March 29, 2024, 11:09:09 PM

News:

"Welcome to WiseWomenUnite.com -- When adult children marry and leave home, life can sometimes get more complex instead of simpler.  Being a mother-in-law or daughter-in-law can be tough.  How do we extend love and support to our mothers-in-law, adult children, daughters-in-law, sons-in-law, and grandchildren without interfering?  What do we do when there are communication problems?  How can we ask for help when we need it without being a burden?  And how do our family members feel about these issues?  We invite you to join our free forum, read some posts... and when you're ready...share your challenges and wisdom."


Need some support here...

Started by tryingmybest, June 09, 2012, 02:26:24 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

herbalescapes

I forgot to make my comment on a 50-50 marriage.  A marriage can be 50-50 without every aspect being 50-50.  Look at parenthood.  The conception may be 50-50 (no wisecracks!) but the pregnancy and labor/delivery are decidedly one-sided.  As you raise your kids, one parent may be more of the disciplinarian or give more help with homework, or chauffeur more, or volunteer in the extracurriculars more, but that doesn't mean both parents aren't equally involved.

In a marriage, one spouse might do more housework or earn more income or make more financial decisions.  That doesn't mean the marriage isn't 50-50.  It could be that some of the DILs take charge of holidays/vacations/visiting while the DSs decide on where to send the kids to school or how to spend a tax refund or decide how to invest money.  The marriage may be 50-50 overall, but not if you focus just on how the spouses interact with the two sides of the family.  Or it could be that the DS, unbeknownst to his FOO,  had an affair or gambled away their lifesavings or ran up an astronomical cc bill so he pretty much has to go along with whatever his wife says on pretty much everything as penance.

luise.volta

My Take: Marriage is 100%/100%...both doing their best...which may change from moment to moment. (As in, sometimes my best may look like someone else's worst.) Sending love...
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

tryingmybest

Herbal I think you are 100% correct that no one knows what goes on in a marriage, and many times problems blamed on  a DIL come straight from DS. The dynamic that both amuses me and infuriates me is this idea we will be rewarded by contact with AC and GKs and punished by "time out" from the privilege of their presence. My DS did that to me once, clearly on orders from FDIL. I listened to his lecture quietly, and when he ended it with I need to not talk to you, or see you for a while" , I simply said " I think that might do both of us a lot of good ", and hung up the phone. I truly think he expected blubbering "apologies" and promises to "behave". What he got was the cut off he requested from his FOO. it lasted until HE reached out a month later, and if he hadn't we would still be cut off. I will not allow anyone to use emotional abuse and manipulation to control me. I never did it to him, and I sure as heck will not allow him to do it to me. 8)

Lillycache

Quote from: tryingmybest on June 12, 2012, 04:54:23 AM
Herbal I think you are 100% correct that no one knows what goes on in a marriage, and many times problems blamed on  a DIL come straight from DS. The dynamic that both amuses me and infuriates me is this idea we will be rewarded by contact with AC and GKs and punished by "time out" from the privilege of their presence. My DS did that to me once, clearly on orders from FDIL. I listened to his lecture quietly, and when he ended it with I need to not talk to you, or see you for a while" , I simply said " I think that might do both of us a lot of good ", and hung up the phone. I truly think he expected blubbering "apologies" and promises to "behave". What he got was the cut off he requested from his FOO. it lasted until HE reached out a month later, and if he hadn't we would still be cut off. I will not allow anyone to use emotional abuse and manipulation to control me. I never did it to him, and I sure as heck will not allow him to do it to me. 8)

My DIL did not allow me to see my GKs for over a year.  She also expected me to cry, beg, apologize, and lay prostate at her door for the privilege.  She even told me as much........ AFTER she rubbed in the fact of how I missed my youngest GSs 1st birthday bash, and Older GSs first communion.   She told me that she waited for me to call and beg and asked her what I could do to be allowed to see the kids.   I won't let ANYONE do that to me.  I told her that she would never be able to hold those kids over my head like Damocles sword.   The end result was that now DS is "allowed" to bring the kids to see me once in a while.  Not exactly the kind of grandparenting I had in mind, but it will do. 

