She's Just Not That Into You....

[pam1]

I found out years later that a comment I made during our wedding planning about *my* family has had MIL stewing and holding a grudge for several years.  Why she took it to mean anything about her I will never know lol.  And she wasn't even the one who told me, one of her daughters did!  I assume she's still stewing about it because since I became aware I noticed the digs she would get in about it.  There's nothing I can do unless she brings it up to me and lets me explain (although I doubt the explanation would help her very much at this point, it seems she let it take on a life of it's own and wouldn't be able to hear me.)

So I agree, if people can communicate openly and honestly it would solve a lot of problems.  A lady told me some people just can't, it's like wearing gloves and tying your shoes for some people.  They just can't. 

[Pen]

I've said it before: IMO, if someone has an agenda to not accept another person, they will take any and all things out of context as an excuse for their agenda. If they cleared things up they'd have no reason for their feelings.

[pam1]

I've said it before: IMO, if someone has an agenda to not accept another person, they will take any and all things out of context as an excuse for their agenda. If they cleared things up they'd have no reason for their feelings.

It totally makes sense the way you put it, Pen.  I just have a hard time wrapping my mind around this kind of stuff.

[artlady]

Yes if you knew what you were up against , why  ( in our case SIL) the person has just totally turned a 180 degree, what you can do to fix it , etc etc but when you deal with someone who puts emotions under the rug , is not one to talk about feelings to anyone , i don't ever seeing things getting resolved. We would love to have a sit down open , adult discusson ( they r adults now at 31 and 36) as to how all of us can work together , better or what ever to keep this little family we have together.  I"m not use to a grudge holder but we now have one in the SIL , he has grudges against his own family for very very long time . I don't understand grudges , I just couldn't do it , that is too much to hold in I'd have to talk about it . Life is too short and too many peopled say or do things , then something happens and those folks never had the chance to correct the bad feelings and have to live with the pain for the rest of their lives. so I do hope none of these people have to lose someone before they have a chance to make amends.

[Lillycache]

I've said it before: IMO, if someone has an agenda to not accept another person, they will take any and all things out of context as an excuse for their agenda. If they cleared things up they'd have no reason for their feelings.

It totally makes sense the way you put it, Pen.  I just have a hard time wrapping my mind around this kind of stuff.

In order for honest and productive discussions to take place BOTH parties need a vested interest in resolving the situation.  Perhaps there is a better chance early on in the marriage for this to take place as DIL is still interested in pleasing her new husband.   However in my case.. DIL/DS have been married 12 years and have 3 kids.  He's not going anywhere as she sees it.  She has no desire to talk or negotiate.  She knows she holds the keys to the kids and in some respect my son.  We can only enter into these talks from a position of weakness not strength as the thought of losing our sons and gks is too much.    I think we can eventually get to the point of being willing to walk away,  but DIL can get there in a heartbeat.

[jdtm]

Yes if you knew what you were up against , why  ( in our case SIL) the person has just totally turned a 180 degree, what you can do to fix it , etc etc but when you deal with someone who puts emotions under the rug , is not one to talk about feelings to anyone , i don't ever seeing things getting resolved.

It takes two sides to "fix" it; not one.  In our case, we were totally wrong (about things we did not do, did not say, ere - did not even think) and there was going to be no discussion, only ways to get us out of our son's and DIL's lives (luckily, we were still allowed, or should I say we paid, to see the grandchildren - free babysitting and financial gifts).  It was her agenda from the day of their wedding.  We were totally blindsided.  I never knew people existed like her and I never dreamed my family could be so divided.  I'm a lot wiser now but I paid a big price for my wisdom.

[Lillycache]

I don't think my DIL had an agenda since before the wedding.  I think she seriously wanted to have a good relationship with me.  However, I believe I was held to unreasonable standards.  Anything I said or did was discussed with her family and I came out lacking.  This is why I wish there had been a discussion after the first few of my "sins".   Instead she let me fumble along blindly for 10 years making mistake after mistake and reaming my son over every one of my indiscretions.  I was just being myself and she was keeping a log book.   It didn't help that she comes from a large matriarcal family with 4 sisters, a mother, a grandma and lots of aunties to discuss me with and to find all my "ulterior motives" and indiscretions.   It does tick me off a bit knowing now that I was such a topic.     I never had a chance.. or if I did it was ONE chance and when I blew that  it was the beginning of the end.

[pam1]

I don't think my DIL had an agenda since before the wedding.  I think she seriously wanted to have a good relationship with me.  However, I believe I was held to unreasonable standards.  Anything I said or did was discussed with her family and I came out lacking.  This is why I wish there had been a discussion after the first few of my "sins".   Instead she let me fumble along blindly for 10 years making mistake after mistake and reaming my son over every one of my indiscretions.  I was just being myself and she was keeping a log book.   It didn't help that she comes from a large matriarcal family with 4 sisters, a mother, a grandma and lots of aunties to discuss me with and to find all my "ulterior motives" and indiscretions.   It does tick me off a bit knowing now that I was such a topic.     I never had a chance.. or if I did it was ONE chance and when I blew that  it was the beginning of the end.

Now this is really interesting, Lillycache.  My MIL comes from a very large matriarchial family who talk/fight among each other frequently.  I've noticed the men are sidelined and their preferences/opinions aren't even heard and they are expected to just go along with what the women want. 

Sometimes I've wondered if this turned into a problem for MIL, being able to relate to women who are not in this clique.  I know she doesn't get along with her DILs, doesn't keep friends but has a close bond with her female family members.  Nothing is up for negotiation with her because they have their strict rules that you have to fit into, there is no compromise. 

