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Why can't MILs and DILs get along?

Started by Vasilisa, April 28, 2012, 01:31:02 PM

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Vasilisa

Quote from: constantmargaret on April 29, 2012, 12:51:06 PM
Quote from: Vasilisa on April 29, 2012, 10:48:21 AM
I'm here to learn from the other side. Some situations can't be worked out and I think in those cases a cut-off, while tragic, is the least damaging option for all involved.

Many of the posters here are dealing with this exact "option." 

I am curious to learn from your side specifically what situations can't be worked out. Under what specific circumstances is a tragic cut-off warranted? Are you talking about a mutual decision or a unilateral cut-off? How do you quantify how much damage this option does to all involved? 

I ask these questions because I don't think you can answer them. I agree with what everyone is saying here, generalities don't really answer anything. The only real answer is...it depends. It depends on the situation and the personalities involved. The situation one person claims can't be worked out, another person doesn't even see as a problem. This site is great because people here are individuals. Some are timid, some bold. Some are tender, some tough. Some are serious, some try to inject humor. People post their most painful heartaches and others respond with sincere insight and sometimes advice, hugs, support and caring.  I have found that everyone here has treated me as an individual, not a demographic. That's what I like about this group.

It's not about labels here, or "sides" as you put it.  Yes we are MILs and DILs and DMs and DDs.... but first we are people. We each have a story that cannot satisfactorily be reduced down to to generalities.

I think you're not taking this as it was meant, and I'm reading a combative tone that I don't think is warranted.

There are common problems that frequently come with this sort of relationship. I'm trying to figure out what causes them because forewarned is forearmed and hearing what people on the other side have to say gives needed perspective.  You can object to them as "generalities", but generalities are useful as long as one doesn't let them become limiting. If you don't find them useful, that's all right, but don't object if someone else does.

"Sides" is useful shorthand for the roles we all have in relationships. Acknowledging that we can end up in roles or on sides even when we didn't want to is not saying that we are not individuals.

Yes, I can answer your questions. At least I could give you the answers that apply to me. I'm not in the habit of telling other adults what to do, especially in family relationships, and I'm not going to tell another person what I think she can and can't take. I will tell you this, though: No one has the right to demand contact with me except my underage child and my husband, and I do not demand contact from anybody else. And although I can't quantify how much damage is done to another by having or not having a relationship, I will say that I don't see how people who don't like each other and can't or won't get along benefit at all from forcing themselves to see each other on a regular basis. People talk about the necessity of boundaries. Fine, what sort of boundaries? It's okay for me to decide I'm only going to be miserable four times a year instead of once a month? It's okay for me to say I'll eat someone else's abuse only on major holidays instead of every weekend? But it's wrong for me to say no, I'm not going to be treated this way at all, ever, because I deserve better and there is no purpose to all this unhappiness?

I'm not going to answer questions like that for someone else. Would you try to answer them for me?

