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Expectations

Started by willingtohelp, April 15, 2010, 07:19:47 PM

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Postscript

I'm looking forward to sipping wine around the fire pit Pen, I'd rather have a good memory than a handbag but I kind of gave up on bags when a diaper bag became the most practical thing to carry  ;D  I'll take a nice glass of wine and good company instead.

Pen

Postscript, I found that any "after kids" handbag I carried could be counted on to contain at least one dinosaur, two Hot Wheels cars, many smashed crackers, linty binkies, and Sesame Street bandaids. You're better off sticking with the diaper bag. I hear Coach makes a nice one :)
Respect ... is appreciation of the separateness of the other person, of the ways in which he or she is unique.
-- Annie Gottlieb

bettylou

Glitter I can not believe that your inlaws chose a crum bum contractor over thier own son and his wife!  That is terrible to me!  I would be angry and hurt for years if that happened to me.  I feel bad for you.  Have they always done things like that to your husband?  Are they senile?  Just wondering because I know some older people get senile they get taken in by someone they think is nice to them and they just can not see the truth so sad.  I hope soon you and husband have a wonderful reversal of fortune and can get out debt you did not cause!

Birdy

Quote from: Hope on April 16, 2010, 07:06:32 PM
Quote from: penstamen on April 16, 2010, 09:20:11 AM
Clover, for some reason my thoughts aren't getting through. I'm sorry if I haven't made myself clear. I hope you don't mind slogging through this again with me so I can be sure you understand. The "thank you" issue is not the important thing to me. Somewhere along the line you missed that DH and I had spent all day, on the hottest day of the year, helping DS & DIL move and clean. Her parents and siblings were not there, it was up to us to drive for two hours, work hard all day without being offered food or drink. We were not appreciated for our efforts, and in fact have been treated even more rudely by her since then. So why did we do it? Because we love them, they asked, we thought it would help show DIL that we accept her and want to be considered part of the family.

No, there's no law that says DIL needs to thank us. There's no law that says she has to like us. But it's polite to show appreciation (don't want a fruit basket, just a kind word - and lunch...a water bottle might be nice, LOL) when people who don't have to help you come and give up a day (well, two days actually because we were really sore the next day - we're old) to help you move. I don't expect anything from DIL, but I mention these things to point out how she feels about us. They are examples of her behavior.

Holidays - we've been parents, too, and totally understand about the Christmas morning - pj thing. DS & DIL don't have kids yet, so that's not the holiday issue we're dealing with. What happened with us is that DIL's family set the rules without any discussion or compromise with us. It's their way and that's that. Finally the SILs (our DS & his BIL) stepped up and complained that they should at least get every other Christmas with their FsOO. So now DILs family gets EOC plus a week every Christmas. We get EOC and no week. BTW, it's DS's only week off from work (he works for FIL.) They've pretty much sewn up his life. Yes, I understand they have the right to make their own choices, but it still hurts.

Other celebrations? They laid down the law regarding meal times and we always have to work around it. By the time DS & DIL get to us they're full and sleepy. If we don't agree with this we miss seeing DS, so we go along with whatever they want. We let them all run the show and try to fit ourselves in.

Does even a little part of you see that this behavior is rude, inconsiderate and unfair? Even if they all "have the right" to do it? I can understand DIL frustrations when I read their stories of unfair, abusive treatment from ILs and have expressed support. Can I get the same courtesy?

Adult children have the freedom to be selfish and disrespectful to their parents if they choose (and parents have the freedom to be selfish and disrespectful to adult children/il's) - but it doesn't make it a good choice or the right thing to do.  It certainly doesn't foster a healthy relationship.  And we ALL have a right to our own feelings and if we are disappointed, hurt or sad - well, that's an appropriate response if we are being ill-treated.  Shouldn't we all be working toward happy, healthy relationships - MIL/FIL/DIL/DS one and all?  Just giving in to one side all the time to keep the peace may be one way of handling a bad situation - but it doesn't make it a well rounded healthy relationship.  It's not really mil's against dil's - there are good and bad in both arenas. 
Btw, can anyone tell me a good way to ask dil/ds what their expectations are in our relationship?  Is a letter best, in person, over the phone, email............and the wording?  Thanks for any help you can give me.
Hugs to all........Hope

I can speak for myself and as a DIL.  I would have prefered a face to face talk.   Email or letter can be taken out of turn since you can't express tone or attitude.

Also, depending on your relationship with your DIL/SIL I would also request their spouse be there so that their is no miss-communication on either side or finger pointing later on a he-said, she-said.

