Is it hard to except the truth or hear a different perspective?

[willingtohelp]

Married summed up what I was saying pretty well.  Basically it's this.  No matter how much you love someone, there is work involved in hosting them, planning to visit, sending a card, mailing a gift, etc.  In the past, that work has fallen to the DIL.  In the previous generation, women did the "womanly chores" including social calendar keeping,etc, while the men did the "manly chores" including the lawncare, car repair, etc.  Now chores are being split more evenly, with both the man and the woman taking some "daily chores" (taking out the trash, cooking, dishes, etc) and some "periodic chores" (mowing, oil change, etc).  We expect our husbands to handle the "work" that comes with maintaining a relationship with his family of origin.  We will do the same for our family of origin.   I know it's been asked how much work is it?   Well let's think about it.  For a card.  First you have to get it.  Let's assume i take the easy way out and just grab one at the supermarket.  That's an extra 5-10 minutes to read through 2-3 to find the right one and then find the envelope that goes with it.  Add in calming the baby while I sit there to look at the 2-3 and that's an extra 10 minutes.   Then I get home and go to my stationery center.  Grab the pen and just sign my name.  Ok that took about 2 minutes.  And MIl will complain because it wasn't personal enough or a note.  So I take the time to actually write out a note....now we're getting to 10-15 minute minimum because I can't say the wrong thing or she'll cry.  And heaven forbid you have to mark something out because that's just poor taste to send a card to someone with a scratch out where you wrote "womderful" instead of "wonderful" because you got carried away with the humps on your n (my MIL, again).  Then, I need to get a stamp.  Right now I'm using my old 39 cent stamps with extra stamps beside it, but that's "trashy" according to MIL.  So I have to go to the post office to mail it.  And wait in line because our post office doesn't have a machine (not MIl's fault, but it factors into the time).  Ok, so the note is mailed.  Don't even get me started on the time it takes to get ready for a visit.

And I know that the comments will be "your MIL is over the top, she should be grateful for the card", but it's not that she's said these things to me in response to the cards, she's just said them.  She talked about how she hates extra stamps and thinks it's trashy when she got a Christmas card while we were at her home.  She made the comment about never sending a card with a scratch out as she was tearing up a note and preparing to write a new one because she'd made a mistake.  But those comments are judgemental and stick out, and if you know the person has standards you can't meet or won't be happy with the effort, why try.  I think that's the difference between you weeding your neighbor's garden versus me sending the card.  Your neighbor was grateful.  If my MIL would be, then I'd send the card.

To address your question, my husband doesn't do the things I expect him to do in regards to his family.  He rarely arranges visits, he never writes thank you notes, and he's terrible about sending cards and gifts.  But with the things that I am doing, I don't have time to pick up his slack nor do I have any motivation.  He doesn't care if they get them or not, so really why should I?  I spent the first two years of my married life reminding him to call his family, trying to get him to invite his family out, finally inviting them out myself, getting the house ready for the visit, planning activities and buying passes to museums and attractions in our area for them only to have any praise they had for it go to DH and all the complaints (and there were a ton) to be blamed on me (including the fact that an event they wanted to go to was cancelled.  How that was my fault I'll never know).   And interstingly enough, his parents never send thank you notes. 

So I stopped.  If it wasn't important to DH and it wasn't making them happy enough to say thank you, then I wasn't going to kill myself to do it.  And DH didn't care to pick up where I'd left off, and the ILs yelled at us about it, and he got angry, and we haven't seen them since they yelled at DH for abandoning them and not caring (which, actually, is true from what I've seen, but it wasn't because of me). 

It's been asked "Why not do it because it will make your DH happy" or because it will make your MIL happy.  It wasn't.  It wasn't making MIL happy.  It wasn't making DH happy.  DH was just relieved his parents wouldn't be calling to complain about how hurt and left out they were and MIL just used it as an invitation to demand more time/attention/visits/etc, which in turn frustrated DH because we were both superbusy and finding time to sleep and eat was complicated enough. 

