controlling sil

[luise.volta]

I would still ask that we stay away from generalizations, no matter how the shoe fits. OK? We have women here from every walk of life. And I have heard..."Well, you know how nurses are." No, how are we? The same is true of ministers or any other field. Kirk's dad was 6 ' 4 " and built like a tank and people asked him who he "played for." He had a brain injury as a child, had a metal plate in his head and couldn't do sports. We all do generalizations but I ask that we don't do it here. Lets put it to rest. Sending love...

[artlady]

FAFE  So is your bil  a control freak along with all the other issues?  If she quits her job as he wants her to do then she will lose all of her identity , plus no money of her own. She has a really good job and these days and times that might not be a good idea. I don't expect him to like or love us if he could just be respectful when we are around . We only saw them about 2 hours total in the two days we were there and the baby less , a new father is usually on cloud nine , he wasn't showing much of any of that. Such a strange weird feeling . As the psychologist said we were in a hostile environment. Well enough of the rambling so how has your bil's wife made it and are there any children? I know this one will be a great provider, jury out on his parenting skills ( hope not like his dad) he is good for all the yard work and house repair things , she can't cook without him watching over her , can't buy anything until it is researched for best price and if it is good. So glad it is not me wow i couldn't live like that. WE are retired and working part time jobs and this is not something we need at this time in our life to have to stroke this needy ego of his but to keep the peace and not have it taken out on our daughter we will do whatever it takes but it might kill us in the mean time lol

[pam1]

artlady, you're posting just fine

My take (and trust me, I know it's hard to get your entire story out in just a few posts here) is that the concerns you have about SIL/DD are more about you than them. 

Judging a new father in seeing him in action less than 2 hours and also finding him lacking is just looking for trouble, to me.  I also think knowing his background is one thing but judging him for it (which he probably does not have much control over) and stressing about how it could affect him as a father is not your place.  Please do not take this harshly, I mean to say it to help you.  My MIL does very similar things (my parents divorced, mother with terminal illness a long time in my childhood) and uses it to judge my worth as a mother and future mother.

In all of my (many) issues with her I have to say that above is one of the worst.  I know what she is doing, she's uncomfortable to be around and quite frankly has absolutely no clue how my childhood really did affect me.  Because it was different than what she provided for her kids does not mean it was bad for me or that my worth as a parent is an area she has any right to make a judgement in.  I find it highly offensive that she even goes there.

Again, this is not to be harsh but even if you have not voiced these type of things to your SIL or DD (and if you did to DD you can bet she told him) he can probably tell.  We all know when someone is "watching" us like that.  IMO, it's best to work on ways to detach from being this close to their marriage.  It is theirs and theirs alone to manage.  I am sure you raised your DD to be a strong woman and she will not do anything she doesn't want to.

[Kate]

A bit taken aback to see engineers labeled as controlling etc.  Mine is a sweetie! 

[artlady]

Oh I'm not labeling an engineer I'm just stating what others have said that are married to them, have them in the family or the psychologist so please no offense to anyone . I've met some that are very outgoing , funny and sweet so I don't' think it is a fair assumption of all engineers. With this situation it does fit his personality. Kate I understand and no I don't talk to my daughter about our feelings, we go out of the way to be nice  to him and act normal so not to rock the boat. We live about 100 miles away and we are not in the middle of their marriage , not intruding in laws, and we don't ever ask ourselves for a visit.WE would never confront him , upset him or be rude to him. Our situation is finding the common ground on how to deal with our hurt ( of knowing he wants no family not even his ) of being on eggshells around him and trying to enjoy this special time with our daughter and grandbaby when we can. We are very fearful of the controlling behavior, short fuse ( we have now seen) and how he talks to her at times in front of us ( so no telling what it is behind close doors) She is a strong person and I just hope and pray she can stand up for herself and not get beaten down. So we know we have to be strong for her and she will be the one that has to handle her own marriage and family . They are now a family and that is how it is , so we will do whatever it takes to keep the doors open for all . WE love them all flaws and all . He might not ever love or like us but if he could just treat us with respect on the few times he is around us would make it easier( he is only around us Thanksgiving , Christmas and maybe one other time a year). She comes to visit by herself during the year so that is how it has been and we can live with that.