I think about this often, even though my children are still babies.  I imagine sitting down a future DIL/SIL and just saying this is how I am. 

As a person that has never done this with my MIL and wish we had, I feel like you sit down with your future husband/wife and talk about your expectations and such  - but we never do it with the extended family, which will also become our family.

When we helped in our marriage prep courses at our church we were told and tell they newly engaged couples that the biggest issues they will face is usually:  Family, holidays & money.  In that order.

I hope as a DIL I can offer some insite and help the struggling MIL on this board.  I also hope for the same.



1Glitterati

Quote from: bettylou on April 17, 2010, 12:55:47 AM
Glitter I can not believe that your inlaws chose a crum bum contractor over thier own son and his wife!  That is terrible to me!  I would be angry and hurt for years if that happened to me.  I feel bad for you.  Have they always done things like that to your husband?  Are they senile?  Just wondering because I know some older people get senile they get taken in by someone they think is nice to them and they just can not see the truth so sad.  I hope soon you and husband have a wonderful reversal of fortune and can get out debt you did not cause!

Oh no...they're not senile.  They can NOT admit to being wrong.  Unfortunately for us all...I simply can't forgive them for that.

It's about more than the money...they didn't actually take the money from us.  It's about supporting and providing succor and jobs to the person who caused that to happen to us.  They didn't believe us.  They believed him.  We were straight with them and told them if they continued to deal with him that they wouldn't have us.  We issued an ultimatum and they chose.  They proved, loud and clear, that we aren't as important as other people.  Honestly...when we sat down and talked with them over a year ago my mil told me "you weren't the only consideration" when I asked why they kept him on.  They thought they were getting a great deal money wise and chose that over us.  Maybe it makes me bad...but I'm waiting for the day when something is TRULY important to her, she NEEDS me and my help and I can just look at her and tell her she's just not a consideration in my decision.

They do see the kids...and it takes every ounce of understanding and kindness in my heart to do that.  But, I'll be truthful...it's on MY terms.  They've lost the privilege to have things on theirs.  It's really a shame, too...consider we live across the pasture from them.

Hope

Glitter's quote:
We hired a contractor who was a friend of the ils to build our home.  He turned out to be a crook who ended up costing us hundreds (yes, HUNDREDS) of thousands of dollars.  We fired him.  Inlaws supported contractor friend and not us.  They went so far as to let the guy live on their property while he restored a house for them.  Dh and I now have a mortgage that is 40% of our NET monthly salary because of this dude.  In the end...he really ended up defrauding the ils too...but for nearly 3 years they chose him over us--To the point that they told us we were hurting him financially and we were acting badly by firing him!  They can't seem to understand why I can't get past it.

They've said they can't change the past and we can only move forward.  Both of those are true.  Without them realizing they did something wrong and being sorry...I'm just done.  Believe it or not, I've come a long way.  I don't hate them anymore.  I don't just wish they'd drop dead anymore.  I just feel lots of indifference and some scorn.

Oh...and all of this happened after we'd had what I thought was a good relationship for about 17 years.  I truly loved my mil.  I would call her just to talk.  Prior to my having kids, we'd go out to dinner together and things like that.  Having loved them in the first place is probably why I hated them so much when all the bad happened.  Because it hurt so much.

ETA...I used to like my fil, too, as much as one could prior to all this.  He's a very patriarchal guy and a huge control freak.  I was the only person who ever stood up to him.  Everyone, including my dh felt he was a man to be deferred to even at other people's expense.  Glitterati didn't play that.  Fil (prior to the blow up) had an understanding w/each other.


Glitter, I see your point, I agree that this situation does warrant your il's heartfelt apology.  I hope they will come to see the pain they have caused you and your dh and try to make amends.  I can feel the pain in your post and pray that the healing you are experiencing continues full circle.
Bear Hugs, Hope

Hope



I can speak for myself and as a DIL.  I would have prefered a face to face talk.   Email or letter can be taken out of turn since you can't express tone or attitude.

Also, depending on your relationship with your DIL/SIL I would also request their spouse be there so that their is no miss-communication on either side or finger pointing later on a he-said, she-said.

I think about this often, even though my children are still babies.  I imagine sitting down a future DIL/SIL and just saying this is how I am. 

As a person that has never done this with my MIL and wish we had, I feel like you sit down with your future husband/wife and talk about your expectations and such  - but we never do it with the extended family, which will also become our family.

When we helped in our marriage prep courses at our church we were told and tell they newly engaged couples that the biggest issues they will face is usually:  Family, holidays & money.  In that order.