Conversely, with my parents or with his extended family, when we send a card, they say thank you and that it made them happy.  And when we visit, they say how much they enjoyed it.  And if they want a visit, they call and ask and accept if we say yes or no without a passive aggressive "on you never say yes, I don't know why I bother to ask" or "you're saying yes, wow, you never do that".

I read a post on here where the person talked about negotiation, that without both parties being motivated, a compromise will never be reached.  The MIL wants to see her son and grandchild (and maybe even the DIL, stranger things have happened ).  What does the DIL want?  Why is she coming to the table, sending the card, etc?  I often feel that some moms are cast aside because at this juncture in their child's life, they aren't "needed" in the mothering sense and to have the son and DIL put the effort into the relationship with them, they have to be wanted.  If the mom doesn't transition out of the parental role and into the adult friend/someone they want to be around role, then there's nothing on her side of the table to bargin with.  A MIL who isn't wanted can say "I'll stay away" and the new couple will say "great".  How a MIL can make herself wanted is the real mystery though.  You'll get 100 different answers from 90 different people (yes the numbers are intentional ). 

Sorry for the rambling.  Just thinking as I type, so I hope this makes sense.   And now 11 new replies have been posted, so I'm just posting this and hoping it's still on topic.

[cremebrulee]

Creme, how insulting.  I'm sorry that your DIL has had to deal with you.

what?  what did I say that was insulting...I am seriously very very sorry you feel the way you do...sorry for you, sorry for MIL...? 
I mean, what in the world did I say that was so insulting? 

I forget, but didn't you start this thread, and ask, if you are able to accept what others think and feel? 

as I said in my one post...marriedchick, if you take insult, then your certainly not ready to heal....we're being open and honest here...did I get hurt or insulted b/c of things you said, and you were very open and honest....?  Lets get together here and continue this discussion without getting upset....give it a chance, I'm not saying your right or wrong, I'm simply sharing my perspectives with you, doesn't say I'm right or wrong...however, I said nothing to insult you, now please tell me, why does it insult you?

[alohomora]

lol - you know what my husband said to me yesterday? We were driving home from work and he was musing about what to get his mother for mothers day. He has always sent her cards/gifts - buys his side gifts at christmas, never even imagined he'd think I'd do it. Meanwhile, I was mussing about some of these ideas. I talked to him about how much a woman's role has evolved in the last hundred years - my grandmother couldn't even vote and now look where we are. DH also does all the grocery shopping and about hmm, 75% of the cooking? I cook for big events or guests, and he does the day to day stuff. I also pay all the bills and organized the purchase of our house/car, our wedding, etc. I asked him what he was making for dinner and he smiled and said 'I'm sorry, I'm going to be busy evolving tonight, I have a lot of catching up to do'

Its still making me laugh XD

[cremebrulee]

Scoop
Oooh!  ::Pout::
But then I remembered that THIS is exactly why I come here.  To hear the other side and to learn.  And I'm supposed to be working on my relationship with MIL. 

This post was priceless and made my day
thank you Scoop!!!

[cremebrulee]

lol - you know what my husband said to me yesterday? We were driving home from work and he was musing about what to get his mother for mothers day. He has always sent her cards/gifts - buys his side gifts at christmas, never even imagined he'd think I'd do it. Meanwhile, I was mussing about some of these ideas. I talked to him about how much a woman's role has evolved in the last hundred years - my grandmother couldn't even vote and now look where we are. DH also does all the grocery shopping and about hmm, 75% of the cooking? I cook for big events or guests, and he does the day to day stuff. I also pay all the bills and organized the purchase of our house/car, our wedding, etc. I asked him what he was making for dinner and he smiled and said 'I'm sorry, I'm going to be busy evolving tonight, I have a lot of catching up to do'

Its still making me laugh XD

LOL, that was really comical and quit amuzing on his part....boy you gals are lucky to have husbands that do all this stuff...you really are....
God, I did everything...everything, even the lawn work, while my husband sat on the sofa watching football...I swear, mother's taught they're son's how to be shear monsters...helpless.....I'll say this, you've got something good going for yourselves in that evolution....

thanks for sharing this....

