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now how to handle this new situation

Started by artlady, April 17, 2012, 04:15:16 PM

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artlady

Pam 1 we apologized at the reception, Dh tried to talk to him and open the door, we have done everyting we can but stand on our head naked to resolve it but it will not ( as he is the type that doesn't do emotions wells from DD's comments). He is still not on good terms with only brother over a college incident that happened 15 years ago and they live in the same town now . Blames his dad for many things in his life. I"m not looking for things I want it to be pleasant. DD has wanted the other bedrooms fixed but he has chosen to use those rooms for his stuff  not furniture. If he puts beds in them then there is no reason that his family or hers might not come to stay or he might have to ask them to spend the night . He avoids family functions as weddings , funerals she has to meet us or go alone . WE want a relationship with him and had a great one before the wedding but now that has been long gone . WE are just stumped as to how to change it or if it will , something happend prior to the mascot as he didn't want Dh to dance with DD, ( the song leading up to the mascot) poor DH had just had quadruple emergency by pass exactly 4 weeks prior to wedding , he was in extreme pain the whole day no one knew but me as he couldn't take pain pills and function  all day and here the SIL refused him the dance so he had to pry DD away to get her on the dance floor in his weakend state .DH was so worried the night before the surgery he wouldn't make it to walk her down the isle and didn't want any of his health problems to ruin her day.  I don't want to look for p]problems , the problems are there and we are doing all we can to support her , him and the new gs , want nothing more than all to be happy even if it means we take a big ]back seat not to interfere or cause her to be in a battle with him over us . The fact is she wants us there and he doesn't . So how to deal with that is the problem. thanks and hugs

artlady

Pam I should have said we have tried more than the wedding to resolve it but he is very hard to talk to on the subject , as we want more than anything to resolve it . He won't talk about it and gets bent out of shape when we try. I"m not the only one that has seen the change , gotten the cold shoulder from him since the wedding , if it was just me and DH then i might have to re-adjust t0 Say we need to look at us, but he has treated all family and friends of DD;s family the same since . Like all have said he is the one has a issues and we are beating ourselves up by it , too many things I've left out that would explain better but just too much to type . OK thanks again , I'm getting better and know that things will be what they will be, but don't look for him to go back to old self as past issues he has had within his own family have been long standing and never resolved.

Scoop

Oh Artlady.  I have so much to say to you!

1 - Please remember that if your DH 'faked it' for the wedding day, and didn't show that he was in pain, then no one knew he was in pain.  When they say there's no reality, only perception, that's what they mean.  You and DH knew the reality, but because people didn't SEE it, it didn't happen.  They probably all thought he was a trooper. 

2 - So ... the groom didn't want there to be a 'father - daughter' dance at his wedding.  And your DH 'cut in' and took the bride from the groom's arms.  Sorry Artlady, but "them's fighting words".  It may seem like a normal thing to you, to have a father/daughter dance at a wedding, but the GROOM didn't want it and your DH forced his hand.  I honestly can't blame him for having residual anger.  You may not realize it, but you may have ruined his wedding day.  How quickly would we expect a woman to recover from that?  And now, he's guarding his child jealously.  Maybe he's afraid you're going to run rough-shod over his desires again.  You can't really blame him for that.

3 - The crying it out thing.  You were SO worried about that.  But look, it turned out for the best didn't it?  Now baby and Mama are sleeping more and are happier.  You should accept that maybe DD and SIL know what they're doing and know what's best for their little family.

Now, as for traveling to see them for Mother's Day.  This is your DD's first Mother's Day, I think THAT needs to be honoured, so she gets to pick what happens this year.  If you can't make the trip to see her, well then you can't make it, but you'll be thinking of her.  Then you can do your own thing and she can do her own thing.

If your SIL is cold, let him be cold.  You only have to be civil with him.  And really, if he doesn't want a close relationship with you, and you keep pushing for one, then that's running rough-shod over his desires too.  I think in this case, you're going to have to leave him be and let him approach you on his own terms.  Be polite and that's it.  Don't ignore him, but don't trouble yourself over his reactions to you either.  That's HIS problem, not yours.

