Is it Me ?

[lancaster lady]

It's called running round in circles Pooh .
The only reason I continue doing it  is to see my GD .
If she wasn't in the picture , I wouldn't feature in it either .

[artlady]

Hey I think we need to have a national convention  lol We could really have some fun i bet and it might  make some of this crap we go through a national or regional affair every year to look forward to after all the stuff we put up with during the year to be grandparents and parents.  I bet if we were all sitting at a round table hashing this out we could solve it all plus tell Washington a thing or two.  lol

[Liz]

ArtLady...  After reading some of these really sad situations... I am more for adopting people we like.  My kids have lots of surrogate grandparents... Know them better than their own grandparents.  And I have become really friendly to the older people in my neighborhood.  I guess when you don't get what you need... You look for it in other people.

[artlady]

Oh yes that is why still teach art 2 days a week , I can be a grandparent 2 days a week to about 200 kids.  I've gotten to know some families very well and the grandparents live way off or are not living so I can pretend. Hey we can adopt plenty of folks that would love to be cared about from all the wise women on here .

[pam1]

I'm glad you are getting the meeting together LL.  So happy for you.

I will say it gets old always hearing that MIL/GM needs to do this...needs to do that.  Jump through hoops, after all you want to see them.....  At what point does your DIL need to make an effort?  And it does feel like any way we turn is wrong with it.  Ask and you're being intrusive...don't ask and you are not involved in your GC's lives.  Then we hear DIL shouldn't have to make an effort....we're not her family...let DS do it.  Make DS make the effort (and yes I do think DS's get off the hook with a bunch and should make more of an effort).  Oh, but go through DS and we should have included and asked DIL because after all, they should both agree.  It's exhausting.  So in an effort to not be exhausted, our choices are to back off and let them come to us...which was the issue to begin with...never coming to us.  So for our sanity, we have to love from a distance, which constitutes not getting to know the GC, which puts us back in the "doesn't get involved" category.  Shewww. 

That wasn't aimed at our DILS here as you guys have it the opposite way and have tried.  I'm talking about mine, LL's, Pens, and other MIL/GM's here.

I understand, Pooh.  We are all dealing with difficult people.  I'm sure many DILs here can relate to what you wrote just swap around the titles lol.

Bottom line, I think we are all in the same boat.  We're on some kind of game show but we don't know the rules and/or the rules change as part of the game.  It's extraordinarily frustrating for us all.

[Kennedy]

I love the organ grinder/monkey reference

I was thinking the exact same thing!
Isn't it odd how everything we have today that is supposed to "save time" yet NO ONE has any time much to spare for one another? I remember my parents many times having friends over to play cards and us kids playing outside. My folks were home every night and we sat down to supper together. They didn't have instant meals,fast food on every corner,micro waves,and such. They never owned a cell phone but always knew where I was. 
Now all we seem to do is work for the pretty patio and have no time left over to sit on it..

[artlady]

Kennedy that is soooooooooooo true and these days are so different plus these young couples have no clue how much easier it was back then when everyone had time for each other . I do wish we had time to spend with the ones we love and to use that nice patio more . 

[Pen]

Yeah, I remember my Ps sitting on the patio every day after DF came home from work. Neighbors would drop by, we kids would be playing, there was time before dinner to unwind. Of course DM had not worked outside the home since she married (it was the 1950's.) No technology burning up our free time, no over-scheduled children to schlepp from activity to activity.

[Pooh]

I remember those days too.  I miss them.  One of the things I missed so badly when I was raising my own children was not letting them go roaming around the neighborhood(s).  We used to ride our bikes everyone and be gone for hours.  My parents never worried about us.  Got thirsty?  Stop at any neighbors house and get a glass of water, coke or a frozen pop.  They would hand us gum and away we'd go again.

I always hated that I couldn't let mine do that out of fear of their safety because many in society could not be trusted.  We had the 3-4 neighbors we trusted, but the others moved in and out so much you didn't know them.

Sad reflection of our times.

[herbalescapes]

Did you ever consider what message your DS is sending your DIL with his behavior?  I mean, if my husband invited his parents over when he wouldn't be home (even if he was supposed to be there "shortly") I would wonder if he was trying to avoid them.  If he invited them over and we were out, I'd wonder why he didn't keep an eye on the clock to make sure we were home in time to greet them.  It certainly wouldn't be my responsibility.  Or if he made those plans after we had the earlier plans, I'd wonder if he was hedging his bets to avoid his parents. 