[artlady]

What an uncomfortable situation huh?  That seems to be another common thread with folks who come to this web site!  I agree with Luise.  He was possibly looking for an excuse, and if it hadn't been the mascot thing it would have been another.  I understand the hospital since all too well.  My own DIL and her family made me feel like an outcast at the birth of my first grandchild, even though my own son wanted me to be there.  Such is life.  It doesn't sound like the situation is going to change any time soon for you.  I have found there are just some people that are (for lack of a better term) just plain weird and hard to get along with!  My DIL is one.  No matter what you do or don't do, say or don't say...they are cold and unfriendly and rude.  I personally like to be friendly and outgoing, and kind to others.  If I were in your shoes I think I'd just avoid him totally, and if she can only talk to you when out of his range of hearing...then SHE has the problem!  If I were her I'd tell him I'll speak to who ever I want and would NOT hide to talk to anyone. Ridiculous. Childish.  He needs to put on his big boy pants and grow up.  If he has issues within his own family (stepmom, siblings), then he needs to address them and get over it.  I am sorry if that sounds mean, but it is so sad reading day after day on here how so many of us are just treated like trash or like we are just not wanted.  About one more issue with my DIL and quite frankly I don't care if there is ever a relationship or not...I refuse to walk on tiptoe like I'm walking on egg shells around her.  She puts her pants on same way I put mine on!  Same for the fella in your post, and I guess maybe I have gotten a bit TOO strong so I'd tell him what I thought!  lol  Hope there is a solution for you soon, one never can tell.  J

Jane we were there for 2 days and saw them maybe 2 hours , we were in the hall more than in the room for nursing , their time together etc, his rude and ugly comments to us went right through our hearts. So it seems every time we have a celebration it ends up being painful. For us being very loving and sensitive people it is hard to deal with difficult folks but when in your family it jerks your heart out.

[artlady]

This description of an engineer pegged my "ever so smart and we were so dumb" BIL to perfection.

I replied in the regular post to you , didn't know that maybe i should have out it here. Thanks

[artlady]

A bit taken aback to see engineers labeled as controlling etc.  Mine is a sweetie!

So sorry Kate I never meant to step on toes, I'm just stating what I've been told . I know all generalizations are not warranted of professions. I know he is a good guy and we are here to give him family ( that he has never had ) and love ( that he wants so bad from his family) ,so all we can do is pray we can be a happy part of his life in the future but at the same time I've got friends that have gone through a lot of the very same with dil for years with it never getting better. So we just have to learn to accept it and be there when needed for all .

[artlady]

What an uncomfortable situation huh?  That seems to be another common thread with folks who come to this web site!  I agree with Luise.  He was possibly looking for an excuse, and if it hadn't been the mascot thing it would have been another.  I understand the hospital since all too well.  My own DIL and her family made me feel like an outcast at the birth of my first grandchild, even though my own son wanted me to be there.  Such is life.  It doesn't sound like the situation is going to change any time soon for you.  I have found there are just some people that are (for lack of a better term) just plain weird and hard to get along with!  My DIL is one.  No matter what you do or don't do, say or don't say...they are cold and unfriendly and rude.  I personally like to be friendly and outgoing, and kind to others.  If I were in your shoes I think I'd just avoid him totally, and if she can only talk to you when out of his range of hearing...then SHE has the problem!  If I were her I'd tell him I'll speak to who ever I want and would NOT hide to talk to anyone. Ridiculous. Childish.  He needs to put on his big boy pants and grow up.  If he has issues within his own family (stepmom, siblings), then he needs to address them and get over it.  I am sorry if that sounds mean, but it is so sad reading day after day on here how so many of us are just treated like trash or like we are just not wanted.  About one more issue with my DIL and quite frankly I don't care if there is ever a relationship or not...I refuse to walk on tiptoe like I'm walking on egg shells around her.  She puts her pants on same way I put mine on!  Same for the fella in your post, and I guess maybe I have gotten a bit TOO strong so I'd tell him what I thought!  lol  Hope there is a solution for you soon, one never can tell.  J

