.  That's the difference, my mother didn't put all these expectations and obligations on my husband like his mother did me.  She was just happy I was happy and anything else was a bonus.  But I am my mother's youngest child of 6 she has 20+ grandchildren and 2 greatgrand children.  She's not new to this so she learned a long time ago about sticking her nose where it doesn't belong or make demands upon her children and their spouses.  So it's different for me.

Boundaries are a good thing.  They are needed when people don't feel respected.  If you have boundaries maybe you have done things that haven't been received so well and that person doesn't want that to happen again.  You have 3 choices, follow their rules (respectful), blow up and get mad and say you DIL is the devil (childish) or leave them alone because you think their boundary is unnecessary (disrespectful). 

I hope you can see that all DILs are different, we don't all want to kick you out of our lives, but I personally want respect and not to be obligated to more people.


Pen

Thanks, MarriedChick. Obviously our situations are very, very different. My DIL's family sees DS & DIL daily, and make all the plans and schedules for all holidays and events. We just sit back and get what we get  :(   DS did stand up, along with another of their SsIL, for his right to spend occasional holidays with us so that was nice.

My stepmom is very similar to my DIL, so maybe I'm hyper-sensitive to this treatment. Once when my dad invited me out to dinner while in my neighborhood, he said, "Don't tell ________. She gets really jealous when I mention you and your brother."
She still gets on the other line when I call; my dad and I never get to talk privately unless he calls while she's gone. DS does the same thing; we'll have great conversations when DIL's not around.

I lucked out all the way around, didn't I? For someone who just wanted a family it's really hard sometimes. With the help of this site, and everyone here, I'm going to come out the other end better than ever (I keep telling myself..)

Best wishes to you, MarriedChick. I hope everything works out well for you. Thanks for being so helpful to us all; the topics you bring up are really interesting to explore.
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

Pen

Married, just to be clear, I didn't say I had boundaries, I said DIL's family doesn't have any. We're too aware of our status as outsiders to be comfortable calling, emailing, dropping in, or whatever. We've never been invited over except to help them move, and we have never dropped in or called to say we're in the neighborhood. DIL hasn't had to set boundaries against us because we're self-monitoring, but we sense our limits and stick to them. Good grief, we just want to have an adult relationship with DS & DIL.

About gifts, etc., in my situation I feel like DIL thinks she'll get cooties or something. I know when I see something that reminds me of someone I detest, I want it out of my sight immediately. I think that's how our DIL views our gifts. She doesn't want anything from us or our friends, in fact they exchanged wedding gifts that they had registered for! Very rude and hurtful. Our friends, many of whom weren't invited to the wedding due to our limited guest allowance, went out of their way to purchase expensive gifts from the registry and have them shipped. I've had to be very vague about it when they ask, "So how do they like the _______?"

We have one son. Our daughter will not be having children. If DIL cuts us out, that's it for us!

Anna, best of luck to you. I think your DIL may be changing her perspective a bit, and I'm hopeful it continues to be good for both of you. You seem to have done everything she asked, under difficult circumstances. Maybe she's seeing that you passed the test or whatever.

Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

Bride2Be

Well Anna those are a lot of rules. The only rules I had were not to let them eat junk all day, got tired of getting sick kids back, that was for both grandmas. Don't let them be disrespectful, both grandmas and just use common sense. I figure they raised kids before all these special gadgets came around. If they fall, kiss the boo boo and make it all better. I don't care where either GPs take the kids, as long as I get a break!! (Gotta be honest, lol).  If you're self monitoring then great, but that can be misunderstood as acting as if something is wrong all the time or like you're treating me like I'm a time bomb that will explode at any moment, lol. Kinda hurtful for me when MIL would say "I don't want to say or do anything to hurt you" but then proceeds to do the things that bothers me most...go figure.  I know her intentions are good but still too extreme, lol.

You ladies are helping me a lot this time around...