My Dh and I met in college, hundreds of miles away from both families.  We spent our dating years after college hundreds of miles away from each other as well as FOOs.  Our first four or so years of marriage we were hundreds of miles away from FOOs.  For the first 8 years of us being a couple, my main impression of his family was from his comments, and they were mostly negative.  Not extreme - no accusations of abuse or the like.  But he'd complain about his mom nagging him and treating him like he was still a child and didn't she realize he managed to get himself dressed and to work every day now.  Whenever he went to visit them or they came to visit him, he'd say how it was nice to see them, but after a day or so it was definitely time for them (or him) to go home.  When we moved within a half hour of them, my impression was not that my DH wanted a whole lot of interaction with his parents.  Then when we were here, he rarely took the initiative to see them.  He didn't tell me about invitations they gave us.  I had a class one night a week for 9 months out of the year, but he never used that time to meet up with his folks.  When I had to spend 10 weeks of dog training class, leaving him free to do what he wanted, he didn't use that opportunity to see his parents.  He never suggested getting together with them for Father's Day.  In my mind, I get to dictate what we do for Mother's Day and he owns Father's Day.  Only once did he try to get us all together for his birthday.  Only once did he try to get us together for his mom's birthday. 

Put all that together, and I don't think I'm crazy for assuming he didn't want a whole lot of contact with his parents.  So why should I make an effort for something I'm convinced my DH doesn't really want?  I could be wrong in my assumption, I know that.  But I have spelled out to my DH how I interpret his behavior and he chooses to continue in that behavior.  I have caught my husband lying to me and his parents about how things are, so I know he is saying one thing to them, but then doing things that undermine what he says he wants.  I don't want to really rain on anyone's parade, but you can't assume your AC are telling you the truth.  If the truth is your DS really wants to minimize your presence in his live and somehow the DIL has been given the blame (whether through outright lies or miscommunications or assumptions or etc.) it's pretty human nature for a DS to let DIL take the heat and sit back and let the MIL-DIL relationship deteriorate while he sits back as the poor hen-pecked husband.  He gets to have his cake and eat it too.  We are culturally conditioned to blame the MIL or DIL when things go bad. 

I know there are cases where the DIL is the instigator in a family rift (just like there are cases where a MIL is an instigator), but before blame is cast on the DIL, you should keep in mind that hearsay from a DS isn't gospel truth. 

[lancaster lady]

hi herbal ,

thanks for your input ..
As I was attending a hospital near where my Ds lives , he Invited me to call in .
We didn't know how long my appointment would take , and also as he would be at work . It could have worked out that he
would be there before us or vice versa .
I don't understand the problem of him not being there actually , why couldn't my DIL greet us without him .
She lived with me for 6 months , and he wasn't there 24 hours a day , so I don't see a problem of me dropping
in whilst he was away .
Also if he didn't want any contact why would he invite me in the first place ?
Not to mention asking for me to take him and his family in when homeless .

This isn't a case of me insisting on a visit , or pushing myself on them .
It's probably a case of my Ds not telling his DW in time .
Also I didn't mention the fact to her or him , that I was a bit miffed at no one being home .
I can assure you there was no 'heat ' involved .

I don't get these families where his parents are his responsibility, and hers are her responsibility .
Surely we are all now family ?
Marriage is the joining of two families, or is that just another fairytale ?
I suppose I am now the older generation with old fashioned family values .

[justus]

LL,
It is time to lower your expectations yet again. It is kind of cruel, but, there it is and there is nothing you can do about it. Your DS seems the responsibility for inviting you over has fallen to your DS, and it doesn't seem to be all that important to him to have you over, so it falls to you to do the inviting. This is one of those things you cannot change, so let it go. It also falls to you to make it a pleasant experience. When you are there, don't take offense, it isn't worth the effort, and just be happy and pleasant to be around. Make it so they don't have any reason not to have or want you around.

I don't lament the fact that I have to make more of an effort, because I am more prepared to do so than my adult children. Not only do I have a small understanding of what they are going through having been a young adult and having made lots of mistakes, but I have a small understanding of what I am going through right now as a parent of adult children, which they don't and it is unreasonable to expect they should. If I have to be the adult in the situation, well, I am old enough and mature enough to know how to do that, and sometimes they simply aren't. Having had to be the adult in my relationship with my Mom for most of my life, I won't do that to my children.