DivaGirlDIL

My question is what happen to cause it?  Something happened.  I know my ILs like to blame just me not saying this is your case.  But they don't place any blame on themselves.  I know I have my faults I wish they saw theirs.

DivaGirlDIL

Sorry if that came off rude new and don't know much background.

luise.volta

My take is that sometimes something happens and sometimes it is deeper and much more pathological than that. We can wish others would see things differently and act differently and we are still in the domain of wishes. Beyond serious personal issues, if that sounds better than pathology...we have personalities and personality clashes...plus differing perspectives and expectations. It can be pretty intense and sometimes becomes unresolvable. When it is just parent and adult child with no one else involved...the relationship can spin out. Each one of us has our own set of complexities and they are ever-changing. Sending love...
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

DivaGirlDIL

Quote from: luise.volta on June 12, 2012, 06:46:01 AM
My take is that sometimes something happens and sometimes it is deeper and much more pathological than that. We can wish others would see things differently and act differently and we are still in the domain of wishes. Beyond serious personal issues, if that sounds better than pathology...we have personalities and personality clashes...plus differing perspectives and expectations. It can be pretty intense and sometimes becomes unresolvable. When it is just parent and adult child with no one else involved...the relationship can spin out. Each one of us has our own set of complexities and they are ever-changing. Sending love...

That is so very true.  My mother and I are very different.  We even parent different.  Drives my mother crazy but I don't care.  It drives her crazy but I really don't care.  My mother was very controlling and didn't embrass me being SW.  I won't do that to DD.
We only know what we here and see but sometimes it goes deeper then that. 

jdtm

QuoteMy question is what happen to cause it?

My situation is relatively the same as that of Lillycache.  Everyone asked me the same question - after all, we must have done something wrong.  I suspect we did although I never knew what it was.  Perhaps I frowned when I was not supposed to, or perhaps I spoke to someone I was not supposed to, or perhaps I - who knows.  I also was criticized for not attending our granddaughter's birthday party - of course, no one asked me nor was I given a date or time or place (it was held at a special center in a nearby city and to this day, I do not know where).  Incidents as this happened again and again.  She wanted her husband's family and friends and neighbours out of her life.  Eventually, there was a divorce (although she left our son and abandoned her children).  Our now ex-DIL tends to have people in her life until ....  She has no real friends and her immediate family tolerates her but even they don't understand why they, too, are ostracized.  It just does not make sense.

I believe this is because of a warped "thinking" system - some refer to as a mental health disorder or personality disorder.  I used to believe that everyone had a conscience as I do, but I now believe that one's conscience is similar to one's athletic or linguistic or artistic or etc. abilities - some have a large amount and some have a negligible amount.  I aslo believe that empathy is far rarer than we would like to think.  The luck of the gene pool - so to say.

So, sometimes there is no reason.  I like to say that "one cannot reason with one who can not reason".  Unless you have lived it, it is very difficult to grasp this punishing and humiliating and demeaning way of life.  We put up with this to see our grandchildren and son/daughter, but eventually, we reach our limits.  DivaGirlDIL - I don't think you are rude just lucky enough not to have lived this hell.  And hopefully, you never will need to "understand" as this is so difficult to "understand" - even for me.

pam1

Thought provoking conversation!

In my case, the problems were long before me and my time.  I was just new and it was easier for a group to gang up on the new member.  One of the red flags I should have noticed was the "tests" I was given when I first met my in laws.  In even talking to some of the female in laws (before I pulled away from them) they actually voiced that I "didn't seem to care to prove myself to them" as if it were a problem. 

That kind of mind set is not something I could ever change.  I'm not sure why these folks feel so entitled to have grown adults prove to them (what?  I still don't know!.) I also think by just observing them they operate out of fear and insecurity.  Another thing I could never change.
People throw rocks at things that shine - Taylor Swift

Pooh

Quote from: Lillycache on June 12, 2012, 05:37:46 AM
AFTER she rubbed in the fact of how I missed my youngest GSs 1st birthday bash, and Older GSs first communion.

