Give me patience...

[Pen]

I like Luise's suggestion: "That sounds wonderful, honey. We'll go check it out w/you, let's make a weekend of it!" Do you have frequent flier miles by chance? Pooh, you've shown remarkable love and patience in this very tricky situation. She's lucky to have you, even if she doesn't know it yet.

A dear friend's DD was a brilliant, hard-working student, got a free ride to uni w/paid housing, etc, etc. Suddenly went right off the rails, following some loser BF to the ends of the earth. No drugs, just a lot of fanciful thinking regarding school policies (no, you can't just start again after you told them to take their scholarship and shove it, essentially) and how much it actually costs to live! Her sib is in grad school, working for the D.A. and moving up in the world. Same FOO, same home, same schools, same community. You never know.

[luise.volta]

NY scares me silly. Val comes from the Italian ghetto and used to say that all of the kids on his block were either dead or in prison. (He graduated from Baruch (sp.?) University, cum laude. The grade school he went to had out-houses out back. (Remember, he was born before World War I! It isn't a safe place for those with moxy and the little darling in question is without that important characteristic...so far. I think you are handling this amazingly well, P. This is when a really solid marriage pays off! Sending love...

[JaneF]

I  have never been to NY, and it would scare me to death probably!  I live in a town with the population somewhere in the 5,000 numbers, and we can get anywhere in town in 5 minutes or less!  However, if you try to find a rental for $200 a month, it would either be a single room in a dumpy house, or nothing.  So I also doubt seriously she has found a place there either.  Don't you just hate it when some try to treat you like you are stupid?  lol  Luise, funny about Val and the outhouse thing!  Reminded me of going to my great grandparents house in the country as a kid...they had an outhouse and no indoor plumbing.  Us kids were fascinated with the concept!  I also agree our kids sometimes don't "get it" unless they are let go to fall off that cliff, or fail.  I wouldn't give in to her either, your husband did the right thing.  She'll either go anyway, or she won't, but I too would let her know she better make alternate living arrangements when she needs to crawl back from her dream land!  Most kids that age do not have enough sense to pour pee out of a boot with the directions written on the heel!!!  But they think they know it all.  I thought the same thing at her age, boy was I an idiot! 

[Pooh]

You guys crack me up.  Doe, she had to ask permission due to her being in High School and living with us.  The deal was when she came to live with us, there is a man (I say that with sarcasm) involved.  Her inappropriate behavior involved him, in her M's house when she was still 17 and he's 26.  A "friend" of theirs that they invited to stay over a couple of weekends while he was in town.  We didn't find out about it until she turned 18, 2 months later when they called in hysterics and said they couldn't deal with her.  I'm not going to get into details, as you guys can use your imagination, but it was bad.  I think he's preying on girls on the internet, can't prove it and it's just our feelings.  But, according to her, she's in luuuuvvvv.  In her head, she really is.  Who knows, we could be totally wrong about him, but right now....not the ideal circumstance in our brains and I have no respect for him.

Child services and Law Enforcement got involved but since she had turned 18, nothing we could do.  She has a full ride to a college in our state (about 2 hrs away), but when she came to us, she told us she wants to go to college in NY.  Hmmm, and where does guy live?  So we talked and talked to her about it, him and anything else we could think of to no avail.  So we finally told her that she was 18, she could do what she wanted, but we would not help facilitate or financially support her going to a NY college.  She had to do it on her own.  So taking her up there to see is out of the question.  We will not do anything to help her with it.

I'll give you another laugh this morning so you know what we are dealing with as far as how stupid she thinks we are.  When we asked, "Why NY?" (We knew the answer but wanted to give her an opportunity to explain).  Her answer?  She hates the South.  It's too hot and the people are rude and stupid.  She only likes cold weather is why NY.  Now, she bundles up her and is cold all the time when its 40 degrees.  Complains constantly about being cold. (insert eye roll here)

We tried everything we could think of because it's totally about the guy whom she has spent two weekends with.  We offered Chicago, it's cold there.  We offered alternative after alternative and there was a reason that none of them would work for her.  I offered a college in Ohio that has an excellent program for her field of choice.  Her reason that it wouldn't work?  She hates Ohio.  "So you've been there?"  "Well, we drove through there when I was 8 and I hated it!"

She may have found an apt. on line for $200 a month, that the pictures and ad looks wonderful.  You guys all know, like we do, it's either a scam, rat/roach infested closet-size or many people like you said.  Oh, but no.  It's fabulous!

Part of her major problem is her mouth, disrespect and name-calling.  Her conditions for living with us were "none of that" or their will be consequences.  She treats people like crap if they don't agree with her and give her what she wants.  Like I said, we know she is gone as soon as she graduates.  She's applied for at least 8 different colleges up there.  I hold little hope that she will get accepted or get full rides there.  She will not be able to use our state's Hope money if she goes out of state, which will literally pay for her college here.  Her conditions also included that we wouldn't facilitate anything to do with the guy.  No, he could not visit.  No, we didn't want to talk to him.  She pays for her own cell phone (her only bill), so we don't stop that communication because we also are not stupid and knew she would just borrow friends computers, phones, whatever to stay in contact with him.  It's the best we could do so hopefully she would stay and finish High School at least. 

Luise, you are right.  There is no horrible scenario we haven't imagined.  We both know what she faces and all we can do is let her go after she graduates.