For me and DH, it is his family is his responsibility and my family is my responsibility, and we are in our late 40s, so it isn't just young couples who do this. It dawned on me while I was trying to establish a relationship with his family that it was me making all the effort, so I stopped. I was having enough trouble with having a relationship with my own family. Obviously his family wasn't all that into me, and he wasn't all that interested in him, so why should I kill myself trying to make something happen just because I was the woman and it was my "job" to do so? I have found since then that it was a good thing I stopped, because it has caused MIL and DH to deal with each other in ways they would not have if I had continued to be the buffer.

[herbalescapes]

It used to be that the family social calendar was the wife's responsibilty.  That model doesn't work anymore, so couples need a way to figure out who will take care of which social responsibilities - just like household chores which use to be the foregone wife's responsibility - so dividing things your family-your responsibility is pretty equitable.  Doesn't work for everyone, but if a couple decides to do things that way, that's their perogative.

Does it really matter why your DIL didn't want to greet you?  If she didn't, your DS shouldn't have put that job on her.  My husband has tried to make me responsible for deliveries while he is at work.  If I have other plans, I tell him too bad.  It's his delivery, so he needs to make sure he is there.

I don't want to second guess your son and his feelings, so let's talk in hypotheticals.  If an AC wants nothing or minimal involvement with his parents, he may not feel comfortable telling them that.  He may feel guilty.  He may want to have his cake and eat it too - be able to keep his parents on the sidelines, but not have to deal with the negative emotions.  I know plenty of cases where a parent doesn't really want to be very hands on with their kids, but they don't want to be criticized for being uncaring parents.  It could be something similar.  It's very possible none of this has anything to do with your situation.  I'm just throwing things out to consider.  If your DIL feels - rightly or wrongly - that your DS doesn't really want you around, she may just be doing what she thinks he really wants.  Emphasis on thinks. 

I know this doesn't make a whole lotta sense, but it could be your DIL/DS are uncomfortable around you simply because you did bail them out.  It's a case of no good deed going unpunished.  It's tough to accept charity/help as an adult.  You might be a reminder how they failed.  It's not fair; you did a good deed.  But they have to direct their embarassment somewhere, and it's easier to marginalize you than deal with their own feelings of failure/insecurity/etc.  Just a possiblity.

In any case, I do hope you get to see your GC more and develop a good relationship.

[lancaster lady]

Either my DS has been hiding his dislike for me all these years , or I have mistaken his caring ways as a sham .

I'm glad we had a lovely day together on Sunday , when we all gathered for a BBQ at my house , I hope they found it
not too hard to be in my company .
It was worth it for me to hear my GD tell me she loves me thiiiiiisssss much .
Oh yes and my DS asked me would I like to come over and babysit over night ......I do hope he made sure that
he ok'd it with his DW first ...I would hate to be unwelcome .I assume they are going out together , so I suppose
she must know , maybe I'll check with her to make sure .

I have never been likened to a parcel before , I thought a grandparent was perhaps more important .

[Pen]

LL, I doubt your DS has been misrepresenting his feelings. I'm glad you had a good time with your GD, sounds lovely. And what a parcel you would be, lol! I hope whoever wraps you up adds a couple of air holes & a "fragile" label.

Sometimes I think my DS pretends things are normal between DIL and his FOO; I could see him saying to us, "Stop by since you'll be near. If I'm not home yet, hang out w/DIL for a bit." Magical thinking, based on DIL's similar invitations to her FOO & friends.

Something similar just happened to me...DS invited me to stop by since he'd learned I was going to be very close to his home and DIL was going to be away. At a bit of expense in time & money, but worth it to honor an invitation from my DS, I arranged my day so I could drop by. DS was home as planned, but when DIL arrived soon after, I got the feeling I wasn't welcome anymore so I left. If it had been DIL's FOO who had dropped by instead of me, I certainly hope DS would have been more accommodating.

I've learned that although it sounds like a casual, normal, friendly invitation, w/DIL & DS it's fraught with danger. I will not fall for it again w/o getting something signed and notorized by all concerned parties.