I would have shrugged and said, "You missed a free cruise, a free beach house for a week, a diamond necklace birthday present and a massage and manicure for Mother's Day."  Guess we both missed out.

Yeah, yeah...I know...I'm evil
We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us. -
Joseph Campbell

luise.volta

I get we sure gotta' learn 'When to Hold 'Em and When To Fold 'Em.' Sending love...
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. Dalai Lama

NewMama

I think a lot of people who've never had the misfortune of being estranged from their adult children think the parents must've done something wrong. There certainly are some situations involving parents who did 'earn' that estrangement (abuse, addictions, serious mental instability) but I think the vast majority fall in another category where differences of opinion or personalities get blown out of proportion or just don't mesh well. A lot of people are willing to accept certain quirks in their FOO but the exact same quirk in the ILs may not go over well. Also, when you're given a list of conditions or do's & don'ts (outside basic common courtesy), I really think you're being set up to fail and then the other person can go "See, it's HER fault things are like this" when one of the conditions is breached. When you step into a situation where you have to prove yourself to be worthy from the get-go, it's pretty much doomed (whether you're a DIL or MIL). Same thing if your DIL or MIL brings existing insecurity or jealousy issues to the table, it probably won't end well.

I think when you're stuck in a situation where the other person is playing games, the smart thing to do is take yourself out of the game. There's no way you can win. IMHO, you ladies who refused to jump through hoops or beg did the right thing.

Lillycache

Quote from: NewMama on June 13, 2012, 05:23:34 AM
I think a lot of people who've never had the misfortune of being estranged from their adult children think the parents must've done something wrong. There certainly are some situations involving parents who did 'earn' that estrangement (abuse, addictions, serious mental instability) but I think the vast majority fall in another category where differences of opinion or personalities get blown out of proportion or just don't mesh well. A lot of people are willing to accept certain quirks in their FOO but the exact same quirk in the ILs may not go over well. Also, when you're given a list of conditions or do's & don'ts (outside basic common courtesy), I really think you're being set up to fail and then the other person can go "See, it's HER fault things are like this" when one of the conditions is breached. When you step into a situation where you have to prove yourself to be worthy from the get-go, it's pretty much doomed (whether you're a DIL or MIL). Same thing if your DIL or MIL brings existing insecurity or jealousy issues to the table, it probably won't end well.

I think when you're stuck in a situation where the other person is playing games, the smart thing to do is take yourself out of the game. There's no way you can win. IMHO, you ladies who refused to jump through hoops or beg did the right thing.

Excellent post.  It's really hard to "play the game" when one is not told the rules.   Imagine someone trying to play football without having a clue what to do or having protective padding.  Soon you would be toast.   In my case, I was blissfully ignorant  for 10 years not realizing I was doing or saying those horrible vile things I have been accused of.   Of course, no one has told me what the horrible vile things were.   So you have to sit and scratch your head and go over every single conversation of 10 years to try to figure it out.   I have stopped that, as at this point I am done caring.   I suspect that I never really did anything horrible and vile, as I certainly would remember it.   There was no way I was going to win that crowd over.   I didn't even realize I was being tested.

Footloose

June 13, 2012, 12:24:32 PM #29 Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 02:20:40 PM by pam1
Quote from: Lillycache on June 13, 2012, 06:04:52 AM
Quote from: NewMama on June 13, 2012, 05:23:34 AM
I think a lot of people who've never had the misfortune of being estranged from their adult children think the parents must've done something wrong. There certainly are some situations involving parents who did 'earn' that estrangement (abuse, addictions, serious mental instability) but I think the vast majority fall in another category where differences of opinion or personalities get blown out of proportion or just don't mesh well. A lot of people are willing to accept certain quirks in their FOO but the exact same quirk in the ILs may not go over well. Also, when you're given a list of conditions or do's & don'ts (outside basic common courtesy), I really think you're being set up to fail and then the other person can go "See, it's HER fault things are like this" when one of the conditions is breached. When you step into a situation where you have to prove yourself to be worthy from the get-go, it's pretty much doomed (whether you're a DIL or MIL). Same thing if your DIL or MIL brings existing insecurity or jealousy issues to the table, it probably won't end well.