Good luck.

Doe

Quote from: artlady on April 18, 2012, 06:25:57 PM
WE want a relationship with him and had a great one before the wedding but now that has been long gone .

I don't understand why you want a relationship with a man who is a awful as you say he is.  Maybe you want a relationship with some man that you wish existed? 

If you look back over all the things you've written about this man, you'll see what I'm talking about.  All those negatives feelings actually exist in the real world and I can't imagine that your SIL can't sense them.    I'm beginning to sympathize with him a little since he can't seem to do anything right in your eyes.

elsieshaye

Artlady,  for what it's worth, I'm not a fan of people staying at my place either.  I have no spare beds at all, and three hotels within walking distance, so I always direct people there.  Your SIL may not be as social or as warm towards you as you'd like, but that doesn't mean he's not a good husband or that he doesn't treat your daughter well. KWIM?
This too shall pass.  All is well.

Ruth

Scoop I thought you had a wonderful grasp on this and excellent feedback.  I comprehend that you are not a person, Artlady, who is easy to take no for an answer.  Frankly, neither am I.  Some people do better with this.  I relate to this because it is so so so very similar to my own DS, and all the unproductive years I spent trying to 'win' my way into his affections, to coerce him into confiding in me what was wrong with him, how can I make amends, etc.  Ruth has had a very hard row to hoe here, Artlady, because it has forced me to accept that there are things in life I cannot make happen, no matter how badly I want it.  You may possibly never get this reconciled with your SIL.  Some how or other, you are going to have to come to terms with it and 1) forgive yourself and your husband if you inadvertently said or did something to estrange him, and 2) accept that this is just the way it is and all the rules have now changed.  You are no longer your DD best friend and confidant.  She keeps trying to communicate this to you, but you are unwilling to listen.  She wants to run her own show, she wants her husband to be in the drivers seat in this relationship, for good or evil it is irrelevant, she gets to choose. 

You have therefore only one recourse.  You will have to learn to tolerate pain for a season, as long as it takes.  You will have to scream into a pillow.  You will have to tolerate not seeing this baby as much as you would like, and to let DD and SIL make the moves as far as inviting, setting up holidays, etc.  You can send cards, you can send an email about 1 x per wk, you can pray and pray and pray. 

I think if you read my posts you know that I am not hard on anybody.  I have deep compassion and I know the hurt all too well.  I've just been around this block long enough to know that the fastest and surest way to get a cut off is to refuse to take no for an answer.  Your SIL may be one of those 'one strike you're out' kind of people.  You have a strong personality, and he has a strong personality, and you are like oil and water.  Your DD is not strong issued, so she is trying to soothe everyone.  My DS is also 'one strike' guy, but these people can actually shift on you.  If you pull back and respect their boundaries, and be patient, time can begin to heal some of the wounds and they may inch back toward you.  But you may rest assured, they will do it only on their own terms and in their own time.  And they can wait you out on this.  as my DS once said to me (and nearly killed me) 'you need a relationship with me, I don't need one with you'.  I thought he was being cruel, but in his way he was just stating to me what was to him a logical fact.

Ruth

and by the way, will somebody PLEASE tell me what in the heck is this mascot thing??  I thought this was football games?  I mean, maybe I'm raised in a barn, but I never heard of such a thing.  and also, did DH really and truly want to get up on the dance floor while reeling from angina, and do a dance?  I don't get this either.  I am having trouble getting my head around this wedding thing.