I hope as a DIL I can offer some insite and help the struggling MIL on this board.  I also hope for the same.
[/quote]
Birdy, thanks for your input.  I really appreciate hearing a dil's perspective on this.  In general, I feel like hearing your side of the story (& the other dil's) has really helped me see things differently.  Face to face and with ds/dh it is............but now I have to figure out a way to ask that is non-threatening and will not be taken out of context or twisted to make me out to be the bad guy.  Any suggestions?
Hugging you, Hope

1Glitterati

Quote from: Hope on April 17, 2010, 10:02:17 AM
Glitter, I see your point, I agree that this situation does warrant your il's heartfelt apology.  I hope they will come to see the pain they have caused you and your dh and try to make amends.  I can feel the pain in your post and pray that the healing you are experiencing continues full circle.
Bear Hugs, Hope

Hope...see...the thing is, they DO see the pain they have caused.  They consider saying it's in the past, lets just move forward as amends.  I do not. 

Dh...because he was raised by them, to a large extent, does.  I've tried to explain it to him...but he really has no idea what  a chunk that takes out of our marriage and my trust and faith in him.   He very seriously told me they had apologized.  I said when?  He said when we talked.  I asked him to specifically tell me when they either said "I'm sorry" or "I apologize" at any point in the conversation.  He couldn't remember it because it didn't happen.  The realization looked painful to him.  I told him that nothing with me changes until they do so.

Like I said...I went at Xmas (and mil thanked me and said it meant alot--and she was sincere).    That won't happen again.  I fully believe that my ils expect I am back in the fold, so to speak, and that I'll be back on holidays and at other times in between.  I don't have the energy right now to start the fight by saying I have no intentions of coming back.  Dh knows...I've been clear with him.  They just don't.

As I look at this...I realize I have a luxury as a dil.  I'm not really losing much...just two people.  I never had much of a relationship with dh's sister and her family, and (despite what she thinks) dh has never been close to her and really doesn't like or respect her or care if he ever sees her again.  Maybe I'd feel different if more people were involved--like my children or grandchildren.  Maybe losing more people would motivate me to change the way I feel.  I just don't have that motivation because having them out is less painful than having them in and it just isn't the same type of "family" relationship.

I will tell you what this has taught me FOR me.  I don't know if I will ever really consider any il in my life real family.  The actions of my ils over this and some other things since have proven to me that I was never a member of their family.  So...they're dh's family.  They're even part of my children's family---mother, father, sister, niece, nephew, gma, gpa, aunt, cousins.  To me they are just my husbands family.  I no longer feel any connection to any of them.  When my kids marry...I wonder if I will hold myself aloof and will just consider their spouses spouses---as opposed to a member of my family.

Postscript

I have to admit, I'd be loathe to make amends and move on if I was literally paying for my inlaws actions for the next 10-20 years in the form of a mortgage.  It hardly falls under the category of one day you'll laugh about it does it? EG Hey remember that time I got mad at you for costing us an extra 40% on our mortgage haha...yeah not going to happen!

1Glitterati

Quote from: Postscript on April 17, 2010, 03:36:29 PM
I have to admit, I'd be loathe to make amends and move on if I was literally paying for my inlaws actions for the next 10-20 years in the form of a mortgage.  It hardly falls under the category of one day you'll laugh about it does it? EG Hey remember that time I got mad at you for costing us an extra 40% on our mortgage haha...yeah not going to happen!

It's more about feeling absolutely betrayed.  Yes...I focus on the money...A LOT.  But they didn't actually cost us the money.  They just chose the person who cost us the money over us.  It wasn't like we were asking them to choose between dh and his sister.  (Which btw...they'd chose dh's sister in a flat second.  They wouldn't even refuse to take sides...they'd just choose her.  It really makes dh angry.)

Postscript

I know what you mean the money is secondary but the money would just be a constant reminder.  Seriously who chooses a contractor over their own son?  As for choosing between children, I'm one of those strange parents who from the time they were little refused to choose one over the other.  We do different things for each because they are different people with different needs but it all equals out in the end.  I couldn't ever choose one over the other in that situation.

Scoop

I've been thinking about expectations and I was reminded of this story.

My cousin married a guy who is a jerk.  He's a cocky jerk.  But he's not backstabbing about it,  he doesn't say nice things to your face and then act the opposite, in fact you always hear EXACTLY what he's thinking.  My Mom was having an open house party for my Dad's birthday.  My Dad and a lot of his friends don't drink, so out of respect, my Mom offered coffee, tea and soft drinks, along with cake and snacks.  So this cousin's husband, after hearing his choices of beverage said "I should have known I wouldn't get offered a beer in this house, I should have brought a cooler-full!"  My Dad was SO angry about this.  He was telling us the story (we didn't make it to the party - too far, bad weather) and my brother interrupted him and said:

"You were wrong!"