[Lillycache]

I don't think my DIL had an agenda since before the wedding.  I think she seriously wanted to have a good relationship with me.  However, I believe I was held to unreasonable standards.  Anything I said or did was discussed with her family and I came out lacking.  This is why I wish there had been a discussion after the first few of my "sins".   Instead she let me fumble along blindly for 10 years making mistake after mistake and reaming my son over every one of my indiscretions.  I was just being myself and she was keeping a log book.   It didn't help that she comes from a large matriarcal family with 4 sisters, a mother, a grandma and lots of aunties to discuss me with and to find all my "ulterior motives" and indiscretions.   It does tick me off a bit knowing now that I was such a topic.     I never had a chance.. or if I did it was ONE chance and when I blew that  it was the beginning of the end.

Now this is really interesting, Lillycache.  My MIL comes from a very large matriarchial family who talk/fight among each other frequently.  I've noticed the men are sidelined and their preferences/opinions aren't even heard and they are expected to just go along with what the women want. 

Sometimes I've wondered if this turned into a problem for MIL, being able to relate to women who are not in this clique.  I know she doesn't get along with her DILs, doesn't keep friends but has a close bond with her female family members.  Nothing is up for negotiation with her because they have their strict rules that you have to fit into, there is no compromise.

This is exactly how it is with her FOO as my son describes it.  Her father retreats with him to the family room to watch sports.  The women band together and gossip.  I imagine I was the topic many times.     I don't want to mention the ethnic group they belong to as that would be generalizing but my present husband's late wife had the same  type of matriarchal family.  They were the same ethnicity of my DIL.  The women RULE... that's it.. the men retreat together and stay out of the way.  At least that's how he described it to me.   No one... or at least an outside female was allowed into the clique.  They would never be accepted.   Men are accepted..  not women.  It is interesting isn't it?   

[artlady]

Hey jdtm I think SIL had an agenda that started at the reception as he is seen as a totally different person than we knew and loved before the wedding for 4 years. Since it is early in the marriage and now with a 3 month old baby there might be hope for things to change. They got married in 10/10  so it is still new and they r not kids at 31 and 36. Our family is very small so it is hard not to notice them missing or his attitude by family members . Letting go of hope is hard but I can't change anyone but me . Take care

[Pooh]

Oooh good thread.  So much here.  Let's see.  I never expected to be DIL's BFF.  I had hoped we would become close and could enjoy shopping trips, lunches, etc.  I had hoped she would want to come and enjoy some holidays with us.  So when that didn't pan out, which is ok, then my next hope would be that an occasional visit, call would happen, drop by on the occasional holiday.   Even if it was just out of a sense of family.  I would have hoped my DS would have wanted to and would have kept the contact.  Maybe he doesn't.  Maybe he is just fine and dandy not seeing any of us.

I don't think DIL started out with an agenda.  I think she was so used to getting her way with her family, most of the time, that her expectations were that we would be the same.  I think she was very insecure and when being a Mom to my then High School Son interfered with her plans, she took it as a personal attack.  So I do think by the time the wedding rolled around, she had an agenda.  Get through the wedding, then I don't have to ever have anything to do with these people again.  He will have my family and will not need them.  And guess what, she's right.  They don't need us.  They have her family to do everything for them and with them, so they really don't need us.

I guess the bottom line with me is that I didn't meet her expectations either.  I wasn't the MIL she was hoping for.  She wasn't the DIL I was hoping for.  The difference is that I can accept that, embrace that we are different and move on in the relationship.  I guess they can't. 

[artlady]

This is a very good thread. I hear you Pooh , very good thoughts and ideas. I guess I hoped things would be different and maybe I could be a motherly figure to him since his mom died 12 years ago , but didn't want to replace her but be a very good MIL. He enjoyed the party while it lasted but once it was legal I think his agenda was to cut DD from her family as he had cut himself from his own family even before his mother died. So family is not his cup of tea and I don't think we realized that prior to for 4 years , he had us all fooled , we had great times and really enjoyed him as he was relaxed, had fun etvc. WEll not anymore , wedding day was the end of all of that. So we will have to accept it as it is just don't want to lose the DD over it all but if she has to do what he says to keep the peace we very well might .

[Lillycache]

I guess the bottom line with me is that I didn't meet her expectations either.  I wasn't the MIL she was hoping for.  She wasn't the DIL I was hoping for.  The difference is that I can accept that, embrace that we are different and move on in the relationship.  I guess they can't

I guess this is true for me to, except I thought she WAS the DIL I was hoping for.  She is smart and a great mother and very competant in business and money matters.   I was really happy my son married her.  Things were fine in my opinion.. until the frost started forming.

[artlady]

Lillycache   the same here , we couldn't have been happier as he was smart, well educated, well established and being he was 4 years older we felt he was past his wild days ( now I don't know if he ever had any ) . So we were very pleased and looked forward to enjoying this new  union. Well he showed his true colors at the reception and that has been  the  way it has been ever since almost 2 years ago. So what do we do now ? Trying to take it as it is but very hard .

[Pen]

I've said it before: IMO, if someone has an agenda to not accept another person, they will take any and all things out of context as an excuse for their agenda. If they cleared things up they'd have no reason for their feelings.

It totally makes sense the way you put it, Pen.  I just have a hard time wrapping my mind around this kind of stuff.

That's because you're an ethical, kind person, Pam I've had a little training from SM. It took me a few years to figure it out 'cos I don't operate that way either.