Sorry ARtlady!!!  I've got to get out of the house more it seems!

artlady

Scoop-
1. Yes DH was a real trooper that day.
2. Let me clarify the confusion . There had already been the Bride /groom and father /daughter dance ( didn't do any others as he didn't want to have to dance with his stepmom or have dd dance with his dad, but he wanted to dance with me , but planner said no as that would offend step mom). So cake cut, toasts, etc  DH knew the song to cue him to get her on the dance floor so mascot could tap in to dance with her. Bridesmaids had a dance /skit to follow. So this was to start off the partying of the reception. We wanted SIL school mascot but they couldn't come. No my DH would never never have insisted on a father daughter dance if SIL was against it . Yes I"m so glad the "sleep training " worked and I did find out on the last visit more about how she was doing it but when she first told me how she was going to do it , I was concerned when she said the " doctor told them not to let him cry more than an hour" at 9 weeks old, wouldn't you be a bit concerned ? DD modified that part so I was relived to hear that .

Doe,
WE care about this SIL, he was so much fun before the wedding , we lots of things together( went to college football games , shopped, dinner out , etc) . He was so very close to DH, they shared funny emails, texts, phone calls, he looked to DH for advice and answers, they really enjoyed cooking out together swapping recipes etc  . So this is just a 180, we know the kind of person he can be and we loved the one we use to know , can't or don't understand where he went , why and how to find him again. He is a very smart person, an excellent provider, I hope a good husband and a good daddy. Now that he has her and the baby , he wants no family from either side , nor does he need them, so we are at a lose as how to keep a relationship with the DD and Gs when the SIL wants nothing to do with families.

Ruth
Thanks for your words of encouragement. I've always had it hard as far as being so super sensitive and a big giver of my heart. My mother told me at 18 ( she was the same so she wanted to protect me ) that I was going to have a hard time "because you give way more to others than you will ever get back from them, so your feelings are going to be hurt alto if you don't realize that early in life" Here I am today still doing what my mother told me to work on. I'm a fixer , want everyone happy ahead of my own feelings ( I"ll hurt before i let anyone i love hurt). I just know how much family means to DD and this is going to be hard for her as she has never distance or had to distance herself from her family. Like the counselor told me she is either in denial or she doesn't see it , either way she will have to find her own way , mom will have to just hurt and let it happen the way is best for them. It is hard as to do . OK mascot was from Duke University, it was a suprise to get the  party part going , Duke University Hospital is the reason she was born , a miracle birth and that I"m living today, plus some family went to Duke , so it was a celebration of her life on her specail day, tried to get his there but they never ever responded, WE thought it would be fun , surprised and everyone loved it , except one person . WE will never know why but he let it be known to several . WE have forgiven ourselves , we never intended to hurt anyone's feelings, I thought it was a sweet gesture to honor DD, she was the only child I could have thanks to Duke Hosp. She is a huge Duke Basketball fan because of it her history with duke . Now is that

CrystalBall

Hang in there.  Your kindness and eager to please nature is simply shrewdly taken advantage of by this guy.  Trust yourself that if he seems rude and cold, he is rude and cold.  Don't bother over analyzing what you should say or do to make it better.  He'll just find a new list of irritating things you do that need improvement.  Apologize?   Oh, no.  Can't see anything requiring apology unless he wants to apologize to you.  Yep, he doesn't want you to visit.  I suppose as a senior age woman you can tell when all signals are of a Do Not Darken My Door theme. Male jealousy can blindside you and often the source of mixed up family background where affectionate mother daughter bond must be broken at all cost.  Any theory that you were adding to your family soon problematic as the most ordinary things are threatening to these men. They weren't valued by Mom and Dad so they need one hundred percent of their wife's attention and resent her family because their bond is "showing him up" My opinion of course.  But, hang in there.  No matter how much his behavior goads you, try to say nothing to your daughter of your distress over the behaviors.  Let the spotlight shine on him in all his glory as he wants grist to tell his wife you are such a problem not supporting their relationship and is goading you.  Keep visiting.  Create the loving bond with your Grandson you know well how to achieve from your relationship with your daughter.  Let time pass until that little Grandchild is full of exuberant joy because Grandma is coming.  He'll start to wonder why his Dad is acting so miserable and sullen. There is a small thaw when these men can mature and realize the benefit of their children having the love and affection they were unfortunately denied in their family of origin. Children instinctively know "goodness" and relate to people who genuinely care for them.
Too bad your daughter not proximate to your home where you could drop in for peaceful visits.  You do have a challenge with this guy.  Rest assured I get it.
Optionally, change yourself into a bold, brassy, assertive MIL and see if he quakes in fear and starts being nice.  Ha Ha.   Humor helps.

