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Is it hard to except the truth or hear a different perspective?

Started by Bride2Be, April 28, 2010, 10:05:54 AM

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Pen

Thank you MarriedChick, this is a very enlightening topic. My DS is not OK with this, but as DH & I told him a few weeks ago when he came to us very upset about DIL's attitude towards us, "She comes first now; you need to work it out with her." We didn't suggest counseling, but he mentioned it on his own. We've never said anything disparaging about her. We don't want to put him in the middle, so we are silent and put up with it so we can see him. He is our son and we would like to have a relationship with him. DH, DD and I do miss him a lot, and although we're busy and fulfilled there's an empty spot with his name on it that hurts us, somedays more than others. It's very difficult to spend many years loving someone and then suddenly be forced to stop. I don't want to parent him anymore, but I'd like to be able to have an adult-to-adult relationship with him (& DIL, if she'd let me.)

I know it sounds like I'm not acknowledging any responsibility for a rift here, but DS & DIL both have said we've done nothing wrong. Every day, though, I try to figure it out and come up with the same conclusion: DIL doesn't want us to exist and is using any excuse she can come up with to keep DS away. When GC come she'll keep them away as well.

Creme, your honesty & courage here are so helpful, even though my situation is different from yours. I hope we all, DILs and MILs, can get some insight from reading your story and others.
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

Bride2Be

Creme, that's the beauty of your response.  You weren't always this open-minded.  You took the time and changed your own way of thinking and that's a beautiful thing.  I really enjoy reading your post because it shows your strength and courage in the situation.  It gives me hope because you said it took 12 years before things actually changed, I've been with my husband for 8 years and things have progressively gotten worse.  You make me think there is a light at the end of the tunnel.  Not for my MIL and her coming to grips with everything, but for me as the DIL.  I know that I can change my way of thinking about her even if she is still oblivious to her part in it all. 

Allohamora, I can relate to you simply because I was 18 when I met my husband and still very "wet" behind the ears.  We think we know so much but we don't, lol.  I guess for me though I didn't want that new information about life coming from people I didn't know and didn't quite like how the did things...ehh.  You live and learn, lol.  Maybe I could have learned something from MIL, but I like hearing things from my FOO, though.  It's much more comforting for people who have spent time with me to help me out.

This has turned out to be a great forum for me.  I think there is a lot of honest responses from people who are willing to look in the mirror.

You gals are great!!

cremebrulee

I am a natural born philosopher...it's part of who I am....I'm told all the time, I'm way to deep...it there is some thing on a nature channel, or the news, about a certain subject, I want to ask questions beyond...I'm curious and not satisfied until I know all there is to know about a subject, thank goodness for the internet...I don't drive people crazy any more with questions....however, it doesn't sit well with a lot of younger people....

and let me tell you, I'm 61 years old...and when I was in my 30's - 40's I thought I knew it all, plus, now when I look back and remember how I felt about issues, like for instance, Dr. Kavorkian....and what I believe now, let me tell you, it's interesting to watch yourself change...the older we grow, the more we learn....and it's absolutely astounding....


cremebrulee

Quote from: penstamen on April 29, 2010, 09:07:19 AM
Thank you MarriedChick, this is a very enlightening topic. My DS is not OK with this, but as DH & I told him a few weeks ago when he came to us very upset about DIL's attitude towards us, "She comes first now; you need to work it out with her." We didn't suggest counseling, but he mentioned it on his own. We've never said anything disparaging about her. We don't want to put him in the middle, so we are silent and put up with it so we can see him. He is our son and we would like to have a relationship with him. DH, DD and I do miss him a lot, and although we're busy and fulfilled there's an empty spot with his name on it that hurts us, somedays more than others. It's very difficult to spend many years loving someone and then suddenly be forced to stop. I don't want to parent him anymore, but I'd like to be able to have an adult-to-adult relationship with him (& DIL, if she'd let me.)

I know it sounds like I'm not acknowledging any responsibility for a rift here, but DS & DIL both have said we've done nothing wrong. Every day, though, I try to figure it out and come up with the same conclusion: DIL doesn't want us to exist and is using any excuse she can come up with to keep DS away. When GC come she'll keep them away as well.

Creme, your honesty & courage here are so helpful, even though my situation is different from yours. I hope we all, DILs and MILs, can get some insight from reading your story and others.

