Fair visitation

[luise.volta]

I think this will always be a slippery slope because of perceptions. Some would never ask for an explanation or even think about it...some would want more of an explanation...some wouldn't accept any explanation and some would argue the validity of all explanations, It can a social-cultural-personal thing. I just loved my mom's, "Because I said so!"

I know it isn't realistic, but wouldn't it be great to be able to say, "Question any of this, and your name gets dropped off the list!"

I once knew a girl named JADE...and she was nice...

[Karenna]

Obviously, frostily retorting, "I don't owe you an explanation!" is going to offend.  No one's arguing that.

However, calmly and pleasantly saying, "No, that won't work for us," is perfectly polite.  Remember, men interact in this way all the time, and no one's feelings are hurt.

In stilltrying2010's case, I would actually recommend not bringing up how long they'll be visiting other family members.  The conversation can go like this:

---------
* st2010  "Hey, we'd like to come visit you for 5 days!"

* mil:  "Sounds good; we'd love to see you!"
---------


Rather than this:

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* st2010:  "Hey, we only have 2 weeks of vacation, and we want to see you for 5 days of it.

* mil: (silence)

* st2010:  "Well, uh, yes, we'll be with my family for the rest of the time.  Eight days, actually.  But it's only because we saw you so recently."

* mil: (silence)

* st2010:  (a little desperately). "We're not favoring my family, I swear!  It's just because we saw you for two weeks.  We like you as much as them.  We just want to be fair.  My mom will have hurt feelings otherwise."

* mil: (starting to wonder what st2010's mom's problem with her is)   "Oh.  Okay."
---------

Which conversation is actually more polite?  Which would you rather be on the receiving end of?

[lancaster lady]

I don't think any Dm/MIL would object to seeing both sets of GP's , if they did , then that's being picky
and unreasonable .
The fact that they wanted to stay with me for any length of time would be wonderful .
Unless there is a history of problems ,if there isn't , what's the problem ?
Everyone gets to see the family , it's a win win situation .

[herbalescapes]

Of course it isn't fair.  Life ain't fair and no matter how fair you try to make it, someone can always spin it another way to feel like they're getting the short end of the stick. The best thing would be not to draw attention to the disparity of number of days.  If someone notices and asks about it, saying that that was what the voices in your head said to do might bring the conversation to a halt.  Expecially if you can manage to drool and bug out your eyes at the same time. 

If the side with less days is complaining, you can just point out that the per-person-visit-days is actually in their favor.  Five days divided by two people is 2.5 visit days per person.  For the 8 days side, as long as there are 4 or more relatives you visit, they are getting less per person.  Now, if the more days side complains, just leave early.

I used to have a very nice jade necklace. 

[Lillycache]

I guess I just find it very difficult to imagine any FOO being offended that they are not getting the exact same amount of days for a visit.  This is something that I would never think to be upset about.  As I said upthread.. a 5 day visit complete with kids would be more than enough for me.... and God-Bless the other GM for putting up with 8 whole days of disruption and noise.  I love my son and GKs very much, but sometimes smaller doses given more often is a much better thing.  So since this is so far out of my rhelm of thinking I guess I erroneously jumped  to the conclusion that the DIL must be  exaggerating or making up problems where they do not exist.  Sorry.   There must really be  MILs that would carry on about this sort of thing after all.  It's just not something that would have crossed my mind..

Also... JADE makes lovely earings too...

[lancaster lady]

P.S.

I have a lovely lavender JADE ring .....

[Lillycache]

And I've heard of some JADE carvings running into the $$millions!   

[Karenna]

It happens even to the nicest MILs, Lillycache.

I have a dear cousin who just became a grandmother four years ago.  She actually has a very good relationship with her DIL.  When the baby was born, my cousin marked visits on her calendar.  At thee end of the year, she was hurt that she only saw the baby for 22 days in her first year of life.  The other grandmother had seen her for something like 42 days.

Sounds unfair, yes?

Well, the 22 days represented ALL of her son's vacation from work that year.  He had gone nowhere else.  He hadn't stayed at home to catch up on projects on his days off.  He hadn't even been to see his wife's family for a year.

The other grandma got more days because the DIL (as a stay-at-home parent) had traveled alone with a colicky baby to visit her family.  She had also asked her mother to stay and help out while she was having surgery, so her husband could save his vacation days for his FOO.