[Pooh]

And DH told her the other night, because she threw the "I'm 18" card out several times.  He told her, "Yes, you are 18 and there is nothing stopping you from packing your stuff right now and going up there.  We know that and if you do, I will not stop you because I do know your 18.  But as long as you are living here, in High School and we are supporting you, I will not condone you going off for a week to shack up with him.  Your entire situation with him has been inappropriate in my eyes and I will not give you permission.  After you graduate and you are supporting yourself, you can do what you want.  You decide you don't like my decision, that's your choice to but you will have to live with the consequences of your decision."

She then asked him, "So what if I go anyway.  What if I take off on Spring break and go?"  He told her that he wouldn't stop her, but she needed to make alternate living arrangements when she came back.  She looked at him and said, "So I can't live here anymore if I go?  You're just like M, you are off your rocker and need a doctor."

Yeah, apparently that's when it went downhill.

[Pooh]

Could you please find out the address of this apartment? I'll rent it. I kind of want to get out of here anyway and that sounds like a steal!

Lol...I'll see what I can do!

[Pooh]

I also wanted to add to all of you, this is how we are...Lol.  I'm not saying we're right but the circumstances that brought her to us were really bad (there is alot more) so this was the best we could do.  There may be a better way to have handled it, but we are both very ethical people.  It would be no different to us if she had asked if she could smoke pot in her room.  We would have told her that no she couldn't in our house and we wouldn't condone it.  Once she was on her own, she could make that choice, but not under our roof.  I know that's sounds like a no-brainer to most here, but that is how we are about things in general.  When YS came in for Christmas, and he's turning 22, his GF is 21 he asked if she could stay over a couple of nights when they had Christmas things early in the morning to go do (she lives about 30 minutes away).  The answer was yes, in the guestroom and if I caught him sneaking over there would be hades to pay.  We told them we knew they were adults, we knew they were sleeping together already (don't ask...lol) but because SD was in the house, they needed to set an example.

Ha ha ha.....so seriously, I'm like this in general!  But keep throwing out the ideas....I'll take anything at this point that I could possibly use. 

[Ruth]

You have my vote of approval, Pooh, for what its worth!  So many parents just cave in these day, in favor of popularity or of staying one up on the ex-spouse.  all this comes back to bite you in time.  You did the right thing.

[Pooh]

Thanks Ruth.  I don't want it to sound like we've given up on her.  We haven't.  We've just exhausted our efforts to try to get her to think at this point and are left with just telling her she has choices but here's the consequences.  At this point, we both agree that we would be there to pick up the pieces, once.  We would drive 14 hours if she called us in danger or trouble to get her.

[Doe]

Pooh, all I can add is that I spent my time in NYC after college, straight out of the deep south. I lived in the east village where no one would come to visit me since the neighborhood was too rough.  I had lots of fun exploring the whole city and finding myself in places I shouldn't be.  I honestly think there must be guardian saints for clueless adventurous young adults because I didn't worry about anything and nothing really awful happened to me.

I get the part about the man, though.  Has he met your DH?  Maybe it's time.

[luise.volta]

P - You have gone way, way past any place that my patience (or lack thereof) would take me. There is a level of arrogance in some 18 year-olds that is beyond comprehension. And it's the closed-minded "Yeah...but" kind. I work with them on MomResponds.com.
You want to save her from herself and you are being blocked at every turn. I don't have any advise...just concern and compassion for all of you. Most of all for SD. She thinks she knows so much but she has devalued hersefl beyond belief. Sending love...

[Silver Spring]

I think Pam understood what I was trying to say, I wasn't trying to come up with a worst-case scenario, but if it sounds like she is definitely going after high school, she might at least need some direction in apartment hunting. Since it sounds like her mind is made up, NOT during spring break but AFTER graduation, maybe help her find a safe apartment? You can't protect her from ALL financial scams and a souring relationship, or being far away from home and broke, but you can make sure she has some level of protection when she does start this apartment hunting Deals that sound too good to be true usually are.

Apartment hunting with you guys may actually be a very sobering experience for her. I believe East Village is up and coming now, and apartments there are about 3,000/month. Even in areas less safe apartments are bound to be very expensive in comparison to other areas in the country.

I sell things all the time on Craigslist: no one comes to my house unless my husband is here. If either of us are going anywhere to pick up something (even something that says "Free, on the curb," we go together. I am not sure an 18 year old with her heart set on leaving would give herself enough protection in meeting up for a business deal on the internet.

Good luck, Pooh.

[Doe]

On another thread, we talked about how long it takes for some AC to grow up, be out on their own.  It sounds like your SD has a great urge to do that - be on her own, take care of herself, however messy the process is.  She's been pushing so hard on adults for a while and they've been pushing back so maybe all she knows how to do is push and defend herself. 

Not saying you are doing anything wrong or bad, Pooh!  I just keep getting the idea that it may be time to step aside and subtract the opposing forces that she's pushing against.   If she got some indifference about her plans from you and DH, maybe she would relax and you could start talking.  Maybe?  I'm not sure if I'm completely conveying what I have in mind, but this is my best attempt.

[Silver Spring]

I really like what you're saying, Doe. I don't think Pooh is doing a thing wrong either, but it does sound like Pooh's SD is prepared to do battle at every turn, whether her parents are up for it or not. She certainly sounds prepared to be defensive.

[luise.volta]

My take is it's not about apartment hunting...it's about her pretending it's about that when she wants to chase down the guy. She is being supported to the hilt in any other plan.