Pen, big hugs,  :)

I really really hope things work out for your son and DIL, and you all...

cremebrulee

Quote from: allohamora on April 29, 2010, 08:46:53 AM
I think Creme's response was excellent as well. The best I've seen!

I made a lot of mistakes as the DIL in my MIL/DIL relationship. I know that I wanted to monopolize DH's (then DBF) time when we were together and I think it...no, looking back I know, that at 18, I thought Dh's family was much less, for lack of a better word, worldly then the people I was used to and it annoyed me. I took huge offense when they showed a lack of knowledge and biases towards my culture, and I retaliated ten fold by insulting theirs when I felt slighted. It was a terrible beginning to a life long relationship.

I was young and had it happened today, I know I would have dealt with it differently. I would have more patience and perhaps had that been my approach to start with, we wouldn't have ended up insulting each other and instead trying to learn from each other. Well, at least with MIL. I think, nearing 90 now, GMIL was stuck in her views. At our wedding, in a foreign country, she kept complaining that she 'couldn't understand these people' (who spoke better english then I do frankly!) and that everything was 'weird' and she couldn't udnerstand why we wanted to go to this god forsaken country to get married, where 'they' might harm us... LOL! :D Can't change the world right?

Today I'm very, very proud of my husbands heritage. He comes from a long line of hard working people who made their mark through their efforts in their communities, and their devotion to their families and country. Today, in my home, we have a large photo of the first *last name* member of his family to arrive in our country, and I was lucky enough to spend time with his grandmother before she passed away, and learned things about their history that even MIL and FIL weren't aware of - and I look forward to sharing this rich history with our children. I realize looking back I was not nearly the 'wordly' girl I thought I was, having little knowledge of my own country! Hah!

what a wonderful story....

Yanno, we all make mistakes, we all look back and see things we could have done differently...when we have our babies, we are children ourselves, and we grow and learn with them and from them...life is marvelous, and it makes me so happy to read a story like this...I beleive the hardest thing for human beings to accomplish, is to be able to say, "I'm so sorry, I was wrong", or I'm sorry I hurt you....and it's such a shame to not be able to admit ownership in relationships that have gone badly.


Pen

I remember being an expectant mother, planning how I would do things differently, and of course better, than the other moms. I bought a front pack and was planning to hike and cross-country ski with my baby - no hanging around inside for us or being stuck to pavement with a stroller... but DD hated it! She'd do the "cat avoiding bath" spread and there was no way I could get her in that thing. My vision was not to be.

What I learned was that we think we can control everything, but kids are who they are and we must adjust to their needs and let ours take a backseat for awhile. I chuckle to myself when the young, expectant moms at work confidently talk about how it's going to be...and I wish them all the best:)
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

Bride2Be

Pen, you are so right about that.  Even I said I wouldn't do somethings with my children, but they have taught me that I can't dictate it all.

I'm glad this post has developed the way it has.  I feel much more comfortable with the ladies who have decided to respond, I feel as though I have a better understanding of some MILs.

cremebrulee

I am really enjoying this thread to...different perspectives, to me are my way of learning and going forward....love to listen to the perspectives of others....

thank you for this thread

Pen

I'm trying too, Anna, but our DIL doesn't give us much to work with. It's so sad. I wish we could have a comfortable relationship with DS again, and at the very least feel that DIL wasn't out to get rid of us. If only there was something I could take back, I'd do it immediately.

If anyone has any input on the syndrome my DIL is exhibiting (wanting ILs to disappear from day one) I'd appreciate it.

Today is really hard, for some reason.  :'(
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

Hope

Pen,
I'm so sad to hear that you're having a bad day.  From everything I've read about your situation, you have done things right.  It's just not fair, is it?  You enthusiasticly did your best to be a wonderful mom to your ds and now you feel as though he is rejecting you.  Just horrible!  I wonder about other situations similar to yours in years gone by.  Do you think as sons got older they came back into their parents lives?  I don't understand how any son can just permanently turn their back on the parents who love them and raised them.  It doesn't compute and you deserve so much more than that.  I wish I had the answer for you - I want you to have joy back in your life.  We care about you and want what's best for you.  I'm worried that this stress is going to do a number on your health.  Have you seen a doctor about this?  I hope knowing that your friends here on WWU care about you will help you have peace.
Big bear hugs, Hope

Hope

MarriedChick,
First of all, I want to say that it says a lot about you that you care enough to come to this board to find solutions to your MIL/DIL situation.  That means you want to do something to better the relationship.  Good for you!