Vasilisa

Quote from: forever spring on April 29, 2012, 01:27:01 PM
Believe me, I have asked myself how things could go so pear-shaped in a relationship with my DIL.
She was polite before she married my DS, but I was never myself when I was with her and I'm sure she wasn't at her ease either. |We never had a hearty laugh together. I was always accommodating, gave lots of presents etc. and tried to woo her. Neither my DH nor I could ever fully understand why our son had chosen her. We paid towards their wedding etc. but it was always an uphill struggle and my DH feared that it wouldn't last. We did everything for the sake of our DS, believing him to have found his source of happiness.
Then the first child was born and things became difficult because they didn't seem to be able to cope even though her FOO was always at her beck and call. When the second child was on the way, I decided to come and stay near them. My son had expressly asked me to. I left DH who works in a different country, so was on my own. Then the whole tragedy started . I believe, she never really wanted me there and only went with it because her DH had asked me. The older GC was very awkward with me (he was only a 2 ½), so quite understandable that he reacted like this. I was like a stranger.
DIL tried to include me in the beginning but I didn't want to be in the house when her DH was there, I wanted the couple to have time together and not with DM/MIL, so I always left soon after he came. Not sure whether this signalled to her that I didn't want to be with her. The problems became worse when she accused me of not doing things right and not being a great help anyway. Towards the end of my stay in the house near them, I spent a lot of time on my own waiting to be called but she hardly ever asked me to help any more. She only asked for my help when she knew I was doing something else and would have to decline.
We had become unable to talk to each other, communication had broken down completely. I have never been in a situation such as this in my life.  I felt really lost and unable to deal with my situation or try to improve it. Everything I ever knew about communicating with people had gone out of the window and I didn't know myself any more. This was so strange.
Then I decided to move back to DH because it didn't make much sense to be at a loose end near them and DH alone in the place where he worked.
The problem from the start was that we didn't have clear boundaries. I wasn't assertive enough (I'm just not wired that way) and maybe even too servile so that she couldn't respect me. I think the lack of respect was the worst thing. I admit I'm easily hurt, I'm not  tough that way and maybe I took some things that weren't meant to hurt me too seriously?
My DS left her five months ago which shows that the marriage was on the rocks when I was there, even though I always thought they could work things out and even if they were not exactly happy, their relationship was durable. Since then I have spent a lot of time thinking about how she did see me and what I did wrong.  I think I became a MIL from hell because I was too quiet and accepting and maybe gave off vibes (without wanting to) of disapproving with everything which must have been difficult for her.
The fact that my lovely GC will not grow up in a stable family pains me very much because my DS grew up in a 2 parent home. I don't know what made him leave. I do hope that xDIl will be happy with somebody else and so will DS and above all that my GC will not suffer too much from this situation, after all they didn't chose it.
I would like to establish some kind of relationship with my xDIL but how, I don't know – any idea?

WHOOPS a long post - you seem to have struck a chord, Vasilisa!

Wow. There are some things you wrote that makes me think of a situation I allowed myself to be talked into with my in-laws. I could give you my own interpretation of what might have happened on your DILs end, but perhaps I would be reading too much of myself into it.

I'm very, very sorry for your situation and that your son's marriage broke up. I hate to see that, too.

Pen

(BTW Vasilisa, I notice you never got our usual welcome message. I'm so sorry.)

Welcome! If you haven't already done so, please read the pink-highlighted topics under Open Me First on the home page. We ask this of all new members to make sure the site is a good fit :)

Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

Beth 2011

I have created 2 different posts for this subject and each time I have deleted them when I tried to post.  Maybe that was a good thing.  Pen, you had a good point when you said we all come here to try to understand better about what we are going through and to know that we are not alone is such an incredible relief.  To know that others here are going through similar situations even though they all are different.  I have been able to look at my situation with my DS and DIL from a different point of view knowing that I and the FOO just wanted to be apart of their lives not controll them by any means.  We tried many, many times.  DIL did not want to try and made it very clear and DS seems to have followed her lead.  My DS must feel the same way because there is no contact.  It takes 2 to tango.   But I have learned to say that it is OK.  He is an adult and can behave as he wishes.  Now I feel that I would rather have their anger and respect than be a door mat and have them have nothing but contempt for me.  I believe distancing ourselves from them is the best thing that could have happened.  I feel better and don't feel like a cloud is constantly over my head.  I will tell you this, DS has been married before and had other relationships and we FOO always got along fine with his ex and girlfriends.  Vasalisa, we can choose our friends not our family, it is not so much about sides as it is about coping with whatever we have been given in life.       

constantmargaret

You said in your first post, "Obviously this is colored by my own experience and I assume others will see things from a different angle. Does anyone else have any thoughts?" This led me to believe it was safe to express my opinion.

So I did because I do see things from a different angle. I thought that was ok. I'm not combative. I don't even have a DIL yet. The one I'm getting in August is quite lovely. I'm not forewarned, or forearmed. I don't even have a side. I was just expressing my opinion, like many others, that generalities (in general  :D) aren't helpful to me in understanding relationship problems.

You also said, " ....and we are almost all touchy and defensive, quick to think we are being judged." I agree with you here.

You then respond to my questions with this, "I'm not going to answer questions like that for someone else. Would you try to answer them for me?" This only supports what I was trying to say.... Nobody else can give you generalized answers for your specific situation without knowing the history behind it. If you find generalities useful, that's fine. If you want to post a sociological treatise here on MIL/DIL relationships, that's fine too. But if you come here specifically asking for thoughts, you might get some you don't agree with. Nobody here knows your story, because you have only posted in generalities and alluded to the problems that brought you to this site...which I thought was a site for sharing and trying to come to understanding and acceptance, not debate. "Take what you want and leave the rest."