1Glitterati

Quote from: Anna on April 30, 2010, 05:55:11 AM
If you don't like, or get along with your mil, would you stop your husband or your children from spending time with them also?  If so, why?

Anna...this is a very generally response...and I don't think it applies to your situation, but here goes as to what the thinking may be.

I do feel flares of anger when dh spends time with his parents.  After what they did...and aren't sorry for...and won't say sorry for--I just can't believe he has anything to do with them.  But...that's his choice.

As far as kids...why would anyone, if they didn't like and trust their mil and thought their mil treated them badly let the kids be around that person?  Why should you let people who treat you badly have the pleasure of your children's company?  I think that's what some dils think.  I also think some dils do it as punishment.  I know I think both about my ils...but they do see my kids.  I don't want them to...but I allow it.

There was a period of about a year and a half that they didn't, but now they do.  I'll be honest...and I'm NOT ashamed to admit this, if it weren't for the fact that ods already knew them and wanted to be around them then they wouldn't see the kids at all.  Yds was too young at the time to realize anything was wrong...and the ils had never spent much time around him anyway.  If it weren't for the fact that ods wanted to see them AND we lived next door...I wouldn't let them see the kids.  They betrayed us.  They hurt us.  They aren't sorry.  They don't have good judgement.  Frankly, I don't want them around my kids at all...but ods loves them so I suck it up.  I do it for ods and only for that reason.

I stay away from my ils as much as possible.  I don't want to be around them.  I no longer like them---and once I loved them.  In fact, had a relationship with my mil very much like what you used to have with your dil.  I surely do not trust them---and never will again.  I won't see them for dh.  There are limits even to love.  I will not expose myself to people who have deliberately hurt me to please my husband or anyone else.

1Glitterati

Quote from: Anna on April 30, 2010, 08:59:21 AM
I don't hold my dil solely responsible for things that happen, altho I think dil can help.  Most men are not good at buying cards, calling mom, passing along whatever, this does not excuse them, by any means.  The male brain is just different than ours.  I'm the one who buys cards for BOTH sides of our family.  My hubby just doesn't have time, nor would he even remember when his moms birthday is.  As a mom myself, I know how hurtful it is to not be acknowleged on a birthday or mother's day, so I go buy the card for hubby's mom, it's a small thing, & it means so much to hubby that I do this, & to his mom when she receives it.  My hubby is a very loving person, he's just forgets dates.  If you know that your mil would hold you responsible for receiving a card, why would you not go buy it? 
I think that all dils are required to spend some time with their in-laws,  they did marry our sons. 

Yes...the male brain is different...but if it were important enough to them...they'd remember it.  I've said before that I never took responsibility for the cards.  I did take responsibility for the Xmas gifts for many years, but no longer do that.  Sometimes he buys cards, sometimes he doesn't.  There have even been times when we've been out and I've been picking out cards and I've said...do you want to get your parents a card.  Most times he says "no".  (Frankly I think it's one of the few ways [and it's very passive aggressive] that he feels like he's getting back at them for the hurt he feels.  Maybe it's generational...but I just don't see where it's my responsibility.  Yes, it'd be nice if I did it, but I don't want to.  I'm just as busy as he is and they're his parents.

As to the colored...because whether or not mil thinks it's my responsibility, it's not.  It's her son's.  If he thinks it's important enough, then he'll do it.  If not, he won't.

I agree w/married.  I no longer buy the requirement to spend time with the inlaws.  I will if I want and if I don't I won't.  When my family has functions...he is invited, but there are no hard feelings if he doesn't attend.  And, there are many things he doesn't attend.