To answer your questions:

"Is it hard to except the truth or hear a different perspective from your DIL/MIL?" 
To tell you the truth, over the past seven years I've known my dil, we haven't spoken that much about anything of substance.  We haven't really spent that much time together, but when we do it's in a group and just friendly chit chat.  I wish she would gently tell me what she doesn't like about our family.  At least we would know where she's coming from and hopefully improve the situation.  I think in order to have a healthy relationship with someone you need to be willing to hear their perspective on things.  I'm ready to listen if she would be willing to spend time with us and talk.  When you marry someone, you become a member of that family and I think it's imperative that you make an effort to get along.  You will be a member of that family hopefully for the rest of your life - make the best of it.

"Are you living up to the expectations of your DIL/MIL - if so why or why not?"
I wish we knew our dil's expectations so we could make adjustments to make her feel more comfortable and accepted.  Maybe you could tell me the best way to approach finding out what her expectations are.  I'd really like to know from a dil's perspective.

"Can you appreciate that someone is different than you in many ways and not feel slighted when your expectations aren't met?"
My dil is as different from me as day and night.  She is very creative - I stink at creativity.  She is very funny - I'm very serious.  She isn't very domestic - I am.  And so it goes on and on.  We both have good and bad points.  I realize that there are things about her that our ds loves very much and we want them to be happy together.  All we want is for our ds/dil to be genuinely happy together in a healthy relationship and to have harmony in our family.  I want them to be a part of our family.  However, I try not to have expectations - it hurts too bad when they aren't met.  I tell myself not to expect them to initiate contact with us or answer my calls or return my messages.  But that doesn't make for much of a relationship...........dysfunctional is a better word for it.

"Can MILs/DILs admit that they are partially responsible for the rift in their relationships with DILs/MILs??" 
I am more than willing to take responsiblity for my share of the relationship problems.  Actually, I want to know what I am doing wrong so I can correct it.  I realize, after reading posts from mil/dil's alike, that I was too pushy about our family getting together.  I just took for granted that our lifelong tradition of getting together for our birthdays would continue, for instance.  I would try to find a date everyone could make which was assuming too much.  I also invited all our family members to the park, bike riding, Christmas tree trimming, etc., but backed off when ds/dil didn't show interest.   I'm slowly learning.

"Do MILs/DILs have "entitlement" issues like "DIL *should* like me or MIL *has* to do what I say."
I think parents hope that when someone joins their family they will try to blend.  That doesn't mean that mil's should boss the dil's around, or vise versa.  That doesn't mean that regardless of the treatment one receives, they must like the other person.  You can't force yourself to like someone.  Having said that, I do think it's important to the family unit that everyone makes an effort to get along.  If a dil discourages her dh from seeing his foo, it is unnatural.  That separation can cause tension and unhappiness in your relationship with him and can cause you both undue stress.  It also effects the people in his family and can cause a lot of pain.  When a mil rejects a dil, it has the same effect.

I sure hope my perspective helps you see another view point.  That's all it is - my viewpoint.  That doesn't mean I'm right. 

Hugs, Hope

Pen

Thank you, Hope. You are so sweet to care :) DH says yes, give it time and DS will come back. DS & DIL are still young and likely to change as they mature. If DS isn't absorbed completely into DIL's family we might have a chance.

Regarding MarriedChick's questions, I think you answered thoughtfully and spoke for many of us. I, too, don't know what I can do to be accepted by DIL and would appreciate some input about how best to find out what her expectations are. Good post!

I came to a realization today about an expectation I have that I hadn't realized before. I worry that my family's history is going to be forgotten because we're not important to DIL. When she rejects us it feels as if she's rejecting our ancestors and their stories as well. Family histories survive because the current generation passes the stories down to the next. If a generation ignores one side of the family, that information is lost forever. My family's history is really interesting, full of good people who did amazing things. My expectation is that my family will be respected enough to have our history passed down to the next generation.