Ruth

I see some very good and thought provoking points there, Crystalball.  I agree that time will forge a loving bond with g/s, and the loving nature of the GM will speak for itself.  I also think it seems a great possiblity that DH resents the strong DM/DD bond and feels threatened by it, and he is flexing his muscles.  What makes it all even more outlandish is that she's a psychologist!

However, I personally don't believe pushing back will achieve any positive ends for her.  I can't imagine this kind of individual quaking in fear, he will retaliate.  I fear he will just work harder to squeeze her (GM) out, and because the DD seems to be playing a more passive role and seems to have a deep attachment to her DH, I can't see her coming to blows with him about it.  All this is guesswork of course.  I wish we knew more.  I still think the 180 shift in his behavior is perplexing and I can't find any explanation for this.  Seems he would have always been sullen and possessive with his future wife.  who knows.

CrystalBall

I don't really recommend turning into an assertive, challenging MIL type.  Remember Ralph Kramden's visiting Mother in Law though in the old Honeymooner episodes?  She held nothing back whatsoever so quite the comedy when blustering Ralph had to endure her digs and jabs.  Maybe she was my comedy memory of how one lady dealt with son in law, poor harmless Ralph after his tired day on the bus route.  She was the caricature of a MIL.
A leopard doesn't change its spots and ArtLady is not likely to turn into Alice's mother I guess. 

somom

Artlady,  Just a thought, but has anyone considered that this guy (the SIL) seems to fit the pattern of an emotional abuser..........putting on a fabulous, wonderful personality to draw his prey in and then after he has caught her he instantly changes, seems angry, distant, and disrespectful, becomes mean and cruel to her family, isolates her from her family and friends to the point where she is afraid to let him know she is contacting her family, does not want her to work or have hobbies, and her personality changes to where she is withdrawn from family and friends and feels isolated and anxious all the time.  Even though your daughter has an education in this field anyone can be drawn in and not even realize what is happening.  I think there is not one good reason to control someone as much as he controls your DD.  She seems to be just an extension of him, not a whole person by herself.  No one knows what goes on behind closed doors.  Just a thought.  I think he could be just that to change someone so much from what they use to be like that you describe.  I would be very weary of this guy.

somom

If he is rude and cold to you all, he will eventually be rude and cold to your daughter. 

lancaster lady

Just a thought Artlady , how do you react when he is rude to you , with his nasty comments? Also does your dd hear him and if so how does she react ? No matter who made them my ac would not put up with anyone disrespecting me . I also wouldn't take any verbal abuse from anyone without reacting myself . Until he reveals his underlying cause for his hostilty , you will never know why he treats you as he does.  I must say my DIL also changed overnight after the birth of my gd , this was her baby . She didnt want to share with anybody including my ds . My gd is now 2 and a big part of my life . I suppose I never gave up trying to see her . She was never abusive towards me though , well not openly . I understand how you need to be closer to that baby , i felt exactly the same . Don't give up , he can't.make you.disappear .

Ruth

You may have already answered this question, ARtlady, but have you just point blank asked your DD what has happened that he is put out with you guys about?  I would have done this a week after the wedding if it were me, as I could comfortably ask DD this, altho not SIL.  Just curious.

I had a good smile this morning with the Honeymooners idea, Crystalball, this was funny and I enjoyed it!  My maternal g/m was like this, she despised my DF and was the only person I ever knew to opening challenge him, but she was fearless and as I posted recently, I think she may have been SPD which would account for a lot!!  (footnote:  It didn't help matters, just kept out stomachs in knots due to open warfare)