She's Just Not That Into You....

[Vasilisa]

Sounds as though it wasn't so much that she wasn't into you as that she wasn't into relationships with women. Some girls are like that as soon as the hormones kick in.

[StarTrekWifey]

This could be the problem with my MIL and I. I'm the one who's 'just not that into her'. She used to want to be BFF, like her daughter and her are. But I have my own Mom, 2 Sisters & 3 Nieces - Our own group of girlies. I was always viewed as the 'outsider' as I didn't want to participate in 'girl activies' like painting my nails, doing my make-up, shopping, talking about boys and such. I'm totally a tom-boy and I love sports, farm work, getting dirty and anything that my Hubby is in to (hunting, fishing, camping). I think my MIL feels like I should want or need to be her BFF, but honestly I don't care enough to build that relationship, because she has already hurt me so badly in the past 3 years. At this point we won't have any kind of relationship at all and that is coming from my Hubby, not me.

[tryingmybest]

Well guess what I'm just not that into my DIL either. The same personality traits that set me teeth on edge during the dating period are still in full force today. I have tried until I'm blue in the face to treat them both equally, until it dawned on me ..why? She, like you make it really clear, I"m an in-law, not her family and she could really care less. So why do I only deal with them as a unit? spend exactly the same amount for Christmas and Birthday gifts, try to make that extra effort?
Bleech, if her attitude didn't cinch it, your post sealed it. I will deal with MY FAMILY now and concentrate my efforts there.
The sad thing is DS is waking up to reality, a day late sure but it's coming.

[Lillycache]

The reality is that most of the contact I have had over the with DS and the GKs has been orchestrated by DIL.  SHE has been the social planner.  All of the Christmas gifts, birthday and Mothers Day cards and gift were the result of her, despite the fact that she has hated doing it.   NOW that she is pretty much out of the picture for me and DS is in charge of making the effort... guess what..  NO Christmas gift, no birthday card... and I am sure there will be no recognition on Mothers Day.  Perhaps a brief phone call.. but no card... no little token (like a potted petunia) Nothing.  I have no illusions about my son.  He is self centered and selfish.  So the fact remains.. without DIL, I loose out on a lot.  Of course this is not about monetary and material things... but you have to admit it's nice to know that DS would take the time to remember you with a token, no matter how small.   Most times... having a son is nothing like having a daughter.  Women are much more thoughtful and men don't see the big deal.  I know my son, and he feels that just by showing up with the kids every couple of months is all the effort he needs to make.  He thinks phoning me every 3 or 4 weeks is sufficient.  I guess I should be happy for what I have because I know many here don't even get that.. and I am... but I cannot help but feel I am usually an afterthought.  Am I making sense?  Or coming off materialistic and whiney.... which is not my intent.

[Pen]

Lilly, that's the dilemma we face. If we don't speak up our needs aren't known & we're wimpy martyrs. If we do speak up we're materialistic & demanding. I haven't figured out which is better, so I continue to be a wimp and cry a lot which is not my usual personality at all - I'm the girl who speaks up about unfairness & injustice in most other situations! Unequal pay for equal work? I'm there! Unfair budget cuts that affect DDD? Hand me a picket sign! DS not acknowledging my big life event? Oh, that's OK, I know you've got a lot going on, blah blah blah.

TMB, what's funny in my situation is that the first holiday after DIL said she hated us (see my boring previous posts for bg) I asked DS what she might like for a gift. He actually told us she didn't deserve anything from us & not to spend our hard-earned money on her. Of course I couldn't have her sitting at Christmas w/o a gift to open from us now, could I? Awwk-waard! So I took the high road & spent on her what I spent on DS & DD. Now I've set a precedent and she thinks we're suckers.

But seriously, other than not seeing DS at Christmas so as not to have that awkward gift/no gift moment, what could I have done? I hate this weird relationship stuff. Christmas (& all the other events) used to be fun. Now I dread them.

In light of DS/DIL's most recent brush off, I feel with every passing event they are letting us know we are being shoved farther and farther into the background. It really, really hurts...I didn't do a thing to cause this (according to DIL) but I feel as if I'm being punished for having been a loving, involved, supportive mom. Sometimes I wish I could have those years (not to mention the money I spent) back, lol. To paraphrase Dr. Seuss, "Oh the things I could have done!"