I apologize if I have offended you or anyone else on this board.

Caio

Vasilisa

Quote from: constantmargaret on April 29, 2012, 03:58:43 PM
You said in your first post, "Obviously this is colored by my own experience and I assume others will see things from a different angle. Does anyone else have any thoughts?" This led me to believe it was safe to express my opinion.

So I did because I do see things from a different angle. I thought that was ok. I'm not combative. I don't even have a DIL yet. The one I'm getting in August is quite lovely. I'm not forewarned, or forearmed. I don't even have a side. I was just expressing my opinion, like many others, that generalities (in general  :D) aren't helpful to me in understanding relationship problems.

You also said, " ....and we are almost all touchy and defensive, quick to think we are being judged." I agree with you here.

You then respond to my questions with this, "I'm not going to answer questions like that for someone else. Would you try to answer them for me?" This only supports what I was trying to say.... Nobody else can give you generalized answers for your specific situation without knowing the history behind it. If you find generalities useful, that's fine. If you want to post a sociological treatise here on MIL/DIL relationships, that's fine too. But if you come here specifically asking for thoughts, you might get some you don't agree with. Nobody here knows your story, because you have only posted in generalities and alluded to the problems that brought you to this site...which I thought was a site for sharing and trying to come to understanding and acceptance, not debate. "Take what you want and leave the rest."

I apologize if I have offended you or anyone else on this board.

Caio

Of course you are free to express your opinion, but it seemed as though you were saying that my attempt to look at possible common relationship dynamics doesn't even have value. It is my opinion that it does.

The subject was not why some in-laws cut each other off, but why there are special difficulties in the relationship. I'm trying to look at this from both sides (sorry, can't think of another way to express it) and not make my own personal situation the focus.

Vasilisa

Constantmargaret, I looked at my last post to you again and see why you thought I was being touchy. It was poorly worded. I meant to ask a general (because, again, I like generalities) rhetorical question about how often and how much someone should allow herself to be mistreated as opposed to refusing all mistreatment. This is because I truly find it astonishing that so many people apparently think bad treatment should just be sucked up, not because anyone expects me to endure abuse during holidays. But that's another topic, I guess. Sorry.

Vasilisa

Quote from: Beth 2011 on April 29, 2012, 03:25:48 PM
I have created 2 different posts for this subject and each time I have deleted them when I tried to post.  Maybe that was a good thing.  Pen, you had a good point when you said we all come here to try to understand better about what we are going through and to know that we are not alone is such an incredible relief.  To know that others here are going through similar situations even though they all are different.  I have been able to look at my situation with my DS and DIL from a different point of view knowing that I and the FOO just wanted to be apart of their lives not controll them by any means.  We tried many, many times.  DIL did not want to try and made it very clear and DS seems to have followed her lead.  My DS must feel the same way because there is no contact.  It takes 2 to tango.   But I have learned to say that it is OK.  He is an adult and can behave as he wishes.  Now I feel that I would rather have their anger and respect than be a door mat and have them have nothing but contempt for me.  I believe distancing ourselves from them is the best thing that could have happened.  I feel better and don't feel like a cloud is constantly over my head.  I will tell you this, DS has been married before and had other relationships and we FOO always got along fine with his ex and girlfriends.  Vasalisa, we can choose our friends not our family, it is not so much about sides as it is about coping with whatever we have been given in life.       

Again, when I say "sides" I just mean which half of the relationship you're coming from. I don't mean it as two sides in a war or anything like that.

I am of the opinion that distance is an excellent thing. It allows us to clear our heads, figure out what happened, and think about what we did to contribute to the problem. If someone is being abusive, often the only way s/he will take that seriously is by being refused contact until s/he talks it over and does something proactive to work it out. Sometimes the cut off ends up being permanent because one or both sides refuses to even discuss things, but I still think that's better than going on in a situation that benefits no one and could even be damaging another generation.