[alohomora]

I was reading an article written by the women who wrote live, laugh love. (might have the title wrong?) - she was one of Oprah's favourites, etc. It was about how hard women are on themselves these days - wanting to have ti all and be *the best* at all of it, and being really hard on themselves when they invariably fall short somewhere, whether at work or at home.

I find its difficult in my marriage sometimes because of pre-conceived notions. DH does the cooking, his share of cleaning, while I do bills, organize repairs, do most if not all planning for guests, etc. I've gotten frustrated because he can't fix ANYTHING or even put a shelf up. He jokes that he promises to make enough money to hire people to do these things, but I find myself wishing he was like my dad in that sense, able to fix/repair nearly any thing. Then I remember my dad NEVER made a meal, or washed a dish, or cleaned, or did any laundry, and I take it back immediatly

[Nana]

Creme:  I think the way you do.   I couldnt see where you disrespected Marriedchick.  This is not about fighting or trying to change the way others feel. 

Indeed this is a new generation and we are from the old one.  But I think this is not getting anybetter with the new generation.  Grandchildren are deprived of the unvaluable gift of having their granny's from both dad and mom's side.  And sons are really happy about this (deep inside)?Imagine, when were raising our children who were the world to us, little did we know that some of us would lose our son (in many cases) once they got married.   

This is a story.
There was this young lady who hated her mil so much that she went to visit a witch (or whatever) and told the witch that she couldn't stand her mil.  She wanted the witch to help her kill her.  The witch suggested that dil put a herb or something in her mother's in law tea everyday.  This would eventually kill her.   It would take a while, but it would happen. The witch also suggested the dil that during this time she treated dil with love and tolerance.  This was with the purpose that she would never be blamed for poisoning her.   So the dil did just as this witch told her.  She started putting this herb on mil tea and was extremely nice and loving to her. 
So, the mil started changing and return love to dil.   After some time, dil really loved her mil and went to see the witch and told her she did not want her mil to die. "" Do something to reverse this, she said.  The witch told her to not worry.  That the herb she was putting in the tea was not poisonous and that mil would not die.  She said, Ï wanted you to see how you can win the enemy with kindness.  When you treat someone with love  you will eventually get the same. 

[Marilyn]

I love that too Nana!

Very good

[cremebrulee]

Creme:  I think the way you do.   I couldnt see where you disrespected Marriedchick.  This is not about fighting or trying to change the way others feel. 

Indeed this is a new generation and we are from the old one.  But I think this is not getting anybetter with the new generation.  Grandchildren are deprived of the unvaluable gift of having their granny's from both dad and mom's side.  And sons are really happy about this (deep inside)?Imagine, when were raising our children who were the world to us, little did we know that some of us would lose our son (in many cases) once they got married.   

This is a story.
There was this young lady who hated her mil so much that she went to visit a witch (or whatever) and told the witch that she couldn't stand her mil.  She wanted the witch to help her kill her.  The witch suggested that dil put a herb or something in her mother's in law tea everyday.  This would eventually kill her.   It would take a while, but it would happen. The witch also suggested the dil that during this time she treated dil with love and tolerance.  This was with the purpose that she would never be blamed for poisoning her.   So the dil did just as this witch told her.  She started putting this herb on mil tea and was extremely nice and loving to her. 
So, the mil started changing and return love to dil.   After some time, dil really loved her mil and went to see the witch and told her she did not want her mil to die. "" Do something to reverse this, she said.  The witch told her to not worry.  That the herb she was putting in the tea was not poisonous and that mil would not die.  She said, Ï wanted you to see how you can win the enemy with kindness.  When you treat someone with love  you will eventually get the same.

Nana, thank you...and thank you for sharing the story...when I first started reading it, I thought...OMG?  Loved the ending, thank you....all one can do, is share they're perspectives from they're own experiences, and hope to help someone else along the way...I'm not always right...but I'm also not here to hurt anyone...I just sometime cannot understsand, why we all can't get along...yano? 