b        WE think alike and I totally agree with you . We feel we are too old to play these games .  Dealing with an immature 36 year old sil is not what I thought my " golden years " would be all about . I'm 60 and hubby is 62 semi retired working part time and life should be good even if the economy looks dim , we want to have fun while we can .  Thanks for your strong point of view.

[phillek]

Jane we were there for 2 days and saw them maybe 2 hours , we were in the hall more than in the room for nursing , their time together etc, his rude and ugly comments to us went right through our hearts. So it seems every time we have a celebration it ends up being painful. For us being very loving and sensitive people it is hard to deal with difficult folks but when in your family it jerks your heart out.

Sorry, ladies, but this hit a nerve with me.  I have a 2 year old and am expecting one this spring.  While I don't think there is any excuse for rude or ugly comments from your SIL, I do think they have the right to spend as much alone time with the baby as they need and that the hospital experience should be all about what's best for the parents and baby, including nursing privately as much and as often as needed.  I think grandparents' needs are a distant second priority during this fragile time, expecially if it is the first baby.

In my case, for example (not suggesting this is what you were like), but my MIL made me incredibly uncomfortable.  I think is is wonderful and sweet to have GP come to meet the newborn, take photos, etc., which is why we invited them to the hospital.  However, when I had to play tug-of-war with the baby I just gave birth to, or was pressured to put his feeding schedule on hold so she could get more "bonding" time with him, I realized that she was actually not considering our needs at all.  This time, they will not be invited to the hospital, but we will ask them to come by our home after we are settled (probably a day or two after we get home).  I know to some this makes me sound like a monster, but I just have too many precious things to worry about (baby's needs, toddler's needs, DH's needs, my health) to be worried that my MIL will get everything she ever dreamed of out of our birth experience.

I'm sorry your SIL said rude things to you, that is not ok, but if your presence was making him feel uncomfortable or stressing him out more during the first few days of his baby's life, I can see why he may have wanted to be alone with his new family (and your DD was probably right on board with this)

For the record, my DM did not get any special treatment, either, and she was perfectly accepting and just happy that we were happy.

[artlady]

Jane we were there for 2 days and saw them maybe 2 hours , we were in the hall more than in the room for nursing , their time together etc, his rude and ugly comments to us went right through our hearts. So it seems every time we have a celebration it ends up being painful. For us being very loving and sensitive people it is hard to deal with difficult folks but when in your family it jerks your heart out.

Sorry, ladies, but this hit a nerve with me.  I have a 2 year old and am expecting one this spring.  While I don't think there is any excuse for rude or ugly comments from your SIL, I do think they have the right to spend as much alone time with the baby as they need and that the hospital experience should be all about what's best for the parents and baby, including nursing privately as much and as often as needed.  I think grandparents' needs are a distant second priority during this fragile time, especially if it is the first baby.

In my case, for example (not suggesting this is what you were like), but my MIL made me incredibly uncomfortable.  I think is is wonderful and sweet to have GP come to meet the newborn, take photos, etc., which is why we invited them to the hospital.  However, when I had to play tug-of-war with the baby I just gave birth to, or was pressured to put his feeding schedule on hold so she could get more "bonding" time with him, I realized that she was actually not considering our needs at all.  This time, they will not be invited to the hospital, but we will ask them to come by our home after we are settled (probably a day or two after we get home).  I know to some this makes me sound like a monster, but I just have too many precious things to worry about (baby's needs, toddler's needs, DH's needs, my health) to be worried that my MIL will get everything she ever dreamed of out of our birth experience.