Pen

Vasalisa, I understand your point. However, when you're talking to mothers about distancing themselves from their offspring, even if the offspring happens to be adults, you're going to get some feedback. Motherhood is a powerful thing. Do not expect us all to go lightly into the night.

Since you've had such prolific input on the boards, how about sharing your story? What are you dealing with?
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

Beth 2011

Vasilisa,

You said something about damaging another generation.  If what you are going through is that traumatic, you may need to talk with a professional in order to move forward.

Vasilisa

Quote from: Pen on April 29, 2012, 06:14:03 PM
Vasalisa, I understand your point. However, when you're talking to mothers about distancing themselves from their offspring, even if the offspring happens to be adults, you're going to get some feedback. Motherhood is a powerful thing. Do not expect us all to go lightly into the night.

Since you've had such prolific input on the boards, how about sharing your story? What are you dealing with?

Sorry, I didn't mean to be prolific so early -- and I don't mean to suggest anyone should go gentle into that good night. Crap. I didn't mean a lot of things.

Oh, what the hey. I don't feel ready to share my entire story, but I'll give a few details. DH and I, when we met, bonded over having crappy families with whom we were mostly distant. I was so swept away at having found my soul mate that I didn't think through what it would be like to be married to someone whose family was at least as screwed up as mine, how I would actually feel about that, how lonely it could end up being, and whether or not I really wanted to bring children into such a situation. Guess I got caught in a dumb moment. Got married. Thought I could help fix things between my husband and his parents, who were mostly estranged from each other -- they saw each other at Christmas and maybe called each other on their birthdays, that was pretty much it. His mother and I developed a cordial if not warm relationship and I tried really hard to defer to her and give her the respect that I thought she deserved as my husband's mother. She treated me fine, too, no complaints here except that the apparent lack of concern for her son or interest in seeing him was strange.

She really wanted to be a grandmother. Thought she'd be happy when I became pregnant, but she just said she "wasn't going to get excited yet" in case something happened, then avoided me completely till I was well into my second trimester  -- no calls, no emails, nothing. Then suddenly showed up telling us not to buy anything because she already had it all. And that was our relationship from then on, disappearing acts, emotional distance, and a whole lot of shopping. Then some really nasty things started creeping in, but that mostly happened after I started implementing some basic boundaries.

There is more than one way you can cut someone out of your life. One way you all know: Your loved one tells you not to contact him or her anymore. The other way is more by default. Nothing is ever official, definite, or absolute, but you're out and you know it. Here's this person you want to accept you, and she flat-out ignores you when you try to talk to her, cuts you off, brushes past you without a look, won't answer your e-mails, sneers at you when you try to share things that are important to you. You find out she gossips about you and doesn't even bother to hide it. The only reason she has any contact with you at all is because you have something (or someone) she wants.

I thought having a baby would bring the family together -- stupid me. It didn't. It actually made it obvious that they didn't care about their own son, much less me. They wanted that baby, yeah, but not in any way I could understand. Years ago I had to take a class on recognizing people who preyed on children, and one thing struck me: There can be a lot of surface similarities between good, normal people who enjoy the company of children in a healthy way and predators who want to seduce them for selfish reasons, but the biggest difference right from the beginning is that the good, normal people respect the parents and the predators don't. They undermine the parents and want to separate the child from them. This is true of my in-laws, although as far as I know they are not perverts. There is more than one kind of predator.

When it started to affect my health, I finally cut off my MIL. Thought I was probably a really horrible person to do it, but I felt so bad I had to do something. Basically told her that if she wanted a relationship with her grandchild, she needed to first repair the relationship with her son. This was followed by months of silence, a reconciliation attempt that went horribly wrong, then --  oh, it's basically been a year marked by a whole lot of nothing interspersed with squalid little attempts to get what she wants without having to face the problems. I feel sorry for her, really really really WANT to be nice to her, but I just can't go on with how things were before, and the truth is that neither she nor DH want anything to do with each other. If their relationship isn't important to each other, I don't see why it should be to me, or why my DD should be thrust into it when she doesn't care about that set of relatives anyway. Yes, technically I've cut the whole family off, but what I really think I've done is forced them to face the fact that we were already estranged.

So there you have it. And sorry I ruffled anyone's feathers -- that was truly not my intention.