[Lillycache]

It's not just the Holiday or special event recognition that we miss out on.  It's the day to day interaction that the family.. particularly the mother of the DIL has.  My DIL made a point to rub it in my face that she talks to her mom daily... sometimes several times.  My son calls me ever 3-4 weeks.  These calls are superficial.  I don't hear about what the kids are doing on a day to day basis.. I might hear about a major event.. but not the things mom of DIL gets to be a part of.  Like how GS did on his spelling test, or how he hit a homer in little league.  I don't hear about my GDs tummyache  or how she sold the most cookies in Girl Scouts.  ( I'm making these things up because I have no idea what I've missed).   These are things FAMILY know about..  and I'm not family according to DIL.  My Son is oblivious to my needs and to my hurt.   If I tell him, I will only be another problem or obligation in his eyes.  Maybe he doesn't even know about all the things his MIL gets to hear about and I don't.   We are often told to accept our role and get a life.   I HAVE a life..  I have a career, I have hobbies, I have causes and interests. (I too have been an activist and marched in DC several times for women's causes)  I think I am a pretty interesting woman with a lot to offer, I have a lot  to impart on the GKs..  If only it was valued and wanted.    I have sat back and waited for it to be requested... out of concern of being seen intrusive..  Now I'm relegated to the "unimportant" list.   

[Pen]

Exactly! Love your post. "Get a life." Ha, love it.

Re: the things we "unimportant" MILs/GPs miss out on - when we eventually do get together it's like casual acquaintances rather than close-knit family. When we miss out on the fun, silly little things as well as the important big things, it changes the tone of our relationship. My DIL's FOO is involved just about 24/7, so of course it feels easier and less awkward when they get together compared to our rare communications/gatherings, which perpetuates our fading more & more into the background.

Lilly, I'm so sorry this is happening to you too. Wish I had a magic wand 

[pam1]

The reality is that most of the contact I have had over the with DS and the GKs has been orchestrated by DIL.  SHE has been the social planner.  All of the Christmas gifts, birthday and Mothers Day cards and gift were the result of her, despite the fact that she has hated doing it.   NOW that she is pretty much out of the picture for me and DS is in charge of making the effort... guess what..  NO Christmas gift, no birthday card... and I am sure there will be no recognition on Mothers Day.  Perhaps a brief phone call.. but no card... no little token (like a potted petunia) Nothing.  I have no illusions about my son.  He is self centered and selfish.  So the fact remains.. without DIL, I loose out on a lot.  Of course this is not about monetary and material things... but you have to admit it's nice to know that DS would take the time to remember you with a token, no matter how small.   Most times... having a son is nothing like having a daughter.  Women are much more thoughtful and men don't see the big deal.  I know my son, and he feels that just by showing up with the kids every couple of months is all the effort he needs to make.  He thinks phoning me every 3 or 4 weeks is sufficient.  I guess I should be happy for what I have because I know many here don't even get that.. and I am... but I cannot help but feel I am usually an afterthought.  Am I making sense?  Or coming off materialistic and whiney.... which is not my intent.

You're making a lot of sense to me.  It's what happened in my situation, except for I didn't really harbor ill feelings toward MIL until she started acting poorly towards me and DD. 

I've read this from the DIL point of view many times and not just on WWU.  DIL starts out trying and then stops because she is hurt by something and/or it is too stressful.  She doesn't always stop because of her MIL, sometimes it's a marital issue.  Sometimes the husband takes advantage of her.  You say your DS is self-centered and that you don't have any illusions about him (which is such a good thing!)  He could be displaying self-centered traits in his marriage and that's what the real problem is.  Unfortunately you are collateral damage.

Another thought, my MIL would frequently say stuff like she knows that my husband, her son is forgetful and is not a social person. However, she would assume that he is not forgetful with myself and my own FOO, assume that he is cutting rugs out with my FOO.  Not so.  The same traits carried over into our marriage.  It just shows in a different way now.

[artlady]

It is so  easy to identify with these posts and being in the background is so hard . I can relate to the feeling of it being a casual time when together vs feeling like a close knit family that it use to be before the ( sil in our case ) situations . I can even relate to feeling guilty for being a loving supportive mom to DD and that might be the cause of conflict now . Who knows but I'm getting my life back even if moving at a snail's pace I'm getting there until the next shoe falls. Do hope to have more time with DD and GS in the future.

[Pen]

Good points, Pam. I can see where that would carry over. Assumptions are dangerous things.

My DS, OTOH, does go out of his way for the ILs. He researches vacation spots, dining options, purchases, gifts. How do I know? Somehow it seems to come up in conversation, funny huh? I happen to take pride in the fact that I raised a thoughtful DS who accepts his ILs and can fit in even though they are very different from his FOO. I just wish that same consideration was given us by DS as well as DIL (who apparently was raised to shun those who are different.)