If any of you have cut off a side of your family, do you still pass the historical knowledge on, or is that side of the family gone forever? Are any of you afraid of your family history being lost?
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

cremebrulee

one thing I realized, which was the most difficult...for all these years, I kept swearing, that I didn't do anything...I did nothing to upset her...perhaps in my own fears of admitting I was wrong in some way...she kept saying the same thing...I know this thru talking to my son about it...I cannot imagine the frustrations and hurt he felt...our children only want our approval...and when we reject they're wives, we reject them...when we try hard to talk to them about it, they take it as we're demeaning they're wives, not presenting to them our perspectives and the way we saw things happen...

you go to a scene of an accident, and talk to 5 witnesses...each witness tells a whole different story of what they saw...and as time goes by, those perspectives change, become more dramatic, and the stories sometimes get even more blown out of porportion...they are not lying, they are telling they're side of the story and the way they saw things...each mind perceives something different.

then when our DIL's act out in a certain way...we take it as rejection, which is so very painful...when in fact, she is just as frustrated angry and hurt as we are...she also wants to be likes and she is perceiving us as not liking her...and it begins to escalate...anger, fear, causes us to actually surpress actions that we do, because of who we are and how we're used to doing things...no one ever told us before, that we're doing things wrong...our son's before they were married, overlooked our faults, b/c they didn't see any, they saw a mother they loved and learned to accept us, unconditionally. 

When I started to accept, that maybe, just maybe, I hurt her unintentionally...it was like this distant faint voice, which took months to creep up on me and whisper constantly in my soul, that maybe I contributed to this...I didn't know why, and I became hungry for the knowledge of wanting to know what I did...I felt compassion for my DIL...and this voice kept saying, "But what if you did do something unintentionally and you didn't mean it that way"? 

Another great fear, was talking to her about it, I feared rejection again the most...but then I thought, what do I have to loose by discussing this with her?  The difference was, I worried that I had done something, and when she told me what I did, I was ready to not take what she said as a personal attack, but more so, how she perceived me...and she to realized, that she perceived me wrongly...as I did her...

I had all these melodramatic stories festering in my mind...she's doing this because, or she's doing that because, and it blew way out of porportion...and wasn't so...she wanted to be liked, but she didn't want to be smothered and pushed and made to feel like she had to love me....

By buying stuff for them, was overstepping boundaries and it made her feel like she owed me something...even though I didn't want her to feel like that, you can't control how people feel.  She wanted to make her own decissions, her own choices her own mistakes...in her own household.

The whole key to resolving these issues for me, was acceptance of the fact, that I must have done something wrong...and I'm sure, there are things I did, that hurt her, that I still don't know about or never will...

I was ready to listen to her...to embrace who she was and how she felt without getting defensive...and when she told me things, I was literally embarrassed and astonished that I treated her like that...and assumed that just because she was married to my son, her household was mine...how dare I?  When I was in her home, I was a visitor and should have acted as such, grateful and always remembering, I am a vistor....

I shouldn't have called as much, but given her space...I shouldn't have sent so many emails...it smothered her, and made her feel like I was pushing myself on her...and that is exactly how I felt when my mil did that to me....I remember the feeling of wanting to sometimes scream..."please leave us alone".  I remember the dreadful moment, when my mil and husband told me she was going on vacation with us...sheesh...the last thing I wanted...not that I disliked her or anything, I just wanted to spend my only vacation with my family alone...without someone else there to dictate where we should go, what we should do, and when we should do it...God, it was awful and not a vacation at all.  And we didn't have severe problems...it wasn't personal...I just wanted special quality privet time with my family.  I felt so smothered and wanted to just run away and be alone, by myself...it was awful. 

Pen, Hope and Anna....I pray, that things will change for you all, and I know in some cases it can...all my life, when I heard that people are getting divorced, I used to shake my head and say to myself...God it could be so easy to get along if people would not be so stubborn and just listetn to each other without taking what the other one feels as a personal attack...

So, I hope and pray, with all my soul...that you all in some way, can find your way into the hearts of those who have hurt you...I believe you can, but it takes time...and preparedness...and to accept, that we did do things that hurt and upset them...we said things that may have hurt them, but it wasn't intentional..it was us, who we are an how we act...that is the simple meaning of why peop;e don't get along...b/c we all perceive things differently...and the reasons we don't mend things, is due to fear of rejection and fear itself...we don't want to admit, that we're wrong...which is to me, so small and silly.