Doe

Vasilisa,

You knew going in to the marriage that the MIL issue would be tough - maybe you had unrealistic expectations of what you could 'fix'?    My DIL seemed to carry a cartoon image of me when she dealt with me, one that had nothing to do with who I am.  She later told me to leave her alone and stop talking to her so I did. Easier to do that than deal with reality, I guess.

I think when people get married, they should  just be nice to the inlaws.  Don't try to win them over or figure them out or fix them.   Just be nice and polite and set definitely boundaries that are held to.

Vasilisa

Quote from: Doe on April 30, 2012, 07:55:01 AM
Vasilisa,

You knew going in to the marriage that the MIL issue would be tough - maybe you had unrealistic expectations of what you could 'fix'?    My DIL seemed to carry a cartoon image of me when she dealt with me, one that had nothing to do with who I am.  She later told me to leave her alone and stop talking to her so I did. Easier to do that than deal with reality, I guess.

I think when people get married, they should  just be nice to the inlaws.  Don't try to win them over or figure them out or fix them.   Just be nice and polite and set definitely boundaries that are held to.

You're right, of course. I had Hallmark family movie expectations going into an NC-17 situation, but even if it had been a more normal family, I couldn't go in thinking I could change the dynamic. I ended up taking my husband's place in his mother's life and they were both happy to let me do so. I wish I'd realized earlier what was happening and gently pointed it out to both of them, then told them I wasn't going to do it anymore and stepped out without drama. Instead, I saved up my growing resentment and hurt till I reached the breaking point, exploded, and said things that may have been true but probably deepened the wound. I wish I could think of a way to apologize to my MIL for my part without being sucked back into the old situation. The original problem was between her and her son and he's the one who's going to have to reach out to her, or she to him, but I wish I could let her know that I would support this and that even if we can never be friends, we can still treat each other with respect. However, DH is happy not having her in his life.

herbalescapes

I can tell you exactly why the MIL/DIL relationship turns contentious (at least in 99 out of every 100 times it does turn contentious):  Not enough people ask for then follow my advice.  Just think if life were like a giant game of Simon Says but instead of Simon it was Herbal.  Someone says or does something you don't like or find hurtful.  You ask "Why did/didn't you XYZ?"  They say, "Well, I asked Herbal and she said XYZ."  You reply, "Oh, you asked Herbal?"  They reply, "Yeah, I asked Herbal."  You conclude, "Well, I don't understand it, but if Herbal said XYZ that must be the right thing."  No need for resentments or animosity. 

Seriously, I think Norman Rockwell has a lot to answer for.  Bad MIL/DIL relationships have been around forever, but so have bad spousal relationships, parent-child relationships, sibling relationships (look at the first siblings - Cain and Abel, hardly poster children for brotherly love), neighbor relationships, etc. 

A bit ago I read a book The Way We Never Were by Stephanie Coontz about the history of the family.  We have a lot of assumptions about how things used to be or are supposed to be that just aren't true.  Leave It To Beaver and Ozzie and Harriet weren't documentaries.  Instead of focusing how things "should be" or how we want them to be, we have to deal with the situation we have.  We can't change anyone else, so we have to focus on what we can do to make our own relationships better. 

I always cringe a bit when someone comments that MILs have the most to lose.  Well, if a DIL is involved in a hurtful MIL/DIL relationship - whether she's a DIL from Hell or the MIL is from Hell or the DS/DH is a schmuck or whatever - that hurtful MIL/DIL relationship usually spills over into the husband-wife relationship.  A lot of bad MIL/DIL relationships contribute to divorce.  While a MIL may risk loosing her DS/GC, the DIL risks loosing her DH and we shouldn't minimize that, especially when we look at the fallout on the children.  I wish the solutions was as simple as my first paragraph.

forever spring

Quote from: herbalescapes on April 30, 2012, 08:53:40 AM
- that hurtful MIL/DIL relationship usually spills over into the husband-wife relationship.  A lot of bad MIL/DIL relationships contribute to divorce.  While a MIL may risk loosing her DS/GC, the DIL risks loosing her DH and we shouldn't minimize that, especially when we look at the fallout on the children. 

O dear, I hope I'm not guilty of the rift between DS and DIL, that would be bad as ...
and never intended. HONESTLY!