I just cannot believe some of these stories...and how DIL's and MIL's treat each other?  For what?  Life is way to short. 

[1Glitterati]

From Cremebrulle:

Men cannot deal with stress or confrontations..

.


I think that is a major cop out.  I think it's emasculating.  I think it's untrue.  Do you really think men are so weak that they can't deal with emotion?

Men run the military, politics, Fortune 500 companies, etc., etc.,.  I will agree that men are socialized differently and can relate to situations differently than women...but to say they can't handle stress?

That's insulting.

[luise.volta]

Well, I know some guys that statement fits like a "T" but I also know a lot of women who qualify. Hummm...

I'm also guilty of saying..."You know how guys are." Guess I'd better take another look at that generalization (which is probably a nice word for prejudice.)

[Pen]

My DH acts cool and level-headed, but he really has a hard time with confrontation and stress. I don't like it either, but I don't run from it and recover from it sooner than he does. I think DS thrives on a certain kind of confrontation, but he doesn't like personal drama. My dad is pretty self-centered and tunes out when people aren't talking about him.

But, I know women who fit those descriptions perfectly!

[Nana]

Anna, Mominwaiting and Creme:  I am pleased you liked the story.   

I just wanted to add is that I am a newie but I love this site and I feel I have known you for a long time.  You are all so sweet.  I am really enjoying being here.   I wish I had known this site in very tough and sad times I had a couple of years ago with guess who?  yes my dil.  I searched and searched for a site like this and now I dont even know how I bumpled into it.   As I have mentioned things straighten up and Oh do I thank God (miracles do happen) but my heart is with all of you because I have walked in your shoes.  We share the same stories of sadness and despair.  May God Bless you all!     

[cremebrulee]

1Glitterati
From Cremebrulle:
I think that is a major cop out.  I think it's emasculating.  I think it's untrue.  Do you really think men are so weak that they can't deal with emotion?

Men run the military, politics, Fortune 500 companies, etc., etc.,.  I will agree that men are socialized differently and can relate to situations differently than women...but to say they can't handle stress?

That's insulting.

Hi Glitterati
I can certainly understand your feelings to my comment about men not being able to handle stress....it was certainly not meant as an insult....it was a quick comment due to studies our class performed years ago in school....and wrong of me to thow it out there so matter of factly, pretty irresponsible on my part....
allow me to explain if I may...

We did research back then, as it was scientifically proving that men were not only dying quicker then women, but it was also thought they were not dealing with stress well.or as well as women.  It was a prov-en survey conducted by medical researches which stated that this was happening for several reasons...back then, men were subjected to the stigma that it was not  acceptable to show emotion...men had to be tough and strong...and because women are much more emotional creatures, it was proving that women released they're stress a lot better then men, hence, men were developing heart disease and other medical problems due to stress...holding it in, triggering this study because men were dying sooner then women...

It was thought, since back then, men were the bread winners...bill payers....etc....house fixers, yard caretakers etc...they were definitely dealing with stress but suppressing it...and I do remember a big what to do, back then, from physiologists releasing statistics about this, which triggered our study on the subject in school.   

What medical professionals and psychologists tried to do, was to report on the news, talk shows, articles, etc.... encouraging men to show emotion, to tell them, that it was OK to cry...to let out they're anxieties and stress...however, it was then in vain, as men were subjected by society to not project that manly aspect of not showing emotion, it was a big big deal....because they're fathers, were appalled at the idea that men should show emotion and cry...as they were conditioned or ingrained to believe it showed weakness....therefore, it was thought, that men were dying much sooner then women, because they could not handle stress, due to not being able to release it as well as woman....and the long term effects of this was, that men were dying a lot sooner then women, as much as 10 - 15 years sooner.   

While what you say is correct and I again, shouldn't have been generalizing...I didn't think it would upset anyone to make that statement....however, I was wrong and I did...so I do apologize.  I do tend to generalize a lot...and think outloud which isn't good and will offend others...I'm still trying to work on that...

An article on the subject....today...