I'm sorry your SIL said rude things to you, that is not ok, but if your presence was making him feel uncomfortable or stressing him out more during the first few days of his baby's life, I can see why he may have wanted to be alone with his new family (and your DD was probably right on board with this)

For the record, my DM did not get any special treatment, either, and she was perfectly accepting and just happy that we were happy.

Oh I totally understand about their privacy with the new baby . I'm sorry you might have misunderstood  the two hours we were there we never stayed in the room more than 15-30 minutes , i held the baby maybe 2 times for about 10 minutes , my daughter kept saying " Mom you haven't held the baby much" she was texting me all the time that she didn't feel we had seen each other enough , when was i coming back up , . We are very very close and I'm not a smothering mother, we are like best friends. Now she told me they wanted the first two weeks to get adjusted with not alot of visitors but that was not including me and dad. She thought I'd come home then come back and stay some but I waited as I was so crushed by his ugly words and body language of ignoring us that I couldn't go back up , so I waited a week , he came home for lunch and never really acknowledged me and I was ready to cry , once he left i was better. She wants me there and I want to be there but I"m not going to get in his way , so I'm in a bind. She was so tired and baby nursing all the time , he was going to stay home for the two weeks but went back to work on Monday and baby was a week old. I love my daughter and want this to be the most special time in her life . I love children and it is the best thing in life .   I hope that clears it up that i do respect that special bonding  time and would never take that from them,. I totally don't think gp need to be in the delivery room , that is another special time for them .

[phillek]

Gotcha, artlady.  It looks like maybe you were worried that your DD's needs weren't being met, not that you were worried about your own needs.

I apologize , I am quite pregnant and pretty touchy on this subject because I had such a negative experience and am anticipating it happening again.  When I hear that GP weren't happy with the pregnancy/birth/childcare I automatically want to shout "Red Flag!  This is not about you!"  Funny how your own experiences can cloud your judgment about what others are going through

Sorry you are going through this, best wishes to you 

[artlady]

Gotcha, artlady.  It looks like maybe you were worried that your DD's needs weren't being met, not that you were worried about your own needs.

I apologize , I am quite pregnant and pretty touchy on this subject because I had such a negative experience and am anticipating it happening again.  When I hear that GP weren't happy with the pregnancy/birth/childcare I automatically want to shout "Red Flag!  This is not about you!"  Funny how your own experiences can cloud your judgment about what others are going through

Sorry you are going through this, best wishes to you 

Hey no offense taken I would have had 6 children if not for a cancer related pregnancy but with standing my ground at Duke they let me try 2 years later and I had my miracle , for them too. I was a single mom from when she was 2 till 12 , her dad was killed in car accident so needless to say we are very close and folks that know me know i 'd be a great grandmother, young friends wish i could be a surrogate to theirs vs who they have and we have two little ones from hubby's boys that allow us in so this is hard but I'm going to do what i have to as i want my daughter's happiness more than mine . thanks and good luck with your pregnancy and baby. I loved being pregnant and being a mom .

[phillek]

good luck with your pregnancy and baby. I loved being pregnant and being a mom .

Thanks, artlady, I love it too!

[JaneF]

I too agree with artlady for the record!  I was asked to be in the room to film (yuk, not what I ever would have wanted!), by DIL AND son.  The DIL also had both of her parents in there, both of her grandparents,  a friend of her mothers ...needless to say it was a circus!  I was not at all upset by not "having my needs met" here, I just thought my son and DIL should have had time ALONE with the new baby without ANY of us there.  Her entire family snatched that baby right up and took over is what bothered me most.  Her family treating me rudely was something that did NOT have a place there at that time.  This was not about anyone but the new baby and the parents in my opinion.  I am not a "smother mother" either to be honest.  I love my kids and grandkids, but they don't "define me".  I have things I like to do, interests, and activities of my own.  I don't need them to be surrounding me constantly.  I think our statements concerning being there when grandchildren were misunderstood, I apologise for that.  I too wanted more of a private time many years ago when I gave birth to my kids, my own mother was not in there with me...just my husband.  I felt it was our time to bond with the new babies ALONE.   J