It just occurred to me that we often judge people based on silly parameters. I remember my folks saying disparaging things about people who made a recipe a certain way or enjoyed a particular sport they didn't see the point of. When I married DH, & his wonderful FOO did those horrible things (lol) I learned that my Ps were being snooty and ridiculous.

We MILs/DILs may find that we are being judged on silly, ridiculous things we have no idea of! I had a boss many years ago whose mother told him women who wear dangly earrings are immoral. Guess who wore dangly earrings to work one day? Oh yeah, I was the immoral hussy from then on. At least he eventually told me, lol.

[Lillycache]

We MILs/DILs may find that we are being judged on silly, ridiculous things we have no idea of!

Let me tell you one that fits this bill.   In reading the things I have done over the years... one thing my DIL wrote about was when I redecorated my living room and bought a HUGE expensive matching dog bed.  My dog didn't want anything to do with it and wouldn't even go near it.   It was at least 4 feet across and like a big furry pillow.  I made the comment that the next time GS spent the night, we could move it into my room and he could sleep on it.  I thought it made good sense as he would be close to us and he couldn't fall out and get hurt.  All he could do was roll on the floor.  She didn't react, but OMG... her posting was that I totally offended her by insinuating her son was a dog!    I had absolutely no idea I had done something wrong.  Yet I was judged as being insensitive and degrading to my GS.  As a kid, I would think it would have been kind of fun to spend the night on a big pillow at grandmas.. How can you forsee something like this?  How can you know how to act and what to say if things like this are considered a problem?

[Doe]

Oh no you di'ent!!  LOL!

When DS and then FDIL got a dog, we called her our granddoggy.

I don't think I need to explain how much of a mistake that was with FDIL.  She is pretty literal and lacking the sense of humor and play our family has. 

I don't think you can forsee something like that.  You just do your best to live a good life and shrug a lot.

[Lillycache]

Oh no you di'ent!!  LOL!

When DS and then FDIL got a dog, we called her our granddoggy.

I don't think I need to explain how much of a mistake that was with FDIL.  She is pretty literal and lacking the sense of humor and play our family has. 

I don't think you can forsee something like that.  You just do your best to live a good life and shrug a lot.

I know.. how horrible of me.   I remember when my son was an infant and we visited my DHs granny in Alabama.  My son slept in a HUGE dresser drawer with a pad in it.  NEVER did I think my Granny in law thought my son was a pair of pair of underwear!  lol!!   

At anyrate... she said that her son would spend the night at my house again when she saw pigs flying outside her bedroom window!   Guess what?   He never did again.  So we can pay huge prices for something that innocent.

[herbalescapes]

I'm wondering why the older woman assumed it was your responsibility to say hello when you entered the room.  Why didn't she say hello to you when you entered?  In some cultures, it would have been rude to say a casual hello until you were properly introduced.  If one of you were shy or very introverted (not the same as shy), a casual hello could have been very stressful.  This is a perfect example of where we jump to conclusions and assume a rudeness instead of just a difference.  For all that woman knew, you had a severe stutter that you found embarrassing so didn't like to talk.  And reporting you to management was a rather extreme reaction.  Did the company have a policy that said employees had to say hello to each other?  Did the policy dictate who was responsible for initiating the hello?  If I had been the manager, I would have told her - couched nicely - not to be so sensitive. 

I've made this plug before (tho I swear I do not make a commission) that the works of Deborah Tannen give some good insight on how differing  communication styles can lead us to making moral judgements in the wrong places. 

I know the the world is ever increasingly turning into couch potatoes, but really, jumping to conclusions should not be an acceptable form of exercise.  How often does someone post a problem here and the responses will be along the lines of "Well, I don't think your MIL/DIL was out of line.  That's not necessarily rude.  Maybe she finds your method out of place."  Different does not mean bad.  Different does not mean rude.  Different just means, well, different.

[NewMama]

Different does not mean bad.  Different does not mean rude.  Different just means, well, different.

I wish more people understood that! My mom initially took the choices we made for our baby as an attack on her choices when I was a baby, because they were very different. It took her a while to come around that we were making the best choices for us and our baby, and now she's pretty supportive. My MIL however, was initially supportive but when things didn't play out the same way they did when she was raising DH, her attitude changed.

I can't remember if it was this thread or another one, but the point was made that sometimes we focus on stupid little things or comments, when the issue is actually bigger. A small comment gets blown way out of proportion, because it's easy to pick on that than face the real source of the dysfunction. I fall into that trap myself - getting annoyed at my MIL because she keeps changing my son's hair to the way she likes it (which I know is stupid ) when in reality the big issue is that she puts down my choices as a mom and that she wants to have the 'mom' role in his life rather than a grandmotherly one.