In today's world men in general still fear showing emotion...they tend to hold it in...and it is proven that women have always been able to multi task much better then most men....and deal with the stress of it all...better then men...however, after looking at all the data, and how stress has affected both men and women over the last 20 to 30 years, one can really start to wonder if their first observations or assumptions about how each gender handles stress. Maybe women do not actually handle it any better than men, or maybe, life as a whole is becoming more stressed now than it ever was. One has to think about this too; with all this new technology that was meant to make our lives easier, the weekly hours of work has not decreased, they have increased. Though everything is being put onto the computer, people can type as much or more than 80 words a minute, and the internet is as fast as ever, our lives still seem to be more packed, hyper and busier than ever.

Now look at it from a family woman's point of view; older values and traditions are still seen clearly in this generation. So, not only is a woman expected to be useful and have a successful career, she has to look after her kids, her husband and the house. It is no wonder that women are starting to see similar numbers in the heart disease column as men. This is why women should be taking a moment, especially if they are feeling extra stressed.

Yes, your statement is true...men do certainly play an effective role in military life, and career wise, it has always been that way...however, in the same, back 20 - 30 years ago, even though men played that major role in society...it was then thought that men could not handle stress as well as women...why?  Because they were overloaded with stress not to mention, they thought it to be unacceptable for men to vocalize they're emotions....and men were actually dying much before women, which triggered the study...which proved that men, could not handle stress factors as well as women...

I can remember the great arguments back then from what we considered macho men, and how appauled they were when all of a sudden, culture tried to tell them they needed to change and express emotion, even tears...that is is OK to cry...and let me tell you, some men didn't take kindly to that suggestion....LOL, however, time and women proved to help men along to understand that it was in fact not only ok to show emotion and cry, but very necessary for a better more effective life healthwise.

If your interested, here is an article from Time Magazine...Men are still dying sooner then women...but there is now different theories on the subject, which I find interesting....

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1827162,00.html

Thank you for pointing this out to me, however, I am sorry you were insulted by my comment....you have helped me, research the subject and learn something...I hope this helps you understand, why I made that comment...

[cremebrulee]

Anna, Mominwaiting and Creme:  I am pleased you liked the story.   

I just wanted to add is that I am a newie but I love this site and I feel I have known you for a long time.  You are all so sweet.  I am really enjoying being here.   I wish I had known this site in very tough and sad times I had a couple of years ago with guess who?  yes my dil.  I searched and searched for a site like this and now I dont even know how I bumpled into it.   As I have mentioned things straighten up and Oh do I thank God (miracles do happen) but my heart is with all of you because I have walked in your shoes.  We share the same stories of sadness and despair.  May God Bless you all!   

I'm smiling Nana, as this post made me realize, once again, how important this site is to all of us...it has certainly helped me in tough times...and awakened me to a constant necessary work in progress and change...welcome, I'm glad your here...the women here are pretty darn special....I can't speak for them, but have myself found, somehow, the more hardships I've experience in life, the stronger I've become...not to mentioned, learned and survived....I've learned that man is a very strong creature and that life is so valuable...b/c it prepares us for what is to come next...and the next and even after that....I used to wonder why man sufferes so....and in my own disillusional logical,    I have come to believe that the hard times we experience are just as important as the good times...everything on the  face of this earth is composed of positive and negative energy for a reason...and I think that reason is...to value and cherish happiness when we have it...however long or short that time is...and to learn not to dweal on the negative, but to identify, that within that negative, there has got to be some thing productive for me personally to learn...sometimes it takes a few minutes, sometimes days, sometimes years...but God willing answers do come when open up our hearts to kindness and love...I can't tell you how many times I've said, "I don't believe it took me that long to learn?" 

Welcome dear lady....nice of you to join in...and another reason I'm smiling is, because you said you searched and searched...and now you found us...if it would not be for Luise, we would not have this site....many of us searched and searched for a long time....

I hope time has healed your problems with DIL...and I'd really like to hear your story when your ready...as I'm sure the others here would to....

God Bless you to, and thank you...
Creme