We were ALL shocked.

Then he continued and said "Look, this guy is a JERK, he doesn't hide it, and if *you* expect him to be anything but a jerk, then YOU are wrong." 

I've found with my MIL too that I've changed my expectations of her - she just doesn't have it *IN* her to be a good grandmother - I can't get blood from a stone.

So maybe you guys should just change your expectations, some of your DIL's are NOT capable of what most people consider 'nrmal' behaviour.













cremebrulee

April 18, 2010, 05:19:50 AM #57 Last Edit: April 18, 2010, 05:21:24 AM by cremebrulee
Scoop, when I was young, I didn't realize, expectations of others were debilitating my life...all I knew were how things were supposed to be, according to the way I was raised and how I believed things were suppsed to be.  Expectations caused me to either get along with others or not...if someone didn't think and feel as I did, I got upset, or if someone in the work place, didn't act a certain way, I was personally offended to the point that it hurt me terribly.  I was either not doing something, being sometime, giving something or getting something. 

Love is without trying, without ownership, without control...without duty, obligation or commitment...and that is how we love our children...unconditionally...

We are let down by the inactions or actions of someone..we didn't have our needs met...and we become disappointed when someone doesn't meet our expectations, which in turn leads us to hurt feelings of disappointment...due to a perceived sight which is unintention, however, that is how our brains process.

I believe when our expectations are not met, it can destroy a relationship.  For instance...

When we marry, we have this idea in our minds, of how a marriage and relationship should be...it is our most intimitate knowledge, it is us, how we are...however, when someone acts out differently...other then the way we expect them to act or be, we are devestated...which is what I realized with my now ex-husband...it wasn't anything I did to cause him to do the things he did, it was in fact, who he was...he was raised without moral obligation to self and others.   

Relationships, all relationships are hard...friends, relatives, in the work place, husbands, wives, children and inlaws..it's like when we plan a vacation with someone...and we automatically have this idea in our minds of how it's going to play out...however, the other couple, has they're own ideas...and those ideas clash once engaged in the vacation...I used to be very upset with people when they were not on time...I was always early and ready...but when I had to wait, it really made me angry...I thought, "how could they be like this?  How could they do this to me?"  But it wasn't me they were doing this to...it was simply how they were...all the time...

Expecations can set each individual in a relationship up to fail...everyone has they're own needs and ideas of how to be and believe...

I have this neighbor who never makes it in a relationship...some may call her controlling, however, she really gets upset, with her mate, when he doesn't do what she expects him to do, act or feel...I feel sorry for her, b/c all these men leave her...she was telling me the other day, she was wondering if her relatives checked on her home last week...and if they didn't she was really going to have a talk with them...maybe they were not able to get there due to some unforeseen event...but she didn't consider that...b/c they didn't do what she wanted them to do, she was very angry...

Her mother died...and her boyfriend didn't act the way she thought he should, so she broke up with him...

expectations, leads us to wanting something from other people that they can't always give...or be...we all want something  from relationships...in any relationship there has to be a conscious shift from 'I' to 'we' and that's not easy.

When you compromise there is an element of disgruntlement which can sow the seeds of resentment ultimately resulting in dissolution which can be disastrous to the balance of relationship.  Compromise and communication is essential, the lifeline of any relationship...

Just some ideas that were swimming around in that head of mine from your post Scoop...

Thanks
Creme


Birdy

Quote from: Anna on April 17, 2010, 07:32:11 AM
Birdy, what do they tell you to do, at the marriage prep courses, when faced with money, holiday, & family issues.  When I got married these courses didn't exist in our area.

Anna:
Basically they tell you that no matter what you do, you need to do it as a couple and a united front and to remember that you are now a core family unit.

They also tell you to realize that you can not and will not make everyone happy.

They also suggest that if there are some issues within the family, say we have a problem with my dad, the first attempt to work it out should come from me and not my DH.  Only because as his daughter I could most likely say or handle him better then my DH.  I also would know my dad.  Then together as a group if it is still not worked out.

With regards to money - they don't say to much , but ask the couples to give them suggestions on what works for them.  So we always told everyone how we set up or accounts and how we work our money together as a couple.

Anna - worst part about this whole prep course is that I would have to say 99% of the people didn't want to be there and didn't care or listen.  They were only doing it because it was a requirement to get married with the catholic church.  Which is such a shame.

Because both my DH & I took a lot away from it and took it serious.   We were given a work book with activities do to together and apart, which opened up discussions for us.



I