I think your situation is so different because your dil and son have you there 5 days a week watching the kids.  If you're responsible and safe enough to watch the kids...I don't get all of the stuff that's going on. 

luise.volta

I may have gotten lost but is this a real situation or a hypothetical discussion? My 2 cents is that I sometimes make assumptions and then think they are not only fact but universal. Then when I meet up with someone else who does the same thing we both go to our "be right" corners and all heck follows. Sending love...
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

Hope

"So, I hope and pray, with all my soul...that you all in some way, can find your way into the hearts of those who have hurt you...I believe you can, but it takes time...and preparedness...and to accept, that we did do things that hurt and upset them...we said things that may have hurt them, but it wasn't intentional..it was us, who we are an how we act...that is the simple meaning of why peop;e don't get along...b/c we all perceive things differently...and the reasons we don't mend things, is due to fear of rejection and fear itself...we don't want to admit, that we're wrong...which is to me, so small and silly." ~ Creme

Thanks, Creme.  Great post.  I'm happy for you and your dil that you worked things out and have come to a new understanding. 

I agree with you, it will help us come to a place of understanding and healing if we admit that we may have done something to offend our dils/mils.  I wrote in a post about a month ago that I think if we ask for forgiveness and admit that we have failed that it could open up the door to a renewed relationship.  I think some people may have taken that comment to mean that  I thought it was okay to lie about being in the wrong to manipulate the situation.  I didn't mean it that way - no to manipulation.  However, I think we can honestly say we are sorry for our failures without really knowing what we actually did to upset our dil/ds.  I do feel like a failure at being a mil since our dil avoids us at all costs and our ds has cut me out of his life considerably.  In my case, I must have done something to annoy dil - but I think it is probably more of a personality conflict.  Honestly, we have never had a disagreement or a blow out with our dil or ds.  However, my dil and I have very different personalities and different ways of handling things.  Most likely she takes things I do or say differently than intended.  Because of our differing personalities, she probably fears a close relationship and would rather keep it casual.

On the other hand, there are other mils/dils on this site that most likely have dils/mils with severe personality disorders or mental illness.   In those cases, I wouldn't consider them failures and they have nothing to apologize for.  They are nothing short of victims.

One thing we all have in common is the pain we feel and the desire to have peace in our lives.  I care so much for each and every one that posts here - mil or dil.  I hope everyone finds the answers to their relationship problems.  I know I have found many inspiring posts and sometimes I have an "aha" moment.  Little by little, I believe I am getting somewhere thanks to all of you.
Love you!  Hope

Nana

My heart is with all you mil who have been hurt so deeply.  I have walked in your shoes.  It seems to me that I am hearing my own stories some years ago.    I respect everyone's perspective in this mil/dil relationship.  I am almost afraid to give my opinion.
Marriedchick-- your mil probably pushed too much to get a close relationship with you.  But I think that it is only natural to want this because as a mil you dont want to stop having a loving relationship with your ds.   As a mil, I never in my wildest dreams did I think that is was healthier to have a "hello"  "good by"  relationship with the girl who married my son.    I as a mil never visit my son and dil uninvited.  I call my son or dil eventually when I need to tell them something .  I never give advice, I never intrude in their lives and respects the way they are raising my 2 small grandchildren.   We (husband and I)only raise our hand to help them when they need us.   And still had problems with dil for a couple of years.  You say that you married your DH not your in-laws.   Yet in-laws will be there forever because they are your husband's family.  The only way out is to kill them.  Why would you deprive your husband (who you love) of the happiness of being close to his family.  These are called "family ties".  On family reunions you just sit there silently until it is time to leave...wow...lets face it you really dont care  and I respect that.  You are not even trying ...it is hard for me to think and honestly I dont, that you have the correct perspective.  My respects to you though for your honest opinion.    I feel sad though....it is so easy to be happy with harmony in our lives.......but it is a choice we make       


Penstamen and Anna...  You are great women and I hope things change for you (it did for me) or God give you the serenity to accept what cant be changed and most of all give you peace of mind..  You have been hurt like most of us that have come to this site...and probably we did hurt also our dils .  The difference is that they have the power to decide our future in the life of those we love.  Why?  they have our son and grandchildren...we are in their hands lol.   