I do realize, that everyone of your situations is different...and won't be like mine, just wanted to share my inner feelings...I'm not always right, more often, I misperceive things...and people...so, please don't think, I'm telling you, you are wrong, or anything like that...I am speaking from my heart of what worked for me...

I love you guys...and hope and pray, all willbe well with time...patience and a lot of soul searching...


Bride2Be

Creme you're making me wish you were my MIL, lol.  You said something that struck me

QuoteAnother great fear, was talking to her about it, I feared rejection again the most...but then I thought, what do I have to loose by discussing this with her?  The difference was, I worried that I had done something, and when she told me what I did, I was ready to not take what she said as a personal attack, but more so, how she perceived me...and she to realized, that she perceived me wrongly...as I did her...

I absolutely wish I could talk to my MIL with an open heart.  I'm sure she feels that I might reject her.  But from a DILs point of view, I already felt rejected because she can't see how she has hurt me over the years.  I have sat down and talked to her on many occasions, trying to mend things.  I would always find myself apologizing while she sat and "basked" in the glory of knowing that I knew I was wrong.  Did that make sense?  That's just my perception.   An apology and understanding of how her actions have also caused a rift would make it WAY easier for me to really talk to her. But that's my wish, my perception and essentially my problem. 

I know I have made many mistakes as far as getting along with my MIL.  I could have been more patient, kind and open to who she was.  When you feel like you're backed into a corner, it's not a good feeling and doesn't cultivate warm and loving feelings.

I know I won't be able to talk to her because my husband has been dead set on not allowing anyone to hurt her feelings, even if it was at the cost of mine.  So I've learned to stay away from her.  I can't handle her with kids gloves as my husband does.  She is an adult who says and does things that can be perceived as rude or inappropriate and over the years I have held my tongue so I wouldn't disrespect my husband.  I still don't think he sees his role in how this all came to be.  It is still "my fault" the relationship between his mother and I hasn't worked.  I haven't "accepted" her love so therefore, it's my fault.  He always says, "She is who she is and she won't change.  You should just adjust for her so I can have my family together."  Needless to say nothing has come from that line of thought other than me deciding to drop the whole MIL issue and never come around. 

Creme, if my MIL had the mind you have I would be more than willing to start again but there have been so many thing said between us.  I don't know if there is a chance I could ever be in the same room as her again. 

Thank you Hope for your answers. You made this statement,
QuoteI think parents hope that when someone joins their family they will try to blend

That was a huge issue.  I wasn't trying to blend in.  I'm not a blender (you get what I mean, lol).  I wasn't trying to blend in, I wanted to be respected about the fact that I am different.  I don't hug people and his family does, they still make comments about why I don't 8 years later.  I'm not really into getting together with family, they took that as a personal attack if I didn't come by to visit.  I have never felt accepted into his family.  I'm sure they felt the same because I didn't jump into their family traditions.  I felt as though they thought it's what I needed and wanted because I married my husband.  Not quite.  I have a family, dysfunctional, but my family.  I wasn't expecting to have his family trying so hard to treat me as one of them.  It wasn't a bad thing but not what I expected or even ever dreamed of wanting.  From a DIL point of view, Most of us want to be accepted for who we are, not thought of negatively because of who we aren't.  I know wasn't looking for a new family, but they thought I was and understandably so. 

It really boils down to perception.  So the next step is to let go of this perception.  I can do that, but can she, who knows.

free_at_last

Quote from: penstamen on April 29, 2010, 10:29:17 PM

If any of you have cut off a side of your family, do you still pass the historical knowledge on, or is that side of the family gone forever? Are any of you afraid of your family history being lost?


My husband's entire family has been cut off.  I have two teenagers (one in college and one in high school) and my husband's family does have quite an interesting history which has been passed on to my kids (good things and bad), and they also know all the details behind the cut-off because they were old enough at the time to see and understand what was happening.  I think most children eventually will have some curiosity about the family that has been cut off even if they don't know them.

My situation is completely different from anyone I've read about here and even my husband never felt like he was part of his family before he ever even met me, and we are still passing on the history that we know, so I have to think that most people would keep the history going even after cut-off.   And if they aren't passing it along...eventually those children will grow up and start digging on their own.