Regrettably, my cousin complained to them about the discrepancy.   Since they felt that they had already gone "above and beyond" to give her time with her grandkid, they were pretty angry.

And the next year, they were *scrupulously* fair - her son spent exactly 12 days with his family, and exactly 12 days with hers.  If the DIL spent any additional time with her own family, they were careful not to tell my cousin.

Eventually, my cousin managed an apology, and they forgave her.  Things are better now.  But it was still a pretty tense year.

[Pooh]

I have a great relationship with my Mother and am not submissive to her wishes, but do offer explainations.  Like she asked me last week if we were coming to a family get-together on Sunday at an Aunt's house.  My response was, "No, we will not make this one because we had already planned a bike outing for the day but we'll be there for the family 4th."  Ok.  I didn't feel the need to explain because I'm submissive (and anyone that knows me would laugh if you someone used that word to describe me!), but just as a common courtesy to my Mother.  I also don't feel guilty about it.

My husband also does his Mother the same and doesn't just say "Nope, can't make it."  So not all men are that cut and dry.  He also does it to be respectful and courteous.

Now, I do agree if you have someone that you have shown common courtesy to in the past and they did complain about it, lay a guilt trip or try to change your mind, I probably would take the "Nope, can't make it" route and not try to explain the next time knowing it wouldn't do any good.

[pam1]

I never not gave an explanation (really short although) until in law problems.  If I couldn't make it to anyone's party, I usually said the truth "we already had plans, sorry!" same with my FOO.  So I did that with my in laws too and they would want to know what plans.  I'd tell them.  They'd want to know when I made the plans.  I'd tell them.  They would want to know why I wouldn't cancel my plans.  I was silent.  They would then go to DH to tell him, as if he didn't already know and question him.  And try to get him to change his mind and then mine.  There were also plenty of guilt trips thrown in along the way, "Pam considers her friends more important than us!"  This went on for years so eventually I heard the JADE concept and just started saying "I'm sorry, we can't make it."  Or rather DH started saying it once I heard the he deals with his family, you deal with yours.

One of our trying to mend the relationship conversations included personal growth I had to do -- it included canceling my prior plans and commitments to prove to DHs FOO something.  I still don't know what they wanted me to prove!

[Pooh]

I think that was the right thing to do for your situation Pam.  You tried the courteous route and it wasn't accepted back with the same courteous manner.  I would have stopped too trying to offer an explaination and went with that.  That's when I think the JADE comes in.

That's why I was reserving my answer on the OP until she could offer if they would be receptive or not.  If not, then I'm with the others that said to just say, "We're coming for 5 days."  If they have in the past shown themselves to be receptive and courteous, then I think telling them their plans with a "Since we just saw you for two weeks..." goes a long way with no hurt feelings.

[Pen]

How thoughtful of the OP to consider the feelings of her ILs. I hope those involved appreciate it!

Some of us ILs who really do get the short end of the short end cannot speak up for fear of sounding whiney & nitpicky. Rock, meet hard place. This thread has it a nerve w/me - my DS's FOO controls his vacation time, where it's spent & with whom it's spent.

DS spoke up once, so now we get part of every other Christmas Day before they head off for the annual fabulous trip w/ILs that uses up all DS's vacation time & travel budget.

[lancaster lady]

now Pen , that is definitely unfair visitation .

I know that I will never get a Christmas with my DS and family , so I don't bother asking .
I have just accepted second place and learned to be happy with it , no point in me complaining
look where it got me last time ....without any visitation at all .

[Doe]

I have a right to wear a string bikini, but that doesn't make it less hard on the eyes... right? 

lol!

[herbalescapes]

Have most of us missed the point of the original concern?  I know I jumped in with assuming the FOOs are/might complain about unfairness, but rereading the OP, is it that DH and DW are not in synch on what's fair?  That can be a major problem that JADE won't solve (unless dh is offering a whole lotta the jewelry sort...)

Anyway, if DH is crying unfair because his FOO gets less days, then that calls for serious discussion.  Is it that he really thinks it's unfair or just imagines his FOO will think it's unfair?  Very different scenarios with different solutions.  As long as DH and DW are on the same page, then everyone else's complaints are just nuisances.  I love Karenna's story because it highlights how important it is to get all the facts and not put your own assumptions/motivations/conclusions on someone else.  I know I've stuck my foot in my mouth on more than one occasion because I assumed someone thought or felt or was motivated same as me. 

Good Luck and I hope however your trip goes, it is lots of fun.