I think when you're stuck in a situation where the other person is playing games, the smart thing to do is take yourself out of the game. There's no way you can win. IMHO, you ladies who refused to jump through hoops or beg did the right thing.

Excellent post.  It's really hard to "play the game" when one is not told the rules.   Imagine someone trying to play football without having a clue what to do or having protective padding.  Soon you would be toast.   In my case, I was blissfully ignorant  for 10 years not realizing I was doing or saying those horrible vile things I have been accused of.   Of course, no one has told me what the horrible vile things were.   So you have to sit and scratch your head and go over every single conversation of 10 years to try to figure it out.   I have stopped that, as at this point I am done caring.   I suspect that I never really did anything horrible and vile, as I certainly would remember it.   There was no way I was going to win that crowd over.   I didn't even realize I was being tested.
[/i]
-----------------------
This is EXACTLY what is happening to me.  Her family has never accepted me as I am so different in personality.  It's as bad as getting Democrats and Republicans to agree on anything.  Good people make up both sides but we can see by history that they will NEVER get along.  I am a diehard survivor and optimist.  This, all by itself gets me into trouble with her and her FOO who are needy, complaining doom-saying folk! I find simple pleasures and am at most times a very happy girl. Some crabby ppl hate this and think it is a put on.  Attitude is Latitude! "How can she be happy?"   All I can say is, "Just WATCH me!"

While I remain as flexible as Gumby!

I so agree w/ Louise in that pathology is the reason for most of these situations.  Someone is broken and unwilling to make the situation better.  It takes time and energy and they are simply too busy to think about it.  I am the lowest of their priories in relationships and it shows.

My poor DIL does have a good heart but she had a very hard childhood with WAY too much control from her parents.  She trusts no one and I'm not even sure she fully trusts my son but he is the caregiver and she is fully dependent upon him for money and emotional support.  She is needy and passive aggressive.  She will laugh about something to your face and then let it come up and stew in her mind later.  This "download" process turns my well intended behavior or remarks into the unacceptable.

I wish I could enroll her into a conflict management class!  My goodness!  If you have a problem with someone, before taking it to the extreme, talk about it!  Give feedback to the behavior as soon as it happens or very shortly after.  Be open and let the perceived offender know that a problem actually exists.  They can be like me and be absolutely clueless as to your sensitivities.  I lost my crystal ball and I cannot read your mind!

Another possible reason for time out could also be jealousy by the DIL and/or FOO. I spend quality time with the kids and my Son and my DIL. DIL cannot bear to miss out on a single poopie diaper, let alone some adventure that involves the kids or my son.  She is not at all interested in adventure and takes change or the unknown very hard.  When I had to pay medical bills for my pound puppy, after the petcare insurance denied the claim as prexisting, my son showed his jealousy by remarking that that money could have gone to him and his family.  Can you believe that?!  NONE of anyone's business how I spend my money, except DH.  I also believe he feels slighted as i now do more for his children then he and his wife.  in HIS opinion, of course.  Reality dictates otherwise but reality is out of their reach at times.  Mine too, it seems, as far as unmet expectations of our relationship go. 

In looking back, I failed the test too, my fellow offenders.  DIL asked after the wedding what I was going to buy my son for Father's Day.  I joked and said, well, he's not MY father.  NOT the answer they were fishing for as it turns out!  LOL!!!  I took way too much abuse from them in the way they continued to control me and I let it happen.  If ANYONE deserved to call a time out or punish poor behavior and rudeness, it should have been ME....but I kept my mouth shut, walked gingerly and took my crumbs.  Bad treatment was better than no contact.  I am the mom, the wiser p, take the high road because I want so to see my GKs. I should be patient and take it. Took my crumbs for years and years but no more!

Oh well, I only know how to be me and that's good enough for me and my true loved ones!

Hugs!  <3
......this too shall pass!

p.s.  i often think of the libation and liberation in the movie, Fried Green Tomatoes when I feel our strength  growing, read Poohs statements and funny ideas. "TAWANDA!!!!"