Even if you doubt it...there are happy endings....
Love is not love Which alters when it alteration finds, Or bends with the remover to remove:
Shakespeare

Bride2Be

Nana, in the past I would have gotten upset at your response.  But there is no point now.  ;D  I feel good about my situation regardless of how you feel about it.  You can't tell me whether I have the right perspective, simply because you aren't me.  You haven't walked a mile in my shoes nor have I yours.  My perspective is just that mine and I know that what I have experienced with this has been hell with a side of crap, lol.  Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not taking your post the wrong, but you remind me of the "typical MIL' who just can't let a DIL be hurt and angry and deal with it without being told they are wrong.   That's exactly what this post wasn't about.  This post wasn't about who's perspective is wrong.  This post is about all of us MILs and DILs sharing our different perspectives from our situations in hopes of finding some understanding.  OR at least learn that there are different ways to look at one situation.

One more thing, MILs have as much power as DILs do to "change" the situation.  That's what this post was really about.  MILs and DILs who can admit they haven't been as perfect as once thought and not constantly blaming someone else and waiting for them to make their life better.  So for you and your situation, maybe it is all your DIL fault and you are "waiting" for her to "see the light".  But don't put that off on me, I'm not here for that.  I'm making my life better even if my MIL thinks everything is all my fault, I'm happy and so is my husband.  Oh yea, try reading my first post on this thread and some after, you would see that I have never and would never take his family from him, not like I really could, but I'm sure all you see is "DIL who is wrong."  Have a wonderful day Nana.

Bride2Be

To Hope, Creme, and Pen...you ladies have been so wonderful on this thread.  I really appreciate the wisdom you all have brought.  It is refreshing to know that I can talk to you without judgement.  I need this as I can't talk to my own MIL at least not now.  You ladies helped me in my quest with this post, to find understanding.  I know see that some MILs really do mean well but sometimes traveled down that DIL/MIL road without a map, lol.  I can appreciate your honesty and willingness to admit your own faults without constant bashing your DIL.  Thank you for that.  We DILs want love and happiness too, we may go about it differently, but the goals are all the same. 

Thank you to all others who posted and brought a new perspective.  No one is ever wrong for feeling how they do we may just be misguided on how we got there.  No perspective is ever WRONG just misunderstanding along the way may have turned into something it didn't have to be in the beginning.

THANK YOU LADIES!!!!!   ;D

Pen

Nana, I understand your pain and hurt. The loss of a relationship with a child, even an adult child, can be devastating. I think this is sometimes difficult for younger people to understand, so we get frustrated and can sound angry when all we are is hurt beyond belief. I believe you haven't been a buttinsky MIL because my DH and I have also worked very hard to not offer advice, drop in, call, etc etc as I've posted so many times I'm sure it's boring to one and all ::)

It is possible to be a good IL and still have problems with a DIL, and vice versa. In those cases it's hard for MILs to understand that some MILs are truly horrible, and for DILs to understand that some DILs are too. We tend to group with like for safety.

As a former DIL, and now a MIL, I do feel as though I have more experience than those who are DILs only. It's not anyone's fault one way or the other, just the way things are. I remember having one awful MIL and one amazing one, and used my experiences as a guide. Unfortunately, my DIL was using her observations of her FOO to guide her (big rift beween ILs there.)

MarriedChick, I know it's hard to hear some of the MILs stories. It may be seem unbelievable that some DILs turned on a dime from nice and accepting to critical and shunning for no reason. It doesn't make any sense at all. But, since I've experienced it, I know it's possible. IMO what frustrates the MILs in this situation is that there's nothing we can do to fix it, since we truly have done nothing wrong.

We wrack our brains daily looking for something to apologize for! MarriedChick, I would be thrilled to find out that there was some phrase I used or action I took that was the cause of my DILs hatred! Isn't that backwards? The truth is, in my situation (and admitted to by DIL), DH & I have done nothing wrong. She just wishes we were out of the picture. In this instance DIL does hold the key since DH, DD & I want to have contact with DS, so we are silent and accepting.

Best wishes to you both. This is a site for understanding, and every post helps me on this often difficult journey. Take care.
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb